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Andyzhao123
05-23-2018, 10:31 PM
Hi! I'm a late beginner penholder in table tennis. I want to hear all of your tips and advice on the forehand topspin. Please feel free to post anything that can be helpful. Thanks!

zeio
05-24-2018, 05:04 AM
Please feel free to post anything that can be helpful. Thanks!
Switch to shakehand. Even Wang Hao has abandoned ship.

https://i.imgur.com/FiXTz8y.jpg

brokenball
05-24-2018, 06:18 AM
Shake hands vs c-pen is not a religious issue to me. What force or impulse can I generate that I can't with the other?

One of the most important things to learn is how to loop a push or back spin serve. The natural tendency is to rotate your upper arm around your shoulder. This results in the paddle going forward before going up resulting in the paddle moving in an arc. This is not good. Start with the paddle behind your knee. The swing should be in a plane. The attitude the paddle should change as little as possible during the time the ball can hit the paddle. If the paddle's attitude is always changing the ball will go to different places depending on whether you hit the ball a few milliseconds early or late. avoid reaching.

Find a robot and practicing hitting the ball and listen to the sound. Gradually close the paddle angle so you are brushing the ball more but you will need to swing faster. Use your legs and body to twist and provide extra speed. If you keep closing the paddle you will notice the sound changes since the ball is only stretching the top sheet of the rubber. The sound will be quieter. Your timing must be very good to do this because the effective area of the paddle is reduces as you close the paddle.

Get someone to watch the trajectory of the balls you hit. If you are looping well the observer should see the ball dive toward the table faster than normal. After the ball hits the table it should jump forward faster and lower than normal. When you achieve this you are truly looping not just putting top spin on the ball.

When playing I am not too concerned about the arc. High arcs will result in high bounces that will be attacked. I am also not to concerned about the ball skipping forward towards the opponent if the ball is moving quickly. Placement and speed are the key. The amount of top spin should be just enough to achieve the goal of placing the ball where you want as quickly as possible. The top spin is not a goal in itself.

yogi_bear
05-24-2018, 08:29 AM
A good way to start is brush the ball upwards when the ball isnstarting to go down. At least you will develop your brush and contact of the ball first.

suds79
05-24-2018, 01:37 PM
I'm a big proponent of observing something done well, then trying to go and emulate it vs written instruction.

Better to have your conscious mind turned off while performing your swing.

So this is the best advice I can give you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-hy7i0jyLk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG-QGQ9Aw38

Now go and do likewise. Simply give us your best Xu Xin impression. Not asking the quality of your shots to be on his level. Just asking you to the best of your ability, try to have your body copy what you see. Pay attention to the details.

ZhouZhekai
05-24-2018, 02:34 PM
Disclosure: I am not a pen hold player, but these are some observations i have made about the forehand stroke, and i think that they are transferable to pen hold, but take it with a grain of salt.
I am assuming you would want to play a Chinese technique given that you are pen hold with Skyline Rubbers. At first i would just say get a feel for the ball. That means do simple drives, and get used to the trajectory and consistency of the ball and the stroke. Once you feel comfortable try to do small things, such as applying enough pressure with your 3 fingers on your backhand so your stroke is more stable, and learn to guide the ball. Then you should start with the forehand topspin. Some key points:
1. Use waist, use waist use waist. As a Penhold player you will generate most power using your waist. This means that you should practice turning your waist back, and then forward when hitting the ball. They are tons of Youtube videos on this. This will also naturally lead to weight transfer which will allow you to add more power.
2. Stand deep. In the short term it might seem useless, and makes one less stable, However over the long term on gains better stability, and it makes i easier to generate power using the waist. For me this is a very important step.

songdavid98
05-24-2018, 06:47 PM
do you have any specific questions? Asking for something so broad is like asking for an entire library.

I happen to be a (lefty) penholder who used to use skyline 3 neo.

Andyzhao123
05-24-2018, 09:03 PM
do you have any specific questions? Asking for something so broad is like asking for an entire library.

I happen to be a (lefty) penholder who used to use skyline 3 neo.

Alrighty, here are some of the main questions I have:
-What should the start and end position be like, and what are the most important details?
-Where is the ideal timing when contacting the ball? (Location of the ball when contacting and where on the ball should I be contacting)
-What's the best way to improve consistency?
-How to be more confident when executing the stroke?

songdavid98
05-24-2018, 10:06 PM
Starting position depends on the spin of the ball and on the height of the ball. If the ball is of net height and backspin and long, try starting close to knee height and swing up to the ball. Don't swing too far back for this one or you won't get the right contact for spinning the ball.

Net height topspin long, you start higher and further back.

As for ending position, your racket should be at around head height and a little in front of your head, but that can change depending on how much you lean forwards. (Advanced note)There are exceptions to this, like when the ball is coming into your elbow. In that case, you can end at your opposite shoulder if there's a lot of topspin (or above the opposite shoulder if you really need to lift the ball). At the end of the day, the forehand loop is a stroke that is meant to have physical variations so that it can handle all situations.

This video should help
https://youtu.be/mKFTcOtF58E?t=31

**********

If you are standing on an analog clock and 12 o clock is in front of you, I'd say 2 or 10 o clock is the timing.
(Advanced note)This can change depending on if you really want some bigger angles.
As for where on the ball you want to contact, that depends on whether you want to lift it, or if you want to send it forward. Go up against the back of the ball if you want to lift it. Go forward on the top of the ball to send it forward.

**********

Inconsistency in practice can be caused by a lot of things, like technical problems. Make sure you fix those technical problems when you practice. When it comes to games, the number thing that causes inconsistency is a lack of observation and adjustment. You have to understand that each shot is not the same and that you will have to personally tailor each loop to each ball on the fly. You can't expect the shots you see in practice to be the same as those in a game everytime.

If you don't notice that a ball is lower than usual, or spinnier than usual, you will miss and you won't know why. So step one is to observe the ball the best you can and see everything about it.
The next step is to be able to adapt your stroke to the ball. If you do see that a ball is lower than usual, you will have to lift it a little more, so you will have to change your racket angle and go up a little more. If you see a ball isn't as long, you can't lift up as much as before or else your shot will go long, so you angle down and go forward to compensate. Maybe you see a ball that does not go your sweet spot of your swing, so you have to move your feet to get the ball and yourself in the perfect positions.

*************

If you want to be confident, you have to practice being confident. Sometimes, I like to pretend that I am the world champion, and I go for every amazing shot possible. I don't care if I miss (I understand that it is part of the learning process, and so should you). When I do this, I get to practice hitting hard and I get the feeling for it, which builds my confidence.
Naturally, when you get better and more consistent at the stroke, you will become more confident. So, I guess you can try to get better and more consistent, and then you can try my method of pretending to be the world champion.

*****

In the end, none of questions required the knowledge of specifically a penholder with skyline. Anyone here could have answered these questions. Just make sure your questions are specific, and those of us here will answer to the best of our ability.

Andyzhao123
05-25-2018, 01:41 AM
Starting position depends on the spin of the ball and on the height of the ball. If the ball is of net height and backspin and long, try starting close to knee height and swing up to the ball. Don't swing too far back for this one or you won't get the right contact for spinning the ball.

Net height topspin long, you start higher and further back.

As for ending position, your racket should be at around head height and a little in front of your head, but that can change depending on how much you lean forwards. (Advanced note)There are exceptions to this, like when the ball is coming into your elbow. In that case, you can end at your opposite shoulder if there's a lot of topspin (or above the opposite shoulder if you really need to lift the ball). At the end of the day, the forehand loop is a stroke that is meant to have physical variations so that it can handle all situations.

This video should help
https://youtu.be/mKFTcOtF58E?t=31

**********

If you are standing on an analog clock and 12 o clock is in front of you, I'd say 2 or 10 o clock is the timing.
(Advanced note)This can change depending on if you really want some bigger angles.
As for where on the ball you want to contact, that depends on whether you want to lift it, or if you want to send it forward. Go up against the back of the ball if you want to lift it. Go forward on the top of the ball to send it forward.

**********

Inconsistency in practice can be caused by a lot of things, like technical problems. Make sure you fix those technical problems when you practice. When it comes to games, the number thing that causes inconsistency is a lack of observation and adjustment. You have to understand that each shot is not the same and that you will have to personally tailor each loop to each ball on the fly. You can't expect the shots you see in practice to be the same as those in a game everytime.

If you don't notice that a ball is lower than usual, or spinnier than usual, you will miss and you won't know why. So step one is to observe the ball the best you can and see everything about it.
The next step is to be able to adapt your stroke to the ball. If you do see that a ball is lower than usual, you will have to lift it a little more, so you will have to change your racket angle and go up a little more. If you see a ball isn't as long, you can't lift up as much as before or else your shot will go long, so you angle down and go forward to compensate. Maybe you see a ball that does not go your sweet spot of your swing, so you have to move your feet to get the ball and yourself in the perfect positions.

*************

If you want to be confident, you have to practice being confident. Sometimes, I like to pretend that I am the world champion, and I go for every amazing shot possible. I don't care if I miss (I understand that it is part of the learning process, and so should you). When I do this, I get to practice hitting hard and I get the feeling for it, which builds my confidence.
Naturally, when you get better and more consistent at the stroke, you will become more confident. So, I guess you can try to get better and more consistent, and then you can try my method of pretending to be the world champion.

*****

In the end, none of questions required the knowledge of specifically a penholder with skyline. Anyone here could have answered these questions. Just make sure your questions are specific, and those of us here will answer to the best of our ability.

Thank you so much for your time writing this to inform me. I will keep these details in mind when playing and practicing. Thank you!

SFF_lib
05-25-2018, 08:20 PM
Very good info above. One more thing. To execute deadly topspin consistently, train your legs regularly. The quadriceps are critical for the stability of your body in attack position and the power of your topspin. With strong legs you will learn and improvea lot more quickly.

Do a lot of squats and put weight on yourself. Slowly increase the intensity. You will feel the difference I guaranty.

Just look at the legs of the pro.

Passionate about TT
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180525/c43c5cdba3cdc202ad91ce5326a2bf52.jpg

yogi_bear
05-26-2018, 02:50 PM
this is the video that I have done just today that teaches how to do forehand loop before doing multiballs fh vs underspin. you may be a penhold player but the principles are the same.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6diZVBQcIGw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://youtu.be/6diZVBQcIGw

FH Loop - pre-multiball stage
Teaching FH Loop or topspin is a challenge for beginners but a coach can find ways to lessen the difficulty as well as practice the key points of the stroke before a player can actually do multiballs. The objectives of this exercise are:
1. to make the trainee practice bending the knees at the beginning of the stroke as this is a challenge at this stage of development.
2. to emphasize the importance of bending the knees as this gives extra power when looping underspin. Also, the racket should be at least at the side of the right knee (if you are right-handed) at the beginning of the stroke when you are dipping your racket towards the floor.
3. to have the elbow should be relaxed and slightly extended as you turn towards the right twisting pivoting your torso.
4. to practice pivoting the torso at the same time shifting the weight of the body from your left foot to your right foot and back to neutral position after follow through of the stroke.
5. to enable the trainee to wait for the the ball before hitting or brushing it as the stroke's timing is challenging for beginners. This exercise will make teh trainee wait for the ball to come down because he can position himself before the ball goes towards the side of the body.
6. to enable trainee to practice brushing the ball thinly instead of hitting through the sponge. This is a key skill that needs to be developed by beginners since it enables a player to feel the ball by brushing it. Power is not emphasize on this exercise as power can be easily developed during multiball practice and matchplays. This is the reason why the ball is being hit or brushed upon at late or delayed timing instead of looping the ball on the rise or at the peak of the bounce.
7. to practice this at first 1-2 weeks before actually going to multiball stage. This is done in tandem with fh loop/topspin shadow drills before this exercise is done.

UpSideDownCarl
05-26-2018, 04:02 PM
To some extent, having video of your FH to show would help people know what info is most useful for you. Is there any way you can make a short video 15-30 seconds of your FH?

UpSideDownCarl
05-26-2018, 04:58 PM
this is the video that I have done just today that teaches how to do forehand loop before doing multiballs fh vs underspin. you may be a penhold player but the principles are the same.

<a href="https://youtu.be/6diZVBQcIGw" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/6diZVBQcIGw (https://youtu.be/6diZVBQcIGw)

Hey, Yogi, is that you in the video. Nice job. :) That is a good way to practice FH loop to get the fundamentals.

To practice self hitting FH loops I like letting the ball bounce on the table to get more reps faster:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBW4kePyrc

But I let the ball bounce 2x before hitting it when I self hit. In the BH video from your channel, the student may have better timing with 2 bounces instead of 1. But both work.

And being back behind the table allows you to work on a bigger loop than being on the table. So both have their place.

yogi_bear
05-26-2018, 05:13 PM
Yup it is me.

yogi_bear
05-26-2018, 05:15 PM
Your way of practicing also is a good way for the player to wait for the ball in which beginners sometimes rush to hit the ball. There are lots of ways to teach looping, one just need to be creative.

Andyzhao123
05-27-2018, 12:11 AM
Should I try to get a video of my forehand loop/topspin and have you guys help tweak it?

UpSideDownCarl
05-27-2018, 12:13 AM
Should I try to get a video of my forehand loop/topspin and have you guys help tweak it?

Yep. It doesn't need to be longer than 30-60 seconds. But you can still film as much as you like. Details about theory don't necessarily get at what you may be missing.

Also, seeing footage of yourself can really help you improve.

Andyzhao123
05-31-2018, 01:30 AM
Hi guys!

I'm sorry that I couldn't get a video earlier. It's been raining the past week (I use outdoor table), and EOC's are this week. Sorry for the lateness. I'll get the video out as soon as I can.

UpSideDownCarl
05-31-2018, 04:18 AM
Hi guys!

I'm sorry that I couldn't get a video earlier. It's been raining the past week (I use outdoor table), and EOC's are this week. Sorry for the lateness. I'll get the video out as soon as I can.

No worry. No rush. Only video when you can. In the end, the video will help your game even if you are the only one who sees it. :) But there are people who will be able to help you improve faster when we do see it.

maurice101
05-31-2018, 07:40 AM
I saw a video that instead of dropping the ball on the floor the coach drops it onto a low wood stool behind the table to learn the forehand loop.

yoass
05-31-2018, 08:11 AM
I saw a video that instead of dropping the ball on the floor the coach drops it onto a low wood stool behind the table to learn the forehand loop.

We use a low bench. Same thing. It works.

yogi_bear
05-31-2018, 07:07 PM
It works but the challenge with beginners is to bend the knees and twist their torso when looping so i think making them drop the ball is better. For peak timing then the one with the stool is better.

Andyzhao123
06-02-2018, 05:54 PM
Here we go. Just before the weather got too hot.

https://youtu.be/5igqMHIMirY

https://youtu.be/yYnsL_iHVb8

Andyzhao123
06-02-2018, 06:32 PM
Any advice, especially for consistency?

Der_Echte
06-03-2018, 08:42 AM
Generally, the advice for consistency is to go for less power. By the way, you are brave and persistent determined good to make vids like this and ask.

Looking at both of those vids, I do not see how you could go for less power and not be kissing the ball and tucking it in for the night. You were using 20-30 percent of power. That isn't bad in itself, one effective widely accepted approach to growing level is to start slow power, get the right biomechanics, and progressively up the power and frequency as you grow.

Looks to me like there is still a lot of pieces moving together on upper body, although you could tell a little arm snap. Your shots did not appear to have much spin, difficult to call it a loop. Gravity was helping you. Maybe we could tell a little better if you were hitting a meter off the table. You were impacting the ball a bit too far in front of the prime impact zone, or at least on the front edge of it. In a situation where you are using less power, or going for a cross corner shot, you might be able to get away with that.

Try showing us the same drill where you hit to all parts of the table... and also from different distances and with a more variety of power to the ball. This will give us more to work with to give you suggestions. I would also be curious to see how you handle looping a ball that has dropped below the table. In fact, this is a good way to force oneself to spin, as it is darned difficult to HIT a ball fast and land it when your impact is table level or below.

My only suggestion right now would be to allow the ball to come into your hitting zone a little deeper before impact, or move to the impact zone. Since this is a drill where you are pretty much stationary, I would say allow ball to come a little deeper into your zone.

Der_Echte
06-03-2018, 08:49 AM
To get spin and power, Kim Jung Hoon in his vids is ALWAYS telling a player to wait a little longer for the ball and should have a feeling of "grabbing" or "catching" the ball at impact. If one is staying loose on grip pressure (and the rest of the needed muscles) and firming it up RIGHT AT OR DURING IMPACT, one is achieving this.

Whenever KJH finally gets the player to start letting the ball come deeper into the zone and hit it like he is catching and shooting it... the play does what looks like a loopdrive with good spin and the ball lands deep safely.

Trust your command of the strike zone and be able to take advantage of the good leverage you have allowing the ball to come to the middle of the zone before impact.

maurice101
06-04-2018, 01:56 AM
I feel you are swinging in some strokes a bit too early (as previous expert poster Der_Echte (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?3194-Der_Echte) mentioned) and you have a little delay at the swing back position but not in others. I think you would get a better whip action if you did not have this stopping action when you go back too early. This occurs when you use a robot in training as you really know where the ball is going so there there is a tendency for most people using a robot to swing back too early. You could try waiting more for the ball before the backswing and then move the right hip forward faster and see if the quality of spin and power of the stroke improves. I am no expert though.

Andyzhao123
10-01-2018, 08:28 PM
To everyone who posted, thank you so much for the help and advice! Even though this is four months late...

I went to China and trained with a private coach for most of August last Summer, and I've improved a lot, especially with everyone's advice. I'm getting a Wally Rebounder return board that's arriving in the next couple days now, and I'll make a second set of videos as soon as I can to improve my forehand even more. Again, thanks to everyone!

Andyzhao123
10-03-2018, 11:16 PM
Alright. I set up my Wally Rebounder and recorded a few clips of my looping. The ball goes fairly high, so it's more like half topspin half smash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcPGeow6k4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao6xzIylrqg

Andyzhao123
10-04-2018, 12:41 AM
It seems like I need more power, but whenever I try to increase the speed, I don't seem to get enough spin for the rebounder to return it. Any help with that or anything else? Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Der_Echte
10-04-2018, 12:58 AM
You could open up the angle if you have less spin, so the ball bounces higher.

You have a very long swing and a lot of body rotation just to apply a 30-40% power shot, but you are very consistent, not a lot of people are gunna make more than 10 in a row on a rebounder, unless they really slow it down.

Andyzhao123
10-04-2018, 01:49 AM
You could open up the angle if you have less spin, so the ball bounces higher.

You have a very long swing and a lot of body rotation just to apply a 30-40% power shot, but you are very consistent, not a lot of people are gunna make more than 10 in a row on a rebounder, unless they really slow it down.

Thank you for the response! Is there a way to make it so that there is a lot of spin but also have lots of speed as well?

Der_Echte
10-04-2018, 04:39 AM
Sure, you would need to learn how to explode with the legs and hips and transfer that power to the ball with your whip.

You could also go for a looser grip and loose arm, and borrow a smaller explosion, they would give you more spin with a not so fast ball.

zeio
10-04-2018, 06:58 AM
I like the OP's shirt in his latest videos - Wolf Pack.

Shifu
10-04-2018, 07:26 AM
Try to use your waist/hip and arm simultaneously. right now your arm goes first and then the body follows. Try to tense your ABS when playing the shot and you will see that you will do it at the same time.

phorkyas
10-04-2018, 07:47 AM
Agree very much.

If you are aiming for more spin, maybe you can find a chopper or someone who gives you a lot of under spin, because then you'll need to open the racket angle, really brush the ball to lift it up high enough. That could give you the feel.
You could open up the angle if you have less spin, so the ball bounces higher.

You have a very long swing and a lot of body rotation just to apply a 30-40% power shot, but you are very consistent, not a lot of people are gunna make more than 10 in a row on a rebounder, unless they really slow it down.

Sent from my ZTE Grand S II LTE using Tapatalk

langel
10-04-2018, 10:08 AM
From your latest video I see that you have developed a good feel for the impact and you grab the ball better. Still you take the ball too early. Try to take it later at table level, add more power and position the board to return your balls deaper. Concentrate on faster swing acceleration and thinner brush. Anyway you are doing very well.

zeio
10-04-2018, 10:23 AM
One thing I notice is the OP is a toe-first walker. Studies have shown it's 10% less efficient than heel-first. That could have a long-term negative impact on your power generation in table tennis.

https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/why-we-walk-our-heels-instead-our-toes

They looked at the differences between those asked to walk normally and those asked to walk toe-first. They found that toe-first walkers moved slower and had to work 10 percent harder than those walking with a conventional stride, and that conventional walkers' limbs were, in essence, 15 centimeters longer than toe-first walkers.
...
When the researchers sped up the treadmill to look at the transition from walking to running, they also found that toe-first walkers switched to running at lower speeds than regular walkers, further showing that toe-first walking is less efficient for humans.

https://archive.unews.utah.edu/news_releases/the-cost-of-being-on-your-toes/

Carrier speculates that a heel-first foot posture “may be advantageous during fighting by increasing stability and applying more torque to the ground to twist, push and shove. And it increases agility in rapid turning maneuvers during aggressive encounters.”

langel
10-04-2018, 10:39 AM
One thing I notice is the OP is a toe-first walker. Studies have shown it's 10% less efficient than heel-first. That could have a long-term negative impact on your power generation in table tennis.



I agree with this - heel to toe makes weight transfer and swing more effective both for power and spin.

Loopadoop
10-04-2018, 11:26 AM
I agree with this - heel to toe makes weight transfer and swing more effective both for power and spin.

I personally think a person's step is quicker when on their toes.

phorkyas
10-04-2018, 01:28 PM
Thought that was also one of the first lessons in footwork. Just like a lower body position which is *not* efficient but makes your muscle burn, but lets you move faster... Maybe zeio was just pulling our legs, can't be serious.
I personally think a person's step is quicker when on their toes.

Sent from my ZTE Grand S II LTE using Tapatalk

langel
10-04-2018, 02:32 PM
Every stroke is a system of movements and what kind of movements one would engage in this system depends on the many particular factors defining the players' zone position and the incoming ball characteristics.
Every movement in the syatem has many different phases.
Footwork has different phases too and these phases can be divided to 2 main systems - position placement and stroke execution.
Position placement has its own phases, the execution of a stroke has its own movement phases and every different kind of stroke needs different movement with different phases.
Zone positioning movements engage fast toes dynamics.
Loop strokes mechanics need proper weight transfer and well timed swing, starting from the toe. But to execute it effectively you have to simulate the ending phase of a zone placement movement - heel encoring - and to continue with the stroke phases - heel to toe weight and swing.
If you look at some experienced or pro players videos you will see that they are always on that kind of movements, nevermind that they stay at the very same zone.

usualsuspect
10-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Shake hands vs c-pen is not a religious issue to me. What force or impulse can I generate that I can't with the other?

One of the most important things to learn is how to loop a push or back spin serve. The natural tendency is to rotate your upper arm around your shoulder. This results in the paddle going forward before going up resulting in the paddle moving in an arc. This is not good. Start with the paddle behind your knee. The swing should be in a plane. The attitude the paddle should change as little as possible during the time the ball can hit the paddle. If the paddle's attitude is always changing the ball will go to different places depending on whether you hit the ball a few milliseconds early or late. avoid reaching.

Find a robot and practicing hitting the ball and listen to the sound. Gradually close the paddle angle so you are brushing the ball more but you will need to swing faster. Use your legs and body to twist and provide extra speed. If you keep closing the paddle you will notice the sound changes since the ball is only stretching the top sheet of the rubber. The sound will be quieter. Your timing must be very good to do this because the effective area of the paddle is reduces as you close the paddle.

Get someone to watch the trajectory of the balls you hit. If you are looping well the observer should see the ball dive toward the table faster than normal. After the ball hits the table it should jump forward faster and lower than normal. When you achieve this you are truly looping not just putting top spin on the ball.

When playing I am not too concerned about the arc. High arcs will result in high bounces that will be attacked. I am also not to concerned about the ball skipping forward towards the opponent if the ball is moving quickly. Placement and speed are the key. The amount of top spin should be just enough to achieve the goal of placing the ball where you want as quickly as possible. The top spin is not a goal in itself.

Great explanation! Yours is truly a textbook example of fh attack.

Andyzhao123
10-04-2018, 08:13 PM
I like the OP's shirt in his latest videos - Wolf Pack.
Thanks! My sister goes to NC State University and got me that shirt.

Andyzhao123
10-04-2018, 08:18 PM
Okay, so I saw you guys' discussion on the heel/toe footwork. I'm still a bit confused about that. Is there a video or something to help me better understand?
Thanks!

zeio
10-04-2018, 08:18 PM
I just posted a new thread. Check the front page.

Simas
10-05-2018, 09:48 AM
From your latest video I see that you have developed a good feel for the impact and you grab the ball better. Still you take the ball too early. Try to take it later at table level, add more power and position the board to return your balls deaper. Concentrate on faster swing acceleration and thinner brush. Anyway you are doing very well.

And if you can't overcome the instinct to hit the ball at the highest point, there is a simple fix for that. Back of a by a foot length so that you can't reach it at the highest point and then you will be forced to hit the ball only there where you can reach it -about the table hight and then you will also be forced to do a more upward movement to lift the ball over the net..

Andyzhao123
10-19-2018, 09:38 PM
Thanks for all the help so far. Thanks to all of you...again!
I've practiced a bit more now, but I can't really hit the ball that low consistently (up to 4 hits), likely due to how I find difficulty "judging" the ball quickly (height, speed, trajectory). Any advice?

zeio
10-19-2018, 09:47 PM
Personally, I'd hit the ball just like how you do right now. Your stroke looks good. To get good spin, you need a higher swing speed, and that comes from the legs, hence my previous comment.

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2018, 09:53 PM
Yeah. The main thing is, the stroke is good, the habits are good. The more you practice, the better your feel for the stroke will improve.

Simas
10-25-2018, 10:18 AM
Thanks for all the help so far. Thanks to all of you...again!
I've practiced a bit more now, but I can't really hit the ball that low consistently (up to 4 hits), likely due to how I find difficulty "judging" the ball quickly (height, speed, trajectory). Any advice?


Yeah. The main thing is, the stroke is good, the habits are good. The more you practice, the better your feel for the stroke will improve.

exactly. by consciously practising over and over you will wire more info into the brain on the expected path of the ball and get a better judgement on the ball trajectory eery next time

Andyzhao123
10-28-2018, 10:50 PM
I'm back again! I tried to use a bit more power today, along with hitting a bit lower than I did before. Sooooooooooooooo... here's some footage:

https://youtu.be/uwTfGCC9kZE

The ending has more power than the beginning. Should I have more of an upwards technique or keep my current technique? Should I use more hip power? Are there any minor or major changes I should have?

I feel like I've improved a lot. Again, thank you all for helping so far!

Der_Echte
10-28-2018, 11:24 PM
To be fair, with a rebound board, you can only hit it so hard before the ball rebounds out too far.

These boards are great for practicing everything contributing to being consistent using the 30% power.

You are hitting it over 10 times in a row, that is good. There are a lot of little things that need to be done to be able to do ten reps in a row and a lot of these translate into a repeatable offensive stroke in a rally in a real match under pressure.

Things I would exhort any player doing a drill like this is to pay attention to balance, stance, control of strike zone, bio mechanic movement, power transfer, grip pressure control, recovery.

We are seeing you get enough of these right at 30%, we would need to see how you apply these in a more dynamic situation requiring more power.

For the purposes of this kind of exercise, you are doing quite well. I might not look as good as you if it is Der_Echte doing this drill. I really suck at repetitive low power drills. Coaches in Korea groaned at my lack of ability to even the simplest FH to FH drill they love on... but when they saw I could spin the ball heavy or for power in matches, they got over their headaches quickly enough.

I say that to put the drill in perspective and not over analyze it. That drill is a building block to establish a good foundation for your base FH to be repeatable, adaptable, dynamic, powerful or less when needed.

Der_Echte
10-28-2018, 11:28 PM
It is a whole new thing to use short hip or long hip explosion for the 70/80 and 90/100 percent power shots... a whole different deal. Ditto for the timing of acceleration of the parts for the whip and power, ditto for the firm up of grip right at impact... it is all a completely different thing.

Still, the basic foundations established by these kind of drills give you the position and leverage to be able to start doing the more powerful shots, so one shouldn't discount the kind of drill you are doing too much, nor should anyone call it everything.

dominus7
10-29-2018, 12:58 AM
I have some doubt, after you do those drillings, do you feel pain in your shoulder? I mean not less than 30 mins of practice.
I'm back again! I tried to use a bit more power today, along with hitting a bit lower than I did before. Sooooooooooooooo... here's some footage:

https://youtu.be/uwTfGCC9kZE

The ending has more power than the beginning. Should I have more of an upwards technique or keep my current technique? Should I use more hip power? Are there any minor or major changes I should have?

I feel like I've improved a lot. Again, thank you all for helping so far!

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

Andyzhao123
10-29-2018, 12:28 PM
I have some doubt, after you do those drillings, do you feel pain in your shoulder? I mean not less than 30 mins of practice.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

I’ve get tiredness, but I’ve never experienced shoulder pain after practicing. Maybe I’m not practicing long enough, or I just have good shoulders or something, I really don’t know.

Andyzhao123
10-29-2018, 02:47 PM
To be fair, with a rebound board, you can only hit it so hard before the ball rebounds out too far.

These boards are great for practicing everything contributing to being consistent using the 30% power.

You are hitting it over 10 times in a row, that is good. There are a lot of little things that need to be done to be able to do ten reps in a row and a lot of these translate into a repeatable offensive stroke in a rally in a real match under pressure.

Things I would exhort any player doing a drill like this is to pay attention to balance, stance, control of strike zone, bio mechanic movement, power transfer, grip pressure control, recovery.

We are seeing you get enough of these right at 30%, we would need to see how you apply these in a more dynamic situation requiring more power.

For the purposes of this kind of exercise, you are doing quite well. I might not look as good as you if it is Der_Echte doing this drill. I really suck at repetitive low power drills. Coaches in Korea groaned at my lack of ability to even the simplest FH to FH drill they love on... but when they saw I could spin the ball heavy or for power in matches, they got over their headaches quickly enough.

I say that to put the drill in perspective and not over analyze it. That drill is a building block to establish a good foundation for your base FH to be repeatable, adaptable, dynamic, powerful or less when needed.

Thank you so much for the response. As for how you mentioned hitting the ball at full power and speed, what do you recommend for me to do to practice hitting at full speed and power?

Avenger
10-29-2018, 04:08 PM
If you can find a hitting partner who can block for you, then you can hit at full power and speed with the added benefit of a more realistic ball coming back at you. I also use the same return board and find it quite useful in developing consistency in my strokes. You are very consistent with your strokes at a reduced power; it looks good. If you close the angle of the board more you can definitely hit harder with more speed and spin. That's going to be more challenging for sure...

Der_Echte
10-29-2018, 08:39 PM
Avenger answered well.

A return board wasn't designed for you to repeatedly hit at 70 to 80 percent power. You need live player for that.

You COULD try moving the return board further away from the end of the table and make the return board angle a bit more verticle... That might get the ball to come back, but at that distance, you would need nearly the same speed spin and depth of bounce to do even 5 in a row... a difficult task for the rebounder. Possible, but maybe not worth it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Takkyu_wa_inochi
10-29-2018, 11:23 PM
Buy a robot

Simas
11-01-2018, 10:27 AM
Buy a robot

a little bit off-topic, but I am more and more impressed with the stuff you can do with a return board. I've trained with a robot quite a lot in my previous clubs, but it won't gonna happen in my current. So I am thinking about campaigning to buy a return board instead :)

Lula
11-01-2018, 11:13 AM
I have a returnboard and it do work really well, but you need certain skills to get good play. I often miss first and lose the Point and that says alot.

When you loop forehand it is important to know that the spin comes from the forearm and wrist and the Power comes from the body. So you need to accelerate and snap with the arm to get spin, but at the same time when you move the arm back you want to move the waist back. You want to have bend legs and a Little forehand feet(left leg infront of the right if you are right handed). When you move the waist back with bend legs you will get a weight transfer from right to left leg. It is important to have forehand feet to be able to get the body with the shot.

I Think the most important thing to learn isspin so it is important to work on accelerating with the forearm and wrist.

For opening on backspin it is the same but faster accelerating, more bend legs and a upward motion instead of a forward motion.

Simas
11-01-2018, 12:28 PM
I have a returnboard and it do work really well, but you need certain skills to get good play. I often miss first and lose the Point and that says alot.

When you loop forehand it is important to know that the spin comes from the forearm and wrist and the Power comes from the body. So you need to accelerate and snap with the arm to get spin, but at the same time when you move the arm back you want to move the waist back. You want to have bend legs and a Little forehand feet(left leg infront of the right if you are right handed). When you move the waist back with bend legs you will get a weight transfer from right to left leg. It is important to have forehand feet to be able to get the body with the shot.

I Think the most important thing to learn isspin so it is important to work on accelerating with the forearm and wrist.

For opening on backspin it is the same but faster accelerating, more bend legs and a upward motion instead of a forward motion.

Risking to open a huge discussion here, but contrary to the BH topspin, you don't need a wrist to make a nice spiny FH topspin. The spin is imparted only by the swiping motion of your forehand. If adding a wrist to your forearm would give extra oomph, that's another question

Lula
11-01-2018, 12:45 PM
Risking to open a huge discussion here, but contrary to the BH topspin, you don't need a wrist to make a nice spiny FH topspin. The spin is imparted only by the swiping motion of your forehand. If adding a wrist to your forearm would give extra oomph, that's another question

Haha, discussion is good and i like when i get some feedback! And you are correct :) I was meaning spin in general and i agree that wrist is more important when playing backhand! I almost only use wrist when i play backhand but trying to use the forearm a Little more when i have time to get more Power :)

Andyzhao123
11-01-2018, 10:39 PM
Buy a robot
I'm a broke 14-year-old without a job or a way to earn money other than begging my parents... I do have an IPong V300 though

Der_Echte
11-02-2018, 08:57 AM
Haha, discussion is good and i like when i get some feedback! And you are correct :) I was meaning spin in general and i agree that wrist is more important when playing backhand! I almost only use wrist when i play backhand but trying to use the forearm a Little more when i have time to get more Power :)

I am a little different animal than the rest of you all.

On FH, to make an extra heavy topspin, I need a 30 degree movement of the wrist (on the plane where it is only possible for about 45 degrees movement). I get my best spin finishing that way. I can get real good spin using 20 degrees.

On BH, vs incoming topspin, I use only a little wrist off the bounce and get good spin. A step away from the table vs lighter topspin, I use much more to really whip the spin and sometimes pace depending on what I want to do.

The timing of the arm and wrist is critical to spin production. It is nothing if you did not efficiently start and transfer the kinetic energy along the way. I see many players tighten up the shoulder and lose all that energy created and try to recreate it with back of shoulder.

Lula
11-03-2018, 10:46 AM
I am a little different animal than the rest of you all.

On FH, to make an extra heavy topspin, I need a 30 degree movement of the wrist (on the plane where it is only possible for about 45 degrees movement). I get my best spin finishing that way. I can get real good spin using 20 degrees.

On BH, vs incoming topspin, I use only a little wrist off the bounce and get good spin. A step away from the table vs lighter topspin, I use much more to really whip the spin and sometimes pace depending on what I want to do.

The timing of the arm and wrist is critical to spin production. It is nothing if you did not efficiently start and transfer the kinetic energy along the way. I see many players tighten up the shoulder and lose all that energy created and try to recreate it with back of shoulder.

As long as it works for you :) I agree that the timing is important! Yepp, you should try to hold the racket very loose and relax the arm to be able to move it fast and generate spin. Also If you tense the arm, the body will not help the arm to move and you loose Power also.