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Omar_Pureco
07-20-2018, 04:38 AM
Hi

I've come across something that's giving me a hard time to figure out regarding the proper motion/weight transfer on the forehand loop.

All the posts/videos that I've come across mention that you should transfer your weight from right to left (right handed here), and that's how I practice when doing shadows, warm ups, etc. However, I've seen a lot of videos where the players "jump" and their hips actually move in the opposite direction, how come? Am I missing something or is it something that has to be done while picking up the pace? I'm actually confused, how should I practice my shadow drills?

Example of "textbook" technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsbezFVXePs

Example of "moving in the wrong direction" (go to the 3 minute mark for slow motion, easier to see examples): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHinDVOhfOw

Here's Samson Dubina "doing it wrong": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4cpdx1TYs

zeio
07-20-2018, 05:31 AM
1st and 2nd links are the same.

The hop in Dubina's video is part of the recovery, very common in quick rallies.

ZhouZhekai
07-20-2018, 06:58 AM
Personal Experience so take it with a grain of salt: Dont wory about it to much.
Understand the broad and general purposes(what is the purpose of the waist, when to hit the ball) on a simple level(and dont try to do exactly what pros do, everyone has a different technique). Then try to focus on the mere basics while practicing and dont wory about too much at the same time.
I have tried to change my technique about a dozen times in a relatively shot time period by micromanaging every single thing and i only gained more missed balls. Then i stopped caring too much, and suddenly my entire loop became consistent more powerfull and more natural, and my technique is better then ever.

bircham boi
07-20-2018, 07:00 AM
Example of "textbook" technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsbezFVXePs

Here's Samson Dubina "doing it wrong": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt4cpdx1TYs
Regardless of whether or not Dubina is "doing it wrong", who are you going to put your money on? FZD or some American guy?

Omar_Pureco
07-20-2018, 10:43 PM
I've fixed the 2nd link, It's Lily Zhang doing some fast multiball drills. Thanks for the note zeio.

I see where you're coming from Zhou, and lately I'm starting to feel that I'm overthinking the small details and not properly developing a best "personal" technique, as you say.

One thing that makes me wonder though, is the jump/hop caused by the fact that almost nobody's got FZD legs/power? And, is it as Zhou says, the way they developed their personal style?

JediJesseS
07-21-2018, 03:35 AM
I don't see their hips moving in the wrong direction, I think they are just using less of a full weight transfer because they are playing multiple balls instead of FZD playing a single pivot shot. Plus I'm sure FZD has better technique and can do much more fluid weight transfer anyway.

Here is FZD doing his quicker waist pivot / small hops. (At 3:16)


https://youtu.be/85NYudzlIg0?t=3m16s

ttmonster
07-21-2018, 03:46 AM
None of them are doing it wrong, you are seeing it wrong... FZD is doing it against under spin and single ball at a time... Lily is doing it super fast , I have seen lily in person , you are not even able to see her legs how are you making the conclusion its wrong ... she has very good technique and may is too fast for you to see what she is doing .... you think somebody is world number 53 and has a wrong/fundamentally different forehand weight transfer ? ... and samson dubina is also doing it right , he is a very good coach ... not sure what you see is different all of them have a waist snap and are transferring the weight from the right foot to the left , in case of the last two they are doing it fast so sometimes the legs come up + after every stroke there is a reset hop .. which you may be mistaking as "wrong weight transfer" .... since FZD is doing "single ball" drills you don't see him do that in this particular video .... does not make any of the wrong or different ..

Omar_Pureco
07-22-2018, 02:52 AM
Thank a lot for the video JediJesseS, I see it more clearly now, especially at around the 4 and 5 minute mark, that BH and FH drill really helped. I was being totally confused by the small hop, and as you said, the weight transfer still happens, it's just that it's too fast for me too see it properly. Thank a lot.

ttmonster, that's why I always wrote "wrong". I'l try to explain myself better next time.

Baal
07-23-2018, 11:31 AM
If you try to think about stuff like that you will be a muscle-confused mess. It is anti-Zen. If you do really fast multiball your body will figure out the most efficient way to move (for you) without your thinking about it.

Tinykin
07-23-2018, 02:26 PM
The 'hop' is the the TT version of the split step.
Although used a lot in TT, I don't see much coaching information on it.
However, google split step for tennis, squash even diving for guidance.

Baal
07-23-2018, 05:18 PM
I can say this. If you can watch Lily closely and try to move as much like she does as you possibly can, you won't be going wrong. Her footwork is perfect IMHO and really a joy to watch. It is not as easy as she makes it look. You are not going to succeed if you are carrying much extra weight for example. The two-two drill is a good starting point. Two to the FH, two to the BH.

The little hop is less obvious in Lily's stroke than Samson Dubina's because her power to weight ratio in her legs and core is really high (as with a lot of really good women players).

Bardock
08-05-2018, 11:30 PM
I'm like a medium level player but I went through the same dilemma so i'll just advise you and you can take it w/ a grain of salt. If I think too much of using legs and hips and weight transfer in my strokes the quality goes down because its not natural and in the speed of a match you can't be going textbook in your mind. What I do is stay mindful of weight transfer and using lower body which gives me good power but also constituency because when a ball is coming to me really fast i'm not having a brain freeze about weight transfer. You use what you get pretty much you don't have to be perfect the power boost will be their.

And as for hopping that is a technique that I have picked up from chinese tutorial videos and I sometimes naturally do it. It just gives you extra power like when you want to pick a ball up and the little hop also imparts a pretty good power on your stroke but you want to keep it minimal your not jumping really high but a controlled jump. You can watch Fan Zhendong he uses this a lot. Also another tip I seen a coach say is doing a little hop right before returning a serve it gives you extra power in your body so you can do a short serve without using your arm too much because your body is much more stable in controlling a short serve.

Loopadoop
08-06-2018, 12:46 AM
I personally think Lily could be even better with a less wider opening stance.

UpSideDownCarl
08-06-2018, 02:07 AM
Yeah, if you watch all of them, the hips pop on the contact with the ball and if the hips rotate and move forward, they have to reset and move back for the next shot. So you were probably seeing the reset and not realizing it was not happening during contact. And the reason you see the reset more on the faster ball feed is the player has to reset faster.

And in the FZD video, he resets and moves back to the original position so he has to track and move to the ball placement to take the next shot. This is also why that drill is being done slowly. The coach is adding the time for FZD to get back to a neutral position and away from where the ball will be so he has to move to the next ball. So some of his reset can happen while he moves back to the starting position.

If you watch FZD's reset closely, it is in two parts. 1) his hips recoil part way directly after followthrough. 2) the rest of the hip reset happens as he moves his feet to the original position.