Is trainerbot a scam ? Does anybody here now them ?

Beep-Beep · Aug 27, 2018

Hi.

I will start by saying that i have absolute no proof or knowledge of any legally wrongdoing by anyone related to trainerbot!

Here is my concern:
I invested in trainerbot for a LONG time ago. Yesterday they postponed the shipment agaiin!! This time until november.

I am almost 100% sure that they will not deliver in november; since it has been the same procedure from day one.

They are silent and unrespinsive uptil their planned shipping-date, and then they release an update one or to days before planned shipment with a very long, detailed and well produced "production update" were the change of delivery-day is at the buttom - of this very very long - and very professionally made, update. This has been going on for far over a year now.

Every time they talk about some new crazy problem with some technical stuff or some sub-deliver-contractor that has made a mistak; and that they are now SUPER-DUPER optimistic, and bla bla bla; and that they will deliver on this new date; usually 3 month from now.

Meanwhile new backers are signing up; not many now; but still maybe 6-7 pr. month; each paying $479 which gives them almost $3000/month.

Not a lot of money; but at this point they have raised $258,898 on kickstarter (can no loonger sign up there) and $438,834 on indiegogo (where the funding is moved to, when period on kickstarter expired, last year).

Thats is a total of: $697,732 + app. $3000 pr. month gooing forward. That is a lot of money!!

So, i am getting the creapy feeling that this might be a total scam; and that the only thing they are producing are the flashy videos update; to keep generating this income.

I know it seems silly and paranoid; but i just can't shake the feeling.

Again, i am not accusing anyone AND i have NO proof or knowledge of any kind - BUT i only see 3 possible explainations of their behaviour so far.

1. The are for real; have had a lot of bad luck/underestimated the project; and are now working day and night on producing and shipping; and it is realistic.

2. They had the best intentions from they start; but somewere down the line they realized they couldn't do it; but then they were in to deep. Now they are either milking it (new backers) for own profit or to desperately pay of their creditors.

3. Extremly well planned scam from the start.

Therefore, it would easy my mind tremendously, if a (preferrably) well known poster here, new something about the guys behind trainerbot; and could share some thoughts on it.

boffin5 · Aug 27, 2018

trainerbot

I am probably one of the first people to put in an order. What is frustrating is that they keep posting videos of people happily using Trainerbots to practice, so they obviously made some prototypes. However, the last message of explanation referred to a small part feature with insufficient thickness, so if things have gotten to that kind of detail level, I have high hopes that they will deliver in November. 2019, that is.

vvk1 · Aug 27, 2018

What is a trainerbot?

suds79 · Aug 27, 2018

This is one of the risks one takes on with any kickstarter project. That it'll never happen and you're out your money.

Lesson to be learned? Best to just wait for products to release fully and then make your purchase if you want it. Let someone else do the beta testing... if it even gets that far.

Beep-Beep · Aug 27, 2018

boffin5 said:
I am probably one of the first people to put in an order. What is frustrating is that they keep posting videos of people happily using Trainerbots to practice, so they obviously made some prototypes. However, the last message of explanation referred to a small part feature with insufficient thickness, so if things have gotten to that kind of detail level, I have high hopes that they will deliver in November. 2019, that is.

So you are not the least suspicious of the whole thing ?

boffin5 · Aug 28, 2018

trainerbot hopes

Trainerbot is a fully programmable robot that you program with a cellphone. As far as I know, there's nothing like it on the market, but the technology is all there, so somebody just has to do it.
Actually, I meant to say 'November 2018.'
What makes me hopeful is that they have continuously sent status reports every 3 months for over a year now. It is an evolving story that seems plausible. Of course, they could just be doing it to squeeze a flow of money from the unsuspecting. The next stated ship date is this November; if they don't make it, they will pretty well have run out of excuses, and I guess I can kiss my money zai jian (goodbye).

Beep-Beep · Aug 28, 2018

boffin5 said:
Trainerbot is a fully programmable robot that you program with a cellphone. As far as I know, there's nothing like it on the market, but the technology is all there, so somebody just has to do it.
Actually, I meant to say 'November 2018.'
What makes me hopeful is that they have continuously sent status reports every 3 months for over a year now. It is an evolving story that seems plausible. Of course, they could just be doing it to squeeze a flow of money from the unsuspecting. The next stated ship date is this November; if they don't make it, they will pretty well have run out of excuses, and I guess I can kiss my money zai jian (goodbye).

Well, i guess more optimistic than me

- i hope you are right.
I feel they have run out of excuses by now, and that i can kiss my money goodbye..

suds79 · Aug 29, 2018

boffin5 said:
Trainerbot is a fully programmable robot that you program with a cellphone. As far as I know, there's nothing like it on the market, but the technology is all there, so somebody just has to do it.

https://www.tennirobo.com/

The designer is active on the forums here. You control it with your phone. He has prototypes out. He's still improving it.

I like that you supply your own bucket & tripod. i already have a net. Makes sense to keep shipping down. I just need the robot.

He's using brushless motors, which I know from RC are vastly superior to brushed motors in heat, longevity & performance/power. Just trust me it's a large improvement.

Most importantly, it's multiple wheels. So you can practice vs no-spin. All one wheel design robots can't shoot no-spin.

IMO this is the one to get once he's finished.

Brs · Aug 29, 2018

The tennirobo looks interesting if the price is low enough. I didn't see in the videos or faqs if it can serve a legal serve on both sides. I don't see why it couldn't, but would be nice to see it on youtube anyway.

Beep-Beep · Aug 29, 2018

Sounds very good, i am buying that when it hits the market - no more crowdfunding for me

langel · Aug 29, 2018

Brs said:
The tennirobo looks interesting if the price is low enough. I didn't see in the videos or faqs if it can serve a legal serve on both sides. I don't see why it couldn't, but would be nice to see it on youtube anyway.

Garrison · Aug 29, 2018

I actually haven't heard of this before, looks interesting. I guess it's better to make it right than ship out some unfinished product so don't lose your hope!

There have been scams before with faked prototypes though (the battery free toothbrush for example). The thing doesn't seem to hold a lot of balls though, they should really make some bucket that you can put on top of it

CroneOne · Aug 29, 2018

I've backed this years ago too. It feels to me like this is like a weekend project for them. Sort of work on it
part time while they do their day jobs. There's no way that 2 people working full time on that
would take years to get it done. It should have been done ages ago. The delays are always due
to malfunctions then 3-4 months to fix the malfunctions.

That said, they do have an Android app on Google play that was released recently if that is any
consolation.

Beep-Beep said:
Well, i guess more optimistic than me - i hope you are right.
I feel they have run out of excuses by now, and that i can kiss my money goodbye..

Beep-Beep · Aug 29, 2018

CroneOne said:
I've backed this years ago too. It feels to me like this is like a weekend project for them. Sort of work on it
part time while they do their day jobs. There's no way that 2 people working full time on that
would take years to get it done. It should have been done ages ago. The delays are always due
to malfunctions then 3-4 months to fix the malfunctions.

That said, they do have an Android app on Google play that was released recently if that is any
consolation.

I dunno; almost $700.000; an app does not make me much more calm.

I just dont get it...

If they are sincere; why not get it out earlier ?

If it is half as good as they say; it would be the standard robot for a vast majority of table-tennis robot users; due to price and usability.

Guess it my own fault: If it seems to goog to be true; it probably is

Baal · Aug 30, 2018

I have never even once received a product that I helped to crowd fund (four times now) and I won't ever do it again. Could just be my bad luck or bad taste in projects, but it all seemed cool at the time. I am not out too much money on this, but still.

Simas · Sep 8, 2018

boffin5 said:
I am probably one of the first people to put in an order. What is frustrating is that they keep posting videos of people happily using Trainerbots to practice, so they obviously made some prototypes. However, the last message of explanation referred to a small part feature with insufficient thickness, so if things have gotten to that kind of detail level, I have high hopes that they will deliver in November. 2019, that is.

Yes, there is a lot of risk with crowdfunding. And there are a lot of scams there too. Like some very obvious ones. For ex people building some utopian devices, like making water from air with the aparatus of the size of drinking water bottle and powered by solar power, some underwater breathing gills and so on... kickstarter before approving the campaign checks them... so i don't know what are they thinking sometimes. I am not sure, but if my memory serves me right, 1 0f 10 campaigns fail to deliver at all, especially more complicated ones -engineering, electronics.. And creators are more likely to deliver more creative (music, film.. ect..) projects. So kickstarter is trying to have more of these.

In this case, I'd say if the robot makers are responding and updating, so it's not a scam, cause if it was, you wouldn't be hearing from them after raising this amount of $ . I think it's more of a kind it "turned out so much more complicated then we thought" and then a lot of manufacturing, supply chain issues. 2/3 campaigns of such type are late. So it's an unfortunate but common part of crowdfunding process... Anyways, backers please update how it's advancing (or not..)

Baal said:
I have never even once received a product that I helped to crowd fund (four times now) and I won't ever do it again. Could just be my bad luck or bad taste in projects, but it all seemed cool at the time. I am not out too much money on this, but still.

Interesting. What did you back? I've backed one (watch) and got it without any issues..

CroneOne · Sep 8, 2018

I don't think it's a scam either. All I question is why delays are so heavy. These guys are about precision though for sure. Some of the other cheap robots have gone through revisions due to performance failures. I think that they want to avoid this at all costs. This robot has it all, which is frustrating in the never ending wait for it. It's why I'm shopping for another robot with the same features but can't find one. Even the Amicus Prime can't be moved around the table, which limits it to all shots coming from the center of the table.

FastPong · Mar 4, 2020

The problem with kick starter or indiegogo is that you must pay a lots of money in order to run a single campaign and there are too much of reduction at the end of raising money so basically there is not much money leave for you in order to make a proper product in case you are a startup company. In fact I know they have spend alots of money on PR and ad as well as video and also the platform itself will suck off around 10% of all money that gather
To sum up their expenses:
1: Jellop company for advertising that you have to pay them for ad (around 15K to 30K as well as they gonna charge you around 15% to 30% of all you gathered money. https://jellop.com/?utm_source=trainerbot
2: Video start from 10K they did it with https://launchlightfilms.com/
3. Crowdfunding platform 10% to 15%.
3. PR they used Proper Propaganda which i dont know how much they charge but they are not cheap for sure.
4.20% to 30% discount for early adapter

So basically there is not much money will leave for startup at the end of the campaign and startup should use the platform to show their product reliability in order to receive more investment and if thats not the case then you have to make the product very very cheap and to do so you need a lots of experience which I am wondering how come Hax couldn't do anything for them. So if you are helping an startup who cannot raise money after the crowdfunding campaign or they are not marketing company to reduce their expenses then that's a very low possibility they can deliver a working product.

FastPong · Mar 4, 2020

The problem with kick starter or indiegogo is that you must pay a lots of money in order to run a single campaign and there are too much of reduction at the end of raising money so basically there is not much money leave for you in order to make a proper product in case you are a startup company. In fact I know they have spend alots of money on PR and ad as well as video and also the platform itself will suck off around 10% of all money that gather
To sum up their expenses:
1: Jellop company for advertising that you have to pay them for ad (around 15K to 30K as well as they gonna charge you around 15% to 30% of all you gathered money. https://jellop.com/?utm_source=trainerbot
2: Video start from 10K they did it with https://launchlightfilms.com/
3. Crowdfunding platform 10% to 15%.
3. PR they used Proper Propaganda which i dont know how much they charge but they are not cheap for sure.
4.20% to 30% discount for early adapter

So basically there is not much money will leave for startup at the end of the campaign and startup should use the platform to show their product reliability in order to receive more investment and if thats not the case then you have to make the product very very cheap and to do so you need a lots of experience which I am wondering how come Hax couldn't do anything for them. So if you are helping an startup who cannot raise money after the crowdfunding campaign or they are not marketing company to reduce their expenses then that's a very low possibility they can deliver a working product.

Simas · Mar 7, 2020

FastPong said:
The problem with kick starter or indiegogo is that you must pay a lots of money in order to run a single campaign and there are too much of reduction at the end of raising money so basically there is not much money leave for you in order to make a proper product in case you are a startup company. In fact I know they have spend alots of money on PR and ad as well as video and also the platform itself will suck off around 10% of all money that gather
To sum up their expenses:
1: Jellop company for advertising that you have to pay them for ad (around 15K to 30K as well as they gonna charge you around 15% to 30% of all you gathered money. https://jellop.com/?utm_source=trainerbot
2: Video start from 10K they did it with https://launchlightfilms.com/
3. Crowdfunding platform 10% to 15%.
3. PR they used Proper Propaganda which i dont know how much they charge but they are not cheap for sure.
4.20% to 30% discount for early adapter

So basically there is not much money will leave for startup at the end of the campaign and startup should use the platform to show their product reliability in order to receive more investment and if thats not the case then you have to make the product very very cheap and to do so you need a lots of experience which I am wondering how come Hax couldn't do anything for them. So if you are helping an startup who cannot raise money after the crowdfunding campaign or they are not marketing company to reduce their expenses then that's a very low possibility they can deliver a working product.

no, in general it's not the money problem.

For Kickstarter/ indiegogo you pay ~5% +3% for payments processing. For that you get platform, exposure and it's users, payment processing.

Everything else has nothing to do with crowdfunding. It's just expenses which businesses incur regardless if they are using crowdfunding or not. And if they chose them. You can do marketing and PR yourself, use guerrilla strategies, social networks. You can make video yourself.

Main reason why it fails, is that, crowdfunders underestimate the know- how and money they will need to develop and produce the product (because hardware product development is very hard (I am not talking about wallets here)), but that's R&D expenses, not marketing & sales and crowdfunding

Also supporters put money into products that are destined to fail because the tech they are claiming to use is simply not there, or sometimes simply contradict the laws of physics and then they are very unhappy

.Like head bands that improve your mood, devices that will solve water problem for Africa by making water out of thin air (a.k.a as dehumidifiers), solar panel roads and so on...

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