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View Full Version : [Answers for All] EP 95: Weight on the Forefoot? You've Been Scammed!



zeio
10-04-2018, 07:06 PM
https://youtu.be/yIvqQw34l1s

Video subbed in response to the thread in which I argue being toe-first negatively affects the swing (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?17827-Tips-for-forehand-topspin-loop&p=245231&viewfull=1#post245231).

To walk the walk:

https://i.imgur.com/pLa2agQ.gif

Hamasaki_Fanz
10-04-2018, 07:24 PM
This is gold, thanks for subbing Zeio

Andyzhao123
10-04-2018, 07:58 PM
Very informative. Thank you!

yogi_bear
10-04-2018, 08:11 PM
Hmm, i will not agree with it fully since footwork with a feet fully planted on the floor will also affect your movement.. probably some weight on the heel like 80% forefoot and 20% heel.

langel
10-04-2018, 08:37 PM
Yes, but the discussion was not about planting the heel, but the proper execution of the positioning and stroke phases. Both videos of zeio ilustrate some good aspects in that concern. Of course the exact mechanics of ancoring, weight transfer, swing speed and amplitude, will depend on particular factors as footwork to reach the zone, desired strength and geometry of the return, the characteristics of the incoming ball, etc.

maurice101
10-04-2018, 11:37 PM
Zeio, much thanks for a great video. How this this approach compliment or differ from the footwork method on the Chinese footwork video? When I do the chinese approach this does help me be much faster to get to the next ball??? Or do you loose power moving both feet during the stroke?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9ThmrBNFY&t=63s

zeio
10-05-2018, 04:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i-h_d8QGmg

Another one "Shifu" Guo Yunpeng did on standing on the balls of the feet.

langel
10-05-2018, 04:47 PM
Yes, zeio, and to the general advice "don't do unnecessary movements" I would add "unless those movements are necessary".
If you look at FZD, for example, you will notice very different interpretations, depending on the actual situation.
But generally all of the above is a good base for a proper training, interpretations should come with the experience.

zeio
10-06-2018, 08:54 AM
Another one by Ma Kaixuan, former member of the Beijing team, coached the US in the 90s, writer and consultant for magazine Table Tennis World, and table tennis portal Guoqiuhui.


https://youtu.be/13opVdqHvGc

zeio
10-06-2018, 11:31 AM
Below is Fan Xiangdong's stance, former Beijing team member, former Li Sun's assistant, used to coach in Germany, now personal coach in China, translating the gist only:

http://chuansong.me/n/1852152752428

重心移动时,后脚跟到底起什么作用?-国球汇
Do the heels contribute when the center-of-gravity(COG) moves?

拉球时后脚跟是不是必须抬起来?抬多高?这没有硬性的规定,你只要把重心落在弯曲的膝盖上,感觉在重心移动时,两只脚的前脚掌在吃劲儿,收腹,上半身微微向前倾,屁股撅起来一点,你的重心就已经很好了。
When the COG moves, both forefeet should have traction, with the tummy in, upper body slightly forward, buttocks raised a little, then your COG is very good.

在跑动中和拉球时能保持这样就行了,至于是不是脚后跟抬起来了,不要去想它,你说的脚踩不实在就是因为你太追求脚后跟的抬起,使你的身体都无法自控了,那还谈什么快速移动,连续做重心的交换呢?
Don't think about the heels, otherwise you risk losing control of the body

而且你自己去体会,在你发力之前做拉手时的向后的重心移动时你的重心是落在两只的全脚掌上的,而不会是前脚掌上的,发力之前的后坐力从哪来?当然是两只脚要踩实了地面,才会有的,而我们要是只是脚尖在地上蹬能产生多少反弹的力量?
During the backswing when you loop, where your weight shifts backward, your weight is placed on the entire feet, rather than just the forefeet

...不需要刻意去再做改动,也不要去看录像去学习某个专业运动员的拉球动作,因为个人的身体条件不同,需要的腿部力量不同,也可以说我们业余选手需要的发力,蹬地的动作是无法和专业运动员相比较的。
Don't simply mimic how the pros loop. It's different for everyone.

所以一定自己找到自己的发力机制,才是你身体需要的,也是你的乒乓球技术所需要的。
Find your own way to generate force. The one that fits your body and technique.

zeio
10-06-2018, 12:20 PM
Hmm, i will not agree with it fully since footwork with a feet fully planted on the floor will also affect your movement.. probably some weight on the heel like 80% forefoot and 20% heel.

Like langel points out, it's not about planting the heels. Rather, it's about the common notion of "always standing on the balls of the feet" found in Chinese and English guides. There are tons of them and many beginners are confused and hence misled because of that.

My point of contention is that the weight constantly shifts between the toes and heels, depending on the scenario. It doesn't always start from and is not on the forefeet all the time.

zeio
10-06-2018, 12:37 PM
Zeio, much thanks for a great video. How this this approach compliment or differ from the footwork method on the Chinese footwork video? When I do the chinese approach this does help me be much faster to get to the next ball??? Or do you loose power moving both feet during the stroke?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9ThmrBNFY&t=63s

No, it doesn't complement or differ from the video you linked. It's a clarification on what is really meant by "standing on the balls of the feet". If you notice in the slow-mo, the demo player shifts between the toes and heels when moving and when executing the strokes. It's not always on the balls of the feet.

Lightzy
10-06-2018, 10:36 PM
Doesn't make sense to me at all.

First of all he does put weight on the front foot in the examples he gives. He even stamps it down with the weight of the body.

Secondly putting your weight on the front foot is good almost always because it's the only way to move backwards fast, which is the most difficult movement, and also allows you quick movement to the forehand side, which is useful because usually you're standing around the backhand side.
You don't get caught flat-footed if you got a bit of lean into the front foot.

langel
10-06-2018, 11:36 PM
Chapter 24

"The movement is accomplished in six stages
and the seventh brings return.....
Change returns success
going and comming without error..."

Fu, complemented by I Ching and Wu Wang

I've said many times, that any movement is a sequence of phases, not a single snapshot.

hillwalker
10-07-2018, 02:09 AM
A useful concept I have from snow skiing, is to focus not on "weight forward" but "spirit forward".

This is a general philosophy for sports, but I feel applies here. Many people will lean or stagger backwards on their heels when the tempo gets too fast and they loose control...tell them to lean forward, and they will instead overcompensate and stagger forward on tip toe. But the helpful idea is to be balanced, not forward or backwards, but maintaining active/forward attitude. Push the tempo, don't let the tempo push you, initiate instead of reacting. This can help a good position come more naturally.

zeio
10-07-2018, 05:32 AM
Doesn't make sense to me at all.

First of all he does put weight on the front foot in the examples he gives. He even stamps it down with the weight of the body.

Secondly putting your weight on the front foot is good almost always because it's the only way to move backwards fast, which is the most difficult movement, and also allows you quick movement to the forehand side, which is useful because usually you're standing around the backhand side.
You don't get caught flat-footed if you got a bit of lean into the front foot.
I think you're talking about 2 things here. Front foot is not the same as forefoot.

In this super slow-mo of ML's forehand loop, it's clearly seen he spreads his weight over the entire feet when lowering during the backswing, going from heel to toe on the right foot and toe to heel on the left foot, then the lateral arch of the right foot and medial arch of the left foot. In the forward swing, he pushes off the right foot from heel to toe and from the lateral arch to the medial arch. In the follow-through, he brakes with the left foot from toe to heel and from the medial arch to the lateral arch. This is what weight transfer really means during stroke execution, often reduced to "shift your weight from right to left."


https://youtu.be/QHh2eVhFukc

https://cdn1.teachmeseries.com/tmanatomy/wp-content/uploads/20180318165236/Overview-of-the-Arches-of-the-Foot-713x1024.png

In this clip of Hirano, she does the exact same thing during the forehand loop. Before she goes into stroke execution, there's a position adjustment after the serve, where she pushes off the forefeet, and then pushes off again for the step-around.


https://youtu.be/pQQ6aEtwecw

Lightzy
10-07-2018, 11:39 AM
Ah yeah I guess I didn't make the distinction between forefoot and front foot