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judah000
12-23-2011, 06:32 AM
Hey guys, just wanted to know what kind of spin is ma long doing in this video.?This spin is quite new to me......So do you know what spin is he producing?
?
here is the link :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0nB4oKC09w

azlan
12-23-2011, 07:39 AM
Shame there were no Tomahawk and Ma Lin serves.,but nevertheless a great collection of super slo mo serves. Thanx buddy!!

Bollforte94
12-23-2011, 09:58 AM
If you mean the first service: It is Sidespin with Backspin. At the end of his movement is a fake motion!

azlan
12-23-2011, 10:06 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention..the Ma Long serve was the side under spin. A lot of the pros use it, but they varies in the follow up.

poltery
12-23-2011, 10:13 AM
wow i posted this 4 months ago....
ma long's serve is really beautiful...
it seems to me that ma's serve is a modified chen qi serve...

judah000
12-23-2011, 10:29 AM
If you mean the first service: It is Sidespin with Backspin. At the end of his movement is a fake motion!
all I thought it was a sidespin with topspin.......Thank you very much... waiting for your next ma long tribute :D

calcutta75
12-23-2011, 02:13 PM
yes...top-spin not underspin.

UpSideDownCarl
12-23-2011, 04:01 PM
It is hard to tell. He pulls up. It could be topspin with the sidespin. But he comes from under. It could be underspin. It bounces like it is topspin though. Still, the pros are good because they can disguise those things. The idea with that service motion is that you can produce pure underspin, underspin with sidespin, pure sidespin, sidespin with topspin and pure topspin with what looks like the same motion. There is definitely sidespin on that serve because you can see the ball curve towards the backhand side. But it is well disguised whether that is topspin or underspin.

yurybarquero
12-23-2011, 05:30 PM
it is topspin with sidespin... and this one is not a tricky serve. I have seen some serves where I would swear that it is backspin and it comes with topspin and vice versa...
I will leave a video here where it shows some part of the final in a Tournament here in Nicaragua and the Guy in blue shirt has really good serves and I also would like to know what you think of these 2 players


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0Fv95oDVE

ttmonster
12-23-2011, 06:15 PM
It looks like side top ... the thing is it has insane amount of side spin and either a little top or a little under that is how they diguise it ... but this one looks like side top

TTInsanely
12-23-2011, 06:46 PM
I personally use side- backspin serves therefore i can assure that the serve of ma long is a side-backspin serve! :)

UpSideDownCarl
12-23-2011, 08:31 PM
it is topspin with sidespin... and this one is not a tricky serve. I have seen some serves where I would swear that it is backspin and it comes with topspin and vice versa...
I will leave a video here where it shows some part of the final in a Tournament here in Nicaragua and the Guy in blue shirt has really good serves and I also would like to know what you think of these 2 players


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0Fv95oDVE

The players look decent. The video quality is not good. Most of the serves look like they are long. If they were slow motion close-ups like the ones in the video for this thread we could probably tell what they are. But these guys look like they can play.

yurybarquero
12-23-2011, 08:33 PM
I use that serve as well and I can do both spins with the same movements it just depends at what time of the movement you brush the ball and was able to tell that he brushed it at the time the could apply the topspin with sidespin...

yurybarquero
12-23-2011, 08:40 PM
They are really good and it is just that they are not in top shape but they trained for like about a year in China when they were young. Their game does not look that awesome because they stay close to the table but when you get to play against them you tell how good they are...
and the video unfortunately was taken with a camera not a video camera that is the reason of the poor resolution...

YosuaYosan
12-23-2011, 08:46 PM
Pendulum topspin judging from the ball rotation.

Mr. RicharD
12-23-2011, 08:48 PM
The ball has side and top spin, but it is not a side top spin service. It is a corkscrew service. Go to the video and put your mouse on 0:18 and keep click on it after the service has been done. You'll see that he pulls up to the side of the ball which means on the first bounce it looks like underspin, but on the second bounce it corks into side and topspin.

A cork screw service is very handy against impatient players. Spin on a ball is always shown by it's bounce and trajectory. You can see the side with it's arc, but you can tell if it is top, under or dead by it's bounce. A cork screw ball plays on our tendencies to be impatient if we only look at the first bounce and go in for a bh loop or a push we'll misread the spin and hit long or push high. The second bounce is always the most important to watch because it either confirms the guess of service or recalculates for less error.

Hope this helps all.

Anders
12-23-2011, 08:51 PM
In Norway, this motion is simply called "feilskru" that in direct translate means "Wrong spin" in english... Most players above a certain level use this serve a lot. Myself, for an example, I am trying to use different variations of spin based on this motion. But you righthanders should be really careful using this against a lefty like me, I can honestly tell you that it's really easy to return in a good way for lefthanded players. (Think it's because of the angle of the wrist or something, don't got a reasonable explanation, just experience)
Many of my opponents in Norway have told me that I have a good service, based on this motion. Don't know if the serve has a name in english, but we could call it "wrong spin" or something, maybe "reversed pendulum", or just "maddafakkin' freaky serve" ?? :)

Haha, anyway, great video! ;)

Mr. RicharD
12-23-2011, 08:58 PM
We call it Cork Screw service. Much like and Underspin loop it takes into account the third trajectory from the z axis. As for service cork screw against a lefty you just have to do it with the opposite spin and to their backhand so I would love to try it against you Anders.

Anders
12-23-2011, 10:41 PM
Bring it on Rich, many have tried those before haha :P

What I'm saying is that it's not a bad serve at all, just that it's not as effective as usual against decent leftys ;) If you ever visit Norway, you are welcome to a match at my club Mr.RicharD :)

judah000
12-24-2011, 04:02 AM
uuhhhhmmmm...I think it is a corkscrew...maybe

judah000
12-24-2011, 04:05 AM
I saw him using this serve in slow motion but when the opponent pushed it didn't pop up....so I think it is a side-backspin serve

UpSideDownCarl
12-24-2011, 06:17 AM
I saw him using this serve in slow motion but when the opponent pushed it didn't pop up....so I think it is a side-backspin serve

He obviously can do a backspin serve with this same motion. I have seen him make top players hit it into the net. The one it the video does look like it is topspin though.

Mr. RicharD
12-24-2011, 03:43 PM
It definitely is. I've studied the service for a long time as my former coach was very good at it. He brings the paddle upwards and to the left of the ball, but uses a diagonal stroke meaning he is putting left spin and top spin, but on the left side of the ball rather than the back side of the ball. With enough spin you are able to make the ball seem like underspin on the first bounce as the ball will rotate slightly downwards giving an underspin bounce, but on the second bounce the ball will rotate around it's z axis and bounce upwards making it a topspin and leftspin service. Just put your mouse on 0:18 and watch how the ball bounces then click it again and again. You'll start to see what's happening just from clicking it a few times.

azlan
12-24-2011, 08:11 PM
They are really good and it is just that they are not in top shape but they trained for like about a year in China when they were young. Their game does not look that awesome because they stay close to the table but when you get to play against them you tell how good they are...
and the video unfortunately was taken with a camera not a video camera that is the reason of the poor resolution...

They're quite decent players buddy. I can see that they have the fundamentals. Fitness is another story, that's why they lack a little in consistency..hehehe but still, it's great if they still feel that they can get something out of TT. They can play, no doubt about it. I think they serve long purposely so that they can get a rally going, and enjoy the game and sweat it out.

Thanx for sharing, I enjoy it.

yurybarquero
12-24-2011, 10:43 PM
I am glad you enjoyed it Azlan and now that you mention it that must be the reason of the long service because they do not train anymore. What they do is coaching and they always advice short serves... I hope I can soon upload a video of myself to one of the threads that we have so that you guys can give me some feedback but I first want to get a better consistency with the Hurricane III. I just changed it and this is the first time I am trying this rubber. The third ball attacks are way easier with this rubber than the ones that I have previously tried but to keep a rally going I need some time to get the most out of this rubber. I need to tame it because with the proper strokes it is amazing and has lots of gears. Now for my backhand I just got a Tenergy 05 and it feels awesome. It is easy to do those flicks like the banana flick with or without sidespin.

Scorpnox
12-25-2011, 11:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVnBUaKWMCY&feature=related : Ma long


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_cJ-XoiOjI&list=FL_jPcVE9hI7tW6wG31YZBag&index=1&feature=plpp_video : Chen Qi

Chen Qi has such a beautiful serve :)

judah000
04-14-2012, 07:16 AM
It definitely is. I've studied the service for a long time as my former coach was very good at it. He brings the paddle upwards and to the left of the ball, but uses a diagonal stroke meaning he is putting left spin and top spin, but on the left side of the ball rather than the back side of the ball. With enough spin you are able to make the ball seem like underspin on the first bounce as the ball will rotate slightly downwards giving an underspin bounce, but on the second bounce the ball will rotate around it's z axis and bounce upwards making it a topspin and leftspin service. Just put your mouse on 0:18 and watch how the ball bounces then click it again and again. You'll start to see what's happening just from clicking it a few times.
Well, I have clicked .18 many times already. What is your point there sir?

TTFrenzy
04-14-2012, 07:34 PM
serve is definetely sidespin . maybe 90 % sidespin with 10 % topspin (ball rotating around a diagonal near to the vertical Z axis) but that doesnt make any difference , if there is topspin or not to the ball because after 2nd bounce it turns into pure sidespin

the fact that the serve didnt pop up doesnt mean it is sideunderspin . the sidespin ma long puts on the ball isnt that much , besides pure sidespin services can be answered with sidechop answers quite effectively

daxx101
04-15-2012, 11:11 AM
i think it side spin with underspin

yang_fan
04-16-2012, 05:03 PM
side top, clear as day.

sunilcse04
04-17-2012, 01:18 AM
Side Topspin!

MundoTT
06-19-2012, 02:34 AM
wooow amazing service :P

royan
01-09-2013, 12:59 PM
i think this video can explain what spin he produces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUR1_N_aNhY&playnext=1&list=PLPWTUEOKMSA-ECV5MBU992Q5VBLMN-OJA

UpSideDownCarl
03-08-2013, 03:46 PM
Bump.......

SirSpinsalot
07-03-2013, 11:45 AM
I think it is sidespin with slight top; disguised with backspin. Look at this video at 1:58. Notice Daniel Habesohn's service return.

http://youtu.be/NaFhVkahE-Y?t=1m58s

royan
07-03-2013, 05:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddVkXRh1UeY If you see this video about ma long's serve, he used to give deceptive topspin motion for underspin serve and fake underspin motion for topspin serve