VOC vs water based Glue

Turdytree · Oct 29, 2018

Besides booster effects, what are the advantages of voc glue? Does it come off more easily? I just need a glue thats super easily to remove because im going to boost and reglue factory tuned rubber once a month.
Btw im not going to play in any ittf tournaments.

mart1nandersson · Oct 29, 2018

Turdytree said:
Besides booster effects, what are the advantages of voc glue? Does it come off more easily? I just need a glue thats super easily to remove because im going to boost and reglue factory tuned rubber once a month.
Btw im not going to play in any ittf tournaments.

I haven’t used speed glue since about 1992 but I wouldn’t leave it glued to the blade for more than a couple of days or you will need to use something like acetone to get the rubber off the blade. Water based glue is extremely easy to deal with. Just remove the rubber and peel off the residue glue with your fingers.

Baal · Oct 30, 2018

Agreed. VOC glue never completely comes out of the sponge. But very easy to peel rubber off the blade unless you let it sit there for several months.

Tire vulcanizing glue works well.

meaapostilleservices · Oct 30, 2018

nice post

thomas.pong · Oct 31, 2018

I've used several water-based glues (Butterfly, Nittaku, Donic...) and found them to all be a pain to use: long drying times, having to use at least 2 layers on the rubbers, don't stick well, propensity for lumps, leave a lot of residue on both blade and rubbers, hard to remove on the rubbers...

I've switched to a low VOC glue sold by the main TT stores in France and Germany. It's very easy to apply evenly with the provided brush, dries quickly, only requires one layer on the rubbers, sticks perfectly, is very easy and smooth to remove, and leaves very little residue on both blade and rubbers. You feel a speed glue effect on the day you glue it, after that, the VOC evaporates after a day or two, you can't smell it anymore and the speed glue effect is gone, but you've got yourself an excellent glue job that will last until you decide to change your rubbers again.

http://www.wsport.com/catalogue/?todo=aff_items&grp=600104

https://www.contra.de/de/contra-kleber-normal-glue-180g.html

Der_Echte · Oct 31, 2018

Lower VOC traditional glues are so much cleaner to apply and remove.

In USA you would need to deal with the crowd accusing you of cheating... you could always counter with an offer to have the accuse water glue a new rubber sheet right in front of national tourney referee watching you... then test it... accuser will have 90 percent chance of failing...

Who is the cheater now?

Of course it failed, because the factory used strong VOCs to make the rubber and bond it to sponge... that takes days to fully dissapte... this is a necessary part of producing a rubber.

Sure, it is not fault of of player, no actual mod by player to improve performance.

I am assured in my belief that attaching your rubbers cleanly to a blade with the glue you propose is in the same category above.

I also believe that tuning a rubber with oil improves the performance of the rubber if done effectively... this is initially done by the maker of the rubber as a process of production...

Ethically, I see little difference in the end result regardless of who applied the tuner. Reapplying tuner in the right amount a month later is tantamount to restoring the rubber... much like giving the top sheet a good cleaning after it is used a month.

I would have zero ethical problems tuning a previously tuned rubber to it's original spec, not would I have a problem with my opponents doing so.

Personally, it is too much a hassle for me to do this every month. I am satisfied well enough with how I can play using the rubbers I use.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

KM1976 · Oct 31, 2018

Der_Echte said:
Lower VOC traditional glues are so much cleaner to apply and remove.

In USA you would need to deal with the crowd accusing you of cheating... you could always counter with an offer to have the accuse water glue a new rubber sheet right in front of national tourney referee watching you... then test it... accuser will have 90 percent chance of failing...

Who is the cheater now?

Of course it failed, because the factory used strong VOCs to make the rubber and bond it to sponge... that takes days to fully dissapte... this is a necessary part of producing a rubber.

Sure, it is not fault of of player, no actual mod by player to improve performance.

I am assured in my belief that attaching your rubbers cleanly to a blade with the glue you propose is in the same category above.

I also believe that tuning a rubber with oil improves the performance of the rubber if done effectively... this is initially done by the maker of the rubber as a process of production...

Ethically, I see little difference in the end result regardless of who applied the tuner. Reapplying tuner in the right amount a month later is tantamount to restoring the rubber... much like giving the top sheet a good cleaning after it is used a month.

I would have zero ethical problems tuning a previously tuned rubber to it's original spec, not would I have a problem with my opponents doing so.

Personally, it is too much a hassle for me to do this every month. I am satisfied well enough with how I can play using the rubbers I use.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Thanks Der_Echte, your posts helps countless number of players like me. I remember that you mentioned somewhere that rubbers like Tenergy get destroyed by VOC glues? Is it true?
I ask this because, I recently bought a bottle of Revolution No. 3 Normal Viscosity glue from megaspin. But this is the worst kind of glue (although it peels off very easily) for sticking rubbers. Even after applying 3 coats on the rubber and 2 coats on the blade the rubbers were not sticking properly. I had to go overboard by applying 3-4 coats on the rubber and 3 coats on the blade to make it stick.
I was really wondering if rather I can use an Elmer's rubber cement next time to stick tenergy.

Der_Echte · Oct 31, 2018

I would not recommend gluing Tenergy to the blade using rubber cement for the first gluing.

After T05 is a few weeks old, then no problem to reglue with Elmer's Rubber Cement. This is only from my observations and friends.

Somehow, if you initially glue T05 with rubber cement on first glue, it is awesome for a day or so, then the rubber falls off a cliff. Seems initially gluing T05 with rubber cement is a great way to ruin the sponge.

Nexy Korea used a large jar of Tibhar water glue and a hair dryer set to no heat air to glue all bats they sent out.

I quit using T05 in 2011 when bty jacked up the price. I only used it a year.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

thomas.pong · Oct 31, 2018

Der_Echte said:
Lower VOC traditional glues are so much cleaner to apply and remove.

In USA you would need to deal with the crowd accusing you of cheating... you could always counter with an offer to have the accuse water glue a new rubber sheet right in front of national tourney referee watching you... then test it... accuser will have 90 percent chance of failing...

Who is the cheater now?

Of course it failed, because the factory used strong VOCs to make the rubber and bond it to sponge... that takes days to fully dissapte... this is a necessary part of producing a rubber.

Sure, it is not fault of of player, no actual mod by player to improve performance.

I am assured in my belief that attaching your rubbers cleanly to a blade with the glue you propose is in the same category above.

I also believe that tuning a rubber with oil improves the performance of the rubber if done effectively... this is initially done by the maker of the rubber as a process of production...

Ethically, I see little difference in the end result regardless of who applied the tuner. Reapplying tuner in the right amount a month later is tantamount to restoring the rubber... much like giving the top sheet a good cleaning after it is used a month.

I would have zero ethical problems tuning a previously tuned rubber to it's original spec, not would I have a problem with my opponents doing so.

Personally, it is too much a hassle for me to do this every month. I am satisfied well enough with how I can play using the rubbers I use.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I'm of the same opinion. I honestly only use this light VOC glue because it gives me the least headache when gluing, ungluing and re-gluing. Except for the first day or two, I don't see a difference in my rubbers' performance from when I use to glue with water based glues. I might get around to use a booster to give a rubber some extra life after months of playing but still haven't gone around to it. The whole booster process, especially for new rubbers, is too daunting of a task for me too. Either way, I wouldn't care if my opponent was boosting or not, to me it's the same as opponents using different blades and rubbers to begin with.

ITTF should legalize boosting anyway since they don't have the right tools to trace tuners, and they imposed those damn plastic balls on everyone...

Lightzy · Oct 31, 2018

Never had any problems with butterfly freechack, using one thin layer of glue.
Always works perfect. I would suggest that perhaps is someone is having undue trouble it is down to the method rather than the glue

yogi_bear · Oct 31, 2018

Voc glues are not messy. The newer wbg like stiga connect and revolution no. 3 are easier to peel off because the act like plastic when being peeled off.

Der_Echte · Nov 1, 2018

thomas.pong said:
I'm of the same opinion. I honestly only use this light VOC glue because it gives me the least headache when gluing, ungluing and re-gluing. Except for the first day or two, I don't see a difference in my rubbers' performance from when I use to glue with water based glues. I might get around to use a booster to give a rubber some extra life after months of playing but still haven't gone around to it. The whole booster process, especially for new rubbers, is too daunting of a task for me too. Either way, I wouldn't care if my opponent was boosting or not, to me it's the same as opponents using different blades and rubbers to begin with.

ITTF should legalize boosting anyway since they don't have the right tools to trace tuners, and they imposed those damn plastic balls on everyone...

For me, boosting is inconvenient. I have to take off rubber, get off all my glue, apply tuner wait, apply tuner, wait, apply tuner, wait... a couple days, and glue e'm back on. Having 100kg of books or a klicky press is needed. It takes too long and I would rather glue my rubbers on once and be done with it until I need a new rubber.

My ethical view on not worrying about who tunes is more centered on fairness. If a TT maker applies the tuner, it is OK and not enhancing performance, but if you or I apply the same tuner in the same degree, it is restoring... but associations see it as cheating, so do some other players. They can suck on an egg or whatever is handy for them.

This is pretty close to a baseball maker producing a baseball glove that is soft. We know time and air and sun and chems can make the leather hard. Periodically, it needs special oil and lube to restore original softness and performance. Imagining MLB saying this is cheating and you should buy a new glove at the cost of a sheet of Tenergy… Parents would flip out crazy mad.

Well, we don't flip out crazy mad over needing to buy TWO sheets of rubber at average cost of 40-70 USD each month or two if we train and compete (2x a year if not for 4 sheets) This is major money going into TT makers... it is wrong... and I say that as a reseller of TT equipment. I don't care, it is wrong, wrong, wrong every day of the week and 4x on the weekend.

if someone wants to restore their rubber to be original or consistent, they should be able to do it. How is an officially gonna measure for this? Rubbers come with smelly tuner in them already... and VOCs still leaching out of the topsheet and sponge. ITTF advised us to "Air out" our rubbers for 3 days. Who friggin' wants to bust open a sheet of rubber and leave it laying around 3 days... your 5 year old will think it is an odd shaped frisbee and start throwing it around.

thomas.pong · Nov 1, 2018

Der_Echte said:
For me, boosting is inconvenient. I have to take off rubber, get off all my glue, apply tuner wait, apply tuner, wait, apply tuner, wait... a couple days, and glue e'm back on. Having 100kg of books or a klicky press is needed. It takes too long and I would rather glue my rubbers on once and be done with it until I need a new rubber.

My ethical view on not worrying about who tunes is more centered on fairness. If a TT maker applies the tuner, it is OK and not enhancing performance, but if you or I apply the same tuner in the same degree, it is restoring... but associations see it as cheating, so do some other players. They can suck on an egg or whatever is handy for them.

This is pretty close to a baseball maker producing a baseball glove that is soft. We know time and air and sun and chems can make the leather hard. Periodically, it needs special oil and lube to restore original softness and performance. Imagining MLB saying this is cheating and you should buy a new glove at the cost of a sheet of Tenergy… Parents would flip out crazy mad.

Well, we don't flip out crazy mad over needing to buy TWO sheets of rubber at average cost of 40-70 USD each month or two if we train and compete (2x a year if not for 4 sheets) This is major money going into TT makers... it is wrong... and I say that as a reseller of TT equipment. I don't care, it is wrong, wrong, wrong every day of the week and 4x on the weekend.

if someone wants to restore their rubber to be original or consistent, they should be able to do it. How is an officially gonna measure for this? Rubbers come with smelly tuner in them already... and VOCs still leaching out of the topsheet and sponge. ITTF advised us to "Air out" our rubbers for 3 days. Who friggin' wants to bust open a sheet of rubber and leave it laying around 3 days... your 5 year old will think it is an odd shaped frisbee and start throwing it around.

I love this post and couldn't agree more!!!

Astorix · Nov 1, 2018

Turdytree said:
Besides booster effects, what are the advantages of voc glue? Does it come off more easily? I just need a glue thats super easily to remove because im going to boost and reglue factory tuned rubber once a month.
Btw im not going to play in any ittf tournaments.

i reboost regularly myself and the best experience i made was either with revolution nr.3 or nittaku finezip. if you put at least 2-3 layers of glue it can be removed with a single rip off without doing any damage to blade or rubber. i highly recommend these glues for boosting.

Simas · Nov 1, 2018

Lightzy said:
Never had any problems with butterfly freechack, using one thin layer of glue.
Always works perfect. I would suggest that perhaps is someone is having undue trouble it is down to the method rather than the glue

same here with Donic Formula First glue. Apply, wait, glue, forget. It sticks to the rubber really nicely and I have to put some efforts to peel the rubbers from the blade. Glue residue removes without any problem too -you can rub them with a finger or whatever.

mart1nandersson · Nov 1, 2018

I've been using Andro Free Glue ever since I picked up TT earlier this year. 20ish € for a bottle that will last a life time. Great stuff. I assume it's manufactured by ESN as it's quite similar to the Donic glue that a friend is using.

It has worked on H3 that's been boosted to the shape of a spring roll. I've used it on more rubbers than I dare to admit. But I can assure you that it works on T05, B2, EL-S, Genesis II and quite a few others. Some have been treated with Seamoon and some with Falco Long.

The process is very similar to Simas with the exception that I put the racket in a Yasaka Clicky Press for something like an hour. It's good to play after an hour even if it's H3 which probably should've been resting for another 3-4 days.

... and it's also quite easy to remove. I just rub my thumb against the residue glue and it's gone in a few minutes.

Turdytree · Nov 2, 2018

I found a super cheap voc glue on table tennis11 (name doesnt say its speed glue). I dont play in ittf tournaments and dont change rubber often. What do you guys think?

Der_Echte · Nov 2, 2018

Scroll up and read my post #6

thomas.pong · Nov 2, 2018

Turdytree said:
I found a super cheap voc glue on table tennis11 (name doesnt say its speed glue). I dont play in ittf tournaments and dont change rubber often. What do you guys think?

Which one?

Turdytree · Nov 2, 2018

thomas.pong said:
Which one?

275LAB voc glue

VOC vs water based Glue

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