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toekneema
11-01-2018, 04:56 AM
How do you adjust your BH topspin stroke against higher balls? Not smash-high balls, but just balls that may kick up higher around chest level.

Personally, it feels uncomfortable to be hitting the ball with BH at that height, and I cannot generate enough power to hit it with good quality.

Lula
11-01-2018, 06:38 AM
Lift the elbow higher or play forehand if you have enough time.

Hamasaki_Fanz
11-01-2018, 06:49 AM
How do you adjust your BH topspin stroke against higher balls? Not smash-high balls, but just balls that may kick up higher around chest level.

Personally, it feels uncomfortable to be hitting the ball with BH at that height, and I cannot generate enough power to hit it with good quality.

jump and hit the ball.. that's how we overcome highball in backhand

yoass
11-01-2018, 07:43 AM
How do you adjust your BH topspin stroke against higher balls? Not smash-high balls, but just balls that may kick up higher around chest level.

Personally, it feels uncomfortable to be hitting the ball with BH at that height, and I cannot generate enough power to hit it with good quality.

You either move forward and take it on the bounce, or at least on the rise; or you let it descend. I at least lose power and consistency pretty quickly if I hit Bh-balls not directly before my sternum.

yogi_bear
11-01-2018, 08:32 AM
I say wait for it to descend before smashing it.

Saiful Islam
11-01-2018, 06:36 PM
wow
niceee

Suga D
11-01-2018, 07:16 PM
jump and hit the ball.. that's how we overcome highball in backhand

Could you pls film this? Would love to see how you mean this.
[Emoji6]
First time i hear that someone suggests to jump on purpose. There is a reason most coaches i know recommend to have a legit stand and move after shot execution, so I would really love to hear your reasoning.

Xylit
11-01-2018, 07:16 PM
Chop with massive backspin.

yoass
11-01-2018, 07:18 PM
Could you pls film this? Would love to see how you mean this.
[Emoji6]
First time i hear that someone suggests to jump on purpose. There is a reason most coaches i know recommend to have a legit stand and move after shot execution, so I would really love to hear your reasoning.

“Desmond Douglas scissor jump”. It used to be famous, and I’ve sern it with my own eyes. Also: the Persson flyswat.

Suga D
11-01-2018, 08:09 PM
“Desmond Douglas scissor jump”. It used to be famous, and I’ve sern it with my own eyes. Also: the Persson flyswat.

Ok, there are always exceptions to rules.
If my memory doesn't trick me they used their forehands though, didn't they?

Suga D
11-01-2018, 08:14 PM
I was waiting for this!
The famous chopsmash!
[EMOJI23]

yoass
11-01-2018, 08:14 PM
Ok, there are always exceptions to rules.
If my memory doesn't trick me they used their forehands though, didn't they?

Persson’s flyswat was a BH thing. Douglas jumped for FH smashes.

Suga D
11-01-2018, 09:03 PM
Persson’s flyswat was a BH thing. Douglas jumped for FH smashes.

You're absolutely right. Didn't think of that one. Persson actually was well known for that one.
Thanks for reminding.

Actually Omar Assar also likes jumping while smashing with his forehand.

Hamasaki_Fanz
11-02-2018, 04:13 AM
Could you pls film this? Would love to see how you mean this.
[Emoji6]
First time i hear that someone suggests to jump on purpose. There is a reason most coaches i know recommend to have a legit stand and move after shot execution, so I would really love to hear your reasoning.

you often see backhand oriented player like ZJK does this.. the goal is to catch the top of the ball while it's still raising.
I'm sure you can imagine it :D

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-02-2018, 04:48 AM
its about getting in position early and adjusting if you misread the trajectory of the slow/high ball.

The most common mistake I make is rushing, and standing still waiting for the ball instead of adjusting

normally you have time on a slow / high ball to use your FH. But I will admit, hitting BH smashs is a bit my signature shot. I take my backswing well in advance, wait for the ball and go for it ! if the ball is high but fast, then a block or counter is more appropriate

doraemon
11-03-2018, 03:59 AM
change your position so it is comfortable to hit the backhand (ie higher centre of gravity to come over the ball or taking a step back or both), or even better, pivot forehand like ryu seungmin for a flashy finish hahaha

Simas
11-05-2018, 07:05 AM
of course, use your FH. BH will never ever be as deadly.

If you are out of position (that should be a common thing), lean to the left and then lean towards the floor and smash it. After the smash you can practically touch the ground with your left arm... I do it quite often and you can see a lot of pros do it with the balls that fly to your chest... If by an accident I find the video, I'll upload it here.

Just be warned, that if your smash isn't deadly, you will be totally out of position for the returning ball... :D

Ranger-man
11-05-2018, 10:33 AM
If it is a high ball that you know will rise, I would think you have time to adjust and turn it into a forehand. Unless you are a backhand oriented player I would say turn it into a forehand.

Hamasaki_Fanz
02-19-2019, 04:03 PM
Could you pls film this? Would love to see how you mean this.
[Emoji6]
First time i hear that someone suggests to jump on purpose. There is a reason most coaches i know recommend to have a legit stand and move after shot execution, so I would really love to hear your reasoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzKWLKiVq7o at 2:38

Dr Evil
02-19-2019, 04:23 PM
Easier to generate power on bh high balls if you hit fade type spin (racket pointed up, righties contact the right side of the ball). It lets you get the racket head at ball height while keeping your elbow in a less awkward position.

Suga D
02-19-2019, 08:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzKWLKiVq7o at 2:38

To me it rather looked like a counterdrive than like a smash, but probably that's just semantics, don't wanna sound nitpicking, but in fact it also rather looked as if he tiptoed more than really trying to jump, as if he wanted to jump on the table or doing the Persson move.
[Emoji2]

Anyhow,

this might be recommendable to people who have been practicing seriously since the age of four, but most coaches i know who coach mere mortals rather recommended to have a solid stand while hitting. Also I was coached to rather use the fh against lobs, since it's easier to control angle and placement for most and not imitate the top pros so much.

[Emoji2]

langel
02-19-2019, 09:30 PM
It depends on the particular situation.
Some people above gave some answers, applicable to some situations - if you can, take the ball early, if you can, take the ball later.
My advice is - if you can, step behind with the opposite to your playing hand foot and hit with a wider arm opening of the BH motion. This way you would be able to controll much better the swing, angle and pace of the hit, than taking it just infront of the chest. i know its just the opposite to the traditional "mass to the hit", but in fact it works exactly with even more mass, if you manage to temp the execution of this hit with the proper swing.

dchow1992
02-19-2019, 09:38 PM
I can't post links, but if you go to samson dubina's youtube channel
he has a video of Koji Uezu taking one off the bounce with a lot of quality and power

langel
02-19-2019, 10:03 PM
I can't post links, but if you go to samson dubina's youtube channel
he has a video of Koji Uezu taking one off the bounce with a lot of quality and power


And what final conclusion you make after analyzing that particular shot?

Lula
02-19-2019, 10:04 PM
Have you tried raising the elbow to where the ball is? very surprised that no one else have said this. It only feels strange to raise the elbow because you are not used to it. I also would say that you will generate more power from the backhand if you raise the elbow and hit forward.

I do not think you should wait for the ball to go down, then you need to play softer. If the ball is so high that you need to wait for it to go down, you have the time to play forehand. Otherwise you can get used to raise the elbow and get good power from this shot.

danisius
02-19-2019, 10:10 PM
The best option is to smash it with forhand.
I also tend to do it with Backhand when feel tired but it is a risky shot
how i do it start from shoulder height racket pointed up elbow is low at stomache level and just rotate arm forward and downward (if my oponent is at distance greater that two meters i`ll give some side spin also ) try to hit the ball when raising and is just still below chest.

dchow1992
02-19-2019, 10:15 PM
And what final conclusion you make after analyzing that particular shot?

I guess you have primarily 2 options.
The first option is to step around / backwards (to account for the height of the bounce) and make a forehand attack.
and the second is to take advantage of the slow traveling high ball and try to make the backhand attack.

It seems since the ball is a little high, he has time to plan his stroke. his power seems to come from winding up below the table instead of a large backswing so the stroke seems compact and explosive.

langel
02-19-2019, 10:22 PM
Have you tried raising the elbow to where the ball is? very surprised that no one else have said this. It only feels strange to raise the elbow because you are not used to it. I also would say that you will generate more power from the backhand if you raise the elbow and hit forward.

I do not think you should wait for the ball to go down, then you need to play softer. If the ball is so high that you need to wait for it to go down, you have the time to play forehand. Otherwise you can get used to raise the elbow and get good power from this shot.

it works if you don't have time for footwork. Taking the that way, frontcomming, raising the elbow require shoulder up and body front-up motion, which is pace and time limited.
Step behind and arm opening allow much easier, natively stroke assembled sequence of needed elbow-wrist swing and hight without extra shoulder engagement. You get it?

Lula
02-19-2019, 10:46 PM
it works if you don't have time for footwork. Taking the that way, frontcomming, raising the elbow require shoulder up and body front-up motion, which is pace and time limited.
Step behind and arm opening allow much easier, natively stroke assembled sequence of needed elbow-wrist swing and hight without extra shoulder engagement. You get it?

No, i do not really follow. I think he do not should lose much time raising the elbow. He should not need to raise it so much, against topspin he wants to have the racket high from the beginning. If he needs to raise the elbow very much i think he have the racket to low from the beginning.

I agree that he need to move his feet, that you always need to do. If the ball is high he proably want to step out a bit to be able to kill the ball.

And of course he should not use the shoulder in the shot. He wants to do the exactly same backhand stroke, with forearm and wrist but just with the arm higher where the ball is.

And to be able to kill the ball he really need to lift the arm to where the ball is so he can hit forward. If he have the racket under the ball he will hit upward and not get power to kill the ball.

Once again i did not understand what you meant, so if i misunderstood something please explain again. Maybe my english is to bad, or maybe it is hard to explain in text.

Interesting to here what others think. There are several ways to play tabletennis.

langel
02-19-2019, 11:44 PM
I feel you got it well.
The way you explained is almost exactly what I mean. The little difference is the need of raising the elbow.
To make the picture - when you take a higher ball comimg just infront of you and you don't have time for proper stance, than the standard advice is to raise the elbow first /higher as needed/ and follow the stroke consiquence. Result depends on many factors. But, in the same scenario, it will take exactly the same time to step back, turning your body and opening your arm with the needed swing. This way you may execute either a punch or spin the ball and you don't have to think much about elbow and shoulder as the strike sequence is more natural and it follows the elbow and round it without raising it. The strength of this shot is also higher bacause of the longer swing available, no matter of the step back, in fact this step back with the body rotation gives the needed space for arm extension with longer swing at the same temp timing.

langel
02-20-2019, 12:53 AM
To be more picturable - you may look at the differences between Uchi Ude Uke and Jodan Age Uke.
Both can be executed with step front and step back, body turn or not. But the main difference is that with Uchi you may execute any type of TT BH at any hight and with any spin or no spin, and the arm is opening round the elbow. With Jodan Uke you see that the natural stance is the opposite to the TT BH handling, because of the elbow raising. You may do it in TT with TT BH handling, but its less natural and with limited power, control and result. I may be wrong, but I often make comparisons with my other sport to find the basics.

brokenball
02-20-2019, 04:40 AM
When I play with long pips this is a big problem. I must twiddle or step around. My chances still aren't great. If I am playing with SP or inverted on my BH I hit the ball off the bounce if I can.

Dr Evil
02-20-2019, 10:26 PM
Easier to generate power on bh high balls if you hit fade type spin (racket pointed up, righties contact the right side of the ball). It lets you get the racket head at ball height while keeping your elbow in a less awkward position.
Like this (shot at 1:26 followed by replay):

https://youtu.be/5KRBwterPiI?t=86

Lula
02-20-2019, 10:38 PM
When I play with long pips this is a big problem. I must twiddle or step around. My chances still aren't great. If I am playing with SP or inverted on my BH I hit the ball off the bounce if I can.

If you are a pushblocker i think the ball should never be this high, then you are taking the ball way to late.

But proably more difficult if you are a chopper. Maybe you can try to stand further away so the ball Do not get so high. Goes faster to run forward aswell. But Maybe hard to avoid getting a high ball against you sometimes.

Lightzy
02-21-2019, 02:48 AM
How do you adjust your BH topspin stroke against higher balls? Not smash-high balls, but just balls that may kick up higher around chest level.

Personally, it feels uncomfortable to be hitting the ball with BH at that height, and I cannot generate enough power to hit it with good quality.

Start with the bat under your chin, pointing at the left side of your throat. Swing out and extend the wrist from there coming over the ball.
The same way you see like Hugo Calderano cock his wrist for the backhand. Bat pointing inwards, towards the body, and flat angle. Except under the chin.

brokenball
02-21-2019, 03:52 AM
If you are a pushblocker i think the ball should never be this high, then you are taking the ball way to late.

But proably more difficult if you are a chopper. Maybe you can try to stand further away so the ball Do not get so high. Goes faster to run forward aswell. But Maybe hard to avoid getting a high ball against you sometimes.
Ideally you are right but there are always times when someone thinks outside the box.

https://youtu.be/VZvZvUchfwU
Everyone should have seen it. It is funny but is also shows the difficulties of playing with blocking LP. Pushblock should have been able to hit these high balls with his FH or at least twiddle.

hipnotic
02-21-2019, 09:45 AM
This is how i do it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FqiWD1xWWo

Hamasaki_Fanz
02-21-2019, 10:12 AM
This is how i do it :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FqiWD1xWWo

it wasnt that high, still below your head level, but nice backhand :)

Atas Newton
02-28-2019, 08:11 PM
jump and hit the ball.. that's how we overcome highball in backhand
a case in point (https://youtu.be/4QW1hb4cywY?t=9055), Sun Yingsha does the little jump on a high ball.

Hamasaki_Fanz
03-01-2019, 05:19 AM
a case in point (https://youtu.be/4QW1hb4cywY?t=9055), Sun Yingsha does the little jump on a high ball.

Yup, that's how we generally deal with high ball. Once one develops a good backhand technique + feeling, the movement is very natural because we're trying to get on top of the ball.

Edit: Also, another example is when you see players jump a little when doing backhand block. It's the same concept, we're trying to get on top of the ball.

langel
03-01-2019, 07:49 AM
Well, jumping in order to take a higher ball may work, but the usual BH jumping, including this in the shared video, is in oder to give additional upword and forword impuls to the BH strong, which is lacking the force of the FH swing. In addition this "jump" helps with the following micro stepping of the footwork, helps to keep the temp and breathing. Its very well visible in all women BH strokes. Men have much more power and in a dynamic play it may be not so visible, but its still there, even when taking very low balls - you may see for example how FZG jumps although the ball is so low that he has almost to sit.

Hamasaki_Fanz
03-31-2019, 05:03 PM
another great example of overcoming high backhand ball by jumping
https://youtu.be/x2ofHl9gFMQ?t=617 at 10:17

Takkyu_wa_inochi
04-01-2019, 03:52 AM
FALCK's BH was awesome during this Qatar Open.