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View Full Version : Hugo Calderano on Team Xiom



lVegita
01-03-2019, 10:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdTLoLi_TR4

yogi_bear
01-03-2019, 11:27 AM
Yup I am hoping they will make a Hugo Calderano blade.

Lula
01-03-2019, 11:28 AM
any reason why he changed?

PiZa
01-03-2019, 11:30 AM
Xiom brand is bigger and bigger with every month.

yogi_bear
01-03-2019, 11:38 AM
Probably good offers.

lVegita
01-03-2019, 11:57 AM
Yup I am hoping they will make a Hugo Calderano blade.Apparently he is using a Feel ZX3 on the video, but you can still try his Cornilleau Foco model (:

lVegita
01-03-2019, 12:06 PM
any reason why he changed?Not sure, he will keep promoting Cornilleau Leisure though.

GusShnaps
01-03-2019, 01:02 PM
Is he not sponsored by Cornilleau anymore?

vvk1
01-03-2019, 01:46 PM
A lot at stake for Xiom.

Let's hope HC inches closer to the top 3 as a result.

Otherwise, if HC's ranking tanks after switching to Xiom equipment, people would blame it on equipment.

romanzdk
01-03-2019, 02:33 PM
Apparently he is using a Feel ZX3 on the video, but you can still try his Cornilleau Foco model (:

And Omega VII Tour (at least on FH)

Spitfire
01-03-2019, 04:06 PM
XIOM have confirmed Hugo will be using a yet to be released Blade

Guruzz
01-03-2019, 05:50 PM
but is not Hugo one of the chiefs of the cornellieu?

FruitLoop
01-03-2019, 05:58 PM
So since he actually used Cornilleau equipment can we expect him to actually use Xiom equipment? Rather than disguised Viscaria and T05.

lVegita
01-03-2019, 06:41 PM
Well, Simon Gauzy left Cornilleau as well.
He signed with Andro now.

yogi_bear
01-03-2019, 06:55 PM
Players are not obliged to use the equipment they promote if it will affect their game.

romanzdk
01-03-2019, 06:56 PM
Isnt Cornilleau actually quitting TT market?


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iamsan
01-03-2019, 08:16 PM
Why ain't he using the new ice cream blades released

Ioiettino
01-03-2019, 09:36 PM
Isnt Cornilleau actually quitting TT market?


No, not even close (the tables they build in particular are excellent, and very popular here in France - also because they are entirely designed and made in the country, not stamped OEM stuff) but the Calderano and Gauzy blades won't be produced anymore. From the information going around at this stage on French websites, this will be the only change and confirmation has been given to resellers that all other products will remain available.
I imagine the endorsements may not bring in value what they cost (in terms of selling competition-grade blades) but as said earlier in this post, both players' names and effigy should still be used for leisure equipment.

TTHopeful
01-03-2019, 10:08 PM
Well, Simon Gauzy left Cornilleau as well.
He signed with Andro now.

When did he join andro?

FruitLoop
01-03-2019, 10:56 PM
Players are not obliged to use the equipment they promote if it will affect their game.

Depends on the terms of the contract.

hills4ever
01-03-2019, 11:19 PM
Answers to your questions,

Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)

As for the equipment, he is already using our rubber.
As for the blade we are still working on it.

We are very pleased to have him joined our TEAM XIOM.

Simas
01-04-2019, 10:57 AM
Players are not obliged to use the equipment they promote if it will affect their game.

that sound counterintuitive to me.

If someone is promoting a brand (a.k.a saying that it's a good stuff) and is playing with another, he is signalling that the other brand, the one he is playing, is the better then the former. So the brand he "promotes" gets not a positive, not neutral, but a negative image.. imho..

Simas
01-04-2019, 11:10 AM
Answers to your questions,

Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)

As for the equipment, he is already using our rubber.
As for the blade we are still working on it.

We are very pleased to have him joined our TEAM XIOM.

That's very cool. Congratulations


Why ain't he using the new ice cream blades released

That's a very good question. Somehow I feel that Ice cream blades are for amateurs/ advanced or high level amateurs like us. Who like TT, like doing some EJ, who play or train regularly, but still are searching for the holy grail of equipment for their unperfect style/ technique.

Pro's don't have such problem, they invested thousands and thousand of hours in their technique and it is perfected and polished using the conventional blades and don't need technical solutions to compensate for smth... (Don't know if I articulated what I meant good enough...). So I don't think we are going to see any Pro any time soon playing with a hybrid blade.

What are other opinions on that? Especially hills4ever?

romanzdk
01-04-2019, 11:11 AM
What about Xiom sponsoring (at least clothes) some chinese super leagues teams? (Ma Long etc.) They are surely not using Xiom equipment too.


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yogi_bear
01-04-2019, 11:19 AM
Then you have not checked why zjk uses hurricane 3 in the forehand when he is sponsored by buttery and why waldner uses tenergy 05 instead of donic rubbers.

that sound counterintuitive to me.

If someone is promoting a brand (a.k.a saying that it's a good stuff) and is playing with another, he is signalling that the other brand, the one he is playing, is the better then the former. So the brand he "promotes" gets not a positive, not neutral, but a negative image.. imho..

FruitLoop
01-04-2019, 11:21 AM
Answers to your questions,

Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)

As for the equipment, he is already using our rubber.
As for the blade we are still working on it.

We are very pleased to have him joined our TEAM XIOM.

Can you specify which rubbers at this time? Will the blade be released for public or is it custom for Hugo?

yogi_bear
01-04-2019, 11:21 AM
Ice cream blades on the contray are not for beginners. The blades especially the AZX need to have a good amount of technique and control to fully utilize it. Make no mistake it is a fast blade.

Simas
01-04-2019, 11:47 AM
Then you have not checked why zjk uses hurricane 3 in the forehand when he is sponsored by buttery and why waldner uses tenergy 05 instead of donic rubbers.

that's a good point. maybe because it is nearly impossible to fake the rubbers you are using. You just can't switch a logo on the rubber as you can switch the blade handle. So maybe the exception you are talking about is specifically meant for the rubbers? Cause generally the players are using at least the handles from the blades of the brands they are sponsored.

yogi_bear
01-04-2019, 12:14 PM
It is not about faking rubbers or blades. If you have been long enough in this forum, there are plenty of threads here that players do not use the equipment they are advertised. If you even just cou t the chibese national team players that do this we will not be even having this discussion.

yogi_bear
01-04-2019, 12:16 PM
Back to the topic, i will not be surprised if Hugo will use the AZXi also aside from JYS since the AZXi is a perfectly balanced blade in terms if control, speed and feel.

JST
01-04-2019, 12:27 PM
I see Ice cream blades being marketed clearly with JYS's name so it makes sense that Hugo will get another product named by him (even if it will be very close to one of AZX blades)

When it comes to equipment and sponsoring: when some brand sponsors a team it's for brand presence on the apparel. I believe it's OK that for key parts of equipment athletes use what they want (like hockey sticks and skates in NHL - independent on which brand gets a contract for the jerseys) and it doesn't harm the image. But if you are signed by specific brand as individual and you promote specific equipment by your name then it's definitely harms the image if you use product of another brand on the court. It simply gives a signal that your brand isn't able to deliver the same quality/properties and that you as athlete don't work with them closely enough to achieve that. Can you do it (like many TT players do with Tenergy rubbers)? Sure. Does it signal something to the customer (e.g. that Tenergy and overall Butterfly products are superior on the highest performance level)? Sure.

vossi39
01-04-2019, 12:44 PM
Well. At least Hugo is already accustomed to ESN material. The rubbers he is currently using are from ESN and XIOMs are also produced there. It will be easy to give him the "perfect" rubber with a XIOM Logo. Whether this rubber is equal to what you can buy in the shops is another story. I definitly know that ESN is producing special pro player versions of the Tibhar Evolutions, so why woulnd't they produce special one for Cornilleau or XIOM.

With respect to the blade..Calderano has been using no composite blades so far. He always went with an all wood setup. I doubt that he will be changing to an composite blade soon. But XIOM has track record for good all wood blades as well. Let's wait and see, how this develops.

Will be interesting to see, if he is already using new equipement in German Final Four Tournament this weekend...

pgpg
01-04-2019, 12:51 PM
I see Ice cream blades being marketed clearly with JYS's name so it makes sense that Hugo will get another product named by him (even if it will be very close to one of AZX blades)

When it comes to equipment and sponsoring: when some brand sponsors a team it's for brand presence on the apparel. I believe it's OK that for key parts of equipment athletes use what they want (like hockey sticks and skates in NHL - independent on which brand gets a contract for the jerseys) and it doesn't harm the image. But if you are signed by specific brand as individual and you promote specific equipment by your name then it's definitely harms the image if you use product of another brand on the court. It simply gives a signal that your brand isn't able to deliver the same quality/properties and that you as athlete don't work with them closely enough to achieve that. Can you do it (like many TT players do with Tenergy rubbers)? Sure. Does it signal something to the customer (e.g. that Tenergy and overall Butterfly products are superior on the highest performance level)? Sure.

I don't believe NHL has brand advertisements on jerseys. NBA is considering it, I've heard. MLS does, but this practice is widely accepted in soccer worldwide. American major sports are weird that way, at least for now.

suds79
01-04-2019, 12:51 PM
any reason why he changed?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Don't basically all these pros make more from endorsements than they actually do say winnings from tournaments?

I don't blame him. Get you money Hugo.

JST
01-04-2019, 01:10 PM
I don't believe NHL has brand advertisements on jerseys. NBA is considering it, I've heard. MLS does, but this practice is widely accepted in soccer worldwide. American major sports are weird that way, at least for now.

There is no classic big logo such as soccer jerseys in Europe leagues but you can see that it was contracted to adidas and they switched recently to Reebok. And companies pay huge money for that even if there is just little sticker on the jersey itself... what I mean is that either club or league sponsoring with apparel has different status for consumers (at least me) then actual name of the athlete on the blade. Think about tennis players: few of them have single sponsor for clothing and shoes and racket but most of them have one for each. However if you are Wilson sponsored player like Federer there are no doubts he is using Wilson frame. Similar for golf players (no doubts that Tiger was using Nike gear and now TaylorMade when Nike stopped making those). I'm not sure why this is necessary in table tennis...

vvk1
01-04-2019, 02:00 PM
Then you have not checked why zjk uses hurricane 3 in the forehand when he is sponsored by buttery and why waldner uses tenergy 05 instead of donic rubbers.

Well, ZJK does use T05 on BH - and his BH over the table is/was the showcase for T05 awesomeness, so BTY sponsoring him is logical. Ditto for Samsonov/Dinkhall and Tibhar.

FruitLoop
01-04-2019, 02:17 PM
Tibhar players tend to use Tibhar products though. Drinkhall and Samsonov included.

JST
01-04-2019, 02:19 PM
Tibhar players tend to use Tibhar products though. Drinkhall and Samsonov included.

Except rubbers?;)

lVegita
01-04-2019, 02:49 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Don't basically all these pros make more from endorsements than they actually do say winnings from tournaments?

I don't blame him. Get you money Hugo.I'm actually thinking that maybe Cornilleau themselves didn't want to renew the contracts, since Gauzy and Hugo left at the same time. Maybe they will really focus on leisure.

lVegita
01-04-2019, 03:14 PM
When did he join andro?It was posted on Andro's Brazilian Facebook page yesterday.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=554005385115026&id=100015167074694https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190104/6448db4129675be87acb89e8a9865811.jpg

sagar_sawant
01-04-2019, 03:20 PM
I like Cornilleau atleast they have not hiked the price of there blade like crazy. I started using Gatien Vision Off+ recently and it is decent blade. I was inclined to buy butterfly AI ZLF but after trying gatien vision off+ i decided to stay with it and saved lot of £ to spend on next TT stuff :P

zeio
01-04-2019, 04:00 PM
I like Cornilleau atleast they have not hiked the price of there blade like crazy.

Not like they can anyway. Adidas learned it the hard way.

Simas
01-04-2019, 04:50 PM
It is not about faking rubbers or blades. If you have been long enough in this forum, there are plenty of threads here that players do not use the equipment they are advertised. If you even just cou t the chibese national team players that do this we will not be even having this discussion.

it's a well-known thing, that players do not use the brands they are advertising. The problem is with the actual message you as the consumer get from such a situation.

18179

so it's not as if stiga is just sort of general sponsor putting their logo on the t-shirt. They are writing that FZD is using Stiga and FZD is putting the handles. So basically they are telling tales. And for me as a consumer who is informed does not sound that Stiga is good enough for FZD, and that's the opposite message of what they wanted.

yogi_bear
01-04-2019, 06:22 PM
Cherry picming on stiga or xiom itself is not fair since butterfly and other major companies also sell them. Hell, why do not we also complain everything aboht celebrities and other sportsmen who represent other brands and products who do no use them also.

FruitLoop
01-04-2019, 06:22 PM
Except rubbers?;)

They both use MXP.

FruitLoop
01-04-2019, 06:47 PM
Cherry picming on stiga or xiom itself is not fair since butterfly and other major companies also sell them. Hell, why do not we also complain everything aboht celebrities and other sportsmen who represent other brands and products who do no use them also.

In golf there are no equipment secrets. Aside from custom fitting, you can go out and buy Rory McIlroys Why exact equipment he actually uses. Why the secrecy in TT?

Konrad Bak
01-04-2019, 07:05 PM
All tt market is poor. Stiga used to sell a lot of clipper, infinity in China Because they have national sponsorhip even all chinese use dhs.
I think fzd use custom alc Because its thicker... you can find video when ovtcharov gets long5 from ma long so they can propably knows that equipment deal is all about company and they Must feed their family

NextLevel
01-04-2019, 10:48 PM
It is not about faking rubbers or blades. If you have been long enough in this forum, there are plenty of threads here that players do not use the equipment they are advertised. If you even just cou t the chibese national team players that do this we will not be even having this discussion.


It always depends on the contract. Some contracts force you to use your sponsor's equipment, others do not.

NextLevel
01-04-2019, 10:50 PM
Answers to your questions,

Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)

As for the equipment, he is already using our rubber.
As for the blade we are still working on it.

We are very pleased to have him joined our TEAM XIOM.

Is Jung Youngsik with Xiom too? Since when?

hills4ever
01-05-2019, 02:42 AM
Just to help people to understand the blades and stuff.

Equipment takes time,
Even for amateurs, they can clearly feel the difference between pure wood and also composite blade.
If any of the players try ice cream from ANY of the blade in the market, I am sure that they will love the blade. and I am sure that majority of the players including world class players will admit that it is a super nice blade. However when you play with the blade for maybe 1 week and play in a competition, you might not get the result that you expect. Because you need time to get used to the blade.
This applies the same for any of the professional players. Hugo is already playing with pure wood, and Ice cream is more offensive than the blade that he is already using.
It will take time for him to get adjusted to it. He can use it, but he will need time to get used to them.
Meanwhile XIOM has already have been working on a blade for him for XIOM development lab. :)
Let's give it a time, he has been only contracted to us for 5 days. :) lol

Tony's Table Tennis
01-05-2019, 04:30 AM
Just to help people to understand the blades and stuff.

Equipment takes time,
Even for amateurs, they can clearly feel the difference between pure wood and also composite blade.
If any of the players try ice cream from ANY of the blade in the market, I am sure that they will love the blade. and I am sure that majority of the players including world class players will admit that it is a super nice blade. However when you play with the blade for maybe 1 week and play in a competition, you might not get the result that you expect. Because you need time to get used to the blade.
This applies the same for any of the professional players. Hugo is already playing with pure wood, and Ice cream is more offensive than the blade that he is already using.
It will take time for him to get adjusted to it. He can use it, but he will need time to get used to them.
Meanwhile XIOM has already have been working on a blade for him for XIOM development lab. :)
Let's give it a time, he has been only contracted to us for 5 days. :) lol

I personally have no doubts on Xiom's ability to R&D and manufacture.
I also personally vouch for the equipment expertise and knowledge of hills4ever.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-05-2019, 04:36 AM
Is Jung Youngsik with Xiom too? Since when?

Ice Cream blade has JJS's name on it.
I'm sure you couldn't have miss the threads.
There is also so much marketing on JJS with the Ice Cream blade series

Here is one of Xiom's earlier videos (Pre Launch)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHt8IEE4tI

drunix80
01-05-2019, 04:58 AM
How much does a player like Hugo earn from such a contract ?

CoolPug7
01-05-2019, 05:02 AM
How to you pronouce the brand name? Is it X-iom or like Xi-om

Simas
01-05-2019, 06:44 AM
Just to help people to understand the blades and stuff.

Equipment takes time,
Even for amateurs, they can clearly feel the difference between pure wood and also composite blade.
If any of the players try ice cream from ANY of the blade in the market, I am sure that they will love the blade. and I am sure that majority of the players including world class players will admit that it is a super nice blade. However when you play with the blade for maybe 1 week and play in a competition, you might not get the result that you expect. Because you need time to get used to the blade.
This applies the same for any of the professional players. Hugo is already playing with pure wood, and Ice cream is more offensive than the blade that he is already using.
It will take time for him to get adjusted to it. He can use it, but he will need time to get used to them.
Meanwhile XIOM has already have been working on a blade for him for XIOM development lab. :)
Let's give it a time, he has been only contracted to us for 5 days. :) lol

just wondering (for no particular reason) what do you do at Xiom? Are you in marketing, sales, R&D...? If that's not a secret? :)

Table Tennis Reborn
01-05-2019, 08:56 AM
How much does a player like Hugo earn from such a contract ?

This info would be good for the kids growing up to see there is money in TT if you work hard at it.

yogi_bear
01-05-2019, 08:56 AM
Ekz-yom

how to you pronouce the brand name? Is it x-iom or like xi-om

RidTheKid
01-05-2019, 09:38 AM
In tennis however you have this as well. Every year a new Wilson Pro Staff is released as RF's new racket, but he's been using the same racket for a long time. Wilson applies the new paint job to his old rackets.


In golf there are no equipment secrets. Aside from custom fitting, you can go out and buy Rory McIlroys Why exact equipment he actually uses. Why the secrecy in TT?

yogi_bear
01-05-2019, 11:46 AM
I am sure Xiom can just make an all wood blade with Hugo's specification. It will take time for him to change blades.

romanzdk
01-05-2019, 11:47 AM
How about Hugo still playing with his current Blade with Xiom handle? [emoji1][emoji1751]*[emoji3603]


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Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 02:25 PM
Mizutani is playing with DHS H5 long
Falck is playing with DHS H5 long
Youngsik is playing with DHS H5 long and not his Personal ICE CREAM

Show H5 long for Hugo, he won't play your brand equipment no more.
People still think that super pro players needs "adjustment" =myth

romanzdk
01-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Mizutani is playing with DHS H5 long
Falck is playing with DHS H5 long
Youngsik is playing with DHS H5 long and not his Personal ICE CREAM

Show H5 long for Hugo, he won't play your brand equipment no more.
People still think that super pro players needs "adjustment" =myth

Source of all these information ?


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RidTheKid
01-05-2019, 02:40 PM
Yep, provide some source for this info.


Mizutani is playing with DHS H5 long
Falck is playing with DHS H5 long
Youngsik is playing with DHS H5 long and not his Personal ICE CREAM

Show H5 long for Hugo, he won't play your brand equipment no more.
People still think that super pro players needs "adjustment" =myth

TTHopeful
01-05-2019, 02:47 PM
Dima uses H5 Long to i hear

obsidian d
01-05-2019, 03:41 PM
i'm watching the final of the german cup and Calderano is definitely using XIOM rubbers. I'm not shore about the blade

lVegita
01-05-2019, 03:46 PM
They just won (:

Calderano still using his Cornilleau Foco.

Gauzy using at least Andro edge tape [emoji23]

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 03:58 PM
Mizutani
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsND5cvh2SU/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=kw0837hltfb0

langel
01-05-2019, 03:58 PM
How to you pronouce the brand name? Is it X-iom or like Xi-om

XIOM stands for Axiom and I think that the korean pronunciation is closer to the english Axiom - ˈaksēəm.
The meaning of the name is that the brand is aiming to be an axiom in TT.

M.Hoang
01-05-2019, 04:07 PM
Mizutani have used DHS long V :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:!!

RidTheKid
01-05-2019, 04:21 PM
Yes JM used it during that trick, how do you know that he uses that blade during matches? He could've borrowed someone elses blade for that sequence.

And the other players you mention, any source?

What I'm after is source criticism, something many seem to lack generally. They see something as truth if someone claim it on the internet.

There is an old video of Dima getting a couple of W968 blades from Ma Long, how do we know that Dima use them today?


Mizutani
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsND5cvh2SU/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=kw0837hltfb0

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 04:35 PM
Falck: On mytt you can see photo of innerforce limba outer with chinese black yellow alc
I had bo2 and remember that h5 long looks the same If we talk about material composition
Difference between 968 and h5 long is size head.
Mizutani has smaller head size and the wings of his personal zlc is more oval than h5 long
I know here is guy who will write the difference
Mizutani was in bad shape in 2017 and 2018, he is in better shape right now so I think he changed for h5
His backhand looks better
If you had zlc blade you will know

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 04:39 PM
Dima is more hitter than driving machine so he will use alc outer Because of gears

RidTheKid
01-05-2019, 05:20 PM
I didn't find anything on mytt, can you show me?

I own 2 W968 so I know exactly what that is.

You are still just guessing, you have no idea that JM uses that blade in matches.

You think JM suddenly gets in better shape because of a blade change? Not because he actually trained better and prepared better? There is Tokyo 2020, that might have something to do with it. The countdown to represent your country has begun. Btw the 968 is great for fh oriented players, bh is better with Vis.



Falck: On mytt you can see photo of innerforce limba outer with chinese black yellow alc
I had bo2 and remember that h5 long looks the same If we talk about material composition
Difference between 968 and h5 long is size head.
Mizutani has smaller head size and the wings of his personal zlc is more oval than h5 long
I know here is guy who will write the difference
Mizutani was in bad shape in 2017 and 2018, he is in better shape right now so I think he changed for h5
His backhand looks better
If you had zlc blade you will know

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 08:24 PM
18182

JST
01-05-2019, 09:33 PM
18182

That really is some innerlayer ALC clone but how do you know it's exactly HL5?

And on JYS: yes, he used HL5 for many years (probably some of pro versions which are normally supplied mainly to CNT but that isn't so important here) and Ice Cream was released just this month. You cannot blame him that he hasn't switched during peak of the season (especially in T League which is probably the best paying job in TT today). Blame him if he will be playing with HL5 still in summer and autumn.

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 10:11 PM
I had Fang Bo ALC, I played H301 alc, I know how chinese brand DHS put their Arylate, H301? he has money to get more premium blade, Fang Bo ALC - quality limba issue, W968 Discountined, H5 long is easier to buy, korean players, chinese superleague players, they all have H5 long.... Butterfly ALC? blue colour....
Youngsik BH player oriented
Falck? BH player oriented

181831818418185

JST
01-05-2019, 10:28 PM
I had Fang Bo ALC, I played H301 alc, I know how chinese brand DHS put their Arylate, H301? he has money to get more premium blade, Fang Bo ALC - quality limba issue, W968 Discountined, H5 long is easier to buy, korean players, chinese superleague players, they all have H5 long.... Butterfly ALC? blue colour....
Youngsik BH player oriented
Falck? BH player oriented

181831818418185

I appreciate your enthusiasm in building theories but you are still just guessing (even it is educated guess) from few photos from the internet. Colors may be shifted on that one and it can easily be blue Butterfly ALC or even ZLF/ZLC which aren't blue. If I should bet on Swedish player using such blade then Butterfly would be first, not DHS. If DHS then you can still buy "national" team versions of HL5 (W986 or even older things like N301 or W997) end even if not commercially they might do something for him (similar to Ma Long giving Dima some boxes with supposedly DHS blades during China Super league this season). So it can be anything.

Link between BH or FH domination and certain blade structure (outer limba vs. koto and ALC as outer layer or inner layer) is highly speculative and there is pretty much no way for us to "research" it from these pictures and taking look at hand full of players. You would need to get dozens or better hundreds of players, different levels, observe them for months and then maybe you can call the conclusions. So let's admit it, it's speculation which sounds nice but it's still highly speculative. Because if you keep selling these as truth there will be people coming to this thread from google search for years and it will become urban legend. This is how hoax can be born easily.

Btw. coming back to "fake" Yasaka blade photo above: I found pretty strange how it has removed bottom lens and cut the same shape hole into the blade itself. I would either expect putting Yasaka lens there (to keep the story "complete") or not wasting time with cutting into the blade (you just risk and it doesn't bother anyone if you don't plan to put the lens back). I would even expect that Yasaka can supply any weight and shape of the handle to Matthias just without the bottom cut for the lens (if he wants it like that). I could now start speculating that lens was there and he just lost it or that maker of this "custom" thought that lens will be there but then no one bothered to do it or simply that it's real Yasaka blade with experimental inner layer ALC structure which just has never been put into production. But you see, these are all useless speculation and I won't do it;)

JST
01-05-2019, 10:45 PM
18182

Btw. tracing the photo back on the internet there is long discussion on MyTT forum where people suggest it's either Yasaka Gatien Carbon (which would frame the story nicely, it has exactly the same carbon "structure" and handle!) or some Butterfly IF version. And yet again, I don't want to speculate further, there is just one photo and we can hardly find out the truth from it. I'm just showing how easily you can misinterpret something on the internet today and make it "truth".

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34187&PN=159&title=the-pros-equipment-discussion-and-questions

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 10:55 PM
its funny my english language is bad, but I understand your point of view and your mindset.
I have the same with Viscaria Infinity- its more like thicker Viscaria ALC + infinity handle made special from Butterfly's material with perfect precision- made in Japan or maybe handle is made in China because Stiga has production in China.

I know someone in Polish Superleague who buys only white Sponge from Butterfly next he glue his topsheet from Yinhe and he has his own rubber.
The same situation with Ma Te pips---- Palio 351a with butterfly white sponge

speculation= manufacturing of composite I think about AC + characteristic of white young limba+ gluing method on Falck's blade is definitely made by Chinese guy even its custom ALC Yasaka blade.

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 11:01 PM
man please, stop stop stop
I saw that discussion, first guy write H5 long he has correct view, Yasaka gatien- thicker AC carbon, older kiri core, Innerforce layer its more yellow- older wood
Innerforce layer ALC-18187
18186

JST
01-05-2019, 11:03 PM
I give up, you really like this guessing game. I'm really sorry we hijacked this thread and fans of Xiom and Hugo are reading this right now... can we like delete last 10-15 posts?;)

Konrad Bak
01-05-2019, 11:09 PM
Even Lucjan Błaszczyk has 54 degree OF his tibhar Evolution mxS or Dyjas use Spirit blade but he is on Donic team. There is No speculation, just facts

JST
01-06-2019, 12:18 AM
Even Lucjan Błaszczyk has 54 degree OF his tibhar Evolution mxS or Dyjas use Spirit blade but he is on Donic team. There is No speculation, just factsOMG. No one is saying anything about Blaszczyk's rubbers or Dyjas's blade. But Mizutani clearly uses Butterfly blade in all matches (see pictures from all T league or World Tour matches in last 6 months), the instagram video with edge bouncing is some random event probably even not using that blade for a play there. YJS uses HL5 but his signature blade was released only few days ago so no one is objecting that. And claiming Falck playing HL5 has weak evidence. Don't mix the things. If you have seen the blade in your hands or very trustworthy insider told you then explain the sources and claim it as fact. If you have one picture from the internet admit it's a speculation.

langel
01-06-2019, 06:20 AM
I think that we have a typical example of the Straw Man Fallacy here.

Tony's Table Tennis
01-06-2019, 07:16 AM
Even Lucjan Błaszczyk has 54 degree OF his tibhar Evolution mxS or Dyjas use Spirit blade but he is on Donic team. There is No speculation, just facts

Are these guys sponsored by Xiom too?, if not, please use another thread/topic
thanks

Facts
Hugo's old sponsor has made announcement that they will be using him and Simon as Leisure range brand ambassador and cannot continue to use them in Professional range.

Hugo is now sponsored by Xiom and i'm sure the package is great for both parties.
i'm sure Hugo can benefit from Xiom's sponsorship and endorsement and can help him in different ways to do better.

romanzdk
01-06-2019, 07:37 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/bd70c45b44064821f63144a83e6e0693.jpg

DUALITY of colors? = orange + violet = IceCream AZX (?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yoass
01-06-2019, 08:56 AM
How to you pronouce the brand name? Is it X-iom or like Xi-om

Google Translate pronounces it "tsee-om", when considering it Korean.

langel
01-06-2019, 09:41 AM
XIOM stands for Axiom and I think that the korean pronunciation is closer to the english Axiom - ˈaksēəm.
The meaning of the name is that the brand is aiming to be an axiom in TT.

This is from an interview with Mr. Isaac Lee /hills4ever, I believe/:

"2. CONCEPT

The name XIOM came from the word AXIOM. (It is pronounced as ‘axiom’.)
As some of you might know, axiom means new paradigm or what you call a self-evident truth that requires no proof "

bobpuls
01-06-2019, 10:01 AM
grrr changing from target pro gt will be pain in the ass ... after i saw his training with the xiom rubbers i think he will come back ... it absolutely not suits him to his stile ... and looks ridiculous ,where imho he will miss the direct nature of cornilleau target rubbers .

GusShnaps
01-06-2019, 10:18 AM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20190106%2Fbd70c45b44064821f63144a83e6e0693.jpg

DUALITY of colors? = orange + violet = IceCream AZX (?)


Sent from my Phone using Tapatalk

I think so too, the colors resemble the ones in the IceCream AZX blade

https://tabletennis-reference.com/images/racket/976_1_450.jpg

bobpuls
01-06-2019, 10:35 AM
I think he will stay with his old blade but with new handle ,... he didn't use the foco blade neither when it had his signature

langel
01-06-2019, 10:43 AM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fveggiepotluck.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2Fp1010751-w400-h400.jpg%3Fw%3D500

Konrad Bak
01-06-2019, 01:00 PM
grrr changing from target pro gt will be pain in the ass ... after i saw his training with the xiom rubbers i think he will come back ... it absolutely not suits him to his stile ... and looks ridiculous ,where imho he will miss the direct nature of cornilleau target rubbers .
I think this is the biggest reason why people use tenergy, in my opinion table tennis is too fast and there is too much information when you play and you dont have time to put Ball on the other side and this is propably the biggest reason why AzX wont be succesful in pro hands. You will have too much cons than you thought. maybe AZXi will be special one Because Limba is more elastic

I Love propably all xiom rubbers on my backhand but xiom omega vii pro is perfect and even better than commercial tenergy on my forhand and I had maybe 50-60 rubbers in my hand and its wavy when you Put It on inner force blade
he will be happy even target rubbers sometimes play even more spin than you wants

langel
01-06-2019, 03:59 PM
I think this is the biggest reason why people use tenergy, in my opinion table tennis is too fast and there is too much information when you play and you dont have time to put Ball on the other side and this is propably the biggest reason why AzX wont be succesful in pro hands. You will have too much cons than you thought. maybe AZXi will be special one Because Limba is more elastic

I Love propably all xiom rubbers on my backhand but xiom omega vii pro is perfect and even better than commercial tenergy on my forhand and I had maybe 50-60 rubbers in my hand and its wavy when you Put It on inner force blade
he will be happy even target rubbers sometimes play even more spin than you wants

What you mean by "wavy on IF blade" ?

Jesus Martinez Sanchez
01-06-2019, 06:00 PM
All the best Hugo!!

How much gain this top 20 world players?

Ioiettino
01-06-2019, 06:00 PM
Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)



Sincere congratulations, but I just want to add (by the way, I often speak about Cornilleau products, not because of national preference but because I am indeed often exposed to them due to living in this country): they are not out of competitive TT yet.

18190

Sorry for the small font. Names are Can Akkuzu, Bruna Takahashi (WR#73), Stéphanie Loeillette (WR#93), Jules Cavaille, Romain Lorentz (WR#105), Paul Gauzy, Thomas Le Breton, Damien Llorca, Charlotte and Camille Lutz - no threats collectively to the CNT, but neither "leisure" players.

I do agree that the whole thing reads slightly like Cornilleau are giving up, but it is what it is: money doesn't grow on trees. Xiom and Andro are becoming powerhouses in their own ways, but marketing plays a big role (I assume there have been substancial investments at some point for both of them) and national markets are a thing. It is clear from the list of players that Cornilleau are aiming at such a sustainable national base first (and a pinch at Brazil with Bruna Takahashi, too, and of course Hugo until now) but taking over Europe is a different thing - not sure we should even mention Asia.

Still a fair compromise for all parties I guess, both players had been supported for so long it feels like the decent thing to do (not yet for free, I know) that their image will still be used for Cornilleau leisure equipment.



And best of luck to both!! I don't mean to sound like a Cornilleau fanboy and I have long been over national preferences (not to mention my beloved Xiom Offensive S), it is more a case of supporting the smaller manufacturers and overall diversity.

FruitLoop
01-06-2019, 06:59 PM
grrr changing from target pro gt will be pain in the ass ... after i saw his training with the xiom rubbers i think he will come back ... it absolutely not suits him to his stile ... and looks ridiculous ,where imho he will miss the direct nature of cornilleau target rubbers .

They are that different? There is such a range of Xiom rubbers with different properties and they are made in same factory as Cornilleau.

Maybe they get him using the Ice Cream blade handle. But he's going to want a 5 ply with hardwood outer. It's hard to hide that from EJs too unless you use edge tape.

bobpuls
01-06-2019, 07:15 PM
They are that different? There is such a range of Xiom rubbers with different properties and they are made in same factory as Cornilleau.

Maybe they get him using the Ice Cream blade handle. But he's going to want a 5 ply with hardwood outer. It's hard to hide that from EJs too unless you use edge tape.
there are many players who don`t do well changes of blade , the same is for Hugo(imho) .. it is not simple to just made a blade with the same wood , the process and glue is also important ...And i do not say that xiom blades are bad blades, but some people are picky ... and Hugo did not play with his official Foco blade.
And dyes they are made in the same factory ,but there is something different on each of them ... the sponge can be made from esn but the topsheet is tuned by Michelin and is really different then Xiomm topsheets.

AndySmith
01-07-2019, 01:25 PM
He's using rubbers with black sponges at least here (pause at 02m00s):


https://youtu.be/xqf-1lwZZPY?t=120

Looks like his current Corny blade - thin black centre ply.

Seems to be playing well. Hard to compare with recent big wins of course.

yoass
01-07-2019, 01:32 PM
He's using rubbers with black sponges at least here (pause at 02m00s)

Yup! That must be Vega Pro, then. :-)

AndySmith
01-07-2019, 01:38 PM
Yup! That must be Vega Pro, then. :-)

Haaaa! Definitely. ;)

Or....Xiom just got ESN to dye his usual rubbers black. Or he used a marker pen. The possibilities are endless!

DonnOlsen
01-07-2019, 02:12 PM
Hi,

Speaking of translations, I just did a Google translate on one of the Japanese links in this thread and Tenergy was translated as Tennessee, which is a state in the United States.

Thanks,

yoass
01-07-2019, 02:24 PM
Speaking of translations, I just did a Google translate on one of the Japanese links in this thread and Tenergy was translated as Tennessee, which is a state in the United States.

It's commonly translated as "Tenazi" in tabletennis-reference.com reviews. There's good stuff there, if you can read through sometimes slightly derailed automatic translations.

FruitLoop
01-07-2019, 03:48 PM
Is that just the way Japanese people pronounce Tenergy? Does it have no meaning to them in Japanese?

I always assumed it was table tennis energy, tenergy.

A pretty cool name compared to Dignics which sounds like a nickname for a tick or something. "Damn dignics again, I'm getting eaten alive here!"

zeio
01-07-2019, 04:30 PM
The word Tenergy, when transcribed in Japanese, katakana in this case, is テナジー, te-na-ji/zi-long sound symbol.

Except for the schwa sound, it sounds close enough to English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0le7wntDyIA&t=110

Tenergy is a portmanteau of Tension and energy. I believe most people are aware of this already. Dignics is likely another example.

https://www.butterfly.co.jp/story/front_runner/vol1_03.html

『テナジー』というネーミングは、「テンション」と「エナジー」を組み合わせたものだ。

vossi39
01-07-2019, 06:43 PM
Yup! That must be Vega Pro, then. :-)

Nice idea...On his first match with a new contract, he plays a 5 year old rubber, while advertising for the latest stuff Omega 7 (has a black sponge as well). He played Omega 7 Tour to be precise. Has been confirmed by Xiom Europe on Instagram.

yogi_bear
01-07-2019, 07:04 PM
Let us keep the discussion on topic, shall we?

GusShnaps
01-08-2019, 10:33 AM
1823118232

Xiom posted this on their Instagram. They also posted this video:
https://youtu.be/sdTLoLi_TR4

DonnOlsen
01-08-2019, 11:44 AM
Hi,

Thank you for the reminder note on the portmanteau concerning Tenergy. So now, do we run a contest guessing the portmanteau of Dignics? [Though no good at this at all, I've been trying and failing to guess anything that would be a reasonable speculation.]

Thanks

yoass
01-08-2019, 12:21 PM
So now, do we run a contest guessing the portmanteau of Dignics? [Though no good at this at all, I've been trying and failing to guess anything that would be a reasonable speculation.]

I'd say, "Dynamic Techniques".

langel
01-08-2019, 01:04 PM
This thread is not about Tenergy and/or Dignics.
There are enough threads about that.

Konrad Bak
01-09-2019, 05:17 AM
no offence, people sleep but Xiom Omega VII PRO for me looks like the hottest rubber at the moment. Innerforce type of blade gives them special kick and its play very very special... The Trajectory is high but everything goes on table its something like Tenergy with better feeling and better dynamic.
Its playing like slower version of Tenergy on booster without boosting.
Ice Cream blades looks overhyped
2 different material won't work in pro hands so people will open eyes.
2 different opinion or just facts...

langel
01-09-2019, 07:36 AM
My feeling is that the trajectory of O7Pro is not high and its not slower than Tenergy.
What do you mean by "slower, but boosted Tenergy"?

Konrad Bak
01-09-2019, 10:26 AM
very easy to brush ball and add spin
I used Quadri Aruna OFF blade so maybe the feeling of throw is wrong

langel
01-09-2019, 10:55 AM
very easy to brush ball and add spin
I used Quadri Aruna OFF blade so maybe the feeling of throw is wrong

Ok, yes - Omega 7 Pro is very spinny, but not more than Tenergy. Generating spin more easy - yes.
About the blades - I've tested it on Rossi Emotion, which is slightly flexyer than Aruna, and yes - with it slower and midstrength loops have higher trajectory than with a stiffer blade, but still not high but middle, and once you engage the carbon inner it flatterns very fast. In fact I like it.

yogi_bear
01-09-2019, 11:58 AM
Omega vii pro is very fast. Only difference is it is very fogiving on mistakes. Also, it has a long trajectory.

RidTheKid
01-09-2019, 12:23 PM
OVII Pro is fast, reminds me of T64. Spin is better on Tenergy though.

Suga D
01-09-2019, 03:23 PM
This thread is not about Tenergy and/or Dignics.
There are enough threads about that.

Hahaha. That this is coming from you is really crackin' me up.
[Emoji23]
Just gotta luv this. This must be some special type of humour.

Now you probably can relate how others feel when they ask about tacky hybrid rubbers and someone starts recommending Vega rubbers and XSF balls.

Man, this really was funny!
Especially after you then participated in the hijack by writing the following lines.


Ok, yes - Omega 7 Pro is very spinny, but not more than Tenergy. Generating spin more easy - yes.
About the blades - I've tested it on Rossi Emotion, which is slightly flexyer than Aruna, and yes - with it slower and midstrength loops have higher trajectory than with a stiffer blade, but still not high but middle, and once you engage the carbon inner it flatterns very fast. In fact I like it.

Goodness gracious

zeio
01-09-2019, 03:44 PM
To push this thread along.

What does Xiom have to offer that's comparable to D05, now that we know O7P is still behind T05?

langel
01-09-2019, 03:52 PM
Hahaha. That this is coming from you is really crackin' me up.
[Emoji23]
Now you probably can relate how others feel when they ask about tacky hybrid rubbers and someone starts recommending Vega rubbers and XSF balls.



I can't remember to be recommending Vega rubbers in a thread for tacky hybrids, except Vega China maybe, but usually I prefer to recommend Tau instead. But I remember that I recommended Omega 5 Asia to a player asking for eventual transfer tacky to tensor, and I would do it again.
What about the seamless balls? I comment balls in the balls' threads, don't I? And yes - for me they are the best, as well as for many others and its well visible in that threads.

langel
01-09-2019, 03:54 PM
To push this thread along.

What does Xiom have to offer that's comparable to D05, now that we know O7P is still behind T05?

How do we know that?
I think that its better in some things.

zeio
01-09-2019, 04:04 PM
There you have it. This thread has outlived its usefulness. The reason it's still on the front page is thanks to the D05 hype. Just saying.

langel
01-09-2019, 04:05 PM
Man, this really was funny!
Especially after you then participated in the hijack by writing the following lines.



Goodness gracious

Why hijacking? My post is comparison answer to a statement and its all about Xiom.
My initial remark to stay on the thread background was provoked by post #109.

Suga D
01-09-2019, 04:15 PM
I can't remember to be recommending Vega rubbers in a thread for tacky hybrids, except Vega China maybe, but usually I prefer to recommend Tau instead. But I remember that I recommended Omega 5 Asia to a player asking for eventual transfer tacky to tensor, and I would do it again.
What about the seamless balls? I comment balls in the balls' threads, don't I? And yes - for me they are the best, as well as for many others and its well visible in that threads.

Oh well, no need for explanations, for those that are capable of reading.
;)
But looking into a mirror from time to time can be pretty helpful.

And yeah, if you ask me, you can put your Adham-Sharara-memorial-balls where the sun never shines. They're just as wacky as the G40+ but that's just my personal opinion.
Heck, there was a time when i even liked the G40+ more, but that's a different story.

Anyhow, got carried away a bit, so back to topic.

Congrats to Hugo for the new contract. Hope it's gonna be everything he expected from it.
And also hope seeing him around for promotional reasons since his new sponsor is located in my area.

langel
01-09-2019, 05:09 PM
And yeah, if you ask me, you can put your Adham-Sharara-memorial-balls where the sun never shines.

I always keep my balls away from direct sunshine, but not exactly the way you ask me, thank you.
About the mirror - it would be better for you to share your rudeness with it.

phorkyas
01-09-2019, 05:43 PM
Funnily though found some descriptions on golf equipment that compares pretty well to EJaism in TT:

"No athletes rely on their equipment quite like golfers. Picking which sneakers to wear or what bat to swing are relatively simple choices compared with selecting 14 clubs. Variables like grip material, shaft strength, and club length further complicate the process, and that’s without even considering which ball to use."

Later in http://grantland.com/features/a-mysterious-physicist-golf-club-dr-v/ there's also this:

"Anyone who plays sports understands this phenomenon. We want to use the same clubs, shoes, balls, bats, and everything else as the pros because they’re the best, and we want to give ourselves every chance to play as well as them. It’s as much about confidence as it is quality equipment.

This isn’t just common sense — social scientists have actually studied how using “professional” gear affects amateurs’ performance. In 2011, researchers at the University of Virginia laid out a putting mat, a ball, and a putter, and invited 41 undergraduates to take part in an experiment. The students were asked to do two things: Take 10 test putts and then try to draw the hole to scale. Half were told nothing about the putter’s origins. The rest were told it once belonged to a PGA Tour player. You already know what happened next. The students who thought they were using a pro’s club sank more putts and drew the hole larger than the control group. The social scientists running the experiment must have known that what they were witnessing was pure superstition. How else to describe the process by which years of practice and skill can be transmitted from an expert to an amateur through the simple transfer of an object? But because they’re academics, they use a different term — positive contagion. It’s like the placebo effect for sports."


In golf there are no equipment secrets. Aside from custom fitting, you can go out and buy Rory McIlroys Why exact equipment he actually uses. Why the secrecy in TT?

Sent from my ZTE Grand S II LTE using Tapatalk

NextLevel
01-09-2019, 06:45 PM
very easy to brush ball and add spin
I used Quadri Aruna OFF blade so maybe the feeling of throw is wrong

That combination was the best one for me as well... O7 pro with Aruna blade.

Suga D
01-09-2019, 08:10 PM
I always keep my balls away from direct sunshine, but not exactly the way you ask me, thank you.
About the mirror - it would be better for you to share your rudeness with it.

Dude..... I must admit, this one was pretty good.
[Emoji106]
Some call it rudeness others call it mirror, while other others probably would find it insulting to be silenced by someone who's pretty good at derailing himself.
[Emoji2]

Just pulling your leg, man. If you think it's not contradictive to call out others for derailing while participating at the same time, then ok.
You obviously see it differently.

But if you don't mind i'll get back to the topic now, because I really wonder if Calderano will play with the AZXi or if he will stick to all wood.
My feeling tells me during the season he might stay with aĺlwood, but time will tell.

Mohammad Ahmed
01-19-2019, 07:49 PM
Answers to your questions,

Cornilleau didn't give up on table tennis. They are very much in table tennis!
It is just that they want to concentrate more on Leisure than Professional.
XIOM as one of the strongest professional table tennis brand, Hugo signed a professional contract with XIOM. :)

As for the equipment, he is already using our rubber.
As for the blade we are still working on it.

We are very pleased to have him joined our TEAM XIOM.

is hugo using xiom equipment or his former cornelleu equipment?

7sagittarius7
01-19-2019, 08:21 PM
In the picture from today's match at Hungarian Open, you can clearly see that Hugo uses XIOM Omega VII rubber.

18305

Jimbob MacInbred
01-19-2019, 08:22 PM
is hugo using xiom equipment or his former cornelleu equipment?

At least in the singles he was still playing with his Cornilleau Gatien Absolum plus Foco Off+ handles and with Xiom rubbers
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ittfworld/39837943603/in/photostream/

I did some nice screenshots myself, but I'm too stupid to upload it...:(

romanzdk
01-19-2019, 09:57 PM
Am I the only one who thinks Hugo is not fully familiar with the new rubbers? In todays match against Wang Ch. it seems to me he made a lot of unforced errors with push or block.


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