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View Full Version : Which long pimples for modern defence?



jmillsy2
01-04-2012, 08:18 PM
Guys, I need some help.
In April I changed to Grass d.TecS 1.2mm from Curl P1r 1.0mm - my results with both have been mixed, although I would say perhaps marginally better with the TSP, but they've been good with both.

So, which would your recommend? P1r or dtecs?
NB I play grass DTecs on a stiga defensive nct at the moment- I played with the p1r on a matsu****a pro.
Recommendations?
Feel free to use this thread for a general discussion on long pimples too :)

exit_2
01-05-2012, 01:32 AM
What about your feelings? :) I am playing with Curl P1-r and it is really good LP (I am using it with Weixing blade). For chopper and modern defender. Not good for someone close to table. And it is not good for attacking. I think this is why Hyuk changed from P1-r to DTecs. But maybe not :) Can you please write how do you feel DTecs? I never tried it.

jmillsy2
01-05-2012, 07:23 AM
Dtecs is fast, so play it on a really slow blade. It is better for attacking and blocking than p1r but is less solid when defending. Also I find it sucks at touch and can be quite easy to read the spin on the ball. I'm thinking of changing to the p1r but I'm still not sure. I think joo went to DTecs because it is better at attacking and he didn't need to worry about how solid in defence it was- the mans a brick wall :)

Anders
01-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Try the Akkadi pips on the Matsu****a blade.. Perfect combination for modern defensive play ;)

azlan
01-05-2012, 12:02 PM
I don't play with pips, but I sure encountered many players using them throughout the years. Some were modified ones, and some were the genuine article. Of some of you guys remember a thread about Vietcong OX, well that's a good example of a modified long pip. It is illegal, and I've played against that too.

So far, I find D-Tecs are the most destructive of the lot. It allows the player to be on the offensive when you least expected. No doubt it requires a slow blade to domesticate it, but if you are a player with an excellent technique, any medium to medium fast blade will work well for you.

jmillsy2
01-05-2012, 04:16 PM
I am ok with sticking with the dtecs but am weighing up my options should i decide to change. i feel the p1r would be th best replacement. i find with the dtecs that if i play a player that knows how to ply long pimples eg easily loops my pushes, does the p1r generate more "own spin" ie is it more grippy? i dont remember having the same problem with the p1r and i think my backhand attack would be good enough to hit no spin loops with p1r s a often hit them off the end with dtecs, attack or chop. thoughts?
ive never come across modified lps before, although there is a guy at my club who puts them in the sun to make them frictionles..... they seem easier to play when frictionless! is this right?

azlan
01-05-2012, 05:09 PM
What you implying is that P1r is slower compared to Dtecs, and I have to say that you're spot on mate. The grippy part I am not so sure. I think most long pips players like to graze the balls to induced movement on the ball in mid air, and P1r is excellent with that. Maybe because it has softer pips which allows the pips to bend and flex the instant the ball hits it. Also, since they're softer, it is easier to control. If you find Dtecs are too wild, P1r is an option. Another is the Bomb Talent Long Pips and Palio Power Dragon Biotech.

With regard the modified pips, yes you're right about them being frictionless. Since I play with heavy top spins most of the time, I find that the ball that comes back to me has a massive under spin. The guy just have to block my shots over the table. Some of the times, the ball would just loop high over the net after blocking my top spin, and bounces back to his side of the table! Ridiculous! :)

yurybarquero
01-05-2012, 06:20 PM
With regard the modified pips, yes you're right about them being frictionless. Since I play with heavy top spins most of the time, I find that the ball that comes back to me has a massive under spin. The guy just have to block my shots over the table. Some of the times, the ball would just loop high over the net after blocking my top spin, and bounces back to his side of the table! Ridiculous! :)

Do you have any video where this happened.... it would be nice to wacht it...

jmillsy2
01-05-2012, 06:36 PM
Ah when I play long pimples my loop turns into a more female style of dealing with a chopper- placement and spin rather than power and of course smart play. It might be helpful to have more control as my bh push does fly long often & DTecs isn't too good at short play. Then again it may be that I'm still plying my trade as I'm only 15 and have only been chopping for only 2 years! I used to play ox but I hate it so now I need sponge. Anyone know what nittaku screw is like? I'm not thinking of it, just would be interested to know about it. What rubber do we think for a foregand then? ATM I use hurricane 3 and I think it's ok. What are your thoughts?

azlan
01-05-2012, 06:39 PM
I don't have the actual match, but this is the same guy playing against the Malaysian No1 (in red).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuemwHtiaGc&feature=related


And this is the 2nd set.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJ5kfBpSSM&feature=related

phillypong
01-05-2012, 08:09 PM
Well , these long pips are not helping table tennis as a sport, they can also be treated to be frictionless (or become so after a long usage).
I am convinced that this material should be banned by ittf because it doesn't bring anything useful or beautiful to our sport, just strangely playing users and frustrated opponents who play with non reversing effect rubbers.

Just have a look at the sets posted by azlan, i can not imagin the pimple player or the opponent or the spectators finding this an improvement over normal rubbers. There are really a lot of utterly STUPID looking points being made here (by both players and due to the stupid weird effect of the pimples) !
Long pimples : rubbish for table tennis !

yurybarquero
01-05-2012, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the video Azlan.. I can tell that after the he blocks the loops the ball comes back with heavy backspin.. but I was actually expecting to see the ball bouncing back to his table after he blocks the loop and it bounces on the opponent side... I guess it did not happen because the Malaysian┬┤s loops must be faster than yours since you mainly focus on loading the ball with heavy topspin the ball must come back to you with way more spin than Malaysian guy was receiving the ball back and I am assuming that ball bounces back on your side closer to the net allowing the ball to bounce back to his side.....
I hope it made sense and correct me if I am wrong...

jmillsy2
01-05-2012, 08:42 PM
Phillyphong- pips were around way before inverted, and most top players do not lose the "silly points" that you are moaning about. Personally I find matches between joo se hyuk and any top ten player (except Ma Lin and zhang jike) sometimes they are even better than other matches between top ten players! I believe of you wish to complain about pips, there is already a thread related to that subject.

Anders
01-05-2012, 10:48 PM
Well , these long pips are not helping table tennis as a sport, they can also be treated to be frictionless (or become so after a long usage).
I am convinced that this material should be banned by ittf because it doesn't bring anything useful or beautiful to our sport, just strangely playing users and frustrated opponents who play with non reversing effect rubbers.

Just have a look at the sets posted by azlan, i can not imagin the pimple player or the opponent or the spectators finding this an improvement over normal rubbers. There are really a lot of utterly STUPID looking points being made here (by both players and due to the stupid weird effect of the pimples) !
Long pimples : rubbish for table tennis !

Okey, let's not get grumpy here.. If you ain't able to play against LP's, then it's mostly your own fault. Not the LP's unless they're modified! Just learn to play against them, and stop complaining about them. I used to say the same, but then I learned to play better so I stopped complaining. If a LP-player beats me now, I know that I did my best and that he just plays smarter than me. No "stupid" mistakes, just a defensive strategy and a table tennis masterpiece! :)

azlan
01-06-2012, 06:23 AM
Thanks for the video Azlan.. I can tell that after the he blocks the loops the ball comes back with heavy backspin.. but I was actually expecting to see the ball bouncing back to his table after he blocks the loop and it bounces on the opponent side... I guess it did not happen because the Malaysian┬┤s loops must be faster than yours since you mainly focus on loading the ball with heavy topspin the ball must come back to you with way more spin than Malaysian guy was receiving the ball back and I am assuming that ball bounces back on your side closer to the net allowing the ball to bounce back to his side.....
I hope it made sense and correct me if I am wrong...

You're spot on Yury, against this guy you really need to put pace in your topspin, speed and spin. I made a mistake once when I just loop the ball with heavy topspin. He happily blocked it, and the ball bounced back into his side of the table. I remembered staring in amazement.;)
The guy very rarely gets to the QF or SF of a medium level tourney, coz he will encounter better players. In the video, he was playing the Malaysian no1, Syakirin...and Syakirin was just messing about with him.

YosuaYosan
01-08-2012, 07:48 AM
D.TecS is much more dangerous.. Long-term..

Ahh yess that Vietcong OX is a modified GioQiu rubber. As you said Sir Az, such heavy reliance on pips won't bring him nowhere too far.
I once feign-trade with the guy. He is very aggressive lols :p

jmillsy2
01-08-2012, 09:44 AM
D.TecS is much more dangerous.. Long-term..

Ahh yess that Vietcong OX is a modified GioQiu rubber. As you said Sir Az, such heavy reliance on pips won't bring him nowhere too far.
I once feign-trade with the guy. He is very aggressive lols :p


I'm still leaning towards p1r, having read reviews. I played my coach today who use to be an England international, and my chops were almost always just going long. I thing the extra control of the tsp will help me with this problem.

reymar789
01-14-2012, 12:19 AM
TSP CURL P1-R is best for its deceptive spin, one of my opponents used it to me and when he cut it and i was going to loop it i thought it has a backspin on it but it was a topspin so it made me an error and out the ball, so from there i was able to adjust and beat him.. :P
and from that time i asked him to lend it to me for a short time, and after that that beautiful long pips rubber convinced me to buy for my own.!! Its really deceptive!

YosuaYosan
01-14-2012, 05:08 AM
btw I am using the more forgiving and cheaper alternative to P1R with only slightly lower rubber ability.
DOUBLE FISH 1615 :D

GrumpyJoe
01-14-2012, 09:09 AM
I have used both. It depends on what you want from your LP. If all you do is chop? P1r is very hard to beat. If you like to throw in a surprise attack once in awhile stick with the D.tecs. But understand this. If you attack too often with the D.tecs your opponent will get a better understanding of how they work. Meaning they act a lot like inverted. I could do a BH LP loop from 6-7 feet off the table no problem with the D.tecs. But after 2 or 3 times my opponent would counter loop right back at me. Kinda defeats the purpose of having LP.

IMO if you are going to chop with LP? Then chop. If you want to attack with your BH? Use SP. They are more consistent.

As far as Joo using D.tecs? I don't know. Maybe he got some money for using the stuff. But how often do you see him attack with his BH? I have only seen him do it when the ball is really high over the table. How often does that happen?

I really like my P1r. I cannot see me changing any time soon.

And frictionless/treated LP? I have very strong feelings about that stuff. Very bad for the sport. If you get caught at a sanctioned tourney? A fine should be imposed and maybe a suspension from tourney play.

azlan
01-24-2012, 02:35 AM
Hi SC...I guess ever since the Hungarian Open, you'll be switching to P1r. :)

YosuaYosan
01-24-2012, 09:00 AM
Yeah Sir Az is right.
Heaviest backspin thru D.TecS
Epic spin manipulation thru P1R the truest and time tested modern defence long pips rubber :D

Heard about the new TSP Curl P4? Its called the ideal rubber for modern defence by Koji :)
I guess I wanna try P1R woohoo!

WiWa
01-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Congrats on ur 2000th post Yosua ;)

YosuaYosan
01-24-2012, 07:45 PM
Congrats on ur 2000th post Yosua ;)

Ohohooo I don't even realize it HAHA!! :D
Thanks WiWa! I'll be waiting for your 2000th ;)

WiWa
01-24-2012, 08:04 PM
Ohohooo I don't even realize it HAHA!! :D
Thanks WiWa! I'll be waiting for your 2000th ;)

Hehe might take a while :p

jmillsy2
01-24-2012, 08:59 PM
Hi SC...I guess ever since the Hungarian Open, you'll be switching to P1r. :)

Haha, bang on :) I was going to anyway, but joo has really helped to sway my choice :)

Lorre
01-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Hi SC...I guess ever since the Hungarian Open, you'll be switching to P1r. :)

Is it confirmed then that he's playing the P1-R again?

azlan
01-25-2012, 06:12 AM
Is it confirmed then that he's playing the P1-R again?

I guess if it is not broken, why fix it..:)

YosuaYosan
01-25-2012, 11:03 AM
Is it confirmed then that he's playing the P1-R again?

Nope, not yet Sir, it is still a probability.

Lorre
01-25-2012, 02:50 PM
I guess if it is not broken, why fix it..:)

But if it was never broken, why replacing it then in the first place?:cool:

YosuaYosan
01-26-2012, 10:52 AM
But if it was never broken, why replacing it then in the first place?:cool:

I believe its the 'disease' called as EJ Sir hahaa :p

azlan
01-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Yeah, I mean if he really was using P1r at the Hungarian, why would he change? But if it wasn't P1r, why would he change? That rubber was excellent for him...EJ Yosua????

YosuaYosan
01-31-2012, 02:18 PM
Yeah, I mean if he really was using P1r at the Hungarian, why would he change? But if it wasn't P1r, why would he change? That rubber was excellent for him...EJ Yosua????

:)
EJ stands for Equipment Junkie or Junking.
Now I know that you could understand what it means Sir Az :D

jmillsy2
01-31-2012, 08:33 PM
OK guys, new dilemma:
I have ordered p1r in 1.0mm from bribar-hopefully it turns up this week but who knows! My new one is:
I currently play with hurricane III on a 1.8mm sponge in red. Im thinking of changing it to something a bit softer- has anyone tried TIBHAR Speedy Spin? thats the one im thinking of trying.
Am I being an idiot? Which rubber would u recommend that is similar to hurricane but perhaps a bit softer & spinner??? I am still only 15 so please bear this in mind- I cnat go spending a load of cash on a rubber I don't like :( so-soft, spinny about the same speed as H3 on a slow blade.
HELP!!!

jmillsy2
01-31-2012, 09:36 PM
Another rubber I'm thinking of is STIGA MENDO 1.5 mm? Anyone used this?

azlan
02-01-2012, 04:08 AM
Hi SC :) coincidentally I used to use the Mendo, and I really liked it. Top rubber I might say. But used the max sheet. If you have a defensive blade, why are you using such a thin rubber?

Another cheap rubber but extremely good is the LKT PRO XT and XP rubber. Soft and spinny, it'll be perfect for you.

http://www.presports.com/lkt-pro-xt-rubber-p-698.html
http://www.presports.com/lkt-pro-xp-rubber-p-245.html

Read the review on the website above, and I am sure you will find it really attractive. Loads of defensive players here uses them.

YosuaYosan
02-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Hands down to Tibhar Legend Destroyer, Sir Super Chopper :)

jmillsy2
02-01-2012, 07:20 PM
Hi SC :) coincidentally I used to use the Mendo, and I really liked it. Top rubber I might say. But used the max sheet. If you have a defensive blade, why are you using such a thin rubber?

Another cheap rubber but extremely good is the LKT PRO XT and XP rubber. Soft and spinny, it'll be perfect for you.

http://www.presports.com/lkt-pro-xt-rubber-p-698.html
http://www.presports.com/lkt-pro-xp-rubber-p-245.html

Read the review on the website above, and I am sure you will find it really attractive. Loads of defensive players here uses them.

I think if i do change, i will have to go with mendo as stiga sponsor me and its bad enough that 1 of my rubbers isnt stiga, let alone 2 :) i have a thin sponge because my attack is good but my forehand defence isnt quite up to it at the moment- i need softer sponge for nice looping and a bit of a higher throw angle than h3 and i think a 1.5mm sponge will give me control in exchange for speed, but keeping the spinny characteristics :) any updates on Joo's new rubber??? my p1r arrived today :D

tenergy05.com
02-29-2012, 12:38 AM
I don't usually use pimples but here is my first attempt to incorporate c8 lp into my game. I have improved a lot since then. This video is about 5 sessions ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48nmp13snmc

Lorre
02-29-2012, 09:44 AM
I don't usually use pimples but here is my first attempt to incorporate c8 lp into my game. I have improved a lot since then. This video is about 5 sessions ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48nmp13snmc

Nice vid!:) You don't play bad with the long pip, but off course your friend plays with you like a long pip player likes to be played. It might be interesting to see what you do with other styles. Great forehand btw!

John_Pish
02-26-2013, 06:22 PM
not sure if anyone else said this, and it does depend on your style with the pips.
but just as a side note, you will get quite a bit more spin reversal with no sponge

Dreamyee
07-13-2014, 04:53 PM
DTecs is good at attacking