How to BH drive kill?

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I want to learn in more depth how to perform a BH drive when the ball is somewhat high and slow paced coming to your BH side. It is usually the result of a bad block from the opponent and the ball comes higher and slower to you than usual. Watch this video of the stroke I'm talking about: at 1:48 mark. http://youtu.be/np4wQY6a5Dg How do you manage to get a lot of power with such a short stroke
 
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You need to move out a little more so you have space. Take the ball at the highest point. Make the elbow steady and work with forearm and wrist. Have the racket high, at the same high as the ball so you can loop throught the ball. If you have the racket under the ball you need to loop upwards to hit the ball and then you get an arch with spin. When you want to to kill the ball you want little less spin since spin is slow. Try to wait for the ball and contact it close to your body, if you extend the arm and take the ball to early you will get no power. I would say that it is easier to loop hard with an small explosive motion, many players have a longer stroke but those are harder to have as explosive. You want to try time well, accelerate and explode just at the moment at impact, not before or after, so you get as much energy in the ball as possible. I think this is most important in tabletennis, to get as much energy as possible in the ball. How it looks is not as important.

I think you need to practice this shot a bit so you will get the timing and learn to explode at the right point. Multiball will proably be good to do.

If you have not played for long i think this shot will be very difficult and will take a while to learn. It will take shorter time if you have a good coach. Maybe you can upload a video so we can see how it looks.
 
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It is all about short area whip and explosion. You get that with relaxed loose muscles that use the body and/or muscles to create initial kinetic energy, then you amplify it with each sequence of explosion.

You will need bat up and elbow in front like Lula sez. I also have the same outlook as Lula in that I feel it is much easier and natural to use a short area whip. You can generate FH smash power with a real short stroke on BH if you do it right. Longer strokes take even more precise timing and it can all go bad if one small part is off.

Kim Jung Hoon also frequently advocates moving to ball to get it in the impact zone or wait for ball to come to impact zone and use the right part of impact zone.

A short step towards ball gives the most initial energy (very intuitive and supporting of a quick whip), but you can get it started with a short hip and then arm, you can do it also without stepping by moving upper/lower arm to impact zone and stopping upper arm (to let lower arm keep moving and amplify the power from there)

If you do not step or move both parts of arm to impact zone (in this case you are waiting for ball to come to your position in the impact zone.) then you do a Brett Clark kind of checkmark whip (relax, do a small movement towards you and accelerate forward) with lower arm to start the energy and amplify it with arm snap short explosion, wrist short explosion, and firming up at impact of wrist.
 
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What's going on in the video is topspin.
A drive-kill is something I just watched coach Tao Li do:

 
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OK... what coach is describing is a compromise…

the player is in a block position and needs to add power. Coach is assuming player wants safety, so he is going for direct contact to ball on the same plane and part of impact zone. This is safe and the large lower arm whip an follow allow for direct impact and more power. This is easy to implement from block position, but it isn't a kill shot, just a stronger drive.

Coach is getting maybe 50% of potential power from this shot... again, it isn't technique for max power/spin... it is an easy to adapt shot when you are in a block position and want some more juice to the ball. Often, this 50% power this close to table is enough to win points if placed right... so it is powerful enough.
 
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OK... what coach is describing is a compromise…

the player is in a block position and needs to add power. Coach is assuming player wants safety, so he is going for direct contact to ball on the same plane and part of impact zone. This is safe and the large lower arm whip an follow allow for direct impact and more power. This is easy to implement from block position, but it isn't a kill shot, just a stronger drive.

Coach is getting maybe 50% of potential power from this shot... again, it isn't technique for max power/spin... it is an easy to adapt shot when you are in a block position and want some more juice to the ball. Often, this 50% power this close to table is enough to win points if placed right... so it is powerful enough.

I don't exactly understand what you meant, but I know that balls like he's doing with the 'superblock' are very, very difficult to return. You can't really just block them because they have no spin so they go in the net unless you open your racket just right, and if you open your racket enough to block them properly they're very likely to fly out because of sheer power, so you have to spin them back, but they're so fast...

That's what I mean by killshot, at least.
 
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lightzy,

that shot Coach Li is showing is not a real powerful shot, but since it can be a sudden decision and it is close to the table, it can be a point winner or high pressure shot done in that manner.

One does not need all that long arm to whip into a ball. Coach is showing it as a way to directly impact the ball safe and add enough power for that winner or pressure.... he is showing medium force of arm and a direct strike of ball that is safe and a variation of choice from a block position.

When coach is showing a faster, more forcefully struck ball from that shot, he is accelerating his arm more and is really firming up on the grip at impact. Of course the ball will go faster when he does that.

However, I will bet lunch Coach Li knows and uses a lot of other ways to pound the ball for a winner using WAY less arm close to the table... and these ways are gunna be 2x or more powerful.

If you are faced with a very flat and very speedy incoming ball.... yes, you can still block it. The way to do it is to stick your bat out there and have a VERY loose grip on the bat. You will get the ball back. If player is good, he will be ready and pound it again... but at least you got it back and didn't give up the point... he still has to land the next shot. You are still in better shape.

Another way it to take the ball right off the bounce with a loose grip and go through the ball a little. This will be a mini counter topspin. It will take some skill and practice to consistently get to the ball that early, but that is a possible return.

Another way to allow the ball to come on the rise... hopefully above net level. You stick out the bat and grip firm (to avoid the bat shaking and lose placement control) (and to give back pace) and point bat where you want it to go. This will be like a counter smash... even if you did not do a swing. Your grip pressure will control the rebound.

The last two are more aggressive and inherently less safe options. First option of block and hope (with very loose hand off bounce) is MUCH more instinctively easier to do and is a very safe option. Often, an opponent will be surprised you just handled their best shot with ease... others will attack you again... but at least you stayed in point and made them work for it moar.
 
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Maybe the idea is to make an exaggerated motion and hold the arm up instead of recovering just for the sake of clarity for whoever's watching, and also to demonstrate how it's just one step up from a block, to which you can then add more and more power.

That said, there are indeed many ways to play a backhand. There are also vids where he shows the backhand loopkill. But what he is showing here is a ball that I will probably never be able to return unless I'm off the table, which is quite good enough for me :)

I mean, look at the ball at 01:36, that's what I'm talking about. That's a shot to win a point with. I haven't yet met anyone who can confidently return a shot like that in a game.
That said, that shot is a lot more difficult than he makes it look. It's probably one of the most difficult shots I think, given that you're not using spin and have to judge acceleration, incoming spin, angle and grip stiffness exactly right. FZD uses this kind of shot a lot btw. The full extension backhand
 
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if the ball is really high and slow (from a bad block for example), the best answer for most players is to move and play a FH kill

but i understand what you mean, I love to kill those balls with my BH.

The first thing is to WAIT for the ball to come in your hit zone. Its not necessary to rush to the ball. Use the extra time (from the ball being slow) to get in a good position and balance, take the backswing in advance, with the wrist turned inside, and release. adjust your feet in direction of where you're going to shoot. if you go cross court (the best option - or middle at least) then your body should be facing where you're shooting and your feet should be like 30 deg angle to the baseline. Yes you're telling to your opponent where you're going to aim, but you will be doing a powerful kill, on an easy ball, no chance for him normally !

you can use the wrist at impact for extra spin and power but normally just the big swing with the whole arm excluding the wrist should be enough to make a good kill shot.
 
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Maybe we disagree about what a powerful finishing shot is defined.

The BH shot Coach Li is doing around the timeframe you mentioned (1:36) is truly maybe half his power, likely 40% or less. I hit a BH flat drive much harder using maybe 10-20% of his arm motion. I am sure Coach Li can equal or exceed my BH power.

Back to blocking such a shot... the basic block will do it... but you will need to have a very loose grip and do your best to have the ball hit the CENTER of the bat... so bat doesn't "shake" and have ball rebound in a different direction than intended. That is a benefit of a heavier bat... better blocking for us amateurs.

The shot Coach Li does can be counter looped off the bounce (get bat to ball, be loose grip, go through ball with short stroke short whip, like real tiny... stay loose)... or it can hard driven right back where it came from. (Allow ball to come up on rise over net height, use a short stroke with medium or firm grip and make solid direct contact)

If you are not close to the table and someone gives you one of those, just take a step to the side to get to ball if needed, hold out arm and bat to meet the ball directly (relative open bat) (more open for flatter ball)... use a loose grip. You will return that shot safely.

The same concept applies to a smash speed ball, you just gotta be looser grip on those. Once you get some of these back, you will feel how easy the concept is. The "difficult" part is knowing where such a ball will go.

You can with time, know opponents tendencies... however, you can simply go with the odds until opponent shows versatility or tendencies.

The odds are, on a powerful shot, opponent is going the natural angle - CROSS COURT.

So, if both are RH players and you gave a loose ball to his BH corner, there is a very high chance the opponent will hard drive it right back to your BH corner area.

Just be ready, be loose, don't panic. Move your arm to the ball once he hits is (if it isn't already coming where you prepared) LOOSE GRIP. Believe. You will get it back.

There is a natural tendency for players to TIGHTEN grip and arm when an opponent is showing a stroke with huge swing or huge energy... it is kinda like instinctive human reflex. Don't do that. Just be loose, get bat to ball, believe me, you have time if he is hitting to a prepared zone... stay loose grip and get bat on ball and you have a high chance of returning it.

I get so many points from my opponents tightening up vs my big swings and my heavy spins. Do your best to be relaxed and loose. Don't try to be a hero, just stick that sucka out there real loose and you got it.
 
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I know the technique for blocking, it's getting there in a shot like that which is a guess at best.
The idea is not to allow your opponent to hit the ball like that to begin with.

I have no doubt a shot like that would win a point off of any world class player, 40% or not. A direct BOOM into the table with no spin that's over before you know it. Just have to place it correctly.
 
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I know the technique for blocking, it's getting there in a shot like that which is a guess at best.
The idea is not to allow your opponent to hit the ball like that to begin with.

I have no doubt a shot like that would win a point off of any world class player, 40% or not. A direct BOOM into the table with no spin that's over before you know it. Just have to place it correctly.

True... if you do not give opponent a loose ball like that, opponent will have less opportunities for easy power shots... but we can be real about this... we all will give opponents those chances in a match as we do not read every spin and every ball properly. It is going to happen.

The key is to be relaxed and play the percentages. They will work for you over and over... until opponent realizes what you are doing and changes his ways. That is tactical intelligence (we can just call it common sense) (but we can all act like real stupid idiots in the middle of a match when we are trying hard) You can also adjust to opponent's adjustments or even bait him one way and go the other (where opponent thought was going to be open side). TT is open warfare.

TT at all levels, especially the higher level we go up is about adjustments in match. That is why it is a huge advantage for one player to have a coach wise enough to see what and why stuff is happening and communicate/motivate the player.

For now, play the best possibility, be neutral and right at impact setup for a BH corner shot... all you gotta do is get the bat out there soft and you are in there. Some players cope with this possibility by taking a half to 3/4 step back and using long arms to get to the ball, kinda like Samsonov style.
 
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