What are the differences between inverted and short pip rubbers?

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Look at Hou Ying Chou on how he plays SP chopping on his BH for defense, and Mina Ito on how to use it for attack. For blocking SP is not very effective as it is slow and once someone knows how the returning spin works he/she will kill the next shot ( of course except He Zhi Wen).

SLOW?!?

Depends on your short pip. Many wonderful blockers used short pips. They can be bullet fast, especially today with tuned sponges. It's more about placement and speed, rather than spin changes with short pips although that does play a role.
 
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SLOW?!?

Depends on your short pip. Many wonderful blockers used short pips. They can be bullet fast, especially today with tuned sponges. It's more about placement and speed, rather than spin changes with short pips although that does play a role.

I don;t know who else except He Zhi Wen can execute such bullet block. Do you?
Another person probably is Yu Mingwei. Both Yu Mingwei and He Zhi Wen got beaten by Tao Wenzhang because part of it the return is too slow.
 
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Short pips is just the top sheet.
You guys must factor in sponge too.

thinner sponge will be slower
thicker sponge will be faster.

Most of the SP cpen players I know, all use attacking sponge, and all of can block fast with it.
famous guys like LGL and lots of players in his era can block fast with it.

Back to OP
short pips is flatter, less arc, can reduce spin when required, can add spin (not as much as inverted) but more than LP
 
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Both Yu Mingwei and He Zhi Wen got beaten by Tao Wenzhang because part of it the return is too slow.

I think it got more to do with Traditional backhand issue, than oppose to SP on the surface.
In fact, SP block is faster than Inverted if one uses similar sponge.

I know a few modern SP attackers who please in Jia A for the Shaanxi team, uses RPB most of the time on bh
I have a video on my youtube channel where one guy blocked bullet past SA champion (WR highest 3xx).
Since Tao is also Jia A level in China and Tao was there last year, I wonder if they played each other before....
 
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inverted is pips in and short pips is pips out. There are more grip in inverted so it is more suited for looping. Short pimple have less grip, so it is difficult to loop with and is not so spinsensitive. Because of they are less spinsensitive it is easier to return serves and smash through spin. You can play both defence and attack with short pimple, but proably not with the same rubber since there are alot of short pimple rubbers.

There are short pips with more grip that can make spin, and they are more like inverted compared to the other type of pips.
There are also pips with less, almost no grip and they can not make spin so good, but they give more effect in the ball.

With short pimple the ball almost always slide a little on the rubber, especially when you block. That is way the ball is going more down with pips and have a lower arch. With grippy pips they the ball do not slide so much, but on not so grippy pips they ball slide more so the effect is bigger.

The thickness of the sponge also affect. Thicker sponge is faster and less effect on the ball, while thinner sponge is slower and make more effect on the ball. The sponge can also be harder or softer. Harder sponge is less spinsensitive i think, feels more like hardbat and feels pretty dead while soft sponge is easier to play with, more bounce and feels more lika and inverted.

How the pips is aligned, vertical or horizontal also matter, but i do not know how. Enlighten me!

But what kind of short pimple should you chose. I think alot of attacking players go for thick sponge so they can play hard and grippy pips so they can loop a little and get spin. Especially players that have it on the forehand. This setup is more close to inverted compared to the others.

Players that use it more for blocking, change of pace and disturbance proably will have thinner sponge and not so grippy pips because the ball have more effect. I think it is more common to use this on the backhand to get a good ball to kill with the forehand. But i think that you loose some safety with less grippy pips because the ball go down more, you need to lift the ball alot more.

I think players that use it for defence have very thin sponge so it is slower and grippy pips so they can make more spin compared to a long pimple rubber. I think this setup is very uncommon cause it proably is very hard to do, but if you master it the chopper can have much more variation compared to long pips cause they easier can create there own spin.

Players that use short pimples for attacking, always play close to the table and take the ball at the highest point and maybe earlier if they block. They need to play close to the table cause they can only smash when the ball is at the highest point since the ball go in a straight trajectory since it is little spin in the ball. The short pimple is often to slow to use further away and pretty useless if you do not hit the ball at the highest point. So people with short pimple often play fast close to the table and can also play pretty hard and powerful shots if they are close to the table. they also need much better footwork compared to inverted in my opinion since they need to hit the ball at the highest point. Because of that forehand short pimple players often need to set up the point pretty good with the ball cause it is hard to run with forehand alot because if you come late or wrong you can not smash the ball since it is not at the highest point. but then there are some players with good footwork that can play alot of forehand. But i think it is more common to run forehand with inverted, proably because you still can do an okay ball if the ball is low and that you can do a okay opening.

If you play the same pace, same rythm and play in the middle squares you proably will have a hard time against short pimple players since it requires alot of timing and if the pace is the same then they have correct timing and if they do not need to move they will easy hit the ball at the highest point. If you play with alot of spin this will also proably benefit them since they get more help and can hit the ball harder.

If you want to win against them you need to do the opposite of the above. Long serves and long pushes against the pips could alos be good since they can only do a soft opener with not so much spin. I am amazed that not good players use this more against short pimple players, like Mattias Falck.

I can could go on forever, but this is proably a good start. if you watch your friends with short pimples i think you will learn about what you are asking easier than asking it here. Or maybe watch some on youtube.
 
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Why is blocking with sp slow? I find it very effective in blocking and punchblocking.
Look at Hou Ying Chou on how he plays SP chopping on his BH for defense, and Mina Ito on how to use it for attack. For blocking SP is not very effective as it is slow and once someone knows how the returning spin works he/she will kill the next shot ( of course except He Zhi Wen).
 
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Why is blocking with sp slow? I find it very effective in blocking and punchblocking.

I agree that it is slower to block with if you do not do anything, since most short pimples in my opinion is slower than inverted. But i agree that if you are blocking active like punchblocking then it is very effective and fast.
 
Short pips should be used peak of the bounce or on the rise. If you are contacting the ball late (unless you are chopping), you are defeating the purpose of using Short pip. Also max sponge sp rubbers are no way slow even with passive blocking.
 
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Yes i totally agree. Played with short pimple alot so i understand What you are saying. I Do not know if you have played alot with short pimples But in my opinion short pimples is almost always slower and less bouncy compared to inverted. I find it pretty difficult to turn my racket around and block with the inverted since it is much faster than the short pimple. And i have pretty fast short pimple since i boost quite alot But Maybe your experiences is from using very soft and booster rubbers. I can agree that is is fast to block with very soft pimples when you Do a passive block. Soft short pimples are more like an inverted rubber i think. And Maybe if i Did not compare the short pimple with inverted i would also agree that they could be pretty fast with a passive block.
 
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But maybe it is just about the sponge hardness and not short pimpe and inverted rubber. It could be that the inverted is faster and is easier to passive block with since inverted often have softer sponge compared to short pimple rubbers, or atleast those i have tried and of course there are soft sponge short pimples also and maybe then it is no different. With the soft sponge we get more help and therefor it is easier to block fast with a passive block.
 
I have played and used quite a few sp rubbers because i use them to coach. I never said they are faster than inverted becase the topsheet elasticity is different. I am just saying they are not slow.
 
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I think penholders with SP blocking is different than shakehand. Most shake hand SP players don't punch like pen so they tend to hit the ball flat or chop. At my level, penhold SP punch (Hongkong style) seems too slow but like Tony already mentioned it could be from the sponge or the classic PH style.

However, penhold punch still can't be as fast, spinny, and effective like a shakehand BP counter . This fact has been proven at top level players since Waldner.
 

Brs

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Brs

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Most basic difference is with SP the most effective shot is a hit, with inverted it is a loop.

Watch some youtube videos of Mima Ito to see SP used very well on BH, or Mattias Falck (nee Karlsson) to see it on FH.
 
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