How to return a fast short pendulum serve to the wide bh

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
Hi to all, I've been passed hard times trying to return short or even long but over the table, a mate which is a righty cpen player, I'm using a V16 sticked El-P at BH, the only way that I can return is with a long flick to the deep BH side, which mostly times comes back with a fast topspin/push to the FH corner, then is difficult to me counter topspin, I know it's a matter of footwork and I'm training that, but the most worrying is that when it comes the serve with heavy sidespin I can't return to the table, mostly times go long...

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
I think I had the same problem and the solution I found was to move quickly and do a really fast FH topspin OVER the table (and try to make it on his FH, parallel to the table). It is difficult in the beginning and needs a lot of practice, but if you find the way, you will see it is a very deadly move. It will help you in other occasions also.
Those heavy sidespin serves are tricky in the beginning and the secret is to put a spin to the ball that dominates over his spin. A heavy topspin from your side is very effective.
Another way is to smash the ball with a slightly close angle in your bat (not flick, smash). Also a very difficult move...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dominus7
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
I think I had the same problem and the solution I found was to move quickly and do a really fast FH topspin OVER the table (and try to make it on his FH, parallel to the table). It is difficult in the beginning and needs a lot of practice, but if you find the way, you will see it is a very deadly move. It will help you in other occasions also.
Those heavy sidespin serves are tricky in the beginning and the secret is to put a spin to the ball that dominates over his spin. A heavy topspin from your side is very effective.
Another way is to smash the ball with a slightly close angle in your bat (not flick, smash). Also a very difficult move...
Do you have a footage about how you handle this service?

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
Active Member
Nov 2017
876
400
1,399
Read 8 reviews
If it's purely sidespin just forehand counter it.
You don't even need a lot of footwork, often it's done infront of the body, like a kind of flick.
Think of it like slapping someone who's face is at the height of your chest.

There's no real need to do the whole pivot and whole forehand topspin etc like ma long or something. It's fun but much harder.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
Can a short serve be very fast? Sounds a little strange to me But Maybe he have good serves.

I think it is hard to explain how to return serves in text cause We Do not see the serve and its spin. I think you need to answer this yourself by trying different stuff.

Try to return with backhand, forehand, short ans long, try different placements, hit the ball harder and softer, push, flip, loop, go with or go against the spin.
And se What is working good.

Maybe you can also watch pros and other players and see how they choose to return this serve ans try to Do the Same.

If you know that the opponent does this serve you have the advantage. And if you know that if you play to their backhand then the ball Will always go the forehand you also have rhe advantage since you know where the ball is coming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Takkyu_wa_inochi
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
Can a short serve be very fast? Sounds a little strange to me But Maybe he have good serves.

I think it is hard to explain how to return serves in text cause We Do not see the serve and its spin. I think you need to answer this yourself by trying different stuff.

Try to return with backhand, forehand, short ans long, try different placements, hit the ball harder and softer, push, flip, loop, go with or go against the spin.
And se What is working good.

Maybe you can also watch pros and other players and see how they choose to return this serve ans try to Do the Same.

If you know that the opponent does this serve you have the advantage. And if you know that if you play to their backhand then the ball Will always go the forehand you also have rhe advantage since you know where the ball is coming.
Sure, the serving position is next to table, so I am expecting a very fast long parallel or a short medium sidespin to the wide BH less fast a little bit, but fast anyway, so the way that I could handle 4/10 times is a flick to the deep BH as fast as I can, but it's 4/10 so I need to return 10/10, and not always with flick, I was thinking about get more loosely the handle then I could absorb part of spin.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
If it's purely sidespin just forehand counter it.
You don't even need a lot of footwork, often it's done infront of the body, like a kind of flick.
Think of it like slapping someone who's face is at the height of your chest.

There's no real need to do the whole pivot and whole forehand topspin etc like ma long or something. It's fun but much harder.
I've tried too but the sidespin makes a pronounced boomerang arc or horizontal curve, so the timing is not much

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
Hi to all, I've been passed hard times trying to return short or even long but over the table, a mate which is a righty cpen player, I'm using a V16 sticked El-P at BH, the only way that I can return is with a long flick to the deep BH side, which mostly times comes back with a fast topspin/push to the FH corner, then is difficult to me counter topspin, I know it's a matter of footwork and I'm training that, but the most worrying is that when it comes the serve with heavy sidespin I can't return to the table, mostly times go long...

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

It seems like you use the strong flick in order to fight with the incomming spin. While it works it may be comfortable for the opponent to attack. For you its better to push short. If you experience trouble with this, it means you act wrong against the incomming spin. If the serve is with a heavy sidespin and your return goes long over the table, it means that you take it more as a backspin. Such serve with a heavy sidespin may have a little or no underspin at all, so take it just fighting the sidespin, not the back spin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dominus7
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
Sure, the serving position is next to table, so I am expecting a very fast long parallel or a short medium sidespin to the wide BH less fast a little bit, but fast anyway, so the way that I could handle 4/10 times is a flick to the deep BH as fast as I can, but it's 4/10 so I need to return 10/10, and not always with flick, I was thinking about get more loosely the handle then I could absorb part of spin.

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

I agree that you can not always return the same way. It will be to easy for him, if he knows the ball is going to his backhand everytime, he will have an easy time to do a good ball. Like i said, you need to try to return the serve different ways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Takkyu_wa_inochi
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
Active Member
Nov 2017
876
400
1,399
Read 8 reviews
I've tried too but the sidespin makes a pronounced boomerang arc or horizontal curve, so the timing is not much

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

Yeah it takes a bit of practice but it's generally the easiest and safest way to return.
The timing is actually not such a huge issue because if you're forehanding it you can 'chase the ball' with your blade and due to the sidespin the ball will still go on the table even though it's as if you're hitting it out of the table
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
Yeah it takes a bit of practice but it's generally the easiest and safest way to return.
The timing is actually not such a huge issue because if you're forehanding it you can 'chase the ball' with your blade and due to the sidespin the ball will still go on the table even though it's as if you're hitting it out of the table
I have been thinking about this and got that I need a better footwork and ability to anticipate the direction, spin, speed and stance, to get closer to the ball and return smoothly or hit strongly

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Feb 2017
626
100
907
I think it helps to tell us if you are a righty or lefty
you did say its a righty cpen with pendulum serve?

Does he serve side bottom or side top?
Does he serve short, medium long or long?
Where does he land the ball?

I'm righty using classic flared handle Yinhe v16 MX-P FH and El-P BH, the other one uses a v16 cpen GA8 FH and G1 BH, his serves are usually on the corner or close and variate from serve short back sidespin to medium fast wide BH, sometimes backspin and topspin, my success to return is 4/10 because the variation,

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
If your success is 4/10 you really need to try to read the spin by looking at the impact and the ball, and then make a decision what kind of spin you think it is and then go for it. People often hesitate and do something inbetween, this is not go. I also think, like i said that if you only return so few serves you need to find other ways you can return them. Try different ways. You can never miss the serve and then go on and do the same mistake again. that is just stupid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whocarez
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,258
6,223
15,292
Read 3 reviews
I'm righty using classic flared handle Yinhe v16 MX-P FH and El-P BH, the other one uses a v16 cpen GA8 FH and G1 BH, his serves are usually on the corner or close and variate from serve short back sidespin to medium fast wide BH, sometimes backspin and topspin, my success to return is 4/10 because the variation,

Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk

from the limited information I have gathered
You just need to practice learning how to use your BH to go down the line.
If the ball keep going long, maybe use a more controlable rubber and see if it is maybe not a too fast equipment issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
says I would recommend all wood. Samsonov Alpha sgs is the...
Active Member
Nov 2017
876
400
1,399
Read 8 reviews
Ok, 3 ways:

1) Best is to lean to time the backhand well so that your topspin overrides whatever other spin. Aim for the center of the table and you should be alright.
This is best because you remain stable for the next shot.

2) Second best is to touch the ball from its right side with your forehand. Soft or flicky. The idea is to let the spin on the ball bring the ball back to the table and for that spin to be preserved (with a soft touch) to mess with the trajectory of the ball or for it to win the point (with a flicky shot, like slapping someone who's face is at the height of your chest)

3) The worst way is to move bodily out of the table and forehand topspin the ball. It's the worst because it takes the most effort, the best timing, the best feel of the ball, to do all that while your body and eyes are moving sideways, and even then it can fail miserably if the serve is too spinny (curves out of the table suddenly) or a bit too short, a bit too long, has a slight topspin kick etc etc. Also even if you hit it you're out of the game. A simple block and you lost the point most likely).

So yeah, although it's spectacular to do the forehand pivot on a sidespin pendulum, I would definitely not recommend it in general.
 
Top