Hard European topspin rubber

iamsan · Feb 21, 2019

Hi guys.
I started TT to play with forehand H3N, that's why I like hard rubbers. Because i dislike the tackyness I changed to baracuda then fastarc g-1.
I wonder which could be the next step, my eyes are on mx-s.
I like hard rubbers cause I have a long swing and like to hit hard on both sides. Also hard rubbers are kinda better in receives for me.

My blade is all+ limba allwood.

LeoCH · Feb 21, 2019

You could consider:
Tenergy 05 hard
Cornelieau Target xt 51
Stiga Mantra H
Rasanter R50
Xiom omega 7 asia/tour

NDH · Feb 21, 2019

MX-S would get my vote.

If you want something softer, T05H would be the next best.

yoass · Feb 21, 2019

T05H is softer than MX-S? Is MX-S over 53 (shore C)? Hard to wrap my head around.

Anyway, Gewo and Nexy both offer excellent hard (50) rubbers. Too much for me, but I still think the world of them regardless.

iamsan · Feb 21, 2019

Would like to read comparison between G-1 and MX-S.

Also is there a big difference between R50 and MX-S? Both were published for poly ball, have hard sponge and soft topsheet.

How does Vega Pro suits into the categories? I don't get the hang out of it, VP feels different to G1 but both should be the same hardness category, linearity and low catapult.

langel · Feb 21, 2019

Xiom Omega 7 Asia on 1st place
T05H-2nd
Almost same hardeness, different performance.
Xiom Omega 7 Tour - even harder, excellent, difficult

talbon · Feb 22, 2019

Wouldn't T05H be the closest to H3N? Taking into account also spin. (not saying, just asking)

MX-S is nice, comfortable and all but nowhere close to H3N & variants to load a ball with spin and speed. (I'm talking about unboosted rubbers that you can obtain from standard resellers as a random player.) I actually prefer Rhyzm-P, it's got slightly more bite to it (Rhyzer 50 would be the latest and hardest in the series, but I haven't tried it).

FruitLoop · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
MX-S would get my vote.

If you want something softer, T05H would be the next best.

What hardness is MX-S? I thought T05H would be a significantly harder sponge since supposedly it's 53 degrees or something. MX-S surely less than 50.

yogi_bear · Feb 22, 2019

Omega 7 Asia for me.

langel · Feb 22, 2019

yogi_bear said:
Omega 7 Asia for me.

For me too. 3 and a half months with it and I'm very happy.
Aside from the excellent playing characteristics it seems it will have a longer lifetime. It's of 80 hrs of play and still feels like new.

NDH · Feb 22, 2019

FruitLoop said:
What hardness is MX-S? I thought T05H would be a significantly harder sponge since supposedly it's 53 degrees or something. MX-S surely less than 50.

I could be wrong, but it certainly feels softer thank MX-S, but it’s possible my memory is playing tricks.

There isn’t a wild difference beteeen T05 and T05H to be perfectly honest.

Butterfly has the sponge down as 43 degrees. But not sure if they use the same measurement system.

https://butterflyonline.com/Templates/RubberSpecifications.pdf

MX-S on the other hand is 47 degrees!

iamsan · Feb 22, 2019

Hey guys.
Could u write more about the mentioned rubbers G-1, VP MX-S, R50 in comparison?
I guess I like hard topsheet thus R50 and MX-S wont suit.

langel · Feb 22, 2019

If you like harder topsheet, try Xiom Omega V Asia.

The rubbers you want to compare are of different generation, different sponge/topsheet hardness and thickness ratio, different sponge hardness and very different performance. There are a lot of reviews about these rubbers. Its useless to try to campare them here, before you clarify what and why you are looking for. Your last question made useless all the answers above.
By the way R50 is not with soft topsheet, its mid hard, though its thin.

yoass · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
I could be wrong, but it certainly feels softer thank MX-S, but it’s possible my memory is playing tricks.

There isn’t a wild difference beteeen T05 and T05H to be perfectly honest.

Butterfly has the sponge down as 43 degrees. But not sure if they use the same measurement system.

https://butterflyonline.com/Templates/RubberSpecifications.pdf

MX-S on the other hand is 47 degrees!

MX-S is measured in Shore C, the scale ESN uses.

Butterfly, I think, uses Asker A. In that scale, T05 is 36 and T05H clocks at 43 - which roughly correspond to 45 and 53 in Shore C, respectively.

NDH · Feb 22, 2019

yoass said:
MX-S is measured in Shore C, the scale ESN uses.

Butterfly, I think, uses Asker A. In that scale, T05 is 36 and T05H clocks at 43 - which roughly correspond to 45 and 53, respectively.

I’d love to see an independent measurement because MX-S felt much harder from memory.

yoass · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
I’d love to see an independent measurement because MX-S felt much harder from memory.

I think the topsheet greatly influences the feel of hardness, whereas the hardness specified pertains to the sponge only.

Xiom's "Asia" labeled rubbers in the Vega and Omega series typically have hard topsheets, and are overall well-liked.

jawien · Feb 22, 2019

MX-S works pretty well on my current Tibhar Curious, an off- I would say blade. It was quite fast on TB ALC though.
Over the last period, driven by your paradigm, namely something like H3/Skyline and not as tacky and better for blocking I've found also Omega Asia V (mentioned here, haven't tried VII series - Xiom has this nice carbon something technology for sponges) and my current fh Bluestorm Z1 Turbo.

Jimbob MacInbred · Feb 22, 2019

NDH said:
I’d love to see an independent measurement because MX-S felt much harder from memory.

The backside of the package of the Evolution rubbers give us some (more or less useful) insigths about the sponge hardness in regard to the "japanese" and the "european" scale...

Tibhar (or ESN for that matter) claims that the MX-S has a sponge hardness of 35.5 - 37° on japanese scale (Asker A) which translates to 46.3 - 48.3° on the european scale (Shore C). Some people however seem to only look how hard a sponge is without taking into account how the topsheet is "composed" (natural rubber vs. synthetic rubber, pimple structure etc. etc.). See one of Yoass' comments..

The MX-S and T05 have a simliarly hard sponge, but they greatly differ in their topsheets. MX-S might feel harder than T05 because the pimples are flat and wide (simliar to T25!); flatter and wider than T05, although it's topsheet material is fairly soft as a whole (and MX-S is generally not as dynamic as Tenergy as you probably know).

That being said, the Xiom Vega China gets my vote for a very good (and hard) european topspin rubber, followed by the Gewo Nexxus EL 48 (Gewo is underappriciated by the tt community I think).

langel · Feb 22, 2019

Jimbob MacInbred said:
The backside of the package of the Evolution rubbers give us some (more or less useful) insigths about the sponge hardness in regard to the "japanese" and the "european" scale...

Tibhar (or ESN for that matter) claims that the MX-S has a sponge hardness of 35.5 - 37° on japanese scale (Asker A) which translates to 46.3 - 48.3° on the european scale (Shore C). Some people however seem to only look how hard a sponge is without taking into account how the topsheet is "composed" (natural rubber vs. synthetic rubber, pimple structure etc. etc.). See one of Yoass' comments..

The MX-S and T05 have a simliarly hard sponge, but they greatly differ in their topsheets. MX-S might feel harder than T05 because the pimples are flat and wide (simliar to T25!); flatter and wider than T05, although it's topsheet material is fairly soft as a whole (and MX-S is generally not as dynamic as Tenergy as you probably know).

That being said, the Xiom Vega China gets my vote for a very good (and hard) european topspin rubber, followed by the Gewo Nexxus EL 48 (Gewo is underappriciated by the tt community I think).

I agree with most of the thing here, as many times I try to explain like this.

BUT - Xiom Vega China is a typical tacky rubber designed for the chinese style of play. The fact that its a 4G ESN tensor doesn't mean that its a uropean style rubber.

NDH · Feb 22, 2019

That's good info!

I'm not someone who has ever concerned themselves with the particulars of EJ'ing - I generally use a blade I like the look of (providing it's in the "ballpark" of what I want) - I don't worry about the weight of blade (or rubbers) either.

As for the rubbers, I've never once concerned myself with how hard the sponge is, or what the top sheet is composed of and how this affects play.

I feel I'd never make a choice if I did all this! haha.

Prime example is this very discussion we are having.

Looks like T05 Hard does in fact have a harder sponge than MX-S, yet due to the top sheet, it feels softer.

Well...... What does that translate to the every day user?

I'm assuming most people asking for a harder sponge, will want it for the feedback it provides - i.e - They want it to feel harder.

So if T05H WAS harder, but FELT softer...... Is that off the table?

What a world we live in........

Hard European topspin rubber

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