Butterfly Innerforce ALC.SOFT vs. Innterforce ZLC

GarbagePenholder · Feb 23, 2019

Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase a new penhold paddle from the Innerforce series. I previously used the Stiga Intensity and found it very controllable and easy to play with a H3N as FH.

Can someone tell me about how the Innerforce ALC.S, Innterforce ZLC, and Innerforce ALC play? Can you guys compare all three to each other. I most likely do not think the ALC is suitable for me because it seems very reactive and bouncy, compared to the other two.

Please leave as much feedback as you can.

Thanks,

mart1nandersson · Feb 23, 2019

I play shake hand, with japanese rubbers and haven't tried the ALC/ZLC but I've had the ALC.S on loan for 3 weeks (with an option to buy it real cheap).

Initially it felt really weird. The short game, drives and service receives are very similar to my usual Korbel. The main difference for me is when blocking and looping at maximum effort.

The blocking almost put me off from the blade after my first session as a LOT of blocks landed 1m outside of the table. I've really had to adjust as there's quite a bit of bounciness. The grip really needs to be mega relaxed. I've almost got the hang of it but I wouldn't dare playing matches with it.

The looping and also smashing is very good. I get a lot more power with the same effort compared to the Korbel. Sometimes it feels like cheating

My understanding is that the ALC.S is thinner than the ALC and has also got Limba-Spruce as outer plies (ALC is Limba-Limba).

Just as a side note: I wasted some months during the summer trying to play with the Viscaria and the ALC.S is a whole lot easier to adapt to when coming from an all wood blade.

Most people seem to hate the ALC.S.

GarbagePenholder · Feb 23, 2019

Thank you.

Anyone else?

FruitLoop · Feb 23, 2019

GarbagePenholder said:
Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase a new penhold paddle from the Innerforce series. I previously used the Stiga Intensity and found it very controllable and easy to play with a H3N as FH.

Can someone tell me about how the Innerforce ALC.S, Innterforce ZLC, and Innerforce ALC play? Can you guys compare all three to each other. I most likely do not think the ALC is suitable for me because it seems very reactive and bouncy, compared to the other two.

Please leave as much feedback as you can.

Thanks,

Harimoto ALC is coming out in a few months. Maybe wait and see the reviews for it?

mart1nandersson · Feb 24, 2019

You'll probably find a lot of information about Innerforce ZLF type blades if you search for the Liu Shiwen ZLF which seems quite popular (discontinued but still readily available on eBay etc).

P1ngP0ng3r · Feb 24, 2019

Can't give any feedback on the Innerforce series, as I haven't played with them. just wanted to mention I'll follow this thread

I'm interested in ALC.S as well. Use the Stiga Infinity for a couple of years and really like the blade. Just looking for some extra speed and "crisp". In theory(!!) the ALC.S should be perfect as the layers are the same + ALC layer

Infinity:
Limba | Spruce | Ayous | Spruce | Limba (6.0mm)

ALS.S:
Limba | Spruce | ALC | Ayous | ALC | Spruce | Limba (5.5mm)

The layers of Liu Shiwen are indeed exactly the same as Innerforce ZLF.
Both ALC and ZLC have the same outer layers: limba | limba. Just the type of carbon is different.

As Fruitloop mentioned, the Harimoto blade comes out in April and it's an Innerforce blade a as well. The headset is slightly larger than regular BTY blades, 158x152.

G_ZHANG · Feb 24, 2019

ALCS is thin soft and spinny. Very good control, but because of the thickness, it has somehow some hollow feel or vibration.
Under full power stroke, it is bery spinny, but if you do half power or block, it tends to be too soft. So will be a bit lack of threat to your opponent.

Inn ZLC is very bouncy, because of the ZLC. If you played Intensity before, you've probably developed some large movement stroke like Xuxin. Inn ZLC won't suit such technique as the dwell time is less than Intensity. You need small but quick stroke.
But because of the ZLC, it is better for blocking and hit-brush stroke.

Inn ALC is somehow in the middle of ALCS and ZLC.

Spin: ALCS > ALC >=ZLC
Arc： ALCS > ALC > ZLC
Control： ALCS > ALC>ZLC
Speed ZLC>ALC>ALCS

Im not sure ALC or ALCS which is closer to Intensity, but ZLC is for sure the furthest.

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

For anyone following this, I’ll be getting the Harimoto ALC as soon as it is available (release date is April 1st, so unless anything changes with that, I’ll be getting it shortly afterwards).

Harimoto ALC is thicker than IF ALC (which is thicker than ALC.S).

Although I doubt there’s too much in it between HALC and IF ALC (0.2mm I believe).

FruitLoop · Feb 24, 2019

NDH said:
For anyone following this, I’ll be getting the Harimoto ALC as soon as it is available (release date is April 1st, so unless anything changes with that, I’ll be getting it shortly afterwards).

Harimoto ALC is thicker than IF ALC (which is thicker than ALC.S).

Although I doubt there’s too much in it between HALC and IF ALC (0.2mm I believe).

I thought butterfly said it would have same thickness just larger head size?

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

FruitLoop said:
I thought butterfly said it would have same thickness just larger head size?

The catalogue says it's the same, but the blade matrix has 2 different dots for them both (they are clearly happy to use the same dot if necessary, as shown by other blades).

I asked Butterfly for the make up of the bat and received this.....

Sorry again, but we never disclose the exact blade compositions. The difference to INNERFORCE ALC is due to a different overall thickness of the HARIMOTO.

G_ZHANG · Feb 24, 2019

Acturally Butterfly has released themselfs in the latest video.

Same structure, thickness, but different headsize, hense the two different dots .

NDH said:
The catalogue says it's the same, but the blade matrix has 2 different dots for them both (they are clearly happy to use the same dot if necessary, as shown by other blades).

I asked Butterfly for the make up of the bat and received this.....

Sorry again, but we never disclose the exact blade compositions. The difference to INNERFORCE ALC is due to a different overall thickness of the HARIMOTO.

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

Ah OK - Thanks for the video!

I guess the Butterfly rep meant the size of the blade, rather than the thickness!

I'm still amazed they didn't price this much higher.......

passifid · Feb 24, 2019

for anyone uk interested in the ALC.S and normal IF don't buy from teessport. I bought a IF ALC for £112 shipped from amazon.jp instead of 139. (they're £85 before tax and shipping so if you bought 2 or 3 for you and your mates the avg price would be loser to 106)

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

passifid said:
for anyone uk interested in the ALC.S and normal IF don't buy from teessport. I bought a IF ALC for £112 shipped from amazon.jp instead of 139. (they're £85 before tax and shipping so if you bought 2 or 3 for you and your mates the avg price would be loser to 106)

How long did it take to arrive?

I think I'd spend the extra £27 and get it from the UK personally.

passifid · Feb 24, 2019

NDH said:
How long did it take to arrive?

I think I'd spend the extra £27 and get it from the UK personally.

eh thats a big %. i mean if you go for the extra 27 you could have a (almost) zjk zlc or a if zlc plus change. throw a p[air of £27 rozena (32 after VAT) and the savings hit £47 for a IF alc plus rozena
shipping time is about a week but give it two incase as you're shipping across the world

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

Yeah, if I wasn't in a hurry and didn't mind the possibility of it getting lost in transit or damaged in transit - I'd go for it.

My experience in shipping individual items from China/Japan to the UK hasn't been great though, which is why I'd pay the extra money and get it from Tees Sport (or perhaps even Butterfly Online store in Germany).

mart1nandersson · Feb 24, 2019

There's definitely a business case for rubbers. The Scandinavian BTY reseller takes a whopping 549SEK (approx 55€) for a sheet of Rozena whereas it's 30$ in most Asian markets. This usually means about 800SEK (80€) for a pair when I've paid for shipping and VAT/customs fees (if I'm unlucky).

I looked up the price difference on the ALC.S and it didn't differ that much between buying it local (130€) and buying it from Japan/Rakuten/ebay/whatever. Shipping and the potential VAT/customs fee makes it unattractive to me.

NDH · Feb 24, 2019

That's quite funny!

I buy my rubbers from the Swedish reseller when they have a sale on Black Friday.

Usually means I save £12 per sheet of Tenergy!

mart1nandersson · Feb 24, 2019

NDH said:
That's quite funny!

I buy my rubbers from the Swedish reseller when they have a sale on Black Friday.

Usually means I save £12 per sheet of Tenergy!

I got a colleague to pick up T05 rubbers in Warsaw (thanks to a friendly tip here on TTD) for a club mate. It was about 10€ cheaper per sheet. Small savings but I see it as a sport to save as much as possible

passifid · Feb 24, 2019

mart1nandersson said:
There's definitely a business case for rubbers. The Scandinavian BTY reseller takes a whopping 549SEK (approx 55€) for a sheet of Rozena whereas it's 30$ in most Asian markets. This usually means about 800SEK (80€) for a pair when I've paid for shipping and VAT/customs fees (if I'm unlucky).

I looked up the price difference on the ALC.S and it didn't differ that much between buying it local (130€) and buying it from Japan/Rakuten/ebay/whatever. Shipping and the potential VAT/customs fee makes it unattractive to me.

130 euros! its 160 euros in old blightly. but yeah some stuff like tenergy actually isn't worth it after import fees!

Butterfly Innerforce ALC.SOFT vs. Innterforce ZLC

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