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Kjell Willers
03-24-2019, 12:08 AM
Hey,
new to the forum. Few things:
I played TT when I was 13ish and increased my work load from 2 up to 5 times a week without much practice in proper gameplay. I somewhat burned out, because of the high work load and only started playing again recently (21 yo). I started playing matches and I'm improving. My biggest strenght is my forehand loop and spinning pretty much everything that is played long. My backhand is pretty lackluster. I somewhat liked the MX-P a while back as it was very direct, but I changed it back to a Tenergy 05. I don't think I can fully utilize the T05 on my backhand though...
My current setup:

Butterfly Primorac FL
DHS Hurricane 3 FH (boosted 1 thick layer)
Butterfly Tenergy 05

I currently play at ~1200 rating, but my standings are 13:1.
I like the DHS Hurricane 3 a lot and am currently waiting on my DHS Hurricane 3 Neo to finish up the boosting process. My only problem is that I really have to put in A LOT OF EFFORT to play shots from a distance. Therefore, I am thinking about buying a faster blade that I am still able to play controllably (especially to control my backhand) and that pairs well with the DHS Hurricane 3 (Neo) Iike so much.
Some blades I am eyeing are the

Innerforce blades by Butterfly (mostly ALC/ZLC) and

Stiga's Rosewood 5 or even 7 (probably too fast)
or infinity VPS

I am really into the idea of the carbon blades, but am scared they might be too fast. At the same time I am hopeful that the carbon layers on the central ply are somewhat controllable for me.

I am open to answering any questions and looking forward to your replies.

TLDR:
Want new faster blade, but unsure if controllable.
Current setup:
Butterfly Primorac FL
DHS Hurricane 3 FH (boosted 1 thick layer)
Butterfly Tenergy 05

looking into:
Innerforce ALC
Innerforce ZLF
other Innerforce blades
Stiga Rosewood 5/7

lasta
03-24-2019, 06:22 AM
Hi Kjell,

Seems like there is a big discrepancy in your forehand and backhand. This will make matching equipment hard as you need faster forehand and slower backhand. seems counter-intuitive.

Maybe you can consider getting the same rubbers forehand and backhand. Ie 2 sheets of H3 and you can match it with a faster blade (to keep your backhand under control). Or change your forehand to Euro/Jap rubbers and keep the same blade you have now.

Lula
03-24-2019, 06:31 AM
Is china rubber on backhand a good option? Can be slow if it is a hard one?

And like i Said in all of these threads. Make sure the equipment Do not become to fast. I think the majority here would have become much better if they started out and kept slower equipment longer. I feel that people think i mean that they are bad and get offended, i am just trying to help them to get best possible developement.

lasta
03-24-2019, 07:21 AM
I'm not sure what too slow means, Ma Long can definitely generate a lot of speed and he uses 2 sheets of H3.

Also, I'm not against fast equipment. I don't think there is such a thing as "too fast" that one cannot control. The entire racket is just a tool of transferring power that you generate yourself, its just the efficiency/power loss that's equipment-dependent, so a racket can never be faster than the effort you put into it.

What I do believe in the predictability, having 2 similar rubbers means both forehand and backhand has a similar response thus higher control. H3 FH and T64 BH is uncontrollable because you are getting 2 completely different responses. This hampers your game especially when you are forced to be passive. But 2 sided T64 on a fast blade can still be controlled after a few months of getting used to.

But I agree. After being an EJ for so long, I'm more chasing after a "good feeling", rather than actually playing characteristics. The money would have been much better used on a good coach.

Kjell Willers
03-24-2019, 09:34 AM
I don't know how to cite on my mobile - sorry, but here goes:

The reason I don't play the same rubbers is that i have a really full good forehand stroke (more or less Chinese style) and a shorter backhand stroke (I couldn't possibly get the full potential out of a Hurricane 3 BH)
I fully agree with not going too fast to soon (hence my post), but I wouldn't agree with playing similar rubbers.

The question is if the Innerforce are already too fast (even if the carbon is near the core).

The safest bet is probably asking my coach and training a lot of BH to try to get it up to par. Going to switch my BH rubber off of the Tenergy 05 and see how it goes and concentrate my practice on BH more. I can still get a faster racket later, when I feel like my backhand is more controllable.

Other ideas welcomed and cheers for the answers guys :)

Ingo_Ger
03-24-2019, 09:39 AM
Moin! ;)

[...]
I played TT when I was 13ish and increased my work load from 2 up to 5 times a week without much practice in proper gameplay. I somewhat burned out, because of the high work load and only started playing again recently (21 yo).
For how long did you train this much and did you get any technique training with the help of a decent coach?

I started playing matches and I'm improving. My biggest strenght is my forehand loop and spinning pretty much everything that is played long. My backhand is pretty lackluster.
How "good/bad" is your BH compared to your FH?


Butterfly Primorac FL Good!
DHS Hurricane 3 FH (boosted 1 thick layer) What hardness?
Butterfly Tenergy 05 Thickness?

I currently play at ~1200 rating, but my standings are 13:1.
Holy mother of... To all out there: I have started playing after a 7 year hiatus and have a TTR of 1257. I'm playing 2. Kreisklasse lowest bracket and there are only two leagues lower than I'm playing in. Assuming that the OP is also playing in Germany, I'm amazed of the T05 and more of the H3 boosted. I'm in the third month of training after my hiatus and I'm lucky to have a coach who can feed me multi ball drills. He said that my FH is overall in technique worth two to three leagues above what I'm playing right now (which is worth a TTR of around 1500). And guess what I'm playing: Rozena 1.9mm and this is fast enough for everything.

I like the DHS Hurricane 3 a lot and am currently waiting on my DHS Hurricane 3 Neo to finish up the boosting process. My only problem is that I really have to put in A LOT OF EFFORT to play shots from a distance.
This sounds to me more like a problem with the FH technique than the material. With a boosted H3, you should be able to hit everything with ease, IF you have the proper technique. Especially for tacky and hard chinese rubber, you need a) good brushing motion, b) a lot power from the ground and c) explosive strokes. I've played with Palio Thors before my hiatus and I know the merits and problems with really hard rubbers. Normally, when you have the proper technique, hitting something from far away of the table does not feel like "you have to give it all and more". Power from the ground is in my opinion the key to this. Your core muscles and especially all below your waist should be strong enough to do everything in table tennis with ease. So my experience with hard rubbers is that if you feel that you have to do too much work, you're doing to much with the arm and not enough from the ground. If you think "Hey, explosiveness sounds like a lot of work", this has to do with the acceleration right before you hit the ball. This is something I'm currently working on. Keeping everything relaxed right before I hit the ball and then explode into the ball and relax immediately after hitting it.

Therefore, I am thinking about buying a faster blade that I am still able to play controllably (especially to control my backhand) and that pairs well with the DHS Hurricane 3 (Neo) Iike so much.
I would stick to the blade.

I'm not sure what too slow means, Ma Long can definitely generate a lot of speed and he uses 2 sheets of H3.
You can't compare Ma Long and his equipment with us "normal people". First, Ma Longs material is boosted like hell and is nowhere near what we can buy. Second, his technique is light years away of our technique here. Third, he has all the options to train 7 days a week with somebody like Wang Hao or Ma Lin as his coach.

What I do believe in the predictability, having 2 similar rubbers means both forehand and backhand has a similar response thus higher control. H3 FH and T64 BH is uncontrollable because you are getting 2 completely different responses. This hampers your game especially when you are forced to be passive. But 2 sided T64 on a fast blade can still be controlled after a few months of getting used to.
This is not correct because the range and speed of motions are totally different. BH strokes are shorter and don't have the power behind it. You can't get the amount of "power from the ground" compared to the FH. That's why pro player play softer and springier rubbers on BH.

It really is hard to give you advice with your equipment without seeing your technique and overall level of skill. Do you have a coach who knows your level of skill and give you good advice?

RidTheKid
03-24-2019, 10:25 AM
This is certainly incorrect. Equipment can definitely be too fast or too slow. What are you basing your opinion on?


I'm not sure what too slow means, Ma Long can definitely generate a lot of speed and he uses 2 sheets of H3.

Also, I'm not against fast equipment. I don't think there is such a thing as "too fast" that one cannot control. The entire racket is just a tool of transferring power that you generate yourself, its just the efficiency/power loss that's equipment-dependent, so a racket can never be faster than the effort you put into it.

What I do believe in the predictability, having 2 similar rubbers means both forehand and backhand has a similar response thus higher control. H3 FH and T64 BH is uncontrollable because you are getting 2 completely different responses. This hampers your game especially when you are forced to be passive. But 2 sided T64 on a fast blade can still be controlled after a few months of getting used to.

But I agree. After being an EJ for so long, I'm more chasing after a "good feeling", rather than actually playing characteristics. The money would have been much better used on a good coach.

Kjell Willers
03-24-2019, 12:38 PM
I had a proper coach and trained for about 2 years straight. My technique is therefore pretty good. It only lacks some consistency and I really lack practical applicability, as I didn't play many matches.

The DHS H3 is medium hardness and commercial version.
My T05 is max and probably (definitely too fast - I really liked the apparently faster MX-P though and played really well with it)

My level in practice is also much higher than in game. So I can confidently practice with players ~1500 and not mess up their practice session.

I'm actually pretty confident about my forehand technique. If my backhand were better I would definitely change my racket.

After reading all of this though, I think I will stick with my Primorac for now and focus on my backhand technique and proper footwork so I can hit all the forehand shots properly, as the DHS H3 is punishing any improper shots.

I still have an old MX-P I'm going to try out, but any other ideas what rubber I should use to learn consistent BH technique? If My stance is proper in relation to the Ball I hit almost every backhand consistently. Only have problems if I am hitting with my racket not directly in front of my body.

CallumMcKinnon
03-25-2019, 12:30 AM
You should look at the Yasaka Gioba 5 or the DHS Hurricane H301 for blades. If you like the rubbers, you should keep them and get as good as you can with them.

FruitLoop
03-25-2019, 01:02 AM
Try a controlled tensor old generation in 2mm. Vega Pro, Vega Japan, Fastarc G1, Fastarc C1, Donic Barracuda, Tibhar Aurus are examples.

NextLevel
03-25-2019, 02:11 AM
Definitely try an older ESN rubber on backhand, they behave more like Hurricane than Tenergy 05.

Kjell Willers
03-25-2019, 09:10 AM
I read in other forums to try out Friendship 729 super fx and Dawei 2008 xp. Any input on that? They're supercheapp ~10 €, so it wouldn't hurt too much if they and up in the trash a week later.

thekleifheit13
03-25-2019, 09:41 AM
I read in other forums to try out Friendship 729 super fx and Dawei 2008 xp. Any input on that? They're supercheapp ~10 €, so it wouldn't hurt too much if they and up in the trash a week later.

The Friendship might actually be too slow, but the Dawei is like a faster Mark V with similar characteristics and a little more tackiness. I think it would work well to help develop your backhand.

Kjell Willers
03-25-2019, 10:32 AM
Just read about the Donic Bluefire M3 and am really liking the reviews on it. Opinions :D?