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azlan
01-18-2012, 02:37 AM
I think this is the right time for me to post this and share with everyone (especially those who still have yet to discover their serves), the trick of serving a good underspin and nospin serves in conjunction with a thread by plasmalight titled http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2061-Slow-Motion-Services-(NEW)

To be effective, your serves have to be deceptive enough to confuse your opponents. If he always has to "guess" rather than "judge" what spins your serves represent, then you are pretty much there. To achieve this, you combine a variety of spins and make them look identical from outside, but in actual fact, you know they're not.

Key points to producing strong underspin:

The contact point has to be at the lower part of the bat.

There should be more chopping action than hitting.

The action should be very very fast, regardless of long or short serve. The faster the better.

Loosen your wrist and grip until the moment of ball contact. Or you won't be able to accelerate the bat sufficiently.

1679


Then we talk about

Key points in producing the no-spin serves.

The contact point is at the upper part of the bat.

Still exactly the same chopping action to start as shown in step 1 of Figure 2. But, at the very moment of ball contact, you slightly, appropriately, reasonably flat push the bat as in step 2. It's usually done with the fingers on the back. The action is adjusted right at the last moment and it's unlikely your opponent can pick up the subtle change provided it's shielded.

The follow-up move as in step 3 is purely to confuse the opponent and therefore must be exactly the same as you do in Figure 1.

1680


The two, used at your disposal, can lift your game to a new height.

The most common error is that there is little difference between the two - the backspin one is not spinning enough and the no-spin one bears spin. There seems the only cure is more practice. For backspin, give the ball more frictional action; for no-spin, correctly push the bat at the right angle.

However, experienced players can still glimpse some information by watching the contact, the ball, the flight. That's why you should learn to move the bat very fast regardless of long or short serves. The noise made at the contact is another important source of info. Then your stamp of left foot at the contact point will drown it up.


Courtesy of Lynn's Table Tennis

Mr. RicharD
01-18-2012, 05:36 AM
I kindly disagree with the motions and ball contacts and here's why. If I change the direction of service and angle of contact all of my services will look the same at point of contact, movement of wrist, and also in variation. This hides the service better than flashy hand movements. I do however agree that it's a good start on deceptive service as well as how you should contact the ball. With the right amount of racket speed your service will gain a lot of spin, but also and most importantly the dwell time you use on your service can greatly affect the amount of spin on a service.

For my own personal services (I plan on making videos about this as I've been told I have very good service) I change the amount of dwell into the racket and the contact point on the ball to generate spin. I however always aim for the center of my racket's sweet spot and control the service by how much I dig the ball into the rubber. For corkscrew or variational dead spin I always contact the ball with topsheet only and as little sponge action as possible. By angling the paddle 45 degrees and hitting between 4 and 5 o'clock and it's respective "equator" I'm able to create dead spins using the same service as my heavy underspins. The difference is for heavy underspins is that I allow for more dwell into the sponge and contact the ball anywhere from 5-7 o'clock depending on what type of underspin I'd like. For anything from 6-7 o'clock I obviously won't be able to create a disguised dead ball, but I can create a variational underspin ball. Depending on topsheet or sponge actions it can be heavy or very light underspin (the lighter acting more like a dead ball service).

For sidespin variations of dead and underspin you can be far more deceptive because you are able to hit the ball on a diagonal which can really confuse your opponent if you have the former service down. You can actually have the ball start with side spin and a little bit of under, but by the the second bounce it can be extremely dead with an awkward arc; much like knuckle balls from pips pushing sidespin.

I hear a lot of people tell me to hit on certain parts of the racket to produce different types of spin and while that is technically true, I don't think beginners should try it. The reason for different variations of spin is because without contact of the sweet spot you have less control in producing the exact shot you're planning on. I hope I'm getting across what I mean exactly, but I hope to do some videos soon to explain it a bit better.

YosuaYosan
01-18-2012, 07:53 AM
Good post, Sir Az!

Richard, there is reason why pros change the contact point on their serves.
Now you maybe could do it your way but I bet it won't get you to the top.
I've tried the same method as yours, turns out my no spin has backspin and my backspin is not heavy enough.

I have trained and tried the exact method Sir Az posted and I agreed with it, service is one of my strength in the game.
Talking about dwell time, the part of the racket is one key factor so you can't separate those two.

You heard a lot of people told you but I guess you are just stubborn, you even know that it is technically true. Its not because what they said (about racket's contact point) is not right but its you who don't want to change your mindset and train for it. The same goes to the pips discussion, you 'disagreed' pips because you can't play against one while in the same time you don't want to learn how to play against it.

Check this vid out, one of the greatest server:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949c0c7zdxk

Well I could hate math and physics for it is hard but I won't. I will learn.

Mr. RicharD
01-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Wow Yosua you took that whole debate out of proportion and never read the posts. I said I personally do not have problems with pips. I like to play against pips and know how to play against them. I also from time to time like to play with them.

As for service I know that I am correct because I have had Coaches from China and the U.S. all tell me that my service is very good for my skill level. As I cannot rally that well because I'm overweight I rely on my service for points and have had many high level players tell me that they find it hard to read my services.

I didn't mean any disrespect by it, but he made this post for beginners and what he is explaining is less consistent and intended for players at a much higher level than he was describing. I however am explaining the service taught by many coaches from China and the U.S. using the basics and physics of Table Tennis.

Point in Case Tang Peng's services.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=25Bbqh5uucA

Also Wang Hao's service.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDkIwqtqcEc&feature=g-vrec&context=G2853392RVAAAAAAAAAA

Anders
01-18-2012, 09:22 PM
I would like to say somethings about this thing... But first I have to make one thing clear: One are not a TT-God just because one is Chinese, as long as you don't have a name in TT, it does not matter where you come from. :)

Next:

Azlan, Richard, Yosua.. You are all right. In table tennis there is as many styles and techs as there are players. I must say that personally I use Azlans technique, but in the process to make good spin on that service I have to contact the ball for some time as Richard says. I think what Richard is trying to say is that we don't have to forgot to mention the impact time when making good spin. But also, I would like to say that this is for beginners as Richard also says. And my comment to that is: You cannot teach how to make more or less spin to a beginner! First, you'll have to teach them where and how to hit the ball to make different kinds of spin on the service.

Some players I know now has a really bad service because they first learned about impact time and such.. They always make serves that are difficult to read because they hit at the same place on the racket, but the service is always easy to flip or push the opponent out from the table with because of the low amount of spin. These are not amongst the top.

But the better players I play against has a motion that looks the same, but when I study their service from another angle, I can clearly see that they always hit on different spots of the racket when serving different spin. And now I'm talking national team members, so they are indeed good players.


So please do not say that there's only one right thing. Because in table tennis, it never is ;)

Mr. RicharD
01-18-2012, 11:21 PM
I agree with you there Anders. My personal preference is the Chinese style of service. They're able to do many different variations while still hitting in the same spot on the racket which in my opinion is more deceptive than hitting at different parts of the racket. While advanced players such as Schlager or some other Europeans can vary the location on the rubber with service it is clearly not how they first learned how to serve as their underspin services clearly hit the center of the racket as well as their topspins.

YosuaYosan
01-19-2012, 07:42 AM
Nah I won't continue the pips stuff. I know what I know.

azlan
01-19-2012, 12:52 PM
The reason I started the thread is to show some viewers A way of doing the nospin serves. I am sure there are many other ways. For years, this method works extremely well for me.

But when I travelled, playing against semi pro and pro players, they very seldom have any problem with serves. The diagram should help a little for the beginners and intermediate players who are still trying/finding their serves, at least they will have some idea on how to execute the serves. Once they get it, they may improvise and make it their own.

Mr. RicharD
01-19-2012, 07:28 PM
Hey azlan there's not doubting that people have many different ways to serve. I however believe that the way you're serving is at a much more advanced level than what you're target audience is. For most beginners that haven't established their services yet or have no foundation for basic serves placing the ball anywhere besides the sweet spot is a very dangerous habit. This is because those shots lack control and have a higher percentage of mi****ting or in this case missing service. At a more advanced level of play which I think we can all say you are playing at having been around for so many different changes as well as being trained in the Chinese style I just wanted to point out that those services are very advanced for a beginner just starting out trying to establish their style.

The Werner video is a perfect example of this as his services are considered some of the best in the world and he does the same things you've explained. There's no doubt that for an intermediate to advanced player they could try out your service, but for someone who hasn't even established what style they'd like I would go with the sweet spot and learn to have the ball dig into the sponge or just the topsheet.

That's just my personal opinion about the topic is all. It isn't clear exactly who your target audience was, but from how you phrased it I assumed beginners.

@ Yosua - You obviously haven't read the entire thread nor all of my posts. While I took responsibility for my lack of communication, I neither believe I'm as stubborn as you say nor that your opinion on the topic relates to this conversation. You act as though I've personally insulted you when I clearly wasn't intending to. If you took it that way then I apologize, but that discussion took place a while ago and I certainly believe I've made myself more clear in the more recent posts. As for this particular topic, I am more inclined to take the advice of coaches and professional players rather than someone I barely know over a forum. This was just my opinion on the topic and I think azlan gets that.

Anders
01-19-2012, 08:19 PM
I can just say; I started learning how to make a service with Azlans technique, and now I have quite decent services. If there is ONE thing that I make easy points by in a game, it is my variation in service.

As I have stated before, table tennis is individual and what might work for me might not work for anyone else ;)

dici
01-20-2012, 02:33 AM
My serve with spin may similar with azlan, but usually I will hit with either top or bottom edge of the paddle. Indeed, if i want to serve no or less spin, I will hit the ball right at the middle of paddle. As the paddle travel velocity is the least at that point to me >.>

Der_Echte
01-20-2012, 02:33 PM
To make a bottomspin serve short, you HAVE to make impact on the bottom axis of the ball, or even a tad in front. There is not way to make decent spin and still keep it short without this. That axis also extends to each side. Striking along this axis by tilting the head downwards is side/bottomspin which is easy to make short.

Striking behind the ball more gives more forward movement and makes the ball go deeper.

The key to making a good no-spin serve is to have a more open blade at impact, follow through right after contact with the wrist and arm to make it look like a cut serve. Open blade less or more to adjust for the depth and speed of the serve. Another way to make less spin closer to no-spin is to impact it on the blade closer to the thumb, where the blade is not moving nearly as fast. Trying to hit the ball on an extreme end of the blade can be tricky and I do not do this well myself, so I hit the middle as much as possible to be safer and rely on fooling the opponent with my service motion and followthrough.

As everyone else says, it is real important to have a fluid, smooth and fast service motion and be able to impact the ball at different points with different grazing to produce all the different curves, depths, spins, and bounce. I also agree it is important to be able to have more than one way to deliver the service motion.

I firmly believe that although heavy spin does not really win you points on serve vs the better players, you need to display the ability to do it, to make your other serves with less spin more effective, especially the no-spin or light bottomspin that looks so much like medium or heavy underspin at impact.

kiwiNCFC
01-20-2012, 08:07 PM
I love doing a no spin serve! I do the method that is shown on here and I trick so many people. I also disguise a b/h push serve but its actually got back spin on it but it looks like a plain push with no spin! I love it!

azlan
01-21-2012, 04:04 AM
Yeah I know what you mean :) when the ball pops up, you see them scouring back knowing the inevitable is about to happen hehehe

blahness
01-30-2012, 05:21 AM
My method of serving underspin/no-spin is different to all the methods shown above, it's a bit complicated, but it's smooth and pretty deceptive. The idea was copied from Hao Shuai. Basically when serving heavy underspin, you brush the bottom of the ball with a thin brush, then take it backwards, while using the pronation of the arm to make the bat look like you've contacted the ball at 90 degrees. For no-spin you pronate the arm during ball contact instead of after the ball contact(this destroys the thin brush action, causing very little spin to be generated).

Just talking about this is inspiring me to practise this serve combination again (heavy underspin/no-spin variation). It's really easy to keep this short compared to sidespinny services, and it's great for the 3rd ball attack due to the lack of sidespin which may introduce errors in your attack.

Der_Echte
01-30-2012, 09:46 AM
One of my topspin serves, I do like that blahness. My bat moves forward and under the ball just the same as cut serve, but at impact, I am drawing back the bat, which generates topspin. That used to be my best and most deceptive serve. I still get 1/2 of my club with this serve, but to 90% of the better players, it is no longer such a surprise. My other topspin serve is done like most FH pendulum side/top, where you contact side of the ball and are already brushing upwards at impact.

My best serve now is no-spin. Looks like cut, but is very light, practically no-spin. I get the high ball or a long ball every time, unless that top player saw it all the way and flicks it forward with an open bat. As long as I can keep it low enough, that flick doesn't happen. I do the no-spin serve pretty much like my cut serve, but at impact, I am not using much wrist, the blade is more open, and I immediately follow thorugh the ball (after it just left the bat). That serve motion uses the semi circle like in the standard FH pendulum serve. When you get your timing dowm, it can be downright difficult to tell if you impacted the ball behind or under the ball, since the swing is smooth, relatively fast, and the follow-through is a selling job.

Knuckle Ball
02-06-2012, 04:22 AM
Compared to the veterans here sharing their thoughts then I should be at around beginner level. I believe that service is one of the strong point in my game. I alway try to hit the sweet spot on every serve that I make like Mr RicharD, at times I hit on the bottom or top part of the blade not by design but by pure clumsiness. I have noticed that there is a marked difference on the serve when I accidentally do this. Having no formal coaching, I always thought that hitting the sweet spot is the only way to do it.

I believe that every sensei can master his own unique technique, like "different strokes for different folks", and every successful player can definitely share what works best for him.

My thanks to everyone for sharing their own expertise on the matter.

As to "Serving backspin and no spin" I will be definitely give equal effort to the techniques discussed above.

Knuckle Ball
02-06-2012, 04:28 AM
@Azlan
Thank you for the well illustrated basics of the "backspin and no spin service". I can really use this.
Can a 47 year old beginner still learn new tricks?

Knuckle Ball
02-06-2012, 06:08 AM
@Azlan
I vary the amount of spin on my serve by using different angles at the point of contact all the while trying to hit the sweet spot. Most of my backspin serve I do with my BH, how is it different from your illustration which seems to be done from the FH side? Any tips in doing it from the BH?

Rhydian
02-06-2012, 07:57 AM
Thanks Azlan for this thread and the other one. Because I am now improving my serves!

azlan
02-06-2012, 01:13 PM
@Azlan
I vary the amount of spin on my serve by using different angles at the point of contact all the while trying to hit the sweet spot. Most of my backspin serve I do with my BH, how is it different from your illustration which seems to be done from the FH side? Any tips in doing it from the BH?

Hi Knuckle Ball:)

Honestly doing a nospin on the BH can be tricky. Usually the underspin is done with a little side, but some may do pure underspins.
My FH nospin serve is actually a slight push (forward motion upon impact) with the downward motion after impact. The reason I hit on top of the blade is to minimize the accidental probability of grazing the ball too much which will cause the underspin. I've done a few nospin on my BH by using the same method but not perfectly as my FH.

What you can do buddy, is to push the ball lightly upon impact. You can finish the stroke with a feint side serve. It's tricky because with BH serve normally our wrist work will be slightly dampened. The trick is to figure out a way (your way:)) to fake the serve as if it was an underspin or sidespin serves. No spin serve is actually a plain push (some what a knuckle ball:)) Try the serve without the feint first, without the follow through.


Rhydian :Thanks Azlan for this thread and the other one. Because I am now improving my serves!

You're most welcome buddy:). I am sure you can do it better than I do with a lot more feint variety:)...

Rhydian
02-06-2012, 03:47 PM
(...)
You're most welcome buddy:). I am sure you can do it better than I do with a lot more feint variety:)...

I'll give my best this afternoon ;) and try to impress the more experienced players in the hall :)
What could be some exercices to get the feeling for the touching point? Except going to a table and do the serves?
I mean, it's frustrating when you don't touch most of the balls... Do you know something to improve that?

azlan
02-07-2012, 08:35 AM
I'll give my best this afternoon ;) and try to impress the more experienced players in the hall :)
What could be some exercices to get the feeling for the touching point? Except going to a table and do the serves?
I mean, it's frustrating when you don't touch most of the balls... Do you know something to improve that?

You're so right Rhydian, going to the table is the best way. :) Normally, I would tell the youngsters to forget about the styles that the pros use. Toss the ball (not too high) and serve plainly without the complicating the serves with the different styles.

My real advice is to serve as if you're a beginner, focusing on the point of contact and how you want to contact the ball and bat. Watch the ball upon impact and watch how it bounces to the other side. (I still do it for my practice) Another, is to rehearse the serve (the serving action) without the ball, imagining the point of contact. Once you get it, you may incorporate it into your serving style. :)

Rhydian
02-07-2012, 11:29 AM
You're so right Rhydian, going to the table is the best way. :) Normally, I would tell the youngsters to forget about the styles that the pros use. Toss the ball (not too high) and serve plainly without the complicating the serves with the different styles.

My real advice is to serve as if you're a beginner, focusing on the point of contact and how you want to contact the ball and bat. Watch the ball upon impact and watch how it bounces to the other side. (I still do it for my practice) Another, is to rehearse the serve (the serving action) without the ball, imagining the point of contact. Once you get it, you may incorporate it into your serving style. :)

Thanks, so I'm doing it right ;D

Knuckle Ball
02-09-2012, 04:58 AM
My thanks to Blahness for reminding that technique is 10 times more important than equipment. Reminds me to spend more time practicing my serves on the table than go EJ'ng and dreaming what blade and rubber would give the perfect serve.

Knuckle Ball
02-09-2012, 05:22 AM
@Azlan
The basics you provided is indeed working for me. Tried it out last night during a game, BH and FH serves work quite well with no spin and underspin. It still needs a lot of polishing, still leaves a lot to be desired, the important thing is I'm getting there . . . and I'm laughing all the way ha ha. Thanks to my online coach (can I call you that?)

azlan
02-09-2012, 08:16 AM
@Azlan
The basics you provided is indeed working for me. Tried it out last night during a game, BH and FH serves work quite well with no spin and underspin. It still needs a lot of polishing, still leaves a lot to be desired, the important thing is I'm getting there . . . and I'm laughing all the way ha ha. Thanks to my online coach (can I call you that?)

No worries knuckle ball, :) glad you're enjoying your TT. Just keep at it and you'll get a whole lot better. Here's a tip, get your heavy underspin right, and your opponents will start to worry about it (they'll start opening the bat more to lift the ball over the net). Once in awhile pop in the no spin, and they will go bananas and start running for covers!! :)

Michal_Z
02-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Question to the topic : Watch the video and tell me:
How does this Prokopcov serve?? It always seems that his hand is going away from the table during the contact and yet it appears to be a backspin serve!
I am really confused from his serves! Same serves served Ma Wenge years ago and I also never found out the trick..
Anyone knows whats this about ??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiKzc8O7lDQ

btw its a great match too ;)

azlan
02-21-2012, 09:37 AM
Quite simply most players do..he made the contact as normally people serve a backspin, and pulled his hand away a fraction just after the contact. Just the way Ma Lin does. :) He can varies it with a nospin serve as well by incorporating it with a gentle push.

Michal_Z
02-21-2012, 05:08 PM
I never saw the movement to the table.. :(
Am I too slow? :(

azlan
02-22-2012, 05:25 AM
I never saw the movement to the table.. :(
Am I too slow? :(

Hahaha I think the camera angle didn't do justice there buddy. I think if you play against him, you can spot it.:)

Knuckle Ball
02-23-2012, 10:15 PM
No worries knuckle ball, :) glad you're enjoying your TT. Just keep at it and you'll get a whole lot better. Here's a tip, get your heavy underspin right, and your opponents will start to worry about it (they'll start opening the bat more to lift the ball over the net). Once in awhile pop in the no spin, and they will go bananas and start running for covers!! :)

Hello Azlan

Your no spin/underspin serves are now officially the latest addition to my growing TT arsenal. HA HA HA I have not done it with a high toss though, I don't think I need to, It seems quite perfect as it is. I mix it with my sidespin-underspin serve from the BH. ha ha ha Keep your playing tips coming!

Thanks again Azlan. God bless

Mauno100
02-24-2012, 05:58 AM
Prokopcov is serving corkscrew backspin that's why it looks like that. It's the same as Samsonov or Maze's reverse.

azlan
02-24-2012, 08:11 AM
Hello Azlan

Your no spin/underspin serves are now officially the latest addition to my growing TT arsenal. HA HA HA I have not done it with a high toss though, I don't think I need to, It seems quite perfect as it is. I mix it with my sidespin-underspin serve from the BH. ha ha ha Keep your playing tips coming!

Thanks again Azlan. God bless
No worries Knuckle..glad to help, you'll realize you may do a lot of variation and drive your opponents crazy:)

azlan
02-24-2012, 08:12 AM
Prokopcov is serving corkscrew backspin that's why it looks like that. It's the same as Samsonov or Maze's reverse.

There we go, the pro has spoken. Thanx Roope:)

YosuaYosan
02-24-2012, 08:37 AM
Prokopcov is serving corkscrew backspin that's why it looks like that. It's the same as Samsonov or Maze's reverse.

Haa indeed :D
Thanks Sir!

UpSideDownCarl
02-24-2012, 02:29 PM
I think what I have to the conversation is worthwhile and simple. Practice. :) I personally love to practice serves. I try to do a couple of hours a week of just practicing serves, and a lot of time doing serve and receive drills where you are practicing your serves with an opponent returning them so that you have to be ready for what comes back, but you are not playing a match so you can really work on technique. I try and spend about 60-70% of my practice time doing serve and receive drills. But being on a table, alone and just practicing serves is really valuable. Then you start really being able to be creative with your serves.

Michal_Z
02-24-2012, 02:53 PM
Allright, what the hell does this word mean???
"corkscrew "

I have no idea..

UpSideDownCarl
02-24-2012, 03:18 PM
@ Azlan, thanks for starting this post. It is a great offering to help other people and inspire players giving us all something to practice while working on our serves more consistently.

@ Mr. RicharD:

I think, where your communications sometimes go wrong, has to do with attitude and personality in how you start your posts:


I kindly disagree with the motions and ball contacts and here's why.

So you started your post by basically saying, Azlan is wrong and everyone should listen to you instead of Azlan. Now maybe that is not your intention and I would rather give you the benefit of the doubt. And I don't think Azlan took it that way. But you are starting off very negatively and directing that negative remark towards someone who has provided information in the hope of being helpful to some of the players on the forum.

If your post started, like this instead: "Hey Azlan, that is a great technique and I think there are a lot of people out there who can benefit from it. And there are other techniques to accomplish this same effect. Here is how I do it and I was taught this by a coach who worked with the Chinese National Team....etc" then you are not creating an argument, and you are not presenting information as though other views are being criticized. You are simply stating another method that you feel is effective.

And since you do, very often start posts in an aggressive way, where you are saying someone else is WRONG, even if that is not really what you mean, it would make sense that sometimes people might get upset with you. I am sure you are coming from a good place in wanting to give information and help people, but very frequently you come off as though you think you are the ONLY authority on the subject and everyone else is wrong and you are often criticizing players who have been playing for longer than you and are at a higher level of play than you are. There are a few times where I saw that you started a post in a manner that was similar to the one I quoted above from this thread where the person you started off criticizing was a pretty high level player (professional level). I started realizing at a certain point that you mean well and that you don't even fully realize that you are starting off your posts by insulting someone. So I started ignoring that aspect of your posts and just reading the technical content that comes after. But it might be something worth looking at for you. It is a personality trait that I could see getting you into a lot of trouble and makes me understand this response from Yosua:


Good post, Sir Az!

Richard, there is reason why pros change the contact point on their serves.
Now you maybe could do it your way but I bet it won't get you to the top.
I've tried the same method as yours, turns out my no spin has backspin and my backspin is not heavy enough.

I have trained and tried the exact method Sir Az posted and I agreed with it, service is one of my strength in the game.
Talking about dwell time, the part of the racket is one key factor so you can't separate those two.

You heard a lot of people told you but I guess you are just stubborn, you even know that it is technically true. Its not because what they said (about racket's contact point) is not right but its you who don't want to change your mindset and train for it. The same goes to the pips discussion, you 'disagreed' pips because you can't play against one while in the same time you don't want to learn how to play against it.

Check this vid out, one of the greatest server:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=949c0c7zdxk

Well I could hate math and physics for it is hard but I won't. I will learn.


Wow Yosua you took that whole debate out of proportion and never read the posts.

The funny thing is, you still don't get how you insulted Yosua in that pips discussion. Now I did read all the posts and you did come around, change your attitude and make yourself clear by the end. I understand what you ultimately said, but, at the beginning and in the middle of that discussion you did insult a lot of people without necessarily realizing it. So it is not necessarily what you mean, but your confrontational attitude (which you may not be aware of) and how you seem to try and present yourself as an authority on the subject even though you are really not a very high rated player. And regardless of what your official rating is, and what your actual rating may or may not be, I have seen video footage of you hitting and you are not a very high rated player. Nothing wrong with that. It is good to be working on getting better. I am not going to claim I am a great player. I personally think that anyone who is below 2000-2100 (USATT rating) is at best an intermediate player and people only start being actually really solid, good players somewhere between 2000 and 2200. So I am comfortable with the idea that I have a lot to work on, improve, get better at and learn. And in seeing video footage of you hitting with a robot and a person feeding you balls, I am comfortable with the fact that you are a very knowledgeable player with a strong opinion who has a lot of work to do in order to improve your game (footwork, stroke mechanics, weight transfer (too much to the left not enough forward), ball contact, timing, eye hand coordination etc etc etc).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzhBozvQvE&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYs8CI1c9M&feature=player_embedded

And in the second video you can see the confrontational attitude. You had a point in telling your friend to keep the same camera angle and it was worth pointing it out, but it can be observed that you are confrontational in the way you ask your friend to hold the camera angle. That is why he was defensive in saying he was doing it, even though he was not keeping the camera angle. Your way of asking caused him to be defensive. Another person might have said it in such a way that he just did what was wanted without a defensive response. :)

All this being said, you have a lot to offer and I think a lot of people would be able to get more of what you have to offer if it was not such a frequent occurrence that you were starting things off by putting someone else down to try and prop yourself up.

azlan
02-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Allright, what the hell does this word mean???
"corkscrew "

I have no idea..
Hehehee how can I put it without you getting the wrong idea Michal:)
If you're a right handed player, imagine serving by using your BH. If I am your opponent, I will be seeing the ball coming at me as clockwise rotation.
1961
If I take the ball on the right hand side of the ball, it will go into the net.
If I take the ball on the left hand side of the ball, it will pop up for you to smash.
If I push, chop, lift without making any adjustments, the ball will go out at the side of the table.

UpSideDownCarl
02-24-2012, 06:55 PM
Allright, what the hell does this word mean???
"corkscrew "

I have no idea..

I will give a try at this. I am not sure if this is right but this is how I understood it.

In American football you can see a quarterback throw the ball and it spins. With a football you can see the axis of the spin because the ball has points at the front and back. When a quarterback throws a good, tight spiral, the ball is spinning well on that axis that goes from the front to the back of the ball. That would be a similar spin to one version of side spin in table tennis. Now the ball sometimes wobbles as it spins. It is spinning around an axis, and the axis is changing position/angle. With a corkscrew spin, I believe that the ball is spinning on an axis and the axis is changing position, I think it is usually in a small circular pattern like that wobbling spiral on the poorly thrown football. So at one point in the movement of the ball, it could be sidespin with backspin, and at another point it could be sidespin with topspin and if the axis moves enough the sidespin could, theoretically, change directions; ie: clockwise to counterclockwise or vice versa; like from pendulum to reverse pendulum sidespin.

I don't personally know how to create that effect. But the theory sounds cool to me. :) Again, I could be wrong but I think that is what a corkscrew spin is: the ball is spinning and the axis of the spin is also changing.

azlan
02-25-2012, 06:02 AM
It's like a bullet leaving the barrel:) I think....