The new TT Techniques

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Hi everybody,

I notice a continuos evolution of the technique of the strokes in our sport. We are today at the quickest, fastest improvement of playing TT.
Most of the services are long in order to invite the opponent to open and on this return to flash the ball with a counter topspin or a smash-block.
Also the position of the players is more near to the table.
The techniques, in view of the movements, are faster, are shorter and the ball is hitted as soon as possible, before it reaches the highest point after rebound. Forehand and backhand!
Japanese and probably Koreans are the improvers, but I can imagine that Chinese are also behind it.

It was for me very interesting to see the change in Ma Long (I believe to have seen it) in matters with his backhand and therefore his position to the table (not so far away as before the injuries).

So, the questions are: who knows about it? When someone (CHN, J, KOR, others?) will talk about it?

We had the first big change with the banana flick, performed and magnified perfectly by ZJK 10 or more years ago.
Then we had the plastic ball twice: plastics and ABS. Parallel to this changes the athletic aspect growt so much!
Where we are going now? and tomorrow?
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Too young. Read up on the history of Chiquita.
 
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I think it was korbel that started to use the banana flip. But Maybe zj perfected it.

I think that if someone Tries something and people notice that it works well they Will start doing it aswell.

I think people Will start serve more bh. Even more long to avoid the flip. I think the men Will play more and more as the womens game. People Maybe Will start doing the strawberry. I think players Will have more bh grip that favors bh oriented game and i think players in the future Will have reallly good backhands. I also think We Will see more players with short pimple after Falcks success.

Would be interesting to see What would happened if the chinese start to lose. Then the sport Will really develop.
 
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Tennis...
 
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I can agree with Lula's post.
There are many little things that were introduced in this years (5 ... 8 years?), like the longer services, services with upper rotation, bh-flick + variations (fruit variations :p) like bananas and strawberrys, but also sidespin in the answers by short-short, the use of hardest countertopspin on the table with the bh and fh, the use of placements on the sides of the table with extrem outgoing angles (more near the net), the block of topspins killing the rotation in order to give a dead ball, the continuos change of the pace in all situations, also challenging far away of the table, also the smashed block (like TH), the chop block (like KN), the perfect use of the geometry of the table (edges, balls alongside the table as deterrent or inhibitor of aggressive play), and so other details in service, in half distance game, etc.

So many possibilities! Most of this variations remains unseen if you don't use the rallenty to see precise what was/is going on.

The abilities to learn are so much!

I don't know if China will lose or not, at the moment probably not, due to the possibilities (economical, technical, managerial, improvement strength, Liu Goliang...) and the quantity of players they have. Sure is that the pressure is so high that Olympics are less stressful as an internal Championship or Tournament in Cina. Probably in Japan it's going on the same situation as in Cina.

Technique is still changing and adapting to the ball, improving all possibilities...


Hope the ball doesn't change anymore, also for the other rules I hope no changes, but... who knows
 
I can agree with Lula's post.
There are many little things that were introduced in this years (5 ... 8 years?), like the longer services, services with upper rotation, bh-flick + variations (fruit variations :p) like bananas and strawberrys, but also sidespin in the answers by short-short, the use of hardest countertopspin on the table with the bh and fh, the use of placements on the sides of the table with extrem outgoing angles (more near the net), the block of topspins killing the rotation in order to give a dead ball, the continuos change of the pace in all situations, also challenging far away of the table, also the smashed block (like TH), the chop block (like KN), the perfect use of the geometry of the table (edges, balls alongside the table as deterrent or inhibitor of aggressive play), and so other details in service, in half distance game, etc.

So many possibilities! Most of this variations remains unseen if you don't use the rallenty to see precise what was/is going on.

The abilities to learn are so much!

I don't know if China will lose or not, at the moment probably not, due to the possibilities (economical, technical, managerial, improvement strength, Liu Goliang...) and the quantity of players they have. Sure is that the pressure is so high that Olympics are less stressful as an internal Championship or Tournament in Cina. Probably in Japan it's going on the same situation as in Cina.

Technique is still changing and adapting to the ball, improving all possibilities...


Hope the ball doesn't change anymore, also for the other rules I hope no changes, but... who knows

Pretty much all of that has existed in the game for decades. Every type of those shots (maybe except the strawberry), every geometry, every variation none of these are particularly new, certainly not a single one introduced in the last 5 to 8 years.

The only things in there that are even remotely new are the banana and strawberry flicks. And the banana flip has been standardised for about a decade now.

The real changes in the last decade or so have been more of a standardisation of the game more than anything.

Helped by the new ball (bouncing higher, spinning less and heavier), the game is more aggressively oriented than ever before, and the sport is more physical than ever before. The shots we play are still the same, there is just alot less defensive play, it's become very standard to get on the attack as soon as possible. The serve is increasingly seen as something to be attacked, rather than something of an advantage to the server.

Long serves ARE a bit more prevalent than they used to be, precisely because banana flips are so common now. It's to punish the player blindly stepping in to flick every serve, to "keep them honest" as it were. They are still nothing like "most serves".

The game does demand a stronger backhand. But these are not new shots. It's just everyone HAS to have all the attacking shots on both sides now (only at the top level obviously). Increasingly, you can't afford not to have a banana flick, a big backhand loop kill, a forhand flip and a big forehand loop kill. You HAVE to be able to loop off both sides, flick of both sides, and counter off both sides. You HAVE to be able to vary your serves or you will get flicked off the table, you HAVE to mix in good long serves. And you now HAVE to have the physicallity to play the modern game.

We arn't really getting many new things introduced, the game meta has just become more demanding of all the basic attacking tools. You now can't expect to be able to get away with not having ANY of the basic shots on both sides, or the physicallity to compete at that level. Like pretty much any maturing modern sport.
 
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Pretty much all of that has existed in the game for decades. Every type of those shots (maybe except the strawberry), every geometry, every variation none of these are particularly new, certainly not a single one introduced in the last 5 to 8 years.

The only things in there that are even remotely new are the banana and strawberry flicks. And the banana flip has been standardised for about a decade now.

The real changes in the last decade or so have been more of a standardisation of the game more than anything.

Helped by the new ball (bouncing higher, spinning less and heavier), the game is more aggressively oriented than ever before, and the sport is more physical than ever before. The shots we play are still the same, there is just alot less defensive play, it's become very standard to get on the attack as soon as possible. The serve is increasingly seen as something to be attacked, rather than something of an advantage to the server.

Long serves ARE a bit more prevalent than they used to be, precisely because banana flips are so common now. It's to punish the player blindly stepping in to flick every serve, to "keep them honest" as it were. They are still nothing like "most serves".

The game does demand a stronger backhand. But these are not new shots. It's just everyone HAS to have all the attacking shots on both sides now (only at the top level obviously). Increasingly, you can't afford not to have a banana flick, a big backhand loop kill, a forhand flip and a big forehand loop kill. You HAVE to be able to loop off both sides, flick of both sides, and counter off both sides. You HAVE to be able to vary your serves or you will get flicked off the table, you HAVE to mix in good long serves. And you now HAVE to have the physicallity to play the modern game.

We arn't really getting many new things introduced, the game meta has just become more demanding of all the basic attacking tools. You now can't expect to be able to get away with not having ANY of the basic shots on both sides, or the physicallity to compete at that level. Like pretty much any maturing modern sport.

Probably your pov is not so far o mine (or viceversa).
If you are very close to the good players and you will have introspection in the International world you will have seen all the points (and sure more) I have listed! Your statement is right!
But, if you do not have the knowledge to see and so to understand the diffences (big or small they are) you will never have the possibility to make own this knoledge.

My post was more oriented to point out this "things", less to be the one with the big knoledge.
Hope we haven't a misunderstanding... :)
 
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what I see is that the quantity of long(er) services are more then years ago. It doen't mean that short services are no more interesting, but, as Hysteresis wrote ("Long serves ARE a bit more prevalent than they used to be, precisely because banana flips are so common now. It's to punish the player blindly stepping in to flick every serve, to "keep them honest" as it were."), the prevalence of it is higher due to avoid attacks over the table (banana- or strawberry- flicks) that stresses in matters of time and tactics who has served. Even here the game is to use (also) the geometry of the table in order to avoid first attacks.

Due to this balls and variations of, it is no more clear that attacking is better than controlling. Years ago it was better defined: attaccking was better than controlling (my opinion). Harimoto and some other japanese players are very good in control and playing out the opponent. Cinese have no create copies of TH (I haven't see someone, but will say nothing...) and also the trend in Cina is to apply pure attack (see LJK, ML, FZD, FB, etc).

ML is faster than ever with his bh, also the fh is a little different as before... adjustments for the near future?
And this just after his injuries... for me it's not casuality.

TT is changing continuosly, I see it so! :)
 
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But i think We can not deny that We Will se more and more long serves to counter the bananflip. I am surprised with how little they serve long. If you almost always know the serve Will be shot it is easier to Do a good flip.
With less spin it is also proably easier to counterattack/loop aswell so that also is in favor of long serves.
 
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Some stats.

For Sydney Olympics, Waldner served long 34 times out of 60 total in 3 games against LGL in the SF. In contrast, he served long 10 times out of 90 total in 5 games against KLH in the F.

http://www.chinatyxk.com/editer/doc/2006841739512920.pdf
vFhCyd2.png


 
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Some stats.

For Sydney Olympics, Waldner served long 34 times out of 60 total in 3 games against LGL in the SF. In contrast, he served long 10 times out of 90 total in 5 games against KLH in the F.

http://www.chinatyxk.com/editer/doc/2006841739512920.pdf
cache.php



I think to be fair, we all mean "more long serves, than have been served in the last decade or so".

In the era of not that much video analysis in the game, the prevalence of penholders without an RPB, and players with glaring weaknesses on one side, players who play alot more blocking and control and people were alot more worried about not being able to outright return the serve than killing the point on the receive. It was still kinda the wild west of professional table tennis, you could get away doing unusual things alot more.

I think long serves stopped being a thing because standardisation of skillsets had already started to become a thing pretty much around the time of the Sydney Olympics (ball changes, service rules changes, technological improvements in both video and playing equipment, fewer penholders).

It just became increasingly expected that if you served long even if to the backhand (I notice the stats say waldner served long to the left corner some 20% of the time, and not commonly long anywhere else), and the receiver is expecting it, you are in trouble. So naturally, long serves became rarer, just something to suprise the receiver.

Obviously this is an increase of long serves over the period that we expect the receiver to very much be able to put away the long serve, forehand or backhand. Not compared to what is essentially the wild west, where the receiver wouldn't necessarily be looking to, or even be able to, put away any anticipated long serve.
 
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If anything, the stats actually indicate there has been a sharp decrease in long serves. Players still serve to the short center the most, but serves to the short FH has increased.

WTTC 1997, Men's Team QF & SF, Wang Tao, KLH, Waldner, Persson, KTS, YNK
tLrQIsZ.png

Code:
+-----------+--------+-------+-----+-------+---------+-------+---------+-------+--------+-------+--------+-----+-----------+
|           | Wang T |   %   | KLH |   %   | Waldner |   %   | Persson |   %   | Kim TS |   %   | Yoo NK |  %  | Average % |
+-----------+--------+-------+-----+-------+---------+-------+---------+-------+--------+-------+--------+-----+-----------+
| Short L   |      5 |  3.97 |  23 | 16.55 |      10 |  9.52 |      23 | 24.73 |      2 |  6.45 |      2 |  10 |     11.87 |
| Short CTR |     88 | 69.84 |  73 | 52.52 |      61 | 58.10 |      40 | 43.01 |     14 | 45.16 |     13 |  65 |     55.60 |
| Short R   |     14 | 11.11 |  21 | 15.11 |       5 |  4.76 |      11 | 11.83 |      8 | 25.81 |      1 |   5 |     12.27 |
| Deep L    |      3 |  2.38 |  16 | 11.51 |      17 | 16.19 |      11 | 11.83 |      3 |  9.68 |      3 |  15 |     11.10 |
| Deep CTR  |      8 |  6.35 |   4 |  2.88 |       9 |  8.57 |       7 |  7.53 |      2 |  6.45 |      0 |   0 |      5.30 |
| Deep R    |      8 |  6.35 |   2 |  1.44 |       3 |  2.86 |       1 |  1.08 |      2 |  6.45 |      1 |   5 |      3.86 |
+-----------+--------+-------+-----+-------+---------+-------+---------+-------+--------+-------+--------+-----+-----------+
| Total     |    126 |   100 | 139 |   100 |     105 |   100 |      93 |   100 |     31 |   100 |     20 | 100 |       100 |
+-----------+--------+-------+-----+-------+---------+-------+---------+-------+--------+-------+--------+-----+-----------+

WTTC 2017, Men's QF, among ML, FZD, XX, LSS, Niwa, WCT, Boll, Harimoto
ujaVn5l.png
 
I think 1997 is not so interesting of a comparison, being pre-Sydney. I wonder if there are stats more on the ZJK/WH/ML era say somewhere between 2005-2015, since I expect that's when the sharp decline in long serves would have kicked in. I feel like the everyone started to play a more similar attacking game about that time. And maybe long serves have increased compared to a possible sharp decline in that period, rather than the more messy time before that.

Then again, I don't have stats, it may well just be a constant decline in long serves as the game has modernised. Stats would be interesting though.
 
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I believe one of the women's semifinals in WTTC 2019 had quite a few long serves. I believe it was Chen Meng vs. Wang Manyu. Not sure if this is a typical game or not.
 
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