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driversbeat
07-02-2019, 10:12 AM
Youtube please

Tempest/Comet
07-07-2019, 06:57 AM
After Korea, counting the best 7 results(since Ito only has 7), the usable points for January 2020 are

Ito 8505, Hirano 8290, Ishikawa 7540.

The point spread between Ito-Ishikawa remains the same since both came off at QF. Ishikawa gained 1 round on Hirano by 180 pts. After Australia, we can start using best 8, plus T2 bonus pts.
Six months, 3 Platinum & 3 WT, 3 T2 bonus rounds, World Cup and ITTF GF left.

Tempest/Comet
07-07-2019, 07:04 AM
19463
Hayata at home in Fukuoka on her 19th birthday July 7.
(there may be up to another 10 more yrs to watch her grow/advance and play, a very entertaining thought indeed).

yoass
07-07-2019, 07:37 AM
Or another 36 years, following the path of Ni. Different times maybe, but not all things change that quickly.

apacible
07-08-2019, 05:16 PM
Standings after Korean Open
19472
Hope the new design of the spreadsheet will make the data more presentable. Note that all players have reached the maximum 8 event limit except Ito who has 7 events. Top 8 event points for each player are highlighted in yellow. Top 2 players in standings are highlighted in green.

Looking ahead to the Australian Open:

The potential R16 matchup between Ito and Hirano has major Olympic qualification implications. Given that this is a Platinum event and that Ishikawa has qualified for the first T2 event, the loser of this match may be at a greater risk of losing her spot to Ishikawa.
JTTA drops Ishikawa/Yoshimura XD pair from the Australian open entry list. I recall that this pairing was entered to play both in Korea and Australia, so I was a bit surprised to see the pair dropped from the entry list. I'm not sure when or why the cancellation was made. It may a sign that JTTA does not really see this pairing as a viable pairing in the Olympics compared to other possible combinations (The pair did have a surprise early exit in the Korea open after all) or maybe Ishikawa and Yoshimura just wanted to focus on singles this tournament. JTTA chose to keep the Ito/Mizutani pairing though, which makes sense given they the pairing exceeded expectations in the Korean Open by defeating the Lin/Cheng pairing and giving the Xu/Liu pairing a good fight.
Hayata draws a Chinese opponent in qualifications yet again. At this point, it's going to be tough for Hayata to catch up in ranking in time for the Jan. 2020 cut-off date, so playing as many quality opponents as possible and doing well against these opponents is an opportunity for Hayata to build her case to be chosen as the 3rd Team member.

Vlad Celler
07-08-2019, 05:34 PM
Thank you very much ! Very interesting information and analysis!

driversbeat
07-09-2019, 12:19 AM
Ito's Portugal Open score is 0, so I assume the Australian open will be her 8th event?

Still scratching my head over Japan's womens doubles pairings. Shibata, Nagasaki and Kihara don't really have a realistic chance at 2020 as of now

apacible
07-09-2019, 03:50 AM
Ito's Portugal Open score is 0, so I assume the Australian open will be her 8th event?

Still scratching my head over Japan's womens doubles pairings. Shibata, Nagasaki and Kihara don't really have a realistic chance at 2020 as of now

Yup, Australian Open will be Ito’s 8th event. I had to place the 0 in the spreadsheet so that the excel function highlighting the top 8 results in yellow would work. It won’t work with only 7 events inputted.

I have the same sentiments with regard to the Women’s doubles pairings. I don’t mind the Kihara/Nagasaki pairing since it’s a young pairing that has the potential to develop to be a formidable doubles pair in the future. However, I think the other doubles slot could have been used to test out a more realistic pairing for the olympics. I would have thought that JTTA would try out the Hayata/Hirano pairing or give more tournaments to Ishikawa/Hirano pair to figure things out. Given that Hayata, Hirano and Ishikawa are only playing singles in the Australian Open, I don’t think adding an extra Women’s doubles event would exhaust them too much.

TeoTeoTeo
07-09-2019, 04:50 AM
Who does hayata face if she makes it through qualifications?

Tempest/Comet
07-09-2019, 04:56 AM
Ito's Portugal Open score is 0, so I assume the Australian open will be her 8th event?

Still scratching my head over Japan's womens doubles pairings. Shibata, Nagasaki and Kihara don't really have a realistic chance at 2020 as of now
JNT hasn’t use the Ito/Hayata combo since WTTC in April. That’a a total of 5 major asiatic region tournaments, China, HK, Japan, Korea, Australia. Something’s afoot.

zeio
07-09-2019, 06:03 AM
JNT is likely doing that in protest.

TeoTeoTeo
07-09-2019, 03:03 PM
JNT is likely doing that in protest.

Against what? CNT? Hayata? Ito?

zeio
07-09-2019, 03:14 PM
Against what? CNT? Hayata? Ito?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjrbDW0VJBY&list=PL9EFgw_X3V0yHoqKg-CrfxsExYtixyz1r&index=66

karupinkun
07-09-2019, 08:53 PM
other then ito i think hayata has the most potential to beat the chinese players. She is very unlucky with her draws in 2019. This year she has only lost 1 game to a non chinese player on the world tour. Other then that she went 13-0 and MVP in the japanese league, but lost an already "won" game against kato miyu on the japanese wttc-tryouts.

I could be wrong but i feel other then Ito and hayata all other japanese players instantly lose against every chinese player. Even if they are 2nd or 3rd string players.

pongfugrasshopper
07-09-2019, 09:04 PM
Aside from Sato beating DN, I agree with you.

TeoTeoTeo
07-10-2019, 06:42 AM
other then ito i think hayata has the most potential to beat the chinese players. She is very unlucky with her draws in 2019. This year she has only lost 1 game to a non chinese player on the world tour. Other then that she went 13-0 and MVP in the japanese league, but lost an already "won" game against kato miyu on the japanese wttc-tryouts.

I could be wrong but i feel other then Ito and hayata all other japanese players instantly lose against every chinese player. Even if they are 2nd or 3rd string players.

Especially Ishikawa. She just crumbles to any chinese player

Tempest/Comet
07-10-2019, 07:19 AM
Hmmm...with LSW’s withdrawal, there is no seeded top Chinese in Ito-Hirano quarter. Opportunity beckons. This makes the Ito-Hirano match even more intriguing and enticing to watch.

Vlad Celler
07-10-2019, 07:45 AM
Hmmm...with LSW’s withdrawal, there is no seeded top Chinese in Ito-Hirano quarter. Opportunity beckons. This makes the Ito-Hirano match even more intriguing and enticing to watch.

.......with LSW’s withdrawal....
???

Vlad Celler
07-10-2019, 07:52 AM
By the way, Hayata in the rating for August may rise slightly upwards - approximately nr.34 ...And in the September rankings, theoretically, a place can get 29-30 ....
But this is not because of the game, but because of the subtraction of old bonuses for those who were higher ....:(

zeio
07-10-2019, 08:01 AM
By the way, Hayata in the rating for August may rise slightly upwards - approximately nr.34 ...And in the September rankings, theoretically, a place can get 29-30 ....
But this is not because of the game, but because of the subtraction of old bonuses for those who were higher ....:(

Still not getting anywhere.

Jacky Kwok
07-10-2019, 04:39 PM
It’s interesting that JNT never tests mix double with Hirano. They basically tested all the left/right hand combinations of the Olympics contenders: Harimoto/Ishikawa, Harimoto/Hayata, Yoshimura/Ishikawa, Niwa/Ito, Mizutani/Ito. And actually I want to see how it will look like for Yoshimura/Hayata.

Tempest/Comet
07-10-2019, 04:43 PM
It’s interesting that JNT never tests mix double with Hirano. They basically tested all the left/right hand combinations of the Olympics contenders: Harimoto/Ishikawa, Harimoto/Hayata, Yoshimura/Ishikawa, Niwa/Ito, Mizutani/Ito. And actually I want to see how it will look like for Yoshimura/Hayata.
They did. Japan Op 2018. Lost in the 2nd round, with Harimoto.

Jacky Kwok
07-10-2019, 04:56 PM
That was a long time ago and I think that was more to prepare for the Junior Olympics at that time.

They should try to pair Hirano with lefty like Niwa and Mizutani.

Jacky Kwok
07-10-2019, 05:12 PM
By the way, Ishikawa is so lucky to draw to the only quarter without a CNT for the Australia Open Single. So she will high likely be advanced to quarter final. On the other hand either Ito or Hirano will not make it to quarter final (or maybe both cannot if they lose to Qian Tianyi).

Janard
07-10-2019, 11:36 PM
By the way, Ishikawa is so lucky to draw to the only quarter without a CNT for the Australia Open Single. So she will high likely be advanced to quarter final. On the other hand either Ito or Hirano will not make it to quarter final (or maybe both cannot if they lose to Qian Tianyi).

Hmm? Isn't she in the same quarter as Chen Meng?

Jacky Kwok
07-11-2019, 01:35 AM
Sorry, I mean the section of quarter final, i.e. half of a quarter. How to call it? Something like an octa?

pongfugrasshopper
07-11-2019, 01:45 AM
Sorry, I mean the section of quarter final, i.e. half of a quarter. How to call it? Something like an octa?
You can say no CNT through the round of 16 (aka R16).

I think DN is pretty lucky due to LSW's withdrawal. She has a comparatively easy path to the Semi Finals.

zeio
07-11-2019, 07:05 AM
Sorry, I mean the section of quarter final, i.e. half of a quarter. How to call it? Something like an octa?

half(半區), quarter(四分一區), 8th(八分一區), 16th(十六分一區), 32nd(三十二分一區)...

Tempest/Comet
07-11-2019, 07:40 AM
Edit oops used old (wrong chart) sorry !

ok...let's try this again.
After Australia Op r32, possible points progression (to QF)

Ito 9180 > 9405 > 9630
Hirano 8965 > 9190> 9415
Ishikawa 8245 > 8440 > 8665
of course only either Ito or Hirano can progress, and only a chopper can spoil Ishikawa's dream to QF.

Vlad Celler
07-11-2019, 08:23 AM
Sorry ?
Platinium (2019)
R32 los - 675
R16 los - 900
QF los -1125
SW los -1465
runner/finalist - 1800/2250

apacible
07-11-2019, 12:03 PM
This is a reply to Nemo's post in the Australian Open 2019 thread regarding M. Yoshimura's chances to make the Olympics. I decided to post here as to not derail the Australian Open 2019 thread and since the team composition for the Japan Men's Team will affect who is selected for the Women's Team anyway due to the new mixed doubles event.

I think Yoshimura's chance to make the Olympic Team is also dependent on how much importance JTTA gives to team seeding. Right now, the Japan's Men's team is seeded 2nd with Germany seeded at 3rd. However, ITTF usually seeds team events based on the WR of the top 3 entered players of the team. This means that Yoshimura's low WR will pull down Japan's seeding from 2nd seed to 3rd or 4th seed during the Olympics. I can explain the intricacies of world team ranking if you want, but long story short: if Japan with Harimoto, Yoshimura, and Niwa or Mizutani plays against Germany with Boll, Dima, and Franziska in a virtual computer simulated match, the computer will predict Germany to win based on the world ranking of the top 3 players fielded by each team, so Germany would be seeded higher than Japan.

This was the reason why the Japan Women's Team was seeded 1st in the World Team Cup last year while the Chinese Women's team was seeded 2nd despite China's team ranking being World No. 1. During that tournament, China left out then World No. 1 Chen Meng from the team. China's top 3 players based on WR were Zhu Yuling, Chen Xingtong and Wang Manyu (Ding Ning and Liu Shiwen were ranked low due to lack of participation). Because of this, the computer predicted that Japan would beat China in a virtual match due to the higher WR of Japan's top 3 players of Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano, so Japan was seeded 1.

If Japan wants to avoid China till the the final, being seeded 2nd and sending Harimoto, Niwa and Mizutani is the only way to guarantee this. If Japan is seeded 3rd or 4th, there's a 50% chance they meet China in the SF. Of course, seeding is meaningless if the players selected don't deliver, but I'm sure JTTA is still considering this scenario when selecting the team.

Right now, the biggest non-Chinese threat to the Japan Men's Team is Germany. The doubles pairing of Boll/Franziska is one of the best doubles pairings right now and I think if Japan faces Germany, Germany will most likely win doubles whether or not Yoshimura is selected. This means that Japan needs to win 3 of 4 singles matches. Does Japan just sacrifice doubles and strengthen their chances to win 3 of 4 singles matches, or will they try to win the doubles match while weakening their singles despite still being the underdog in doubles against Boll/Franziska? These are tough decisions JTTA must answer by Jan. 2020. Other dangerous teams for Japan include Korea, Sweden and Taiwan, all of which have strong doubles pairings and have singles players that can defeat the players of Japan.

In my opinion, JTTA should test Yoshimura/Niwa or Yoshimura/Mizutani pairings on the World Tour to see if these doubles combinations do significantly better than the other men’s doubles pairings they have tested. If these doubles pairings containing Yoshimura only do slightly better, then maybe it may not be worth the seeding drop and the weakening of singles level of the team. However, if Yoshimura pairs well with either Mizutani or Niwa, and especially if Yoshimura can have solid singles results, you can make the case of including Yoshimura on the team.

Maybe I should do a "Race to Tokyo 2020 Men's Singles edition." :) Right now, I'd say Niwa has the slight edge over Mizutani due to a better WTTC result and due to the fact that Niwa is playing the World Cup while Mizutani isn't.

Vlad Celler
07-11-2019, 12:41 PM
Great analysis!

Nemo
07-11-2019, 01:00 PM
Very indepth and informative. Thanks, apacible!
I didn't consider the team seeding at all. Makes a lot of sense!

karupinkun
07-11-2019, 01:40 PM
Has JNT ever tried teaming up Hayata and Yoshimura? They could nominate their two best mens and womans single players and would have one "double specialist" on each team.

Sali
07-11-2019, 02:17 PM
I think Yoshimura's chance to make the Olympic Team is also dependent on how much importance JTTA gives to team seeding. Right now, the Japan's Men's team is seeded 2nd with Germany seeded at 3rd. However, ITTF usually seeds team events based on the WR of the top 3 entered players of the team. This means that Yoshimura's low WR will pull down Japan's seeding from 2nd seed to 3rd or 4th seed during the Olympics. I can explain the intricacies of world team ranking if you want, but long story short: if Japan with Harimoto, Yoshimura, and Niwa or Mizutani plays against Germany with Boll, Dima, and Franziska in a virtual computer simulated match, the computer will predict Germany to win based on the world ranking of the top 3 players fielded by each team, so Germany would be seeded higher than Japan.

If Japan wants to avoid China till the the final, being seeded 2nd and sending Harimoto, Niwa and Mizutani is the only way to guarantee this. If Japan is seeded 3rd or 4th, there's a 50% chance they meet China in the SF. Of course, seeding is meaningless if the players selected don't deliver, but I'm sure JTTA is still considering this scenario when selecting the team.

Right now, the biggest non-Chinese threat to the Japan Men's Team is Germany. The doubles pairing of Boll/Franziska is one of the best doubles pairings right now and I think if Japan faces Germany, Germany will most likely win doubles whether or not Yoshimura is selected. This means that Japan needs to win 3 of 4 singles matches. Does Japan just sacrifice doubles and strengthen their chances to win 3 of 4 singles matches, or will they try to win the doubles match while weakening their singles despite still being the underdog in doubles against Boll/Franziska? These are tough decisions JTTA must answer by Jan. 2020. Other dangerous teams for Japan include Korea, Sweden and Taiwan, all of which have strong doubles pairings and have singles players that can defeat the players of Japan.

In my opinion, JTTA should test Yoshimura/Niwa or Yoshimura/Mizutani pairings on the World Tour to see if these doubles combinations do significantly better than the other men’s doubles pairings they have tested. If these doubles pairings containing Yoshimura only do slightly better, then maybe it may not be worth the seeding drop and the weakening of singles level of the team. However, if Yoshimura pairs well with either Mizutani or Niwa, and especially if Yoshimura can have solid singles results, you can make the case of including Yoshimura on the team.

Maybe I should do a "Race to Tokyo 2020 Men's Singles edition." :) Right now, I'd say Niwa has the slight edge over Mizutani due to a better WTTC result and due to the fact that Niwa is playing the World Cup while Mizutani isn't.

There is just one thing to mention. It is still long time for the olympics, so if Yoshimura performs well, he can overcome franziska in world ranking by that time and if they choose harimoto and Mizutani/niwa it should be enough.
The other thing is how the others perform and how it will affect their ranking. Most of mentioned players are far from beeing in good shape and it makes the loose a lot.
Mizutani - last two tournaments did not get any points because he already lost in 1 round to non chinese player
Harimoto - same as Mizutani
Niwa - same as above.
If they continue like this all of them will drop in ranking.
While at the same time Timo performance is quite good and franziska as well. Dima is very unpredictable I haven't seen him playing top level since he was world no.1
So it means we have to just wait and mostly good performance will matters, speculation we can leave till the end.

Jacky Kwok
07-12-2019, 05:24 AM
Ito just won Hirano!

zeio
07-12-2019, 05:30 AM
She has to win. She needs the points. Ishikawa and Hirano have the huge World Cup buffer. Now that Ishikawa will play in Malaysia, Ito needs to widen her lead as much as possible.

Vlad Celler
07-12-2019, 05:46 AM
She has to win. She needs the points. Ishikawa and Hirano have the huge World Cup buffer. Now that Ishikawa will play in Malaysia, Ito needs to widen her lead as much as possible.

Will the old points for the World Cup be updated?

Tempest/Comet
07-12-2019, 05:49 AM
While Hirano would still have a 525 pt lead over Ishikawa exiting at r16, Ito just going even with Ishikawa to QF, thus having a lead of 965 pts is not enough to cover the World Cup shortfall. I really hope Ito can push onto the SF, for a 1305 pt lead. That would cover/equate to a QF finish in WC.

zeio
07-12-2019, 06:08 AM
Will the old points for the World Cup be updated?

The points from 2018 will get replaced, and so the point gap b/w 2018 and 2019 doesn't matter.

What matters is for the points gained in 2019, how much headroom Ito needs to secure, that is, the gap needed to account for the likely finishing positions in World Cup 2019 for Ishikawa and Hirano, and how many points are available for them to grab before the end of 2019.

Vlad Celler
07-12-2019, 06:11 AM
While Hirano would still have a 525 pt lead over Ishikawa exiting at r16, Ito just going even with Ishikawa to QF, thus having a lead of 965 pts is not enough to cover the World Cup shortfall. I really hope Ito can push onto the SF, for a 1305 pt lead.

The probability that Ishikawa will lose to Cheng Meng is very high ...:o



Ishikawa - 12468 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
C.I.C. - 11790 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
Hirano - 11650 + result in T-2 (400-1000)

Ito - it all depends on the results of the quarter finals and especially the semi-finals (if Ito reaches the semi-finals ...)
If she loses in QF - 11970 + result in T-2 (400-1000)
If she wins and enters the semifinal - 12310 + result in T-2 (400-1000)

(I must say that, despite the Asian Cup, Ito has some advantage over Ishikawa in August ....Deductions of old bonuses ....)

Tempest/Comet
07-12-2019, 06:25 AM
ALL the 2018 pts (except the WTTC) means absolutely NOTHING, for deciding who gets the spots for singles in January 2020.
as for seeding Ishikawa will never have the shielding of a quarter again like before, now that CNT has locked up the top 6 positions, plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’.

zeio
07-12-2019, 06:48 AM
Right. Forget the deductions. Seeding would hardly differ. Luck becomes a factor, now that China is actively "looking to sabotage" Japan's game plan. Things are getting dirty and ugly here.

Vlad Celler
07-12-2019, 07:12 AM
.... plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’....:)

That's right ... All these old bonuses have some meaning only for calculating the current ITTF ratings for 2019, nothing more ....

Tempest/Comet
07-12-2019, 07:29 AM
If a preemptive strike were to happen, it’ll probably be in Bulgaria or Czech. A low rated, 2nd string team would be sent in, so as not to incriminate the top olympic potential players. I would do that if gold must be guaranteed.

apacible
07-12-2019, 07:51 AM
.... plus flooding the qualification with ‘sweepers’....:)

That's right ... All these old bonuses have some meaning only for calculating the current ITTF ratings for 2019, nothing more ....

True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6th, 7th, or 8th doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.

Vlad Celler
07-12-2019, 08:13 AM
True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6th, 7th, or 8th doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.

Thank you for such a complimentary assessment ... I can only hope that in my calculations there are no big mistakes ... hmm .....

Of course, need to wait for the results of both the T-2, and the Czech Republic and Bulgaria Open(I am curious about the composition of China on Open ...), WWC (and Asian Champ...)
ITTF, 10/2019

Vlad Celler
07-12-2019, 02:08 PM
True, but your calculations are much appreciated. What struck me from your computation is that Hirano is now within striking distance from Cheng I-Ching in terms of ranking points. Generally, being seeded 6th, 7th, or 8th doesn’t really matter and won’t affect the draw. However, if Hirano overtakes Cheng I-Ching next month and becomes WR No. 8, it would be a big boost to her chances to make the singles event in Tokyo. She can basically avoid meeting Top Chinese Players or Ishikawa and Ito till the QF while if she stayed at WR No. 9, she faces them in the R16.

Still, this is all speculation as Sun Yingsha’s recent performances may help her break the top 8 before Hirano can. Let’s wait for the Australian Open and T2 Diamond results to see how things shake out. Even then, Hirano surpassing Cheng I-Ching in ranking, before the World Cup would guarantee her a Top 4 seed in that event, so that would be a short-term win in itself.

In other news, the T-League rosters are being finalized. It looks like Niwa, Mizutani and Harimoto are on the same team. While this may be overpowered, I think JTTA is more concerned on how these 3 work together in preparation for Tokyo 2020. M. Yoshimura also has no team yet, and I won’t be surprised if Kinoshita Meister Tokyo signs him as well to really test out all possible doubles lineups for the Olympics. It's looking like T-League is becoming more of an Olympic preparation/training ground for the JNT rather than an actual competitive league. Haha.

Indeed, Yingsha after Australia Open may be at the 8th position in the ranking, if not even at the seventh ...... And this is without taking into account the T-2!
She can score 11630 - 12405 points .....

8th place definitely ...Plus, the T-2!

TeoTeoTeo
07-12-2019, 02:44 PM
Alright I take back every bad thing I said about Ishikawa. Who even takes three games in a row off of Chen Meng? That was amazing. GRATZ

Jacky Kwok
07-12-2019, 03:20 PM
Chen Meng might lose her Olympics single spot because of this lost to Ishikawa. Main point is not it was a Japanese player. Look at the 7th game, Chen Meng looked so nervous under pressure and lost her confidence. This is a crucial aspect for LGL’s consideration.

Now it depends on if DN will lose to Ito again tomorrow.

Brs
07-12-2019, 03:27 PM
This is a strong argument for having the national association choose the players with no predetermined criteria. When opponents can easily game your selection the only benefit is lost, which is supposedly fairness.

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 04:14 AM
With Australia Op ended for JNT, the 3 top contenders all have 8 tournaments and can start using their best 8 for calculations,
Hirano took a big hit, losing 565 pts to Ito & Ishikawa, and at 9190, is now only 185 pts ahead of Ishikawa.
Ito held off Ishikawa, both coming off the SF with 1465 pts, so the pt spread/status quo is maintained.
Usable points Ito 9970, Hirano 9190, Ishikawa 9005.

driversbeat
07-13-2019, 05:07 AM
Losing in Japan and Australia might come back to haunt Ito. The lead she has now isn't quite comfortable yet.

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 06:22 AM
edit...pls erase from memory, I had a senior moment with calculations.:o

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 06:50 AM
On a very personal note, we’re looking ahead to the Canadian Op Challenge+. We think Hayata is going to be there, PLUS whoever still got sub1100 score they want to purge by then(1st is 1100 pts). As of now, Ito has 2 900s plus a 675, Hirano has 3 900s plus a 855, Ishikawa has 3 900s plus a 720. If things get really tight...
Maybe eh? Just maybe worth a trip. The last TT road trip we took was to Philadelphia, hoping to see DN & LSW. They didn’t show up to our dismay, but also because of it we witnessed Hirano’s historical moment.

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 10:46 AM
Not much discussed yet. But the top 4 survivors in the ITTF Grand Final XD Tournament will automatically be qualified for the 2020 Olympics.
A team has to play at least 2 WT XD events to qualify for the Grand Final. Hayata & Harimoto has 2 events and is currently the top Japanese pair, ranked 6 with 163 pts. If they ended up in the top 4 in Grand Finals Tournament, that would mean Hayata is in the Olympics, and therefore part of the team. Interesting...

https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/01/2019-WT-Standings-XD-KOR.pdf

zeio
07-13-2019, 11:19 AM
This is a strong argument for having the national association choose the players with no predetermined criteria. When opponents can easily game your selection the only benefit is lost, which is supposedly fairness.

https://i.imgur.com/BOnGGtp.jpg

driversbeat
07-13-2019, 11:28 AM
Thats highly dependent on who JNT fields in world tours. Maybe to be fair they are giving each pair approximately 2 tournaments (idk just speculation). It's entirely possible for Hayata/Harimoto or any one of the Ito pairs to make top 4 if they are fielded consistently enough.

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 11:32 AM
Thats highly dependent on who JNT fields in world tours. Maybe to be fair they are giving each pair approximately 2 tournaments (idk just speculation). It's entirely possible for Hayata/Harimoto or any one of the Ito pairs to make top 4 if they are fielded consistently enough.
yikes...just check after Australia, because of the Finalist position, Ito-Mizutani now have total 200 pts, and became top Japanese pair.

zeio
07-13-2019, 12:24 PM
Quite true. To be on a level playing field (not even a lead) she needs to be 1300 pt ahead to counter for the potential QF finish of 1275 pts that Ishikawa & Hirano may well get in WC. To date she’s only leading by 965, which in the bigger picture, is actually tantamount to being behind.
With only 5 events left, running neck to neck is no longer enough for Ito, she needs to break out.

Well, since all 3 now have 8 events, Ishikawa will need to reach the World Cup final and Hirano will need to finish 3rd to take over Ito.

---
Ito
---
8505+1465=9970

------
Hirano
------
9010-720+900=9190

Finishing QF in World Cup
9190-855+1275=9610
4th
9190-855+1530=9865
3rd
9190-855+1660=9995
2nd
9190-855+1915=10250

--------
Ishikawa
--------
8215-675+1465=9005

Finishing QF in World Cup
9005-720+1275=9560
4th
9005-720+1530=9815
3rd
9005-720+1660=9945
2nd
9005-720+1915=10200

zeio
07-13-2019, 12:34 PM
The 3 T2 Diamond events will change their lives, as Ito puts it (https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/839536).

Tempest/Comet
07-13-2019, 12:37 PM
Thnx zeio ! I forgot to throw out the lowest when adding WC considerations (8 best). :o

zeio
07-13-2019, 12:49 PM
And now the race is heating up b/w Hirano and Ishikawa, due to China's "courtesy", Chen Meng's "sacrifice" and Ishikawa's "resolve".

Everyone on the CNT will be gunning for Ito from here on out.

Shine
07-13-2019, 02:07 PM
And now the race is heating up b/w Hirano and Ishikawa, due to China's "courtesy", Chen Meng's "sacrifice" and Ishikawa's "resolve".

Everyone on the CNT will be gunning for Ito from here on out.
I don't really believe this sacrifice that many are thinking CM made, She was so nervous and kept making mistakes and looking at Ma Lin, I don't know why it seems like every step these players think or every thing they do there's always something sinister behind that, or there's an ulterior motive of some sorts, Can't people just see them as normal beings, It's sort of like a manic obsession with reading what's not there, and seems insecure. If China really wanted to be nice, they'd have told shasha to lose today and ding to lose tomorrow, it won't cost anything, It's just a open. Being professional and wanting to defeat your opponent now seems like a wrong thing to do, Why didn't anyone say Qian TY tanked for Hirano, or Jiayi for Into, They're the all glorious CNT they win when they want if that's what people are insinuating so the losses are driven then?.

Jacky Kwok
07-13-2019, 02:28 PM
Japan as the host nation will be qualified for all Olympics quota. So they can send whoever to play XD, no need to qualify by world tour.

Vlad Celler
07-13-2019, 02:38 PM
WWC-2018....
Passed in September 2018 ...
Ishikawa, С.I.С., Hirano results:

Ishikawa - 1913
С.I.С. - 2040
Hirano - 1785

The results of the WWC this year will replace the old ones .....And on the new ITTF ranking system, the scores will be noticeably less for the same occupied place ....
For example, if last year Ishikawa received 4th place with 1913 points, then this year, if she also takes 4th place, she will receive only 1530...Almost all the participants of last year's cup will lose points ....
Or do you need to get to the finals .....

zeio
07-13-2019, 03:09 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Scare quotes (also called shudder quotes,[1][2] sneer quotes,[3] and quibble marks) are quotation marks that a writer places around a word or phrase to signal that they are using it in a non-standard, ironic, or otherwise special sense.[4] Scare quotes may indicate that the author is using someone else's term, similar to preceding a phrase with the expression "so-called";[5] they may imply skepticism or disagreement, belief that the words are misused, or that the writer intends a meaning opposite to the words enclosed in quotes.[6]

E.g. Subbed by Ishikawa's "fanboi" zeio

apacible
07-13-2019, 04:18 PM
Update to Standings after Australian Open
19479

Recap of the Australian Open:
1. Women's singles- This tournament was insane and it had huge effects on the Race to Tokyo. Ishikawa's first win against a core CNT player couldn't have come at a better time. That win put her back in the race, and she's now neck and neck with Hirano. While Ito didn't get the win over Ding Ning to push her lead further, things could have been much worse for her. At least she got 2 much needed wins against Hirano and Li Jiayi to match Ishikawa's surprise SF finish. Ito accomplished 2 things in her crucial R16 win against Hirano. First, she stopped Hirano from getting more 2020 ranking points, while gaining points for herself. Second, she delays Hirano from overtaking Cheng-I Ching in current WR, thus making Hirano's draw a bit tougher for at least for 1 to 2 more months.
2. Mixed doubles- With the Ito/Mizutani pair's loss to HK, Japan has yet to win a XD title on the World Tour. It'll be interesting to see if Japan chooses to experiment some more with different lineups. Honestly, I do not think Japan should keep changing the mixed doubles pairings. Maybe it would be more helpful for Japan to give the pairings more tournaments to synergise and get used to playing with each other rather than changing the doubles pairings yet again. The Wong/Doo pairing had early exits during last year's first few World Tour events before finally winning the WT Grand Finals after getting accustomed with each other. Lin/Cheng also took some tournaments to gel.

By now, JTTA should have an idea on which pairs have more potential than others. We can probably rule out Harimoto/Ishikawa (2 early exits) and Niwa/Ito (lost to Lin/Cheng twice). That leaves 3 possible contenders:

Harimoto/Hayata (only Japanese pair to beat a Chinese pair since the XD event was introduced last year)
Ito/Mizutani (Beat Lin/Cheng twice, which Niwa/Ito couldn't accomplish, and were competitive in all matches they've played so far.)
Yoshimura/Ishikawa (3x WTTC Medalist, though strangely, their results in the XD event in the World Tour dating back to last year have been disappointing as compared to what they usually accomplish in the WTTC.)


It's also important for JTTA to avoid too much changing of pairings since Japan will also want to get a good seeding for the Olympic games. To get a medal, Japan would want to avoid China at least till the SF and preferably till the Final. Japan will need to commit to specific pairings and play these pairings for multiple tournaments to get enough ranking points to be seeded highly.

One thing to note is that the WTGF will only allow 1 XD pairing per country. The Japanese pairing that qualifies for the WTGF this year, will be able to get more ranking points then other Japanese pairings. While technically, if the Japanese pair in the WTGF finishes top 4, it qualifies for the olympics, Japan does not need to abide by this and can send any pairing it wants since it is the host nation and the olympic committee has the final say on who makes the olympics. Still, if Japan cares about seeding, it would most likely send the pairing that makes the WTGF as this will likely be the highest seeded pairing for the olympics and will better Japan's draw for a medal.

apacible
07-13-2019, 04:20 PM
Want to hear an interesting yet strange statistic? The new uniforms for the Japan Women’s Team debuted during this year’s World Championships. There are 3 colors: red, blue and yellow-green. What’s really strange is that all of Ito’s singles losses to CNT members came when Ito wore the yellow-green uniform.

Ito’s Wins and Losses this year against CNT players since the debut of the new uniforms in the WTTC:

Blue: 3 Wins (Wang Yidi, Ding Ning, Li Jiayi) 0 Losses
Red: 1 Win (Sun Mingyang) 0 Losses
Yellow-Green: 0 Wins, 6 Losses: (Sun Yingsha, Wang Manyu twice, Wang Yidi, Gu Yuting, Ding Ning)

I’m not claiming Ito’s losses are due to her uniform choice, but it’s certainly one of those strange and unlikely coincidences like Ishikawa meeting Kihara in the R32 and losing to Sun Yingsha 3 Opens in a row. :D

Vlad Celler
07-13-2019, 04:42 PM
I applaud just amazingly written reviews of a respected forumchanin apacible ! (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?68630-apacible)

zeio
07-13-2019, 05:31 PM
Yellow-green happens to be the color to which the eye is most sensitive. Perhaps that will boost the peripheral vision of the opponent to track them down?

Jacky Kwok
07-13-2019, 06:29 PM
Thanks for this statistic. While I don’t have the numbers, I do notice that Ito lost a lot of matches to CNT when wearing this new yellow uniform.


Want to hear an interesting yet strange statistic? The new uniforms for the Japan Women’s Team debuted during this year’s World Championships. There are 3 colors: red, blue and yellow-green. What’s really strange is that all of Ito’s singles losses to CNT members came when Ito wore the yellow-green uniform.

Ito’s Wins and Losses this year against CNT players since the debut of the new uniforms in the WTTC:

Blue: 3 Wins (Wang Yidi, Ding Ning, Li Jiayi) 0 Losses
Red: 1 Win (Sun Mingyang) 0 Losses
Yellow-Green: 0 Wins, 6 Losses: (Sun Yingsha, Wang Manyu twice, Wang Yidi, Gu Yuting, Ding Ning)

I’m not claiming Ito’s losses are due to her uniform choice, but it’s certainly one of those strange and unlikely coincidences like Ishikawa meeting Kihara in the R32 and losing to Sun Yingsha 3 Opens in a row. :D

Vlad Celler
07-13-2019, 06:34 PM
By the way, the composition of the Chinese national team in Bulgaria is published ... Not sure that any of the Japanese women will be in the semi-finals .....
(it seems that China will not open its jaws before the start of the Olympics .... It literally stifles Japan .....):mad:

Tempest/Comet
07-14-2019, 04:33 AM
;) 23 JNT, 12 CNT, 11 Korean women in a european Open ;) don’t want to go to asia? Asia will come to you ;) we do deliveries, FREE shipping! ;) and GUARANTEED quality too! ;)
ok...looks like only HZJ & CXT are seeded (does it actually matter?) :D:cool:

NextLevel
07-14-2019, 05:53 AM
I don't really believe this sacrifice that many are thinking CM made, She was so nervous and kept making mistakes and looking at Ma Lin, I don't know why it seems like every step these players think or every thing they do there's always something sinister behind that, or there's an ulterior motive of some sorts, Can't people just see them as normal beings, It's sort of like a manic obsession with reading what's not there, and seems insecure. If China really wanted to be nice, they'd have told shasha to lose today and ding to lose tomorrow, it won't cost anything, It's just a open. Being professional and wanting to defeat your opponent now seems like a wrong thing to do, Why didn't anyone say Qian TY tanked for Hirano, or Jiayi for Into, They're the all glorious CNT they win when they want if that's what people are insinuating so the losses are driven then?.

"Sacrifice" was in quotes you know. FZD is also "sacrificing " himself a lot lately.

Vlad Celler
07-14-2019, 06:23 AM
;) 23 JNT, 12 CNT, 11 Korean women in a european Open ;) don’t want to go to asia? Asia will come to you ;) we do deliveries, FREE shipping! ;) and GUARANTEED quality too! ;)
ok...looks like only HZJ & CXT are seeded (does it actually matter?) :D:cool:

Pay attention to the total limit in Bulgaria .... 310 ... Maybe someone will be on the waiting list?
(It will be interesting to see the Chinese team in the Czech Republic ... Japan - the composition has already been published on the JTTA portal, on the ITTF portal - not yet available ....)

Tempest/Comet
07-14-2019, 06:36 AM
Pay attention to the total limit in Bulgaria .... 310 ... Maybe someone will be on the waiting list?
(It will be interesting to see the Chinese team in the Czech Republic ... Japan - the composition has already been published on the JTTA portal, on the ITTF portal - not yet available ....)
138 men+176 women=314 i think everyone will be in :cool:

Tempest/Comet
07-16-2019, 10:00 AM
trying to put some cuts I made on youtube, let me try it here among friends first...I have NO idea what I'm doing. :p:confused:

https://youtu.be/zOChAMbuuCc

hmmm...no thumbnail :confused:

yoass
07-16-2019, 10:14 AM
I have NO idea what I'm doing.

But still, you are showing quality Miu Hirano there.

Shine
07-16-2019, 11:28 AM
By the way, the composition of the Chinese national team in Bulgaria is published ... Not sure that any of the Japanese women will be in the semi-finals .....
(it seems that China will not open its jaws before the start of the Olympics .... It literally stifles Japan .....):mad:
HZJ and CXT are the seeded players there, if JNT can't beat these players that's not good news, If CNT really wanted to block them, they'll send the top 6 there, So they're basically saying Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano you can win this open to stamp your participation in Tokyo, talk about helping Japan lol

Janard
07-16-2019, 01:26 PM
Probably taking time to recuperate since there is the Chinese national games (dubbed "hell level") in July after T2 Diamond. Non-stop for the top 6 players of the men's and women's teams.

NextLevel
07-16-2019, 01:54 PM
Probably taking time to recuperate since there is the Chinese national games (dubbed "hell level") in July after T2 Diamond. Non-stop for the top 6 players of the men's and women's teams.

I think National.Champs not National Games as National Games should be every 4 years and a much bigger deal unless something has changed. National champs, I suspect some of the top players will sit it out.

Janard
07-16-2019, 02:12 PM
I think National.Champs not National Games as National Games should be every 4 years and a much bigger deal unless something has changed. National champs, I suspect some of the top players will sit it out.

Hi, yes you're right. It's the All China Table Tennis Championships I was referring to. Actually, the top 8 seeds for the Singles and XD events have been announced yesterday and it seems all the top players are taking part. They are holding it in the same sequence as the Olympics, like a mini-rehearsal.

Men's Singles (seeding order)
1) Xu Xin; 2) Lin Gaoyuan; 3) Fan Zhendong; 4) Ma Long; 5) Liang Jingkun; 6) Fang Bo; 7) Zhou Yu; 8) Zhou Qihao

Women's Singles (seeding order)
1) Chen Meng; 2) Liu Shiwen; 3) Ding Ning; 4) Zhu Yuling; 5) Wang Manyu; 6) Sun Yingsha; 7) He Zhuojia; 8) Chen Xingtong

Mixed Doubles (seeding order)
1) Xu Xin/Liu Shiwen; 2) Fan Zhendong/Ding Ning; 3) Wang Chuqin; Sun Yingsha; 4) Lin Gaoyuan; Wang Manyu; 5) Liang Jingkun/Zhu Yuling; 6) Yu Ziyang/Chen Meng; 7) Zhou Yu/Mu Zi; 8) Zhou Qihao/Chen Xingtong

P.S. Apologies for hijacking this thread which is supposed to be on the Japanese Women. I can remove this post if need be.

Vlad Celler
07-16-2019, 02:26 PM
So far in the Czech Open in XD - Ishikawa-Harimoto and Ito-Mizutani ....

Jacky Kwok
07-17-2019, 05:01 AM
T2’s draw is released.

Ito: 5th seed
Hirano: 9th seed
Ishikawa: 14th seed

Hirano is lucky to draw the best first opponent among the top 8th seeds.

With the recent form, can Ishikawa upset ZYL?

And we may finally see Ito vs CM. With the special playing rules of T2, it may have some benefits towards Ito.

But if everything is just normal, i.e. Ishikawa lost in first round, Hirano and Ito lost in second round. Hirano and Ito will only get 100 more points than Ishikawa. Not very significant I assume?

https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/66675108_2962340620475328_2411730209511309312_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQn0uJXDTrX6yiLxnrv9aLjN1LyywnER0sm7aRZZzxdist4Vmfeyy-Jq5nWour9Tqgc&_nc_ht=scontent-hkg3-1.xx&oh=67594abf7d8a602f6e8ba0c64f00995b&oe=5DBA2668

zeio
07-17-2019, 07:26 AM
I won't be surprised to see ZYL serve as the "sacrificial" lamb one more time. Let's make Ishikawa great again!


trying to put some cuts I made on youtube, let me try it here among friends first...I have NO idea what I'm doing. :p:confused:

https://youtu.be/zOChAMbuuCc

hmmm...no thumbnail :confused:

https://i.imgur.com/OfcgF72.jpg

Tempest/Comet
07-17-2019, 10:11 AM
“...But if everything is just normal, i.e. Ishikawa lost in first round, Hirano and Ito lost in second round. Hirano and Ito will only get 100 more points than Ishikawa. Not very significant I assume?”

it would only give Hirano’s total points the equivalent of a one round lead of 1 WT event. Her earlier lead has all but evaporated in one tournament.

Tempest/Comet
07-17-2019, 10:19 AM
“I won't be surprised to see ZYL serve as the "sacrificial" lamb one more time. Let's make Ishikawa great again!”
rather meaningless to do it in T2, for a mere 100 pts gain I think.
Bulgaria, use the disposabls.

yoass
07-17-2019, 10:50 AM
I won't be surprised to see ZYL serve as the "sacrificial" lamb one more time.

To me that's stretching this take-one-for-the-team conspiracy theory a bit far.

zeio
07-17-2019, 10:53 AM
It makes total sense as the CNT wants Ito out of the top 2 spots. If Ishikawa and Hirano make the singles, then Hayata will be dropped in favor of Ito. If Ishikawa and Ito make the singles, Hayata will also be dropped in favor of Hirano, as you can't have 2 left-handers play doubles. Either way, their team doubles will be weakened by a wide margin. And with that, Mizutani/Ito will play the XD, which is in my opinion not as good as Harimoto/Hayata.

zeio
07-17-2019, 10:54 AM
To me that's stretching this take-one-for-the-team conspiracy theory a bit far.

It takes getting used to.

yoass
07-17-2019, 10:57 AM
It makes total sense as the CNT wants Ito out of the top 2 spots.

Which only makes sense if you believe there's a totally immersive plot, embraced by all, to prefer winning by shenanigans to winning by actually winning.

I choose not to believe this. Call me naïve, but my life is way more fun that way.

zeio
07-17-2019, 11:15 AM
Not naive, but boring. I've been wondering why the table tennis scene is so dull in Europe...

yoass
07-17-2019, 02:16 PM
I think I'll take that as a compliment. Boring is a good thing. We need more boring. Coz' there's not enough love to go round.

Shine
07-17-2019, 03:21 PM
To me that's stretching this take-one-for-the-team conspiracy theory a bit far. I agree with Mr yoass, it's gotten a bit too far, I'm not intending to offend anyone but I think our Chinese speaking contingent who are very invaluable to this forum due to the video translations, articles, streams and making us aware of happenings in the Asian table tennis scene are inadvertently or not, a big factor in the conviction of many foreign fans that the CNT are this compromising, dirty, meddling, cheating hegemon on this sport, I don't know man! but I know many do not support the CPC or are disillusioned with the country, but even if it's necessary to speak the truth, I'd expect some love for the motherland restraint and not wanting to let one's countrymen downwhich is normal, And what's the truth in this matter?: Fueling a narrative to keep everyone on their seats till January, cos the truth has to come with proofs and not opinions, and not speculations either, which is basically the basis of the theories here, CNT do not want Ito to play Olympics: One doesn't not great foresight to know you don't want your strongest adversaries if possible to play in the Olympics, the same way anyone can say JNT or any other association will prefer Ma Long not playing in the Olympics which is true and doesn't need much proving as him not being the makes it easier for others. But saying players are tanking, "sacrifices" without no considerable proof and just speculating is just unfounded. The race between the girls is exciting enough as it winds down, there's no need for additives

karupinkun
07-18-2019, 06:43 AM
miyu is the CNT undercover agent. Does nothing other then snipe the biggest possible threats in Ito and Hayata.

zeio
07-18-2019, 06:55 AM
miyu is the CNT undercover agent. Does nothing other then snipe the biggest possible threats in Ito and Hayata.

https://i.imgur.com/1RYjuWW.jpg

Getting a bit too far, or so they say. LOL

Tony's Table Tennis
07-18-2019, 08:05 AM
miyu is the CNT undercover agent. Does nothing other then snipe the biggest possible threats in Ito and Hayata.

Well, if you want to talk undercover agents. At the moment there is more Chinese people than Japanese people in the entire JNT setup (coaches, training partners, players etc)

At one tournament, I was seated in the VIP section.
I had a couple of Japanese team coaches behind me, all talking to each other in Mandarin

pongfugrasshopper
07-18-2019, 12:08 PM
I know I'll probably get some backlash for this, but I think the Japanese Olympic Selection Committee should just revise the process to say T2 events do not count towards selection. It's not technically a 2019 ITTF World Tour Event (https://www.ittf.com/ittf-world-tour/2019-ittf-world-tour/events/). It's got a ridiculous non-ITTF 5 points playoff after 24 minutes scoring system. It's ITTF's laboratory for what they might wanna try in their own events, which is fine, but not suitable for Olympic selection. If Mima Ito doesn't make Olympic Singles because of this, I'm going to be pissed :mad: !!!

Shine
07-18-2019, 12:50 PM
I know I'll probably get some backlash for this, but I think the Japanese Olympic Selection Committee should just revise the process to say T2 events do not count towards selection. It's not technically a 2019 ITTF World Tour Event (https://www.ittf.com/ittf-world-tour/2019-ittf-world-tour/events/). It's got a ridiculous non-ITTF 5 points playoff after 24 minutes scoring system. It's ITTF's laboratory for what they might wanna try in their own events, which is fine, but not suitable for Olympic selection. If Mima Ito doesn't make Olympic Singles because of this, I'm going to be pissed :mad: !!!
I'll rather just blame the Chinese, We all need something or someone to blame for things turning out how we don't want them to in this 21st century

yoass
07-18-2019, 12:54 PM
We all need something or someone to blame for things turning out how we don't want them to in this 21st century

I blame the current and past generations for global warming, resource exhaustion, plastic soup, the 6th mass extinction event, the Kardashians, and the upcoming nuclear armageddon. Am I wrong? :-)

Tony's Table Tennis
07-18-2019, 01:04 PM
I know I'll probably get some backlash for this, but I think the Japanese Olympic Selection Committee should just revise the process to say T2 events do not count towards selection. It's not technically a 2019 ITTF World Tour Event (https://www.ittf.com/ittf-world-tour/2019-ittf-world-tour/events/). It's got a ridiculous non-ITTF 5 points playoff after 24 minutes scoring system. It's ITTF's laboratory for what they might wanna try in their own events, which is fine, but not suitable for Olympic selection. If Mima Ito doesn't make Olympic Singles because of this, I'm going to be pissed :mad: !!!

nah, since they don't even use ITTF approved balls or ITTF approved tables or ITTF rules (handbook)
I doubt this will have any dent in any team selection.

I wonder how much T2 paid ITTF to make it "ranking pointable"
don't get me wrong, I like T2, but someone should be fired to allow a private invitational tournament to have point allocations
It is now fact and a precedent to future rich folks who want to have a tournament and bend the rules and still get ranking points because of $$$$$

apacible
07-18-2019, 02:52 PM
So far in the Czech Open in XD - Ishikawa-Harimoto and Ito-Mizutani ....

For Bulgaria and Czech, Hirano and Shibata will be playing Women's Doubles together again. Not really sure what JTTA is trying to accomplish by using this pairing for 4 events in a row. Certainly, it would be wiser to experiment with players who have better chances at making the Olympic team. I'm still surprised they are not testing out Hirano/Ito or Hirano/Hayata or trying to make Ishikawa/Hirano work.

There isn't much time left before the Jan. 2020 deadline to select the Olympic Teams and figure out other doubles combinations that work. Right now, the Ito/Hayata pairing is the only Olympic-likely pairing that is proven to work. However, the problem is that at this point, there's no guarantee that Hayata will make a Olympics and if she doesn't, the Japanese Women's team will face the same problem the Men's team is facing of having no suitable doubles pairing in the Olympic team.

Given that Ishikawa and Ito are busy playing mixed doubles in these tournaments, I doubt JTTA would want to give them a 3rd event in Women's doubles. That leaves Hayata and Hirano free to play Women's Doubles, but JTTA is still insisting on the Hirano/Shibata pairing. It's a puzzling selection and not a good sign for Hayata.

Vlad Celler
07-18-2019, 03:07 PM
.....and not a good sign for Hayata. ....

Agreed..:(

NextLevel
07-18-2019, 03:32 PM
For Bulgaria and Czech, Hirano and Shibata will be playing Women's Doubles together again. Not really sure what JTTA is trying to accomplish by using this pairing for 4 events in a row. Certainly, it would be wiser to experiment with players who have better chances at making the Olympic team. I'm still surprised they are not testing out Hirano/Ito or Hirano/Hayata or trying to make Ishikawa/Hirano work.

There isn't much time left before the Jan. 2020 deadline to select the Olympic Teams and figure out other doubles combinations that work. Right now, the Ito/Hayata pairing is the only Olympic-likely pairing that is proven to work. However, the problem is that at this point, there's no guarantee that Hayata will make a Olympics and if she doesn't, the Japanese Women's team will face the same problem the Men's team is facing of having no suitable doubles pairing in the Olympic team.

Given that Ishikawa and Ito are busy playing mixed doubles in these tournaments, I doubt JTTA would want to give them a 3rd event in Women's doubles. That leaves Hayata and Hirano free to play Women's Doubles, but JTTA is still insisting on the Hirano/Shibata pairing. It's a puzzling selection and not a good sign for Hayata.

I don't think it has any special meaning and the really bad sign for Hayata is Ishikawa's play in singles. My two cents...

Six months is still a while.

driversbeat
07-18-2019, 05:02 PM
To be honest, Japan doesn't lose much by sending Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa. They are all playing well at the moment even if their results aren't as groundbreaking as one might expect. Their chances against China might marginally improve if Hayata goes, but that isn't saying much unless Ito-Hayata can beat Chinese pairs on a consistent basis, which they aren't.

Jacky Kwok
07-19-2019, 01:54 AM
I am a fan of the Japanese women’s team (especially for Ito and Hayata). I cheer for them whenever they have matches vs other countries’s players (maybe except Hong Kong because I am from Hong Kong).

However this time, I can hope both Ishikawa and Hirano will lose in the 1st round of T2 Malaysia too. It will be heart breaking if Ito cannot play Olympics single.

zeio
07-19-2019, 03:05 AM
If you want to see Ito in singles and Hayata in team/mixed doubles, then Hirano will have to advance.

Janard
07-19-2019, 03:39 AM
Well, things should be a little clearer when we reach the Team World Cup (6-10 November 2019) event. The five players fielded from each association will likely be the Olympics hopefuls and the three selected for the Semis and Finals the frontrunners at that time.

driversbeat
07-19-2019, 01:22 PM
Well they all got knocked out in the first round. Should have stayed at home

Takkyu_wa_inochi
07-19-2019, 01:26 PM
KATO is still left

driversbeat
07-19-2019, 01:58 PM
I mean the top 3 Japanese, the ones who have a realistic chance of making Singles. With this result T2 was essentially a wasted trip for all of them.

Vlad Celler
07-19-2019, 02:08 PM
Well they all got knocked out in the first round. Should have stayed at home

That's right ... a little rest, it would be more useful ....

Vlad Celler
07-19-2019, 02:26 PM
So....
Preliminary calculation of ITTF rating (I apologize for possible inaccuracies ...)
8/2019
Ishikawa - 13133
September ranking - deduction of old bonuses-(-1800,-1260), reserve so far (without taking into account results of Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (+1170,+900)
Loss of points (without taking into account the results in Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (=-990)

ITO - 12710
September ranking - deduction of old bonuses-(-1260), reserve so far (without taking into account results of Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (+1125)
Loss of points (without taking into account the results in Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (=-135)

CHENG I-Ching - 12190
September ranking - deduction of old bonuses-(-945), reserve so far (without taking into account results of Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (+880)
Loss of points (without taking into account the results in Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (=-65)


HIRANO - 12050
September ranking - deduction of old bonuses-(-1260), reserve so far (without taking into account results of Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (+900)
Loss of points (without taking into account the results in Bulgaria and the Czech Republic) - (=-360)

zeio
07-19-2019, 02:26 PM
$5000 alone is well worth the trip.

Vlad Celler
07-19-2019, 02:31 PM
$5000 alone is well worth the trip.

Does it make sense for Japan's TOP 3 to attend the next T2?

zeio
07-19-2019, 02:36 PM
Oh, of course. They gotta attend. 400 extra pts in the worst case scenario. ML and LSW agree as well.

Shine
07-19-2019, 02:46 PM
How much do the winner get?

pongfugrasshopper
07-19-2019, 03:00 PM
How much do the winner get?
Competition Results PRIZE PURSE (USD) Per Event
1st Place (winner) $100,000
2nd Place $50,000
3rd Place $20,000
4th Place $12,000
Quarter Finals $7,000
Round of 16 $5,000

driversbeat
07-19-2019, 04:00 PM
That changes everything

Shine
07-19-2019, 04:19 PM
I still think though that Ittf has to review how the T2 diamond events hold sway over the World Rankings, I don't know much about the rules but I suppose the 3 T2 events would be in addition to the best 8 World Tour Events, So if XX who's in form for example wins the 3 events, He'll have 3000 points, that's a lotta points, I know inability to participate in this edition will spur the players down the ranking chart to up their game, but still if the 3 events will be added, there'll be a big disparity in points between the top 16 and the rest. Probably if only 2 is added( this doesn't make much sense), or an average of the points attained in how many events that were attended by an athlete, so for example if XX wins the 3 diamond events, he'll have just 1000 (3000/3) added, I believe this will keep things tighter.

apacible
07-19-2019, 05:48 PM
If you want to see Ito in singles and Hayata in team/mixed doubles, then Hirano will have to advance.


I don't think it has any special meaning and the really bad sign for Hayata is Ishikawa's play in singles. My two cents...

Six months is still a while.

This situation feels really similar to the 2012 North American Olympic Trials. At that time, Erica Wu, a teenage table tennis player needed her teammates and fellow teenagers Ariel Hsing and Lily Zhang to both qualify for singles so that Erica can make the Olympic Team event.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHhc33XbzQ

In this video, from 0 secs to 40 secs, you can see Erica talking about how anxious she was while watching Ariel's and Lily's matches, how her chances of making the olympics would be small if either or both of them didn't qualify for singles, and how grateful she was that they actually did qualify, which secured Erica's place in the team event. Hayata seems to be in the same spot that Erica was in 2012 and will want both Ito and Hirano to qualify for singles to better her chances of being selected for the team event.

Of course, she still has to do her part and perform the best she can in the remaining events to get selected and it'll be interesting to see how she fares in Bulgaria and Czech which will be her first Regular World Tour tournament this year where the Top Chinese Players won't be participating (since she was waitlisted in HK). If she can get out of qualifications, she has a good chance to win against some seeded players. However, the bitter truth is that part of her Olympic destiny is now out of her control and depends on the how Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa perform the rest of the year.

pongfugrasshopper
07-20-2019, 09:40 AM
I still think though that Ittf has to review how the T2 diamond events hold sway over the World Rankings, I don't know much about the rules but I suppose the 3 T2 events would be in addition to the best 8 World Tour Events, So if XX who's in form for example wins the 3 events, He'll have 3000 points, that's a lotta points, I know inability to participate in this edition will spur the players down the ranking chart to up their game, but still if the 3 events will be added, there'll be a big disparity in points between the top 16 and the rest. Probably if only 2 is added( this doesn't make much sense), or an average of the points attained in how many events that were attended by an athlete, so for example if XX wins the 3 diamond events, he'll have just 1000 (3000/3) added, I believe this will keep things tighter.
I've railed against these bonus points (mostly on MyTT) since I first found out about it. I have a lot of respect for what T2 is trying to do and I wish them good luck in trying to popularize the sport. Having said that, I'm against this decision to give ranking points out at these T2 non-ITTF tournaments and especially *in addition to* a player's top 8 results. Especially since this is an Olympic trial year, and as we can see, nations like Japan are using World Ranking as a criteria for determining Olympic selection (in Japan's case *the* criteria for singles). Olympics aside, this creates an artificial barrier to entry to the top 15. A player could have better results than a top 15 player, but because of the T2 points would lose out in getting into the top 15 which matters for seeding at ITTF tournaments.

Vlad Celler
07-20-2019, 10:35 AM
Agreed !

driversbeat
07-20-2019, 02:12 PM
I thought Kato would close the gap between herself and the top Japanese with her T2 performance and create more drama. But the gap is simply too huge.

Vlad Celler
07-20-2019, 02:19 PM
I thought Kato would close the gap between herself and the top Japanese with her T2 performance and create more drama. But the gap is simply too huge.

She will receive approximately 24 place in the rating for August ....And it is unlikely to enter the TOP-16 by January 2020 ...

apacible
07-22-2019, 03:36 AM
Race to Tokyo Standings after T2 Malaysia
19521

T2 Recap:
No one gained any ground among the 3 frontrunners in the Race to Tokyo since they all had early exits. The same happened in the men’s side. In case you’re curious, Mizutani currently has around a 200-point lead over Niwa in the Jan. 2020 WR. However, Niwa still has the advantage of playing the World Cup later this year. The race for the 2nd spot in the men’s team is actually quite close, and I’m considering making a spreadsheet for that race too as the selection of the men’s team will affect the women’s team selection due to the Mixed Doubles event.

The biggest surprise on the side of Japan was Miyu Kato’s performance. She was impressive in beating both Ito and Chen Meng. Unfortunately for her, her good performance in the first T2 event is offset by the fact that she isn’t qualified for the 2nd T2 event, so she’s still way behind in the singles race.

Looking ahead:
Sun Yingsha’s recent performances will push her into the Top 8 in WR for August. This is actually good news for Ishikawa and Ito since now they will all be within the 5-8 seed group. This ensures that either Ishikawa or Ito will NOT face Sun Yingsha until at least the semifinals in tournaments, so it’s one less threat for them to worry about in the early rounds. On the other hand, this hurts Hirano as her 12.5% chance of drawing Cheng I-Ching in the R16 is substituted for Sun Yingsha, a much tougher opponent. The good news for Hirano is the top Chinese players aren’t playing in Bulgaria or Czech, so Hirano won’t be guaranteed to face tough opponents in the R16 for these tournaments if she draws well. She still has time to improve her World Ranking before the next tournament where the Top Chinese players do show up.

In the Bulgaria and Czech Open, luck of the draw becomes even more crucial in determining the Race to Tokyo as compared to other opens since the top Chinese Players aren’t playing. When the top Chinese players play, luck of the draw isn’t as crucial since there will always be a quarter of the draw defended by a Chinese player. When the Chinese top players don’t play, the draw can become very imbalanced because of the low WR of Chinese qualifiers. This could lead to a situation where one half of the draw is full of Chinese players and the other half has none. This was exactly what happened in last year’s Czech Open where no Chinese players were drawn to Ishikawa’s half of the draw while all the Chinese players got drawn to Ito’s half. Hopefully, the draws this time will not be too imbalanced, so the Japanese players’ Olympic readiness can be measured more accurately and fairly.

Vlad Celler
07-22-2019, 04:13 AM
apacible (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?68630-apacible)
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/images/Styles/Blackend/statusicon/user-offline.png
....Sun Yingsha’s recent performances will push her into the Top 8 in WR for August....


WS rating ITTF 8/2019
(I apologize for any inaccuracies ..)

nr.6 - ISHIKAWA Kasumi 13133 (-1800,1260/1170,900) +bolg , cze
SUN Yingsha 12915
ITO Mima 12710 (-1260/1125) +bolg , cze
CHENG I-Ching 12190 (-945/880)
HIRANO Miu 12050 (-1260/900) +bolg , cze

Also shows deductions old bonuses for 8/2018, which will be taken into account in the rating for September 2019
(reserve points for replacement — so far without taking into account the results in Bulgaria and the Czech Republic ...)

Note:
SUN Yingsha - no games in August, the result will remain the same ...
CHENG I-Ching - no games in August...But there is a deduction with a replacement .. (- 65 points=12125) ...

Theoretically, Ito has good chances to beat Ishikawa in September's rating ITTF.....

apacible
08-05-2019, 03:02 PM
Head's up! JTTA has just released the player lineup for this year's Asian Table Tennis Championships on the JTTA website. It remains to be seen if additional players will be added, but as of now, this is the lineup:

Men's Team: T. Harimoto, M. Yoshimura, K. Yoshimura, Yukiya Uda, Jin Ueda, and Shunsuke Togami (Notable Absences: Niwa and Mizutani)
Women's Team: Kasumi Ishikawa, Miu Hirano, Hitomi Sato, Saki Shibata and Miyu Kato (Notable Absences: Mima Ito and Hina Hayata)

How will Ito's absence affect the Race to Tokyo? Given that Ishikawa and Hirano are the only serious threats to her singles spot, Ito's absence won't affect the race too much. The continental championships only give the same amount of ranking points as a World Tour Regular event. Also, remember that among the Top 8 results, a player may only use a Maximum of 1 continental event result. Ishikawa and Hirano already have a continental event result this year (Asian Cup), so if ever either Ishikawa or Hirano does better in the Asian Championships, it would be their Asian Cup result that would have to be replaced instead of their lowest result of their Top 8.

Ishikawa needs to at least make the singles final in the ATTC to gain any points in the race while Hirano needs at least a semi-final finish. Given that matches are best 3 of 5 games, it's certainly possible. However, I still believe that it is more difficult to go farther in the Asian Championships as opposed to the Asian Cup since China can field 5 singles players this time instead of a maximum of 2 like in the Asian Cup.

As of now, it is still unclear why Ito is not participating in the ATTC. My guess would be that she is conserving energy for the second T2 event which will occur the week after the ATTC. Given that the ATTC has all 7 events (all singles, doubles and team events), it would definitely be exhausting to participate in both tournaments back-to-back. The T2 event will have more impact on World Ranking than the ATTC, so it makes sense for Ito to prioritize T2.

I don't think JTTA has released information on the doubles pairings for this event yet. Just keep a look out on who gets paired with whom in the doubles events for possible clues on who the JTTA is eyeing for next year's Olympics.

Vlad Celler
08-05-2019, 04:34 PM
By the way, according to the results of Bulgaria Open and Czech Open, Ito has very good chances to rise above Ishikawa in the next ITTF rating...Due to the fact that Ishikawa has noticeably large deductions of old bonuses for August 2018 ...

Ishikawa - (-1800,1260/reserve 1200,1170)
Ito - (-1260/reserve 1125)

driversbeat
08-06-2019, 02:21 PM
Doesn't Ito have no bonus continental events as of now? The Asian championships could knock out her Japan Open result at the very least

Vlad Celler
08-06-2019, 03:06 PM
Ito has no bonuses for continental events ....
The current minimum 8th result is 1260, 8/2018 ....In the next ITTF rating list for September 2019, it will be replaced by 1125 from the reserve ...
(although if Ito reached the final in Bulgaria or the Czech Republic, 1440/1800, she would not lose points ....)

apacible
08-06-2019, 04:09 PM
Doesn't Ito have no bonus continental events as of now? The Asian championships could knock out her Japan Open result at the very least

Ito doesn't necessarily need to play the Asian Championships to replace her poor Japan Open result. That result is already sure to be replaced when she plays the World Tour Grand Finals later this year where she'll get at least 1020 points. To make participating in the Asian Championships worth Ito's time, she would have to at least finish in the SF to replace her next lowest result of 900.

I'm sure the JTTA didn't snub Ito from the Asian Championships team, especially when Ishikawa and Hirano were also sent to play. It's most probably just Ito's strategic decision to skip the Asian Champs to be better rested for the other tournaments, especially T2, which happens the week after. She probably believes the extra rest would be more beneficial than playing one extra tournament to gain ranking points. It's a gamble on her part, and only time will tell if it will work out.

Aside from the World Tour Grand Finals, Ito will still have 5 more World Tour events and one World Team Cup to gain points. As a worst-case scenario, she can even join the December Canada Open Challenge Plus event in a last ditch effort to gain points if ever she falls behind.

Vlad Celler
08-06-2019, 04:54 PM
In terms of rating points, Ito has a problem month in November ...When calculating the rating for December 2019, she will have deductions (-1800, -1350) points for November 2018 ...For comparison, Ishikawa will have a deduction of only 1260 for this period ....

However, there are still several major tournaments ahead ..... I hope Ito in the next rating will rise above Ishikawa and will be able to hold this position until the end of the year ....

Tempest/Comet
08-08-2019, 08:08 AM
Ito & Hayata are going to the Paraguay Challenge+ 9/10-9/14.:)

Zaccai
08-08-2019, 08:22 AM
I am on the outside of Women’s TT but this is good to see such a flourishing following for it.

Vlad Celler
08-08-2019, 11:09 AM
Ito & Hayata are going to the Paraguay Challenge+ 9/10-9/14.:)

Curious ... Deadline August 11th .... Will China answer?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-08-2019, 01:46 PM
they just want to spend some nice holidays

Vlad Celler
08-08-2019, 02:35 PM
God help them!

(In general, the application was filed not without humor .... Are you for the Asian Championship? Well, we will play in Paraguay ...)

Tempest/Comet
08-08-2019, 04:06 PM
It’s actually not a bad idea. Challenge+ win is 1100 pts, 3rd in Asian Championship is 1170, 4th is 1080, but there are 5 top Chinese women there.

Vlad Celler
08-08-2019, 04:13 PM
Oh yes....

Tempest/Comet
08-11-2019, 12:13 AM
An in-depth interview of Hayata (Aug 9 ‘19)
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/otherballgame/other/2019/08/09/t13/

Tempest/Comet
08-11-2019, 12:21 AM
Kinoshita’s coach Liu said”although Ishikawa & Kihara also grew, it is Hayata’s growth that is most impressive”
so unfortunate for JNT this year...
(this disappeared in the last post:p)

Vlad Celler
08-11-2019, 02:57 AM
Today qualification will be published in Bulgaria Open?

So, in the eight Hina Hayata - two Chinese women ....
Feng Yalan and Zhang Qiang....
I won’t even speak, as usual, unlucky ....

By the way, in the Czech Republic there will be four rounds in qualification .. There can meet in qualification and three Chinese women in theory ....

apacible
08-12-2019, 02:32 PM
Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa have all played 8 events this year, which puts a cap on the WR points they can acquire by Jan. 2020. Now, each of them need at least a SF finish in a World Tour Regular Event (Bulgaria, Czech and Swedish Opens left this year) or a QF finish in a World Tour Platinum Event (German and Austrian Opens left this year) to get any type of gain in their WR. Why?

We expect Ito's, Ishikawa's and Hirano's lowest results of 675, 720 and 855 to be wiped out when all 3 play the World Tour Grand Finals later this year where each will get at least 1020 points to replace these results. The trio's second lowest results are all 900, so each of them needs to reach at least the SF in Bulgaria and Czech or their WR points will not increase since the next-lowest result of 900 would not be replaced. To illustrate: Even if Ito and Hirano lose in the first rounds of both the Bulgaria and Czech Open, and Ishikawa loses in the QF in both events, Hirano and Ito would still lead the race in the end.

With the initial draw out, it appears that Ishikawa and Hirano will likely need to face and beat at least one Chinese opponent to reach the SF. Ito's initial draw is good since she got drawn into a quarter without any Chinese players, but we still have to wait to see where the winners of the qualification groups will be drawn since up to 6 Chinese players can make the main draw.

With the lineups for the Asian Championships and Paraguay Open out, I just want to reiterate something I mentioned earlier this year: "Because the race to the Olympic singles event is based on world ranking, it creates a conflict of interest between players. Naturally, you would also want your teammates to succeed and go deep in the tournaments, but that scenario would make it harder for you to overtake their ranking if you've already been knocked out of the same tournament." Furthermore, it incentivizes you to put your WR over team performance since it's WR that will get you an Olympic spot.

In any other year, Ito and Hayata would be playing in the Asian Championships. However, as soon as the Paraguay Open entry list was revealed, it became obvious that Ito and Hayata chose to enter the Paraguay Open rather than the Asian Championships for a better chance at boosting their WR and playing in the Olympics. I don't blame them for their decision since they had to make that decision based on the Olympic Qualification System that JTTA has in place. However, it's apparent that the system in place, which makes one's Olympic Qualification based solely on WR, has weakened the Japanese National Team as a whole. Now, Japan can't send its absolute best lineup to the Asian Championships since some members of the team are more concerned with gaining ranking points to give them a better chance at the Olympics. We also saw this last year as well when many top Japanese players skipped the Asian Games to play in the Bulgaria and Czech Opens, which offered more WR points.

In the end, we do not even know if Ito and Hayata's decision to join the Paraguay Open will pay off. Ito has no room for error and must win the event to get any kind of gain in the Race to Tokyo. The deadline for entries was supposed to be Aug. 11, but it seems that the deadline was moved to Aug. 14 (Maybe because of the low turnout). Anyway, the CNT still has 3 days to send some players to stop any kind of WR gain. Worst-case scenario is that Ito and Hayata do not gain any meaningful WR points and they also cannot help Japan in the Asian Championships. All of this stems from JTTA's WR-based Olympic Qualification System.

Vlad Celler
08-12-2019, 03:44 PM
Comprehensive analysis!

zeio
08-12-2019, 04:15 PM
All of this stems from JTTA's WR-based Olympic Qualification System.

Objection! All of this stems from my Idol Ishikawa's refusal to retire and her sidekick Kato's determination to interfere.

https://i.imgur.com/1RYjuWW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BOnGGtp.jpg


Ishikawa's getting so much help from everybody. I'd prolly friggin' break a W968 like a mad Korean if she doesn't make the singles for Tokyo Olympics.

We have the CNT pull out just enough players to give these 2 "team killers" a chance at the 1st stop of Diamond tier. And now Kihara is like a friggin' maid serving up precious points on a silver platter.

NextLevel
08-12-2019, 06:08 PM
Objection! All of this stems from my Idol Ishikawa's refusal to retire and her sidekick Kato's determination to interfere.

https://i.imgur.com/1RYjuWW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BOnGGtp.jpg

Blame Chen Meng as well... lol...

Janard
08-14-2019, 12:50 AM
Not sure if this is supposed to mean anything but I read on a Chinese webpage that Hayata was not one of the 9 athletes (Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano, Sato, Shibata, Kato, Nagasaki, Kihara, Haruna Ojio) sponsored by JTTA for Bulgaria Open. While Japanese players paying for their own entries on the World Tour is not an unusual sight, the fact that Hayata is isolated from the core players seems pretty ominous for the former? Or are there some other factors here?

Vlad Celler
08-14-2019, 03:58 AM
Separate lists of players participating at the expense of JTTA and at their own expense are published on JTTA ...

For example, for Czech Open:
http://www.jtta.or.jp/tournament/tabid/125/rptid/488/Default.aspx


女子選手
(自主参加)
Female player
(self-participating)

Hina Hayata - at her own expense participates ....Like in Bulgaria...
And such a situation with her for almost a year ......

apacible
08-14-2019, 05:10 AM
Not sure if this is supposed to mean anything but I read on a Chinese webpage that Hayata was not one of the 9 athletes (Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano, Sato, Shibata, Kato, Nagasaki, Kihara, Haruna Ojio) sponsored by JTTA for Bulgaria Open. While Japanese players paying for their own entries on the World Tour is not an unusual sight, the fact that Hayata is isolated from the core players seems pretty ominous for the former? Or are there some other factors here?

I think it has to do with WR more than anything. If you notice, JTTA sponsored the top 6 Japanese Women based on WR. (The number of 6 players also happens to be the supposed limit per National Association that can participate in the World Tour event, but this isn't usually enforced strictly except for some tournaments like the HK Open) The others that are sponsored are promising juniors like Kihara and Nagasaki. In the Japan Open, where the host national association's entry limit is increased to 12 players instead of 6 players, Hayata was actually sponsored by JTTA. Hayata was also sponsored in World Tour events last year when she still had a high WR of Top 20. I don't think her lack of sponsorship means anything bad for her aside from the fact that she needs to get her WR up.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-14-2019, 02:49 PM
i will try to see whats going on with Hina
Maybe she was unhappy of not being selected, quarreled with her federation, and they punished her ???

zeio
08-14-2019, 03:24 PM
https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/table-tennis/1322878/
2019/3/26

…日本卓球協会の関係者は早田の奮闘ぶりに「今、最も勢いのある選手と言っていい」と評価。劉を下したことで「中国でも研究対象になるなど、かなり警戒されているようだ」と明かした。

…またチャレンジプラスの優勝では大きくポイントを稼げず、協会関係者は「(26日開幕のワールドツアー)カタールオープンで優勝するくらいでなければ上位に食い込むのは難しい」と指した。さらに世界選手権の代表選考会では逆転負けを喫するなど「ここ一番に弱いイメージもある」ことも払拭しなければならない。
An official of the Japan Table Tennis Association evaluated Hayato's struggle as “it can be said she's the most powerful player now”. By defeating Liu, he said, “There seems to be a lot of caution, such as being a subject of research in China.”

The Challenge Plus winner won't earn a lot of points, and the association officials pointed out, "(World Tour starting on the 26th) It is difficult to get into the top unless you win the Qatar Open." In addition, it must be dispelled that “there are some weak images here” such as getting upset at the World Championship national team trial.

zeio
08-14-2019, 04:03 PM
https://www.dailyshincho.jp/article/2019/02030559/?all=1
2019/1/31

…「実は、強化本部は、何としても早田を選びたい。そうすれば団体戦のダブルスで勝ちが見込めますから」
…「早田の世界ランクは、日本人の10番手なんです。上位者を押しのけて選べば、当然異論が噴出する。だから、早田にはシングルスも頑張ってほしいわけです」
…「早田には、この1年はシングルスに専念して、ダブルスを休止してほしいくらい。そうすれば、中国に研究されずに済みますし」
...“Actually, the Development Headquarter wants to choose Hayata by any means. That way, we can expect to win in team doubles.”
...“Hayata's world ranking is 10th among Japanese. If you choose her over the top players, you'll naturally get an outcry. That’s why I want Hayata to work hard on singles.”
...“I would like Hayata to concentrate on singles for this year and put doubles on hold. That way, you won't get studied by China.”

karupinkun
08-14-2019, 05:46 PM
Unfortunatly this article is from january. A lot could have changed since the beginning of the year. At least Hayata proved her value in doubles with the silver medal at the wttc!

zeio
08-14-2019, 06:13 PM
Recovered this gem.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21225-Japan-Open-2019&p=278389&viewfull=1#post278389
https://i.imgur.com/SZS079f.png

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81397&PID=1012822&title=alljapan-table-tennis-championships-2018-115-21#1012822
https://i.imgur.com/i1Rv2a2.png

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-14-2019, 06:32 PM
@zeio
on the french forum, someone reports that Hayata is at the Bulgarian Open at her own expense, no support from JTTA.
Any rumours that she went into trouble with her federation ?

Tempest/Comet
08-14-2019, 09:31 PM
As far as the “own expense”is concerned , this has been happening most of this year when Hayata fell in WR ranking and was relegated to the Reserves Team. JNT only funds the top 6, plus whoever JOC sends as jr potentials, anybody else can go though, on their own (thru sponsors), if the organizers lifts the 6/association rule.

Janard
08-15-2019, 02:34 AM
As far as the “own expense”is concerned , this has been happening most of this year when Hayata fell in WR ranking and was relegated to the Reserves Team. JNT only funds the top 6, plus whoever JOC sends as jr potentials, anybody else can go though, on their own (thru sponsors), if the organizers lifts the 6/association rule.

JNT/JTTA has an interesting obsession with world rankings, even though everyone knows it's more of a reference than anything. Not sure if funding Shibata Saki will accomplish anything, my personal opinion that is.

Tempest/Comet
08-15-2019, 04:01 AM
R
JNT/JTTA has an interesting obsession with world rankings, even though everyone knows it's more of a reference than anything. Not sure if funding Shibata Saki will accomplish anything, my personal opinion that is.
We agree. This whole dependancy on WR to be the sole criteria will come back to haunt JTTA, as with the early Jan 2020 decision, and public announcement. It’s just too soon, too rigid, and tying their own hands. Also China still dominates and because of the transparent process, JNT becomes open to opposition’s gaming the process (not claiming China will).
Sato, Shibata and Kato all rank higher than Hayata, and yet their chances of being one of the 3 selected is minimal, given only 5 more months to catch up. And even IF, a big IF, they do, they just don’t fit in any scheme of things at all.
We are of the opinion that the ultimate opponent will be China. Then let those with higher ratio of confronting CNT have a go at them. Ito has results, Hayata has results, quite consistent too. JNT’s obstinacy is by itself a huge hurdle to their own Tokyo dreams.
Just our two cents worth ...ok 4 cents then.

Vlad Celler
08-15-2019, 04:04 AM
JNT/JTTA excessive principle ....

zeio
08-15-2019, 06:57 AM
@zeio
on the french forum, someone reports that Hayata is at the Bulgarian Open at her own expense, no support from JTTA.
Any rumours that she went into trouble with her federation ?

Not that I know of for Hayata. There are, however, many gossips and rumors around Ishikawa.

Given the fact that Baba coached Hayata's matches here in Bulgaria Open(other Opens as well), I doubt they're at odds.

As far as regulations go, the national team head coach, in this case Mika Baba, is responsible for selecting players and those eligible to participate at their own expense to dispatch to international competitions, except for WTTC and Olympics, which have specific guidelines, with an appeal mechanism in place.

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/association/provision/kitei2018/35_kyoukahonbu_20180926.pdf

(35) 強化本部規程
...
(NT監督の役割)
第8条 NT監督の役割、権限を次の通りとする。
強化本部長・JNT・HNT監督との密接なコミュニケーションの基に、以下の事項の実施を図る。
...
4) NTから国際大会へ派遣する選手・強化スタッフを選出、決定する。但し、世界選手権大会、オリンピックの出場選手については、別に定める手順に従う。
(35) Regulations for Development Headquarter
...
(Roles of NT head coach)
Article 8 The roles and authority of NT head coach are as follows.
The following items will be implemented based on close communication with the General Manager of Development Headquarters and JNT / HNT head coach.
...
4) Select and determine athletes / development staff to be dispatched from NT to the international competition. However, for the World Championships and Olympic athletes, follow the procedure specified separately.


(国際大会に自己負担で参加希望する選手の選考)
第30条 ITTFワールドツアー等の国際大会に自己負担で参加希望する選手の選考基準を以下の通り定める。
以下の条件を満たした選手は、NT監督の推薦を得て国際大会の出場を認めるものとする。但し、大会エントリー数の都合で人数制限をすることがある。
1) 直近の世界ランキング100位以内の者
2) 直近の全日本選手権シングルス16位以内の者
3) 直近の全日本社会人選手権シングルス8位以内の者
4) 直近の全日本大学総合(個人の部)シングルス8位以内の者
5) 直近の全日本選手権ジュニアの部シングルス4位以内の者
6) 直 近の 全日 本選 手権 カデッ トの 部 (13、14才 )シン グル ス2 位以 内の者
7) 直近のインターハイシングルス8位以内の者
8) 直近の全国中学校大会シングルス2位以内の者
9) JOCエリートアカデミーの者
10) 海外で活動中の選手はNT監督が推薦する者
11) NT選手、NT候補選手の者
12) 特にNT監督が推薦する者
...
(選手選考への異議申し立て)
第31条 選手選考への異議申し立てについて以下のように定める。1) 選手が第8 条 3) 4)、第11条3)5)、第29条及び第30条に基づく本会決定に対し、仲裁の申し立てを行う場合、その申し立ては、決定の日、あるいは、本会ウエブサイト掲載の日から2週間以内に日本スポーツ仲裁機構に到達しなければならない。また、本会は競技会への代表選手の選定結果について、決定当日、あるいは、本会事務局1日ないし2業務日以内に本会ウエブサイト( http://www.jtta.or.jp )に掲載する。
(Selection of players who wish to participate in international competitions at their own expense)
Article 30 The selection criteria for players who wish to participate in international tournaments such as ITTF World Tour at their own expense are as follows:
Athletes who meet the following conditions shall be allowed to participate in international competitions with the recommendation of NT head coach. However, the number of entries may be limited due to the number of entries in the tournament.
1) Those who are within the 100th in the most recent world ranking
2) Those who finishes top 16 in singles at the most recent All-Japan Championship
3) Those who finishes top 8 in singles at the most recent All-Japan National Championships
4) Those who finishes top 8 in singles at the most recent All-Japan University General (Individual Division)
5) Those who finishes top 4 in singles at the most recent All-Japan Championship Junior Division
6) Those who finishes top 2 in singles at the most recent All-Japan Championship Cadet Division (13, 14 years old)
7) Those who finishes top 8 at the most recent Inter-High Singles
8) Those who finishes top 2 at the most recent National Junior Highschool Tournament
9) Those who belong to the JOC Elite Academy
10) Players who are active oversea by recommendation of NT head coach
11) NT players and NT reserve players
12) Those especially recommended by NT head coach
...
(Appeals for player selection)
Article 31 Appeals for player selection are defined as follows. 1) If an athlete makes a petition for arbitration against a decision of the association under Article 8, 3) 4), 11) 3) 5), 29 and 30, it shall be on the date of the decision, or alternatively, the Japan Sports Arbitration Organization must be reached within 2 weeks from the date of posting on the association website. In addition, the association will decide on the results of the selection of representative players for the competition on the day of the decision, or posted within 1 to 2 business days on the association website (http://www.jtta.or.jp).

Janard
08-15-2019, 07:32 AM
Not that I know of for Hayata. There are, however, many gossips and rumors around Ishikawa.

Given the fact that Baba coached Hayata's matches here in Bulgaria Open(other Opens as well), I doubt they're at odds

Haha I actually think Ishikawa did better when Qiu Jianxing coached her on court. I have never felt that Mika Baba was impressive?

zeio
08-15-2019, 08:01 AM
Haha I actually think Ishikawa did better when Qiu Jianxing coached her on court. I have never felt that Mika Baba was impressive?

Oh, Mika Baba's "coaching experience" is not to be sneezed at.


https://youtu.be/bmQUUcCRNaM

apacible
08-15-2019, 02:08 PM
JNT/JTTA has an interesting obsession with world rankings, even though everyone knows it's more of a reference than anything. Not sure if funding Shibata Saki will accomplish anything, my personal opinion that is.

Good news, Hayata's being sponsored by JTTA for the Swedish Open. Bad news, she's not sponsored for the German Open, so she'll have to pay her way to enter. Good luck figuring the JTTA out.

Vlad Celler
08-15-2019, 02:36 PM
Some kind of strange logic at JTTA ....

driversbeat
08-18-2019, 11:12 AM
Marginal gains for Ishikawa and Ito, wasted trip for Hirano? Hirano is the one who has the least going for her atm (not as stable as Ishikawa, best pairing is with Shibata)

Vlad Celler
08-18-2019, 01:35 PM
Oddly enough, the greatest benefit for Hayata ... In terms of ITTF rating ...Regardless of the results the Czech Republic Open - she place in the next ITTF ranking is about 28-30 ....
Ishikawa can stay above Ito only by a miracle .....

And of course XE and Xintong will enter the top 16 ...

Vlad Celler
08-18-2019, 04:11 PM
I hope that Hayata will be able to get into the main draw .... The only problem is that Shin Yubin (Korea) ....

Janard
08-18-2019, 04:17 PM
I hope that Hayata will be able to get into the main draw .... The only problem is that Shin Yubin (Korea) ....

Honestly I don't think Shin is a threat to Hayata, unless the latter lets herself down again by losing focus.

Vlad Celler
08-18-2019, 04:38 PM
Will hope.....:)
And then, how lucky ...... Of the 11 Chinese women will be a maximum of 7 plus two seeded in the main grid ....:mad:

apacible
08-19-2019, 04:22 PM
Japan Women's Standings after Bulgaria Open
19637
I'll do a more in-depth analysis after the Czech Open, since a lot can still change in terms of WR, seeding, etc. after this tournament. For now, I'll just outline some potential "goals" for some of the players in the Czech Open to help them in achieving their Olympic Dream. Again, for the top 3 contenders (Ito, Ishikawa, Hirano), at least a SF finish is needed for any type of gain in the Jan. 2020 WR.



Ishikawa- She wants to at least reach the final in order to maintain her standing as the highest WR Japanese Woman. Anything less will lead to Ito overtaking her next month. It won't really affect her seeding in tournaments, but given JTTA's obsession with WR, some of the opportunities that may have been given to her had she still been the highest ranked Japanese player may be given to her other teammates. Of course, she'll also want to continue working on Mixed Doubles, as it will be her safety net to the Olympics in case she doesn't finish in the Top 2 by 2020.
Hirano- Her performance in this tournament will dictate how easy or difficult the rest of her year will be in terms of draws. In my opinion, her performance in the World Cup, due to the high WR points given, will play a big part in determining if she will play in the Singles Event. To overtake Cheng I-Ching and be a top 4 seed in the World Cup, she's needs to reach the final. If Hirano manages to win the tournament, and Ishikawa doesn't make the final, she'll end up overtaking Ishikawa in WR, which would drop Ishikawa to WR #9. If she manages to pull that off, it'll be a big boost to Hirano's Olympic chances since all of Hirano's tough R16 draws will become Ishikawa's for the last few tournaments of the year. Given Hirano's current form, it may seem far-fetched, but she needs to have a breakthrough performance sooner or later, as Ishikawa is close to overtaking her.
Hayata- According to the article Zeio posted, the JTTA wants Hayata to improve her WR to make it easier for them to choose her for the Olympics since it will be hard for them to justify selecting her over other higher-ranked players if her ranking is so low. Even though she's out of the singles race, she may still have to be ranked 4th or 5th on the team at the end of the year for JTTA to consider her, so her goal is just to go as far as possible in the remaining tournaments while hoping her other teammates don't advance too far.
Ito- Something more important for her than doing well in this tournament is monitoring her eye injury to make sure it doesn't get worse. If not, she and Mizutani will become the most legally blind doubles pairing on the world tour.


As promised, I did a table for the Japan Men's Race as well:
19639



Mizutani- If he can continue pairing well with Ito, he'll at least have a safety net in being chosen for the Olympics in case he doesn't finish in the Top 2 WR among Japanese Men.
Niwa- His recent World Tour performances have been disastrous. Even though he was an advantage over Mizutani by that fact that he's playing in the World Cup, this may be offset by the fact that's he's not in the top 15 of the World Tour Standings. He's in danger of not being invited to the other T2 events and may not even make the Grand Finals while Mizutani will probably do so. He has to focus more on his singles performances from now on since he doesn't have the "doubles" safety net that Mizutani has with Ito.
Harimoto- His Olympic spot is locked in place, so he should mainly focus on improving himself and gaining confidence through this year's events in preparation for next year.

Vlad Celler
08-19-2019, 04:44 PM
Indeed, in order for Ishikawa to maintain an advantage over Ito in the ranking, she must reach the final in the Czech Open......Nine against one, that she will not succeed ....
Hirano faces big deductions, and reserves are small ..... The result is a drop in the next rating list ....
Hayata, on the contrary, will rise .... Tentatively, it will be at the end of the third ten, 28-30 places ....
(but this is due to the fact that players above Hayata in the ranking have big deductions for old bonuses ...)

zeio
08-21-2019, 05:48 PM
Better late than never. NHK documentary series on the race for Tokyo 2020.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49wMzqK-ao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDXx566gl0k

karupinkun
08-22-2019, 10:06 AM
Ito und Mizutani once again demolished Ishikawa and Harimoto in mixed doubles. I cant see a possibly scenario where either Ishikawa or Harimoto will be picked for the mixed double competition at the olympics.
In my eyes Harimoto is just not a good doubles player in general. Ishikawa had some good mixed results
as the competition was quite new to scene, but now that teams put more focus into it she doesnt show
the neccasary results.

As Harimoto is set as an olympic participant it might be good for him to focus on singles and the two single
games in the team competition. For Ishikawa its more problematic. If she doesnt make the olympic singles
she has not much to justify the 3. spot for the team tournament, which most likly have to play the double game.

treatassignmenthelpuk
08-22-2019, 10:14 AM
I don't know playing Table Tennis but i really love watching this game. it's beautiful game with lots of excitements...

pongfugrasshopper
08-23-2019, 01:10 PM
Miu Hirano's path to the QF: NARUMOTO Ayami, MATELOVA Hana. Mima Ito's path to the QF: Hina Hayata, Chen Xingtong. And JNT wants to base Olympic selection on luck of the draw? Anyway, I hope Mima Ito wins against CXT today.

karupinkun
08-23-2019, 02:58 PM
Just look how much bad luck hayata had with her draws all year long. ishikawa often had the easiest draws (due to top 4 seedings) and could do anything with it. Still she is in competition for the olympic singles spot.

For the world ranking your top 8 results over the year counts. I just looked it up and Ishikawa has just ONE result from 2019. Everything else ist from 2018. Be carful as a little rant is coming:

2 results are from team events where a win against D-Tier player counted as much as winning against Ding Ning or someone like this. At the team worldcup she won against SGP (twice), EGY, PRK, SGP and got 1500 points for it. This is as much as reaching semi-final of and platinum event. At the team WTTC she won against UKR (twice), EGY, HUN, AUT, USA, COR and won 1750 points. Nearly as much as winning a normal world tour event. HOW ****ED UP IS THIS? An now she is getting free T2 points for her world ranking just by participating. JUST WOW.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-23-2019, 04:24 PM
Just look how much bad luck hayata had with her draws all year long. ishikawa often had the easiest draws (due to top 4 seedings) and could do anything with it. Still she is in competition for the olympic singles spot.

For the world ranking your top 8 results over the year counts. I just looked it up and Ishikawa has just ONE result from 2019. Everything else ist from 2018. Be carful as a little rant is coming:

2 results are from team events where a win against D-Tier player counted as much as winning against Ding Ning or someone like this. At the team worldcup she won against SGP (twice), EGY, PRK, SGP and got 1500 points for it. This is as much as reaching semi-final of and platinum event. At the team WTTC she won against UKR (twice), EGY, HUN, AUT, USA, COR and won 1750 points. Nearly as much as winning a normal world tour event. HOW ****ED UP IS THIS? An now she is getting free T2 points for her world ranking just by participating. JUST WOW.

exactly

driversbeat
08-26-2019, 03:17 AM
To be fair, a win against an Egyptian player will equal a win against Ding Ning anywhere. It's how far in a tournament you go that matters.

As imperfect as the selection process is, it does make wins against chinese players at world tours that much more valuable. All the players have upped their game, wheareas in the past the expectation would have been to beat everyone but the chinese.

zeio
08-26-2019, 10:40 AM
https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165923021971812352
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC4wzpUUYAAHRlW.jpg

https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165262908827172864
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECvYcA_UwAERkri.jpg

Events left:
ATTC Sep 15-22, Ito skipping
T2 CHN Sep 26-29
WT SWE OPN Oct 1-6
WTP GER OPN Oct 8-13
WWC Oct 18-20, for Ishikawa and Hirano only
TWC Nov 6-10
WTP AUT OPN Nov 12-17
T2 SGP Nov 21-24
WTGF Dec 12-15

From here on out, gaining points will become much much harder, in order to replace their best-8 results.

3 lowest points
Ito 1x1125pts, 2x900pts
Hirano 3x900pts
Ishikawa 3x900pts

For Ishikawa and Hirano, they'll need to reach QF of WTP(1125pts) or SF of WT(1170pts), at a minimum. For the ATTC, Ishikawa will have to reach the final(1350pts) whereas Hirano will only have to finish 4th(1080pts) to replace their Asian Cup results(1170pts vs 855pts).

Therefore, the bonus points from the final T2 stop will be very critical here.

NextLevel
08-26-2019, 11:16 AM
To be fair, a win against an Egyptian player will equal a win against Ding Ning anywhere. It's how far in a tournament you go that matters.

As imperfect as the selection process is, it does make wins against chinese players at world tours that much more valuable. All the players have upped their game, wheareas in the past the expectation would have been to beat everyone but the chinese.
The Teams tournaments also have another issue. The mor matches a player plays, the more points they can rack up (see Cheng I Ching). So you can be rewarded for being the top player on a team that mostly goes 3-1 and 3-2 and be penalized for being a player on a team that wins all its matches 3-0. I think that if the ITTF wants to continue that silly policy, it should mandate that all 5 matches be played.

zeio
08-26-2019, 11:33 AM
...I think that if the ITTF wants to continue that silly policy, it should mandate that all 5 matches be played.

Just like how WTTC used to do it until 1989. Or, make 1 win count only per team match.

Vlad Celler
08-26-2019, 02:14 PM
https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165923021971812352
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEC4wzpUUYAAHRlW.jpg

https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165262908827172864
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FECvYcA_UwAERkri.jpg

Events left:
ATTC Sep 15-22, Ito skipping
T2 CHN Sep 26-29
WT SWE OPN Oct 1-6
WTP GER OPN Oct 8-13
WWC Oct 18-20, for Ishikawa and Hirano only
TWC Nov 6-10
WTP AUT OPN Nov 12-17
T2 SGP Nov 21-24
WTGF Dec 12-15

From here on out, gaining points will become much much harder, in order to replace their best-8 results.

For Ishikawa, she'll need to reach R16 of WTP(900pts) or QF of WT(900pts), at a minimum. For ATTC, 5th(900pts), 6th(855pts), 7th(810pts), 8th(765pts).

Same case for Hirano, but she'll have an easier time because she has 2x720pts as opposed to 1 for Ishikawa.

For Ito, she has 1x675pts and 1x720pts, so she'll only need to reach R16 of WTP(900pts) or R16 of WT(720pts). However, she must rack up as many points as possible to offset for the WWC.

Therefore, the bonus points from the remaining T2 stops will be very critical here.


Question to those who know about the bonuses for T2 ....

Bonuses for the second and third T2 - will be stacked with bonuses for the first, already held, T2?

pongfugrasshopper
08-26-2019, 02:22 PM
Question to those who know about the bonuses for T2 ....

Bonuses for the second and third T2 - will be stacked with bonuses for the first, already held, T2?
I have not read anything in the 2019 World Ranking Document that indicates the bonus points from the T2 events cannot be stacked so I have to assume that they can be stacked... which makes it even more unfair to everyone else!

apacible
08-26-2019, 02:30 PM
https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165923021971812352
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%252Fforum%252Fcache.php%253Fimg%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%25252Fforum%25252Fcache.php%25253Fimg%25253Dhttps%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2525252Fforum%2525252Fcache.php%2525253Fimg%2525253Dhttps%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fpbs.twimg.com%252525252Fmedia%252525252FEC4wzpUUYAAHRlW.jpg

https://twitter.com/tmurayama10/status/1165262908827172864
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%252Fforum%252Fcache.php%253Fimg%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%25252Fforum%25252Fcache.php%25253Fimg%25253Dhttps%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2525252Fforum%2525252Fcache.php%2525253Fimg%2525253Dhttps%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fpbs.twimg.com%252525252Fmedia%252525252FECvYcA_UwAERkri.jpg

Events left:
ATTC Sep 15-22, Ito skipping
T2 CHN Sep 26-29
WT SWE OPN Oct 1-6
WTP GER OPN Oct 8-13
WWC Oct 18-20, for Ishikawa and Hirano only
TWC Nov 6-10
WTP AUT OPN Nov 12-17
T2 SGP Nov 21-24
WTGF Dec 12-15

From here on out, gaining points will become much much harder, in order to replace their best-8 results.

For Ishikawa, she'll need to reach R16 of WTP(900pts) or QF of WT(900pts), at a minimum. For ATTC, 5th(900pts), 6th(855pts), 7th(810pts), 8th(765pts).

Same case for Hirano, but she'll have an easier time because she has 2x720pts as opposed to 1 for Ishikawa.

For Ito, she has 1x675pts and 1x720pts, so she'll only need to reach R16 of WTP(900pts) or R16 of WT(720pts). However, she must rack up as many points as possible to offset for the WWC.

Therefore, the bonus points from the remaining T2 stops will be very critical here.

Hey Zeio! I think you misread the chart. The 8 results shown in the twitter chart you posted aren't each player's top 8 results but only show these players' results from the last 8 events. If you notice, the results in the chart only include those from the China Open and onwards, but don't include the Qatar Open and the WTTC 2019. The cells highlighted in Green are those results good enough to form the top 8 results of the player while those highlighted in gray have already been eliminated from the player's top 8 results. In fact, Ito, Ishikawa and Hirano all have 900 points as their worst Top 8 Result. Please see the spreadsheet below containing all events:
1968119682

Basically, for Ito, Hirano or Ishikawa to get any kind of gain in WR points towards the Jan. 2020 ranking, they need at least a SF finish in a World Tour Regular event and at least a QF finish in a World Tour Platinum event since their lowest result among the top 8 is 900. In fact, Ito will have the hardest time gaining ranking points as compared to Hirano and Ishikawa because Ito only has 2x 900pts while both Ishikawa and Hirano have 3x 900pts.

Vlad Celler
08-26-2019, 02:41 PM
In addition - Ito faces big deductions of old bonuses for November 2018 ....
(will be reflected in the December ITTF ranking) ...

ISHIKAWA (-1260)
ITO (-1800,-1350)=-3150
HIRANO (-1350)

Perhaps in vain Ito refused Paraguay .... Her reserves are really weak .....

apacible
08-26-2019, 05:03 PM
With all August events complete, here are the things to lookout for in the upcoming months:

September World Rankings
For the first time in her career, Ito will be the highest World-ranked Japanese Woman at WR#7 while Ishikawa will be WR#8. Their seeding won't really be affected, so it's more of a prestige thing. Maybe it could lead JTTA to choose Ito to play 2 singles in the upcoming Team World Cup, so we'll see if Ito gets any perks from this development. After all, WR is the main reason she's hasn't played in the World Cup the past three years.

Hirano will be WR#9 and Cheng I-Ching WR#10. Hirano's goal is to be ranked higher than Cheng by October to get a top 4 seed for the World Cup. Cheng can overtake Hirano by finishing in the QF of the Asian Champs or by outperforming Hirano by at least one round in T2 China. How this plays out can make a huge difference is Hirano's chances of playing singles in the Olympics.

Paraguay Open Challenge Plus
Will Ito regret cancelling her entry in this tournament? Had she played, it would have almost been a guaranteed 1100 points since her level is significantly higher than the other players entered. The huge lead of Ito has diminished after the Czech Open after Hirano and Ishikawa were able to defeat several Chinese players. Before, Ito could simply rely on beating Chinese players 30-40% of the time to maintain her lead since Ishikawa and Hirano were expected to be sure losses to Chinese players due to their huge losing streaks against China. Now, Ishikawa and Hirano have both shown improvements in their game, and it would only take one big tournament from either or both to overtake Ito. If Hirano finishes 3rd in the World Cup, she overtakes Ito. If Ishikawa finishes 2nd, she overtakes Ito. If both get hot in this one tournament, Ito may be in trouble.

With Ito out, Hayata and Hashimoto are the favorites in this tournament. Hayata still has a shot at being selected for the Olympics as the 3rd Player, but getting her ranking up to 4th or 5th on the Japanese National Team will greatly help her chances. She needs to win this tournament to keep her hopes alive.

Mixed Doubles
The Ito/Mizutani pair seems to be the most successful Japanese pair this year and have had good results despite only playing 4 tournaments together. Despite some tough losses, they have still remained competitive in all their matches. By now, I think we can conclude that Ishikawa and Harimoto do not mesh well together. Harimoto misses Hayata and Ishikawa misses Yoshimura. It's a clear example of how the best players do not always combine to make the best doubles pairings. Let's see if JTTA decides to field Ishikawa/Yoshimura or Hayata/Harimoto again.

T-League Season 2
T-League starts this week and while it's not an official ITTF event, a lot can be learned from how the Japanese players perform here.
Kinoshita Meister Tokyo has a team of Harimoto, Mizutani, Niwa, Oshima and Hou Yingchao. On its face, the team seems overpowered, but given the recent form of Harimoto, Mizutani and Niwa, the defending champions may struggle. This is basically a test-run of how an Olympic team of Harimoto, Mizutani, Niwa will perform.

Nippon Life Red Elf
Can Hayata repeat her incredible MVP performance this season? Hayata has a bigger load to carry for her team now that the Chinese players on the team aren't playing in season 2. She now has a bigger target on her back, so it will be interesting to see how she deals with the added pressure.

Also, now that Red Elf's premier doubles team of Chang Chenchen and Jiang Hui is gone, who will play doubles? Will the team test out a Hirano/Hayata doubles pairing? If they do, and the pair does well, will this factor in JTTA's decision in choosing the Japan Women's Olympic Team?

Sali
08-26-2019, 07:27 PM
With all August events complete, here are the things to lookout for in the upcoming months:

September World Rankings
For the first time in her career, Ito will be the highest World-ranked Japanese Woman at WR#7 while Ishikawa will be WR#8. Their seeding won't really be affected, so it's more of a prestige thing. Maybe it could lead JTTA to choose Ito to play 2 singles in the upcoming Team World Cup, so we'll see if Ito gets any perks from this development. After all, WR is the main reason she's hasn't played in the World Cup the past three years.

Hirano will be WR#9 and Cheng I-Ching WR#10. Hirano's goal is to be ranked higher than Cheng by October to get a top 4 seed for the World Cup. Cheng can overtake Hirano by finishing in the QF of the Asian Champs or by outperforming Hirano by at least one round in T2 China. How this plays out can make a huge difference is Hirano's chances of playing singles in the Olympics.

Paraguay Open Challenge Plus
Will Ito regret cancelling her entry in this tournament? Had she played, it would have almost been a guaranteed 1100 points since her level is significantly higher than the other players entered. The huge lead of Ito has diminished after the Czech Open after Hirano and Ishikawa were able to defeat several Chinese players. Before, Ito could simply rely on beating Chinese players 30-40% of the time to maintain her lead since Ishikawa and Hirano were expected to be sure losses to Chinese players due to their huge losing streaks against China. Now, Ishikawa and Hirano have both shown improvements in their game, and it would only take one big tournament from either or both to overtake Ito. If Hirano finishes 3rd in the World Cup, she overtakes Ito. If Ishikawa finishes 2nd, she overtakes Ito. If both get hot in this one tournament, Ito may be in trouble.

With Ito out, Hayata and Hashimoto are the favorites in this tournament. Hayata still has a shot at being selected for the Olympics as the 3rd Player, but getting her ranking up to 4th or 5th on the Japanese National Team will greatly help her chances. She needs to win this tournament to keep her hopes alive.

Mixed Doubles
The Ito/Mizutani pair seems to be the most successful Japanese pair this year and have had good results despite only playing 4 tournaments together. Despite some tough losses, they have still remained competitive in all their matches. By now, I think we can conclude that Ishikawa and Harimoto do not mesh well together. Harimoto misses Hayata and Ishikawa misses Yoshimura. It's a clear example of how the best players do not always combine to make the best doubles pairings. Let's see if JTTA decides to field Ishikawa/Yoshimura or Hayata/Harimoto again.

T-League Season 2
T-League starts this week and while it's not an official ITTF event, a lot can be learned from how the Japanese players perform here.
Kinoshita Meister Tokyo has a team of Harimoto, Mizutani, Niwa, Oshima and Hou Yingchao. On its face, the team seems overpowered, but given the recent form of Harimoto, Mizutani and Niwa, the defending champions may struggle. This is basically a test-run of how an Olympic team of Harimoto, Mizutani, Niwa will perform.

Nippon Life Red Elf
Can Hayata repeat her incredible MVP performance this season? Hayata has a bigger load to carry for her team now that the Chinese players on the team aren't playing in season 2. She now has a bigger target on her back, so it will be interesting to see how she deals with the added pressure.

Also, now that Red Elf's premier doubles team of Chang Chenchen and Jiang Hui is gone, who will play doubles? Will the team test out a Hirano/Hayata doubles pairing? If they do, and the pair does well, will this factor in JTTA's decision in choosing the Japan Women's Olympic Team?
Very interesting. I think now Ito is in trouble, since she has competition. They all working hard and it pays off. Ishikawa was really poor and since the score 3:4 against SYS I saw something new. Then she defeat World no 1. If you earlier asked me who is going to win I would bet 1milion dolar for CM. Now few other wins against chinese players is also confirming the New level.
I did not expect much from Hirano but this Czech Open despite the score it is also New level.
Sadly I do not see much improvement from Ito and it is a big headache for JTTA.

pongfugrasshopper
08-26-2019, 09:08 PM
Very interesting. I think now Ito is in trouble, since she has competition. They all working hard and it pays off. Ishikawa was really poor and since the score 3:4 against SYS I saw something new. Then she defeat World no 1. If you earlier asked me who is going to win I would bet 1milion dolar for CM. Now few other wins against chinese players is also confirming the New level.
I did not expect much from Hirano but this Czech Open despite the score it is also New level.
Sadly I do not see much improvement from Ito and it is a big headache for JTTA.
I think she needs to bring it down on the backhand. She's going 200 miles per hour because she wants to dominate those backhand rallies, but I think she can still do so slowing down by maybe 10%. That's what MH did, and it did wonders for her consistentcy. She needs to end the year strong and she needs a mental break so decided to skip Paraguay. And it will give her some time to recalibrate a more effective BH. I hope she comes back refreshed and ready to go.

driversbeat
08-27-2019, 01:18 AM
Mima's decision to pull out of an opportunity to earn points is so bewildering. I hope she isn't injured. Ironic that she's going to be the top rated Japanese player cause her singles spot is in danger more than ever right now

Tempest/Comet
08-27-2019, 06:25 AM
Hayata is not on the German Op list!
http://www.jtta.or.jp/tournament/tabid/125/rptid/497/Default.aspx
cut off is Aug29 for independants.

Sali
08-27-2019, 07:33 AM
I think she needs to bring it down on the backhand. She's going 200 miles per hour because she wants to dominate those backhand rallies, but I think she can still do so slowing down by maybe 10%. That's what MH did, and it did wonders for her consistentcy. She needs to end the year strong and she needs a mental break so decided to skip Paraguay. And it will give her some time to recalibrate a more effective BH. I hope she comes back refreshed and ready to go.

I think you are incorrect. If you have short pips on BH side you do not have much choice, because you cannot put much spin on the ball. So if you play slower then your opponent will counter it easily and takeover. That is why Ito needs to play with power.
Generaly chinese players are more consistent and they have learnt how to bring every ball back to the table. So it is not easy to win topspin exchange with them. That is the reason why Ito tries to finish the point ASAP, if not her chances to win the point drops in every shot.

pongfugrasshopper
08-27-2019, 02:21 PM
I think you are incorrect. If you have short pips on BH side you do not have much choice, because you cannot put much spin on the ball. So if you play slower then your opponent will counter it easily and takeover. That is why Ito needs to play with power.
Generaly chinese players are more consistent and they have learnt how to bring every ball back to the table. So it is not easy to win topspin exchange with them. That is the reason why Ito tries to finish the point ASAP, if not her chances to win the point drops in every shot.
She doesn't need to nor should she play slower than her opponent. Fast is good, but ridiculously fast to the point of not being able to land her shots is self defeating. She can still win with a combination of speed (not ridiculous speed) and placement (which she certainly has the ability). She actually has a great wide backhand (notice the placement), forehand parallel transition combo that works very well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jggj29FFdSQ&t=6m45s

Vlad Celler
08-27-2019, 03:07 PM
Hayata is not on the German Op list!
http://www.jtta.or.jp/tournament/tabid/125/rptid/497/Default.aspx
cut off is Aug29 for independants.

Oh yes....:mad:

I just don’t understand what’s the matter ... Why? Limit on the total number of participants?

Vlad Celler
08-28-2019, 04:46 AM
Curious news about T2 Diamond ....
The main thing - the third T2 is canceled, the second T2 is postponed to November ....

https://www.ittf.com/2019/08/28/t2-announces-postponement-t2-diamond-2019-china-due-permit-issues/

If so, then, of course, all preliminary calculations of the world ranking for January 2020 for top Japanese women are subject to rethinking ....

And the question remains - if the second T2 takes place - how will its results be taken into account in the ITTF ranking? The largest of the two results? The sum of the results of the first and second?
(https://www.ittf.com/2019/08/28/t2-announces-postponement-t2-diamond-2019-china-due-permit-issues/)

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-28-2019, 09:37 AM
The Chinese answer to ITTF
´We are fed up with all your BS’

Vlad Celler
08-28-2019, 11:55 AM
I do not understand....

1 - Why was Hayata recalled from Germany Open?

It was announced that four Grand Final finalists will receive an invitation to Tokyo 2020 ...

2 - Why is JTTA not announcing a pair of Harimoto-Hayata for the remaining tours until the end of the year? This couple could well get to the Grand Final and, possibly, to the top 4 ...

3 - Similarly - a pair of Ito-Hayata ...
I do not understand....:(

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-28-2019, 11:57 AM
I emitted the hypothesis that Hayata got into trouble with JTTA after exchanging some words

Vlad Celler
08-28-2019, 12:07 PM
I also thought about it ......

NextLevel
08-28-2019, 12:29 PM
I emitted the hypothesis that Hayata got into trouble with JTTA after exchanging some words

When would this have happened?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
08-28-2019, 12:59 PM
I have no info. This is total speculation. These things happen. A recent example is Adrien Mattenet and Stephane Ouaiche being discarded from the French team

Sali
08-28-2019, 01:36 PM
I do not understand....

1 - Why was Hayata recalled from Germany Open?

It was announced that four Grand Final finalists will receive an invitation to Tokyo 2020 ...

2 - Why is JTTA not announcing a pair of Harimoto-Hayata for the remaining tours until the end of the year? This couple could well get to the Grand Final and, possibly, to the top 4 ...

3 - Similarly - a pair of Ito-Hayata ...
I do not understand....:(

I think the reason is they already made decision not sending Hayata to olympics. So testing her in doubles or mix doubles does not make any sense.

Vlad Celler
08-28-2019, 01:47 PM
What do you think is the point of testing ... the Hirano-Shibata pair?The last rounds of ITTF they regularly play WD .....

NextLevel
08-28-2019, 02:35 PM
What do you think is the point of testing ... the Hirano-Shibata pair?The last rounds of ITTF they regularly play WD .....

They are keeping Hirano practiced in doubles. She already has a decent history with Ito and they haven't decided their teams doubles pairing though they know their team.

Hysteresis
08-28-2019, 11:53 PM
Well, for those complaining about t2 bonus points.

It seems T2 Haikou has been "postponed". ITTF's announcement is a bit unclear.

"T2 has announced the postponement of T2 Diamond 2019 China after its discussions with the local organising committee came to a halt. With little over four weeks remaining to the event, T2 has decided to reduce 2019’s three-event series to two events, and will announce details for the rescheduling of T2 Diamond 2019 China."

This implies either the remaining T2 will be a rescheduled T2 China, and T2 Singapore has been cancelled. Or, more likely T2 China has been cancelled, and ITTF doesn't know what "postponed" means.

So at least T2 bonus points will be less of a factor now.

Tempest/Comet
08-31-2019, 08:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrwNgEG49sE
Ito Mima with Fan Zhendong T2-Malaysia 2019
(don't know where to put this, I'll just drop it here :p
more....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mDtCd9O2ZY

zeio
08-31-2019, 02:58 PM
Hey Zeio! I think you misread the chart. The 8 results shown in the twitter chart you posted aren't each player's top 8 results but only show these players' results from the last 8 events. If you notice, the results in the chart only include those from the China Open and onwards, but don't include the Qatar Open and the WTTC 2019. The cells highlighted in Green are those results good enough to form the top 8 results of the player while those highlighted in gray have already been eliminated from the player's top 8 results. In fact, Ito, Ishikawa and Hirano all have 900 points as their worst Top 8 Result. Please see the spreadsheet below containing all events:
1968119682

Basically, for Ito, Hirano or Ishikawa to get any kind of gain in WR points towards the Jan. 2020 ranking, they need at least a SF finish in a World Tour Regular event and at least a QF finish in a World Tour Platinum event since their lowest result among the top 8 is 900. In fact, Ito will have the hardest time gaining ranking points as compared to Hirano and Ishikawa because Ito only has 2x 900pts while both Ishikawa and Hirano have 3x 900pts.

Crap! Rookie mistake. Fixed it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KDnrGdpNZY

To never make the same blunder again, I spent the last few days and put together my own interactive excel file. Just put in new data and it'll handle all the calculations. I've tested it pretty extensively and the results should be reliable. Feel free to play with it.

Final update: Dec 14
20347

https://i.imgur.com/NZR0ITZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/qbGjUwl.png

Vlad Celler
09-01-2019, 04:25 AM
So, 2019 ITTF-ATTU Asian Table Tennis Championships....

How can its results change the position of players in the ITTF ranking 10/2019 (WS , 6th-10th places)?

Now:
ITO Mima 12620
ISHIKAWA Kasumi 12443 The minimum 8th result - 1170
HIRANO Miu 12140 The minimum 8th result - 1170
CHENG I-Ching 12125 The minimum 8th result - 880

Matches won in groups (max. 10) - 25 * n (max.250)
Loser in rnd of 16 - 720
8th - 4th position 765 - 900

While in the most favorable position - C.I.C. .....

zeio
09-01-2019, 06:22 AM
So, 2019 ITTF-ATTU Asian Table Tennis Championships....

How can its results change the position of players in the ITTF ranking 10/2019 (WS , 6th-10th places)?

Now:
ITO Mima 12620
ISHIKAWA Kasumi 12443 The minimum 8th result - 1170
HIRANO Miu 12140 The minimum 8th result - 1170
CHENG I-Ching 12125 The minimum 8th result - 880

Matches won in groups (max. 10) - 25 * n (max.250)
Loser in rnd of 16 - 720
8th - 4th position 765 - 1080

While in the most favorable position - C.I.C. .....

I think the ATTC doesn't have finishing position, but only finishing round, provided they haven't changed it. In that case, Hirano will have to reach F(1350pts) to replace 1170pts, while CIC will only have to reach QF(900pts) to replace 880pts. If Hirano doesn't and CIC does, they will switch in ranking for Oct, since they're only 15 points apart.

Vlad Celler
09-03-2019, 11:25 AM
Looks like JTTA put an end to Hina Hayata .....
At ATTС, she was not included in the team ...And that means she will not be included in participation in the WTC....
(and this is minus 600 points for the previous ...)
She doesn’t play in pairs in Sweden ...(Ishikawa-Hirano)...
German Open - it was announced initially, but the application was withdrawn ....
It's a pity...

Janard
09-03-2019, 11:27 AM
Why though? Are there rumours of disagreements with the JTTA?

Vlad Celler
09-03-2019, 12:58 PM
Alas .. Until only rumors ..... I do not know the facts .....

zeio
09-03-2019, 01:12 PM
Looks like JTTA put an end to Hina Hayata .....
At ATTС, she was not included in the team ...And that means she will not be included in participation in the WTC....
(and this is minus 600 points for the previous ...)
She doesn’t play in pairs in Sweden ...(Ishikawa-Hirano)...
German Open - it was announced initially, but the application was withdrawn ....
It's a pity...

Japan is the host for the TWC, so they don't need to qualify. On top of that, teams, not players, that were top finishers at the previous team events of ATTC(2017) and WTTC(2018) are invited. So, Hayata could play the TWC as long as JTTA picks her.

apacible
09-03-2019, 01:13 PM
Looks like JTTA put an end to Hina Hayata .....
At ATTС, she was not included in the team ...And that means she will not be included in participation in the WTC....
(and this is minus 600 points for the previous ...)
She doesn’t play in pairs in Sweden ...(Ishikawa-Hirano)...
German Open - it was announced initially, but the application was withdrawn ....
It's a pity...

Actually, Hayata isn't playing WD in Sweden since she's going to be paired with Harimoto again for Mixed Doubles. Given that Mixed doubles is a separate Olympic event while Women's Doubles isn't, this is actually a good sign for her. As for the German Open, she's not sponsored by JTTA, but I'm 100% sure she's going to voluntarily participate. We just have to wait for ITTF to update Japan's player entries.

Also, just because you're not on the Asian Champs team doesn't mean you're not going to play the World Team Cup. If you use that logic, Ito also won't be playing the World Team Cup. Remember, the World Team Cup uses the Olympic System with doubles as the first match, which is Hayata's specialty. JTTA even benched Hirano for Hayata in all matches in last year's Team World Cup despite Hirano being clearly better than Hayata at that time. Given how Hayata has improved tremendously since the last Team World Cup in terms of singles ability, it's highly unlikely Hayata won't make the team of 5 players.

I've never heard of any news that Hayata and JTTA are having any disagreements, and I doubt they do. If that were the case, Mika Baba, the Head Coach of the Women's Team, wouldn't spend so much time coaching Hayata during the Qualification Rounds. To be honest, I don't think there's any beef here, and we just have patiently wait for the full entry list for the rest of the year's events. The real beef is with Chuang Chih Yuan and Taiwan's Table Tennis Association, which was really surprising and came out of nowhere.

Vlad Celler
09-03-2019, 01:23 PM
Very well written! ... Will hope!

Vlad Celler
09-04-2019, 09:46 AM
Harimoto-Hayata are declared XD in Sweden and Germany ....
Four events they are gaining ....
But will they be able to enter the TOP-8?
Good luck to them!

zeio
09-04-2019, 10:50 AM
It's more than making the top-8. Each association is allowed only 1 pair for the WTGF. Ito/Mizutani stands at 500pts right now. Harimoto/Hayata(163pts) will need to win in Sweden(200pts) and reach the final in Germany(150pts), or reach the SF in Sweden(50pts) and win in Germany(300pts) to stand a chance.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
09-04-2019, 12:44 PM
It's more than making the top-8. Each association is allowed only 1 pair for the WTGF. Ito/Mizutani stands at 500pts right now. Harimoto/Hayata(163pts) will need to win in Sweden(200pts) and reach the final in Germany(150pts), or reach the SF in Sweden(50pts) and win in Germany(300pts) to stand a chance.

Ito/Mizutani can also decline the invitation

Vlad Celler
09-04-2019, 01:26 PM
We remember that the first four following the results XD of the Grand Final receive permits in Tokyo 2020 ..
Ito and Mizutani have already guaranteed participation in Tokyo 2020 ...

zeio
09-04-2019, 02:00 PM
And then there's this footnote. Ishikawa's prospect of making the team is so grim if she doesn't make the singles. Not looking good for her.

https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/07/Tokyo_2020_XD_List_2.pdf

*Any qualified athletes in Mixed Doubles must be part of the team composision if their NOC has qualified a team of that gender.

zeio
09-04-2019, 02:03 PM
Ito/Mizutani can also decline the invitation

I wonder if the JNT will let that happen.

Jacky Kwok
09-04-2019, 04:01 PM
As the host nation, Japan automatically qualifies for all events (I mean table tennis events, to be specific).

So they don’t need to get the qualification from WTGF. JNT can send any mix double pair to Olympics if they want, as far as the team members are also the team event players.

zeio
09-04-2019, 04:33 PM
Only if the host country cannot qualify through the normal means.

http://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-05-14-Tokyo-2020-Qualification-system-Table-Tennis-eng.pdf

...
4 World Tour Grand Finals 2019 with a maximum of one (1) pair per NOC
Any qualified athletes in Mixed Doubles must be part of the team composition if their NOC has qualified a team of that gender

5 World Tour 2020 with a maximum of one (1) pair per NOC

1 If the Host Country has not qualified a Mixed Doubles pair through the steps above, it is guaranteed one (1) mixed doubles quota place with the athletes being part of the team quota.

Jacky Kwok
09-04-2019, 04:40 PM
This is the JNT internal qualification criteria for Tokyo 2020 (in Japanese):
http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/player/selection/2018/20180922_2020oiympic_tokyo.pdf

Point 3 is about mix double. I used Google translate to get the following:

3. One mixed male and female player
1.2. Among the three athletes of both male and female representative candidates, one pair of mixed doubles that seems to be the best pair will be determined by the headquarters and reported to the Board of Directors and recommended to the JOC. Japan is guaranteed entry for all events as a venue, and it is not necessary to qualify for qualifying. Therefore, the December 2019 ITTF World Tour Grand Final, which is expected to be a representative of mixed doubles 4th, is not a target event for selection of representative candidates for mixed doubles.
* Pairs that entered into BEST 4 are not represented by NOCs who belong to NF if they belong to NF.
It has been confirmed with ITTF that the affiliation NF and the affiliation NOC have final decision-making power.

Vlad Celler
09-04-2019, 04:47 PM
It would be interesting to see the match of Mizutani-Ito vs. Harimoto-Hayata ....:o

zeio
09-04-2019, 05:12 PM
https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/01/2019-WT-Standings-XD-CZE.pdf
2019 WT Standings for XD after Czech Open

Rank Pairing Country Events Points Criteria*
4 MIZUTANI Jun / ITO Mima JPN 4 500
13 HARIMOTO Tomokazu / HAYATA Hina JPN 2 163 NE
14 MORIZONO Masataka / ITO Mima JPN 1 150 NE
16 HARIMOTO Tomokazu / ISHIKAWA Kasumi JPN 4 139 NE
18 NIWA Koki / ITO Mima JPN 2 113 NE
51 YOSHIMURA Maharu / ISHIKAWA Kasumi JPN 1 13 NE

It's pretty obvious the selections will be b/w the 1st 2.

Best case scenario for Ishikawa is either WS and WT or just WT.

For Hayata, it's WT and XD.

For Ito, it could be WS, WT and XD, or WT and XD.

zeio
09-10-2019, 04:17 PM
Hilarious development and reaction of the JTTA on the cancellation of T2 China.

They filed a complaint to the ITTF, citing that "this betrays the trust of the players."

https://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20190830/tab19083016250001-n1.html

 日本卓球協会の星野一朗専務理事は30日、中国の海口で9月26~29日に行われる予定だった国際卓球連盟(ITTF)公認の賞金大会「T2ダイヤモンド」の第2戦が中止となったことを受け、29日にITTFに対して抗議の文書を送ったことを明らかにした。 T2ダイヤモンドは成績に応じて付与されるポイントが世界ランキングにボーナスとして加算される。来年の東京五輪の日本代表争いにも影響があるため、星野専務理事は開催まで1カ月の段階での中止決定に「選手の信頼を裏切ることになりかねない」と語った。

And then at the BoD meeting just a few days ago, they added that this would impact their Olympic selection process, but will not intervene.

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2019/09/07/0012679465.shtml

 今月26~29日に中国で開催予定だった国際卓球連盟(ITTF)公認の賞金大会「T2ダイヤモンド」第2戦が中止となったことを受け、日本協会の星野一朗専務理事は7日、都内で行われた日本協会の理事会後に取材に応じ、影響が懸念される東京五輪代表争いに「人為的に(ポイントを)調整することは考えてない」と救済策は設けないことを明かした。日本協会は既にITTFに抗議文を提出している。

Takkyu_wa_inochi
09-10-2019, 04:23 PM
How long before Hamamoto can play in WTTC or Olympics for Austria?

Jacky Kwok
09-10-2019, 04:35 PM
Not sure about WTTC. I heard 2028 the earliest for Olympics.

zeio
09-10-2019, 04:43 PM
She was 3 months away from turning 21 when she registered as an Austrian player. So 7 years from April, 2019 for both WTTC and Olympics under the new rule.

https://documents.ittf.sport/system/files?file=2018-07/201802123_EC_London_minutes.pdf

5.5 Eligibility update
The Executive Committee agreed that the eligibility rules in the ITTF competitions and Olympic Games should be aligned, to make our sport eligibility easier to understand for all the stakeholders. The Secretary General proposed that a reasonable compromise between the current World Championships and the current Olympic Eligibility regulations would be to propose a waiting period for the players over 21 years of age of 9 years after the date of registration. Mr Calin suggested that the IOC was more comfortable with this scenario of 9 years than the current ban for life. Players already eligible would keep their eligibility regardless of whether the proposition is adopted.

https://documents.ittf.sport/system/files?file=documents/20171214_EC_Astana_minutes.pdf

5.5. Eligibility update
The Secretary General reported on the meeting held on 7th December with Mr Jerome Poivey, Head of Institutional Relations and Governance of the IOC and Coralie McConnell, from the IOC Summer Sports Department. Mr Poivey explained that the ITTF is ultimately responsible to define the eligibility criteria for the Olympic Games. A recommendation based on experience, was made to ensure that ultimately the Executive Committee could have the capacity of making exceptions, whichever is the final rule to be adopted. The Executive Committee reacted positively to this information and there was a consensus on the EC that the eligibility rules in the ITTF competitions should be aligned, to make our sport eligibility easier to understand for the Media.

https://documents.ittf.sport/system/files?file=documents/20170923_EC_Halmstad_minutes.pdf

7.4. Eligibility cases
The EC noted that the Australian Table Tennis Association registered Mr Mateo Dvorani, a player not born in Australia but now an Australian citizen, on the special eligibility database for World Title events after he reached the age of 15. Table Tennis Australia did appeal to the ITTF eligibility commission against the 5-yearwaiting period for the player to represent Australia at World Title events.The EC also noted the request from the French Table Tennis Association to waive the requirements for World Title events eligibility for Ms Liu Judith, a French player born in China.

9-EC-20170923
The Executive Committee resolved that no exception could be made to the current eligibility rule.

At the same time, a discussion was held in regards to the fact that,currently, there are three different eligibility rules. One for Olympic Games, one for World Title events and a third one for international tournaments. The CEO stated that the ITTF should find the way to have a common eligibility regulation. The EC members agreed on the concept. It was agreed that it would be important to also explore what are the limitations in regards to the IOC eligibility rule.

10-EC-20170923
The Executive Committee resolved to instruct the Secretary General to contact the IOC to determine whether the eligibility rule for Table Tennis at the Olympic Games can be defined by ITTF and to explore ways to have a more unified eligibility rule.

Tempest/Comet
09-10-2019, 04:44 PM
Edit - deleted everything came out black/unreadable.:(

Vlad Celler
09-10-2019, 05:18 PM
Can Hayata rise above Shibata Saki in the October ITTF ranking?

pongfugrasshopper
09-10-2019, 05:38 PM
Can Hayata rise above Shibata Saki in the October ITTF ranking?
Only 180 points separate the two. Hina Hayata's current low is 600 so she needs to make at least runner up (worth 880 pts) in this tournament. If you look at the competition in Paraguay, I really think she can win this tournament.

Vlad Celler
09-10-2019, 06:04 PM
Shibata has a minimum eighth result of 680 ...She will participate in the Asian Championship ...But in my opinion, Hayat’s chances are higher .....

Happiness and good luck to her!:)

zeio
09-11-2019, 09:39 AM
Mizutani will don a new pair of sunglasses. He believes Niwa has a 50-60% chance winning the Paraguay Open. That'll put him in a difficult position as he isn't eligible for the World Cup. Still, he believes he can perform better than Niwa on the Tour if his eyes improve. The 2 are 555 pts apart as of this writing.

https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/201909110000051.html

現在、「新しいサングラスを作る段階」と言い、「自分に合うものになれば、自分は確実に数段強くなる」と言い切った。色味や形を調整している。今月が最後のチャンスと言い「それができなければお先真っ暗。良くならないと今と同じ結果が続く」と深刻に捉えている。
...
水谷は「丹羽は今、(ワールドツアーの)パラグアイに行っていて、50~60%の確率で優勝する。(自分が出られない)W杯も出るので、そう考えると自分は厳しい立場にある」と語った。

一方で、「正直、目さえ良くなれば、全然これからもワールドツアーで彼(丹羽)より良い成績を残せる自信がある」と断言。「この1カ月で自分の目を良くして昔みたいに良いプレーができる自分になって帰ってきたい。期待していて良いと思います」と覚悟を決めた。

Takkyu_wa_inochi
09-11-2019, 11:05 AM
Clearly his eyes are causing him problems alas

zeio
09-12-2019, 06:48 PM
Mizutani's eyes will pop out when he wakes up tomorrow.

NextLevel
09-12-2019, 07:17 PM
Mizutani's eyes will pop out when he wakes up tomorrow.

Hahahaha... Niwa needs that....

TeoTeoTeo
09-12-2019, 08:38 PM
Hahahaha... Niwa needs that....

Problem is, Niwa is shitting the bed himself so... lose to freitas like 2 times in a row and now to kai zhang..

zeio
09-13-2019, 06:26 AM
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/6254003207

张本:遇到生手我怎么赢
水鸟:年老体衰眼神不好我怎么赢
泥洼:我就不想赢

Harimoto: How do I win facing an unfamiliar opponent?
Mizutani: How do I win with my ailing body and poor eyesight?
Niwa: Yours truly just don't wanna win

This is his 6th and straight 1st round exit this year.

zeio
09-13-2019, 07:02 AM
http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1566746040/l50

635 名前:名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!! 2019/09/13(金) 15:33:04.98 ID:fjCo1R6g
予選を勝ち上がってないラッキールーザーに第一シードが負けたのはもしかしたら前例ないかもしれないね
It may be unprecedented that the first seed lost to the lucky loser who did not win in the qualifcation.

Guess what? History was made here, according to Ian Marshall.

https://www.ittf.com/2019/09/13/zhang-kai-rides-luck-causes-first-round-sensation/

Now Zhang Kai goes one step higher, since the inaugural tournament on the ITTF World Tour, the 1996 English Open, when the “Lucky Loser” concept was first introduced or at an ensuing ITTF Challenge Series event, he becomes the first “Lucky Loser” to beat the top seed in the opening round; something to tell his grandchildren.

Conversely for Koki Niwa he becomes the first top seed to lose in the opening round to a “Lucky Loser”, something not to tell his grandchildren!

Sali
09-13-2019, 07:22 AM
Clearly his eyes are causing him problems alas
Maybe yes maybe no. I do not see any relation if you are leading easily with Aruna and Franziska and then eyes problems comes to make you loose???

zeio
09-15-2019, 08:04 AM
https://i.imgur.com/OGF8VKO.png
https://i.imgur.com/IUT4mPC.png

Sali
09-15-2019, 09:05 AM
Just wondering how comes Koki got 330 points without beating anyone??? Just for participation, if yes very strange rules.

zeio
09-15-2019, 10:16 AM
After Paraguay Open, both the top 5 men and women happen to be those selected for WTTC 2019.

pongfugrasshopper
09-15-2019, 12:00 PM
It's interesting that Hina Hayata, winner of 4 Challenge/Plus events this year, would be ahead of Miyu Kato if you don't include the T2 points.

Vlad Celler
09-15-2019, 12:39 PM
It's interesting that Hina Hayata, winner of 4 Challenge/Plus events this year, would be ahead of Miyu Kato if you don't include the T2 points.

More precisely, three Challengers plus and one Challenger ...
But in Poland it will be difficult ......China decided to take this niche .....

Will it she announced in Canada?

Vlad Celler
09-17-2019, 09:20 AM
Ishikawa is lucky ....There are chances to win the R-32 at the Asian Championships...And this is at least 720 points ....Plus 540 per team ....
But to stand in the ITTF rating for October above Ito still does not work .....

zeio
09-17-2019, 09:45 AM
https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/09/World-Ranking-description-2019-25Mar-1.pdf

3.ITTF World Singles Rankings
...
3.6. Maximum one continental event counts out of the singles continental championships, team continental championships and continental cup for seniors.
...
3.9. Team match inclusion in singles ranking:
...
3.9.2. Continental senior team championships matches count separately from the individual points and with a maximum of 8 match wins.
3.9.2.1. Match wins at first stage (qualification stage) of the continental team championships are included in the maximum 8 wins to count.

The theoretical maximum she can get is 1440 pts(8*180 pts) in the team event but that's hardly possible, realistically 540-720 pts. She needs to finish 4th(1080 pts) in singles to raise her ranking points.