PDA

View Full Version : Japan Women's Race to Tokyo 2020 Singles



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8

Tempest/Comet
10-28-2019, 09:15 PM
We were planning to go, hoping that Hayata would sign on. Now that Ishikawa & Hirano and practically the entire JNT top echelon (sans Ito) will show up also, it makes the trip imperative :-)
The Race is down to the wire, as close as it can get (currently a mere 65 pts gap) and most exciting because of the incredibly goofy twists and turns last couple of months.
I have never seen Ishikawa in a Challenge series, but now the chips are down, her mom/manager and Rira Ishikawa (a graduate of JOC/EA and curently team captain of her University) are both going in support, attest to how seriously she’s taking it, even though the best either can do is a gain of 200 pts IF either wins (to replace a 900).
Without CNT, therefore no phobia, Ishikawa has advantage over Hirano, who can be mentally goofy (as admitted herself), and still suffered from regular ‘zombie attacks’.
Now if CNT throws a few monkey wrenches into the works, we may witness the fiercest all-out fight yet :-)
In N.America, it’s a rare treat to see any of the top 10 in action. In 2016 we drove our motorhome 4700Km to Philadelphia to see LSW & DN, disappointment turned into exhilaration as we witnessed Hirano taking down Ito right after her Rio Team Bronze, and a day later, saw Hirano’s finest moment.
Crossing the Rockies in the dead of winter in a 32ft motorhome may turn out to be a one-way trip, so we’re flying, despite peak season rates. We’re going to bring gifts too, boxes of Kleenex, for both the winner and loser, for their tears of joy and despair.
Can’t wait !!

Vlad Celler
10-29-2019, 03:02 PM
to
Tempest/Comet

I sincerely wish you both happiness and good luck !!!
(https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?60154-Tempest-Comet)

apacible
10-29-2019, 03:06 PM
We were planning to go, hoping that Hayata would sign on. Now that Ishikawa & Hirano and practically the entire JNT top echelon (sans Ito) will show up also, it makes the trip imperative :-)
The Race is down to the wire, as close as it can get (currently a mere 65 pts gap) and most exciting because of the incredibly goofy twists and turns last couple of months.
I have never seen Ishikawa in a Challenge series, but now the chips are down, her mom/manager and Rira Ishikawa (a graduate of JOC/EA and curently team captain of her University) are both going in support, attest to how seriously she’s taking it, even though the best either can do is a gain of 200 pts IF either wins (to replace a 900).
Without CNT, therefore no phobia, Ishikawa has advantage over Hirano, who can be mentally goofy (as admitted herself), and still suffered from regular ‘zombie attacks’.
Now if CNT throws a few monkey wrenches into the works, we may witness the fiercest all-out fight yet :-)
In N.America, it’s a rare treat to see any of the top 10 in action. In 2016 we drove our motorhome 4700Km to Philadelphia to see LSW & DN, disappointment turned into exhilaration as we witnessed Hirano taking down Ito right after her Rio Team Bronze, and a day later, saw Hirano’s finest moment.
Crossing the Rockies in the dead of winter in a 32ft motorhome may turn out to be a one-way trip, so we’re flying, despite peak season rates. We’re going to bring gifts too, boxes of Kleenex, for both the winner and loser, for their tears of joy and despair.
Can’t wait !!

If the CNT sends players, even team B players, there's a good chance Ishikawa and Hirano withdraw their participation since there would literally be no margin for error for both. Either Ishikawa or Hirano can only gain points by winning the whole tournament, and if the CNT come, they may decide it would be better to keep themselves rested and not jet lagged for the WTGF rather than try to win the North American Open for such a small gain in points. It's also possible for either to withdraw if one performs well in the Austrian Open or T2 Diamond, which would make it less necessary to go to Canada for this challenge plus series tournament.

For your sake though, I do hope you get to experience watching as many JNT members in person as possible since it's really rare to have the top Asian Players travel to North America.

Tempest/Comet
10-30-2019, 02:47 AM
BTW, as per JTTA list, JNT is not sending any player, those going to Markham are ALL going on their own expense.

Tempest/Comet
10-30-2019, 02:58 AM
After seeing Niwa’s zombie-like performance in Paraguay, I think Apacible has a very valid point, that of jet-lag and the return journey travelling toll that would tire out anyone. To that add the Canadian cold climate, and the flu season. If CNT sends anyone, it’s not worth the wear and tear a week before the WTGF which has more pts potential.
Still, a tournament sans Chinese dominance is refreshingly enticing.
Will see...

zeio
10-30-2019, 09:00 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e-3rASsSL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFTZn2hyqz8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mi4E0FG2ek

Vlad Celler
10-30-2019, 01:00 PM
By the way, Ishikawa will certainly lose points in the next tournament, in T.W.C. ....Her last year’s result is 1,500 points ...And this result is among the eight largest when calculating the monthly ITTF rating ....
This year, she certainly can’t get so much .....Because a maximum of two games in one match, and Ishikawa will have one of them paired with Hirano ......Pair game does not give points ....In addition, the new ITTF ranking system reduced the number of points for victory - 250 instead of the previous 300 ...
Most likely, last year's 1,500 points will be replaced by 900 from the reserve ....
Not the best start in the Ishikawa-Hirano race for the rating of January 2020 ....

Takkyu_wa_inochi
10-30-2019, 01:41 PM
ITO is a winner !

zeio
10-30-2019, 05:04 PM
It's embarrassing to see my idol in this mess, after starting off with such a huge surplus from 2018. It's October already and her ranking points are still made up of 5 events from 2018, 1 of which is the TWC.

Ito: 4
Ishikawa: 5
Hirano: 4
Sato: 2
Kato: 1
Hayata: 2
Shibata: 4
Hashimoto: 3

Vlad Celler
10-30-2019, 05:26 PM
ITO is a winner !

But Ito could theoretically improve his points after TWC .... If she can score six wins, it's 1500 points ......Hirano according to the results of the TWC is unlikely to be able to add .....

Vlad Celler
10-31-2019, 03:48 PM
Belarus

http://results.ittf.bornan.net/ittf-web-results/html/TTE5026/results.html#/knock-outs

Hina Hayata - a meeting with Chinese women in R-32 and, if it goes further, in R-16 ....:(

Tempest/Comet
10-31-2019, 10:53 PM
20037
such spirit...keep at it Mima !

Tempest/Comet
11-01-2019, 01:51 AM
https://youtu.be/IO_YB5s55QU
"...ouch, that really hurts :-)"
Hayata's double chin serve changed direction of spin :D

zeio
11-01-2019, 12:18 PM
Kasumin Gyudon, available at the upcoming TWC.

https://hochi.news/images/2019/10/30/20191030-OHT1I50134-L.jpg

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-01-2019, 01:03 PM
Kasumin Gyudon, available at the upcoming TWC.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fhochi.news%2Fimages%2F2019%2F10%2F30%2F20191030-OHT1I50134-L.jpg


it can't be worse than YOSHINOYA

Vlad Celler
11-01-2019, 01:18 PM
JTTA today updated information on TWC....
Unfortunately, there are still four participants , the fourth is Sato Hitomi ....Hina Hayata no, alas ....:(

zeio
11-01-2019, 04:44 PM
https://hochi.news/articles/20191019-OHT1T50109.html

片道100時間かけてでも…五輪の可能性ある限り早田ひなは戦う
2019年10月19日 11時0分スポーツ報知
 卓球の20年東京五輪代表争いが終盤戦を迎えた。4月の世界選手権個人戦女子ダブルスで銀メダルに輝いた早田ひな(19)=日本生命=は苦しい立場にいる。直近のドイツ・オープン(OP)終了時点で、26位の世界ランクも五輪代表選考ポイントも6番手。厳しい状況に追い込まれているが、可能性を信じて世界を飛び回っている。

 選考レースも残り3か月となった9月中旬。早田は日本から約1万8000キロ離れたパラグアイにいた。今年から新設された国際大会「チャレンジプラス」パラグアイOPに参加するためだったが、その道のりは困難を極めた。直前までTリーグの試合に出場していた甲府から、電車で成田空港に向かったものの、台風15号の影響で交通機関は大きく乱れていた。東京駅からタクシーに飛び乗ったが、通行止めなどで到着まで11時間を要し、その間に予定していたフライトも欠航となっていた。

 この時点で、初戦に間に合うかも分からない状況だった。コンディションを考えればキャンセルするのも戦略の一つだろう。チャレンジプラスは優勝で獲得できる世界ランキングのポイントが1100。ワールドツアーで最も格付けの高いプラチナで4強、2番目のレギュラーで8強に相当する。大きなポイントではあるが、移動の負担やアジア選手権と日程がほぼ重なっていたことから、女子の上位5選手はエントリーしていなかった。

 だが、棄権は一切考えなかった。「行って間に合わなかったら仕方ない。できることは最善を尽くしてやろうと思った」。早田の思いに応えようと、石田大輔コーチら周囲も航空券や宿泊の手配に奔走した。到着したのは当初の予定よりも2日半遅れとなった試合前日の午後。甲府を出発してから、実に100時間近くが経過していた。それでも試合に間に合ったのは、周囲のサポートのおかげだった。

 時差やコンディション調整にあてる時間もなかったが、結果は見事に優勝を飾った。「これからもそういった状況があるかもしれない。環境が変わっても、いつも通りのパフォーマンスができるのが強い選手。それはアスリートとして大事なこと」。そうした意地とともに、疲労困憊(こんぱい)の体を突き動かしたのは感謝の思いだ。「本当にたくさんの方に助けてもらって、パラグアイに行くことができた。しっかり優勝して帰って来ることができて良かった」と振り返る。

 卓球の世界ランクは直近1年間の上位8大会の成績を基に決まる。1つの優勝で、大きく状況が変わるわけではない。帰路も1日半をかけて日本に戻ったが、早田は息つく暇もなく、わずか数日でドイツに向かった。その後に控えるワールドツアーのスウェーデンOP、ドイツOPへの時差調整と練習のため、ドイツのナショナルチームの練習に5日間参加した。

 万全の準備で臨んだ2大会はともに予選を勝ち上がったものの、本戦1回戦でスウェーデンは世界ランク9位の平野美宇(日本生命)、ドイツは13位で日本人選手に今季無敗の陳幸同(中国)と格上にフルゲームで競り負けた。「バランスのいい卓球ができるようになってきている」。内容は紙一重だと感じたが、代表選考が懸かる今は何よりも結果が欲しい時期だった。

 世界最強の中国選手とも互角に渡り合えるパワーを備え、実際に今年は2月のポルトガルOPで世界女王の劉詩ブン(中国)を破るなど、対中国選手に6勝5敗で勝ち越している。誰もが認める爆発力を秘めながら、結果が出ないことへのもどかしさ、そしてその要因も痛感している。

 「世界ランクが上の選手と対戦した時に(ゲームカウント)3―3の最後、勝ちきる力がまだ足りない。そこが私が世界ランク上位にいけない理由でもあると思うので、そこをしっかり勝ちきることがすごく大事になる。我慢だったり、あとちょっとのところがもやもやしてるかなって感じです。殻を破るまで、あと少しだと思うんですけど…」

 今年3月の世界選手権日本代表最終選考会。加藤美優(日本ペイントホールディングス)との準決勝の最終ゲーム、10―5とマッチポイントを握りながら逆転負けを喫した。シングルスでの代表入りを逃したことは、選考レースに大きく影響した。この2大会でも「あと1点」「あと一歩」に涙をのんだが、闘志は消えていない。

 大会後、ドイツからすぐにポーランドに飛んだ。チャレンジプラスよりも格付けの低いチャレンジ大会に出場し、今月末には同じ格付けのセルビアOPにもエントリーした。経験と成長を求めると同時に、優勝でも850ポイントと獲得ポイントは高くはないが、現在の世界ランクの底上げにはつながる。

 東京五輪のシングルス代表は20年1月の世界ランク上位2人が内定する。該当するポイントは伊藤、平野、石川佳純(全農)の3人が大きく抜け出している状況だ。団体戦要員の3人目は代表2人とのダブルスの相性などを考慮して強化本部で推薦されるが、五輪の団体戦のシード順に影響するシングルスの世界ランクで上位にいることは欠かせない条件となる。

 「この2大会もシングルスで1回戦負け。五輪は本当に厳しい。可能性は結構なくなってきてはいるんですけど、たくさんの方にサポートしていただいて、応援してもらっている。それに向けて、どんな結果であっても最後までしっかり頑張ろうと思ってます」

 早田は伊藤とのペアで17年世界選手権銅、19年銀メダルなどダブルスに定評があるが、シングルスの世界ランクは10月時点で26位だ。11月のW杯団体戦は代表を外れ、ポイントがボーナスで上積みできるT2ダイヤモンドの出場権も逃した。現状の立ち位置は極めて厳しいことは自覚しているが、諦めるつもりはない。片道100時間をかけてたどり着いたパラグアイで再確認した「感謝」と「諦めない心」を胸に19歳は最後まで戦い続ける。(五輪卓球担当・林 直史)
Hina Hayata Fights as Long as the Possibility of Olympics Is There...Even If It Takes 100 Hours One Way

The table tennis race for Tokyo 2020 is coming to the final stage. Hina Hayata (19), who won the silver medal in WD at the WTTC in April, is in a difficult position. After the recently concluded German Open, she is ranked 26th in the world and 6th in terms of selection points. Despite being driven into a difficult situation, she is flying around the world still believing in the possibility.

It was mid-September, with 3 months left of the selection race. Hayata was in Paraguay, about 18,000 kilometers away from Japan. This was to participate in the newly established international tournament “Challenge Plus” Paraguay Open, but the path was extremely difficult. From Kofu, where she had played in T-League games just before, she headed to Narita Airport by train, which was greatly disturbed by the influence of Typhoon # 15. She jumped on a taxi from Tokyo Station, but it took 11 hours to arrive due to traffic closure, etc., and the scheduled flight was canceled.

At this point, she wasn't sure if she could make it in time for the first match. If you think about the condition, it may make strategic sense to cancel. Challenge Plus has 1100 points in the world ranking that can be earned by winning, comparable to the [quarterfinal] of the highest-tier World Tour Platinum, or the [semifinal] of the World Tour. Despite the big points, the top 5 women's players did not enter because the schedule almost overlapped with the ATTC.

However, she did not consider withdrawing. “If you don’t get there in time, you can't help it. I wanted to do everything within my power." Daisuke Ishida and other coaches tried to arrange flight tickets and accommodations to meet Hayata's wishes. She arrived in the afternoon of the day before the match, 2 and a half days later than originally scheduled. Nearly 100 hours have passed since she left Kofu. Still, it was thanks to the support of the people around that she made it in time for the match.

Although there was no time to adjust for the time difference and condition, the result was a great victory. "There may be such a situation in the future. Even if the environment changes, a strong player can perform as usual. That is important as an athlete." With this willpower, I feel grateful to have moved my fatigued body. “I was able to go to Paraguay with the help of a lot of people."

The world ranking of table tennis is determined based on the top 8 results of the tournaments over the past year. A win won't change the situation. Taking over a day and a half to return to Japan, Hayata had no time to catch a breath and headed for Germany after just a few days. After that, she participated in the practice of the German national team for 5 days to adjust for the time difference for the Swedish Open and German Open.

Although winning both qualifications of the 2 tournaments that she fully prepared for, she lost in the first round of main draw in Sweden to Miu Hirano (Nippon Life), who is ranked 9th in the world and CXT (China), who is unbeaten against Japanese players this season, after a 7-gamer. “Balanced table tennis is now possible.” I felt that the content was a single piece of paper, but now it was time to get results more than anything else, as the selection of representatives took place.

With the power to cross swords with the world's strongest Chinese players, in fact, she defeated World Champion LSW (China) at the Portugal Open in February this year, with 6 wins and 5 losses against Chinese players. While having the explosive power that everyone recognizes, the frustration of not producing results and the cause pain her.

“When I play against a player with a higher world ranking, the power to win at the end of 3-3(game count) is still not enough. I think that's why I can't get higher in the world, so it's very important to win well. I feel as if I'm patient, or a little bit hungry. I think it's a little more until I break the shell..."

At the final selection trial for the WTTC in March this year, in the final game of the semi-final with Miyu Kato (Nippon Paint Holdings), she lost the match while holding match point at 10-5. Missing out on the singles greatly affected the selection race. In these 2 tournaments, she still shed tears on "1 more point" and "1 more step", but the fighting spirit has not disappeared.

After the tournament, she flew to Poland from Germany immediately to participate in a Challenge tournament with a lower rating than the Challenge Plus. Seeking experience and growth at the same time, the 850 points for winning are not as high, but they will lead to raising the current world ranking.

The singles representatives of the Tokyo Olympics will be decided by the top 2 world ranked players in January, 2020. Given the points now, they will emerge among the 3 people as Ito, Hirano, and Ishikawa (Zennoh). The third player for team is recommended by the headquarters in consideration of the compatibility in doubles with the 2 representatives, but it is indispensable to be ranked higher in the world ranking as it affects the seeding of the team event.

“I lost in the first round of main draw in the singles of these 2 tournaments. The Olympics are really tough. The possibilities are pretty much gone, but I have the support of many people. Regardless of the result, I will do my best until the very end."

Hayata has a reputation for doubles such as the bronze for WTTC 2017 and silver for 2019 pairing with Ito, but her singles world ranking is 26th as of October. In November, the Team World Cup is out of her reach and she missed the eligibility to play T2 diamonds, where points can be added as bonuses. Aware that her current position is extremely difficult, she does not intend to give up. The 19-year-old continues to fight to the end with "gratitude" and "never give up", reinforced after Paraguay, which takes 100 hours one way. (In charge of Olympic table tennis, Naofumi Hayashi)

Vlad Celler
11-01-2019, 05:47 PM
Thank you, Zeyo ... Hina Hayata announced this interview on Facebook yesterday .... I did not manage to find him today .... Thank you!

Vlad Celler
11-01-2019, 07:42 PM
Happiness and good luck tomorrow Hina Hayata ....You can !

zeio
11-02-2019, 11:14 AM
Belarus Open
Hayata vs Shi Xunyao
0:3, 7:3, 7:4, 9:4, 9:11. Roller-coaster ride. TF?

It appears Hayata doesn't rely as much on overpowering but more on placement here. She has a new serve motion that doesn't seem to work.

1:3, 7:3, 7:6, 8:6, 8:8, 11:8.

Ishida is getting more vocal here.

Hayata has adjusted her stance again.

https://i.imgur.com/luA8xSA.jpg

1:3, 3:3, 3:5, 5:5, 7:7, 8:8, 11:8.

SXY has trouble keeping up with Hayata's speed. Either player loses tons of points on service. LOL.

2:2, 5:2, 5:5, 6:6, 7:6, 11:6,

Hayata gets the upper hand in rallies. Shi Xunyao opts for BH serve. Either player still loses tons of points when serving. Both players are off here.

2:2, 4:2, TO for SXY, 10:2, 10:5, TO for Hayata, 10:6, 11:6.

Hayata has cut down on her misses by holding back. Good yet not good.

Vlad Celler
11-02-2019, 11:54 AM
zeio:


.....Good yet not good. ...

Oh,yes.....

Nevertheless, we wish her happiness and good luck ....

zeio
11-03-2019, 02:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URCMJSF6SNk

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 08:23 AM
I have a feeling that Hina Hayata has a slight injury .... Leg .... Maybe I'm wrong ....

zeio
11-03-2019, 08:24 AM
Both Hayata and Hashimoto look tired.

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 08:30 AM
I agree with you.....:(

zeio
11-03-2019, 12:24 PM
Hayata vs FSQ
6:6, 6:10, 8:11. Hayata missed many popups on her serves.
2:2, 2:4, 3:4, 3:5, 4:5, 4:6, 6:6, 6:8, 7:8, 7:9, 9:9, 11:9, Hayata stepped up on her service just in time. FSQ played passive in the endgame.
4:1, 4:4, 5:4, 5:5, 6:5, 6:6, 7:6, many FH winners from Hayata, 8:6, 8:8, 10:8, Hayata on top of rallies, 11:8.
3:1, FSQ has trouble receiving Hayata's hook serve, 5:1, 5:3, 9:3, 9:5, 11:5. FSQ can't keep up in rallies.
1:3, 3:3, 3:5, 5:5, Hayata keeps switching her serves, 5:7, 6:7, FSQ is eating so many serves, 6:8, 7:8, 7:9, 7:11.
3:1, 3:3, 4:3, 4:4, 6:4, TO for FSQ, 6:6, 7:6, 7:7, 7:8, 8:8, 9:8, 9:9, TO for Hayata, 9:10, 10:10, 10:11, FSQ's tomahawk serve, 11:11, Hayata's hook serve, 12:11, Hayata dribbled FSQ's tomahawk, 13:11.

5th title to Hayata's name in 2019!

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 12:56 PM
Perhaps the key game ..... If the seventh will be, I do not know ....:(

Timeout ... Only luck is needed here ...

zeio
11-03-2019, 01:07 PM
Very close indeed. The odds would've been against Hayata.

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 01:09 PM
Very close indeed. The odds would've been against Hayata.

5th title to Hayata's name in 2019!


Congratulations !!!!

apacible
11-03-2019, 01:17 PM
From the Team World Cup Prospectus:

"Change of the composition of a team may be accepted if notified by arepresentative of the nominating Association to the Competition Manager, up tothe time of 4 November 12:00 (local time); no further changes will be acceptedafter this deadline."

Come on JTTA, you still have time to add Hayata as the 5th team member!

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 01:40 PM
From the Team World Cup Prospectus:

"Change of the composition of a team may be accepted if notified by arepresentative of the nominating Association to the Competition Manager, up tothe time of 4 November 12:00 (local time); no further changes will be acceptedafter this deadline."

Come on JTTA, you still have time to add Hayata as the 5th team member!

Why don’t they want to add Hayata?What other proof is needed that she is at least not inferior to Ishikawa?
Although yes .... In recent months, couples practiced only Ishikawa-Hirano ......
Mistake, obvious mistake of the JTTA leadership, my opinion .....

zeio
11-03-2019, 02:31 PM
https://i.imgur.com/OjIyfXA.png
https://i.imgur.com/lv1atrr.png

zeio
11-03-2019, 04:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVG4KpQRpA99jZk2hHZT9-Q/community?lb=UgyXX0W_BtfpaEiBDSZ4AaABCQ.90sPVFHWMpm90sRPPI0hTP

よしぱぱドライブ
2 hours ago
オリンピック選考レースも実質終了で、早田はある意味でノープレッシャーでの優勝かな~~?
早田、運、タイミング悪いっていうか? 悲劇のヒロイン的な感じが拭いきれない、そのはかなさも魅力なんだけどね。
Yoshipapa Drive
2 hours ago
The Olympic selection race has effectively ended, and Hayata won under no pressure in a sense.
Hayata, fate, bad timing? The feeling of tragic heroine cannot be wiped away, but its fascination is also attractive.

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 05:15 PM
Thank,Zeio !!!

apacible
11-03-2019, 07:22 PM
The third player for team is recommended by the headquarters in consideration of the compatibility in doubles with the 2 representatives, but it is indispensable to be ranked higher in the world ranking as it affects the seeding of the team event.



For the Japanese Women's Race, the WR of the 3rd Olympic player isn't actually that important for team seeding. Japan's main goal is to stay the 2nd seed to be drawn in the opposite half of China. However, even if the 3rd player was WR 699 in the world, Japan would still be the 2nd seed as long as Ito remains the highest ranked non-Chinese player and there aren't two players from the same country that have a higher WR than the 2nd Olympic player (either Hirano or Ishikawa). I do not see any other country (HK, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan) having TWO (2) players ranked higher than either Hirano or Ishikawa in time for the Olympics. Japan could even send Miwa Harimoto with zero WR points as the 3rd team member, but as long as the two singles players of Japan are determined by highest WR, Japan should be seeded second.

If a miracle happens and another country manages to get two players to have a higher WR than Ishikawa or Hirano, in time for the Olympics, Japan would still be seeded 2nd as long as the 3rd player has a higher WR than the 3rd player of that country. Right now, the 3rd players of other countries are generally ranked in the 30s to 50s at the highest. Japan currently has 8 players all ranked higher than another country's 3rd player, so it is virtually impossible for Japan not to be seeded 2nd if it selects anyone among Japan's top 8 players as the 3rd player.

If JTTA doesn't select Hayata for the Olympics, it won't be because her WR isn't good enough for the team's seeding, but will likely be for other factors. The fact that Maharu Yoshimura, Japan's No. 6 player on the men's side is being considered over Niwa for Olympics (based on the TWC commercials) despite having an even lower WR than Hayata gives us hope that JTTA isn't going to base the 3rd Olympic spot solely on WR.

Still, any gain in WR points will make it easier for JTTA to choose you. There was an article reposted by TV Tokyo where a survey was done for Japanese fans' favorite female athletes across all sports. Ishikawa was 5th, Hirano was 8th and Ito was 9th, so if any of these were replaced by Hayata, backlash from the public is to be expected since Hayata isn't as popular as those 3 yet. Majority of the people simply look at WR without going beyond what has led to such a WR like seeding, luck of the draw and limited number of participants per country in major ITTF events. It would be easier for JTTA to justify its decision and soften the backlash if Hayata's WR was in the 20s as opposed to the 50s.

This year's WR race has been a roller-coaster ride. We've gone from Ito being in danger of losing out on the singles race to her virtually securing her singles spot by performing well in October. Hirano and Ishikawa's early exits in the last two tournaments have cast some doubts on their preparedness for the Olympics and has opened the door for others to possible challenge for the 3rd Olympic spot. Lastly, we may see an unprecedented amount of high ranking Japanese players enter in the North American Open due to the intensity and competitiveness of the Olympic race. These last two months are going to be a lot of fun, and I'm bracing myself for a wild ride.

zeio
11-03-2019, 07:29 PM
http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1571478399/l50

484名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/11/03(日) 22:13:59.71ID:EVUygyrs>>491
ノースアメリカンOPも楽しみだ
石川フルボッコして早田優勝してほしい
I'm looking forward to the North American Open
I want Ishikawa beaten to a pulp and Hayata to win

zeio
11-03-2019, 08:01 PM
After a quick look, it looks like the 3rd player will play a greater role this time due to the format change.

Because of how the doubles is counted, Hong Kong is currently ranked higher than Taipei instead in the Olympic ranking, despite the top 2 players of the former being lowered ranked than their counterparts, respectively. Same deal for South Korea and Singapore, as well as Austria and Romania.



https://i.imgur.com/ElhJRdW.png

Notes:
1. The Olympic Team Ranking is based on the ranking points of the three (3) highest Olympic ranked athletes. The calculation method is based on the World Team Ranking principles, with the only difference that the simulation of the matches is based on the Olympic match system (BC vs YZ, A vs X, C vs Z, A vs Y, B vs X). Doubles match winner is determined comparing the sum of the singles ranking points of each of the pairs.

2. The Olympic Ranking will be used for ranking, as well as for seeding (July 2020), for the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.

3. The Olympic Ranking Lists are up to date with all eligible athletes, pairs and teams at the time and do not have a limit based on the maximum quota per event, until the full lists of qualified athletes, pairs and teams are confirmed.

4. Possible exceptions as might be considered and confirmed by the IOC, leading up to the qualification for the Olympic Games, will appear on the Olympic Rankings.

https://i.imgur.com/x5HkDHF.png

https://i.imgur.com/3bKMPbj.png

https://i.imgur.com/VLpVz6p.png

Vlad Celler
11-03-2019, 08:18 PM
As always, an amazing analysis of the current situation from apacible (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?68630-apacible) !
apacible :) (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?68630-apacible)

zeio
11-03-2019, 08:53 PM
Hayata will lose a substantial amount of points in the first half of next year(2x 1100 in Feb and Mar, then 850 in May). Given all this, I feel that the JNT will pick Hirano/Ishikawa over Hayata for safety on 2020/1/6.

https://i.imgur.com/QaBTMvo.png

Tempest/Comet
11-03-2019, 11:52 PM
20044
“Thank you for all your support. This tournament was a triumph for myself, in endurance both mentally & physically. Even though there were anxieties and apprehension, I was able to concentrate on believing in myself, and winning in the end. I still have a lot of challenges ahead, but allow me to show you the results day by day for your support.”

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 04:16 AM
20044
“Thank you for all your support. This tournament was a triumph for myself, in endurance both mentally & physically. Even though there were anxieties and apprehension, I was able to concentrate on believing in myself, and winning in the end. I still have a lot of challenges ahead, but allow me to show you the results day by day for your support.”

Markham! You can !
(China, as usual, is pulling time until the last moment .... I wait with fear ...)

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 04:22 AM
Hayata will lose a substantial amount of points in the first half of next year(2x 1100 in Feb and Mar, then 850 in May). Given all this, I feel that the JNT will pick Hirano/Ishikawa over Hayata for safety on 2020/1/6.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHJfZWiQ.png

Unfortunately, Hina Hayata will have noticeable deductions in the December ranking of this year ....If in November she will retain its position, then in December it will fall .....Kato Miyu will also fall in December, but still Kato Miyu will most likely be higher in the ranking than Hayata .....

Janard
11-04-2019, 07:14 AM
Unfortunately, Hina Hayata will have noticeable deductions in the December ranking of this year ....If in November she will retain its position, then in December it will fall .....Kato Miyu will also fall in December, but still Kato Miyu will most likely be higher in the ranking than Hayata .....

Kato seems like the most ill-fated person on the women's team – the one who will never be picked no matter what she does.

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 07:35 AM
Kato seems like the most ill-fated person on the women's team – the one who will never be picked no matter what she does.

Brilliantly! And funny and sad ......

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 08:06 AM
This time ITTF is punctual ...As promised ... A minute per minute ....
November rating .....

https://results.ittf.link/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=list&listid=70&Itemid=207


(https://results.ittf.link/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=list&listid=70&Itemid=207)Clarification-the results of the Belarus Challenger are not included in this rating ....

Janard
11-04-2019, 10:22 AM
This time ITTF is punctual ...As promised ... A minute per minute ....
November rating .....

https://results.ittf.link/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=list&listid=70&Itemid=207


(https://results.ittf.link/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=list&listid=70&Itemid=207)Clarification-the results of the Belarus Challenger are not included in this rating ....

The November rankings prove that T2 makes such a whole world of difference. ZYL, WMY and DN are basically clinging onto their positions as 1st, 2nd and 3rd in Malaysia to maintain their top 6 positions.

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 10:42 AM
I completely agree with you ... Most likely, D.N. still remain nr.6 ....

apacible
11-04-2019, 01:09 PM
After a quick look, it looks like the 3rd player will play a greater role this time due to the format change.

Because of how the doubles is counted, Hong Kong is currently ranked higher than Taipei instead in the Olympic ranking, despite the top 2 players of the former being lowered ranked than their counterparts, respectively. Same deal for South Korea and Singapore, as well as Austria and Romania.


Thank you Zeio for pointing this out! This will definitely affect calculations to some extent and does make gaining WR points in these last few tournaments of the year more important for Hayata. Despite the different calculation for Olympic Team Seeding, it still seems highly unlikely for Japan to fall out of the 2nd seed even if they send Hayata.

For Japan to lose the 2nd seed all these 3 conditions must happen at the same time:
1. Another country must have a player ranked higher than either Hirano or Ishikawa. This is the most realistic condition, but only a few countries have some shot of achieving this. (HK, Taiwan, Singapore and Korea.)

2. Hayata must be ranked lower than that other country's 3rd player. Zeio brought up a good point that Hayata is in danger of losing points by July 2020 since her WR points from her major wins in Portugal, Oman and Serbia will expire by then. However, it's extremely unlikely Hayata won't be able to make up for those points in the last few tournaments this year and first few next year.

In fact, Hayata's effective WR point total for July 2020 is currently at 5390 points. (It's still 4880 in Zeio's spreadsheet on post #789 since he didn't update the Belarus Open points yet. Also, for Ito fans looking at the spreadsheet and seeing that she's 1000 points behind Ishikawa in the July 2020 WR race, don't be alarmed since Ito only has 6 events while Ishikawa has 8.)


This means that even if Hayata doesn't play any more tournaments until the Olympics in 2020, the lowest WR point total she can have for the Olympics is 5390. This is still currently higher than the point totals of Taiwan's, Singapore's and Korea's 3rd best player. Hayata was able to achieve more WR points in 4 months of tournaments than another country's 3rd best player is one year of tournaments.


3. The combined WR points of Hayata and the 2nd player of Japan (either Hirano or Ishikawa) must be lower than the combined WR points of the 2nd and 3rd best player of that other country. Currently, we can estimate that either Hirano or Ishikawa will have around 10,000 WR points since they're really much higher ranked than any other country's 2nd best player. Combine that with Hayata's minimum of 5390 WR points for a total of 15390 points. That's still 2000+ points greater than next highest combinations of HK with 13000 points and Taiwan with 12000 points.

Achieving one of these conditions is hard enough and achieving all three conditions at the same time is nearly impossible. It still appears that Japan's seeding is safe even with the new team ranking calculation method for the Olympics. However, I'm definitely retracting my statement that Japan would still be seeded 2nd even if they sent Miwa Harimoto as the third player. Haha.

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 01:57 PM
Thanks a lot, Apacible .....

(By the way, China made its move to Markham ..... 12 players, the so-called third team ...And although formally Hina Hayata seeding nr. 5, in any case, the struggle will be very difficult .....)

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-04-2019, 03:19 PM
Shibata was the champion of Challenger tournaments last year but she didn't encounter Chinese opposition if I'm correct. Hayata's performance is much more laudable

karupinkun
11-04-2019, 03:33 PM
How is the situation with a reserve player? I dont have knowledge about the rules, but there has to be a replacement ready, if one of the main olympic players get "injured". Could JNT use advantage of this? They could see if Ishikawa gets back in form, or if Hayata´s performance skyrock and adjust the third teammember just before the olympic tournament?

I know JNT will never do something like this, but this could help JNT to chose the best player in form and not just months ahead.

Vlad Celler
11-04-2019, 04:10 PM
How is the situation with a reserve player? I dont have knowledge about the rules, but there has to be a replacement ready, if one of the main olympic players get "injured". Could JNT use advantage of this? They could see if Ishikawa gets back in form, or if Hayata´s performance skyrock and adjust the third teammember just before the olympic tournament?

I know JNT will never do something like this, but this could help JNT to chose the best player in form and not just months ahead.

I am afraid that the JNT leadership does not yet have a clear answer to this question .....

zeio
11-04-2019, 04:24 PM
More TWC promo with a new analysis of the team lineups by Sayaka Hirano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIY2wksvMuk

zeio
11-04-2019, 05:29 PM
Shibata was the champion of Challenger tournaments last year but she didn't encounter Chinese opposition if I'm correct. Hayata's performance is much more laudable

Took a quick look. China didn't send anyone until the Thailand Open in May, in which LSW took part. Other than that, China sent only players from provincial teams. Shibata won like 4 times beating Hashimoto, Sato, Samara and Mikhailova in the finals. Kato won 1 time beating Mori. Hashimoto reached the final 3 times, losing to Yang Haeun, LSW and Shibata.

https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1571478399/527-n

549名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/11/04(月) 07:29:22.58ID:RtuowS4Z
今知ったが早田また優勝したんだな
「チャレンジ女王」の称号も佐藤→芝田→早田へと受け継がれてってるが
次のチャレンジ女王候補は誰になるのだろう
長崎とか小塩辺りだろうか?
Just found out Hayata won again.
The title "Queen of Challenge" has been inherited from Sato -> Shibata -> Hayata
Who will be the next successor?
Nagasaki or Ojio?

zeio
11-04-2019, 05:47 PM
How is the situation with a reserve player? I dont have knowledge about the rules, but there has to be a replacement ready, if one of the main olympic players get "injured". Could JNT use advantage of this? They could see if Ishikawa gets back in form, or if Hayata´s performance skyrock and adjust the third teammember just before the olympic tournament?

I know JNT will never do something like this, but this could help JNT to chose the best player in form and not just months ahead.

Hirano was the reserve player for Rio, when she was 4th JNT player on the world ranking list 9/2015. Hayata might get that treatment this time around.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODYPLQpbkkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2adAY8h01k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj_yj6ztkM8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhT9H3m2gBw

NextLevel
11-05-2019, 02:13 AM
Hirano was the reserve player for Rio, when she was 4th JNT player on the world ranking list 9/2015. Hayata might get that treatment this time around.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODYPLQpbkkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2adAY8h01k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj_yj6ztkM8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhT9H3m2gBw

She has to overtake Sato and Kato to merit it.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 03:21 AM
NextLevel


She has to overtake Sato and Kato to merit it.

Oh Yes....

And not only to come forward, but also to maintain an advantage by the middle of 2020 ...
(https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?21501-NextLevel)

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 06:04 AM
T.W.C.
Group compositions published ...
It must be assumed that the results of TWC-2018 will be replaced by current results ...
For the Japanese women's team, this means:

Hina Hayata will lose 600 points from the reserve .....
(It’s a pity ... the moment for Hayata is rather complicated ..)

It will be very interesting to follow Ishikawa .....Her last year’s result is 1,500 points ....I’m very unsure that this year she will be able to get at least 1000 ...Therefore, a loss is possible .....

Tempest/Comet
11-05-2019, 07:39 AM
Summary for Hayata
2019: 5 wins (up to Nov 3)
Portugal, Oman, Serbia, Paraguay, Belarus.

Wins/Loss to Chinese player 9/5:
LSW Portugal 4:2
Hu LiMei Portugal 4:1
Shi Xunyao Korea 4:3
Chan Ke Korea 4:2
Fung Yalan Bulgaria 4:0
Zhang Qian Bulgaria 4:2
Yang Hujing Belarus 4:1
Shi Xunyao Belarus 4:1
Fan Siqi Belarus 4:2

Gu Yuting China 3:4
CM Japan 2:4
LSW Korea 2:4
LI Jayi Australia 2:4
Zhang Qian Poland 2:4

Up till Oct Hayata was in JNT’s B team (reserves).

Any one kept records of Kato, Sato ?
edit: missed record

karupinkun
11-05-2019, 08:08 AM
NextLevel


She has to overtake Sato and Kato to merit it.

Oh Yes....

And not only to come forward, but also to maintain an advantage by the middle of 2020 ...
(https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?21501-NextLevel)

Sato cant be chosen, as she plays defence and they dont want to field an attack / defence double for sure.

Kato´s chances are also marginal. Ifs Hirano plays singles JNT will not field 3 right handed players. if Ishikawa plays singles why should JNT chose Kato over Hirano? Hirano is way better doubles, too.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 08:31 AM
Summary for Hayata
2019: 5 wins (up to Nov 3)
Portugal, Oman, Serbia, Paraguay, Belarus.

Wins/Loss to Chinese player 9/4:
LSW Portugal 4:2
Hu LiMei Portugal 4:1
Shi Xunyao Korea 4:3
Chan Ke Korea 4:2
Fung Yalan Bulgaria 4:0
Zhang Qian Bulgaria 4:2
Yang Hujing Belarus 4:1
Shi Xunyao Belarus 4:1
Fan Siqi Belarus 4:2

Gu Yuting China 3:4
CM Japan 2:4
LSW Korea 2:4
LI Jayi Australia 2:4

Up till Oct Hayata was in JNT’s B team (reserves).

Any one kept records of Kato, Sato?


Honestly, I didn’t want to ....But in fairness, forced, with tears in his eyes ...

Poland,October 2019... QF....Zhang Qiang - 2:4...A disappointing loss, because recently she won against her .....

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 08:40 AM
Sato cant be chosen, as she plays defence and they dont want to field an attack / defence double for sure.

Kato´s chances are also marginal. Ifs Hirano plays singles JNT will not field 3 right handed players. if Ishikawa plays singles why should JNT chose Kato over Hirano? Hirano is way better doubles, too.

Damn formal ranking .....(for JNT leadership) ...

In theory, Hayata could formally beat Kato in the ITTF ranking by mid-2020 ...But this is very, very difficult - Hayata has big losses, deductions for February-March 2019 ...Kato will have much less deductions for this period .....
As for Sato, she has very few direct deductions for January-May 2020 ....+T2 , +Grand Final...:(

It would be very important for Hayata to get to the championship in April 2020 ... Will it be possible ..

Give Hayata a chance to prove equal with the three best players in Japan! No qualifications! Well, why didn’t they take her on TWC ?!
:mad:

NextLevel
11-05-2019, 08:47 AM
Sato cant be chosen, as she plays defence and they dont want to field an attack / defence double for sure.

Kato´s chances are also marginal. Ifs Hirano plays singles JNT will not field 3 right handed players. if Ishikawa plays singles why should JNT chose Kato over Hirano? Hirano is way better doubles, too.

You are acting as if JNT prefers to use discretion rather than follow rules. Why is Sato at the world team cuo?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-05-2019, 08:53 AM
Damn formal ranking .....(for JNT leadership) ...

In theory, Hayata could formally beat Kato in the ITTF ranking by mid-2020 ...But this is very, very difficult - Hayata has big losses, deductions for February-March 2019 ...Kato will have much less deductions for this period .....
As for Sato, she has very few direct deductions for January-May 2020 ....+T2 , +Grand Final...:(

It would be very important for Hayata to get to the championship in April 2020 ... Will it be possible ..

Give Hayata a chance to prove equal with the three best players in Japan! No qualifications! Well, why didn’t they take her on TWC ?!
:mad:

I hope she will win the National Championships in January. that may weigh in any decision

karupinkun
11-05-2019, 09:02 AM
You are acting as if JNT prefers to use discretion rather than follow rules. Why is Sato at the world team cuo?

Is Sato gonna play games at the team world cup? If there is no injury she wont.

Correct me if Im wrong, but the third member of the olympic team is not choosen by world ranking, rather by JTTA. As JTTA wants to get the best results at the olympics they will decide which third team member is giving them the best chance to perform well. A good WR would make it more easy to explain the decision of course.

Im 95% certain JTTA go with Ito, Hirano and Ishkikawa, but for the other 5% I dont see them take Sato or Kato, because of the reasons I explained before. What would be your reasoning to take Sato or Kato over Hayata in the unlikley event that one of the top 3 not get the spot?

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 09:12 AM
God ... At least the fourth participant ..... Even so ... As Hirano at the last Olympics .....

Sali
11-05-2019, 09:25 AM
Summary for Hayata
2019: 5 wins (up to Nov 3)
Portugal, Oman, Serbia, Paraguay, Belarus.

Wins/Loss to Chinese player 9/5:
LSW Portugal 4:2
Hu LiMei Portugal 4:1
Shi Xunyao Korea 4:3
Chan Ke Korea 4:2
Fung Yalan Bulgaria 4:0
Zhang Qian Bulgaria 4:2
Yang Hujing Belarus 4:1
Shi Xunyao Belarus 4:1
Fan Siqi Belarus 4:2

Gu Yuting China 3:4
CM Japan 2:4
LSW Korea 2:4
LI Jayi Australia 2:4
Zhang Qian Poland 2:4

Up till Oct Hayata was in JNT’s B team (reserves).

Any one kept records of Kato, Sato ?
edit: missed record


She also lost to Chen Xingtong in germany.
Considering her big wins in January (LSW and HLM) since then she did not beat anyone important.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 09:43 AM
She also lost to Chen Xingtong in germany.
Considering her big wins in January (LSW and HLM) since then she did not beat anyone important.




2019 - ITTF Challenge Plus, Portugal Open, 32 KATO Miyu WU Yangchen 4 3 KATO Miyu
2019 - ITTF Challenge Plus, Portugal Open, 8 KATO Miyu LI Jiayuan 2 4 LI Jiayuan
2019 - World Table Tennis Championships 8 KATO Miyu LIU Shiwen 1 4 LIU Shiwen
2019 - ITTF World Tour Platinum, China Open, 32 KATO Miyu CHEN Xingtong 2 4 CHEN Xingtong
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Hong Kong Open, 32 KATO Miyu HE Zhuojia 1 4 HE Zhuojia
2019 - ITTF World Tour Platinum, Australian Open, 32 KATO Miyu QIAN Tianyi 1 4 QIAN Tianyi
2019 - T2 Diamond Malaysia Women's Singles 8 KATO Miyu CHEN Meng 4 2 KATO Miyu
2019 - T2 Diamond Malaysia Women's Singles 4 KATO Miyu ZHU Yuling 0 4 ZHU Yuling
2019 - T2 Diamond Malaysia Women's Singles 2 KATO Miyu DING Ning 0 4 DING Ning
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Czech Open, Olomouc 32 KATO Miyu LIU Weishan 1 4 LIU Weishan

Tempest/Comet
11-05-2019, 09:59 AM
@sali thnx for the reminder
the records are statistics, you can read into/use it anyway you wish. They are meant to be manipulated to suit what you wish to say.
(BTW, who else has beat Chinese girls whatever tier they’re in, and how many times ?)
Hayata is not ready for 2020, her great potential is undeniable, maybe just as good as Hirano-Ishikawa even now (which are not really that good against China currently) but NOT better. I’m not going to compare her against the aging soon-to-retire CNT elite which is no concern of hers. Murakami (former JNT Head coach) said Japanese girls would really come into their own, not in 2020, but in 2024. That’s the time span for Hayata to blossom.
In the meantime, I look it this way, someone has found chinks in CNT’s armour and nip them in the bud. That’s a good thing to look forward to in the years ahead.
(I’m not concerned with the artificial time line of 2020, and try to revolve/justify everything around it. If it matters, I’d let Ishikawa or Hirano take the fall for failing the dreams of their country, as either of them would impede Japan’s aim for gold - at this writing, and leave Hayata out of the fray.)

Tempest/Comet
11-05-2019, 10:16 AM
I believe JTTA is trying their best to be fair in the WTC, but there’s no good way around it. So they went the only way that would avoid controversy...go by WR. That’s why Sato is in. Also to minimize another monkey, Hayata is out, so is Kato. So just 4.
Remember Hirano was in London’s WTC ? She never got to play even 1 game. Or Hayata & Nagasaki in Team WTTC ? Getting into the team is no guarantee one will play.
I think the singles spot will be evenly allocated to Hirano & Ishikawa for fairness in pt competition’s sake, the odd spots will be filled by Ito, or even Sato. This is even more likely now that Japan is drawn into Group B and may not even make it to the Final.
I also think 2020 Team will be Ito-Hirano-Ishikawa, but it will not be like Rio, where Hirano was “P” due to her 4th ranking. That’s when the discretion/recommendation clause comes in handy. Instead of Sato or Kato, Hayata may get the p card because of her versatility. But take note that the Ito-Hayata combo hasn’t seen action since April 2019, so there’s no current valid data to use as yardstick.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 10:21 AM
2019 - ITTF Challenge Plus, Portugal Open 16 SATO Hitomi - FAN Siqi 1 : 4 FAN Siqi
2019 - World Table Tennis Championships 16 SATO Hitomi - WANG Manyu 2 : 4 WANG Manyu
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Hong Kong Open 32 SATO Hitomi - MU Zi 4 : 3 SATO Hitomi
2019 - ITTF World Tour Platinum, Japan Open 16 SATO Hitomi - DING Ning 4 : 2 SATO Hitomi
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Bulgarian Open 8 SATO Hitomi - WU Yang 0 : 4 WU Yang
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Czech Open 16 SATO Hitomi - FENG Yalan 1 : 4 FENG Yalan
2019 - ITTF World Tour, Czech Open 32 SATO Hitomi - LI Jiayi 4 : 2 SATO Hitomi

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 10:28 AM
I believe JTTA is trying their best to be fair in the WTC, but there’s no good way around it. So they went the only way that would avoid controversy...go by WR. That’s why Sato is in. Also to minimize another monkey, Hayata is out, so is Kato. So just 4.
Remember Hirano was in London’s WTC ? She never got to play even 1 game. Or Hayata & Nagasaki in Team WTTC ? Getting into the team is no guarantee one will play.
I think the singles spot will be evenly allocated to Hirano & Ishikawa for fairness in pt competition’s sake, the odd spots will be filled by Ito, or even Sato. This is even more likely now that Japan is drawn into Group B and may not even make it to the Final.

I agree, there is a certain risk of not reaching the final ...(even a couple, Ishikawa-Hirano, in my opinion, is not reliable enough ... I mean, not a game with China ....)

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 10:31 AM
It would be interesting to see the statistics of personal meetings (among themselves) of the first female five of Japan for All of Japan 2019 ....

zeio
11-05-2019, 10:40 AM
"Do not lose to your weak self" - Hina Hayata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HLT0iAHy04

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 12:16 PM
Thanks a lot, Zeio ... Great video ....

Sali
11-05-2019, 12:28 PM
I believe JTTA is trying their best to be fair in the WTC, but there’s no good way around it. So they went the only way that would avoid controversy...go by WR. That’s why Sato is in. Also to minimize another monkey, Hayata is out, so is Kato. So just 4.
Remember Hirano was in London’s WTC ? She never got to play even 1 game. Or Hayata & Nagasaki in Team WTTC ? Getting into the team is no guarantee one will play.
I think the singles spot will be evenly allocated to Hirano & Ishikawa for fairness in pt competition’s sake, the odd spots will be filled by Ito, or even Sato. This is even more likely now that Japan is drawn into Group B and may not even make it to the Final.
I also think 2020 Team will be Ito-Hirano-Ishikawa, but it will not be like Rio, where Hirano was “P” due to her 4th ranking. That’s when the discretion/recommendation clause comes in handy. Instead of Sato or Kato, Hayata may get the p card because of her versatility. But take note that the Ito-Hayata combo hasn’t seen action since April 2019, so there’s no current valid data to use as yardstick.

what is more important you wrote before 2024 will be the time. I think the key now should be not to put so much expectation for youg players like harimoto, ito or hayata. They are all working hard and probably it will let them develope enough in few years becoming top players. For such big events like olympics experience is very important, I have seen many times promising young players loosing to much lower ranked players because they were expected to win and parents pressure.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 12:53 PM
Tempest/Comet

.....But take note that the Ito-Hayata combo hasn’t seen action since April 2019...

Yes, and this is sad .... Even in Austria they are not declared ...It is possible, of course, that they do not want to load Ito - Ito too much, definitely in singles and in XD ( Mizutani) ....

Tempest/Comet
11-05-2019, 01:18 PM
Japan really doesn’t have any option, but to send the current cream of it’s crop, even if it isn’t as good or as consistent as it can be. But it is what it is.
The Olympics on their home soil have a lot to do with the hype and magnified expectations. JOC has sucked a lot of government money into preparing it, from citizens’ tax dollars, despite protestations, and has to answer for it. If not for the location being Tokyo, Murakami’s prediction/reasonings are very sound indeed - 2024.
In the meantime, a few selected ones will have to be thrown into the fire, or used as canon fodder to hold the line, however improbable.
I don’t believe a Ishikawa/Ito/Hirano can take Gold, but given their overall prowess against any other country, with Ishikawa in, she may well guarantee Silver.
I also think Hirano will be in, one way or another. She is the ONLY successful result of the millions squandered by JOC’s Elite Academy in producing a winner. She’s also the ONLY one that holds all Japan’s top international honours in Singles in the current era.
That JOC/Elite Academy is a Black Hole for Japan’s very very best is another story all together.
In the meantime, there is a challenge at the door steps, a clear and present threat that must be answered, come what may. Japan is therefore sending in the best that they can muster, and they don’t have a lot to choose from by Jan 2020. The good thing is they only have to come up with 3.
Look beyond Tokyo, if one can get it pass their mind, to realize the true potential of the Japanese girls.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 01:27 PM
Japan really doesn’t have any option, but to send the current cream of it’s crop, even if it isn’t as good or as consistent as it can be. But it is what it is.
The Olympics on their home soil have a lot to do with the hype and magnified expectations. JOC has sucked a lot of government money into preparing it, from citizens’ tax money, despite protestations, and has to answer for it. If not for the location being Tokyo, Murakami’s prediction/reasonings are very sound indeed - 2024.
In the meantime, a few selected ones will have to be thrown into the fire, or used as canon fodder to hold the line, however improbable.
I don’t believe a Ishikawa/Ito/Hirano can take Gold, but given their overall prowess against any other country, with Ishikawa in, she may well guarantee Silver.
I also think Hirano will be in, one way or another. She is the ONLY successful result of the millions squandered by JOC’s Elite Academy in producing a winner. That JOC/Elite Academy is a Black Hole for Japan’s very very best is another story all together.
In the meantime, there is a challenge at the door steps, a clear and present threat that must be answered, come what may. Japan is therefore sending in the best that they can muster, and they don’t have a lot to choose from by Jan 2020. The good thing is they only have to come up with 3.
Look beyond Tokyo, if one can get it pass their mind, to realize the true potential of the Japanese girls.


Logically ....Too much is at stake in Japan ....This can be understood .....

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush....

Poor Hayata:(

NextLevel
11-05-2019, 01:55 PM
Is Sato gonna play games at the team world cup? If there is no injury she wont.

Correct me if Im wrong, but the third member of the olympic team is not choosen by world ranking, rather by JTTA. As JTTA wants to get the best results at the olympics they will decide which third team member is giving them the best chance to perform well. A good WR would make it more easy to explain the decision of course.

Im 95% certain JTTA go with Ito, Hirano and Ishkikawa, but for the other 5% I dont see them take Sato or Kato, because of the reasons I explained before. What would be your reasoning to take Sato or Kato over Hayata in the unlikley event that one of the top 3 not get the spot?

The Same reason the JTTA would. Higher world ranking. The 4th spot is largely a bonus and giving it to someone who doesn't clearly merit it has implications.

apacible
11-05-2019, 02:32 PM
How is the situation with a reserve player? I dont have knowledge about the rules, but there has to be a replacement ready, if one of the main olympic players get "injured". Could JNT use advantage of this? They could see if Ishikawa gets back in form, or if Hayata´s performance skyrock and adjust the third teammember just before the olympic tournament?

I know JNT will never do something like this, but this could help JNT to chose the best player in form and not just months ahead.

The reserve or alternate player only plays in the Olympics if one of the 3 Olympic players gets injured during the competition. I made a post on the reserve or alternate player in post #68 of the thread, which I'll copy below.

The alternate or reserve player of the Olympics can replace a player who is injured or ill before the match starts, but the injury or illness must be real and legitimate. Let me illustrate:

Let's say for example, JTTA believes that the Ishikawa and Hayata/Ito lineup will be best against all Non-Chinese Teams because Ishikawa is consistent against Non-Chinese players and Hayata/Ito hasn't lost to a Non-Chinese doubles team since 2017. However, let's say for example that JTTA also believes that the Hirano, Hayata and Ito lineup will give them the best chance against Team China because of its youth, fearlessness and unpredictability. (Again, this is only an example. I, in no way, know what JTTA is truly thinking or how they assess their players.)

In theory, Japan could send Ishikawa, Hayata and Ito to play all matches until the Semifinals for the Olympics. Then, when Japan faces China in the Final, Ishikawa would get "injured" and claim that she cannot play anymore in the tournament in order for Hirano, the alternate, to replace her for the match against China, and give Japan a better chance of winning.

However, in reality, this is harder to pull off since Ishikawa would need to get a medical certificate from a doctor certifying that she cannot play. She can't just "claim injury" without proof since this is the Olympic rules for injury replacement. Of course, if Ishikawa wanted to take one for the team and purposely injure herself, so Hirano can play, then the injury replacement would be valid. https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Ftongue.png Therefore, unless there really is a legitimate injury, Japan is stuck with the 3 players they choose.

If the legitimate injury to one to the 3 players happens before the Olympics start, and before the deadline for the submission of athlete names, then Japan can replace the injured player with anyone and not just the supposed reserve/alternate player.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 02:42 PM
Thank ! Important information!

apacible
11-05-2019, 02:47 PM
Thanks a lot, Apacible .....

(By the way, China made its move to Markham ..... 12 players, the so-called third team ...And although formally Hina Hayata seeding nr. 5, in any case, the struggle will be very difficult .....)

Given this news, Hirano and Ishikawa may end up withdrawing from the North American Open. Both of them can only gain points if they win the whole tournament and the field just got tougher with the additional Chinese Players. Given they still have the WTGF the following week on the other side of the globe, they might choose to be well-rested for that event instead, rather than play this event with minimal margin for error.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 02:52 PM
Given this news, Hirano and Ishikawa may end up withdrawing from the North American Open. Both of them can only gain points if they win the whole tournament and the field just got tougher with the additional Chinese Players. Given they still have the WTGF the following week on the other side of the globe, they might choose to be well-rested for that event instead, rather than play this event with minimal margin for error.

Yes, you have already expressed this opinion a little earlier ....
I also monitor the situation with great interest .....Two or three players (China) can completely knock them out .....

Tempest/Comet
11-05-2019, 03:03 PM
“...Two or three players (China) can completely knock them out .....”
well, China is sending twelve (12) girls to Markham :-p
“...you’ve got to ask yourself one question - “Do I feel lucky ?” Dirty Harry :-D

edit: withdraw ! argh !! they say it’s just money, yeah right, it’s not just money, it’s a lot of money, $1600’s worth :-(

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 03:12 PM
“...Two or three players (China) can completely knock them out .....”
well, China is sending twelve (12) girls to Markham :-p
“...you’ve got to ask yourself one question - “Do I feel lucky ?” Dirty Harry :-D

Thank you ... I am in the know ..... From 15 to 26 years old their age ...... Information about very many is very scarce .....

karupinkun
11-05-2019, 03:14 PM
The Same reason the JTTA would. Higher world ranking. The 4th spot is largely a bonus and giving it to someone who doesn't clearly merit it has implications.

There seems to be a misunderstanding. Im talking about the third member of the team. It seems you spoke about the replacement in general.

But picking up your point, I think the 4th spot is still to important to just give it to the best in WR. Just imagine Ito or Hirano getting injured. With the pressure to achieve results JTTA is in no position to give favors of any kind.

With the double being so important, especially for the 3th team member or potentially in XD i cant see why JTTA should pick Sato or Kato. But its fine if we agree to disagree in that matter.

People were asking why Hayata isnt even a reserve at the WTC. Maybe i can give a plausible explanation. The german team is attending with only three players and no reserves. The reason is, that they probably wont play and will not make it back in time to attent the qualification of the platinum austrian tournament next week. For seeded players its not that stressful, as they start the tournament on thursday, but qualification already starts on tuesday.

zeio
11-05-2019, 03:20 PM
https://i.imgur.com/53rGcPW.png
https://i.imgur.com/JHEVoN8.png

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 03:27 PM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F53rGcPW.png
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJHEVoN8.png

Interesting .. Is there a similar test for Hina Hayata? Ishikawa-Hayata, for example?

zeio
11-05-2019, 03:33 PM
I plan to start one when the dust settles for the 2nd spot.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 03:48 PM
I plan to start one when the dust settles for the 2nd spot.

Thanks in advance ! We wait !

:o

driversbeat
11-05-2019, 03:49 PM
I don't get it. Why can't Japan make the finals? Are they drawn against China in the semifinals despite being seeded 2nd? Which ghost team could possibly be seeded between Japan and China?

Janard
11-05-2019, 04:10 PM
I don't get it. Why can't Japan make the finals? Are they drawn against China in the semifinals despite being seeded 2nd? Which ghost team could possibly be seeded between Japan and China?

Groups =/= Quarters so Groups A and B do not mean first half (unless I'm wrong?). In the second knock-out stage, winners from Group A and B will be allocated into positions 1 and 8 (i.e. different halves). Japan will only be in the same half as China (assuming they top Group A) if they are not the winner of Group B.

zeio
11-05-2019, 04:10 PM
Thanks in advance ! We wait !

:o

On 2nd thought, I started one.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_L155vUlT9r3u1hKE-hMw/community?lb=UgyHiX2H09GaauEYE3B4AaABCQ
https://i.imgur.com/NZnV6rN.png

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 04:15 PM
In its subgroup, Japan will win ....
But then ..... Hong Kong, Korea, Chinese Taipei .....

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 04:18 PM
On 2nd thought, I started one.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_L155vUlT9r3u1hKE-hMw/community?lb=UgyHiX2H09GaauEYE3B4AaABCQ
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNZnV6rN.png


Thank !(I’ll go there ...)

zeio
11-05-2019, 04:54 PM
The Same reason the JTTA would. Higher world ranking. The 4th spot is largely a bonus and giving it to someone who doesn't clearly merit it has implications.

From the selections for Rio (http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report.php?bn=1&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&rpcdno=1845#1845), Murakami explicitly told the media that the 3rd spot would be decided by world ranking. For the men's team, it would be decided by development headquarter, and in the end they went by world ranking.

5 Mizutani
12 Niwa
18 M. Yoshimura
22 Oshima

5 Ishikawa
6 Fukuhara
10 Ito
17 Hirano

NextLevel
11-05-2019, 05:23 PM
From the selections for Rio (http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report.php?bn=1&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&rpcdno=1845#1845), Murakami explicitly told the media that the 3rd spot would be decided by world ranking. For the men's team, it would be decided by development headquarter, and in the end they went by world ranking.

5 Mizutani
12 Niwa
18 M. Yoshimura
22 Oshima

5 Ishikawa
6 Fukuhara
10 Ito
17 Hirano
Thanks and my point exactly. Selecting Sato for this World Teams shows how conservative the JNT is despite our desires.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 05:30 PM
Thanks and my point exactly. Selecting Sato for this World Teams shows how conservative the JNT is despite our desires.

Short and very, very accurate!

apacible
11-05-2019, 05:46 PM
There seems to be a misunderstanding. Im talking about the third member of the team. It seems you spoke about the replacement in general.

But picking up your point, I think the 4th spot is still to important to just give it to the best in WR. Just imagine Ito or Hirano getting injured. With the pressure to achieve results JTTA is in no position to give favors of any kind.

With the double being so important, especially for the 3th team member or potentially in XD i cant see why JTTA should pick Sato or Kato. But its fine if we agree to disagree in that matter.

People were asking why Hayata isnt even a reserve at the WTC. Maybe i can give a plausible explanation. The german team is attending with only three players and no reserves. The reason is, that they probably wont play and will not make it back in time to attent the qualification of the platinum austrian tournament next week. For seeded players its not that stressful, as they start the tournament on thursday, but qualification already starts on tuesday.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! I do however, have some info to add about the reserve player from the official document for Olympic Qualifcation. Here's the google translated quotation from the 2020 Olympic Qualification Document of Japan:

4.リザーブ候補選手1 名
日本がメダルを獲得するために必要なダブルス及びシングルスでの国際競争力を持ち
合わせている者1 名を、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOC に推薦する。
リザーブ選手の発表時期はJOC へのエントリー期限直前とする。
5.補足基準
代表候補選手及びリザーブ候補選手が故障等で大会参加が不能となった場合、その代替
候補選手は、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOC に推薦する。

4). 1 reserve candidate
International competitiveness in doubles and singles necessary for Japan to win medals
The headquarters will determine one person to be combined, report it to the board and recommend it to the JOC.
The reserve players will be announced immediately before the JOC entry deadline.

5). Supplementary criteria
If the representative candidate player or reserve candidate player cannot participate in the tournament due to a failure, etc.
Candidate athletes will be determined by the Strengthening Headquarters and reported to the Board of Directors and recommended to the JOC.

Based on the document, the reserve player will be picked based on "International competitiveness in doubles and singles necessary for Japan to win medals" not world ranking. Therefore, it's not a given that the reserve spot will be awarded to the highest WR Japanese player not part of the 3-player main team. Doubles and singles ability and team-fit will be given more importance in selecting the reserve.

Also if one of the 3 main Olympic players get injured before the Olympics start, they don't necessarily have to put the reserve as the replacement, but can opt to get someone else. For example, if Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa are the main players and Sato is the reserve, and Ishikawa gets injured before the Olympics, JTTA can opt to put Hayata in as the 3rd main player given that she's a lefty to replace another lefty and need not automatically go with Sato. However, once the Olympics start though and an injury occurs, it's only the reserve player that can fill in.

On your point of Hayata not being a reserve for the TWC, I agree with your theory. I think that Hayata was offered the 5th team spot but the problem is that the Belarus Open is a week before the TWC. Usually, the Japanese team will have at least a week-long closed training before major tournaments and Hayata can't be part of that if she joins the Belarus Open. Furthermore, Hayata may not even play in the TWC, so she may have thought it would be better for her Olympic chances to join the Belarus Open where she can gain points and showcase her talent for the Olympic selection team rather than forego the Belarus Open and be benched in the TWC. If JTTA really went by World Ranking for the TWC selection, Kato would have gotten the 5th spot, so the fact that the 5th spot is vacant could mean that it was supposedly Hayata's but she turned it down. Since the deadline for player lineups is November 4, maybe the 5th spot was left vacant in case Hayata would reconsider her decision and decides to withdraw from the Belarus Open to play in the TWC instead. Also, the men's team composition isn't based on WR order either, so definitely plausible that TWC selection isn't strictly by WR.

Vlad Celler
11-05-2019, 05:55 PM
Thank you, Apacible, a very interesting point of view .......

NextLevel
11-05-2019, 09:01 PM
I think the desire to have Hayata is leading us to construct too many narratives that keep her in the mix. Is there really a good reason not to field Hayata in Team World Cup if it is a realistic possibility? The conservative nature of the JNT selections is the consistent thread. Expectations of a radical deviation are based more on hope than experience.

zeio
11-06-2019, 06:20 AM
I feel the JNT has become very cautious after the dispute by Miki House on behalf of Sayaka Hirano (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86533&PID=1075286&title=2019-ittf-bulgaria-open-1318-august#1075286) over JTTA's decision to field Miu-Mima over Ishikawa/S. Hirano for WTTC 2015.

zeio
11-06-2019, 06:45 AM
Here's the selection criteria for Rio 2016. Similar footnote about international competitiveness to earn medals but no specific mention of singles and doubles.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235552/http://www.jtta.or.jp/topics/2016/16rioolympicselection.pdf


平成26年9月6日理事会承認
(公財)日本卓球協会 強化本部


第31回オリンピック競技大会 (2016/リオ) 卓球競技アジア大陸予選会
男女シングルス日本代表選手選考基準および
第31回オリンピック競技大会 (2016/リオ) 卓球競技男女団体代表候補選手選考基準

1.アジア大陸予選会 男子・女子シングルス代表選手(1NOC2名)の選出方法
(1)『2015年9月ITTF発表予定』の世界ランキングから上位2名を標記大会の代表選手とする。
※ アジア大陸予選会代表選手が大陸予選会に於いて代表権が獲得できなかった場合、ITTFの規程により、
同選手が2016年5月発行のオリンピックシングルスランキングリストの上位から選ばれる選手(22名)
の選考対象となる。

※代表決定者が故障等で参加が不能となった場合、その代替選手は次の2点を勘案し強化本部が決定する。
イ.国際競争力の実績と評価。
ロ.国際競争力向上へ高い潜在性があると思われる選手。

2.男子・女子団体代表候補選手(上記1の2名に加える残り1名)の選出方法
(1)強化本部推薦(1名)
次の2点を勘案し、強化本部が決定する。
イ、国際競争力の実績と評価
ロ、日本がメダルを獲得するために必要な国際競争力を持ち合わせている者

3.リザーブ選手(1名)の選出方法
(1)強化本部推薦(1名)
次の2点を勘案し、強化本部が決定する。
イ、国際競争力の実績と評価
ロ、日本がメダルを獲得するために必要な国際競争力を持ち合わせている者

※なお、オリンピック憲章によってオリンピック競技大会への参加が認められる選手であることが選考の
前提条件となる。

(※選考基準1、2に該当した代表候補は2015年9月開催の理事会にて審議し、決定する予定である。)


以 上

*リオデジャネイロオリンピック大会日程:(2016.8/5-21)、卓球競技(2016.8/6-16)

zeio
11-06-2019, 08:21 AM
Niwa "seriously" playing his retirement tournament...

zeio
11-06-2019, 03:45 PM
https://hochi.news/articles/20191105-OHT1T50188.html

伊藤美誠、シングルスの柱「チームみんなでいいパフォーマンスを」
2019年11月6日 9時4分スポーツ報知
# スポーツ# 卓球

◆卓球 JA全農 ITTF 卓球ワールドカップ団体戦 2019 TOKYO(6日開幕、東京体育館)

 卓球の国際大会「JA全農 W杯団体戦」(報知新聞社後援)は6日から10日まで東京体育館で行われる。20年東京五輪のテスト大会として実施され、会場も試合形式も同じ。日本は昨年2月の前回大会(ロンドン)で男女とも銀メダルを獲得した。女子で主将を務める石川佳純(26)=全農=は、地元の声援を力に変え初優勝を目指すことを宣言。伊藤美誠(19)=スターツ=、平野美宇(19)=日本生命=、佐藤瞳(21)=ミキハウス=とともに打倒・中国に挑む。6日の1次リーグ初戦はオーストリアと対戦する。

 伊藤が国内で自身初の団体戦に挑む。13歳だった14年の世界選手権団体戦は会場で観戦。「この舞台で試合をしたいなとすごく思いました」と憧れた。世界ランク7位で日本勢トップに立つが、国内でも全日本選手権で2年連続3冠に輝いている。「私は日本で試合するのも大好き。たくさんの方に見に来てもらえたらすごくうれしいし、チームみんなでいいパフォーマンスをできたらいいなと思います」と胸を高鳴らせた。

 昨年2月の前回大会では早田ひな(19)=日本生命=とのダブルスが中心だったが、今大会はシングルスの柱として起用される可能性が高い。馬場監督もポイントゲッターに指名。「ポイントを取ってもらいたい選手。彼女もそれを自覚してくれていて、非常に頑張ってくれると思う」と期待を込めた。同年5月の世界選手権団体戦(スウェーデン)では中国との決勝で劉詩ブンに勝利するなど、初戦から8戦全勝。大会のMVPに輝いた。団体戦での連勝記録継続も注目される。

 直近の10月のワールドツアー、スウェーデン・オープン(OP)、ドイツOPでは2大会連続で準優勝を飾るなど、安定感も増してきた。9月の1か月間は大会に出場せず、練習期間に設定。戦術の幅を広げたことで「前よりもできることが増えたし、質がすごく上がった。1か月間練習できて本当に良かった。いい試合ができて、自信を持てました」と成長を実感する。

 10月21日に誕生日を迎えた。「団体戦ですけど、個の力は大事になってくると思う。出させてもらったら勝つことが一番。勝って、チームの1点、チームの勝ちにつなげられるようにしたい」。20年東京五輪も控える19歳の1年。自覚を胸に最高のスタートを切る。

Ito is now the pillar for singles and Baba calls Ito the "point-getter."

The stability has also increased, winning second place in 2 consecutive tournaments at the Swedish Open and the German Open in October. She did not participate in the tournament for 1 month in September and use it as a practice period. By expanding the range of tactics, "I can do more than before and the quality has improved a lot. It was really good to practice for a month. I was able to have a good game and have confidence."

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-06-2019, 03:49 PM
What impresses me the most is ITO's serves. I was right behind the players and with my friends we played the "guess the spin" and with ITO I was fooled all the time. or the serve was too fast we couldn't react at all. We didn't have that much feeling with any other player male or female. On top of that, she has a huge variety of serves.

Vlad Celler
11-06-2019, 04:24 PM
What impresses me the most is ITO's serves. I was right behind the players and with my friends we played the "guess the spin" and with ITO I was fooled all the time. or the serve was too fast we couldn't react at all. We didn't have that much feeling with any other player male or female. On top of that, she has a huge variety of serves.

Thank you very much ! Write, write, you are an eyewitness !!!

zeio
11-06-2019, 04:25 PM
http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2019-11-02/doc-iicezzrr6657139.shtml

孙颖莎:哪里跌倒从哪里爬起来 输伊藤的比赛珍贵
2019年11月02日 09:29 新浪体育综合

  瑞典公开赛半决赛中,孙颖莎在2比0领先的情况下被伊藤美诚翻盘,势头正猛的她输了球,输的还是世乒赛完胜过的主要对手。孙颖莎说:“回想那场比赛,我在赛前准备上就出现了一些问题。”能帮助孙颖莎获得连胜的精密赛前准备,在不够全面的时候也成为了她输球的原因。

  在孙颖莎看来,瑞典公开赛中的伊藤美诚和世乒赛上判若两人,“我们世乒赛交手时,她是日本名将,我是第一次参加世乒赛的新人,她对我一点都不了解,我上去就是拼她,那时候感觉伊藤身上是背着包袱的。但在瑞典,伊藤的表情让我觉得她和世乒赛时完全不一样,打得非常坦然,反而我在被她猜中了几个球后,人就很慌。”孙颖莎在场上也在观察伊藤美诚,也在执行赛前准备的技战术,“但在她打到我难受的点时,我没有跟上她的应变,后面几局我就是在跟着伊藤的节奏胡乱变,没有一点自己的想法。”

  输了比赛,孙颖莎总结了在备战中应变方面的准备不足,也反思了自己的心态。“对伊藤这位能力很强的对手,我觉得我不能抱着一种‘我千万不能输给她’这样沉重的心态打,越这样想,压力就越加在了我身上。第二,我输过她一次,如果再碰上,我一定要借鉴这次输球看到的问题。”

  瑞典公开赛结束后,孙颖莎非常想在德国公开赛时能再碰到伊藤美诚,想证明自己,想让交手记录停留在胜利这一笔。德国站又对上伊藤美诚,这次孙颖莎是站在决赛场上,她的成败直接关乎冠军归属。让孙颖莎不紧张是不可能的,比赛前,乒协主席刘国梁给孙颖莎来了电话。“刘主席帮我准备了比赛,他让我去回忆世乒赛前准备的细节,赛前我就一直在回想,因为世乒赛的记忆是特别美好的,所以真上场比赛的时候我心里觉得挺舒服,没有那么多压力了。”孙颖莎说,赛前刘主席、马琳指导和黄海城指导把该说的该准备的都讲到了,到赛场上就是她自己要面对的了。

  比赛中,孙颖莎在1比0领先后,被伊藤美诚追平了一局,这时候孙颖莎想起刘国梁在电话里跟她说过:前三局赢一局就行,打成1比2也要慢慢打,平稳地打,不用非要领先,一分一分打就没问题。同时刘国梁还嘱咐孙颖莎说,要敢于和伊藤比猜心理。孙颖莎想起这些嘱咐,平稳地和伊藤美诚周旋,最终4比1战胜了对手。

  “后来我回看这场比赛,这场比赛对我来说很珍贵,我以后肯定要经历很多这样的比赛,必须从比赛中去成长,从各种意义上说,这场球都将给我带来很大的帮助。”孙颖莎总结说,德国公开赛上,面对伊藤美诚时,身上不是“不能输给她”的压力,而是“必须要赢”的坚定。(乒乓世界)
In Sun Yingsha's opinion, the Ito in WTTC and in Swedish Open were 2 different persons. "When we played in the WTTC, she was a Japanese star. It was my first time to participate in the WTTC. She didn't know anything about me. I was the challenger. I felt that Ito was carrying a burden. But in Sweden, Ito's expression made me think that she was completely different from the WTTC. She played very calmly. Yet, I panicked after she guessed a few shots right." Sun Yingsha was also observing Ito on the court, and also executed the tactics prepared beforehand, "but when she hit where it hurt, I didn't keep up with her. In the next few games, I was following her pace, and I didn't have any of idea of my own."

After the end of the Swedish Open, Sun Yingsha really wanted to meet Ito again during the German Open, to prove herself and to keep the record in the black. She got what she wanted, this time standing in the final where her success or failure is directly related to the title. It is impossible for Sun Yingsha to not be nervous. Before the match, Liu Guoliang, president of the table tennis association, called Sun Yingsha. "President Liu prepared the match for me. He asked me to recall the details of the preparations before the WTTC. I have been thinking about it before the match because the memory of the WTTC is particularly nice, so I felt rather at ease when actually playing, not so much pressure.” Sun Yingsha said that before the match, President Liu, coach Ma Lin and coach Huang Haicheng did all they could and it came down to me on the court.

In the match, Sun Yingsha led 1-0, but was tied by Ito afterward. At that moment, she recalled what Liu Guoliang had told her on the phone: getting 1 in the first 3 games is good enough. Take it slow even if the score was 1 to 2. You don't have to lead at all costs. Playing point by point is fine. Liu Guoliang also reminded Sun Yingsha to play the mind game with Ito. Sun Yingsha kept these in mind, dealed smoothly with Ito, and finally defeated her 4-1.

zeio
11-06-2019, 04:29 PM
What impresses me the most is ITO's serves. I was right behind the players and with my friends we played the "guess the spin" and with ITO I was fooled all the time. or the serve was too fast we couldn't react at all. We didn't have that much feeling with any other player male or female. On top of that, she has a huge variety of serves.

In S-PARK or S1 for German Open, it's noted that she has like 5 or 6 service motions.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-06-2019, 04:30 PM
Thank you very much ! Write, write, you are an eyewitness !!!

of course ITO is lightning fast, but so are the Chinese players [well couldn't really see it today given their opponents were too weak, although CHEN Meng dropped one set to an Ukrainian chopper (Ganapova) and was 1 set all 4-8 in the 3rd.].

apacible
11-07-2019, 04:46 AM
I think the desire to have Hayata is leading us to construct too many narratives that keep her in the mix. Is there really a good reason not to field Hayata in Team World Cup if it is a realistic possibility? The conservative nature of the JNT selections is the consistent thread. Expectations of a radical deviation are based more on hope than experience.

I agree that maybe I was getting a bit carried away with my narrative. However, after all, it's just a theory. I only have circumstantial evidence to back it up and no conclusive evidence, so it's perfectly fine to disagree with it. At the same time, no one has presented any conclusive evidence to the theory the TWC women's team was chosen solely on WR. The fact that Japan only fielded 4 players instead of 5 and that the Men's Team isn't based on WR, puts doubt that that theory. Until there's conclusive evidence presenting the criteria of how the TWC team was chosen, I think we're all free to theorize how the team was selected.

There's less room for speculation in the selection of the alternate player since the JTTA set out the clear guidelines that the reserve player will be picked based on "International competitiveness in doubles and singles necessary for Japan to win medals." This gives JTTA room for discretion even though WR will likely play some role in determining the alternate. The factual circumstances of the Rio and Tokyo Olympics are quite different:

In Rio, the 4th highest ranked players in Hirano and Oshima also happened to be good doubles players. Hirano has success with Ito and Oshima had success with Morizono. So while on its face, it appears that JTTA may have gone by WR in the selection of the alternate, their skillsets also make them the logical choice as the alternate.

For Tokyo, the situation is different since the 4th highest ranked player is Sato, who is a chopper and does not necessarily fit the criteria of "International competitiveness in doubles and singles." The same goes with the Men's team where M. Yoshimura is being used more often as a doubles partner with the Top 3 Men's players than K. Yoshimura and Morizono who are both ranked higher than him. That's why JTTA opted to make the alternate spot based on discretion rather than placing that it would be purely based on WR. That gives them room for flexibility in the case the 4th highest ranked player is really incompatible.

We'll likely know the answer to how JTTA will select the Olympic team by January 2020 when the official announcement is made. I still remain hopeful that JTTA will take other relevant factors into consideration and not just blindly go by WR.

Vlad Celler
11-07-2019, 06:07 AM
apacible (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?68630-apacible)


...... I still remain hopeful that JTTA will take other relevant factors into consideration and not just blindly go by WR....

Let me join your hope .....

driversbeat
11-07-2019, 09:41 AM
I really think ITTF should switch up the team format to allow four players to compete so that players like Sato have the opportunity to play. As it stands it’s impossible to fit a chopper into a team unless they are top 2 in an association. For Korea they have the headache of playing Seo Hyowon in Singles even though she’s arguably the 3rd best player on the team. Also I’d love if they got rid of the ‘team captain players 2 singles out of the first 4 matches’ because so many teams are carried by one strong player alone. The only disadvantage to this rule would be strengthening China since it will be even harder to take them down even if one of their players has a bad day. I have a format in mind but I’m not sure if its worth the effort elaborating on it.

apacible
11-07-2019, 02:13 PM
I really think ITTF should switch up the team format to allow four players to compete so that players like Sato have the opportunity to play. As it stands it’s impossible to fit a chopper into a team unless they are top 2 in an association. For Korea they have the headache of playing Seo Hyowon in Singles even though she’s arguably the 3rd best player on the team. Also I’d love if they got rid of the ‘team captain players 2 singles out of the first 4 matches’ because so many teams are carried by one strong player alone. The only disadvantage to this rule would be strengthening China since it will be even harder to take them down even if one of their players has a bad day. I have a format in mind but I’m not sure if its worth the effort elaborating on it.

I'd love to hear the details on that format if ever you have the time to elaborate further on it. :) The only leagues that I am aware of that uses the 4 player format is the US National College Table Tennis Championships, where the first four matches are singles matches played by 4 different players of each team. If the Tie Score is at 2-2, the 5th match is a doubles match where each team picks 2 of their 4 players to play doubles. The European Team Championships also uses a 4-player format where the 4th player can substitute in the middle of the team tie after the 3rd match has been played. The usual problem with the 4-player format is that the best players of each team may not face each other unless both teams happen the line up their best players at the same spot. This is bad in terms of watchability since most people want to see the top player of each team face-off against each other, which is why ITTF doesn't use a 4-player team format.

Right now, the new Olympic format favors the ABC team over the XYZ team since the "Ace" player in the ABC team plays the 2nd and 4th match while the XYZ "Ace" player plays the 2nd and 5th match. Sometimes, the team tie never gets to the 5th match, so a team relying on their "Ace" player usually loses more often than not when they are the XYZ team. This isn't a problem with the 5-singles format, but is a problem with the Olympic Format with doubles. I would love the have the statistics of how often the ABC team wins against the XYZ team, but I seem to notice that the ABC team generally wins more often.

zeio
11-07-2019, 02:41 PM
At the club we have a team format where 4 players must be fielded in the first 3 matches:
Singles(A)
Doubles(B/C)
Singles(D)
Doubles(C/D or A/B)
Singles(B or C)

driversbeat
11-07-2019, 04:43 PM
Basically a similar format to what Zeio has posted but rearranged to:

1. Incorporate doubles in the first tie to emphasise its importance (and enhance the role of weaker players) as ITTF intended
2. Add an element of unpredictability in the 4th and 5th ties for spectatorship. Right now all ties are determined the moment teams submit their lineups, but allowing for 4th and 5th ties to be decided after accessing a team's performance in the first three ties would be a talking point for spectators as well.

Proposed Format:
Doubles (A/B)
Singles (C)
Singles (D)
Singles (A or B)
Doubles (any configuration of players who did not play in tie 4)

To illustrate my points, I'll use players from the current Japanese women's team since this is where the thread is posted, while possibly drawing on other nations/time periods where necessary.

a. This will force teams to make a decision: Do you want your best player to be featured in 2 matches within the first 4 ties? If yes, then she may only play the fourth singles if the rest of the team is able to win at least one point (or if she's good at doubles). If they insist on sending him to singles, the team has more flexibility in deciding where she plays (2nd or 3rd tie).

Ito/Hayata
Hirano
Ishikawa
Ito
Ishikawa/Hirano

OR

Ishikawa/Hirano
Ito
Hayata
Hirano
Ito/Hayata


b. This flexibility allows the Sato-problem to be fixed. 1 out of 4 players will only play one tie and this will allow teams to field defenders more easily without having to think about fielding them in two singles that locks the rest of their lineup.

Hirano/Ishikawa
Ito
Sato
Ishikawa
Ito/Hirano

c. The player that only plays one tie may be 'hidden' in this format by allowing them to play in the first tie only. This spot may serve to introduce inexperienced players to big tournaments, or to protect players that are deemed ineffective against the opposing team while still allowing them to play (e.g. Ishikawa against China)

Ishikawa/Hirano
Hayata
Ito (ties 2 and 3 swapped from previous examples to highlight the flexibility again)
Hirano
Hayata/Ito

d. Alternatively, a player that has not proven themselves in singles but has had exemplary records in doubles may be fully utilised in this team format. I believe this was why ITTF introduced doubles into the olympic format as well in order to keep the event relevant since doubles events were scrapped after 2004.

Sayaka/Fukuhara
Ishikawa
Ito
Fukuhara
Sayaka/Ishikawa

Teams with only one or two strong players are heavily penalised in this format. While the current and previous olympic formats are less problematic in this aspect, the WTTC team format is prone to being a one or two man show as 80% of the fixture is covered by two players only. This has allowed many teams to get away with fielding under-developed players in the third fixture while still achieving good results.

The most obvious example here is the Singapore women's team, which still lay within the quaterfinals/bronze medal range for much of 2013 to 2016 despite having only Feng Tianwei and Yu Mengyu as reliable players. In this alternate format, the only way Feng and Yu can cover 3 fixtures for Singapore to win a team match is if they allow the match to go the distance:

Yee/Goh
Feng
Yu
Yee
Feng/Yu

Any other configuration would see Feng or Yu paired up with a weaker team member in the final doubles fixture. I believe this will send a strong message to other nations to focus on developing players outside of their core team as well. Other offenders that have either coasted with only two strong players or have stuck with the same core team of 3 for many years and thus prevented their non-core players from getting exposure include
Romania, Netherlands, South Korea, Austria

There's a lot more that can be said about this, but one thing I wanted to add was that I'd much rather watch a doubles pair win the final tie than a single player become the 'hero' of the entire match. In fact, the entire reasoning behind this proposed format is to make all 5 ties equal in terms of magnitude and importance while eliminating the possibility that a team may win (or lose!) an entire match when one of their players has won two singles matches. In this format you won't get a repeat of the 2016 Olympic semifinals where Ishikawa won two singles matches and still had to taste defeat because the only way to win two matches is to win your singles tie on top of the doubles tie with someone else (other notable instances: Kim Kyung Ah vs Japan, WTTC 2010; Feng Tianwei vs North Korea, WTTC 2016)

20069

More of such scenes could be possible maybe?

pongfugrasshopper
11-07-2019, 06:05 PM
In addition to the benefits you mentioned, there's another side benefit. You don't end up with a single individual getting a ridiculous number of ranking points from individual best of 5 matches. No disrespect to CIC intended, but at the 2018 World Team Championships, CIC gained 2250 points from winning 9 matches against mostly relatively weak opposition. 2250 points is equivalent to winning a Platinum Tour!

Vlad Celler
11-07-2019, 06:19 PM
In addition to the benefits you mentioned, there's another side benefit. You don't end up with a single individual getting a ridiculous number of ranking points from individual best of 5 matches. No disrespect to CIC intended, but at the 2018 World Team Championships, CIC gained 2250 points from winning 9 matches against mostly relatively weak opposition. 2250 points is equivalent to winning a Platinum Tour!

I remember how surprised I was with the results of C.I.C. and F.T. (1750)

zeio
11-07-2019, 06:49 PM
c. The player that only plays one tie may be 'hidden' in this format by allowing them to play in the first tie only. This spot may serve to introduce inexperienced players to big tournaments, or to protect players that are deemed ineffective against the opposing team while still allowing them to play (e.g. Ishikawa against China)

https://i.imgur.com/4UQOWha.jpg

jawien
11-07-2019, 07:04 PM
[...]

Ishikawa/Hirano
Hayata
Ito (ties 2 and 3 swapped from previous examples to highlight the flexibility again)
Hirano
Hayata/Ito



Just for safe keeping, in case the JNT asked me about the best lineup ...

zeio
11-07-2019, 07:52 PM
Another article, "I can't tell where I live", on Hayata's recent trips around the world fighting for points. She jokes about her talent for "sleeping" anytime, anywhere, without any jet lag.

https://www.nishinippon.co.jp/nsp/item/n/555674/

早田ひな「どこに住んでるか分からない」苦境の五輪代表候補が漏らした本音
2019/11/1 6:00

西日本スポーツ

 卓球の東京五輪代表争いが大詰めを迎えている。男女それぞれ三つの出場枠をかけ、選手たちは世界各国のプロツアーを転戦中。4月の世界選手権個人戦女子ダブルス銀メダルの早田ひな(日本生命)は厳しい立場に立たされている中で最後まで可能性を信じ、世界中を飛び回っている。

 10月下旬の羽田空港。スウェーデン・オープン(OP)、ドイツOP、ポーランドOPとヨーロッパでの3大会を終えて帰国した早田は笑いながら言った。

 「どこに住んでいるのか分からないんです」

 9月中旬には台風15号の影響で移動に四苦八苦しながらも南米で開催されたパラグアイOPで優勝。遠征のない短い日本滞在中も、各地で開催されるTリーグに参戦した。まさに「どこに住んでいるのか分からない」といった状況なのだ。

 卓球の東京五輪シングルス日本代表は2人。来年1月の世界ランキング上位2人が選出される。団体戦メンバーとなる3人目は、シングルス代表でもある2人とのダブルスの相性や世界ランキングを考慮して強化本部が推薦する。ただし、団体戦のシード順位はシングルスの世界ランキングによって決まるため、シングルスの順位がメンバー選考に大きく影響する。

 10月の世界ランキングで日本勢は7位伊藤美誠(スターツ)、8位石川佳純(全農)、9位平野美宇(日本生命)の3人が突出している。早田は伊藤とペアを組んだダブルスで実績があり中国選手にもひけを取らないパワーを高く評価されているものの、ランキングは日本選手で6番手の26位。ランキングに影響するポイントを上積みするため、出場試合数を増やしているのだ。

 スウェーデンOP、ドイツOPはともに決勝トーナメント1回戦で敗退。この2大会より格付けが低く、日本勢の上位3人が出場しなかったポーランドOPでは8強にとどまった。帰国時は「3大会、自分の思う通りの成績が出せなくて帰ってきたので、いつもより精神的に疲れる」と、さすがにダメージを隠せずにいた。

 それでも、最後までファイティングポーズはとり続ける決意を固めている。「試合の中で成長している実感がある。日程や体力的にしんどかったりするけど、自分の中で希望が見えているというか…。五輪を諦めていない気持ちはあるし、自分で変わりたいという思いや、自分だったら変われるという思いでやっている」

 幼いころから自身を知る石田大輔コーチら、ともに世界を回る「チームひな」の存在も大きい。「みんな目指しているところは同じ。可能性があるから教えてくれている。それに私も応えたい」と力を込める。

 時差ぼけがなく、どんな状況でも眠れることが大きな武器。取材の最後に早田は「書いておいてください」と言って、こう続けた。「寝ることは重要な才能」。前向きに笑いながら、19歳の五輪代表候補は次の試合の地へ向かう。(伊藤瀬里加)
“I feel like I’m growing in the matches. The schedule is hard on my stamina, but I’m sure I can see hope. I won’t give up on the Olympics. I want to change myself. I am doing it with the thought that it will change if I change myself."

NextLevel
11-07-2019, 08:01 PM
Another article, "I can't tell where I live", on Hayata's recent trips around the world fighting for points. She jokes about her talent for "sleeping" anytime, anywhere, without any jet lag.

https://www.nishinippon.co.jp/nsp/item/n/555674/

“I feel like I’m growing in the matches. The schedule is hard on my stamina, but I’m sure I can see hope. I won’t give up on the Olympics. I want to change myself. I am doing it with the thought that it will change if I change myself."


Youthful ignorance can be a beautiful thing. I admire her drive and it will serve her well even in 2024 if not in 2020.

Vlad Celler
11-08-2019, 02:50 AM
Youthful ignorance can be a beautiful thing. I admire her drive and it will serve her well even in 2024 if not in 2020.


Very well said ... I join you ..

zeio
11-08-2019, 04:56 AM
Youthful ignorance can be a beautiful thing. I admire her drive and it will serve her well even in 2024 if not in 2020.

https://i.imgur.com/hoxcD3m.png

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-08-2019, 08:05 AM
by the way "Sayaka" is a first name. Her full name was Sayaka HIRANO.

zeio
11-09-2019, 04:08 PM
https://twitter.com/tvtokyo_tt/status/1193160068268576769

#平野美宇 試合後インタビュー
この1年で今日が一番強かったと思います。
明日のために練習してきたので、明日は出し切りたいです!
Hirano's post-match interview
I'm the strongest today over the past year.
I've been practicing for tomorrow, so I want to do it tomorrow!

https://twitter.com/tvtokyo_tt/status/1193161321081999361

#伊藤美誠 試合後インタビュー
落ち着いて2ゲーム目に臨めました。
明日は自分らしく楽しんで決勝に挑みたいです。
Ito's post-match interview
I was able to calm down going into G2.
I'd like to enjoy myself tomorrow and try to win the final.

Vlad Celler
11-09-2019, 04:44 PM
Unfortunately, the Ishikawa-Hirano couple have no chance at all for tomorrow ....
Start 0:1.....That means, to win, Ito needs to win two games and Hirano win one ....
Extremely unlikely ...Especially if the youth will play for China ......

Vlad Celler
11-09-2019, 04:46 PM
Poor Ishikawa .. She has a real chance to jump out of the top 10 in the December ITTF ranking ...
(At least before Austria, the preliminary calculation is Hirano tenth, Ishikawa eleventh)....

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 12:11 PM
In front of Austria
Preliminary calculations of the December ITTF rating (WS) in front of Austria.


11/2019 minim.(8th result) Deductions of old bonuses(11/2018)+current reserve Intermediate result

4 - D.N. 13910 1440 (-1575,1440/res1170,1125) 13190 Aus T2
5 - WANG Manyu 14210 1170 (-2025,1260/1125,1125) 13175 (no) T2
6 - ITO Mima 13440 1440 (-1800/res 1170,1125) 12890 Aus T2
7 - Z.Y.L. 14330 1250 (-1800,1620/900,675) 12485 Aus T2
8 - F.T. 11660 1080 (-1350/900) 11210 Aus T2
9 - C.I.C. 11360 880 (-1575/1250) 11035 Aus T2
10- Hirano 11375 1020 (-1350/900) 10925 Aus T2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11- Ishikawa 11805 1170 (-1260/900,1500/900) 10845 Aus T2



Please note, these are not final, but intermediate, minimum results of the December ITTF rating.
After Austria, the results of some will change upward ....
In addition, for all these players, the results will increase after T-2 (+ 400-1000 points) ...

karupinkun
11-10-2019, 12:17 PM
with the home team world cup over we got some new intel about the JNT.

For me its quite clear thats a matter of goals. If JNT is fine finishing 2. or 3. just send Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa. Its a solid lineup and with Ito on top they will most likely win 3 singles against every other team except CTN. With the personal skill of Hirano and Ishikawa they will win most of their doubles, even if its not a great combination.

But if JNT really want to challenge CNT for gold they need to take another approach. Ito is able to compete with the CNT members, but I dont see other JNT players win more then possibly one singles game. If JNT wants to put on a fight they have to win the first doubles game! Just imagine winning the double. Ito has less pressure in her next match. Its just the other way around for the CNT first singles game player. The pressure would be quite huge. If you get behind 2-0 and play against the home crowd everything is possible.

My point is, that Ishikawa cant play doubles if JNT want to compete with CNT. And its not that her singles chances are much higher too.

If Ito / Hirano / Ishikawa play at the olympics they finish 2. or 3. 99%, but will lose to CNT. If JNT puts their main emphasis on doubles there might be a slightly higher chance of failure against teams that are not CNT, but they might have a 10% chance of beating CNT.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-10-2019, 12:18 PM
with the home team world cup over we got some new intel about the JNT.

For me its quite clear thats a matter of goals. If JNT is fine finishing 2. or 3. just send Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa. Its a solid lineup and with Ito on top they will most likely win 3 singles against every other team except CTN. With the personal skill of Hirano and Ishikawa they will win most of their doubles, even if its not a great combination.

But if JNT really want to challenge CNT for gold they need to take another approach. Ito is able to compete with the CNT members, but I dont see other JNT players win more then possibly one singles game. If JNT wants to put on a fight they have to win the first doubles game! Just imagine winning the double. Ito has less pressure in her next match. Its just the other way around for the CNT first singles game player. The pressure would be quite huge. If you get behind 2-0 and play against the home crowd everything is possible.

My point is, that Ishikawa cant play doubles if JNT want to compete with CNT. And its not that her singles chances are much higher too.

If Ito / Hirano / Ishikawa play at the olympics they finish 2. or 3. 99%, but will lose to CNT. If JNT puts their main emphasis on doubles there might be a slightly higher chance of failure against teams that are not CNT, but they might have a 10% chance of beating CNT.

i totally agree with you, and I have been saying that for a while as well

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 12:29 PM
And I totally agree ....

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 12:37 PM
Ishikawa is fantastically lucky .....
D.N. leaves Austria ...
Ishikawa - nr. 4 ....

Tempest/Comet
11-10-2019, 12:38 PM
Off the World Cup, neither Ishikawa or Hirano gained on each other, even Babba tried very hard to give both equal playing opportunities. In the end, it’s a wash. Ishikawa is not a doubles player, that much is evident. But Ito really needs to be in Team Singles slot to have a plausible chance. The only option now is for Hirano to bump Ishikawa off for the Singles spot and get into Team for sure, forcing JNT to find a third player that can play doubles, and also reasonably good at Singles. Even if Hirano gets in, there are numerous hurdles in JTTA’s way to just shove Ishikawa aside.
I think they have till May 2020 to decide the third team player.
Hoping for secret weapon to step up.

Tempest/Comet
11-10-2019, 12:45 PM
Ishikawa is fantastically lucky .....
D.N. leaves Austria ...
Ishikawa - nr. 4 ....
She needs more than luck, even at nr4, China is flooding the field with players, chances of meeting one in the first round is still very high. Not to mention other Japanese players from qualifications. With great pressure on her and her impatience + CNT phobia, I don’t see her improving her Best 8 points.

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 12:58 PM
She needs more than luck, even at nr4(?), China is flooding the field with players, chances of meeting one in the first round is still very high. With great pressure on her and her impatience +CNT phobia, I don’t see her improving her Best 8 points.

I also do not see for her the opportunity to avoid 11th place in the ITTF rating for December ...

karupinkun
11-10-2019, 01:08 PM
Ishikawa is fantastically lucky .....
D.N. leaves Austria ...
Ishikawa - nr. 4 ....

CNT playing 4d chess. They want Ishikawa to get the 2. singles spot on JNT, because they dont see her as a threat

Imaging CNT players let her go through on purpose!

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 01:12 PM
CNT playing 4d chess. They want Ishikawa to get the 2. singles spot on JNT, because they dont see her as a threat

Imaging CNT players let her go through on purpose!

This is quite possible .... Of course, CNT is interested in Ishikawa attending the Olympics ......

Tempest/Comet
11-10-2019, 01:13 PM
I also do not see for her the opportunity to avoid 11th place in the ITTF rating for December ...
The most important question is can Hirano out score Ishikawa in Austria, T2Singapore & WTGF, and ONLY Ishikawa. The focus is when JAN 2020 comes, would Hirano or Ishikawa has the higher Best 8 points total. Where Ishikawa stands with the rest of the world on Jan 6 is a moot point.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-10-2019, 01:35 PM
Please retire SENPAI

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 01:42 PM
The most important question is can Hirano out score Ishikawa in Austria, T2Singapore & WTGF, and ONLY Ishikawa. The focus is when JAN 2020 comes, would Hirano or Ishikawa has the higher Best 8 points total. Where Ishikawa stands with the rest of the world on Jan 6 is a moot point.

So far it looks like this: (attention! Possible errors in the preliminary calculations!)

10- Hirano 11375(11/2019) min8/1020 (-1350/900res*) = 10925 + Aus/ + T2/ + Markham + Grand...

11- Ishikawa 11805(11/2019) min8/1170 (-1260/900res,1500/900res) = 10845 + Aus/ + T2/ + Markham + Grand...


(It should be noted that the results of the Grand Final last year will necessarily be replaced by the results of the current Global Fund or, if this year the results will be small, points from the reserve ..) ...

Tempest/Comet
11-10-2019, 02:03 PM
Why the calculations for the Race to Jan 6 2020? Today it’s Hirano 10295, Ishikawa 10230 (Team World Cup didn’t do anything to affect the points), add to this Austria, T2, WTGF to see who is ahead, no subtractions/deductions needed, no reserves are valid for Jan 6 anyway.
As for Markham, I don’t think they should go, getting tired before WTGF (lots of points) is bad, and either one MUST win first place to improve their Best 8, not very likely if China is sending 12 women and there will be Hayata, Kato etc too. Ishikawa is not that good.

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 02:23 PM
Please retire SENPAI

(Poll from Zeio ... Support!)

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgyHiX2H09GaauEYE3B4AaABCQ

zeio
11-10-2019, 05:10 PM
Please retire SENPAI
https://i.imgur.com/jUw47bZ.gif

zeio
11-10-2019, 05:20 PM
...My point is, that Ishikawa cant play doubles if JNT want to compete with CNT. And its not that her singles chances are much higher too.

If Ito / Hirano / Ishikawa play at the olympics they finish 2. or 3. 99%, but will lose to CNT. If JNT puts their main emphasis on doubles there might be a slightly higher chance of failure against teams that are not CNT, but they might have a 10% chance of beating CNT.


i totally agree with you, and I have been saying that for a while as well

For future boasting, in the most remote case that it happens...

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=81397&PID=1012801&title=alljapan-table-tennis-championships-2018-115-21#1012801
https://i.imgur.com/i1Rv2a2.png
https://i.imgur.com/SZS079f.png

Sali
11-10-2019, 05:39 PM
Well after watching Hirano vs LSW I do not see her as a threat for top chinese player. She has been dominated all the way. And I do not see her as great doubles player. Ito is much better but she has to play singles.
And I do not understand why all of you keep asking Ishikawa to retire.
In fact it is very easy, if she is just that bad JTTA should get rid of her the same they did to matsudaira and others.

zeio
11-10-2019, 05:57 PM
Ito widens the gap by 120pts after Team World Cup.

https://i.imgur.com/gDOlNrU.png
https://i.imgur.com/Gf8HZMg.png

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 06:07 PM
Well after watching Hirano vs LSW I do not see her as a threat for top chinese player. She has been dominated all the way. And I do not see her as great doubles player. Ito is much better but she has to play singles.
And I do not understand why all of you keep asking Ishikawa to retire.
In fact it is very easy, if she is just that bad JTTA should get rid of her the same they did to matsudaira and others.

How do you feel about replacing Ishikawa with Hayata?
Of course, a pair of Hirano-Hayata ....
Why is even in Austria a pair of Ishikawa-Hirano declared? Doesn’t JNT understand that this pair is unpromising?

Sali
11-10-2019, 06:28 PM
How do you feel about replacing Ishikawa with Hayata?
Of course, a pair of Hirano-Hayata ....
Why is even in Austria a pair of Ishikawa-Hirano declared? Doesn’t JNT understand that this pair is unpromising?
I do not like hayata style and I do not see so much potential like others. She is working hard but the versatility and changing patterns are not her advantages.
For Ishikawa next year olympics is probably the last while hayata, Hirano and Ito are at the begining of career.
Ishikawa is not that bad in doubles she proved it pairing with yoshimura with very good results. She is just not pairing well with Hirano with all that smiles and random skills (sometimes she makes perfect shots and placement and sometimes I cannot understand how she can make do easy mistakes).
I think if they work more on doubles maybe they can find some way to overcome China but I do not think changing Ishikawa to hayata make big difference, can be their progress to the final is not guaranteed. Korea showed potential.

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 06:39 PM
Of course, you have the right to have an opinion, including on Hayat’s playing style ....
But have you looked at the statistics? How many Ishikawa-Hirano are already training, how many games have they played in tournaments, what are the results of these games?
If I’m not mistaken, the Hirano-Hayata couple took part in tournaments only two times ...
I don’t remember the details, but they certainly played no worse than Ishikawa-Hirano ....

As for the comparison of Ishikawa and Hirano in singles .....Of course, this is only my personal opinion, but now Hayata is not better in terms of power, but not worse than Ishikawa ...But of course Ishikawa has much more experience participating in major important tournaments ....

Nevertheless ... You yourself cite Korea, Shin Yubin as an example ....The Koreans took a chance - and it turned out very successfully ....

Vlad Celler
11-10-2019, 06:47 PM
By the way, qualification grid published in Austria Open

http://results.ittf.bornan.net/ittf-web-results/html/TTE5012/results.html#/knock-outs

Kato - no chinese .... Hayata (nr.65)- in R-32 vs LIU Weichan:(
(http://results.ittf.bornan.net/ittf-web-results/html/TTE5012/results.html#/knock-outs)

zeio
11-10-2019, 07:10 PM
Of course, you have the right to have an opinion, including on Hayat’s playing style ....
But have you looked at the statistics? How many Ishikawa-Hirano are already training, how many games have they played in tournaments, what are the results of these games?
If I’m not mistaken, the Hirano-Hayata couple took part in tournaments only two times ...
I don’t remember the details, but they certainly played no worse than Ishikawa-Hirano ....

As for the comparison of Ishikawa and Hirano in singles .....Of course, this is only my personal opinion, but now Hayata is not better in terms of power, but not worse than Ishikawa ...But of course Ishikawa has much more experience participating in major important tournaments ....

Nevertheless ... You yourself cite Korea, Shin Yubin as an example ....The Koreans took a chance - and it turned out very successfully ....

Woah, Vlad Celler is a man of few words. It's so rare to see him make a strong statement.

https://i.imgur.com/nkQclC6.jpg

The poll says it all. As much as I urge Ishikawa to retire, Hayata's biggest chance of making the Olympic team is as the reserve player.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj_L155vUlT9r3u1hKE-hMw/community?lb=UgyHiX2H09GaauEYE3B4AaABCQ
https://i.imgur.com/NwV5Dpw.png
https://i.imgur.com/hoxcD3m.png


By the way, qualification grid published in Austria Open

http://results.ittf.bornan.net/ittf-web-results/html/TTE5012/results.html#/knock-outs

Kato - no chinese .... Hayata (nr.65)- in R-32 vs LIU Weichan:(
(http://results.ittf.bornan.net/ittf-web-results/html/TTE5012/results.html#/knock-outs)

On the flip side, Hayata gets another chance to raise her kill count. :p

karupinkun
11-10-2019, 08:07 PM
I guess with Hayata´s luck its an ok draw to get just one chinese player in the qualification. At Czech Open Lui Weishan manhandled Kato (and was 3-0 in front against Hirano), so she is no walkover by any means. I expact an close 50%-50% game

Sali
11-10-2019, 09:26 PM
Of course, you have the right to have an opinion, including on Hayat’s playing style ....
But have you looked at the statistics? How many Ishikawa-Hirano are already training, how many games have they played in tournaments, what are the results of these games?
If I’m not mistaken, the Hirano-Hayata couple took part in tournaments only two times ...
I don’t remember the details, but they certainly played no worse than Ishikawa-Hirano ....

As for the comparison of Ishikawa and Hirano in singles .....Of course, this is only my personal opinion, but now Hayata is not better in terms of power, but not worse than Ishikawa ...But of course Ishikawa has much more experience participating in major important tournaments ....

Nevertheless ... You yourself cite Korea, Shin Yubin as an example ....The Koreans took a chance - and it turned out very successfully ....
Valuable points. In fact hayata had chances and still have to prove she can beat top chinese players. When it happens I will be the first one to vote for her.
Untill then I choose experience.

karupinkun
11-10-2019, 10:10 PM
you choose experience which doesnt produce results anyway. good one

If you think that way it would be more valuable to give the young guns opportunities, so they can grow further with the helpful experiences and not use older players, which have shown that they cant get to the next level of play

NextLevel
11-11-2019, 02:18 AM
Valuable points. In fact hayata had chances and still have to prove she can beat top chinese players. When it happens I will be the first one to vote for her.
Untill then I choose experience.

Don't post after drinking.

NextLevel
11-11-2019, 02:22 AM
On the Hayata issue, I actually think the best bet for Japan is to play Ito and Hayata in doubles and then give Hirano or Ishikawa or even anyone else the two singles spot. Remember, the key is to win 3 matches not to have your best player play two singles. The Ito-Hayata combo is the best bet for 3 wins. But it will not be easy to get this formation given how Japan has approached the team selection.

zeio
11-11-2019, 07:50 AM
On the Hayata issue, I actually think the best bet for Japan is to play Ito and Hayata in doubles and then give Hirano or Ishikawa or even anyone else the two singles spot. Remember, the key is to win 3 matches not to have your best player play two singles. The Ito-Hayata combo is the best bet for 3 wins. But it will not be easy to get this formation given how Japan has approached the team selection.

Theoretically, Ito and Hayata could play in both the doubles and singles, plus Hirano for another singles. Just like what CNT did in the final.

Either win 3-0 or lose 0-3. Like how Sweden did it in '89. Better than going in with a "I'll try to take 1 match" attitude.

karupinkun
11-11-2019, 07:54 AM
On the Hayata issue, I actually think the best bet for Japan is to play Ito and Hayata in doubles and then give Hirano or Ishikawa or even anyone else the two singles spot. Remember, the key is to win 3 matches not to have your best player play two singles. The Ito-Hayata combo is the best bet for 3 wins. But it will not be easy to get this formation given how Japan has approached the team selection.

I had the same thought as you, that it might be the best idea to field Ito and Hayata in doubles together. Right now with Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano its clear who is gonna play doubles and singles. With Ito, Hirano and Hayata JNT would have some flexibility and can decide the lineup based on the performance at the olympic singles and MX. For exemple if Ito will win gold and beat 2 chinese players, then field her for two singles. If she loses 0-4 without chances, then put her in doubles and hope for the best.

zeio
11-11-2019, 08:00 AM
Even after all these years, Ishikawa looked shaky in the match against Romania. I mean...

In the match against South Korea, she was absolutely useless. Even she admitted she played worse in the SF in the post-match interview after the final.

Tempest/Comet
11-12-2019, 12:39 PM
日本で10日に行われた卓球ワールドカップ団体戦の女子決勝で、石川佳純選手、平野美宇選手、伊藤美誠選手、佐藤瞳選手の日本代表は中国に0−3で完敗して準優勝に終わり、中国が大会9連覇を果たした。中国メディア・東方網は10日、中国の専門家が「日本の弱点は石川だ」との見方を示したと報じた。

 記事は、決勝第1試合のダブルスで中国の劉詩ブン(雨かんむりに文)・陳夢組が日本の石川・平野組に11−7、11−9、12−10のストレートで降し、第2試合の孫穎莎—伊藤、第3試合の劉—平野へと勢いを作ったことを紹介。その際に、中国中央テレビ(CCTV)での生中継でゲスト出演していた卓球専門家の林強氏が「現在の日本女子卓球最大の弱点は、石川。シングルスでもダブルスそうだ」と語ったことを伝えた。

 そして、石川選手はペアを組んだ平野選手のスピードに完全に追い付けず、ラリーが続く中で石川選手の順番になると速度が落ちてしまい、何とかリズムを作ろうとする平野選手のミスを誘発してしまったという林氏の解説を紹介している。

 林氏によれば、日本が本当に中国と対抗したいのであれば、石川選手に代えて早田ひな選手を起用し、2000年生まれの3人で臨むべきだという。

 記事は、石川選手がまだ26歳であるとしたうえで「専門家から19歳の平野のスピードに明らかについて行けないという指摘が出るということは、現代の卓球が実に目まぐるしく発展しているかということの表れなのだ」と評している。
https://news.biglobe.ne.jp/international/1111/scn_191111_7243163324.html

The Japanese media is openly calling for Ishikawa’s replacement. Citing her age/stamina differential to Hirano’s, and claiming she is slowing Hirano down and upsetting the play rhythms, plus not able to keep up with speeds.
Outright, they say the three yr 2000 girls should constitute the JNT contingent, and Hayata should take the Team spot.
Quoting CNT that “Ishikawa is the weakest link...”

Vlad Celler
11-12-2019, 12:56 PM
日本で10日に行われた卓球ワールドカップ団体戦の女子決勝で、石川佳純選手、平野美宇選手、伊藤美誠選手、佐藤瞳選手の日本代表は中国に0−3で完敗して準優勝に終わり、中国が大会9連覇を果たした。中国メディア・東方網は10日、中国の専門家が「日本の弱点は石川だ」との見方を示したと報じた。

 記事は、決勝第1試合のダブルスで中国の劉詩ブン(雨かんむりに文)・陳夢組が日本の石川・平野組に11−7、11−9、12−10のストレートで降し、第2試合の孫穎莎—伊藤、第3試合の劉—平野へと勢いを作ったことを紹介。その際に、中国中央テレビ(CCTV)での生中継でゲスト出演していた卓球専門家の林強氏が「現在の日本女子卓球最大の弱点は、石川。シングルスでもダブルスそうだ」と語ったことを伝えた。

 そして、石川選手はペアを組んだ平野選手のスピードに完全に追い付けず、ラリーが続く中で石川選手の順番になると速度が落ちてしまい、何とかリズムを作ろうとする平野選手のミスを誘発してしまったという林氏の解説を紹介している。

 林氏によれば、日本が本当に中国と対抗したいのであれば、石川選手に代えて早田ひな選手を起用し、2000年生まれの3人で臨むべきだという。

 記事は、石川選手がまだ26歳であるとしたうえで「専門家から19歳の平野のスピードに明らかについて行けないという指摘が出るということは、現代の卓球が実に目まぐるしく発展しているかということの表れなのだ」と評している。
https://news.biglobe.ne.jp/international/1111/scn_191111_7243163324.html

The Japanese media is openly calling for Ishikawa’s replacement. Citing her age/stamina differential to Hirano’s, and claiming she is slowing Hirano down and upsetting the play rhythms, plus not able to keep up with speeds.
Outright, they say the three yr 2000 girls should constitute the JNT contingent, and Hayata should take the Team spot.
Quoting CNT that “Ishikawa is the weakest link...”

Thank you, very interesting and important information ....
(JNT! Well, look at Korea! They were not afraid to put 15-year-old Shin Yubin for the decisive match! And that turned out to be very good! ...Why don’t you want to risk it .....)

zeio
11-12-2019, 01:47 PM
That piece is referring to the comment made by color commentator Lin Qiang during the final on CCTV5.

Vlad Celler
11-12-2019, 02:44 PM
Hina Hayata......

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=505109857000405 (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=505109857000405)

zeio
11-16-2019, 04:58 PM
With this win, Niwa is now 285 pts behind Mizutani.
If he reaches QF, the gap will be down to 60 pts only.
On top of that, there's still the MWC for Niwa.

https://i.imgur.com/ZTnMev5.jpg


Niwa: Goodbye fist to my sempai.
https://i.imgur.com/2o2mhmP.jpg
N̶i̶w̶a̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶2̶8̶0̶ ̶p̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶s̶ ̶p̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶C̶a̶l̶d̶e̶r̶a̶n̶o̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ Pressure on Mizutani to perform in T2.

https://i.imgur.com/iGQdXDl.jpg

zeio
11-16-2019, 06:20 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Dfw40oH.jpg

4:8, 8:8, 8:11. Hayata started slow, looking a bit tight. When was the last time she reached the QF of a Platinum event, starting from the prelim?

2:0, 2:5, 3:5, 3:6, 4:6, 4:7, 5:7, 5:8, 6:8, 8:8, 10:8, 10:11, 11:11, 11:12, 12:12, 12:13, 13:13, 14:13, 14:14, 15:14, 15:15, 15:16, 15:17.
QTY hitting where it hurts, cutting the rally short. Hayata adapted in time and started cranking up her output, but still came up short in the endgame.

1:1, 1:5, 2:5, 3:6, 3:7, 5:7, 6:7, TO for QTY, 6:8, 10:8, 10:9, 11:9.
Hayata can't keep up in BH rallies, not in pace or quality but in placement and variation. She's reacting to QTY, not reading ahead.

2:0, 2:3, 3:3, 3:4, 4:4, 4:5, 5:5, 8:5, 8:6, 11:6.
It's clear QTY is trying to suppress Hayata's FH. QTY has some trouble receiving Hayata's hook serve. Hayata's getting around it midway thru by revving up the engine.

1:0, 1:4, 3:4, 3:7, 4:7, 4:8, 6:8, 6:9, 7:9, 7:11.
Hayata is pushing her BH timing. Errors creeping up. 2 edges for QTY.

0:3, TO for Hayata, 0:5, 3:5, 3:8, 3:9(back edge), 3:11.
Hayata's focus is gone.

Yet again, Hayata either wins or loses by taking at least 2 games. Aside from luck, she needs to work on the endgame. Ishida is to blame as well. Should've called TO in G2 when Hayata had game point.

https://i.imgur.com/qJq2xSt.jpg

Vlad Celler
11-16-2019, 06:39 PM
In any case, Hayata fights, does not give up ....
Even if she loses, all the same, very good results lately .....

Kato rating for December 2019 - 7545

Despite the fact that Hayata had deductions of old bonuses for November 2018 were 1125 + 900 = (- 2025), she, even if she loses now, will practically maintain her November rating .....7520..

I see how Hayata is tired .... If only she had enough physical strength ..... She has enough will to win ....


This is fatigue, fatigue .... Well seen .....

zeio
11-16-2019, 07:14 PM
After Austrian Open, Hayata's record against the CNT this year is 10W6L, the best among JNT members.

For the time being, she's moved up to 5th place, displacing Sato, but is still 25 pts behind Kato and the only event left for her and Kato is the North American Open.

Sali
11-16-2019, 07:21 PM
I think JTTA should postpone taking decision. Seems most of japanese girls made important progress. Especially hayata. But Ishikawa did really good job against Wang Yidi (probably the winner of Austria).
The thing is who can keep top level for longer time and find the best rythem for olympics.
They could wait untill end of march which can give better rating for lower players like hayata, Kato and others. Then they should take top 3.

Vlad Celler
11-16-2019, 07:23 PM
We will still hope for TOP-12 ..... It is curious that either Hirano or Ishikawa will have to play the preliminary qualification ....Who exactly will be decided in Singapore ....... If I understand correctly, the two highest ITTF ratings in December (namely December) are exempted from the first stage ....Is it Ito and ....?These two will play in the second stage of TOP-12....


So far, a preliminary calculation of the December ITTF rating looks something like this (sorry for possible errors!)
Please note this is not a final rating! The final rating will be after Singapore!

- D.N. 13190+t2/
- WANG Manyu 13175+t2/
- ITO Mima min13105) aus/ +t2/
- Z.Y.L. min13075) aus/ +t2/
- C.I.C. 11280+t2/
- F.T. 11210+t2/
10- Hirano 10925+t2/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11- Ishikawa 10845+t2/

pongfugrasshopper
11-16-2019, 07:33 PM
No disrespect, but Kato and Sato are not in the same league as HH. Look at how they are tracking and their results vs. CNT. I don't see how HH is not top 3 on the JNT. Five tournament wins and a winning record vs. CNT. QTY has to be in great form to take down LSW and HH. I hope Mima can take her down (and whoever wins the other half).

zeio
11-16-2019, 07:33 PM
Hayata and Kato will both have to reach the SF(715) in NA Open to rack up points.

Given all this, the chance is high that Sato, Kato and Hayata will finish 4th, 5th and 6th in the race.

It boils down to the T2(600 for Kato and >=400 for Sato). Pongfugrasshopper must be fuming here.

zeio
11-16-2019, 07:40 PM
No disrespect, but Kato and Sato are not in the same league as HH. Look at how they are tracking and their results vs. CNT. I don't see how HH is not top 3 on the JNT. Four tournament wins and a winning record vs. CNT. QTY has to be in great form to take down LSW and HH. I hope Mima can take her down (and whoever wins the other half).

Make that 5. 3 Challenge Plus and 2 Challenge, in 6 stops, losing in the Polish Open only.

Vlad Celler
11-16-2019, 07:48 PM
Remember that under the new rating rules, points for the Grand Final 2019 are less than last year (except for the finalists ...)
Sato will play in Singapore and the Grand Final .... But Sato may lose points in the Grand Final 2019 ....After all, there will be a replacement of old glasses with new ones (and if new ones are less than the previous ones, replacement from the reserve) ...


Kato has not been officially announced by JNT to Singapore ... Although there is no confirmed list of participants yet? It is interesting, for example, whether injured D.N. will be in Singapore .....

Vlad Celler
11-16-2019, 07:55 PM
In any case, I congratulate Hina Hayata - reaching the quarterfinal of Platinum, gold in the mixed doubles - and wish her good luck!

zeio
11-16-2019, 07:58 PM
Remember that under the new rating rules, points for the Grand Final 2019 are less than last year (except for the finalists ...)
Sato will play in Singapore and the Grand Final .... But Sato may lose points in the Grand Final 2019 ....After all, there will be a replacement of old glasses with new ones (and if new ones are less than the previous ones, replacement from the reserve) ...


Kato has not been officially announced by JNT to Singapore ... Although there is no confirmed list of participants yet? It is interesting, for example, whether injured D.N. will be in Singapore .....

Kato didn't qualify for T2 Singapore. Sato did.

JTTA confirmed the lineup last month.
- http://www.jtta.or.jp/tournament/tabid/125/rptid/522/Default.aspx

The official T2 site has also updated the lineup.
- https://t2diamond.com/players/women-singapore/

Vlad Celler
11-16-2019, 08:16 PM
Thank....
But maybe there will be more changes? Confirmed List?

Will play for example WANG Chuqin ?
And D.N. ?

zeio
11-16-2019, 08:19 PM
Yes, it was confirmed on the 8th. The cutoff date was after the German Open. It's starting next week.
- https://www.weibo.com/t2diamond?is_hot=1#_loginLayer_1573935458544

WCQ won't play as he'll be suspended until next year.

mrk
11-16-2019, 08:47 PM
No disrespect, but Kato and Sato are not in the same league as HH.

This is so true. We need no ranking to see who is the more dangerous player for the chinese opponents. Hayata is much more powerful and taller than her japanese colleagues, she can compete with the chinese style.

zeio
11-16-2019, 09:04 PM
https://i.imgur.com/W9G9yst.png
https://i.imgur.com/j8Lz5LV.png

ZhouZhekai
11-17-2019, 01:16 AM
Koki Niwa and Mizutani Neck to neck. Did not see that coming

Janard
11-17-2019, 11:33 AM
20127

Seems like it's official that Ito has been granted a Singles and Team spot for the Olympics?

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 11:43 AM
In any case, in the January ITTF ranking, neither Ishikawa nor Hirano can even theoretically rise above her ....

zeio
11-17-2019, 12:03 PM
They waited for the Austrian Open to settle since:

Hirano will now have to win the rest - T2(1000), NA Open(1100) and WTGF(2550) to even stand a chance of being 420 pts ahead of Ito.

Ishikawa won't even come close winning all of the above.

zeio
11-17-2019, 04:05 PM
Doesn't look good for ZYL. Couldn't get past the 3rd ball consistently. Getting whacked hard.

https://i.imgur.com/nfRqQuE.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J9pC2Gh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nXfs2f8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/C9SzUOc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a0IND7B.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YrOPxLV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fVhS0n7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GdE5uye.jpg

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 04:22 PM
I did not understand to whom and for what the judge showed a yellow card?

NextLevel
11-17-2019, 04:24 PM
Looking good for ZYL. Her anticipation is catching up.

NextLevel
11-17-2019, 04:24 PM
I did not understand to whom and for what the judge showed a yellow card?

ZYL time wasting.

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 04:29 PM
ZYL time wasting.


Thank !

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 04:30 PM
Looking good for ZYL. Her anticipation is catching up.

Yes, while the outcome of the game is completely unclear .....

Janard
11-17-2019, 04:56 PM
To be fair, ZYL did manage to keep Ito at bay quite a number of times but she still doesn't attack enough.

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 05:00 PM
4- ITO Mima 13890+t2
- Z.Y.L. 13610+t2
- D.N. 13190+t2
- WANG Manyu 13175+t2
- C.I.C. 11280+t2
- F.T. 11210+t2
10- Hirano 10925+t2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11- Ishikawa 10845+t2

These are points scored excluding Singapore.
Please note that none of those here below Ito will be able to get around Mima Ito after Singapore, with the exception of Z.Y.L ....
(If ZYL in Singapore scores 300 points more than Ito ...)

zeio
11-17-2019, 05:11 PM
https://i.imgur.com/350JHH3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3J8PWcQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a69Fmm1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sL7pkQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bXDnpuG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/p8Ozsxb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TzJBHoJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gefm6Jy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HkoZNpe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l1Z3HQ5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/R4qgg2K.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iDXvHZ0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ptPnTBR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F21qE71.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FxLQbRZ.jpg

zeio
11-17-2019, 05:16 PM
With the win in Austrian Open, Ito is now 3215 pts ahead of Hirano. She gained 1080 pts in 1 stop. That's outrageous.

https://i.imgur.com/ciARlIJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/j8Lz5LV.png

driversbeat
11-17-2019, 05:19 PM
Adam Bobrow requested a montage of Ito's faces. Send him your screenshots.
Also, imagine if Ito won just one more of the finals she was in. almost 1000 more points wtheck

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 05:25 PM
Adam Bobrow requested a montage of Ito's faces. Send him your screenshots.
Also, imagine if Ito won just one more of the finals she was in. almost 1000 more points wtheck

Ito this month has a deduction of old points for November 2018 .... 1800 points ..... And nevertheless! She in the December ITTF ranking will be either fourth, or in extreme cases fifth (after Singapore) ....

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-17-2019, 05:26 PM
Mima is the best !!!! and her game is so fun to watch !!! thank you Mima ! BANZAI !!!!!

phorkyas
11-17-2019, 05:28 PM
https://i.imgur.com/350JHH3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3J8PWcQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/a69Fmm1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sL7pkQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bXDnpuG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/p8Ozsxb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TzJBHoJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gefm6Jy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HkoZNpe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/l1Z3HQ5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/R4qgg2K.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iDXvHZ0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ptPnTBR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F21qE71.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FxLQbRZ.jpgThey really printed "2st place" on that plate, did they?

Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk

Vlad Celler
11-17-2019, 05:36 PM
Mima is the best !!!! and her game is so fun to watch !!! thank you Mima ! BANZAI !!!!!

美馬さん ありがとうございます

NextLevel
11-17-2019, 05:38 PM
Ito just helped Sun Yingsha's chances of getting an Olympics singles spot, though the next few months are critical for Ding Ning and LSW of course.

zeio
11-17-2019, 05:41 PM
Career defining and ending matchups.

Jacky Kwok
11-17-2019, 06:05 PM
They really printed "2st place" on that plate, did they?

Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk

https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/large/007uCPrEgy1g91j4mls20j31860pekjl.jpg

I didn’t notice that until you mentioned.

Brs
11-17-2019, 07:32 PM
https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/large/007uCPrEgy1g91j4mls20j31860pekjl.jpg

I didn’t notice that until you mentioned.

ZYL tossed her flowers to a girl in the stands on the way out. God only knows what she did to the plate.

zeio
11-19-2019, 07:03 AM
"Tokyo will be my stage"
"That day I'll never forget"
"I will not yield"
"Number of survivors - 2"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deuw6NggL3Y

zeio
11-19-2019, 08:00 AM
Mizutani has pulled out of the NA Open, most likely because Niwa has missed out on the WTGF.

It will come down to:
T2 and WTGF for Mizutani;
World Cup and NA Open for Niwa.

Niwa will have a harder time, because of the bonus points for Mizutani. Ideally, he'll want to finish 4th in the World Cup since he'll have to reach the final of NA Open to gain points. And if he crashes out in R16 at the World Cup, he'll have to win the NA Open, assuming Mizutani will crash out in R16 of T2 and R16 of WTGF. If Mizutani finishes higher in either one, Niwa will be out.

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 08:49 AM
https://www.facebook.com/1760511517525306/videos/782412335557303/

"Golden" post-match interview with Hayata and Harimoto .....
It is a pity that there is no translation into English ...

Janard
11-19-2019, 09:40 AM
Mizutani has pulled out of the NA Open, most likely because Niwa has missed out on the WTGF.

It will come down to:
T2 and WTGF for Mizutani;
World Cup and NA Open for Niwa.

Niwa will have a harder time, because of the bonus points for Mizutani. Ideally, he'll want to finish 4th in the World Cup since he'll have to reach the final of NA Open to gain points. And if he crashes out in R16 at the World Cup, he'll have to win the NA Open, assuming Mizutani will crash out in R16 of T2 and R16 of WTGF. If Mizutani finishes higher in either one, Niwa will be out.

Well, Niwa just got into T2 after ML, FZD and WCQ's absence.

Jacky Kwok
11-19-2019, 10:44 AM
Bad news for Mizutani.

zeio
11-19-2019, 10:52 AM
Well, Niwa just got into T2 after ML, FZD and WCQ's absence.

Niwa: I could use a hand.
CNT: Here, I'll give you a BIG push.

apacible
11-19-2019, 11:31 AM
Ma Long and Fan Zhendong Not Playing T2 was probably pre-planned. After all, they need to prepare for the Men's World Cup next week. Niwa still wouldn't have gotten a spot, but because of WCQ's suspension, Niwa managed to squeeze in and get the last spot. In his mind, Mizutani's probably throwing an imaginary racket at WCQ right now.

On the women's side, only LSW withdrew, so it's not enough to get Ishikawa a top 8 seed. This only helps Hirano because she has one less CNT player to worry about drawing in the first round since Wang Yidi moves to a top 8 seed. First, LSW lost to Qian Tianyi when Hirano was in the same quarter as her in the Austrian Open. Then, she withdrew from T2, which ended up giving Hirano better draw odds. LSW certainly knows how to give back to her biggest fan. :p

Janard
11-19-2019, 12:51 PM
https://i.ibb.co/kQgrCbt/72677321-3324300094279377-6314699946394124288-o.jpg

Hirano: Arigato minna-san!

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 12:55 PM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ibb.co%2FkQgrCbt%2F72677321-3324300094279377-6314699946394124288-o.jpg

Hirano: Arigato minna-san!


Thank !

....Hirano: Arigato minna-san!....:o

Janard
11-19-2019, 01:02 PM
Thank !

....Hirano: Arigato minna-san!....:o

But Ishikawa is a teammate killer too so you never know. Jitters on CM's side too, she will probably win FTW but the thought of having to face Ito potentially might unnerve her. Meanwhile, CIC and YMY have probably resigned themselves to gaining only 400 points from this tournament. I actually hope WMY can defeat ZYL but the latter is honestly the most hardcore teammate killer ever – just look at how ZYL started off against GYT (11-5) and WYD (11-8) versus how she fared against Ito (-5,11) and Kihara (-3,11) last week.

zeio
11-19-2019, 01:05 PM
https://i.imgur.com/iDXvHZ0.jpg

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 01:08 PM
Yes .... It will be interesting ....
Ishikawa is of course more difficult ... She has more chances to get into the preliminary selection of TOP-12 than Hirano .....And there, Hayata, Kihara, Kato .......:(


I still hope that Ito will score at least 500 points ....Then Z.Y.L., to rise above Ito in the December ranking (nr 4), you will need to score at least 800 points ...That is the finale ......

zeio
11-19-2019, 01:16 PM
Ishikawa will have to play the 1st stage of Japan Top 12 next year if she finishes outside the top 2.

TV Tokyo 神預測!

https://youtu.be/deuw6NggL3Y?t=64

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 01:19 PM
Ishikawa will have to play the 1st stage of Japan Top 12 next year if she finishes outside the top 2.

TV Tokyo 神預測!

https://youtu.be/deuw6NggL3Y?t=64

That's right .... And there Hayata, Kihara, Nagasaki, Kato ......

apacible
11-19-2019, 01:42 PM
But Ishikawa is a teammate killer too so you never know. Jitters on CM's side too, she will probably win FTW but the thought of having to face Ito potentially might unnerve her. Meanwhile, CIC and YMY have probably resigned themselves to gaining only 400 points from this tournament. I actually hope WMY can defeat ZYL but the latter is honestly the most hardcore teammate killer ever – just look at how ZYL started off against GYT (11-5) and WYD (11-8) versus how she fared against Ito (-5,11) and Kihara (-3,11) last week.

Ishikawa is not only a teammate killer but loves to rain on her teammates' parades, especially after they have big tournaments.
In 2017, the tournament after Hirano's run at the Asian Championships was the Korean Open and Ishikawa destroyed Hirano 4-0
In 2018, the tournament after Ito's run at the Japan Open was the Korean Open and Ishikawa destroyed Ito 4-0.
In 2019, can Ishikawa keep the trend going as she faces Ito again after she had just won in Austria?

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 01:50 PM
In any case, Ishikawa has a very, very strong motivation ......:o
But also Z.Y.L. motivation was no less ....Yes, and Qian, in an interview after defeating Hayata, was eager to meet with Ito .......:)

zeio
11-19-2019, 02:23 PM
Ishikawa will be motivated af since WYD sux against choppers. She'll go all in.

NextLevel
11-19-2019, 02:36 PM
Ishikawa will be motivated af since WYD sux against choppers. She'll go all in.

How much you want to bet that Wang Yidi will fix that chopper issue before this match?

NextLevel
11-19-2019, 02:38 PM
But Ishikawa is a teammate killer too so you never know. Jitters on CM's side too, she will probably win FTW but the thought of having to face Ito potentially might unnerve her. Meanwhile, CIC and YMY have probably resigned themselves to gaining only 400 points from this tournament. I actually hope WMY can defeat ZYL but the latter is honestly the most hardcore teammate killer ever – just look at how ZYL started off against GYT (11-5) and WYD (11-8) versus how she fared against Ito (-5,11) and Kihara (-3,11) last week.

She will not be thinking about Ito now. Unless Wang Yidi performs her usual chopper capitulation, Ito still has to get past her as well.

zeio
11-19-2019, 02:48 PM
How much you want to bet that Wang Yidi will fix that chopper issue before this match?

She has never lost to Sato since 2018. Her only defeat was German Open 2017, where Sato won 4-2.

Vlad Celler
11-19-2019, 03:13 PM
Well, then the chances of them (Sato and Yidi) are fifty by fifty .....

:)

zeio
11-20-2019, 07:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raR-lNYS95w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1NZWcK6h_Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJaPdfbQn30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdOcFz9_JUc

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-22-2019, 12:54 PM
Assuming Hirano wins against Jeon Jihee and loses next round to Chen Meng

what are the scenarios in Grand Finals for our idol to top Hirano at the last hurdle ?

Vlad Celler
11-22-2019, 01:03 PM
Assuming Hirano wins against Jeon Jihee and loses next round to Chen Meng

what are the scenarios in Grand Finals for our idol to top Hirano at the last hurdle ?

Suppose ..... Hirano wins today, tomorrow loses ....
10925+500=11425

Ishikawa - 10845+400=11245

Grand Final - replacing the results of 2018 with the new results of 2019 (if new ones are higher), or at least 1020 ..
Ishikawa 1785 GF-2018
Hirano 1530 GF-2018


Participation in Markham does not make sense for Ishikawa and Hirano ......

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-22-2019, 01:30 PM
well it was a stupid question to ask, Miu Hirano lost to Jeon Jihee....

Vlad Celler
11-22-2019, 01:31 PM
No comment.....:(
(I mean losing Hirano ....)

Regarding the Grand Final .. Theoretically, Hirano has a chance to retain an advantage .....She seeding above ... If both lose in the first round, Hirano will lose fewer points ...

karupinkun
11-22-2019, 01:32 PM
The last couple of months its no race anymore. Its lame ducks going next to each other

zeio
11-22-2019, 01:43 PM
Hirano and Ishikawa are so courteous to each other.

It'll come down to the NA Open and WTGF. Both of them will have to win(1100 pts) at the NA Open to gain points.

This is what you get for playing 19+2 and 18+2 events non-stop.

Vlad Celler
11-22-2019, 02:40 PM
Hirano and Ishikawa are so courteous to each other.

It'll come down to the NA Open and WTGF. Both of them will have to win(1100 pts) at the NA Open to gain points.

This is what you get for playing 19+2 and 18+2 events non-stop.

Right....
Ishikawa and Hirano will have a minimum 8th result in the December ITTF ranking - 900 points ....Victory can bring plus 200 points ....But only victory (finalist gets 880)

zeio
11-24-2019, 03:05 PM
https://i.imgur.com/tYyaA37.png
https://i.imgur.com/LURuu2P.png

Vlad Celler
11-24-2019, 03:29 PM
Preliminary calculation of the December rating of the ITTF (WS) (attention! possible inaccuracies!)

1- C.M. 16565 gf-2018/2550
S.Y.S. 15715 gf-2018/1530
L.S.W. 14955 gf-2018/1785
4- ITO Mima 14690 gf-2018/1530
- Z.Y.L. 14010 gf-2018//2040
- WANG Manyu 13875 gf-2018/1785
- D.N. 13690 gf-2018/2040
- C.I.C. 11680 gf-2018/1785
- F.T. 11610 gf-2018/1530
10-Hirano 11325 NA gf-2018/1530
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11-Ishikawa 11245 NA gf-2018/1785


17-SATO Hitomi 8805 NA gf-2018/1530


23-KATO Miyu 7545 NA
24-HAYATA Hina 7520 NA

(theoretically, Ito Mima has certain chances to become No. 3 in the January ranking, bypassing LSW ...Ito seeding second, and the LSW is much lower in GF-2019.....)

apacible
11-24-2019, 05:41 PM
With only 3 tournaments left until the singles spots are decided, here's a breakdown of the possible scenarios:

Women's Race
For Ishikawa to get a singles spot she either needs to win the North American Open or advance 1 round further than Hirano in the WTGF. In either case, she will need to beat at least 1 Chinese player or Ito before the year ends to qualify for singles. The North American Open has too many Chinese players that it will be impossible to win the tournament without beating at least one. In the WTGF, Ishikawa has an 87.5% chance of drawing a Chinese player in the first round while the other 12.5% is drawing Ito. In either case, she will be the underdog whoever she faces in the first round.

Men's Race
Because Niwa qualified for T2 Singapore and was able to get bonus points, he's now in the driver's seat to get the 2nd singles spot. While he's currently behind Mizutani by 60 points, he'll overtake Mizutani after the Men's World Cup even if he loses in the first round because he's guaranteed 1020 points. Because Mizutani withdrew from the North American Open, Mizutani only has the WTGF to gain points over Niwa, and Mizutani needs to reach at least the QF to do so.

However, there's more bad news for Mizutani since Wong Chun Ting got injured in T2 and there's a good chance that his injury is serious enough that he'll miss the WTGF. If that happens, Niwa will take WCT's place in the WTGF, which forces Mizutani to reach at least the SF to get the 2nd singles spot. Mizutani, like Ishikawa, is an underdog in any possible first-round matchup in the WTGF. If you add the fact that Niwa has a decent chance of making the QF in the Men's World Cup, which would force Mizutani to make the final of the WTGF to qualify, Mizutani's chances in playing singles in the Olympics look dimmer than Ishikawa's.

Mixed Doubles
Based on this year's results, there seem to be only 3 viable pairs to send to the Olympics, but the problem is that each pair has at least one player not guaranteed to make the Olympic team:


Ito/Mizutani (Mizutani not guaranteed an Olympic spot)
Hayata/Harimoto (Hayata not guaranteed an Olympic spot)
Ishikawa/Yoshimura (Neither are guaranteed an Olympic spot)

It's highly likely that Japan will put a strong emphasis on doubles WR since acquiring a medal is highly dependent on avoiding the Chinese pair early on. Japan wants to have at least a Top 4 seed for Mixed Doubles. Because of this, JTTA would want to send Ito/Mizutani, but as I outlined earlier, Niwa is in a strong position to take the 2nd singles spot. If Mizutani is given the 3rd spot, the Men's Team will have no suitable doubles combination, so JTTA will likely have to sacrifice one event to medal in the other.

If Yoshimura is selected over Mizutani for the 3rd spot to ensure a workable doubles pairing for the Men's team event, Japan can choose from Hayata/Harimoto or Ishikawa/Yoshimura. The problem with Ishikawa/Yoshimura is that while they have won 3 medals in the WTTC, the pairing has performed badly in the 2018 World Tour. Because of this, they practically discontinued the pairing in 2019, so Ishikawa/Yoshimura only has 2 of 8 tournaments in their best 8 results: a finals appearance in the WTTC and a first-round exit in the Korean Open. It will be hard for them to get a top 4 seed, which will hamper their chances at medals in the Olympics.

Hayata/Harimoto has a better doubles WR because of better results on the World Tour, so it will be easier for this pair to get good seeding in time for the Olympics. The main concerns with this pairing are experience and consistency. There is no doubt that the Hayata/Harimoto pairing has a high ceiling when playing well since they beat Ito/Mizutani and 2 Chinese pairs consisting of core team players. However, they've also had close calls against XD pairs from other countries like HK, Germany, France, and Korea, so the pairing is also highly upset-prone.

We're approaching the end of the year and we're getting a better idea of who's likely to get the singles spots. Still, it only takes one big tournament to change the outcome, so I'll be closely following the rest of the year's tournaments.

Vlad Celler
11-24-2019, 06:31 PM
Thank you very much, very detailed analysis ....

Your opinion is interesting, what are the chances of Ishikawa (or Hirano) to win in the TOP-12? (Of course, Ito does not count ...)
TOP-12 - December 21-22 .....


Grand Final 2019 - pay attention .....The new ITTF ranking system sharply reduced the points earned ....I believe there will be a mandatory replacement of last year’s results with the results of this year ...Minimum - 1020, defeat in the first round ....
For example, in order for Ishikawa not to lose points, she needs to score 1800 points, and this is the finalist .....Hirano and Ito are enough to get into the semifinals (1530 old - 1660 new) .....
Given that on the preliminary list, the entire Chinese female top 8....:(If China does not change its composition upon confirmation, then Ishikawa and Hirano with a probability of one hundred percent in the first round will fall to the Chinese top 8 or Ito ......

Sali
11-24-2019, 07:12 PM
I just do not see koki niwa Play singles in olympics. I cannot understand how he can take singles spot having worst year in his career.

NextLevel
11-24-2019, 08:38 PM
I just do not see koki niwa Play singles in olympics. I cannot understand how he can take singles spot having worst year in his career.

Recency.bias. He is a WTTC quarter finalist.

Tempest/Comet
11-24-2019, 08:39 PM
I just do not see koki niwa Play singles in olympics. I cannot understand how he can take singles spot having worst year in his career.
Japan has decreed that the top 2 Japanese in WR on Jan 6 2020 will take the 2 Singles spots (for both Men & Women). The WR is decided by the best 8 results +T2. Niwa certainly has an edge over Mizutani now, (see Apacible above).

Sali
11-24-2019, 08:53 PM
NL: yes but it was quite long ago and from that time he mostly lost every match he player.

T/C: Yes I know what you mean. But do you really think JTTA will choose Niwa over Mizutani?
I think rules can be changed

Tempest/Comet
11-24-2019, 09:43 PM
...Ishikawa and Hirano with a probability of one hundred percent in the first round will fall to the Chinese top 8 or Ito ......

Going into last 2 battles of the race, both Ishikawa & Hirano seem to be on their last gasping breath, fatigued by almost 20 world hopping Tournaments, demoralized by constant losing, and the inability to get ahead of the other, and mentally overloaded with anxiety. They are in the worst possible condition heading into the fateful fight at the WTGF.
I think they should give up Markham :( and rest up for that one final lunge to gain 1 round more than the other. But it’s a ‘chickens’ game, neither wants to withdraw first, to give up the possible edge (of winning the Markham tour). I don’t see that happening at all, both are running out of steam.
This leaves a somewhat hilarious scenario that this Single spot would be decided by the narrowest margin of a 65 points lead by Hirano. Neither of the 2 was able to better the other, with fumbles, missteps, squandered opportunities along the way. This despite Ishikawa miraculously got into the first T2 and 400 pts, but cannot take advantage of it (!).
Not that it matters, looking at their performances lately, either one will be serving up her head on a platter to the Chinese come Tokyo. But their stumbles to get there were both infuriating and entertaining.
In the end, Ito proved herself. Despite fears in the first part of the year that the most deserving one may get short changed because of the Word Cup. It turned out she is indisputably the TOP Japanese, and doesn’t even need the last 3 Tournaments to solidify her position. Good for you Mima !!
This Race was an exercise in futility, with enough twists to make a TV series. Zen out...

Tempest/Comet
11-24-2019, 09:51 PM
T/C: Yes I know what you mean. But do you really think JTTA will choose Niwa over Mizutani?
I think rules can be changed
So sorry Sali-san, but if rules can be changed when they appear to be unfavourable to one, then they’re no longer rules for everyone, isn’t that true ?
It was up front, in no uncertain terms, and transparent. Very fair for all those in the fight, even though the outcome isn’t aligned with popular sentiments. Unfortunately....

Sali
11-24-2019, 10:56 PM
It would be much easier if they take this year points gained. Anyway mizutani skills are much higher then Niwa. He had bad period which could be connected to his private life. Now he seems to be back on form, good match against dima and good start against LGY.
Of course they can choose whoever they like but for mizutani it is definitely his last olympics and he is the best player in Japan considering longer period. In my opinion he deserves single spot.
On the other hand if they choose some youngster like harimoto age to take his place that is ok, but Niwa come on.

NextLevel
11-24-2019, 11:33 PM
NL: yes but it was quite long ago and from that time he mostly lost every match he player.

T/C: Yes I know what you mean. But do you really think JTTA will choose Niwa over Mizutani?
I think rules can be changed

Everyone goes through tough periods. There isn't that much difference between Mizutani and Niwa in big events when both are at their peak. Mizutani is clearly the greater player but Niwa does pretty well. A bad patch cannot be what you look at only when deciding who to play.

Sali
11-25-2019, 07:49 AM
Everyone goes through tough periods. There isn't that much difference between Mizutani and Niwa in big events when both are at their peak. Mizutani is clearly the greater player but Niwa does pretty well. A bad patch cannot be what you look at only when deciding who to play.

There is a big difference between them, just check how many national championships mizutani has and how many Niwa (many times he never advanced to the final or even semis). Take how many ittf cups niwa won and how many mizutani.
The same would be if china takes LGY over Ma long just because he is higher ranked.

zeio
11-25-2019, 10:52 AM
Not really in the race, but Nagasaki just lost to Amy Wang of USA in the JGT QF of the WJTTC.

NextLevel
11-25-2019, 11:40 AM
There is a big difference between them, just check how many national championships mizutani has and how many Niwa (many times he never advanced to the final or even semis). Take how many ittf cups niwa won and how many mizutani.
The same would be if china takes LGY over Ma long just because he is higher ranked.

Well, if you would rather send an injured Ma Long or a blind Mizutani over a healthy Lin Gaoyuan or Koki Niwa, that is your prerogative. My point is that Koki Niwa is an accomplished TT player and there is no point making it sound like he can't play when he goes through bad periods because you want to forget his good periods. In 2016 Olympics, he was eliminated by Zhang Jike and was part of the silver medal winning squad. He has been a quarter finalist at last 2 WTTC which is better than Mizutani. Mizutani is the greater player, but Koki Niwa is not undeserving. That is my point. Ma Long is the greater player, but Xu Xin is not undeserving and if chosen, neither is Lin Gaoyuan. If Mizutani was that much better in this year where Niwa has supposedly played like crap, then why are we having this discussion if Mizutani hasn't played like crap?

karupinkun
11-25-2019, 11:56 AM
There is a big difference between them, just check how many national championships mizutani has and how many Niwa (many times he never advanced to the final or even semis). Take how many ittf cups niwa won and how many mizutani.
The same would be if china takes LGY over Ma long just because he is higher ranked.

If you would hold Ishikawa to the same standards...

Sali
11-25-2019, 12:07 PM
Well, if you would rather send an injured Ma Long or a blind Mizutani over a healthy Lin Gaoyuan or Koki Niwa, that is your prerogative. My point is that Koki Niwa is an accomplished TT player and there is no point making it sound like he can't play when he goes through bad periods because you want to forget his good periods. In 2016 Olympics, he was eliminated by Zhang Jike and was part of the silver medal winning squad. He has been a quarter finalist at last 2 WTTC which is better than Mizutani. Mizutani is the greater player, but Koki Niwa is not undeserving. That is my point. Ma Long is the greater player, but Xu Xin is not undeserving and if chosen, neither is Lin Gaoyuan. If Mizutani was that much better in this year where Niwa has supposedly played like crap, then why are we having this discussion if Mizutani hasn't played like crap?

I think we are not that far from each other. I am not choosing injured or blind players. ML is having big break now probably connected to his injury. But if there was something like in japan (top 2 players from ranking) he might not have enough time to reach top 2. Meaning they will choose XX (well deserved IMO) and FZD - no place for healthy Ma Long (just got cured too late)
I am not underestimating KN - he defeated many top players but he is not improving much to reach Mizutani level. They both have very bad year but I have no doubts Mizutani is better player and have more potential beating top players.
Of course I remember last olympics. Mizutani was in top form. I think if he was in the other half he would beat ZJK (who was not in great form that time) - but this is just my assumption.
Again I choose: experience and skills - which in my opinion makes Mizutani better potential.
Anyway I understand your point, I am not going to die for Mizutani ;)