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Sali
11-25-2019, 11:14 AM
If you would hold Ishikawa to the same standards...
This is totaly different thing.
Both teams Men and Women how just one top player which is undisputed: Ito and Hariomoto.
The difference is girls side is packed with very good players who have very good year fighting, improving and beating chinese players (ishikawa, hayata, hirano, kato, sato, and others). On the other side we have Mizutani and Niwa having one of the worst years in their career and then nothing long until Yoshimura, mastaka and others top 30 players.
And yes I would choose Ishikawa for second singles and second spot in team competition.
IMO two teams squad I would choose
women: ITO, ISHIKAWA, HAYATA
men: HARIMOTO, MIZUTANI, MASATAKA
xd: ITO, MASATAKA

Vlad Celler
11-25-2019, 11:39 AM
This is totaly different thing.
Both teams Men and Women how just one top player which is undisputed: Ito and Hariomoto.
The difference is girls side is packed with very good players who have very good year fighting, improving and beating chinese players (ishikawa, hayata, hirano, kato, sato, and others). On the other side we have Mizutani and Niwa having one of the worst years in their career and then nothing long until Yoshimura, mastaka and others top 30 players.
And yes I would choose Ishikawa for second singles and second spot in team competition.
IMO two teams squad I would choose
women: ITO, ISHIKAWA, HAYATA
men: HARIMOTO, MIZUTANI, MASATAKA
xd: ITO, MASATAKA

Curious ... Your opinion - Miu Hirano ... is hopeless?

driversbeat
11-25-2019, 11:44 AM
Imagine if US came to shock Japan just like how Germany did back in 2016. Not likely, but it would be pretty funny.

Sali
11-25-2019, 01:49 PM
Curious ... Your opinion - Miu Hirano ... is hopeless?
Well somebody has to sit down. I chose Hayata since she is the best doubles player in Japan and I am more convinced about Ishikawa over Hirano but lets not start this subject (it is like neverending story:)). Anyway in current Ito form any configuration should easily lead them to final. So doubles should be very important. I am even thinking if configuration in doubles Ito and Hayata can be good against China.
1. They take doubles
2. Ishikawa looses
3. Ito wins
4. Ishikawa looses
5. Hayata wins
In that configuration if they take doubles and Ito takes down 1 chinese, it is enough that Ishikawa or Hayata will win one match.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-25-2019, 02:50 PM
I think Sali's team looks quite good on paper... they should hire you !

Personally I hope Hirano can get back to her 2017 form and even surpass it. she's been working on improving her game, but progress is slow. I think she needs more serve and game tactics. Her receive / short game has improved and I think her FH loop opener has improved a bit as well. but its far from enough yet.

karupinkun
11-25-2019, 03:18 PM
Well somebody has to sit down. I chose Hayata since she is the best doubles player in Japan and I am more convinced about Ishikawa over Hirano but lets not start this subject (it is like neverending story:)). Anyway in current Ito form any configuration should easily lead them to final. So doubles should be very important. I am even thinking if configuration in doubles Ito and Hayata can be good against China.
1. They take doubles
2. Ishikawa looses
3. Ito wins
4. Ishikawa looses
5. Hayata wins
In that configuration if they take doubles and Ito takes down 1 chinese, it is enough that Ishikawa or Hayata will win one match.

Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.

Vlad Celler
11-25-2019, 03:29 PM
karupinkun (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?72068-karupinkun)

It is logical ....

NextLevel
11-25-2019, 03:52 PM
Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.

I think sometimes people overestimate the importance of putting the best player in the singles spot and underestimate the importance of putting your players where they can win matches.

I think Ishikawa is still ahead of Hirano at the moment. I would take the team with Ishikawa over the team with Hirano.

Vlad Celler
11-25-2019, 04:01 PM
I think sometimes people overestimate the importance of putting the best player in the singles spot and underestimate the importance of putting your players where they can win matches.

I think Ishikawa is still ahead of Hirano at the moment. I would take the team with Ishikawa over the team with Hirano.

Curious ... Ahead is the TOP-12 (December 21-22) and the Empress Cup (All of Japan), January 2020 ...
It will be interesting to compare the results of Ishikawa and Hirano ... and Hina Hayata ...

Sali
11-25-2019, 04:02 PM
Sorry to say that this makes no sense. You pick Ishikawa, because she can lose both of her games? Well, then you can just take whoever you want.

If you go with Ito, Ishikawa and Hayata you have to field Ito as a doubles player, because Hayata and Ishikawa are both lefties. In addition to Ishikawa´s doubles weakness you dont want to do that.

On the otherhand Ito, Hirano and Hayata you can play as you suggested (not a bad idea to put Ito against CNT in the doubles), but you are still flexible (if Ito wins against the CNT in the singles competition) to put Hirano und Hayata in doubles together.

By your own argumentation Ishikawa shouldn´t be in the lineup.
Good explanation but I just gave one example. The other one is Ishikawa is capable to win at least one of two games so Hayata can loose single.
What I mean is that all women Japanese players do make a progress (even Ishikawa) so it is not easy to choose one who deserves it the most.
Modern doubles need one player with wider wingspan, the one who can play hard FH topspin with full arm extention, both Ishikawa and Hayata can do this. IMO Hirano is not good doubles player, especially if you have to match her with Ito (I know they had some good results some years ago, but today is different doubles).
What is more I think Hirano style is not that much innovative. She plays very risky (huricane) and everything works fine if she is in form but Chinese players. Also her statistic this year is dramatic from 15 matches she won only 3 with 3rd China team. Even Kato, Ishikawa and Sato defeat top Chinese players this year.
So taking Hirano against Chinese is not the best idea.
Ishikawa has same statistic this year but she defeat world no. 1 Cheng Meng and He Zhuojia so 2nd china team also was very close to defeat SYS.
This is just my observation.

Brs
11-25-2019, 04:26 PM
It's astonishing how much energy is in this thread. But instead of nameless CNT let's say LSW and SYS. Reality is on current form neither Ishikawa nor Hirano can touch either one of them in singles. JNT's only hope is Ito and doubles.

Vlad Celler
11-25-2019, 05:25 PM
It's astonishing how much energy is in this thread. But instead of nameless CNT let's say LSW and SYS. Reality is on current form neither Ishikawa nor Hirano can touch either one of them in singles. JNT's only hope is Ito and doubles.

Thank you very much Apacible ... He just raised a very interesting topic .... Women's table tennis, the confrontation China-Japan .....Moreover, Tokyo 2020 ... China, in principle, does not want to lose, Japan wants to win the home Olympics ....

Tempest/Comet
11-25-2019, 05:47 PM
I think Sali's team looks quite good on paper... they should hire you !

Personally I hope Hirano can get back to her 2017 form and even surpass it. she's been working on improving her game, but progress is slow. I think she needs more serve and game tactics. Her receive / short game has improved and I think her FH loop opener has improved a bit as well. but its far from enough yet.

Hirano needs 1) a new coach, the current 22yr old ZS, a training partner, with no world tournament experience, no coaching experience, is a total waste of time, and may have stunted Hirano’s growth and potential.
2) a shrink, badly, to get her out of this “mind gone white” syndrome.
3) a publicist, to advise her when to STF up and not say things that contrast with what JTTA is looking for - someone who has ‘fighting spirit’ and is eager(hungry) for victory.
It’s painful to see such raw talent wasting away.

Vlad Celler
11-25-2019, 06:06 PM
Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?

driversbeat
11-26-2019, 12:36 AM
Y'all just mad that Hirano isn't on Ito's level. She's 19 and grappling with emotions is part and parcel of that. She's still an amazing player.

Hysteresis
11-26-2019, 01:02 AM
Imagine if US came to shock Japan just like how Germany did back in 2016. Not likely, but it would be pretty funny.

That would be genuinely shocking, considering Germany is and was an perennial contender for a medal.

The US has a couple of players that might conceivably cause upsets (one in each men/women), but lacks the depth to make this realistic.

zeio
11-26-2019, 06:18 AM
Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?

松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4,中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10,張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7 (https://hochi.news/articles/20180813-OHT1T50244.html). Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style (https://www.nikkan-gendai.com/articles/view/sports/206386) after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweak her FH (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77295&PID=954793&title=mu-zi-vs-miu-hirano-2016-cttsl-stage-1-round-1#954793).

zeio
11-26-2019, 06:30 AM
Wong Chun Ting has pulled out of the MWC. Aruna will replace him.

Niwa: WTGF...
Mizutani: >_<

Vlad Celler
11-26-2019, 06:46 AM
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4,中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10,張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7 (https://hochi.news/articles/20180813-OHT1T50244.html). Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style (https://www.nikkan-gendai.com/articles/view/sports/206386) after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweaked her FH (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77295&PID=954793&title=mu-zi-vs-miu-hirano-2016-cttsl-stage-1-round-1#954793).

Curious...
Why Ito has one coach for many years, Macudzaki .... And Hayata, if I understand correctly, one coach for several years ...
Why doesn't Hirano have a permanent coach? What is the reason ? In herself?
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4,中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10,張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7. Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help change her style after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweaked her FH.


Thanks a lot Zeio!
Liu Jie, if I am not mistaken, also trained Mima Ito in 2013-2014?
Is she the coach of Miva Harimoto now?

I sincerely wish Miu Hirano to recover as soon as possible ....

Janard
11-26-2019, 06:47 AM
松崎太佑(MATSUZAKI Taisuke) has been coaching Ito since she started junior high school.

石田大輔(ISHIDA Daisuke) has been coaching Hayata since she was an elementary school student.

Hirano has had several coaches over the years - 劉潔(LIU Jie) from 2013/4,中澤鋭/王銳(NAKAZAWA Rui/WANG Rui) from 2015/10,張成(ZHANG Cheng) b/w 2017/4-10 and then from 2018/7 (https://hochi.news/articles/20180813-OHT1T50244.html). Zhang Cheng had served as her sparring partner and a few others from 2014 until then.

Hirano actually approached Nakazawa to help overhaul her style (https://www.nikkan-gendai.com/articles/view/sports/206386) after she missed out on the Rio Olympics in 2015/9 and Zhang Cheng helped tweak her FH (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77295&PID=954793&title=mu-zi-vs-miu-hirano-2016-cttsl-stage-1-round-1#954793).

Hirano's new trick is to dye her hair blonde.

Vlad Celler
11-26-2019, 07:05 AM
Hirano's new trick is to dye her hair blonde.

When I saw this - at first I could not believe my eyes even ......
(but to be honest, Hitomi Sato on a selfie with Janard just stunned me ... Really beautiful girl ....Respect Janard ....:o)

Tempest/Comet
11-26-2019, 08:06 AM
Hirano's new trick is to dye her hair blonde.
Watch out ! Super Saiyan Hirano on table 1 ! :-D anti-glare glasses needed to read her serve :-p
I suggest Chernobyl Green though, nuke your opponent with make belief radiation.
Any way to distract your opponent’s concentration is fair game, but cause her to shake with giggles is a new tactic.
But it isn’t as bad as the straw blonde she dyed in Bulgaria LOL
Those red drapes that were hanging on her pleated ?

zeio
11-26-2019, 08:27 AM
Liu Jie is now with Chinese Taipei (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22236-Austrian-Open-2019-12-17-November-2019&p=296035&viewfull=1#post296035). As far as I know, she was never Ito's coach, but she coached the MiuMima pair.

On changing coach, my stance is still the same as in 2017 (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78116&PID=966246&title=is-anyone-watching-the-all-japan-championships#966246) when folks thought Ito should ditch Matsuzaki.

Matsuzaki used to work for a semiconductor design company. He resigned and pursued the dream with Ito and went 2 whole years without any income. Starting out, the ride was bumpy as hell. But over the years, I see Matsuzaki grow with Ito when they finally realize cutting corners won't get them there (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20935-Japan-Women-s-Race-to-Tokyo-2020-Singles&p=292235&viewfull=1#post292235).

Hirano, OTOH, is actually a hard worker. The problem she has been facing for the last 2 years is not just technical but also psychological. She's making a recovery this year but this race is impeding the progress.

https://the-ans.jp/news/3746/2/

 そんな呉氏は同紙の取材で「平野の優勝は予想されていた。私が指導したなかで、伊藤美誠が天才肌とすれば、平野美宇は努力家。2人は中2の時にダブルスのパートナーでしたが、高2の時に分かれました。それだけライバル意識が強かった。少し実力で劣っていた平野の競争心は強かった。(アジア選手権では)いつか伊藤に勝つという思いが表れていたように思います」と2人の関係を語っていた。

Vlad Celler
11-26-2019, 08:55 AM
In any case, my wishes are Miu Hirano - good luck in NA or GF!:)
(although it would be better if fortune gave NA Open Hina Hayata .....):o

Jacky Kwok
11-26-2019, 09:20 AM
I think to compare between Ishikawa, Hirano and Hayata, besides how many CNT players each of them won, we also need to review how many non-CNT foreign players each of them lost.

Anyone got this statistic?

Vlad Celler
11-26-2019, 10:10 AM
I think to compare between Ishikawa, Hirano and Hayata, besides how many CNT players each of them won, we also need to review how many non-CNT foreign players each of them lost.

Anyone got this statistic?

This is a good suggestion ..... Perhaps someone will do such a review, at least in the last year or two?

zeio
11-26-2019, 10:29 AM
Ito
4-2 Hirano, SF, Hong Kong Open
4-2 Hirano, R16, Australian Open
3-4 Kato, R16, T2 Malaysia
4-1 Hayata, R32, Czech Open
4-3 Hirano, R16, Swedish Open
4-1 Ishikawa, R16, T2 Singapore

Hirano
2-3 and 3-4 Doo Hoi Kem, group and pos. 5-6, Asian Cup
1-4 Hayata, SF, Oman Open
2-4 Ito, SF, Hong Kong Open
2-4 Ito, R16, Australian Open
2-4 FTW, R16, T2 Malaysia
4-0 Sato, QF, Japan Open(who took out DN in R16)
4-1 Ishikawa, SF, Czech Open
3-1 Doo Hoi Kem, R16, ATTC singles
4-3 Hayata, R32 Swedish Open
3-4 Ito, R16 Swedish Open
0-4 Hayata, R32, Austrian Open
3-4 Lily Zhang, R16, WWC(who finished 4th)
3-4 JJH, R16, T2 Singapore(who finished 4th and 3-0 in TWC the previous week)

Ishikawa
3-4 Doo Hoi Kem, R16, WTTC
0-3 FTW, group, Asian Cup
4-1 FTW, pos. 3-4, Asian Cup
1-4 Hirano, SF in Czech Open;
1-4 Yang Xiaoxin, German Open
3-4 FTW, QF, WWC(who finished 3rd)
1-4 Ito, R16, T2 Singapore

Keep in mind Ishikawa started the year being ranked no. 3 in the world. Because of her high seeding position, Ishikawa didn't have to face anyone particularly strong, especially Ito and Hirano, in the 1st half of the year. She has run into her teammates only 7 times:
3x Kihara, R32 in Japan Open(WTP), R32 in Korea Open(WT), and R32 in Australian Open(WTP) (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21440-Australian-Open-2019-Platinum&p=281541&viewfull=1#post281541);
1x Shibata, R16 in Korea Open;
1x Sato, R16 in Australian Open;
1x Hirano, SF in Czech Open;
1x Ito, R16 in T2 Singapore

Ito has run into her teammates 12 times.
Hirano has run into her teammates 11 times.
Hayata has run into her teammates 10 times.

Hayata
4-1 Hirano, SF, Oman Open
3-4 Yoo Eunchong, R32, Qatar Open
2-4 JJH, R16, Bulgaria Open
1-4 Ito, R32, Czech Open
3-4 Hirano, R32, Swedish Open
4-0 Hirano, R32, Austrian Open

Sali
11-26-2019, 10:36 AM
I think to compare between Ishikawa, Hirano and Hayata, besides how many CNT players each of them won, we also need to review how many non-CNT foreign players each of them lost.

Anyone got this statistic?
very easy it is on ITTF
2019 including japanese players:
hirano: 6
hayata: 5
ishikawa: 5

It does not say much. Depends how long ago it was and who the lost if this was top 10 player or top 50 player.

Vlad Celler
11-26-2019, 10:50 AM
very easy it is on ITTF
2019 including japanese players:
hirano: 6
hayata: 5
ishikawa: 5

It does not say much. Depends how long ago it was and who the lost if this was top 10 player or top 50 player.

That's right .. It’s easy to get quantitative statistics .... But how to give this information a qualitative assessment?

How, for example, to evaluate the recent results of Qian Tianyi - a win against LSW and Hayata, a loss to Ito?

Jacky Kwok
11-26-2019, 11:09 AM
The reason for this evaluation is to balance the wish to beat CNT but at the same time minimize the chance for losing to any other team.

zeio
11-26-2019, 11:44 AM
Ito reached the final 5 times: Hong Kong Open, Swedish Open, German Open, Austrian Open(won) and T2 Singapore.
Hirano reached the final 1 time: Czech Open
Ishikawa reached the final 0 times...

Hayata won the Challenge series 5 times: Portugal Open, Oman Open, Serbia Open, Paraguay Open, and Belarus Open.

zeio
11-26-2019, 05:28 PM
Whatever the case, they'll consider the results in 2019 only when 2 players have the same ranking points for the singles event.

Given Miyazaki's stance, Ito playing in the doubles will not happen. Therefore, it'll be either Ishikawa or Hayata. If Ishikawa gets the 2nd spot, Hayata will be out for certain. But then they'll have a big headache over who to choose for the XD - Mizutani/Ito, Yoshimura/Ishikawa, Harimoto/Ito, Harimoto/Hirano, or Harimoto/Ishikawa? If they go with Yoshimura/Ishikawa, because Mizutani will likely not get the 2nd spot, they'll face a dilemma for the MT, due to how the Olympic team ranking is calculated (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20935-Japan-Women-s-Race-to-Tokyo-2020-Singles&p=294149&viewfull=1#post294149).

All for One vs One for All. Individual vs Group. The cost of being transparent, fair and just.


https://youtu.be/tdJ2YX9Z8RI?t=208

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/player/selection/2018/20180922_2020oiympic_tokyo.pdf


平成30年9月22日理事会決定
公益財団法人 日本卓球協会



2020東京オリンピック男女日本代表候補選手選考基準
(卓球競技:2020年7月25日〜8月7日東京体育館)

1.シングルス代表候補選手2名
 2020年1月発表の世界ランキング日本人上位2名をjocに推薦する。
 ※上位1位の世界ランキングポイントが3名以上、若しくは2位の選手が2名以上
  重複した場合は、以下の順序で上位を決定する。
  (1)ワールドツアー等の優勝回数を評価(〇内の数字は優先順位)
   ※2019年1月1日~12月31日までの期間を評価
   ※①世界選手権 ②ワールドカップ ③ワールドツアーグランドファイナル
    ④ワールドツアープラチナ6大会
  (2)世界ランキング30位以内(日本人選手、同一選手含む)に勝利した回数
  (3)該当する選手間で最終決定戦を行う。(詳細は後日決定)

2.団体戦代表候補選手1名
 上記1.の代表候補選手とダブルスが組め、団体戦でシングルス及びダブルスにて活躍が期待できる選手1名を、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOCに推薦する。

3.混合ダブルス代表候補選手男女各1名
 上記1.2.代表候補男女各3名の選手の中で、最高のペアリングと思われる混合ダブルスペア1組を、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOCに推薦する。
 なお、日本は開催地枠として全種目のエントリーが保障されており、予選で出場資格を獲得する必要がない。従って、混合ダブルスベスト4に代表資格が発生する予定である2019年12月ITTFワールドツアーグランドファイナルについては、混合ダブルスの代表候補選手選出の対象大会としない。
 ※ベスト4に入ったペアは、所属NFならびに所属NOCが承認するまで代表ではなく、所属NFと所属NOCに最終的な決定権があることはITTFと確認済みである。

4.リザーブ候補選手1名
 日本がメダルを獲得するために必要なダブルス及びシングルスでの国際競争力を持ち合わせている者1名を、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOCに推薦する。リザーブ選手の発表時期はJOCへのエントリー期限直前とする。

5.補足基準
 代表候補選手及びリザーブ候補選手が故障等で大会参加が不能となった場合、その代替候補選手は、強化本部が決定し理事会に報告及びJOCに推薦する。

以上

zeio
11-27-2019, 08:00 AM
Ito's interview after T2. She said she played at 30-40% of her level because she couldn't get enough quality sleep, due to the humidity in Singapore. She kept waking up every hour.

In the past, she wouldn't be able to get back from 0-2 down playing at 30-40%, but she's more confident that she could do it. For shots that she used to think "so strong" or "oh, I'm finished", now she could get them back.

On playing SYS again after a week, Ito said what didn't work the last time worked this time. She added that SYS has skills that others don't have and she can't cope with that just yet, so she'll need more practice to level up.

http://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report_detail.php?bn=1&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&rpcdno=3152#3152

T2での伊藤美誠「 これからの自分自身が楽しみです」

2019/11/25
 世界のトップ選手だけで競うT2ダイヤモンド(シンガポール)の決勝で、宿敵・孫穎莎(中国)にマッチポイントを握りながら逆転負けを喫した伊藤美誠選手の試合後のインタビュー。

●伊藤美誠のコメント
・・・試合を終えてどうでしょう?
「今日は30、40%の力でここまでできた。スマッシュとか自分の良さが少し出しづらかった。スマッシュが入る時は自分らしいと思う時だし、自分が前に行けている時には良い展開で、今調子が良いなと思える。いろんな技術が出しづらかったり、相手はラリーに持ってきている、相手が攻めてきたいんなだというのが、今日の試合はわかりやすかった。その中で、自分の卓球がやりにくかった。でも0−2から2−2に追いついて、孫選手と競れることは少し前まではあり得ないこと。
 本当に自分が30、40%だと前は1ゲームも取れないくらいの差があった。今は自分の卓球がしづらくてもここまで競れるようになったのはすごく自信になります。もちろん満足はしてないけど、自分の卓球をできるようにしたら勝てるんだなと思えた。負けたけど自信がついた試合でした。
 毎回、毎回やるたびに『これは強いわ』『あ、やられた』というのがあったけど、前よりも絶対取れないというボールはなくなりました。だから打ち合いにもなれるし、パワーボールも打ち返せるようになって、これからの自分自身が楽しみです。孫選手はこれからも上がってくる選手なので、彼女に対応できるようになりたい。彼女の持っている技術を出されても勝てるように余裕を持って戦えたら良いなと思えました」

・・・最後の1本(4−4)はどういう心境でしたか?
「チームワールドカップの時より気楽でした。あの時も10−7からだったし、あの場面を経験したら今日は勝てるかと思ったけど、そんなに甘くはなかった。展開としては悪くなかった。サービスの瞬間はなかったけど、3球目攻撃の瞬間、『あ、これはミスる』と思いました。孫選手にミスを誘ってもミスをしないから、自分が決めるというか、相手に強いボールを打たせたくないので、ちょっと無理に行ったかなと。1本の取り方は大事。でも、その1本の試合って、T2しかない。この接戦を経験できたT2の試合に感謝しています。この試合を抜ければ、どんな試合でも自信を持って戦える」

・・・この短期間で孫選手が変えてきたことはありましたか?
「面白いのが、前回の試合で効かなかったことが今回効いている。この前よりも今回のほうがいろんなことが効きました。組み立てや、どの場面で何をするかによって効いたり、相手はミスをすると感じました。接戦になって効くこともあるので、改めて面白いと思いました。孫選手もいろんな打ち方をしてきて、毎回毎回、打ち方が増えるのでやっていて面白い。まだあるのか、まだあるのかという孫選手の引きだしを毎試合見れているので、幅広いなと思います。オリンピックまでにはすべてを出し切ってもらえるように自分が頑張りたいと思います」

・・・自分の安定感や成長を感じる部分は?
「目の前の1戦1戦で自分の実力を出し切って勝つことを目標にしています。1回戦で中国選手と当たっても良いようにしっかり練習してきている。グランドファイナルまでしっかり実力をつけたい。大会ごとに試合が自分の伸びしろを感じさせてくれる。まだまだ上に上がるチャンスはあるし、何でもできる選手になりたい」

・・・孫選手が引き出しを出してくると言いましたが、それによって自分の力を引き出されることもありますか?
「ありますね。孫選手はほかの選手が持っていないような技術を持っているし、彼女のおかげで、まだこれに対応し切れていない、こういう打ち方があるんだとか、まだまだ練習しなければいけないと思うし、自分の中でレベルアップできている」

・・・今回、30、40%と言うけど、残りの60、70%は何ですか?
「睡眠です(笑)。こっちにきて湿気で、寝ても1時間で目が覚めたりとか、深く寝れていない。今日も10分昼寝したら、その10分でもいびきをかいて気持ちよかった。眠りが浅くて、日々疲れが出てきて、決勝の後も階段上るのもきつかった。でも、前よりも体力がついていることも自覚しています。今回も3大会連続でやったけど、オリンピックでも3週連続はあると思うので、最後の決勝戦で120%を出し切るのを目標にして頑張りたい」

・・・睡眠の割合が大きい(笑)。60、70%は技術的なことだと思いました。
「大きいですよ(笑)。睡眠は本当に大事。睡眠とれば頭の回転も良くなるし、さらに足も動くし、足も動けば自信になる。全部つながっている」

・・・孫穎莎に対する手応えがあったとは言え、やはり2試合連続、マッチポイントを奪ってから逆転で負けた。
「今回のT2の試合は精神的に鍛えてくれる試合だと思ってました。5点勝負とか、ジュースがなく、10−10からの1点勝負と、普段の試合ではあり得ないルールだから、そこを取れるかどうか、精神面を鍛えてくれたのがT2。もちろん5本勝負のほうが中国には勝ちやすい。ただ、強いて言えば、チームカップの時のほうがもっと勝ちたかった。
でもチームカップの敗戦が今回生かされたと思う。孫選手だけじゃなくて、田志希選手の試合でのラスト1本をどう取るかというのは、チームカップでの孫選手との試合が生きた。さらに今回の試合は次につながる試合ができた。グランドファイナルや来年の試合が本当に楽しみになりました」

Sali
11-27-2019, 08:31 AM
I think others had same problem with humidity, so I wouldn't take it as excuse.
Anyway Ito rulled the table and was deffinitely better then SYS.
It would be very good to see all top japanese and chinese player after longer break in action. They all look exhausted.

Vlad Celler
11-27-2019, 09:29 AM
It is curious if Mima Ito, following the results of the Grand Final, will be able to rise above the LSW in the ITTF January rating ...
She has chances ....
Oddly enough, the ideal option for this is if Ito and LSW lose in the first round .....
Ito seeding nr.2
In the first round (if there are no replacements on the list), she will have to play with any of:
HE,CIC,SATO,QIAN T......
LSW, if No. 6, in the first round is likely to meet with Ishikawa, Hirano, FT ....
If LSW wins the first round, ITO will need to go through another round to become No. 3 ....
(this is where 200 points from the T-2 could come in handy ...)

Judging by the interview, Ito is determined ..... It remains to wish her happiness and good luck!

Sali
11-27-2019, 09:53 AM
I am thinking about ITO ranking for Olympics. Maybe somebody could enlight me with the rules from which month they will take ranking for olympics.
For now CM has quite big advantage: 1600 points over LSW and 2200 over SYS but I will be very surprised if she will be selected for Olympics. Probably they will choose LSW who has 2000 points more then ITO (but after this month it will be definitely less). Who is going to take second spot from China??? maybe DN maybe SYS.
What I mean is that ITO has a big chances to be ranked as no 1 or at least no 2 for olympics. If she will be no 1 then meeting chinese player will be no sooner then final. So there is a big chance for at least silver medal.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-27-2019, 09:55 AM
if ITO is seeded 2 she can still meet the second Chinese player in Semis, it depends on the draw

it would be a 50% / 50% probability

zeio
11-27-2019, 11:02 AM
The draw for Tokyo 2020 will be done with separation by association. That means Ito will meet the 3rd/4th seeded CNT player 100% in the SF even if she is the 2nd seed.

Vlad Celler
11-28-2019, 04:30 AM
Maybe someone noticed .....
Hina Hayata, signing autographs to her fans, writes with her right hand .....
Why is that ?

NextLevel
11-28-2019, 05:03 AM
Maybe someone noticed .....
Hina Hayata, signing autographs to her fans, writes with her right hand .....
Why is that ?

Many left handed TT players are really righthanded and only play TT with their left hand. Even in tennis. Nadal is a famous example...

Vlad Celler
11-28-2019, 05:10 AM
Many left handed TT players are really righthanded and only play TT with their left hand. Even in tennis. Nadal is a famous example...

Very interesting .... Hayata writes only with her right hand, or does she prefer to use her right hand in general (for example, when she eats ...)?


I watched several videos .....Yes indeed.....Handshakes with rivals, with a coach - she does with her right hand ...And she holds the chopsticks (when eating) in her right hand ....

Jacky Kwok
11-28-2019, 08:10 AM
Because of the separation of the same association, if Ito and the 2 CNT are within the top 4 seeds of the Olympic, then Ito will meet one of the CNT in semi and the other CNT in final, regardless of the draw (assuming no upset).

If CNT got the top 2 seeds, then which CNT will meet Ito first will be 50/50. But if Ito and one of the CNT got the top 2 seeds, then Ito will meet the lower seeded CNT before meeting the higher seeded CNT.

That means technically, CNT can control which of their players to meet Ito first by manipulating the rankings of the CNT players before the seeding. For example if CNT decided to send LSW and SYS for single and wanted SYS to meet Ito in the semi first, they can try to let LSW win more matches when she encounters other CNT players and let SYS lose some matches to other CNT players such that the ranking of LSW > Ito > SYS. I don’t mean CNT will do that. Just said this is technically possible.

Vlad Celler
11-28-2019, 08:16 AM
Because of the separation of the same association, if Ito and the 2 CNT are within the top 4 seeds of the Olympic, then Ito will meet one of the CNT in semi and the other CNT in final, regardless of the draw (assuming no upset).

If CNT got the top 2 seeds, then which CNT will meet Ito first will be 50/50. But if Ito and one of the CNT got the top 2 seeds, then Ito will meet the lower seeded CNT before meeting the higher seeded CNT.

That means technically, CNT can control which of their players to meet Ito first by manipulating the rankings of the CNT players before the seeding. For example if CNT decided to send LSW and SYS for single and wanted SYS to meet Ito in the semi first, they can try to let LSW win more matches when she encounters other CNT players and let SYS lose some matches to other CNT players such that the ranking of LSW > Ito > SYS. I don’t mean CNT will do that. Just said this is technically possible.

You're right....

WimGeurink
11-28-2019, 08:29 AM
It's very nice to see competition at this level. And it's only the qualification.

zeio
11-30-2019, 05:59 AM
Now that Niwa has reached the QF in the MWC, Mizutani will have to reach the SF at the WTGF.

If I can't make the Tokyo Olympics, then it'll be my time to retire. - Jun Mizutani

https://youtu.be/y49wMzqK-ao?t=51

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-30-2019, 06:05 AM
@Zeio Mizutani can still make it to the Team's and XD events

zeio
11-30-2019, 07:58 AM
More like XD.

http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/l50

160名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/11/30(土) 15:16:44.48ID:Uj9NWJDA
水谷だろうと吉村だろうと絶望的だなwww
丹羽になった時点で団体は終了や
It's hopeless, whether it be Mizutani or Yoshimura LOL
The MT has effectively ended the moment Niwa is in

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-30-2019, 08:00 AM
More like XD.

http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/l50

It's hopeless, whether it be Mizutani or Yoshimura LOL
The MT has effectively ended the moment Niwa is in

Japan would be very lucky even to get bronze in MT indeed. There are many teams who can beat them. But they still have a chance.

Vlad Celler
11-30-2019, 08:26 AM
[QUOTE=zeio;297667]More like XD.

http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/l50


175名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!! (sage)2019/11/30(土) 16:03:44.42ID:WMXL66s5>>188 (https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/188)
>>85 (https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/85)
ミックスは、まだわからん
水谷伊藤が選ばれる可能性高いけど
まだ張本早田が選ばれる可能性も少ないけどある

水谷の故障と成績
早田のシングルスの結果次第だろう

早田が中国選手に慣れてきてるから
女子団体から石川外されて
伊藤平野早田になる可能性も出てきてる



176名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/11/30(土) 16:04:11.48ID:QAOO7f7c
万全でない馬龍と張本ならちょっと楽しみだな


...............................

zeio
11-30-2019, 08:33 AM
http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575024140/l50

175名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/11/30(土) 16:03:44.42ID:WMXL66s5>>188
>>85
ミックスは、まだわからん
水谷伊藤が選ばれる可能性高いけど
まだ張本早田が選ばれる可能性も少ないけどある

水谷の故障と成績
早田のシングルスの結果次第だろう

早田が中国選手に慣れてきてるから
女子団体から石川外されて
伊藤平野早田になる可能性も出てきてる
I don't know the XD yet
Mizutani/Ito will likely be selected
but there is still a small possibility that Harimoto/Hayata will be chosen

Mizutani's injury and results
It will depend on Hayata's singles results

Hayata is getting used to Chinese players
Ishikawa might be left out of the WT
There is also the possibility of it becoming Ito, Hirano, Hayata

driversbeat
11-30-2019, 09:14 AM
Who said this?

zeio
11-30-2019, 09:24 AM
Hayata thinks of the World Tour as the CTTSL, having played CNT players 17 times this year, most-ever in her career. Up against China 6 times in a row since Korea Open in July, it was in the summer that she swept away the underdog mentality. Last year, she'd think "China again? Tough draw." Now, she's prepared for the worst. "Table tennis, my feelings and such have changed a lot. CNT players have become the norm."

https://hochi.news/articles/20191126-OHT1T50122.html

【卓球通信】ひな成長!!中国選手から今季10勝
2019年11月30日 11時0分スポーツ報知
# スポーツ# 卓球# 東京五輪リポート

 早田ひな(19)=日本生命=が、オーストリアOPで中国選手から今季10勝目を挙げた。世界ランクが低い選手でも実力が高い中国勢からの2ケタ勝利は伊藤美誠と2人だけ。年間17試合も自己最多で「ワールドツアーは中国超級リーグだと思ってます」と苦笑する。

 苦手意識を払拭したのは夏場だった。7月の韓国OPから6試合連続で中国勢と対戦。「昨年は『また中国か。ドローが厳しいな』と思っていたけど、勝つしかないなって」。腹をくくったことで「卓球や気持ちの面がすごく変わった。基準が中国選手になってきている」と自己分析する。

 ただ、上位6選手からの白星は伊藤の4勝に対し、早田は劉詩ブンからの1勝。「1軍のトップの選手に10勝できるようになったら、(ツアーの)プラチナや世界選手権の優勝も見えてくる。飛び級はないので、自分のペースで基準をさらに上げていきたい」と決意を新たにした。(林 直史)

https://hochi.news/articles/20191128-OHT1T50297.html

早田ひな、今年最後の国際大会へ出発「成長につながる試合に」
2019年11月28日 22時51分スポーツ報知
# スポーツ# 卓球

 卓球女子世界ランク25位の早田ひな(19)=日本生命=が28日、国際大会の「チャレンジプラス」ノースアメリカン・オープン(OP)(12月4日開幕、カナダ)に向け、羽田空港を出発した。

 チャレンジプラスは今年新設され、ワールドツアー12大会よりも格付けが低い大会だ。ただ、東京五輪代表選考レースも終盤戦を迎えたことで、日本からは石川佳純、平野美宇、佐藤瞳、加藤美優らトップ選手がそろってエントリー。さらに中国からも12選手が参戦。ハイレベルな戦いが予想されるが「チャレンジプラスでこんなに強い人たちと試合ができる。そこで試合をすることですごく自分の成長につながるし、中国選手と対戦する機会も多くなると思う。プラスにとらえて試合ができる」と前向きに受け止めている。

 チャレンジプラスでは2月のポルトガルOP、3月のオマーンOP、9月のパラグアイOPと、出場した3大会全てで優勝を飾っている。その要因を「自分らしいプレーをして、思い切ってやることで優勝することができている」と分析。早田にとっては、五輪代表争いで最後のアピールの場にもなるが「もちろん優勝することで印象を与えられかもしれないですけど、そういったことを考えずに、自分の成長につなげるための試合と思って、最後全力で頑張りたいなと思ってます」と足元を見据えた。

zeio
11-30-2019, 02:16 PM
Funny comment on 5ch.


411 名前:名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!! 2019/11/30(土) 23:31:53.06 ID:9hMZR2wQ
丹羽は代表ほぼ確定か
日本には丹羽より強いやつなんて少なくとも7~8人はいるのに納得いかないな
運も実力のうちとは言えど、運の要素が90%で五輪出れるなんて聞いたことないわ
Is Niwa almost confirmed as a representative?
There are at least 7-8 people in Japan who are stronger than Niwa, but I'm not sure
I've never heard that 90% of making the Olympics boils down to the element of luck, even though luck is part of one's strength.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
11-30-2019, 02:20 PM
Who said this?

random guy on the internet

Vlad Celler
11-30-2019, 03:12 PM
Zeio, thank you very much!


Hina Hayata, happiness to you and good luck in NA Open!

zeio
11-30-2019, 03:40 PM
TV Tokyo put up a dedicated page last week.

https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/tabletennis_roadtotokyo2020/

Vlad Celler
11-30-2019, 03:55 PM
Honestly, I would really like to see Hayata win NA Open ....This victory will allow her to rise above Kato, become the fifth in the ranking of Japan ......
Once again I wish her happiness and good luck ..
(too many Chinese women, alas ....):(

apacible
11-30-2019, 06:12 PM
Honestly, I would really like to see Hayata win NA Open ....This victory will allow her to rise above Kato, become the fifth in the ranking of Japan ......
Once again I wish her happiness and good luck ..
(too many Chinese women, alas ....):(

Looks like SEGA thinks Hayata will make the Olympics haha. Even if she doesn't, at least she made it to the Olympics in the Virtual World. The name of the video game is "Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 - The Official Video Game." Other players featured so far are Ito, Hirano and Fukuhara.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5oSEW8jiKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMtsNyXzIQE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v51wf9yHfxE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFZaSrabfXo

zeio
12-01-2019, 01:03 PM
https://i.imgur.com/5cPiKgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/h8uiLp7.png

zeio
12-01-2019, 01:05 PM
Never say retire!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhYrNU5V7Sw

Janard
12-02-2019, 07:26 AM
Is the absence of Mizutani/Ito and presence of Harimoto/Nagasaki at the Japanese National Championships next January supposed to mean anything? Seems like Mizutani has withdrawn himself completely from the Men's Singles and Mixed Doubles categories, participating only in Men's Doubles with Oshima. Validity of these news to be confirmed though.

Vlad Celler
12-02-2019, 08:00 AM
Thank you, very interesting .... And I saw the lists of participants, but I watched inattentively, I repent ......

Ito - Morizono....:(
(no Hayata...:mad:)

zeio
12-02-2019, 09:52 AM
Is the absence of Mizutani/Ito and presence of Harimoto/Nagasaki at the Japanese National Championships next January supposed to mean anything? Seems like Mizutani has withdrawn himself completely from the Men's Singles and Mixed Doubles categories, participating only in Men's Doubles with Oshima. Validity of these news to be confirmed though.

I'm surprised to see him compete in MD. He said last year he was going to retire. He's never competed in XD.

Ito started competing in XD in 2018 and has always paired with Morizono.

Hairmoto paired with Nagasaki in 2019 and Hirano in 2018.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20050-Mizutani-Announces-quot-Retirement-quot-from-All-Japan-Championships&p=257122&viewfull=1#post257122
http://japantabletennis.com/zennihon2020/result

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-02-2019, 09:58 AM
i'd love to see my coach Ooya play against Harimoto ! I hope he'll make it happen !

Janard
12-03-2019, 04:10 PM
The draw for Tokyo 2020 will be done with separation by association. That means Ito will meet the 3rd/4th seeded CNT player 100% in the SF even if she is the 2nd seed.

The Chinese forum seems divided on this so I went to read the ITTF 2019 Handbook (https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/11/2019ITTFHandbook_v2.pdf).





4.5.2 Events4.5.2.1 The Olympic competition shall include at least men's singles, women's singles, men's team and women's team events.


4.5.2.2 The Team Match System in team events and the system of play in both team and individual events including any qualifying competitions shall be decided by the Board of Directors, on the recommendation of the Olympic and Paralympic Commission, and all Associations shall be notified in accordance with the schedule set by the IOC.




4.5.2.3. Players of the same Association shall be separated according to 3.6.3.1 and 3.6.3.3 only in preliminary rounds but not in further rounds.

3.6.3.1: Nominated players and pairs of the same Association shall, as far as possible, be separated according to 3.6.3.3 and 3.6.6.4 unless otherwise stated in the specific regulations for such particular event or group of events.

3.6.3.3: The entries ranked 1 and 2 shall be drawn into different halves and those ranked 3 and 4 into quarters other than those occupied by the first two.

3.6.3.4 Remaining entries shall be separated only in groups and in the first round of the qualification draw for knock-outs and the main draw, but not in further rounds.







Due to the equivocal way the regulations are worded, it can be understood that separation by association might not apply to the main draw simply by reading 4.5.2.3

However, 4.5.2.3 also referenced 3.6.3.3 which talks about entries ranked 1 and 2 but does this mean the top and second seeds in the main draw or simply those in the preliminary rounds?

Nonetheless even if 3.6.3.3 refers to the seeds in the main draw, there is also no guarantee that players of the same association won't meet until the finals. Let's assume (using the latest WR) CNT sends CM (WR#1 hence top seed) and ZYL (WR#5 hence third seed) and JNT sends Ito (WR#4 hence second seed). The rules merely states that seeds 3 and 4 are to be grouped in different quarters from seeds 1 and 2 so ZYL could theoretically be in the second quarter and thus same half as CM (i.e. players of same association separated but not necessarily by halves) right? The only definite way for CM and ZYL to be sorted into different halves is if they are the top two seeds. Unless it's late and my brain isn't functioning well?

Jacky Kwok
12-04-2019, 03:24 AM
Koki Niwa withdrew from NA Open.

zeio
12-04-2019, 03:30 AM
https://i.imgur.com/yuIVzVzh.png

https://i.imgur.com/LXJoNKj.png

https://i.imgur.com/icobQx6.png

https://na.cx/i/0fT8Uc.jpg

zeio
12-04-2019, 03:35 AM
The Chinese forum seems divided on this so I went to read the ITTF 2019 Handbook (https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2019/11/2019ITTFHandbook_v2.pdf).



[/B]
Due to the equivocal way the regulations are worded, it can be understood that separation by association might not apply to the main draw simply by reading 4.5.2.3

However, 4.5.2.3 also referenced 3.6.3.3 which talks about entries ranked 1 and 2 but does this mean the top and second seeds in the main draw or simply those in the preliminary rounds?

Nonetheless even if 3.6.3.3 refers to the seeds in the main draw, there is also no guarantee that players of the same association won't meet until the finals. Let's assume (using the latest WR) CNT sends CM (WR#1 hence top seed) and ZYL (WR#5 hence third seed) and JNT sends Ito (WR#4 hence second seed). The rules merely states that seeds 3 and 4 are to be grouped in different quarters from seeds 1 and 2 so ZYL could theoretically be in the second quarter and thus same half as CM (i.e. players of same association separated but not necessarily by halves) right? The only definite way for CM and ZYL to be sorted into different halves is if they are the top two seeds. Unless it's late and my brain isn't functioning well?

I actually wrote about it several months ago (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21440-Australian-Open-2019-Platinum&p=281427&viewfull=1#post281427) and totally forgot about it after the last update.

driversbeat
12-04-2019, 04:58 AM
Probably went to catch a concert to celebrate his world cup victory

Vlad Celler
12-04-2019, 06:39 AM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyuIVzVzh.png

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLXJoNKj.png

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FicobQx6.png

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fna.cx%2Fi%2F0fT8Uc.jpg

Well, let's wait ... 6-7 a lot will become clear ..
It is difficult to say about the chances of Ishikawa, Hirano, Hayata until the Chinese women qualify and get into the main draw .....

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-04-2019, 07:18 AM
Zhang Qiang is a good player. Not easy for Kasumi

zeio
12-04-2019, 08:16 AM
This dude/dudess is so greedy. Wants Mizutani, Ishikawa and Miyazaki to retire.

http://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1575424668/l50

37名無しQ(・∀・)ノ゜サァン!!2019/12/04(水) 17:23:50.19ID:rPfe8Z0X>>39
シングルス代表になれなければ、年末に水谷選手は引退すると思う。
大先生は若い選手や卓球業界やファンに迷惑はかけない。日本の卓球を大きくした大功労者。それが故に、尊敬されている。
ついでに石川カスミも引退してほしい。
本部長も。

Janard
12-06-2019, 01:27 AM
The World (or is it ITTF) is really not making it easy for Ishikawa and Hirano. Their quarters are essentially Chinese enclaves. Ishikawa (and Hayata I guess since they are both 1/4) has it slightly easier IMO though, with only Zhang Qiang strong enough to pose a challenge. Hirano OTOH has more (albeit relatively unknown) Chinese women to deal with – Qi Fei?? Huang Fanzhen?? Zhang Binyue (if I recall correctly, she beat DN during the National Championships last year), Liu Xi (around CM/ZYL's age but has never achieved much, or anything at all) and Che Xiaoxi (probably the strongest of all the Chinese women on duty; she placed 6th during the last CTTSL?). If Hirano can wipe them all out, it will probably boost her confidence immensely (despite them being 4th/5th tier really) but if she flails... perhaps she should retire before Ishikawa-senpai.

NextLevel
12-06-2019, 02:28 AM
Zhang Qiang is a good player. Not easy for Kasumi

Paradoxically, Qiang Zhang is probably the one player that zeio dislikes as much as Ishikawa.

Vlad Celler
12-06-2019, 02:31 AM
Che Xiaoxi, if I remember correctly, lost to Mima Ito in 2015 in Bremen, Germany Open ....
In addition to Zhang Qiang, perhaps more should be noted Li Jiayi....
In general, we must wait for the quarter-finals .....
So far, with certainty we can say (my personal opinion) that Sato will reach the quarterfinals .....

In the Ishikawa-Hirano race, each of them still has a Grand Final .....

pongfugrasshopper
12-06-2019, 02:04 PM
Che Xiaoxi, if I remember correctly, lost to Mima Ito in 2015 in Bremen, Germany Open ....
In addition to Zhang Qiang, perhaps more should be noted Li Jiayi....
In general, we must wait for the quarter-finals .....
So far, with certainty we can say (my personal opinion) that Sato will reach the quarterfinals .....

In the Ishikawa-Hirano race, each of them still has a Grand Final .....
Juan Liu is a dark horse candidate to upset Sato. Remember that she is an experienced, ex-CNT player though I don't know how much practice she's had recently vs. choppers. Obviously not on the same level as Sato, but Juan Liu destroyed Angela Guan at the US Nationals last year. I think it will be interesting matchup, and I actually would pick Juan Liu to win that matchup if it happens.

Brs
12-06-2019, 02:19 PM
Paradoxically, Qiang Zhang is probably the one player that zeio dislikes as much as Ishikawa.
Why does zeio dislike her?

Vlad Celler
12-06-2019, 02:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=816&v=fwTDsOx5MPs&feature=emb_logo

LSW vs GUO Yuhan 2018

We wish Hina Hayata happiness and good luck .....

Vlad Celler
12-06-2019, 05:19 PM
Ok ... Miu Hirano overcame the first of the Chinese barriers ..
In a few hours, she and Hina Hayata will play again with Chinese women .....
(a lot of Chinese women ... so far only one has dropped out ....)

CHE Xiaoxi los...

zeio
12-06-2019, 05:40 PM
4 out of 6 CNT ladies in the lower half got wiped out in the 1st round...
WTH was Shibata doing?

Vlad Celler
12-06-2019, 05:45 PM
Lost ... No video .....

zeio
12-06-2019, 06:00 PM
Of the ones on TV tables:
Ishikawa and Hirano played like crap.
Sato was so bored she turned to attacking after G2.
Hashimoto is like usual.

Vlad Celler
12-06-2019, 06:15 PM
That's right ....:o I watched passages .....

NextLevel
12-06-2019, 06:42 PM
Why does zeio dislike her?

Because he sees no future for her like he sees no future for Ishikawa.

yoass
12-06-2019, 06:44 PM
Because he sees no future for her like he sees no future for Ishikawa.

Funny thing, that. This future, nobody has it. There’s only the now. [emoji854]

NextLevel
12-07-2019, 12:42 AM
Hayata stumbles again...

pongfugrasshopper
12-07-2019, 02:04 AM
Hayata stumbles again...
That's painful. She pulled it to deuce from down 4-10, but couldn't complete the comeback.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-07-2019, 02:43 AM
unfortunately for Hayata, its not such a surprise...

I'm not convinced Hirano and Ishikawa are gonna meet in the final

Vlad Celler
12-07-2019, 02:58 AM
Pity....
She had the opportunity to rise above Kato and, possibly, get into the top 20 in the ITTF ranking for January .....

We will wait for the results of the Top 12 and the Empress Cup (All of Japan) ...
How far can she go .....

zeio
12-07-2019, 06:18 AM
This is the 4th time this year Hayata loses a match due to poor receiving.

This is where Ito and Hirano shine. You rarely see them have this much trouble telling the spin. This puts so much pressure on her turn to serve, especially in the endgame. She dropped so many points transitioning b/w FH and BH. She gotta address the relationship between winners and rallies, when to go for broke and when to go for safety. Right now, she is like Ishikawa, who tends to make the wrong judgment when it gets tight (https://youtu.be/y49wMzqK-ao?t=494).

She has so much trouble playing these "viscous" players, basically those with decent serve-n-attack, consistent defense and stable rallies who are good at picking up points here and there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgEuJmaE28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXo4vL9yMR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx73s24dVkU

Hayata could take a page from Hinrao in the R16 match against Zhang Binyue, another "viscous" player. Hirano slowed down the game, varied the pace and cut down her misses. You don't have to go for winners every point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9LY1LyqBgI

Vlad Celler
12-07-2019, 06:50 AM
Of course, Hina Hayata will not see my wishes ...
Nevertheless, I wish her - do not lose heart! Focus so far on the TOP-12, on the Empress Cup!
You finished the year well! The gap between you and Kato is now minimal .... Sato, perhaps by the middle of the next year will also be closer to you ....If all of you are forced to play qualification, your chances will be compared .....
Hayata Hina, happiness and good luck to you!

zeio
12-07-2019, 10:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWpN_PudFjY

pongfugrasshopper
12-07-2019, 11:18 AM
unfortunately for Hayata, its not such a surprise...

I'm not convinced Hirano and Ishikawa are gonna meet in the final

HM has no CNT in her half so highly likely she'll be in the finals (as long as her mind doesn't go blank). IK will have to go through a gauntlet of CNT so I don't like her chances.

Vlad Celler
12-07-2019, 11:34 AM
Only one addition - Ishikawa and Hirano need to not just get to the finals ... .... You need to win this tournament to score extra points in the ranking ....The second place will not give anything .....

Jacky Kwok
12-07-2019, 02:14 PM
But that’s because Hirano has already beaten 2 CNT. So it’s Ishikawa’s turn to meet some CNT in the next few rounds.


HM has no CNT in her half so highly likely she'll be in the finals (as long as her mind doesn't go blank). IK will have to go through a gauntlet of CNT so I don't like her chances.

Vlad Celler
12-07-2019, 03:21 PM
The moment of truth ....
If I remember correctly, Zhang Qian lost only Ito, Hirano and Hayata only once ...
More precisely, Ito won twice, Hayata won once, once lost ...... Hirano, Ishikawa-did not play .....

zeio
12-07-2019, 03:34 PM
Zhang Qiang ate like 6 serves in G1. Ishikawa is gonna win.

Vlad Celler
12-07-2019, 03:55 PM
Congratulations to Ishikawa ... She won easily ....

Sali
12-07-2019, 04:25 PM
Only one addition - Ishikawa and Hirano need to not just get to the finals ... .... You need to win this tournament to score extra points in the ranking ....The second place will not give anything .....
It is more. If any od them lost to lower ranked player besides chinese it will be huge disapointment and will be noticed by Japan headquaters.

zeio
12-07-2019, 04:30 PM
Li Jiayi lives to die another day. Batra did everything she could.

Jacky Kwok
12-07-2019, 04:43 PM
Li Jiayi survived is a bad news for Ishikawa.


Li Jiayi lives to die another day. Batra did everything she could.

zeio
12-07-2019, 05:35 PM
European players fare better here. Jet lag? Beijing is 13 hours ahead right now and Tokyo is 14.

zeio
12-07-2019, 09:33 PM
How did Wang Xiaotong take out Guo Yuhan?

Jacky Kwok
12-07-2019, 10:56 PM
Wow, didn’t expect an all-Japanese semi finals for women’s single. So there is a chance for Ishikawa vs Hirano in the final and that will be exciting.

driversbeat
12-08-2019, 03:03 AM
If Kato wins this she's gonna be the ultimate troll of JNT

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 03:46 AM
If Kato wins the tournament, then JNT will take note of this, of course ...But the decision will be made after the Grand Final and Top 12 ....


I look forward to the information-list of participants in the first round .....

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/tournament/Nationals/2019_pdf/20191114_top12_prospectus.pdf

Sali
12-08-2019, 07:06 AM
Some interesting stats
How many chinese players the beat to reach semifinals
Sato - 0
Others - 2
How many sets they lost:
Ishikawa -1
Kato -4
Sato -5
Hirano -6
Head to head (only what I found on the ittf tours)
Ishikawa vs Kato 1:0
Sato vs Hirano 3:3 (last match Hirano won 4:0)

zeio
12-08-2019, 07:12 AM
https://i.imgur.com/lcUOs3u.png

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 07:17 AM
@zeio looks like Niwa is not in Grand Finals, but Mizutani is.. can he still catch up ?

zeio
12-08-2019, 07:26 AM
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/87/68/e9/8768e9cd23191f3751ccc68b43f61371.gif


Objection! All of this stems from my Idol Ishikawa's refusal to retire and her sidekick Kato's determination to interfere.

https://i.imgur.com/1RYjuWW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BOnGGtp.jpg

zeio
12-08-2019, 07:48 AM
@zeio looks like Niwa is not in Grand Finals, but Mizutani is.. can he still catch up ?

Mizutani's chance of reaching the SF is infinitely close to 0.

From Kurashima's response, the JNT is going to turn a blind eye, given the situation they're in.

https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/table-tennis/1650186/

 そこで、全日本選手権(来年1月13日開幕、大阪)の見どころ解説を行った男子の倉嶋洋介監督(43)に聞くと「どんな状況かっていうのは一応聞いたりしてます。その中で『大丈夫か』とか、声はかけましたけど、特にああしろ、こうしろとは言ってない」。プレーへの影響については「どうなんですかね」と口を閉ざした。かねて東京五輪での引退を口にしているが、身から出たサビを“糧”にして花道を飾ってほしいものだ。

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 07:53 AM
Markham
Motivation:

Ishikawa - to widen the gap in points between himself and Hirano before the Grand Final ...
Hirano - the same task ....
(it will finally be determined who will be second in the JNT and who will be third after the Grand Final anyway ....)
Hayata-there was a chance in case of victory to widen the gap in points with Kato and get close to the top 20 ....Unfortunately, this chance was missed ....
Kato-in case of victory, entry into the top 20 ....
Sato - consolidate its position in the top 20 ....(max. nr. 18-19 in 2020/1)
(Sato after the Grand Final is likely to lose points, but will remain in the top 20 ...)

In 2020, Sato, Kato, Hayata in serious tournaments will be forced to play qualifications, access to the main draw only through Chinese barriers .....

pongfugrasshopper
12-08-2019, 08:30 AM
Today should be interesting especially for Miu Hirano. Her semifinal is the 2nd WS match. She barely squeezed by defender Hashimoto yesterday and today plays Hitomi Sato who is on the short list for best female defender in the world. If she gets by Sato, how much energy would she have left just a few short hours later?

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 08:33 AM
Oh,yes !

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 08:46 AM
Finally our idol will have the last word !

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 08:54 AM
In an extreme case, she still has a really last chance - the Grand Final .....But then the probability is almost close to zero .....

And the third place (WS, Japan) in the ITTF rating after the Grand Final is:
You have to play knockout in the first round of TOP-12 Japan ....In the company of Hayata, Sato, Kato, Honoka, Nagasaki, Kihara .....
(Horror...)

zeio
12-08-2019, 03:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3d_5WDP15I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORCCfTjDQLE

zeio
12-08-2019, 04:37 PM
G4, 10:5, 10:8, TO for Ishikawa, 10:10. Pot Stirrer Kato online. 11:10, 12:11, 13:12, 15:13.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 04:40 PM
How did Kato make it that far ? Her game is really boring. Its a pain to see her play

EDIT

Kasumi our idol wins !!! hope Miu wins and we have the expected showdown !! (won't watch it live, its getting too late here)

zeio
12-08-2019, 04:49 PM
One netizen in China actually made the comment that Kato had the easiest draw a few days ago and it turned out to be right. Well, the upper half became way easier once Hayata got taken out by Guo Yuhan, who in turn got taken out by Wang Xiaotong, and then when Kato took out Li Jiayi, who in turn took out Batra.

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 05:04 PM
Kato and Hayata in the ranking next....
Higher so far - Adriana Diaz, Solja Petrissia and Szocs Bernadette ...
When calculating the February rating, Adriana and Europeans will have deductions of old points for January 2019 ....There is only one tournament in January, Germany Platinum ....
Kato and Hayta have little chance of getting into the Top 20 .....They will not have deductions ....
But of course you must first qualify....And how else will Europeans and Diaz perform ....
But theoretically there is a small chance ....

Sali
12-08-2019, 05:23 PM
In the meantime accuzu playing so relaxed against zhou Kai he made big progress.

Sali
12-08-2019, 06:02 PM
How did Kato make it that far ? Her game is really boring. Its a pain to see her play

EDIT

Kasumi our idol wins !!! hope Miu wins and we have the expected showdown !! (won't watch it live, its getting too late here)
Boring, really???
She took down cheng meng and someones idol hayata. Maybe she does not have powerfull strokes but she is very inteligent and have big ability to change tactics and find opponents weaknesses. She is also quite calm and confident.
I really do not understand how others can always making excuses for Hayata and Hirano loses while always making fun of Ishikawa and Kato.

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 06:19 PM
Kato is a good fighter .... This is not to be taken away from her .....

zeio
12-08-2019, 06:59 PM
That new kick serve by Hashimoto and Sato, especially the latter, really stings. Many players had so much trouble receiving it and in Hirano's case, it broke her flow so bad after G2. She's fortunate to have taken G1 and G3 really quick to force Sato to use it early on so that she could somewhat adapt to it around G5.

Vlad Celler
12-08-2019, 07:03 PM
It was a very good game!

NextLevel
12-08-2019, 08:03 PM
One netizen in China actually made the comment that Kato had the easiest draw a few days ago and it turned out to be right. Well, the upper half became way easier once Hayata got taken out by Guo Yuhan, who in turn got taken out by Wang Xiaotong, and then when Kato took out Li Jiayi, who in turn took out Batra.

Sure. But Ishikawa beat Qiang Zhang more convincingly than Hayata ever did. And Miyu Kato beat Li Jiayi more convincingly than Hayata ever did. At some point, you need to accept that Hayata still has major gaps in her game and stop putting down those people who have other gaps but get the job done.

Sali
12-08-2019, 08:09 PM
Sato had no idea what to do in last two games she stayed too defensive instead of changing tactics especially playing more offensive with FH topspin and make Hirano guessing.
Hirano had the upper hand and deserved to win.

TeoTeoTeo
12-08-2019, 09:54 PM
so does this match determine who gets the 2nd olympic singles place?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 10:20 PM
theres still Grand Finals next week but as seed 10 and 11 they will both face either a top chinese or Ito in the first match

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 10:26 PM
Hirano chokes from 10-8 in the 4th

pongfugrasshopper
12-08-2019, 10:26 PM
Poor end game execution from HM in game 4. Up 10-8 has an easy forehand goes long. Then 10-9 why would you weak push to IK's forehand?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-08-2019, 10:46 PM
Idol wins

quanghuysk
12-08-2019, 10:48 PM
does it mean Kasumi will go for singles in Olympic, Zeio? She's crying

Jacky Kwok
12-09-2019, 12:12 AM
Kasumi is having an advantage over Hirano now. But as Takkyu_wa_inochi said, there’s still Grand Finals next week but they will both face either a top chinese or Ito in the first match. That means both of them will probably be knocked out in the first round. Then Ishikawa will go for single in Olympic.

Simply put, Hirano will need to get 1 more round than Ishikawa in the Grand Finals.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 02:26 AM
Kasumi is having an advantage over Hirano now. But as Takkyu_wa_inochi said, there’s still Grand Finals next week but they will both face either a top chinese or Ito in the first match. That means both of them will probably be knocked out in the first round. Then Ishikawa will go for single in Olympic.

Simply put, Hirano will need to get 1 more round than Ishikawa in the Grand Finals.

That's right ...


Before the Grand Final:

- C.I.C. 11680 gf/1785old result gf-2018/
- F.T. 11610 gf/1530old result gf-2018/
10- Ishikawa 11715 gf/1785old result gf-2018/ (10950 minimum in 2020/1)
11- Hirano 11325 gf/1530old result gf-2018/ (10815 minimum in 2020/1)

pongfugrasshopper
12-09-2019, 03:59 AM
Congratulations Kasumi. She knew what's at stake and seized the moment. Though HM can still win the race between them, IK has put herself in a much better position.

Though it won't be much consolation, to her credit, HM did take down two CNT members this tournament. She was also in a tough position of playing an elite defender just a few hours before the final.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-09-2019, 04:10 AM
Kasumi played some very aggressive FH receives and also in the last deuce took a very agressive pivot FH to score a very important point. She was the most determined player.

In the 4th at deuce, she got a lucky net in her favour. COURAGE + LUCK = VICTORY.

Hirano didn't play with the challenger mentality :-/

I wish Kasumi was able to play a whole match against the Chinese players like she did in the very end of that match. If she did, she'd certainly win more often than she is.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 04:36 AM
pongfugrasshopper

(https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?65756-pongfugrasshopper) Takkyu_wa_inochi

Good assessment of the current situation ....
(https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/member.php?26582-Takkyu_wa_inochi)

Janard
12-09-2019, 04:49 AM
Oh wells, but Hirano would still be part of the Olympics trio right. I mean, she has always been the better half of the Ishirano doubles pair no?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-09-2019, 04:53 AM
yeh the most likely outcome is the team will be those 3. There is still an outside chance of Hayata being chosen for her doubles ability as its quite obvious Ishikawa is a bit hopeless in this discipline. But then its still possible to make an Ito/Hirano pair.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 04:57 AM
yeh the most likely outcome is the team will be those 3. There is still an outside chance of Hayata being chosen for her doubles ability as its quite obvious Ishikawa is a bit hopeless in this discipline. But then its still possible to make an Ito/Hirano pair.

In connection with the latter, it will be interesting to see the JNT application for Germany Platinum ..... Deadline on applications at the end of December .... Who will be declared in the WD and the CD .....

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-09-2019, 05:20 AM
there is also the selection for World Team Championships which happen before the Olympics. I think it's stupid to make this competition in an Olympic year, but hey thats ITTF.

I believe the both the CNT and JNT may not send their best players there.

zeio
12-09-2019, 05:28 AM
https://i.imgur.com/n8TD368.png

https://i.imgur.com/fCZc8sS.jpg

2nd best case scenario for China.

Hayata is out now that Hirano is practically out of the singles race. JNT will be forced to go with Mizutani/Ito for the XD and forgo the MT.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 05:34 AM
Yes ... The current state of affairs favors CNT .....

zeio
12-09-2019, 05:42 AM
Sure. But Ishikawa beat Qiang Zhang more convincingly than Hayata ever did. And Miyu Kato beat Li Jiayi more convincingly than Hayata ever did. At some point, you need to accept that Hayata still has major gaps in her game and stop putting down those people who have other gaps but get the job done.

Ya, right. If we go by the score, Ando should go. That makes so much logical sense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2VwuKmfoig

Janard
12-09-2019, 06:55 AM
A quick silly question. German Open 2019 took place between 10-13 October. German Open 2020 will be held from 28 Jan to 2 Feb. If WR points for each Open is valid for 12 months, does that mean... the points accrued from GO2020 will only be valid in November 2020? Lol. I mean, it will be rather sad for the winners of 2019 to have their 2250 points valid for only three months and the winners of 2020 to have to wait 10 months for their 2250 points to kick in.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 07:07 AM
A quick silly question. German Open 2019 took place between 10-13 October. German Open 2020 will be held from 28 Jan to 2 Feb. If WR points for each Open is valid for 12 months, does that mean... the points accrued from GO2020 will only be valid in November 2020? Lol. I mean, it will be rather sad for the winners of 2019 to have their 2250 points valid for only three months and the winners of 2020 to have to wait 10 months for their 2250 points to kick in.

I believe that the points awarded for the results at ITTF Pro-Tour will be valid for a year ....
No matter where the particular tour was ....Even if, for example, in Germany there were three Tours in one year (theoretically), they do not replace each other ....All results will be valid for one year each ....

NextLevel
12-09-2019, 11:19 AM
Ya, right. If we go by the score, Ando should go. That makes so much logical sense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2VwuKmfoig

Classic zeio. Using a 2018 match to make a 2019 point.

zeio
12-09-2019, 11:50 AM
You're telling me.

https://i.imgur.com/SZS079f.png

NextLevel
12-09-2019, 11:53 AM
You're telling me.

https://i.imgur.com/SZS079f.png

Not sure why you quoted that but I will let others figure it out. Sounds like Ishikawa is close to certifying her position in Olympics singles.

Vlad Celler
12-09-2019, 12:21 PM
And this is a pity ... This is a guaranteed maximum second place in Tokyo ... The first is out of the question ....

zeio
12-09-2019, 01:08 PM
Let me try again. In Chinese sports forums, there's this common term as "一場論", which roughly translates to "judging a player by one match". Post #1147 is a hands-on application of that.

Brs
12-09-2019, 01:29 PM
And this is a pity ... This is a guaranteed maximum second place in Tokyo ... The first is out of the question ....

Let's be real. First place in Tokyo in any event but XD has always been out of the question. And if LSW/XX are healthy XD is out too.

China owns international table tennis. I can kind of understand why that bothers peeps who turn even every individual event like a WT Open into a national contest. But I still think it's stupid. Most sports and games are dominated by one country or a tiny set of countries. Basketball, cricket, gymnastics, track, snooker, swimming, diving, and darts are all ones that come to mind. There are a few exceptions, and table tennis may be an extreme case. But it's a difference in degree and not in kind. And it takes nothing away from the beauty of the game or the incredible skills of the players.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-09-2019, 01:39 PM
Let's be real. First place in Tokyo in any event but XD has always been out of the question. And if LSW/XX are healthy XD is out too.

China owns international table tennis. I can kind of understand why that bothers peeps who turn even every individual event like a WT Open into a national contest. But I still think it's stupid. Most sports and games are dominated by one country or a tiny set of countries. Basketball, cricket, gymnastics, track, snooker, swimming, diving, and darts are all ones that come to mind. There are a few exceptions, and table tennis may be an extreme case. But it's a difference in degree and not in kind. And it takes nothing away from the beauty of the game or the incredible skills of the players.

of course not out of the question, else athletes wouldn't even participate.
Chances are slim but they exist. More chances of upsets in XD than in singles, and more chances in singles than team events. but not nil.

There are only 2 Chinese players in singles. Chances of China not winning is much higher than in WTTC. of course Ito is the challenger #1 in Women's singles but other athletes have an outside chance as well. Ishikawa, but also Doo, Cheng or Feng for example. For men, there are even more serious contenders.

Team Japan is the mean threat for China in the Women's Team, and in the Men's Team, Germany and Korea are the main threats.

in Rio, China Gold medal match wasn't a walk in the park. Mizutani beated XX against all expectations, and the Japanese doubles was very near to win G3 and then who knows what would have happened ? ... With ZJK left to play who was far from being in top form.

NextLevel
12-09-2019, 01:57 PM
Let me try again. In Chinese sports forums, there's this common term as "一場論", which roughly translates to "judging a player by one match". Post #1147 is a hands-on application of that.

Of course. But I didn't look at one match. I looked at a variety of opponents who both Kato and Ishikawa and Hayata had played and noted that when Kato or Ishikawa did well, they were not given credit even though these were precisely the same opponents that Hayata struggled with. The problem is not one match but whether one should continue to make excuses for Hayata when there are no obvious ones to be made. Now we are pointing at the ease of Kato's draw when Kato beat a CNT opponent. Then we will say that Batra wore out Li Jiayi and... it gets tiring at a certain point. Just win or go home.

pongfugrasshopper
12-09-2019, 03:01 PM
Let's be real. First place in Tokyo in any event but XD has always been out of the question. And if LSW/XX are healthy XD is out too.

China owns international table tennis. I can kind of understand why that bothers peeps who turn even every individual event like a WT Open into a national contest. But I still think it's stupid. Most sports and games are dominated by one country or a tiny set of countries. Basketball, cricket, gymnastics, track, snooker, swimming, diving, and darts are all ones that come to mind. There are a few exceptions, and table tennis may be an extreme case. But it's a difference in degree and not in kind. And it takes nothing away from the beauty of the game or the incredible skills of the players.
I don't believe in "out of the question". It's all about probabilities. Though I'll agree that the probabilities are low for Japan for gold most events and extremely low in the teams event. However, Mima Ito has already shown that she's capable of beating *anyone*. If she can draw energy from the crowd, and China's stars succumb to Olympic pressure, gold is possible in singles. It's not just wishful thinking on my part. If gold is reserved for China, then Yoo Nam Kyu, Waldner, and Ryu Seung Min would never have gold medals.

NextLevel
12-09-2019, 05:57 PM
I don't believe in "out of the question". It's all about probabilities. Though I'll agree that the probabilities are low for Japan for gold most events and extremely low in the teams event. However, Mima Ito has already shown that she's capable of beating *anyone*. If she can draw energy from the crowd, and China's stars succumb to Olympic pressure, gold is possible in singles. It's not just wishful thinking on my part. If gold is reserved for China, then Yoo Nam Kyu, Waldner, and Ryu Seung Min would never have gold medals.

People may not know this but home court advantage is a huge deal. I heard that in Seoul, the Koreans had their players stay close to the venue and forced other players to commute a longer distance. Not saying that such stuff will happen in 2020 but home court matters.

pingpongpaddy
12-09-2019, 09:58 PM
The japan 'race to 2020' is providing a bunch of interesting matches. I am glad that Ishikawa has thrown off her inhibitions and shown her best side against Hirano. Its difficult to tell which of Hirano or ishikawa is most likely to do the business in the olympic arena. If in the next few months Japan can consistently field four or five players who threaten China's elite, (ito, hirano, ishikawa,sato, hashimoto). Then China may start to worry. They would probably like to field Chen Meng, Wang Manyu and Sun yingsha. But memories of when Singapore prevailed over Ding Ning, and Liu Shewen, gives them a big problem imho. The experienced players have been defeated too often for comfort, but the young stars though brilliant may not have the steely resolve to handle the occasion.
As far as Hayata's recent performances are concerned, I have a feeling that the coaching staff have instructed her to use the next few tournaments to maximise her aggression with a take no prisoners approach. If she learns to combine her mobility and power to all out intensity with fewer errors, she may soon become clear owner of the number 2 spot on the japanese team, or at the very least she will be a great bet for the doubles.

drunix80
12-09-2019, 10:25 PM
I don't believe in "out of the question". It's all about probabilities. Though I'll agree that the probabilities are low for Japan for gold most events and extremely low in the teams event. However, Mima Ito has already shown that she's capable of beating *anyone*. If she can draw energy from the crowd, and China's stars succumb to Olympic pressure, gold is possible in singles. It's not just wishful thinking on my part. If gold is reserved for China, then Yoo Nam Kyu, Waldner, and Ryu Seung Min would never have gold medals.

I still remember Ryu Seung Min (Mr.Footwork) blasting his way to gold. Heaps of talent with right mental and physical conditioning before the games saw him excel against CNT. And of course that fearless aggressive attitude. So definitely non CNT gold is possible. I would give ITO , Harimoto , LYJ a fair chance of denying CNT. CNT would also face a daunting task of selecting the best single players for the games. If they do select DN and ML for their experience, I think it would by default make everybody else's job much more easier since they are very vulnerable right now.

Brs
12-09-2019, 10:28 PM
.. If she learns to combine ... to all out intensity with fewer errors ...

This is a little bit like saying if Hayata finds the Holy Grail. All out intensity and fewer errrors happens sometimes for a game, rarely for a whole match. SYS, LSW, and Ito have all done it in memorable matches. But it's not really a good career plan.

pingpongpaddy
12-10-2019, 12:55 AM
This is a little bit like saying if Hayata finds the Holy Grail. All out intensity and fewer errrors happens sometimes for a game, rarely for a whole match. SYS, LSW, and Ito have all done it in memorable matches. But it's not really a good career plan.

My suggestion is that she is under orders at the moment to take increased risk. 6 months ago she was not pursuing this path. It’s a bit like a tennis ground stroker deciding to serve volley more. At first you have to force it a bit but if you master it you have a potent weapon

Brs
12-10-2019, 02:31 AM
I see, like the reverse of what FZD has done over roughly the same time period. I hope it works out for her.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 03:44 AM
In the Noon News Program today they spoke for 20mns about Ishikawa and her friends, the NA Open, GF, and Olympics and selection process.

Nishimura a former coach for the JNT girls team (at Athens Olympics) said that for the 3rd spot, ability to form a strong doubles pair will be key and Hayata's name was mentioned (with her photo)

They mentioned the fact that ITO-HAYATA got silver at WTTC 2019 [both Chinese pairs were in the other half and they lost to SYS+WMY in the finals]

driversbeat
12-10-2019, 04:50 AM
Hopefully with the pressure of Singles selection off her shoulders (for the most part?) maybe we can see Ishikawa let go and reach a whole new level. Someone else besides Ito has to step up for Japan to stand a chance against China anyway.

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 05:08 AM
In the Noon News Program today they spoke for 20mns about Ishikawa and her friends, the NA Open, GF, and Olympics and selection process.

Nishimura a former coach for the JNT girls team (at Athens Olympics) said that for the 3rd spot, ability to form a strong doubles pair will be key and Hayata's name was mentioned (with her photo)

They mentioned the fact that ITO-HAYATA got silver at WTTC 2019 [both Chinese pairs were in the other half and they lost to SYS+WMY in the finals]

Many thanks !
Good news!

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 06:43 AM
@driversbeat

the one and only big victory for Mizutani against a top CNT player in a big tournament was against XX in the Team's Gold Medal Match in Rio Games 2016, and that was against all expectations, and only weeks after yet another humiliation (choked in the 7th after a a huge lead and many matchpoints in some ITTF open)

So can we believe that our idol's destiny is to bring gold for Japan after years of frustration with a huge upset on the last and biggest occasion of her life ?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 06:45 AM
Many thanks !
Good news!

this guy is just a commentator now, he doesn't decide anything. But his former colleagues may have the same kind of thinking

----

post NA Open interviews

https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/tabletennis/news/2019/12/008011.html


https://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/tabletennis/news/2019/12/008007.html

igorponger
12-10-2019, 07:50 AM
JAPAN TTA PLANNING A BIG TURMOIL.

Sun Yingsha, Chinese 19 y/o, able to destroy any of the Japanese female candidates.
Both Sung Yingsha and Cheng Meng should climb up on Olympic podium, inevitably
Being aware that DHS H3 rubber is an illicit product, Japan TTA gonna to lodge a protest against DHS rubbers. Clever move of Japan to make a big turmoil in Chinese camp and disturb Chinese composure absolutely .

/Be happy/

darucla
12-10-2019, 07:54 AM
How's Russia looking for the Olympics?

Janard
12-10-2019, 08:41 AM
JAPAN TTA PLANNING A BIG TURMOIL.

Sun Yingsha, Chinese 19 y/o, able to destroy any of the Japanese female candidates.
Both Sung Yingsha and Cheng Meng should climb up on Olympic podium, inevitably
Being aware that DHS H3 rubber is an illicit product, Japan TTA gonna to lodge a protest against DHS rubbers. Clever move of Japan to make a big turmoil in Chinese camp and disturb Chinese composure absolutely .

/Be happy/

Source? It makes little sense that this will be approved though from a business perspective (DHS Hurricane is one of the best-selling rubbers worldwide) and of course from the POV of the players (non-Chinese players use these rubbers too) with less than a year to the Olympics.

zeio
12-10-2019, 11:45 AM
Of course. But I didn't look at one match. I looked at a variety of opponents who both Kato and Ishikawa and Hayata had played and noted that when Kato or Ishikawa did well, they were not given credit even though these were precisely the same opponents that Hayata struggled with. The problem is not one match but whether one should continue to make excuses for Hayata when there are no obvious ones to be made. Now we are pointing at the ease of Kato's draw when Kato beat a CNT opponent. Then we will say that Batra wore out Li Jiayi and... it gets tiring at a certain point. Just win or go home.

OMG, see who's making excuses here.

Not giving credit to Kato and Ishikawa when they do well? I'm sorry, but if they've done well, Ishikawa would've played singles only in the TWC and Kato should've made the team. The point of contention here has always been that Hayata is the best candidate for doubles and a viable alternative in singles, which is what you need for the team event for Tokyo 2020. Even in all the interviews that I've posted the past several months, she knows her ranking will never allow her to play singles and that she's always been aiming for the 3rd spot instead.

But due to the peculiar selection system, the only way for Hayata to make the WT and potentially XD is for Hirano to make the 2nd singles. As it stands, having Niwa and Ishikawa play singles puts the JNT in the second most awkward position as they royally screw up their lineups for MT, WT and XD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rD2mtR5b50

Brs
12-10-2019, 12:09 PM
having Niwa and Ishikawa play singles puts the JNT in the second most awkward position as they royally screw up their lineups for MT, WT and XD.

Wait, wait .... maybe JNT has a master plan here. If they realize they can never compete with CNT on depth, then sacrifice teams and XD, and push all their chips in on Ito in WS, and to a lesser extent Harimoto in MS. If those two don't have to play any doubles, they each have a chance to beat two top CNT if they catch fire at the right time, home crowd, etc. It's not likely, but both have shown it's possible for them.

Jacky Kwok
12-10-2019, 12:27 PM
having Niwa and Ishikawa play singles puts the JNT in the second most awkward position

What’s the most awkward position then?

zeio
12-10-2019, 12:42 PM
C'mon, I thought we've been clear on that.

Ishikawa and Hirano playing singles and Ito playing team.

That's the best lineup for China.

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 01:03 PM
.....Ishikawa and Hirano playing singles and Ito playing team...That's the best lineup for China. .....

:o

zeio
12-10-2019, 01:27 PM
Wait, wait .... maybe JNT has a master plan here. If they realize they can never compete with CNT on depth, then sacrifice teams and XD, and push all their chips in on Ito in WS, and to a lesser extent Harimoto in MS. If those two don't have to play any doubles, they each have a chance to beat two top CNT if they catch fire at the right time, home crowd, etc. It's not likely, but both have shown it's possible for them.

If only it's not Tokyo 2020. Japan is aiming for nothing less than silver medals in singles, team, and XD. Well, that WAS the plan.

Also, LGL has said that the chance of dropping gold is actually the highest for XD. They have only 1 shot.


https://youtu.be/2hRi_20yN_4?t=159

NextLevel
12-10-2019, 01:32 PM
C'mon, I thought we've been clear on that.

Ishikawa and Hirano playing singles and Ito playing team.

That's the best lineup for China.

While we are at it, we could have Hashimoto and Sato playing doubles and Hayata or Kato playing singles. Wouldn't China prefer that?

yoass
12-10-2019, 01:41 PM
How's Russia looking for the Olympics?

Russian players are allowed to compete (for the next four years) only if they somehow manage to prove a they're spotless vis a vis doping programmes, doping programme coverup operations, and doping programme coverup coverup operations, right?

Brs
12-10-2019, 01:44 PM
If only it's not Tokyo 2020. Japan is aiming for nothing less than silver medals in singles, team, and XD. Well, that WAS the plan.

I guess my question is if Japan was given the choice between silver in teams and XD and bronze MS and WS or bronze in MT or WT but gold in XD and WS, what would they choose? Does an individual gold outweigh a team silver and some bronze?

From the US perspective bronze is trash, silver is first loser and only gold is even worth talking about. But Japan may prioritize team results above individual.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 01:49 PM
WS and WT attract more viewers on Japanese TV than XD MS or MT...
They'd attract even more viewers if the girls put more make up or perform with some Cosplay in the stadium

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 02:14 PM
WS and WT attract more viewers on Japanese TV than XD MS or MT...
They'd attract even more viewers if the girls put more make up or perform with some Cosplay in the stadium
..........
:o

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 02:18 PM
I'm not even joking. When there is an event such like WCT, all the girls matches are live. For Men's more often than not, it would be a late replay at night, or worse, just a 2mns summary

yoass
12-10-2019, 02:23 PM
Tell us why, please, Takkyu. Well, me, for I don’t think I get what you’re trying to convey.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 02:30 PM
same reason why J-pop groups like AKB48 attract a huge male audience... :-)

and also it goes back to Ai-chan (Fukahara) who was hugely popular and inspired all the current generation of Japanese girls playing TT.

yoass
12-10-2019, 02:33 PM
You’re alluding to some form of fetishism? It’s a borderline taboo sex thing?

zeio
12-10-2019, 02:33 PM
While we are at it, we could have Hashimoto and Sato playing doubles and Hayata or Kato playing singles. Wouldn't China prefer that?

Well, that's the "hidden obstacle" of this selection system, to prevent something like that from happening. Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano started the year as the top 3 in Japan. These 3 have a huge advantage over the others because they have huge points from playing the WTTC 2018.

Your results from the previous year have a strong bearing on where you start, yet they state in the document that they'll look at results from the current year only. In this sense, the system is actually far from fair.

https://i.imgur.com/n8TD368.png

World Ranking Top 50
1/2019
3 Ishikawa
7 Ito
9 Hirano
12 Sato
15 Shibata
23 Kato
26 Hashimoto
36 Nagasaki
38 Ando
43 Hayata

12/2019
4 Ito
10 Ishikawa
11 Hirano
17 Sato
23 Kato
24 Hayata
32 Shibata
46 Hashimoto

zeio
12-10-2019, 02:42 PM
I'm not even joking. When there is an event such like WCT, all the girls matches are live. For Men's more often than not, it would be a late replay at night, or worse, just a 2mns summary

I get these comments from Japanese netizens about the focus on the women's on my channel as well, such as this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWpN_PudFjY&lc=UgyF-qtPPBkFAFqtQkJ4AaABAg).

Well, TV ratings matter. Japan vs South Korea made the top 10.

https://www.videor.co.jp/tvrating/2019/11/35392.html
https://i.imgur.com/gJmNhj3.png

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 02:46 PM
1/2020
....
18 Sato
...
22 Kato
23 Hayata


(Hitomi Sato is a great defender ... perhaps the strongest in women's table tennis at the moment ....)

NextLevel
12-10-2019, 03:01 PM
Everything is unfair when Hayata doesn't qualify.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-10-2019, 03:03 PM
the jury is not out yet !

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 04:38 PM
Mima Ito

MIMA ITO to take gold at the 2020 Olympic Games in table tennis ?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_XJWOHnWOg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_XJWOHnWOg)

pongfugrasshopper
12-10-2019, 05:13 PM
Fairness is subjective, and we all have our own opinions of what's fair. I don't consider points from T2 to be fair... it's an exclusive tournament where points are added *on top of* a player's best 8. But other's may consider it fair. It's interesting to me from zeio's spreadsheet if you look at Best-8 (not including T2), Hayata (7520) is ahead of both Sato (7495) and Kato (6985). True, Hayata was not successful against Chinese opposition at the NA Open and clearly has work to do, but her record this year vs. CNT is the best among Japanese contenders for 2nd place. Now, this defense of Hayata does not take away from IK, HM, SH, or KM. They all have achievements worthy of praise.

NextLevel
12-10-2019, 06:02 PM
Fairness is subjective, and we all have our own opinions of what's fair. I don't consider points from T2 to be fair... it's an exclusive tournament where points are added *on top of* a player's best 8. But other's may consider it fair. It's interesting to me from zeio's spreadsheet if you look at Best-8 (not including T2), Hayata (7520) is ahead of both Sato (7495) and Kato (6985). True, Hayata was not successful against Chinese opposition at the NA Open and clearly has work to do, but her record this year vs. CNT is the best among Japanese contenders for 2nd place. Now, this defense of Hayata does not take away from IK, HM, SH, or KM. They all have achievements worthy of praise.

Had Kato missed out on the WTTC and T2, she would probably.have played the Challenger tour more and had more points.

Hayata is a good player no doubt, but it gets tiring hearing how she has it so hard and others have it so much easier. Hayata has a lot of growing up to do and she has her opportunities just like everyone else did. The national championship will be her chance to state her case again.

Vlad Celler
12-10-2019, 06:10 PM
I have to pay tribute to the NextLevel and Sali for the balanced characteristics of the players of the JWT ....:o

Sali
12-10-2019, 08:13 PM
Hayata Has a lot of place to improve. She have very good FH and BH, footwork is there and power as well.
That works great for fast players who play simple game. But when the opponent has more varieties she is having hard times.
For instance Kato is young but she has many gears and is very matured comparing to Hayata but her strokes skills are much weaker.
Maturity is very important when we go for big tournament like olympics. In my opinion hayata and Hirano are not matured yet.

pingpongpaddy
12-10-2019, 10:34 PM
Hayata Has a lot of place to improve. She have very good FH and BH, footwork is there and power as well.
That works great for fast players who play simple game. But when the opponent has more varieties she is having hard times.
For instance Kato is young but she has many gears and is very matured comparing to Hayata but her strokes skills are much weaker.
Maturity is very important when we go for big tournament like olympics. In my opinion hayata and Hirano are not matured yet.
Bear in mind Hirano won the Asian Championship beating all china could throw at her. In fact her problem is that asian success caused china to analyse her game very thoroughly, and they have found some answers

Jacky Kwok
12-11-2019, 03:28 AM
Hirano did not just lose to Chinese. Her recent lost to Lily Zhang in Women’s World Cup and to Jeon Jihee in T2 Singapore showed her inconsistence which costed her the Olympic single spot.


Bear in mind Hirano won the Asian Championship beating all china could throw at her. In fact her problem is that asian success caused china to analyse her game very thoroughly, and they have found some answers

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 03:55 AM
It cannot be said yet that Hirano lost the Olympic place ..... It will finally be clear after the Grand Final ....
And after the TOP-12, December 21-22, 2019 .....

driversbeat
12-11-2019, 04:12 AM
Hirano still has the tinest chance. Her first opponent is Wang Yidi and then most likely Chen Xingtong. Kasumi on the other hand faces Liu Shiwen right off the bat and then probably Chen Meng if she makes it through.

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 04:44 AM
Hirano still has the tinest chance. Her first opponent is Wang Yidi and then most likely Chen Xingtong. Kasumi on the other hand faces Liu Shiwen right off the bat and then probably Chen Meng if she makes it through.

Yes ... A prerequisite for Miu Hirano is to go one round further than Ishikawa.

driversbeat
12-11-2019, 04:45 AM
My mistake. Hirano's quaterfinal opponent will probably be Sun Yingsha

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 04:54 AM
But the likelihood that Ishikawa and Hirano lose in the first round is very high ....In this case, Ishikawa will be higher in the January ITTF ranking, and Hirano will have to play in the first round of TOP-12 ....

zeio
12-11-2019, 05:01 AM
Fairness is subjective, and we all have our own opinions of what's fair. I don't consider points from T2 to be fair... it's an exclusive tournament where points are added *on top of* a player's best 8. But other's may consider it fair. It's interesting to me from zeio's spreadsheet if you look at Best-8 (not including T2), Hayata (7520) is ahead of both Sato (7495) and Kato (6985). True, Hayata was not successful against Chinese opposition at the NA Open and clearly has work to do, but her record this year vs. CNT is the best among Japanese contenders for 2nd place. Now, this defense of Hayata does not take away from IK, HM, SH, or KM. They all have achievements worthy of praise.

Let's see what would happen if we look at the Opens only. Nothing else. No invitational events such as Asian Cup and hence no World Cup, no WTTC where Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano have never won the trials (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20392-Japan-Top-12-and-WTTC-2019-Trial-3-2-3&p=263350&viewfull=1#post263350), and by extension no ATTC. Last but not least, no T2.

Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa, would still be ahead in that order, and the point gaps among these 3 would be nearly the same. However, Hayata would be in 4th place and behind by only 715 pts instead of Sato where she trailed by 2700 pts.

https://i.imgur.com/7VU2FLr.png

zeio
12-11-2019, 08:20 AM
A Japanese blogger by the handle kittyyoyaji, likely a female, offers her analysis and interpretations of the selection criteria in a 12-part series (http://kittyoyaji.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-975.html) early this year.

The interesting part starts from Part 5, where she raises the question of fairness when it comes to the 3rd player, that choppers and those lower-ranked players who happen to have the wrong dominant hand never stood a chance from the get-go.

Basically, she argues the existence of an unspoken rule by citing a passage from Miyazaki's new book, "Japanese Table Tennis Overcomes China", published on 2018/10/1. Since the book was published shortly after the selection criteria were released on 2018/09/22, she believes the views expressed by Miyazaki in that passage reflects how the selection criteria would be interpreted by the Development Headquarters, which have the final say on the 3rd player, and of which Miyazaki is the director.

Miyazaki's passage goes like this:


First, out of the 3 representatives, select up to 2 from the top of the world ranking. And the 3rd is a player who can play doubles with either of them. If the top 2 are both right-handed, the top left-handed player should be chosen. If the top 2 dominant hands are split between left and right, choose the player ranked 3rd.
Another thing is that we have the notion that “cutman and attackman (offensive-type players who excel at driving) cannot form doubles.” So, if the top 2 are cutman, the 3rd player is likely to be a cutman. If the top 2 are attackman, the 3rd player is likely to be an attackman.
In this way, unfairness arises unless a certain level of mechanical selection is made.

http://kittyoyaji.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-979.html

⑥東京五輪代表 選考基準2
基準2 団体戦代表1名
基準1の代表候補選手とダブルスが組め、団体戦でシングルス及びダブルスにて活躍が期待できる選手1名

この基準2は 基準1と異なり 裁量そのものの基準である
筆者が素直にこの条文を読むと
シングルス代表に決定した選手2名と過去にダブルスを組んだ成績や相性などを考慮
また 候補選手自身のダブルス成績やシングルス成績も考慮して 1名を選出する
と解釈できる
筆者は自分の解釈において この基準2は十分評価できるし
後述の世界ランク日本女子3位の機械的な適用よりも優れていると認識していた

ところが まったく異なる解釈が提示されたのだ
(ここからは 宮﨑義仁著「日本卓球は中国に打ち勝つ」(とくに166P~170P)を読んで
閲覧者個々人が自分の考えをもって 読み進めてほしい
ここに書いてあるから同調するのでは判断放棄している)
宮﨑義仁強化本部長は代表選考の実質的な責任者と 筆者は認識しているが
卓球協会が代表選考基準を公表した2018/09/22直後に
役職名で同書を発売しているのだから 当然代表選考もこの解釈で行われるのだろう

長くなって恐縮だが 重要な文章なので正確を期しておく
引用
 まず代表3人のうち、2人までは世界ランキングの上位から2人を選ぶ。そして3
番目は、その2人のどちらかとダブルスが組める人だ。上位2人がともに右利きな
ら、左利きで最上位の人を選ぶし、上位2人が左利きなら、次は右利きで最上位の人
を選ぶ。上位2人の利き手が左右に割れていれば、ランキング3番手の人を選ぶ。
 もうひとつ、私たちは、「カットマンと攻撃マン(ドライブを得意とする攻撃型の選手)
はダブルスを組ませられない」という考え方を持っているので、上位2人のうちひと
りがカットマンであれば、3人目はカットマンである可能性が高い。上位2人が攻撃
マンであれば、3人目も攻撃マンである可能性が高い。
 このように、ある程度は機械的に選んでいかないと、不公平が生じる。

https://www.sankei.com/life/news/181228/lif1812280016-n1.html
https://www.sankei.com/images/news/181228/lif1812280016-p1.jpg

https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%8D%93%E7%90%83%E3%81%AF%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AB%E6%89%93%E3%81%A1%E5%8B%9D%E3%81%A4-%E7%A5%A5%E4%BC%9D%E7%A4%BE%E6%96%B0%E6%9B%B8-%E5%AE%AE%E5%B4%8E%E7%BE%A9%E4%BB%81/dp/4396115490
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/810X7pxMicL.jpg

In later parts, she presents different theoretical scenarios how Ishikawa will get selected as the 3rd player over choppers, or those attackers better at doubles, just because she's left-handed and ranked highest. She suggests that Miyazaki might not even realize his own obsession and bias.

http://kittyoyaji.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-982.html

平野美宇(9位)/石川佳純(3位)ペアと伊藤美誠(7位)/早田ひな(42位)ペアの成績を比較してみればよい
両方とも右左ペアだが 平野/石川のほうが個々の順位が高いペアなのに 実績は芳しくない
むしろ 伊藤/石川あるいは平野/早田のほうが過去の成績がよい
石川・平野はシングルス向き選手であって ダブルス巧者ではなく
伊藤・早田はふたりともダブルス巧者なのだ
早田ひなは佐藤瞳とのペアでも短期間であったが好成績を上げている
単なる利き手の右左の組み合わせよりは ふたりの選手がダブルス巧者かどうかのほうがよほど重要なのだ

それはカット型にもいえて HAN YingやSUH Hyowonほかはドライブ型と普通にペアを組んでいる
佐藤瞳や橋本帆乃香がドライブ型とペアを組めないのかは 協会主導で試せばよいのであって
何もしないで代表選考から除外するのは むしろ協会の怠慢なのだ
そうはいっても 現実問題として団体戦にカット型が加わること ダブルスを組むことを不安視する
卓球経験者は多いかもしれない 筆者も不安はある
...
つまり 右左ペア限定とは 右利き選手はどんなにランクが高くても最大2名に抑えて
左利き選手はどんなにランクが低くても 1名を確保するということだ
本来なら トップ16選手ほどが 右利きも左利きもカット型もドライブ型も
同じ土俵で優劣を競うのが代表選考であるべきなのに
カット型は1位か2位とハードルを高く限定され
右利き選手はどんなにランクが高くても最大2枠を9名で競うのに対して
左利き選手はどんなにランクが低くても最低1枠を確保されて 3名で競うだけだ
これが公平であるというのは相当無理があると 筆者は思う
宮﨑強化本部長は機械的に選べば公平だと思いこんでいるようだが
その条件自体が恣意的なものならば 機械的に選ぼうが公平は保証されない

Compare the results between Hirano(9th)/Ishikawa(3rd) and Ito(7th)/Hayata(42th)
Both are right-left pairs, but Hirano/Ishikawa is the pair with the higher individual ranking, yet the results are not good.
OTOH, Ito/Ishikawa or Hirano/Hayata have better results
Ishikawa and Hirano are singles players, not doubles masters
Both Ito and Hayata are doubles masters
Hayata performed well pairing with Sato for a short period
It’s more important to see if the 2 players are doubles players than just the right-/left-handedness

The same can be said for cut-type, where HAN Ying, SUH Hyowon and others are usually paired with drive-type
Whether Sato Hitomi and Hashimoto Honoka cannot pair with drive-type should be tried by the association's initiative
Doing nothing and excluding it from the representative selection is rather an association's neglect
That said, I'm concerned about the practical problems of including cut-type for team event and the pairing for doubles
Perhaps many people have played table tennis, and I'm worried too

However, cut-type players who came in 3rd shouldn’t be ruled out
You should lament the lack of ability for those placed 4th and below
...
In other words, right-left pair limit means that right-handed players are limited to a maximum of 2 no matter how high the ranking is
No matter how low, 1 left-handed player is guaranteed
Originally, there are right-handed, left-handed, cut and drive in the top 16 players
Although the representative selection should be about superiority and inferiority in the same competition
The cut type is limited to high hurdles as 1st or 2nd place
9 right-handed players compete for up to 2 slots no matter how high the ranking is
At least 1 slot is reserved for a left-handed player no matter how low the ranking is, with only 3 players competing for it
The author thinks that this is very unreasonable
It seems that Miyazaki, director of Development Headquarters, thinks that it is fair if he chooses mechanically
If the conditions themselves are arbitrary, choose mechanically but fairness is not guaranteed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1LXUI_QGNw

http://kittyoyaji.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-984.html

これからの1年を 優遇される選手はこれまで通りやればよいとして
除外を明言された選手たちはその不安に耐えていくのだ
実際の選考以前に 代表争いを目前にしてすでに 彼女たちの精神面に大きな負担を強いられた
宮﨑強化本部長がそれを意図したとは考えないが
スタートから精神面の大きなハンデ戦は平等な競争といえるのかどうか
...
選手も関係者も無言を貫くとすれば 誰かが声を上げる必要があるのだろう
卓球の経験もない素人の筆者は
blogやtwitterでスポーツ関連の妄想を書き散らかして面白がっているだけだが
今回ばかりは多少の使命感に駆られたとしても 卓球の神様のバチは当たらないだろう

言葉というものは
権威者や有名人が発したから残るのではない
真実の言葉は
誰にも打ち消すことはできず 真実であるかぎり生き残る
その発言者がたとえ無力者や無名人であっても
In the coming year, it would be nice if the favored players can continue to do so.
Players who have been explicitly excluded are suffering from this uneasiness.
Before the actual selection, the fight for the representatives is already imminent, and they have already beared a great burden mentally.
I don't think Miyazaki of Development Headquarters intended it, but can the big obstacle course that's played on a spiritual level from the beginning be regarded as a fair competition?
...
If both players and officials are silent, someone will need to speak up
An amateur writer who has no experience in table tennis
It’s just interesting to write about sports-related delusions on blogs and twitter
Even if you are driven by a little sense of mission this time, the punishment of Table Tennis God will not hit

Words are
It doesn't remain because it originated from authority and celebrity
The word of truth is
No one can negate and which will survive as long as it is true
Even if the speaker is helpless or anonymous

http://kittyoyaji.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-986.html

〇付録
宮﨑義仁強化本部長への10の質問

質問
1 伊藤美誠(シングルス選出1)
2 平野美宇(シングルス選出2)

3 佐藤瞳(カット型除外)
4 芝田沙季(右利き3人目除外)
5 加藤美優(右利き3人目除外)
6 橋本帆乃香(カット型除外)
7 石川佳純(左利き1人目)
仮に上記の場合
団体要員は石川選手が選出される
この選出は公平なのでしょうか?

質問
五輪代表選考基準2に
カット型の3番手除外・右利き(左利き)3人目の除外を
明文化すべきではないでしょうか?
これほど選手への影響が甚大な条件は
オープンな場で執行部の責任を明確にすべきで
密室の話し合いで適用されるべきではありません 

質問
人数の多い右利き選手たちはどれほどランクが高くても 2枠に制限を受け
3分の1程度の数の左利き選手たちはどれほどランクが低くても 1枠が確保される
この競争が平等である根拠はなんでしょうか?

質問
確実に選出される左利き1番手選手は
具体的に 日本女子何位まで救済されるのでしょうか?
10位内ですか 20位内ですか?

質問
リオ五輪の団体要員は日本女子3位ならカット型選手も代表に選出されたのに
カット型選手が日本女子3位に手が届く位置まで来た東京五輪は 選考から除外される
この変更の理由を教えてください

質問
リオ五輪団体戦 日本チーム
石川佳純(左)シングルス2点 福原愛(右)/伊藤美誠(右)ペア
石川選手がいるにもかかわらず 右左ペアのセオリーを無視したチーム戦略に対しての
見解を教えてください
...
質問
右左ペアでないと団体戦を戦えないというのは
単に指揮する監督の能力が低いだけではないですか?
村上恭和元代表監督が復帰すれば
右左ペアでなくとも問題ないでしょう

質問
カット型や同一利き手3人目の除外を著作で公表したことで 排除される選手たちには
選考争い以前にすでに 精神面へ不安という大きな負担を強いられました
優遇される選手との この大きなハンデ戦は公平といえるのでしょうか?

質問
結局 全選手の結果を数値化した世界ランクの前では
ある意図をもった選考条件はその不自然さが際立つだけではありませんか?
現協会執行部がその不自然さをもちこたえられるとは 思えませんが
〇 Appendix
10 questions for Yoshihito Miyazaki

Question
1 Ito (Singles selection 1)
2 Hirano (Singles selection 2)

3 Sato (cut type excluded)
4 Shibata (Right-handed 3rd person excluded)
5 Kato (Right-handed 3rd person excluded)
6 Hashimoto (cut type excluded)
7 Ishikawa (left-handed 1st person)
In the above case
Ishikawa is elected as a team member
Is this election fair?

Question
To Olympic team selection criteria 2
Exclusion of cut-type/right-handed(left-handed) player who comes in 3rd
Shouldn't it be written clearly?
The conditions that have such a huge impact on players
The responsibility of the executive committee should be clarified in an open space
It should not be applied behind doors

Question
Right-handed players in such a large number are limited to 2 slots no matter how high the ranking
About 1/3 of left-handed players will get 1 slot no matter how low the ranking
Where is the basis for the equality of competition?

Question
The 1st left-handed player will definitely be selected
Specifically, how many Japanese girls will be rescued?
Are you ranked within the top 10 or top 20?

Question
A cut-type player who came in 3rd would be selected as a team member for the Rio Olympics
Yet for the Tokyo Olympics, a cut-type player in 3rd place will be excluded from the selection
Please tell us the reason for this change

Question
Rio Olympic team game Japan team
Ishikawa (left-handed), 2 singles, Fukuhara (right-handed)/Ito (right-handed) for doubles
Despite the presence of Ishikawa, the team strategy for ignoring the theory of the left-right pair
Please tell us your opinion
...
Question
The fact that you can’t fight in team event without a right/left pair
Isn't it just because the ability of the director to lead is low?
If former director Murakami returns,
It doesn’t matter if it’s not a right/left pair.

Question
Since your publication explicitly states that those cut-type and/or same-dominant hand players who come in 3rd will be excluded
Before the selection competition has even started, they are already forced to bear a heavy burden of mental anxiety
Compared to the favored players, is this big obstacle fair?

Question
After all, the results of all the top players in world ranking could be quantified
Wouldn't the selection condition with a certain intention stand out from its unnaturalness?
I don't think the current executive committee of the association will be able to withstand this unnaturalness.

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 08:25 AM
Thank !!!

driversbeat
12-11-2019, 10:52 AM
Imo the Fukuhara/Ito pairing was Japan's downfall in Rio. Also considering how conservative JNT has been so far it wouldn't surprise me if they picked 3 of the most highly ranked right-handers if such a situation did present itself.

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 11:30 AM
//// 3 of the most highly ranked right-handers ////
3 right - hande ?

NextLevel
12-11-2019, 12:11 PM
Bear in mind Hirano won the Asian Championship beating all china could throw at her. In fact her problem is that asian success caused china to analyse her game very thoroughly, and they have found some answers

If we are going back to 2017 to decide what should happen in 2020 without weighting such events appropriately, something is not right.

NextLevel
12-11-2019, 12:13 PM
Let's see what would happen if we look at the Opens only. Nothing else. No invitational events such as Asian Cup and hence no World Cup, no WTTC where Ishikawa, Ito and Hirano have never won the trials (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?20392-Japan-Top-12-and-WTTC-2019-Trial-3-2-3&p=263350&viewfull=1#post263350), and by extension no ATTC. Last but not least, no T2.

Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa, would still be ahead in that order, and the point gaps among these 3 would be nearly the same. However, Hayata would be in 4th place and behind by only 715 pts instead of Sato where she trailed by 2700 pts.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tabletennisdaily.com%2Fforum%2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fi.imgur.com%252F7VU2FLr.png

Such comparisons, like I mentioned earlier when someone compared Hayata and Kato, do not do justice to the fact that the higher ranked players do play fewer events partly because they have those invitations and better seeding.

Jacky Kwok
12-11-2019, 03:08 PM
No matter how much we love Hayata, we always know JNT will 90% send Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa for Olympic team event. You can tell when they keep trying Hirano/Ishikawa WD pair in the recent half year, but didn’t try Hirano/Hayata combination this year at all (did they?)

Then honestly speaking, Hirano and Ishikawa should have similar chance on getting Olympic single medal which depends a lot on their seeding.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-11-2019, 03:19 PM
whats sad for Hirano is that 2024 is so far away and if Ishikawa should get out of the picture, in addition to her current rivals Hayata, Sato, Hashimoto, Kato, there is Kihara, Nagasaki, Harimoto and others who are going to be competitive...

I've listened to some interviews of Hirano and it wouldn't be very surprising if she gave up TT at a very young age. I hope not

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 03:33 PM
No matter how much we love Hayata, we always know JNT will 90% send Ito, Hirano and Ishikawa for Olympic team event. You can tell when they keep trying Hirano/Ishikawa WD pair in the recent half year, but didn’t try Hirano/Hayata combination this year at all (did they?)

Then honestly speaking, Hirano and Ishikawa should have similar chance on getting Olympic single medal which depends a lot on their seeding.


In other words, JNT has already made a choice - A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush....:(

....You can tell when they keep trying Hirano/Ishikawa WD pair in the recent half year, but didn’t try Hirano/Hayata combination this year at all (did they?) ...

Here in Germany Platinum will be seen what the position of the JNT ..... Who will be declared in the WD and XD ....

Vlad Celler
12-11-2019, 03:36 PM
I also heard in an interview that she (Miu Hirano) plans to leave when she reaches 25 ...
(although perhaps this is a translation inaccuracy?)

pongfugrasshopper
12-11-2019, 09:40 PM
WTGF draws are out. IK meets LSW, and HM meets WYD. According to ITF H2H stats, IK has never beaten LSW in 11 tries. HM lost her one match up with WYD at this year's German Open.

daejoons
12-11-2019, 10:54 PM
To what extent is this the last chance for Hirano to make the singles? Do the results of the Top 12 event in Japan affect the decision at all?

If not then Hirano will need to muster 110% against Wang...

pongfugrasshopper
12-12-2019, 12:48 AM
To what extent is this the last chance for Hirano to make the singles? Do the results of the Top 12 event in Japan affect the decision at all?

If not then Hirano will need to muster 110% against Wang...
For Olympic Singles it's only based on ITTF World Ranking for calendar year 2019. Top 12 will matter for the 3rd spot.

zeio
12-12-2019, 01:15 AM
Such comparisons, like I mentioned earlier when someone compared Hayata and Kato, do not do justice to the fact that the higher ranked players do play fewer events partly because they have those invitations and better seeding.

https://i.imgur.com/vJLyVfq.jpg

The whole point of having this comparison is to show the huge edge, even without all these extra points, that the top few enjoy over the others merely because they have a much higher starting point on the world ranking, which is why they don't have to play as much in the first place.


...

Ishikawa, Ito, Hirano have been seeded year long and will until the year end. Sato, Kato and Hashimoto were seeded until Czech Open. Sato was seeded again in German Open because some of the top CNT players took breaks.

OTOH, Hayata and Shibata have had to play 3 to 4 rounds of qualification to reach the main draw. Get them all to start from qualification and see how many of them make the main draw.

----------------------

Did some lookups. I mixed up Kato and Shibata.

It was Shibata that was seeded until Czech Open. Kato was seeded only in Bulgaria Open and Czech Open.

That makes Hayata the only one among the top 8 on the JNT to start in prelim all year long.

zeio
12-12-2019, 01:42 AM
For Olympic Singles it's only based on ITTF World Ranking for calendar year 2019. Top 12 will matter for the 3rd spot.

Japan Top 12 won't matter. It's only used to determine 1 spot of the team for WTTC 2020. It's in the title of the competition.

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/tournament/Nationals/2019_pdf/20191114_top12_prospectus.pdf

LIONカップ第24回卓球ジャパントップ12 SENDAI
(兼2020世界卓球日本代表最終選考会)
LION Cup 24th Table Tennis Japan Top 12 SENDAI
(And 2020 WTTC Japan National Team Final Trial)

In the selection criteria for WTTC 2020, the 3rd player for Tokyo 2020 and winner of Japan Top 12 are listed separately.

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/player/selection/20190926_h31_wttcpus.pdf

1.男女代表選手の選考方法
(1)代表選手の人数は5名とし、以下の基準を満たした者の中から選出する。
①第32回オリンピック競技大会(2020/東京)卓球競技に出場するシングルス代表候補選手[2名]※2020年1月発表の世界ランキング
②第32回オリンピック競技大会(2020/東京)卓球競技団体代表候補選手[1名]※2020年1月6日(月)発表
③2020年全日本卓球選手権大会シングルス優勝者[1名]※2020年1月19日(日)決定
④国内最終選考会の優勝者[1名](2019年12月21日:仙台市)

(2)上記①~④により選出された人数に、同一選手が重複して選出されるなどして5名に満たない場合は、次の2点を勘案し強化本部にて選手を選出する。
※2020年1月28日(火)発表
・2019年1月以降の主要国際大会の実績と内容の評価
・国際競争力向上への高い潜在性があると思われる選手の評価
1. Selection method for male and female players
(1) The number of representative athletes shall be 5 and selected from those who meet the following criteria:
① Singles candidates for the 32nd Olympic Games (2020 / Tokyo) Table Tennis [2 players] * World ranking announced in January 2020
② 32nd Olympic Games (2020 / Tokyo) table tennis team representative candidate [1 person] * announced on January 6, 2020
③ 2020 All Japan Table Tennis Championships singles winner [1 person] * Determined on Sunday, January 19, 2020
④ Domestic final trial winner [1 person] (December 21, 2019: Sendai City)

(2) If the number of players selected by ① to ④ above is less than 5 due to the same player being selected more than once, the player will be selected by the Development Headquarters considering the following 2 points:
※ Announced January 28, 2020
・ Evaluation of achievements and contents of major international competitions since January 2019
・ Evaluation of players who seem to have high potential to improve international competitiveness

zeio
12-12-2019, 02:02 AM
whats sad for Hirano is that 2024 is so far away and if Ishikawa should get out of the picture, in addition to her current rivals Hayata, Sato, Hashimoto, Kato, there is Kihara, Nagasaki, Harimoto and others who are going to be competitive...

I've listened to some interviews of Hirano and it wouldn't be very surprising if she gave up TT at a very young age. I hope not

No way will my Idol get out of the picture. She's determined to stir the pot for another 12 years. So watch out, Miwa Harimoto!


https://youtu.be/wTHBMWAUKzY?list=PL9EFgw_X3V0yHoqKg-CrfxsExYtixyz1r

Janard
12-12-2019, 03:39 AM
Is Miwa showing promise? I don't watch her play but I did catch an interview wherein she said her idol is LSW. So is she gonna be another Hirano?

zeio
12-12-2019, 04:30 AM
Record-wise, she's keeping up with Ito and Hirano when they were small.

driversbeat
12-12-2019, 05:33 AM
No way will my Idol get out of the picture. She's determined to stir the pot for another 12 years. So watch out, Miwa Harimoto!


https://youtu.be/wTHBMWAUKzY?list=PL9EFgw_X3V0yHoqKg-CrfxsExYtixyz1r

I bet Hirano had a WDF moment when she heard Ishikawa say that

zeio
12-12-2019, 05:47 AM
Check out the crowd reaction in the full version.


https://youtu.be/Fybfn3tmHEk?t=610

driversbeat
12-12-2019, 05:51 AM
Check out the crowd reaction in the full version.


https://youtu.be/Fybfn3tmHEk?t=610

"Bitch don't you dare" stare from Kato

zeio
12-12-2019, 12:11 PM
For the sake of completeness.

Retire, Ishikawa.

https://i.imgur.com/1fUFrmg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2h1rGdD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Soch1mk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/waFn19M.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6Rmyk1z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3LxpuXj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9omsH6L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DdHnQxm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pGsx45n.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ePsUzRF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ihi8BUO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uOkjzEy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SJ1MBLs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WZ6wEBs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RcfzpH0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9LnlOIg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/geHMzQn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sFdzksE.jpg

Jacky Kwok
12-12-2019, 03:19 PM
According to ITTF’s Weibo post, JTTA will announce their Olympic lineup on Jan 6th, 2020.

silvershamaa
12-13-2019, 02:06 AM
They should really send Hitomi Sato as the 2nd singles spot to Tokyo 2020

zeio
12-13-2019, 04:31 AM
Posting this again for sake of completeness.


ITO won 3-2 against CHOI but personally i never felt she was in danger against her or SHIN YB it was more about ITO not being focused than her opponents playing like a top10 player.

I think next time they'll get 3-0 and that Kasumi will spend more time training in doubles

some stats about CHOI and who beat her since the Qatar Open (not going further it doesn't display on the same page)
Minnie SOO
Haruna OJIO
Sakura MORI
Sofia POLCANOVA

she is definitely not a terror

for SHIN Yubin
Hana MATELOVA
Hina HAYATA
Miyu KATO
Ganna GAPONOVA
Anastasia KOLISH
Satsuki ODO
Adriana DIAZ
Honoka HASHIMOTO...

you get the picture... ITO did 3 drop 3 games in total to these 2 players, but its not about these players being strong but about ITO not being in her best (mental) form, and still when she needed to up her game, she managed to do it and win easily

As I've stressed over the years, stats don't matter when it comes to the major. Yoo Namkyu knew they were the underdog. Choi Hyojoo and Shin Yubin served the role of what would be called 奇兵 in Chinese, loosely "surprise soldier". It's in the news. They had no chance with Suh Hyowon and Yang Haeun. Many in China praise Yoo Namkyu for his grit.

http://mpop.heraldcorp.com/view.php?ud=201911122159360427243_1

지난 9일 도쿄에서 열린 국제탁구연맹(ITTF) 팀 월드컵 여자부 준결승에서 유남규 감독은 선수시절 별명이었던 ‘꾀돌이’다운 깜짝 오더로 세계 2위 일본을 당황하게 만들었다. 붙박이 주전이었던 서효원(32 한국마사회)과 양하은(25 포스코에너지)을 빼고, 최효주(21 삼성생명), 신유빈(청명중)을 기용했다. 신유빈은 전지희(27 포스코에너지)와 짝을 이뤄 제1복식을 따냈고, 최효주는 2단식에서 일본의 에이스 이토 미마를 거의 잡을 뻔했다(게임스코어 2-3 패). 이어 신유빈은 4단식에서 이토 미마를 상태를 첫 게임을 뺏는 등 선전을 펼쳤다(1-3 패). 이토 미마를 만나면 ‘그냥 서 있다 들어온다’는 혹평을 들었던 이전 선배들과는 사뭇 달랐다.

“(신)유빈을 보면 36년 전 제가 떠올라요. 한국탁구에서 보물 같은 존재이기 때문에 정말 잘 키우고 싶죠. 정성을 다해 가르치고, 때로는 ‘그렇게 하려면 집에 가라’고 불호령을 내릴 정도로 혼도 내죠. 저도 초등학생 탁구선수 딸이(유예린) 있는데, 유빈이가 눈물을 글썽이면 가슴이 아프지만 그렇게 합니다. 중요한 건 유빈이가 가능한 시행착오를 줄여서 저보다 빨리 세계제패를 할 수 있도록 성장하는 겁니다. 잘 성장하고 있는 유빈이도 고맙고, 출전을 양보한 서효원, 양하은 두 선수에게 진심으로 고맙습니다.”

한국 탁구는 고비를 맞고 있다. 남자는 아직 중국에 이어 세계 2위권을 유지하고 있지만, 여자는 ‘아시아 8위’가 말해주듯 대표팀 경기력이 뚝 떨어져 있다. 유남규 감독은 가장 어려운 시기에 여자 대표팀 지휘봉을 잡고 있는 것이다. 어려운 처지지만 유남규 감독은 ‘원팀’, ‘올림픽까지 무한경쟁’, ‘무조건 훈련’ 등을 내세우며 여자대표팀의 전력을 조금씩 끌어올리고 있다.

예컨대 ‘귀화 에이스’ 전지희에게는 “여기는 소속팀이 아니라, 대표팀이다. 특별대우는 없다. 제대로 하라”며 엄하게 대했고, ‘전지희가 달라졌다’는 얘기가 나올 정도가 됐다. 서효원도 일본과의 준결승에서 경기에 나서지 못했지만, 조금도 서운해하지 않고 “마치 코치 같다”는 얘기가 나올 정도로 벤치에서 후배들을 열렬히 응원했다. 진천선수촌의 여자대표팀 훈련 분위기 자체가 달라졌다. 그리고 무엇보다 이 과정에서 신유빈이 아주 빠르게 성장하고 있다.
Courtesy of Google Translate:
In the semi-final of the International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF) Team World Cup Women's Semifinal held in Tokyo on the 9th, Yoo Nam-kyu embarrassed Japan, the world's second-largest, with a surprise order, which was his nickname as a player. With the exception of Seo Hyo-won (32 Korean Horse Association) and Yang Ha-eun (25 POSCO ENERGY), which were built-in contests, Choi Hyo-ju (21 Samsung Life) and Shin Yu-bin (Chung Myung-jung) were used. Shin Yoobin paired with Jeon Ji-hee (27 POSCO ENERGY) and won the first double, and Choi Hyo-joo almost caught Japan's Ace Ito Mima in the second stage (game scores 2-3). Shin Yoo-bin made a public debut by losing his first game to Ito Mima in the fourth stage (1-3 loss). When I met Mito Ito, it was quite different from the previous seniors who had been criticized for “just standing in.”

“When I look at (Shin) Yubin, I think of me 36 years ago. I want to grow really well because it is a treasure in Korean table tennis. I teach them with all my heart, and sometimes I am disgusted to say, "To do this, go home." I also have a daughter of elementary school table tennis player (Ye-Rin). What's important is that Yubin grows to be able to dominate the world faster than me by reducing possible trial and error. I'm grateful for Yu Bin, who is growing well, and I'm really grateful to Seo Hyo-won and Yang Ha-eun, who both gave up their appearance. ”

Korean table tennis is in a hurry. Men are still second in the world after China, but women are falling short of the national team's performance, as the eighth place in Asia says. Yoo Nam-kyu is holding the women's national team baton in the most difficult time. Despite the difficult situation, director Yoo Nam-kyu is gradually increasing the women's national team by promoting `` One Team, '' `` Infinite Competition to the Olympics, '' and `` Unconditional Training. ''

For example, Jeon-hee Jeon, “Naturalization Ace,” said, “This is not a team, but a national team. There is no special treatment. Do it right. ”It was enough to say that 'Jeon Hee-hee has changed'. Seo Hyo-won also failed to play in the semi-finals against Japan, but he was not too sad to cheer up the juniors on the bench enough to say “just like a coach”. The atmosphere for training women's teams in Jincheon Athletes Village has changed. And above all, Shin Yu-bin is growing very fast.

----------
For those who haven't kept up with the Korean news, Shin Yubin's parents have decided their daughter will go pro full-time after junior high (http://biz.heraldcorp.com/sports/view.php?ud=201906302010076360772_1). Yes, she will not even go to high school. Yoo Namkyu sees great potential in her and will polish her.

Janard
12-13-2019, 04:46 AM
Omg how can ML's challenge be unsuccessful? The point of contact was very visible from the replay.

zeio
12-13-2019, 04:49 AM
That's not how the current rule should be interpreted. Once it was contact that should remain visible. Now, the ball should remain visible at all times.

Janard
12-13-2019, 04:56 AM
That's not how the current rule should be interpreted. Once it was contact that should remain visible. Now, the ball should remain visible at all times.

I see, though that makes little sense to me. Maybe it's time for ML to bring his Beijing backhand serves out. That's textbook visible right hah.

zeio
12-13-2019, 04:58 AM
Well, that BH serve cost him at the WTTC 2009 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Y0Pj9dsxw).

The current "triangular space between ball and net" is defined such that it's easier to enforce.

quanghuysk
12-13-2019, 06:56 AM
pls send Nagasaki and Kihara to OP, always smile while playing. I'm in love with them!!!! Bye bye Sun and Wang, poor Li Sun again

Jacky Kwok
12-13-2019, 08:12 AM
They still need to consider seeding. With Ito, Nagasaki and Kihara trio, I am not sure if they can be seed number 2 safely.

zeio
12-13-2019, 09:40 AM
https://youtu.be/OodIu5EzQCI?t=250

Vlad Celler
12-13-2019, 09:51 AM
Damn .. I'm really sorry Miu Hirano ... I'm ready to cry myself ...

zeio
12-13-2019, 11:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL_jV5280sI

zeio
12-13-2019, 06:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXw8Dct0lBc

Jacky Kwok
12-14-2019, 12:20 PM
I suddenly think about a butterfly effect: Wang Chuqin threw his racket which caused Mizutani to lose his Olympic single spot. Understand the connection? LOL

zeio
12-14-2019, 04:41 PM
JNT Player Stats 2019
Ito - serve-n-attack, the shorter the point, the higher the threat/risk
Hirano - reckless speedy exchanges, took everyone by surprise, too fast for her own good
Hayata - best of both worlds, powerful rallies and agile footwork a big plus
Ishikawa - jack of all trades, master of none, AKA "Please Retire"

Ta da!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5khmy7C3WbA

Vlad Celler
12-14-2019, 05:12 PM
.....JNT Player Stats 2019
Ito - serve-n-attack, the shorter the point, the higher the threat/risk
Hirano - reckless speedy exchanges, took everyone by surprise, too fast for her own good
Hayata - best of both worlds, powerful rallies and agile footwork a big plus
Ishikawa - jack of all trades, master of none, AKA "Please Retire"

amazing ! :o

(Damn it ... Well, I just feel sorry for her to tears ......God ... If you really exist ... Well, why did you give Ishikawa second place ?!)

zeio
12-14-2019, 06:18 PM
Final update.

https://i.imgur.com/NZR0ITZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/qbGjUwl.png

Vlad Celler
12-14-2019, 06:38 PM
2020/1


C.M. 16265
SUN Yingsha 15460
ITO Mima 14720
L.S.W. 14445
WANG Manyu 14130
Z.Y.L. 12990
D.N. 12670
F.T. 11100
ISHIKAWA Kasumi 10950
CHENG I-Ching 10915
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11- HIRANO Miu 10815
12- CHEN Xingtong 10325
13- Yidi 9910
...............
17-SATO Hitomi 8550
18-HE Zhuojia 8480
19-SZOCS Bernadet 7910
20-SOLJA Petrissia 7885
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
21-DIAZ Adriana 7820
22-KATO Miyu 7585
23-HAYATA Hina 7520

Janard
12-15-2019, 02:56 AM
Hirano is really following the footsteps of her idol LSW. I still remember how LSW's speed was a double-edged sword sometimes. Maybe 10 years down the road, Hirano will win the WTTC Women's Singles if she continues mimicking.

Also, I was curious how far along did T2 interfere with the WR so I deducted all these bonuses (using Vlad's calculations):

Chen Meng 15055-15265
Liu Shiwen 14445
Sun Yingsha 13960
Mima Ito 13520
Wang Manyu 12630-12840
Zhu Yuling 11590
Ding Ning 11470
Feng Tianwei 10200
Kasumi Ishikawa 10150
Cheng I-Ching 10115
Miu Hirano 10015
Chen Xingtong 9825
Wang Yidi 9510
He Zhuojia 9355

LSW is probably the biggest victim of T2 then it seems, dropping to 4th in January with Ito before her. If CNT does intend to field the two Singles from among the trio of CM, SYS and LSW, the former two will likely be picked to avoid the possibility of being drawn into the same half now that separation by association is not guaranteed.

zeio
12-15-2019, 04:51 AM
I suddenly think about a butterfly effect: Wang Chuqin threw his racket which caused Mizutani to lose his Olympic single spot. Understand the connection? LOL

Racketgate? Austriagate? OTH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Tampines_Hub)gate?

Ishikawa and Niwa should be grateful to Miyasaki, who is a technical consultant of the T2 in charge of all the rules (https://hochi.news/articles/20190723-OHT1T50081.html) and proposed the 24-minute rule and 1 serve per turn etc.

pongfugrasshopper will be glad to find out there's at least 1 blogger from Japan who agrees with him. This entry was back in September.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nt_tabletennisclub/archives/53801299.html

ITTF世界ランキングシステムには不公平な要素があります。
(1)世界選手権に出場した選手は次の世界選手権があるまで、1年間を過ぎても世界選手権の獲得ポイントを維持できる。
(2)T2ダイヤモンドに出場した選手はその獲得ポイントが8試合分の獲得ポイントにさらに加算される。

このような不公平な要素があるITTF世界ランキングをオリンピックの選考基準に取り入れるのはどうなのでしょうかね?
疑問を持つ方は多いのではないでしょうか?そうかといって、日本卓球協会の強化本部が独断で代表を決めるのも問題ですしねー!
The ITTF world ranking system has unfair elements.
(1) A player who participated in the World Championship can maintain the World Championship points even after one year until the next World Championship.
(2) Players who participated in T2 diamonds will receive additional points for the 8 games.

How do you incorporate ITTF world rankings with such unfair elements into the Olympic selection criteria?
There are many people who have doubts. That said, it is also a problem that the development headquarters of the Japan Table Tennis Association decides the representative on its own!

----------------
After missing out in the singles, in an interview, Mizutani expresses that the decision of representatives is "unrelated to my efforts."

https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2019/12/14/0012959187.shtml

08年北京五輪から4大会連続でのシングルス切符を逃した水谷は「元々大会前から厳しい状況だったので、気持ちの整理はついている。(代表レースが)終わったなという感じ。全く後悔はない」と、やり切ったという表情で結果を受け止めた。ただ、実力だけでなく“不運”によって代表を逃した側面もあり、「自分の努力と関係ないところで(代表が)決まったのは…。受け入れるしかないですけど、そこの悔しさはちょっとありますね」と無念の思いも口にした。
...
 最終的な2人のポイント差が「375点」だっただけに、少なくとも第2戦で水谷が最少でも得られたはずの「400点」があれば立場は逆転していた。水谷はこの1年で落ち込んだタイミングとして「T2(第2戦)がなくなったときですかね。そこでかなり心が折れたと思う」と告白。「(出場するだけで得られた)400点があれば今回(五輪に)自分が出られていたし、前回のT2(第3戦)でも丹羽が(繰り上げで)出られたことで逆転もあると。自分の努力と関係ないところで決まったのは悔しさがちょっとある」と話した。

 結果論とはいえ、し烈な代表争いは“コート外”で決着がついたとも言える。選手たちは1年間心身を削って代表争いをしていただけに、今となっては後味の悪い出来事だった。
Mizutani, who missed the singles ticket for four consecutive tournaments from the 2008 Beijing Olympics, said, “Because it was a tough situation before the tournament, the feelings have been organized. "I accepted the result with the expression that I had done it." However, there was an aspect that missed the representative not only by ability but also by “bad luck”, “The thing that was not related to my efforts (the representative) was decided ... I have to accept it, but there is a little regret there” He also expressed his remorse.
...
Since the final point difference between the two was “375 points”, the position was reversed if there was at least “400 points” that should have been obtained at least in the second game. Mizutani confessed that the timing of the fall in the past year was “When the T2 (Round 2) was gone? “If you have 400 points (obtained just by entering the race), you have been present this time (in the Olympics), and there is a reversal in the previous T2 (Round 3) because Niwa was (in advance). “It ’s a bit of regret that I ’ve decided that it has nothing to do with my efforts.”

Although it is a result theory, it can be said that the fierce representative battle was settled “out of the court”. The players had a bad aftertaste now, as the players struggled for a year to fight for representation.

---------------------
Select comments for that news:

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/cm/main?d=20191214-00000043-dal-spo

なんたら協会と付く団体は選手の事を考えてない。
完全に不公平になっている。
公平にするためのポイント制が不公平を産んでいる。
それを協会側は考慮しないと駄目な機関でしょ?
せめて2位と3位で直接対決させて決めてもよかったのでは?水谷選手は恐らく今回の五輪がラストチャンスと思って望んでいると思う。
出れなくて400ポイント貰えず、繰り上げで出れて500ポイント貰ったら900ポイントの得だからな。
The association and the association are not thinking about players.
It is completely unfair.
The point system for fairness is causing unfairness.
Isn't that an organization that has to be considered by the association?
Was it okay to make a direct confrontation between 2nd and 3rd? I think Mizutani thinks that this Olympics is the last chance and hopes.
I couldn't get 400 points because I couldn't get out.


そんなことを言い出したら女子の石川選手だってT2第1戦は出場資格が無かったのに中国選手が多数欠場して繰り上がり出場して400ポイントを獲得。結局この得点が大きかったのは男子と同じ事。
バドミントンと違って五輪選手選考は日本卓球協会が決めるのだから初めからT2ポイントを除外すべきだった。ただでさえランキング下位の選手はツアー参戦数が限られた上にT2ポイントまで加算されたら初めから出来合いレースのようなものだ。
When I said that, even though Ishikawa was a female player who was not qualified for the first round of T2, a lot of Chinese players missed out and got 400 points. In the end, this score was the same as for boys.
Unlike badminton, the selection of the Olympics was decided by the Japan Table Tennis Association, so T2 points should have been excluded from the beginning. Even the low ranking players are like a ready race from the beginning if the number of tours is limited and T2 points are added.


基本的には12月の段階で丹羽孝希が言っていた「身体がボロボロの状態」というような表現にこの日本の選考システムに問題があると言える。日本の選手はほぼ1年中ツアーで世界を回ってきた。対して中国トップ選手は適当に2軍選手が代わりに出ることにより結果として休養をとる形になっている。
だが中国選手でさえ今や今大会も馬龍、丁寧、劉詩文に脚や腰の故障が明らかで許シンも張本戦で手首を痛めていた。
明らかに選手は過酷な練習の中で十分なケアが必要な証拠だ。
日本の平野や石川も直前までノースアメリカンからトンボ返りの過密な日程だ。
ちなみに中国の選手の選考方法はランキングによらないと言われているが具体的にはどのように行われているのか詳細を知りたい。
このランキングによる選考は石川平野のわずか135ポイント差ということが問題を提起している。3人目の選考方法も疑問。
数千ポイントも差がある選手を選ぶことは妥当か?
Basically, it can be said that there is a problem with this Japanese selection system in terms of the expression “the body is tattered” that Takaki Niwa said in December. Japanese players have traveled around the world almost all year round. On the other hand, the top players in China are in the form of taking rest as a result of the appropriate replacement of two military players.
However, even Chinese players now have a leg and waist breakdown in Ma Ryu, polite, and Liu poetry, and Huh Shin has been hurting his wrist in the game.
Clearly, this is evidence that players need to be well cared for in harsh practice.
The plains and Ishikawa in Japan are just overcrowded with the return of dragonflies from North American.
By the way, it is said that the selection method of Chinese players is not based on ranking, but I want to know the details of how it is done.
The selection by this ranking raises the problem that only 135 points are different from the Ishikawa Plain. Also question the selection method of the third person.
Is it appropriate to choose players with a difference of thousands of points?


そもそもT2ポイントは五輪選考ポイントからは外して計算しないと、出れない選手と
出れる選手でポイントが違ってくるわけだから世界ランキングに反映されるのは仕方ないにしても、五輪選考とは分けるべきだったと思う。だから
1月の世界ランキングの中の日本人選手上位2名が選出されるという日本卓球協会の決め方がおかしい。自分も最初からこのポイント加算は一部の選手に有利になったり不利になったりするポイントなのではと思っていた。
However, the doubles on the left and left of Niwa and Mizutani were so bad that they hurt their heads.
I didn't have a left-and-right combination so far,
I do n’t think it ’s going to be a level. After Rio, the relationship between Niwa Mizutani has a variety of backgrounds, and it would be quite awkward to join a doubles group.
However, if you exclude Mizutani in the team battle, you will be overtaken by Germany in the team rank,
The draw will be greatly affected. It is very troubled with it.


卓球の世界ランキングのシステムの計算方法は、純粋な実力を表すものではない。特に昨年初めに導入された今の計算方法では、その傾向が強まり、誰と対戦したかなどに関係のない、最近のツアー順位だけで決まるようなものになっている。つまり運の要素に強く影響される。にもかかわらず、なぜそれ代表選考基準にするのか全くわからない。

例えば、過去の世界ランキングシステムの計算方法から参加加点やボーナス加点を除き、勝敗だけで計算するポイントだけを使うなどとすれば、運に関係のない実力を評価することはできるはず。

協会としては世界ランキングにまるなげすれば批判をかわせると考えたのかと感じてしまう。不公平感をなくすためだけでなく、本当にオリンピックで勝てる選手を選ぶために、協会はもっと考えて欲しい。
The calculation method of the table tennis world ranking system does not represent pure ability. In particular, the current calculation method introduced at the beginning of last year has become more prominent and is determined only by the recent tour ranking, regardless of who you have played against. In other words, it is strongly influenced by the element of luck. Nonetheless, I don't know why it is going to be a selection criterion.

For example, if you remove only participation points and bonus points from the calculation method of the world ranking system in the past, and use only points that are calculated only by winning and losing, you should be able to evaluate your ability unrelated to luck.

It seems that the association thought that criticism would be caused if it was put in the world ranking. I want the association to think more about not only to get rid of injustice, but also to choose the players who can really win the Olympics.

NextLevel
12-15-2019, 04:58 AM
Sour grapes. Koki Niwa had to beat the same Hugo Calderano that Muzutani couldn't beat as part of his effort.

Jacky Kwok
12-15-2019, 05:29 AM
I don’t think it is CNT’s intention. After all, they can still withdraw WCQ from T2 for whatever reason to let Niwa enter T2. No need to suspend WCQ for 3 months.

What I found interesting is that since WCQ threw his racket, he got punished by CNT and withdrew from T2 Singapore. This led to Niwa as a replacement for T2 Singapore which would gain Niwa at least 400 points (eventually he got 500 points).

Now looking back at the final WR, Mizutani would have been ahead of Niwa if Niwa didn’t enter T2 Singapore. So that’s something purely luck.


Racketgate? Austriagate? OTH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Tampines_Hub)gate

zeio
12-15-2019, 06:03 AM
The thing is whenever T2 is involved, CNT's action/reaction/decision has always influenced the JNT's selection race in some form or way.

The reason Ishikawa and Kato made the T2 Malaysia was because of the Chinese National Championships (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21440-Australian-Open-2019-Platinum&p=281541&viewfull=1#post281541). Keep in mind ML and LSW told the media that they needed the T2 points for the Olympics. (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21462-T2-Diamond-2019-Malaysia&p=282576&viewfull=1#post282576)

T2 Haikou was cancelled because they couldn't "get the necessary permit" after ML/FZD lost to LYJ and ZYL won in T2 Malaysia. Around the same time, QZJ and LS told the media they were very unhappy about the T2 (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22049-Seamaster-is-gone&p=292102&viewfull=1#post292102) for "kidnapping" their players.

But in the end, China sent all "eligible players" to T2 Singapore...

Takkyu_wa_inochi
12-15-2019, 06:26 AM
I love Mizutani but since his vision problems "appeared" then despite his efforts he couldn't achieve the same results than before. Japan Men's team will have a hard time getting a medal whether he plays or not.