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Dan
06-28-2019, 02:05 PM
What's up guys, today I'm joined alongside the man, the myth, the legend Timo Boll in the all new TableTennisDaily comparison series. Today we are comparing two Butterfly rubbers, Dignics 05 and Tenergy 05.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4cYDC2KtoQ

Stay tuned for many more equipment reviews and comparison videos! Let us know in the comments what comparison reviews you'd like to see in the future!

Have you tried these two rubbers, digni yet? Any questions let us know in the comments.

TheKhan123
06-28-2019, 02:09 PM
Both are super expensive
And you just review butterfly while you could review brands such as donic instead of only reviewing blue fire m1 rubber :/

yoass
06-28-2019, 02:34 PM
It’s nigh impossible not to love this. The boyish enthusiasm, the fun they’re having, the banter, the play. Ultralikable.

Looking forward to the Bluegrip V1 v. Tenergy 09C review! [emoji41]

olzetezkarzo
06-28-2019, 03:09 PM
with all these reviews dan ends up getting better training than many members of the cnt ;)

KM1976
06-28-2019, 03:10 PM
Awesome new series Dan! and that too the first video with no one other than Timo Boll. Great information shared with comparisons on both rubbers. However, now if I think of it, I gather that Dignics 05 has lower throw, less catapult and more grip. But so does Stiga Genesis S II or Donic Bluegrip R1 or any other hybrid rubber with softer sponge, so this created more questions in my mind but also answered a few direct ones regarding butterfly products.
No doubt, butterfly products are top of the line, but paying 105$ for a sheet of Dignics 05, I doubt would be convincing to many players including me.
Also, the part where Go Pro video technique was used made me feel a bit dizzy (sorry for that, it might just be me).

laistrogian
06-28-2019, 03:57 PM
I find that the latest gen rubbers with harder sponge is only effective for higher level and pro players.

Tenergy 05 has its downsides but i'd say is still the easiest rubber to produce low effort, high quality loops on lower level players.

I've tried playing with Tenergy 05 Hard and the rubber is simply too unforgiving where you need to really hit into it and have the correct angle or otherwise, the ball will slip to the net, or fly pass through the table. I'd imagine Dignics 05 would be very similar.

thom
06-28-2019, 04:05 PM
I find that the latest gen rubbers with harder sponge is only effective for higher level and pro players.

Tenergy 05 has its downsides but i'd say is still the easiest rubber to produce low effort, high quality loops on lower level players.

I've tried playing with Tenergy 05 Hard and the rubber is simply too unforgiving where you need to really hit into it and have the correct angle or otherwise, the ball will slip to the net, or fly pass through the table. I'd imagine Dignics 05 would be very similar.yeah, don't think D05 will catch on huge the same reason as D05H as there are way more low -mid level players than high level ones

rogerino75
06-28-2019, 04:09 PM
Good review, Dan. Timo is such a nice guy!

Tinykin
06-28-2019, 04:32 PM
I liked the Go pro footage. Yes it moves around a bit, but that is what seeing a player's eye view is all about. Especially this part where we see Timo's serve from a new point of view at 5:50. Note that the site won't play video from 5m50s. Moderator?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4cYDC2KtoQ&t=5m50s

RidTheKid
06-28-2019, 04:52 PM
Timo, what a guy!

TTHopeful
06-28-2019, 10:25 PM
Entertaining video great review

drunix80
06-29-2019, 05:13 AM
Dan played at such a high level. Awesome man!!

729B2
06-29-2019, 06:47 AM
tryed it for me i though it was like a rozena but with more spin and a bit faster , imo its soso not enough control tho but alright

frankhond
06-29-2019, 07:08 AM
@Dan it’s really good that you say at the end “this is for advanced players”. What would really be helpful is to follow with “and for developing players who want something similar, try xyz”.

In this case, @Dan and everyone else, what should a developing player try instead of dignics?

RidTheKid
06-29-2019, 07:43 AM
Go with the good old Mark V, or DHS GoldArc5 or 8.


@Dan it’s really good that you say at the end “this is for advanced players”. What would really be helpful is to follow with “and for developing players who want something similar, try xyz”.

In this case, @Dan and everyone else, what should a developing player try instead of dignics?

TheKhan123
06-29-2019, 08:11 AM
Maybe tenergy 80 is a good option instead of dignics?

Takkyu_wa_inochi
06-29-2019, 12:02 PM
very nice review Dan, and you are blessed to have been training with Timo himself ! Wow !
You do play very well and thats the most impressive video i've seen of you, i liked the FH shot to your middle where you aimed his FH corner and congratulated yourself , awesome !

Personally i haven't tried D05, but I've tried for a few minutes only D80 (not new, used)
It is less tacky than my SpinArt but overall the touch is not very different. With the same technique, i felt as you said much more safety with my BH. The ball was very easy to control, it was ridiculous. The ball had low arc and was deep, and very little mistakes. I feel it could be an excellent alternative to my current rubber, but I think I won't change though because I like the extra grip and hardness on SpinArt which makes it really good for both blocking and counterspin with a short stroke, and perhaps it is easier to find shorter trajectories and more angles. Surely due to sponge hardness, SpinArt must be less forgiving for opening against long backspin pushes than D80. All in all, if for example, SpinArt was discontinued by Butterfly, i would shift to D80. If my level was higher and i didn't stay close to the table all the time, I would change to D80 as well.

I also tried it on the FH side, it was easy to drive / loop, but as you said, i felt more power with my T80 even I use it in 1.9mm. I don't use it on max because in my style / level I don't feel I need max, I can still finish and score FH winners with the 1.9 but i have extra control for receive and block. So definitely i prefer T80 on FH.

UpSideDownCarl
06-29-2019, 04:06 PM
Both are super expensive
And you just review butterfly while you could review brands such as donic instead of only reviewing blue fire m1 rubber :/

You should look at the vast number of video reviews Dan has done of equipment from other companies. To me, based on the number of video reviews that have been done, I feel this comment is a bit off the mark.


@Dan it’s really good that you say at the end “this is for advanced players”. What would really be helpful is to follow with “and for developing players who want something similar, try xyz”.

In this case, @Dan and everyone else, what should a developing player try instead of dignics?

I am also not sure this needs to be part of this video since it was not the subject matter. There are lots of things that mid and lower level players can use. There are plenty of reviews of products that would fit the bill. RidTheKid gave a few suggestions already.

Look to other reviews of products that might be more in line with your actual needs.

ttmonster
06-29-2019, 05:51 PM
19416Found this hilarious !!!

phorkyas
06-29-2019, 10:42 PM
In the final against Groth I saw Timo twiddling quite some times. As if he wanted the more grip on the forehand? Anyone seen that too or could explain.

Can't remember having him seen twiddling before.

Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk

danisius
06-29-2019, 10:57 PM
In the final against Groth I saw Timo twiddling quite some times. As if he wanted the more grip on the forehand? Anyone seen that too or could explain.

Can't remember having him seen twiddling before.

Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk

I noticed also that sometimes switeches when recieve service.

frankhond
06-30-2019, 04:36 PM
You should look at the vast number of video reviews Dan has done of equipment from other companies....
...Look to other reviews of products that might be more in line with your actual needs.

Yes but a lot if not most of the stuff Dan reviews is pro quality stuff. And the internet is so full of options and BS. I think it would be helpful if an experienced player like Dan could take 5 seconds to mention something that doesn't cost 80GBP, is a little friendlier for a developing player but still has something related to the reviewed product. Or maybe make a review series especially for the "developing but curious" segment of the market.

Tinykin
06-30-2019, 05:35 PM
Yes but a lot if not most of the stuff Dan reviews is pro quality stuff. And the internet is so full of options and BS. I think it would be helpful if an experienced player like Dan could take 5 seconds to mention something that doesn't cost 80GBP, is a little friendlier for a developing player but still has something related to the reviewed product. Or maybe make a review series especially for the "developing but curious" segment of the market.

Genuine question about readers on here.

The most popular video car reviews cars are about the latest supercars. These cars are bought by an extremely tiny amount of drivers.
Same for photography. The reviews are chiefly about the latest top of the line cameras etc. The cheaper run of the mill stuff receive scant attention.
Same again for mobile phones. There are very few reviews of the lower phones.

I'm afraid that you are probably not going to see many reviews of cheap rubbers. However, maybe there's a business opportunity there for you.

frankhond
06-30-2019, 05:54 PM
I'm afraid that you are probably not going to see many reviews of cheap rubbers. However, maybe there's a business opportunity there for you.

Well darn! I could have Yinhe send me free stuff! Of course that would stop pretty quickly once I mention that Jupiter 2 booster smell...

TheKhan123
06-30-2019, 06:30 PM
I mean, Donic deserves more than just 1 review video on something which is about 5 years ago while less known companies like andro and joola get reviews like hell :|

UpSideDownCarl
06-30-2019, 09:28 PM
Yes but a lot if not most of the stuff Dan reviews is pro quality stuff. And the internet is so full of options and BS. I think it would be helpful if an experienced player like Dan could take 5 seconds to mention something that doesn't cost 80GBP, is a little friendlier for a developing player but still has something related to the reviewed product. Or maybe make a review series especially for the "developing but curious" segment of the market.

Maybe it is a subject for a different review. But he has some reviews where he has an All+ blade, an Off- blade and an Off blade that are similar but different speed classes where All+ is for players from lower to mid level; Off- is for mid level to high mid level players; and the Off blade is for more experienced players.

I also believe he has reviewed rubbers like Rozena which is a rubber for more entry level to mid level players. So, really, it would be searching and finding reviews that are right for you.

And it seems you know enough to have found decent equipment for yourself. You didn't like how H3 smelled. So you got something else that works for you and does not smell as bad.

Basically, if you ask what you are asking and take to the extreme of everyone asking, then Dan should make one review and review every piece of equipment ever made. But if you look, he has actually reviewed equipment that is for lower and mid level players in the past.

And if you wanted ideas of inexpensive equipment that is good for mid and lower level players, have a look at:

http://www.colestt.com

He only buys stuff he likes. He is not a business man. He runs the site to give people access to decent equipment that is not expensive. It is not his day job. I believe he is a school teacher. But he has the site so people can find inexpensive equipment that is decent and is not expensive. So everything he carries, he has tried and approved.

frankhond
06-30-2019, 10:15 PM
Maybe it is a subject for a different review. But he has some reviews where he has an All+ blade, an Off- blade and an Off blade that are similar but different speed classes where All+ is for players from lower to mid level; Off- is for mid level to high mid level players; and the Off blade is for more experienced players.

I also believe he has reviewed rubbers like Rozena which is a rubber for more entry level to mid level players. So, really, it would be searching and finding reviews that are right for you.

And it seems you know enough to have found decent equipment for yourself. You didn't like how H3 smelled. So you got something else that works for you and does not smell as bad.

Basically, if you ask what you are asking and take to the extreme of everyone asking, then Dan should make one review and review every piece of equipment ever made. But if you look, he has actually reviewed equipment that is for lower and mid level players in the past.

And if you wanted ideas of inexpensive equipment that is good for mid and lower level players, have a look at:

http://www.colestt.com

He only buys stuff he likes. He is not a business man. He runs the site to give people access to decent equipment that is not expensive. It is not his day job. I believe he is a school teacher. But he has the site so people can find inexpensive equipment that is decent and is not expensive. So everything he carries, he has tried and approved.

I think maybe you take my comments too seriously. I don’t demand that Dan does anything unreasonable. It just seems that with his knowledge he could say something about alternatives. That isn’t such a strange idea, many review magazines and the like do this. For example Sound on Sound that reviews audio equipment always includes a mention of alternatives, and explains why, which is educational and interesting.

This is not really related to my H3 issue and currently I’m trying a setup based on ideas from this forum. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate more knowledge from a pro. That’s all. Dan will still do as he likes, if he reads my feedback and decides to try it, great, if not, no big deal, he is still a great resource.

UpSideDownCarl
07-01-2019, 05:40 PM
I think maybe you take my comments too seriously. I don’t demand that Dan does anything unreasonable. It just seems that with his knowledge he could say something about alternatives. That isn’t such a strange idea, many review magazines and the like do this. For example Sound on Sound that reviews audio equipment always includes a mention of alternatives, and explains why, which is educational and interesting.

This is not really related to my H3 issue and currently I’m trying a setup based on ideas from this forum. But that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate more knowledge from a pro. That’s all. Dan will still do as he likes, if he reads my feedback and decides to try it, great, if not, no big deal, he is still a great resource.

We can agree to disagree. To me, it seems, this is a review comparison of Tenergy 05 and Dignics 05. I see no reason to mention any other rubbers. And no other rubbers were mentioned.

If you want to ask for Dan to do some more video reviews of equipment for lower level players, that is fine. But you should also search through video reviews he has already done. Because there are some that he has already done. I think the Rozena review and the review of the Simon Gauzy blades may be worth it for you to search.

My guess is, you simply do not know how much work goes into doing one of these video reviews and how they do need to stay on subject.

But I am okay that we will not agree. I just think you don't seem to understand the purpose of this specific review if you want information about rubbers other than T05 and D05 added in. In the video they show how the rubbers perform for multiple shots and situations. They compare what each rubber does well. In my opinion adding info about rubbers were not used and demonstrated in the video would take the subject off track. And it is worth understanding, THERE IS a reason why the comparison between T05 and Butterfly's newest rubber offering was valuable and timely based on how long Dignics has been out and how many people want to decide if one of those rubbers is better for them.

TheKhan123
07-01-2019, 06:23 PM
We can agree to disagree. To me, it seems, this is a review comparison of Tenergy 05 and Dignics 05. I see no reason to mention any other rubbers. And no other rubbers were mentioned.

If you want to ask for Dan to do some more video reviews of equipment for lower level players, that is fine. But you should also search through video reviews he has already done. Because there are some that he has already done. I think the Rozena review and the review of the Simon Gauzy blades may be worth it for you to search.

My guess is, you simply do not know how much work goes into doing one of these video reviews and how they do need to stay on subject.

But I am okay that we will not agree. I just think you don't seem to understand the purpose of this specific review if you want information about rubbers other than T05 and D05 added in. In the video they show how the rubbers perform for multiple shots and situations. They compare what each rubber does well. In my opinion adding info about rubbers were not used and demonstrated in the video would take the subject off track. And it is worth understanding, THERE IS a reason why the comparison between T05 and Butterfly's newest rubber offering was valuable and timely based on how long Dignics has been out and how many people want to decide if one of those rubbers is better for them.

you're definitely right about the effort it takes. I used to disagree with you, but you actually make so much sense to me that I admit I am convinced with what you said :)

Dan
07-03-2019, 07:25 AM
It’s nigh impossible not to love this. The boyish enthusiasm, the fun they’re having, the banter, the play. Ultralikable.


Thanks Yoass, Timo is a class act!



with all these reviews dan ends up getting better training than many members of the cnt ;)

Haha! I feel like a lost sheep at times out there with the pro's, they send me all over the place!



Awesome new series Dan! and that too the first video with no one other than Timo Boll. Great information shared with comparisons on both rubbers. However, now if I think of it, I gather that Dignics 05 has lower throw, less catapult and more grip. But so does Stiga Genesis S II or Donic Bluegrip R1 or any other hybrid rubber with softer sponge, so this created more questions in my mind but also answered a few direct ones regarding butterfly products.
No doubt, butterfly products are top of the line, but paying 105$ for a sheet of Dignics 05, I doubt would be convincing to many players including me.
Also, the part where Go Pro video technique was used made me feel a bit dizzy (sorry for that, it might just be me).

Hey KM, glad you like the new series! Plenty more comparison reviews coming soon, the one thing with Dignics that surprises me is the amount of grip you can feel on the topsheet when playing your shots.

Yeah the Go Pro part is pretty tough to record keeping your head still whilst trying to return Timo's shots haha! I think it's better to slow motion this part so the camera doesn't move so frantically.



I find that the latest gen rubbers with harder sponge is only effective for higher level and pro players.

Tenergy 05 has its downsides but i'd say is still the easiest rubber to produce low effort, high quality loops on lower level players.

I've tried playing with Tenergy 05 Hard and the rubber is simply too unforgiving where you need to really hit into it and have the correct angle or otherwise, the ball will slip to the net, or fly pass through the table. I'd imagine Dignics 05 would be very similar.

I hear what you're saying, although once you have good technique the shot quality is superb. I do try to emphasize this in the videos.



Dan played at such a high level. Awesome man!!

Hey thanks man! Trying my best aha!



@Dan it’s really good that you say at the end “this is for advanced players”. What would really be helpful is to follow with “and for developing players who want something similar, try xyz”.

In this case, @Dan and everyone else, what should a developing player try instead of dignics?

Hey Frank yes good suggestion. As Carl has mentioned I tried to focus on the direct comparison between these two rubbers in the review. Rubbers such as Rozena, Hurricane 3 etc are all good alternatives which I will feature in new reviews, the main focus was the difference between T05 and D05. Thanks for the suggestion Frank.



Maybe tenergy 80 is a good option instead of dignics?

Yeah although I would say with Dignics you will get more control.



very nice review Dan, and you are blessed to have been training with Timo himself ! Wow !
You do play very well and thats the most impressive video i've seen of you, i liked the FH shot to your middle where you aimed his FH corner and congratulated yourself , awesome !


Thanks for the nice comment Takkyu :) I think I got highly lucky pulling that shot off! :D


19416Found this hilarious !!!

Hahaha this is hilarious! Ill look into why this word is getting flagged! :D

chenqi89
07-03-2019, 01:37 PM
amazing rubbers

Creek
07-03-2019, 06:46 PM
Hi Dan,
Great video! Always love to watch your equipment reviews, since you are quite experienced and know what you‘re talking about. Having the pro‘s in those videos seems to be cool on the one hand, on the other hand they are not allowed to talk a lot about downsides of the equipment since they are sponsored by the brands...
I also like the idea of having comparison reviews. I think it is easier to understand a comparison to a blade or a rubber, than just telling something about one.

How about a Tenergy 05 comparison review with all those formerly hyped rubbers like MX-P, MXS, Fastarc G1 (why didn‘t you do a review about this by now!?!), Vega pro, etc?
Would be great to here something about spin, speed, bounce, throw, etc.

mart1nandersson
07-03-2019, 11:16 PM
Great video! I briefly met Timo during a training camp in Düsseldorf last September and he was such a nice guy! Took time for us amateurs and willingly participated in selfies, talk about TT etc.

I think that it would be really good if you could compare T05 with one of the rubbers that are touted as Tenergy replacements. I’m mainly thinking of Victas V>15 and Xiom Omega Tour (maybe Pro) which are extremely popular in Sweden especially with TSP/Victas being aggressive with sponsorships for clubs/youths/elites.

ttmonster
07-04-2019, 05:17 AM
I had a question around how hard if felt compared to Tenergy 05 Hard. I know you mentioned the hardness in the video but while playing with the new sponge , did it feel harder or softer especially on shots where you are trying to get the power from the sponge ..

729B2
07-04-2019, 06:26 AM
Great video! I briefly met Timo during a training camp in Düsseldorf last September and he was such a nice guy! Took time for us amateurs and willingly participated in selfies, talk about TT etc.

I think that it would be really good if you could compare T05 with one of the rubbers that are touted as Tenergy replacements. I’m mainly thinking of Victas V>15 and Xiom Omega Tour (maybe Pro) which are extremely popular in Sweden especially with TSP/Victas being aggressive with sponsorships for clubs/youths/elites.

Victas v15 extra or limba is worth a go when i used it a long time ago , and lucky you !

brokenball
07-05-2019, 12:28 AM
The review is entertaining but meaningless. It is base on opinion and not facts like a PathfinderPro evaluation. How much difference can there be between the two rubbers? If there is a significant difference then it is like admitting that one of the rubbers is designed wrong. What is better? Control? That is what I heard over and over again.
How can one say that one rubber has more control than another? Control is a function of the player not the rubber. I wonder how the review would have gone if the players didn't know what rubber they were using.


I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind.


Do you really think that Butterfly doesn't have all sorts of data on their rubbers? The must have otherwise how do they do quality control so that all the T05 or D05 rubbers are the same.

Grumpy old engineer

Takkyu_wa_inochi
07-05-2019, 01:00 AM
on butterfly site, they have only 3 numbers
sponge hardness, spin and speed

brokenball
07-05-2019, 04:57 AM
on butterfly site, they have only 3 numbers
sponge hardness, spin and speed
Yes. Did you know that thicker sponges will feel softer? The TT companies provide only one hardness rating and it is a stupid way of rating the hardness. What do you do with a hardness number of 39? It would be better to rate the hardness like a spring constant. This way there would be a value that would mean something like now many Newtons does it take to compress a square cm 50% or 0.2mm or similar. I choose a square cm because that is roughly the size of the dust marks the TT balls make on my rubber and the units are nice.

Think about it. It wouldn't be too hard to compress the rubber in 0.1m increments to get an idea of how linear the compression is. Now all we have a stupid durometer number that can't be used in a formula.

TT balls are not sharp like the durometer testers.

Spin and speed should be measured by the coefficient of restitution. These numbers an be measured and compared. It has been done before.

purpletiesto
07-05-2019, 06:35 AM
Totally agree.

Takkyu_wa_inochi
07-05-2019, 06:59 AM
however stupid you say it is, the numbers given by Butterfly at least enables one to compare all Butterfly products within each other, whatever the unit is.

Fortunately no one needs an engineer degree to play Table tennis

brokenball
07-05-2019, 07:56 AM
Fortunately no one needs an engineer degree to play Table tennis
Butterfly would hope not because then they wouldn't have any gullible customers willing pay their high prices.

I think the TT companies have some sort of cartel going where they promise not to directly compare their rubbers against competitors rubbers. My company buys competitors products to evaluate them. I know our competitors buy our products to evaluate them. I am talking about many thousands of dollars. The big pickup companies in the US compare horse power, torque, towing and hauling capabilities. The TT companies are silent.

Creek
07-05-2019, 09:21 AM
In Germany they do comparisons. Schoeler-Micke.de for example is the Tabletennis shop of Andro, while Sport-Schreiner-Tischtennis.de is the Shop of donic. Both offer eachothers equipment and rate them in a table at the end of the catalogue. Surprisingly the own brands are always rated the best :-D