PDA

View Full Version : Weird spin on Hurricane 3



louisd8466
12-29-2019, 09:25 AM
Hi all,

I've been playing with a Hurricane 3 orange sponge for about 2 months now and a few people have observed that my forehand loops were not as spinny as they thought it would be, and the ball ended up going into the net instead of popping up... I am totally confused by this because i thought this would be a spinny kind of rubber. When i loop i tend to open the racket angle more than the average player and try to spin the ball more, which makes me think that it should be more spinny. That is the reason why i thought i'd try out this rubber.

Has anyone got told this or can explain what is happening? I have DHS hurricane 3 (orange sponge) on FH and Hurricane neo on BH with Michael Maze blade.

Thanks

Sankhma
12-29-2019, 09:44 AM
Hurricane 3, and other chinese rubbers, don't have the curved trajectory of eur/jap rubbers. That means it has lower throw angle, it doesn't 'pop up' as much. You have to make your racket angle even flatter and brush more to get more spin, maybe try using your wrist, also remeber about the legs.

Hysteresis
12-29-2019, 10:16 AM
Hi all,

I've been playing with a Hurricane 3 orange sponge for about 2 months now and a few people have observed that my forehand loops were not as spinny as they thought it would be, and the ball ended up going into the net instead of popping up... I am totally confused by this because i thought this would be a spinny kind of rubber. When i loop i tend to open the racket angle more than the average player and try to spin the ball more, which makes me think that it should be more spinny. That is the reason why i thought i'd try out this rubber.

Has anyone got told this or can explain what is happening? I have DHS hurricane 3 (orange sponge) on FH and Hurricane neo on BH with Michael Maze blade.

Thanks

It's the weird shooting trajectory of the H3 loop. It's not that your ball doesn't spin much (if anything it spins more) it's that the ball doesn't bounce up as much and stays with a really low trajectory after the bounce.

This causes their balls to go into the net because:
a) the upward component of the ball's movement is just flat out less to begin with
b) they are not used to the different trajectory, and they are not getting as good contact on their loop as they think they are getting.

G_ZHANG
12-29-2019, 11:04 AM
For Hurricane, you should close your racket angle, so that you can get more brush using the tacky rubber surface.

On the opposite side, if you are using non-tacky rubber, you should open youe racket angle, to get the sponge involved to make the spin.

That is the main difference in technique when using tacky and non-tacky rubber.

vik2000
12-29-2019, 03:24 PM
You aren't using your H3 correctly. Most people generate less spin with H3 so I suggest going back to Euro/Jap rubbers unless you've trained to use H3.

yogi_bear
12-29-2019, 05:49 PM
It has something to do with the way you brush the ball.

louisd8466
12-29-2019, 08:14 PM
Maybe i got it all wrong but i thought h3 generates speed by imparting spin by utilising the tacky topsheet, hence why i thought it would fit my style more, as i tend to brush more upward more than usual ?
They said that they didnt hear the typical clicking sound when you hit with a h3 rubber so maybe i do it wrong after all?
I win more points though and i feel like it's helping me!

loerting
12-29-2019, 08:17 PM
you have to go more "in" the ball. try to use more waist rotation while brushing and keep the elbow closer to your body. don't move your upper arm too much and try to transfer force from the ground.

brokenball
12-29-2019, 09:40 PM
It has something to do with the way you brush the ball.



=loerting;]you have to go more "in" the ball.



There is a difference of opinion.
Having played with H3 commercial, I found it slow but spinny when a brushing stroke is applied. H3 commercial is only suitable for close to the table play because it is so slow but it takes skill to get the timing and angle right because you must brush off the bounce to get a good loop. The problem is that as you close the paddle, the effective cross section of the paddle becomes smaller requiring good timing.

I would avoid H2 and H3 in favor of H2 and H3 Neo for only a couple of dollars more.

Der_Echte
12-30-2019, 07:32 AM
What the OP describes happens ALL THE TIME and not just with H3... happens with Ur mainstream inverted rubbers too. (Yeah, the ball isn't necessarily loaded with spin just because someone used H3)

A player can make what looks like a real fast bat speed stroke, but when they impact the ball, they do not effectively transfer power to the ball. Often, the spin component of the power (yeah, power is speed and rotation) lacks... and the opponent really thought the ball should have more on it.

I am sometimes one of those foolish opponents cussing at the opponent that they didn't spin the ball as much as I judged.

Most of the time, this is because the opponent had a lighter grip, impacted the ball a little more directly, and did not accelerate the bat right before impact.

A really good player can replicate this at will on loops... it is called SPIN VARIATION.

A really good player can do this on underspin shots, it is also known as spin variation.

bobpuls
12-30-2019, 05:08 PM
What the OP describes happens ALL THE TIME and not just with H3... happens with Ur mainstream inverted rubbers too. (Yeah, the ball isn't necessarily loaded with spin just because someone used H3)

A player can make what looks like a real fast bat speed stroke, but when they impact the ball, they do not effectively transfer power to the ball. Often, the spin component of the power (yeah, power is speed and rotation) lacks... and the opponent really thought the ball should have more on it.

I am sometimes one of those foolish opponents cussing at the opponent that they didn't spin the ball as much as I judged.

Most of the time, this is because the opponent had a lighter grip, impacted the ball a little more directly, and did not accelerate the bat right before impact.

A really good player can replicate this at will on loops... it is called SPIN VARIATION.

A really good player can do this on underspin shots, it is also known as spin variation.
Absolutely true ... this way i go from net pushing to attack ... one or two pushes loaded with spin and then one which only looks like spiny .. ball jumps and here we go .... the same for top spins ... it is good to variation empty and loaded loops ....unfortunately opponents know this also so rather have eyes sharp !

UpSideDownCarl
12-31-2019, 06:26 AM
The idea that anyone on this thread thinks they can answer the OP's question without seeing footage of what he is actually doing when he loops is entertaining.

Anyone who thinks they can answer is really guessing.

Show footage and we will instantly know which of the 100s of things it could be that are causing you to question the rubber. Without footage this discussion is kind of pointless.

See if you can make a video of yourself looping. It should not need to be more than 15-30 seconds long. All we would need is to see a few loops.

zeio
12-31-2019, 12:20 PM
Welcome to the "faux loop" club.

UpSideDownCarl
12-31-2019, 06:13 PM
Welcome to the "faux loop" club.

Wally Green has it perfected. He calls it his "Heavy No Spin Loop." :)

yogi_bear
01-01-2020, 06:47 AM
There is a difference of opinion.
Having played with H3 commercial, I found it slow but spinny when a brushing stroke is applied. H3 commercial is only suitable for close to the table play because it is so slow but it takes skill to get the timing and angle right because you must brush off the bounce to get a good loop. The problem is that as you close the paddle, the effective cross section of the paddle becomes smaller requiring good timing.

I would avoid H2 and H3 in favor of H2 and H3 Neo for only a couple of dollars more.

Why off the bounce timing only? Hurricane is spinny in all points of contact. Its just that it requires skills and one of them is how to correctly graze or brush the ball. H3. Might be slow on just pure brushing alone but when you know how to attack the ball with a forward brush, the speed becomes better. I do advocate boosting it.

brokenball
01-05-2020, 11:14 PM
Why off the bounce timing only? Hurricane is spinny in all points of contact.

Agreed but H3 commercial is slow and not suitable for playing back from the table without speed gluing or similar.



Its just that it requires skills and one of them is how to correctly graze or brush the ball.

Yes, and it is more difficult trying to judge how the ball will drop due to top spin after the bounce. Too many times the ball dropped below my paddle so my brush didn't make contact. Yes, it can be done but I don't practice with H3 6 hours a day.



H3. Might be slow on just pure brushing alone but when you know how to attack the ball with a forward brush, the speed becomes better. I do advocate boosting it.
Never heard of a forward brush. The amount of brushing depends on how tangential the stroke is to the ball. Essentially one is using the same stroke speed but changing the about of speed or spin depend on the amount of brushing action. For instance, I make slow and spinny loops at angles. When hitting deep I hit through the ball more so there is less spin and the trajectory is flatter.
Boosting is a pain. I rather spend the extra dollars and get something decent like Rakza 7.

yogi_bear
01-06-2020, 02:51 AM
Try doing topspin with a closed angle bat while grazing the ball. Even unboosted when you have the skill, H3 neo is not that slow but it does require effort. Even half long balls or deep placement balls can be brushed with a good amount of heavy topspin. Again, it needs skill and touch.

Hysteresis
01-06-2020, 04:35 AM
Never heard of a forward brush. The amount of brushing depends on how tangential the stroke is to the ball. Essentially one is using the same stroke speed but changing the about of speed or spin depend on the amount of brushing action. For instance, I make slow and spinny loops at angles. When hitting deep I hit through the ball more so there is less spin and the trajectory is flatter.


That's a fundamentally different conception of brushing contact to how you use a H3 rubber.

Both of your drive and spinny loop are based on hitting through the ball, the tangential component of contact provides the spin, and the axial component provides the speed. You hit through it more with the drive, and less with the spinny loop

With the H3, don't think of it as your stroke going through the ball, it's a closed blade stroke OVER the ball.

Because you are brushing forward over the ball, the tangential component provides both the speed AND the spin. (realistically there is still a little bit of hitting through the ball, but not a lot)

louisd8466
01-06-2020, 11:26 AM
Thanks, all good points.

As requested, here is a link of me playing recently so you can tell me if I'm doing it right. My forehand is H3 Neo and backhand is H3 and i am the guy in the Barca shirt. I know I'm not skilled or anything so please let me know how you think i should loop with the H3.


Btw the opponent is not the original person that thought my spin was weird.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYyqmlRanXE&t=26s

Hysteresis
01-06-2020, 12:19 PM
Thanks, all good points.

As requested, here is a link of me playing recently so you can tell me if I'm doing it right. My forehand is H3 Neo and backhand is H3 and i am the guy in the Barca shirt. I know I'm not skilled or anything so please let me know how you think i should loop with the H3.


Btw the opponent is not the original person that thought my spin was weird.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYyqmlRanXE&t=26s

Your contact seems fine. Though most of the harder shots were more smashes than actual loops because a farely sustantial number of rallies were played above net level at point of contact, so it's not very telling of anything.

The few shots played from at, or below net level on the forehand, you did play more as a slow loop (with the angle of your swing going very high). There is nothing wrong with this, it is a valid option. But that might actually be something that a eurojap rubber is better at. You can play the same shot but press foward into the ball more to get the same spin, but more speed.

The way you play the loop from a lower point of contact is maybe not playing to the strength of the H3. There isn't anything particularly wrong with your actual shots per se, you played it with the correct amount of power, and it landed, but it's a shot that scales poorly with more power.

You essentially had to hold back on power/speed to control the length of the ball, you did not hit the ball as hard as you reasonably could have, because if you did the ball would not have had enough time for gravity/curve to work on the ball and for it to still land on the table. If you had played the same shot but with a faster swing, the ball would have gone sailing into the air way past the end of the table.

Again, what you did was fine, you have good feeling for the ball, so you hit it with the correct amount of power for it to still land, and it was offensive enough of a shot to usually win you the point. But the strength of the H3 rubbers are that they allow you to instead play the shot brushing foward (the trajectory of your stroke would instead be nearly parellel to the table, with only a slight upward incline), this allows you to play the shot pretty much as hard as you like with barely any adjustment of blade angle.

I can now see why the other people say there isn't as much spin on your loops. Any gains of extra spin from the H3 is being limited by you having to limit the power of your shot due to the upward trajectory of your stroke. And for strokes played from above the net, they were really more of a smash. Hurricane rubbers genuinely do generate less spin on that sort of smash drive stroke than eurojap rubbers.

yogi_bear
01-07-2020, 08:39 AM
That's a fundamentally different conception of brushing contact to how you use a H3 rubber.

Both of your drive and spinny loop are based on hitting through the ball, the tangential component of contact provides the spin, and the axial component provides the speed. You hit through it more with the drive, and less with the spinny loop

With the H3, don't think of it as your stroke going through the ball, it's a closed blade stroke OVER the ball.

Because you are brushing forward over the ball, the tangential component provides both the speed AND the spin. (realistically there is still a little bit of hitting through the ball, but not a lot)

This is a better explanation than mine but yeah, the brushing motion is emphasized on the stroke for h3 and not hitting more through the slonge unless in very strong shots.

harty
01-07-2020, 01:50 PM
The idea that anyone on this thread thinks they can answer the OP's question without seeing footage of what he is actually doing when he loops is entertaining.

Anyone who thinks they can answer is really guessing.

Show footage and we will instantly know which of the 100s of things it could be that are causing you to question the rubber. Without footage this discussion is kind of pointless.

See if you can make a video of yourself looping. It should not need to be more than 15-30 seconds long. All we would need is to see a few loops.

I completely agree !!!
This discussion is useless !!!
The loop has many variations and therefore many different rotations.
Chinese rubbers are definitely very rotating !!!

bigg boss
01-15-2020, 06:43 AM
Hi all,

I've been playing with a Hurricane 3 orange sponge for about 2 months now and a few people have observed that my forehand loops were not as spinny as they thought it would be, and the ball ended up going into the net instead of popping up... I am totally confused by this because i thought this would be a spinny kind of rubber. When i loop i tend to open the racket angle more than the average player and try to spin the ball more, which makes me think that it should be more spinny. That is the reason why i thought i'd try out this rubber.

Has anyone got told this or can explain what is happening? I have DHS hurricane 3 (orange sponge) on FH and Hurricane neo on BH with Michael Maze blade.

Thanks

Hit harder, open blade more, use faster blade, and if your really really desperate, don't topsin as much. It is a spinny rubber, and thats why its going into the net.

Kolev
01-15-2020, 08:59 AM
I don't see anything wrong with your moves. Keep on doing what you do and try to work a bit more on your timing. Let the people complain about blocking your balls into the net and take it as a bonus. Even the big names often put the ball in the net when playing against H3

UpSideDownCarl
01-15-2020, 01:53 PM
Many of the shots are direct contact not spin contact. On the shots with spin contact, the spin looks good. When the contact is flat, the spin is flat. You can hear the flat contact ones where you hear that harsher wood sound as though you are slapping the ball instead of brushing it.

Nothing wrong with that. But with that kind of contact, you are not going to create much spin regardless of what rubber you are using.

TryHard
08-14-2020, 05:19 AM
I’ve been using H3 for some time now. It does tend to have a different trajectory/spin relationship than some rubbers which can through opponents off. Sometimes an opponent will underestimate the spin and block long, other times overestimate spin and block into the net.

Watching this video, it’s tough to make a good determination about your spin capability because your opponent returns high quite a bit. You keep your body high and as a result, hit the ball more on top and produce a faster shot with less spin (toward the direction of a smash). This is fine when you’re receiving high shots.

I remember when I first switched to H3 a buddy asking me “are you going for less spin?” I thought that by default, using Hurricane was gonna make my shots more spinny. Hurricane can make very fast low-spin shots (more like a smash) and it can make slow, super spinny loops and just about everything in between. The key is knowing how to produce these variations while still activating your body and hitting a quality shot.

I can see from the video you are able to use the first shot. Are you also able to loop pushes hit low to your forehand? That’s a good test of your spin capability, so if you can do that you can spin just fine. If not, practice that for a while. There are plenty of tutorials for this on youtube.

So think about the two basic ways of hitting topspin shots. Starting from a high position coming more over the top of the ball, creating more speed and less spin (as you do in the video). And starting lower and coming more up the back of the ball to create more spin with less speed (as against heavy backspin). These can vary a bit depending on how much you brush vs hit the ball.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Tango K
08-14-2020, 10:45 AM
You miss the contact quite a fair amount and tend to offset that by power & wrist adjustmentS (We all do that without learning). (Hitting the ball and getting the point doesn’t mean you get the contact point / timing right). That will take quite a long time to focus on.


I wouldn’t even think about H3 or Whatever. Nothing to do with the rubbers.

(I picked H3 for a very simple reason. It’s the most popular rubber on the planet. And that’s enough :) )

kindof99
06-03-2022, 05:57 PM
Pretty good discussion on how to use H3.

Everyone that tries to switch to H3 should read this thread first.

lodro
06-03-2022, 06:19 PM
Your contact seems fine. Though most of the harder shots were more smashes than actual loops because a farely sustantial number of rallies were played above net level at point of contact, so it's not very telling of anything.

The few shots played from at, or below net level on the forehand, you did play more as a slow loop (with the angle of your swing going very high). There is nothing wrong with this, it is a valid option. But that might actually be something that a eurojap rubber is better at. You can play the same shot but press foward into the ball more to get the same spin, but more speed.

The way you play the loop from a lower point of contact is maybe not playing to the strength of the H3. There isn't anything particularly wrong with your actual shots per se, you played it with the correct amount of power, and it landed, but it's a shot that scales poorly with more power.

You essentially had to hold back on power/speed to control the length of the ball, you did not hit the ball as hard as you reasonably could have, because if you did the ball would not have had enough time for gravity/curve to work on the ball and for it to still land on the table. If you had played the same shot but with a faster swing, the ball would have gone sailing into the air way past the end of the table.

Again, what you did was fine, you have good feeling for the ball, so you hit it with the correct amount of power for it to still land, and it was offensive enough of a shot to usually win you the point. But the strength of the H3 rubbers are that they allow you to instead play the shot brushing foward (the trajectory of your stroke would instead be nearly parellel to the table, with only a slight upward incline), this allows you to play the shot pretty much as hard as you like with barely any adjustment of blade angle.

I can now see why the other people say there isn't as much spin on your loops. Any gains of extra spin from the H3 is being limited by you having to limit the power of your shot due to the upward trajectory of your stroke. And for strokes played from above the net, they were really more of a smash. Hurricane rubbers genuinely do generate less spin on that sort of smash drive stroke than eurojap rubbers.
Brilliantly explained, thanks.