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Basten4
02-01-2020, 03:01 AM
My son just recently started playing TT. He is developing fairly quickly, and now he wants to start playing games. However, he can't serve at all yet unless he just flat hits it.
Since I am not a TT coach, what would like to know what is the best/correct/easiest way to learn some basic useful serves for kids.
I assume it would go something like this:
1. Basic FH backspin.
2. BH backspin
3. BH side spin.
4. Tamahawk (Ovtcharov style)
5. Hook serve or something like this

I'd say he is still a bit too short for trying pendulum at 4'8" (not even talking about skill level)

So far I just asked him to try basic FH backspin serve.

Is there a better order in which to teach serves to kids? Any good instructional videos?

Thanks

yogi_bear
02-01-2020, 03:08 AM
Let him drop the ball above the table at 8 inches ht and then let him chop it. I usually do this if the player has no correct timing yet. This will let your kid concentrate on just chopping the ball and start developing the feel while push chopping it. It can develop into an underspin serve once he gets the hang of it and also will teach him how to feed underspin balls in a multiball way.

Lula
02-01-2020, 06:45 AM
Coach since some years here. I think you should learn him to hold with just thumb and finger.

Learn him that What kind of spin he Gets depends on where he hit on the ball. Ex backspin is under the ball, side is on the the side. So need to adjust The angle accordingly.

The faster and thinner he brush the ball the more spin he gets. Thick hit sounds more.

Hit the ball Low.

Short serve - first bounce closer to the net
Long serve- first bounce close to your white line

Then it is just about practice.

I think he can start on the floor and try to get the different kind of spin and see how much spin he gets. Experiement.

Then serve on table and just focus on the spin and se What happens.

The at last try to get accuracy. Hit Them so he can use Them. Vary placement and get it low.

Seve is all about practice. The biggest problem in my opinion is that people want better serve But they are not willing to out down the time. If he just Do a little, Maybe 10 min Then and Then i think you Will see a very rapid developement.

Good luck!

Basten4
02-01-2020, 02:50 PM
Coach since some years here. I think you should learn him to hold with just thumb and finger.

Learn him that What kind of spin he Gets depends on where he hit on the ball. Ex backspin is under the ball, side is on the the side. So need to adjust The angle accordingly.

The faster and thinner he brush the ball the more spin he gets. Thick hit sounds more.

Hit the ball Low.

Short serve - first bounce closer to the net
Long serve- first bounce close to your white line

Then it is just about practice.

I think he can start on the floor and try to get the different kind of spin and see how much spin he gets. Experiement.

Then serve on table and just focus on the spin and se What happens.

The at last try to get accuracy. Hit Them so he can use Them. Vary placement and get it low.

Seve is all about practice. The biggest problem in my opinion is that people want better serve But they are not willing to out down the time. If he just Do a little, Maybe 10 min Then and Then i think you Will see a very rapid developement.

Good luck!

That is a good way of practicing feeling the spin, but I think also the order is very important for beginners for a few reasons.
Appreciate your comment.

ttdad
02-02-2020, 07:17 PM
I am teaching my son and daughter so in my experience, if the kid is not tall enough start with flat serve. Once they get some accuracy change it up a little in this order.

1. Flat serve
2. Flat serve with different placement
3. Flat serve with speed ie. fast flat serve
4. Flat fast serve with placement
5. Backhand side spin serve

ttdad
02-02-2020, 07:19 PM
Also I have found that it is easy for them to serve without the toss. I let them do it and slowly add the toss later.

Marko
02-02-2020, 08:18 PM
Also I have found that it is easy for them to serve without the toss. I let them do it and slowly add the toss later.

I dont think that is the best thing to do. They could have problems later hitting it at the right height and it will take a lot of time to get used to it. Many kids who have played before in school or somewhere usually when come to the club it is very hard for them to do it with a toss. But I might be wrong :)

Basten4
02-03-2020, 08:08 PM
Also I have found that it is easy for them to serve without the toss. I let them do it and slowly add the toss later.

Of course it is easier to do it without a toss, same for my kid, but I would agree with Marko here. Its better just to learn to do things the right way.
Serves are going to be pretty simple, so if a toss is the only thing that stands in your way, tough, learn how to do things the right way. I think I am focusing on this with my kid his weekend.

pingpongpaddy
02-03-2020, 08:45 PM
My son just recently started playing TT. He is developing fairly quickly, and now he wants to start playing games. However, he can't serve at all yet unless he just flat hits it.
Since I am not a TT coach, what would like to know what is the best/correct/easiest way to learn some basic useful serves for kids.
I assume it would go something like this:
1. Basic FH backspin.
2. BH backspin
3. BH side spin.
4. Tamahawk (Ovtcharov style)
5. Hook serve or something like this

I'd say he is still a bit too short for trying pendulum at 4'8" (not even talking about skill level)

So far I just asked him to try basic FH backspin serve.

Is there a better order in which to teach serves to kids? Any good instructional videos?

Thanks

Hi basten
i have occasion to coach young beginners on a regular basis.
I find the following works:-
Get something like a shoebox and place it about six inches from the net. just where a serve short to a right hander's forehand would land.
Then stand in the backhand corner and serve fh backspin into the box.
then give your pupil a bunch of balls and challenge him/her to do the same.
the kids love this ! I'll be coaching on another table and they'll be calling "coach i did it" and I'll reply *It only counts if i am watching do it again!" Once they have the general idea you ask then make 10 out 10 or whatever target
You do need to ensure they are trying to apply back spin and not just touching short

Kuba Hajto
02-03-2020, 08:53 PM
Toss I think is one of the very important pieces of serve. It helps with generating spin. Learning hiting ball through serve should also help develop timing, no?

Baal
02-03-2020, 11:24 PM
A brief English lesson for my fellow forum members. You TEACH your students. Hopefully they LEARN what you are teaching. It's a common mistake for people learning English (and you also used to hear it in some very remote rural dialects in southern parts of US).

I wish I could help the OP with the TT question but I've never coached kids, only adults.

Basten4
02-04-2020, 04:10 AM
A brief English lesson for my fellow forum members. You TEACH your students. Hopefully they LEARN what you are teaching. It's a common mistake for people learning English (and you also used to hear it in some very remote rural dialects in southern parts of US).

I wish I could help the OP with the TT question but I've never coached kids, only adults.

Thank you for the lesson in English, but if you don't have anything useful to contribute to discussion, it is probably best not to say anything.
I am not looking for the best way to teach, I want to know the easiest way for a student to learn. There is a big difference in my opinion.

bobpuls
02-04-2020, 02:42 PM
The easiest and really effective with modern euro jap rubbers is the punch, or pull serve (depends on side of blade you are hitting it. )
Planty of variations, and hard to read.... And what is most important it is really easy to learn...
Bad think is many people does not try to teach different serve after this. But trust me is the easiest one to learn.

bobpuls
02-04-2020, 02:45 PM
Here is a video of one member from here....
https://youtu.be/j1YO8jYGEc0
Try to ask him on his opinion... But the mechanic is really simple and deceptive

Basten4
02-04-2020, 08:57 PM
Here is a video of one member from here....
https://youtu.be/j1YO8jYGEc0
Try to ask him on his opinion... But the mechanic is really simple and deceptive

Thanks for the link. Who is the member, do you have a name? Is it one of the ttEdge people?

bobpuls
02-04-2020, 09:10 PM
Nextlevel is his name ...

Basten4
02-04-2020, 09:16 PM
Nextlevel is his name ...
Thanks

bobohex
02-06-2020, 02:47 PM
My dad is a local tennis guru. Been playing since he was 3, coaching for the last 20 years, tournaments every year, plenty of doubles titles. He even took his state team to Nationals one year.
He taught all three of his children when we were young. We suffered through it til about 7 or 8. None of us play to this day.
But I just moved back home, so I'm trying to relearn as a way of bonding with him. I guess my point is, you can teach them the basics, but no guarantee they'll keep with it. No guarantee the won't.

Lula
02-06-2020, 03:15 PM
Internal motivation is needed.

Hysteresis
02-06-2020, 03:30 PM
I think it depends what you meant by 'he wants to start playing games'.

If you mean that as in the sense of formal competition, then the Tomahawk serve is probably the most effective serve for someone for whom height would otherwise be a problem.

You would normally need bend your knees very low for a tomahawk serve, but for someone who would struggle to pendulum serve due to height, they could just stay standing, and otherwise tomahawk serve perfectly normally.

If you mean it in the sense that he just wants to be able to play in the structure of a game, but not in any sort of actual official competition. Then just learning to cut the ball on some kind of forehand action, height allowing, would be more useful developement wise, for them to transition to the regular pendulum serve once they are tall enough.

The tomahawk serve is a cute, novel way to get around the problem of height, and there COULD be a transition into shovel serves once he's taller, and they can have similar blade angles at contact. But the pendulum serve is probably the better serve to aim at for long term developement.

Basten4
02-06-2020, 04:30 PM
I think it depends what you meant by 'he wants to start playing games'.

If you mean that as in the sense of formal competition, then the Tomahawk serve is probably the most effective serve for someone for whom height would otherwise be a problem.

You would normally need bend your knees very low for a tomahawk serve, but for someone who would struggle to pendulum serve due to height, they could just stay standing, and otherwise tomahawk serve perfectly normally.

If you mean it in the sense that he just wants to be able to play in the structure of a game, but not in any sort of actual official competition. Then just learning to cut the ball on some kind of forehand action, height allowing, would be more useful developement wise, for them to transition to the regular pendulum serve once they are tall enough.

The tomahawk serve is a cute, novel way to get around the problem of height, and there COULD be a transition into shovel serves once he's taller, and they can have similar blade angles at contact. But the pendulum serve is probably the better serve to aim at for long term developement.

I mean the 2nd one, before we even talk about any sort of competition, we are talking just friendly matches with me, his uncle or his peers. Tomahawk serve is on my list. I think it is a fairly easy one to learn as well initially. Thanks for your suggestions.