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Dan
05-15-2020, 05:05 PM
Hey guys, so a while back I traveled to Chartres table tennis club in France to meet up with Zoran Primorac to test his legendary blade the Primorac Carbon by Butterfly.

Zoran is a European table tennis legend who has a highest world ranking of 2 and notably played in a record 7 Olympic Games!

Zoran uses his personal blade the Zoran Primorac Carbon paired with Tenergy 05 Rubbers:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iEJdErzgrY

Marko
05-15-2020, 09:48 PM
Great video as always, but I hate when people say Primorak instead of Primorac. In Croatia we pronounce Primorac like you would pronounce Primoratz. It doesn't seem to bother him but it annoys me for some reason :D

Tinykin
05-15-2020, 09:59 PM
Dan, I bet that he coached you on how to properly execute that counter.

TTHopeful
05-16-2020, 07:13 AM
Watched this last night, there seemed to be so many top class players in the previous generation. The Kreanga Carbon anyone remember this? This was very quick to!

Konrad Bak
05-16-2020, 07:24 AM
Primorac carbon its not selling well.

Airoc
05-16-2020, 01:30 PM
Primorac carbon its not selling well.

Maybe these days it seems like too old school. 3 + 2 Tamca Carbon, no Arylate, Zylon, or whatever they call their "new advanced" other fibres, no "Innerforce" variant so people can discuss whether one is 5% faster yet has 6,5% less dwelltime, and also, especially for a Butterfly blade, not even close to 200 Euro.

Just a good old fast blade with remarkable control in a design that doesn´t need fanciness.

Not of this time anymore ;)

Gwenved
05-24-2020, 09:04 PM
Maybe these days it seems like too old school. 3 + 2 Tamca Carbon, no Arylate, Zylon, or whatever they call their "new advanced" other fibres, no "Innerforce" variant so people can discuss whether one is 5% faster yet has 6,5% less dwelltime, and also, especially for a Butterfly blade, not even close to 200 Euro.

Just a good old fast blade with remarkable control in a design that doesn´t need fanciness.

Not of this time anymore ;)

I'm really happy with it, it's a nice blade. one of my team's mate tested mine and bought one too, found it better than lot of "technicals modern" blades from lot of brands ;-)

UpSideDownCarl
05-25-2020, 12:18 AM
Yeah. I think some of this is that Hinoki, has sort of gone out of "style". And I think, with Hinoki + T5000 Carbon you actually get at some of the things that happen with a Koto + ALC or ZLC. With Koto + ALC (or ZLC) the top ply is hard for power and speed, but the Arylate (or Zylon) in the weave of the carbon under the top ply cause the top ply to give so you get the dwell time, ball grab and spin from the softness of the softer polymer in the carbon weave. With the soft Hinoki top ply, having a hard T5000 layer under it, you will get the hardness and pop from the T5000 and you will get the soft give, the grab of the ball and the springiness from the Hinoki top ply. So from both you get good power and massive spin.

If you put a ALC or ZLC weave under the Hinoki top ply, it would be weird because the soft on soft effect would probably make the blade less linear. Also, crazy fast. I also think this is why the Photino, which is a Hinoki top ply with Zylon (no carbon) under the top ply. And without the carbon, the Photino is fast and not so linear.

BTW: I also have a feeling that, if they made an Inner Fiber blade with T5000, Textreme or any other straight up Carbon layer (No Arylate or Zylon) you may just have a better performing blade.

Why do I think this? Next to the outer ply, with the top ply floating on the ALC (or ZLC) layer, you get this great effect of give, grab and catapult that feels amazing and gives you massive spin and good speed. Deeper in, I feel, on bigger shots, the Carbon kick in. But I don't think you get the same effect from having Arylate (or Zylon) in the weave because you are not getting the same kind of give (bend, flex, whatever it is) from the thicker two plies of wood in the Inner Fiber blades. So, you are mostly getting the benefit from the Carbon on the big shots.

To sum up what I am saying: Thin top ply on top of ALC, big response in how the ball causes the top ply to bend and give; two wood plies on top of ALC and the give of the Arylate is not enough to get the two plies to deform anywhere near as much when you do get to the Carbon. This is particularly the case if the top two plies have the grain at 90-degree angles to each other (ie: top ply vertical, second ply, side to side).

I cold be totally wrong. But I have a feeling an Inner Fiber T5000 would be fun to try.

NextLevel
05-25-2020, 12:34 PM
Yeah. I think some of this is that Hinoki, has sort of gone out of "style". And I think, with Hinoki + T5000 Carbon you actually get at some of the things that happen with a Koto + ALC or ZLC. With Koto + ALC (or ZLC) the top ply is hard for power and speed, but the Arylate (or Zylon) in the weave of the carbon under the top ply cause the top ply to give so you get the dwell time, ball grab and spin from the softness of the softer polymer in the carbon weave. With the soft Hinoki top ply, having a hard T5000 layer under it, you will get the hardness and pop from the T5000 and you will get the soft give, the grab of the ball and the springiness from the Hinoki top ply. So from both you get good power and massive spin.

If you put a ALC or ZLC weave under the Hinoki top ply, it would be weird because the soft on soft effect would probably make the blade less linear. Also, crazy fast. I also think this is why the Photino, which is a Hinoki top ply with Zylon (no carbon) under the top ply. And without the carbon, the Photino is fast and not so linear.

BTW: I also have a feeling that, if they made an Inner Fiber blade with T5000, Textreme or any other straight up Carbon layer (No Arylate or Zylon) you may just have a better performing blade.

Why do I think this? Next to the outer ply, with the top ply floating on the ALC (or ZLC) layer, you get this great effect of give, grab and catapult that feels amazing and gives you massive spin and good speed. Deeper in, I feel, on bigger shots, the Carbon kick in. But I don't think you get the same effect from having Arylate (or Zylon) in the weave because you are not getting the same kind of give (bend, flex, whatever it is) from the thicker two plies of wood in the Inner Fiber blades. So, you are mostly getting the benefit from the Carbon on the big shots.

To sum up what I am saying: Thin top ply on top of ALC, big response in how the ball causes the top ply to bend and give; two wood plies on top of ALC and the give of the Arylate is not enough to get the two plies to deform anywhere near as much when you do get to the Carbon. This is particularly the case if the top two plies have the grain at 90-degree angles to each other (ie: top ply vertical, second ply, side to side).

I cold be totally wrong. But I have a feeling an Inner Fiber T5000 would be fun to try.


The innerfiber T5000 used to exist, it didn't solve all the problems you noted though. I still have a couple but I haven't tried them in a while. The problem with T5000 is the arc, for modern play you don't get spin on the ball so it places more limits on the shots you can play. At lower levels it would be a beast but as you get better and play with more spin and less speed, opening is restrictive. This is my take though.

UpSideDownCarl
05-25-2020, 02:52 PM
The innerfiber T5000 used to exist, it didn't solve all the problems you noted though. I still have a couple but I haven't tried them in a while. The problem with T5000 is the arc, for modern play you don't get spin on the ball so it places more limits on the shots you can play. At lower levels it would be a beast but as you get better and play with more spin and less speed, opening is restrictive. This is my take though.

Interesting. Maybe T5000 just works better with Hinoki. Still, I would not want a blade as fast as the Primorac Carbon for the same reason as you are explaining. Spin over speed.

Konrad Bak
05-25-2020, 09:59 PM
I had
Innerforce t5000
Innerforce Al
Innerforce Alc
Innerforce ZLF
Innerforce ZLC
Innerforce JLC
Innerforce Zeilon
Innerforce Kevlar
Innerforce Arylate
Inner-Outer - Fleece Carbon/ Kevlar
There is a lot of difference in all materials and structure but only Fleece Carbon gives you pure control.

Nazmul Haque
05-27-2020, 05:46 PM
Konrad, how much is the price of innerforce ALC and zlf?

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