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View Full Version : Yasaka Rakza Z and Rakza Z Extra Hard rubbers



yogi_bear
06-02-2020, 05:37 PM
Rakza Z

https://i.imgur.com/ffFKu5N.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/p5vj0eJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rSDdMjg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1wx8G38.jpg

Rakza Z Extra Hard

https://i.imgur.com/TwLx2gl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5fkDgar.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jgeeIDm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/c510eBQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iTpkc2S.jpg




Rakza Z and Rakza Z Extra Hard Reviews

It took me a few years to review something from Yasaka again. The last rubber and blade I have reviewed were, Rakza 9 and Rakza 9 soft with Yasaka Galaxya. I was glad that Olle from Woodhouse Tranas contacted me to try the new Rakza Z rubbers. It took a while to receive the parcel from Sweden because of the Covid crisis around the world. In the first few days, I was only testing this using the return board but was fortunate to have the community lockdown ease up a little bit and people whom I played can come over to my place and play with me. Only regret I have is that at that time the Falck blades were still not available at that time so I choose to have my favorite Yasaka blade, Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon to use as a blade in the test instead.

Specs of the 2 rubbers:

Rakza Z
Weight: 74 grams (approximate uncut)
52 grams cut to a size of 157x150mm
Speed: Off+
Thickness: Max
Hardness: 50 -52 degrees approx.

Rakza Z Extra Hard
Weight: 76 grams (approximate uncut)
54 grams cut to a size of 157x150mm
Speed: Off+
Thickness: Max
Hardness: 53-57degrees approx.

I was excited to test the rubbers since I heard they have a tacky topsheet. I opened the packaging and the rubbers have a plastic sheet covering sticking to the topsheet. I opened both the Rakza Z and Rakza Z Extra Hard and I could tell immediately that it is semi-tacky. I wiped the topsheets of both rubbers with wet sponge because I wanted to see how tacky it is after the initial cleaning. I can say that the tackiness or stickiness of the rubbers is not in the level of Chinese rubbers. The Yasaka Do rubber that Yasaka had before in their arsenal was way extremely tacky and was one of the tackiest rubbers I have encountered. The tackiness is lesser than that of the Hurricane 3 or Rising/Shining Dragon rubbers. I could compare the tackiness near to DHS Tin Arc rubbers or Stiga Genesis rubbers. The 2 rubbers are distinguished by their sponge colors. The regular Rakza Z has a creamy white sponge while the Rakza Z Extra Hard has an orange sponge. The pores are quite small or minute compared to the pores of Yasaka Rakza 7 rubbers. I know that Yasaka advertised both rubbers with a range of hardness but with my personal estimate and comparison with other ESN rubbers, the regular Rakza Z felt about 50 or 51 degrees while the Rakza Z Extra Hard felt it was like 55 degrees. The topsheet like other 50 degree or harder rubbers has a short pimple structure reminiscent of Chinese rubbers.

Speed

Both rubbers are very fast. The speed is evident on both rubbers the moment you do forehand to forehand drive warm up drills. I would say that the speed is evident because personally, the Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon is not a super fast blade. I would rate it as an Off blade and not an Off+ blade. It is more of a controlled looping blade with a medium-soft feel and flex. When compared to the Rakza 7, the regular Rakza Z is faster with an obvious gap. I would say the speed of the regular Rakza Z is comparable to the Rakza 9 regular. The Rakza Z Extra Hard is even faster since the very hard sponge has a lot of speed potential when you know how to compress the sponge properly in your shots. If you compare it with Tenergy rubbers, the regular Rakza Z seems faster than Tenergy 05 but slower than Tenergy 64 while the Extra Hard version seems like equal or faster than Tenergy 64.

Spin

The Rakza Z rubbers are one of the spiniest ESN rubbers in the market right now. If the Rakza Z series has a very obvious characteristic, it is spin and tons of spin. I believe the rubbers in the market have evolved to having semi-tacky/full tacky from just being grippy. I have told people about this story that happened years ago. I suggested to a rubber company with ESN rubber products that maybe they can produce a rubber that has a tacky or semi-tacky topsheet over an ESN sponge. You get the spin of a Hurricane 3 rubber while having the speed of fast ESN rubbers. The idea got rejected saying that it was not good or practical, rubbers would lose speed and such. Nowadays, ESN sponges are going on the harder spectrum with some even reaching 60 degrees with sticky or tacky topsheet. I have 2 points on this situation. One is that the way to go if you wanted a higher amount of spin for rubbers, you would need to be tacky. Having a hard sponge and short pip structure sometimes affect the amount of spin produced if the topsheet is not tacky. I have tried very hard rubbers with same pip structures but are not tacky, the spin is way less and also you would need to compress the sponge harder just to produce a good amount of spin. Second, I think this is a way also to go into the path of having a faster Hurricane 3-like rubber. DHS Hurricane 3 is not easy to use even if you have the skills but did not boost it because
It takes a lot of effort to produce speed even at higher levels. So I am seeing rubbers that have Chinese rubber-like characteristics but with speed or power that an ESN rubber offers or what we call having “hybrid properties” having the best of both worlds. To compare the spin, both rubbers have more spin than Tenergy 05. Both are as spinny as Hurricane 3 with a higher arc. The regular Rakza Z has a slightly higher arc than the Extra Hard version. If I compare it to Tenergy 05, both rubbers have a lesser arc when doing loops. I looped the balls both underspin and topspin with almost a closed angle and it was not hard to lift especially underspin balls. Both rubbers are excellent in both serving and pushing strokes. The tacky topsheet emulates pushing underspin balls like using a Chinese rubber or serving using one.

Control

I was intrigued that I saw a video seeing the Rakza Z rubber users having difficulty in controlling the rubbers. I removed the rubbers from the Ma Lin Soft Carbon and place it in a hinoki carbon-aramid blade that is on the off+ speed just to check and verify. The combination is sure very fast with the Rakza Z Extra Hard edging the regular version by a few notches. The combination was very bouncy and in my opinion, it takes a bit of skill to fully control the Z series rubbers if you are using a very fast blade like pure carbon blades that are stiff and fast. You would see the ball fly out of the table. However, I see 2 simple solutions on this issue. One, having tacky topsheets, it is better to use the Z series rubbers with a closed angle like when looping with a Chinese rubber. Two, use an off level blade that has more flex. Rubbers nowadays are already very fast so using super fast carbon blades is not that practical anymore. When blocking, you needed to have a closed angle also with the 2 rubbers. The topsheet like any other tacky rubber has some sensitivity to incoming spin that is why it takes a bit of advanced level of skill.


Smashing
It is not as hard to smash balls compared to using Hurricane 3 rubbers. I find the Extra Hard version more powerful to smash with while the regular version is more user-friendly. Both rubbers are outstanding in smashes and spin drives.

Overall Impression

Both the Rakza Z and Rakza Z Extra Hard rubbers are for advanced level players. If you really wanted to use these 2 rubbers but is still learning the basic strokes, I would choose another Rakza rubber like Rakza 7 or to some extent a thinner version of Rakza Z like 2.0mm or thinner if available. Overall, the rubber is surprisingly outstanding and was not expecting to be just another “meehhh” rubber produced by ESN.


https://i.imgur.com/j6AOwlg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/htpdLQG.jpg

goodhand
06-02-2020, 06:25 PM
Yogi,

Thanks for another great review. Always enjoyed reading your reviews.

Just wondering, would you please compare (may be in the form of a table) or rank the top rubbers that came out recently, like Rakza Z, Dynaryz, O7 Hyper, etc. in terms of speed, spin and control.

That would help a lot of people to choose their next rubber.

ZeroTT
06-02-2020, 06:30 PM
What is also interesting is:
Rakza Z Price in Belgium is 35 euro, while Dignics 09c is 80 Euro.
That is a huge difference.

I guess this is an answer to Butterfly's Dignics 09c ?

guni4you
06-02-2020, 07:17 PM
How is it compared to dignics 09c?

yogi_bear
06-02-2020, 10:46 PM
Yogi,

Thanks for another great review. Always enjoyed reading your reviews.

Just wondering, would you please compare (may be in the form of a table) or rank the top rubbers that came out recently, like Rakza Z, Dynaryz, O7 Hyper, etc. in terms of speed, spin and control.

That would help a lot of people to choose their next rubber.
Too much work and i might be called biased so i would rather not have that.

yogi_bear
06-02-2020, 10:46 PM
How is it compared to dignics 09c?

Have not tried dignics 09c.

yogi_bear
06-02-2020, 10:48 PM
This is closer to the Joola Golden Tango.

Nate4s
06-02-2020, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the review! I'm very interested in trying it out myself. Would you say it shares any similarities to Xiom Omega V Tour?

Konrad Bak
06-03-2020, 04:08 AM
First generation of Semi tacky rubber is Stiga Mantra and Goldarc 8
I will elaborate later.

yogi_bear
06-03-2020, 04:14 AM
Stiga mantra is not a tacky rubber. Stiga Genesis is.

Snappy
06-03-2020, 04:43 AM
What is the wood composition of the Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon?

yogi_bear
06-03-2020, 05:30 AM
If i am not mistaken it is anigre outer plies.

zeio
06-03-2020, 06:35 AM
Palio Thors is the first porous tacky Tensor, released around 10 years ago. It was all the rage not long after the glue ban. That was a time when your typical German brands tried so hard to imitate Tenergy with Baracuda/Hexer/Genius. Palio was so ahead of its time. 54°(52-55°) sponge with a softish topsheet!

Konrad Bak
06-03-2020, 09:01 AM
You right

yogi_bear
06-03-2020, 10:15 AM
Palio Thors is the first porous tacky Tensor, released around 10 years ago. It was all the rage not long after the glue ban. That was a time when your typical German brands tried so hard to imitate Tenergy with Baracuda/Hexer/Genius. Palio was so ahead of its time. 54°(52-55°) sponge with a softish topsheet!
Ritc was even more advanced. Remember those ritc rubbers with German sponges? Those were the first real hybrids back in early 2000s.

zeio
06-03-2020, 04:47 PM
Ugh, the excitement and disappointment (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71175&PID=869766&title=more-control-without-compromising-on-speed#869766) of putting 729 topsheet on top of Japanese GP or Bomb sponge in the 90s...

nazarit
06-14-2020, 04:31 AM
Thanks for great review. Rakza Z is more valuable(low price rubber) to come close to Dignics09C from Butterfly.

haggisv
06-14-2020, 08:53 AM
Nice review Yogi!

Since this rubber is also a German ESN rubber, do you think they're similar and use the same technology as other recent tacky Tensors, like Joola Golden Tango PS, Donic Bluegrip series, Tibhar Hybrid series, etc?

yogi_bear
06-14-2020, 09:47 AM
It is less tackier than the Hybrid series but faster and it is nearest to the Golden Tango rubbers but they kinda felt different.

shinshiro
06-15-2020, 03:39 AM
It is less tackier than the Hybrid series but faster and it is nearest to the Golden Tango rubbers but they kinda felt different.

Did you notice any difference in spin between Golden Tango rubbers and the Rakza Z rubbers? Or they are about the same?

And thanks for the review, this rubber seems really good

yogi_bear
06-15-2020, 04:19 AM
Did you notice any difference in spin between Golden Tango rubbers and the Rakza Z rubbers? Or they are about the same?

And thanks for the review, this rubber seems really good
Seem equal in spin with a more Chinese-like feel on the Tango.

Dman
06-15-2020, 06:24 AM
How durable is the rubber?

yogi_bear
06-15-2020, 09:43 AM
How durable is the rubber?

Seems good but need more time to tell the durability.

P1ngP0ng3r
06-15-2020, 10:02 AM
Hi yogi_bear, how is the speed of Rakza Z compared to Vega X and does the hardness feels somewhat same ? (or does one feel softer vs the other?)

Thanks!

yogi_bear
06-15-2020, 04:51 PM
Hi yogi_bear, how is the speed of Rakza Z compared to Vega X and does the hardness feels somewhat same ? (or does one feel softer vs the other?)

Thanks!
Vega x is supposedly softer at 47.5 degrees while my rakza z regular is at least 50 degrees. The rakza is somewhat faster by a all margin due to its tackiness reducing some of the speed.

matzreenzi
06-15-2020, 05:44 PM
Yogi, how about Rakza Z vs Omega 7 Guang or Ying in term of spin and speed? Thank you.

JustANoob
06-15-2020, 08:44 PM
Vega x is supposedly softer at 47.5 degrees while my rakza z regular is at least 50 degrees. The rakza is somewhat faster by a all margin due to its tackiness reducing some of the speed.

I am a bit confused here, are you saying the rakza is harder and thus faster but only barely because of the tackiness ?

Konrad Bak
06-15-2020, 11:14 PM
X is very fast rubber. So i dont believe too.

yogi_bear
06-16-2020, 06:14 PM
Because the tackiness reduces the speed. Had the Rakza Z have a non-semi sticky top, it would be much faster than the Vega X by a wide margin.

sampletext
06-16-2020, 06:28 PM
So what is the best hybrid rubber? Now that there are so many options.

yogi_bear
06-17-2020, 01:17 AM
So what is the best hybrid rubber? Now that there are so many options.
I would say the Rakza Z Extra Hard is good, Omega 7 China Guang and Joola Golden Tango PS. All 3 are good.

Kuba Hajto
06-17-2020, 06:58 AM
I would say the Rakza Z Extra Hard is good, Omega 7 China Guang and Joola Golden Tango PS. All 3 are good.

Would you mind ranking them in terms of ease of use? Joola Golden Tango is easiest to handle?

yogi_bear
06-17-2020, 09:04 AM
Hardest Guang since this is for higher level players, easiest is Rakza Z

darkmoor1
06-21-2020, 12:39 AM
Maybe it was not a proper quality sheet of Golden Tango PS I got, but it was fast, I mean really fast, monstrously spinny even with little effort, and pretty hard to control. IF Rakza Z's the significant improvement in the control department over T PS, while it comes with its spin and speed, then it must be a huge success in the near future!

Yogi, how do you compare Rakza Z's to Kokutaku 007 Pro.Selected ? Let's say a well boosted Pro.Selected ?

Kolev
06-21-2020, 10:19 AM
I wonder how would the Z be in 2.0mm? It's a hard rubber and I guess it won't be easy to bottom it out. My concern is the weight of the max... Also, Yogi have probably mentioned the ability to open against back spin but I missed that moment so how is it? Thanks

yogi_bear
06-21-2020, 04:04 PM
Looing is a walk in the park vs backspin witj rakza z.
Also, Kokutaku 007 Pro is way slower with almost same spin.

Kolev
06-23-2020, 12:28 AM
I know very well the Rakza X cause I've been playing with it for quite some time and know its properties very well. Could anyone familiar with both make a comparison between the X and Z ?
BTW , I miss the Y in the bunch . It will be a spot on to have a Rakza Y. Could have been so questionable...

zaw thwe
06-25-2020, 05:48 AM
HOw about service receive of razka z bouncy or good for short return

yogi_bear
06-25-2020, 09:28 AM
Well the hard sponge and semi tacky topsheet act like a chinese rubber when doimg serves so it is good.

SwordBreak
06-28-2020, 07:11 AM
Well the hard sponge and semi tacky topsheet act like a chinese rubber when doimg serves so it is good.

does rakza z hard favour thin brushing like h3?or need to engage the sponge during looping?

yogi_bear
06-28-2020, 08:58 PM
It can do fine with both types of contact but is better if you combine brushing and sponge compression.

Torbspin
07-08-2020, 08:14 PM
Can someone compare the rakza z to the nittaku pk 50 Sieger?
I have to chose between for testing

Konrad Bak
07-10-2020, 10:06 PM
i READ from one of the best revspin reviewer that Sieger is better but second best reviewer wrote me that Z normal is top 3

Torbspin
07-13-2020, 05:12 PM
i READ from one of the best revspin reviewer that Sieger is better but second best reviewer wrote me that Z normal is top 3
I would go with the one which has more speed. I will try one of them on a Boll Alc but still don't know which one.

Michael Kitt
07-15-2020, 10:06 PM
Yogi, the reviews here are very different than yours in regards to speed. I was just about to go ahead and buy a sheet in 2.0 thickness, but if these reviews are to be believed then it seems that might be too slow. Using Long 5X blade.

https://tabletennis-reference.com/rubber/detail/723

yogi_bear
07-16-2020, 05:02 PM
Yogi, the reviews here are very different than yours in regards to speed. I was just about to go ahead and buy a sheet in 2.0 thickness, but if these reviews are to be believed then it seems that might be too slow. Using Long 5X blade.

https://tabletennis-reference.com/rubber/detail/723

Lol, i would never ever call Rakza Z regular slow. To call it slow is very inaccurate.also, i already state that it is not blazingly fast but it is fast especially with the extra hard due to the hard sponge. Unlike other people, i did give references for speed so that you can compare.

P1ngP0ng3r
07-16-2020, 07:14 PM
Giving a rubber a certain speed-label depends on your reference. Many reviews lack vital additional information to make the review actually useful.

I'm currently testing both Vega X (1.8mm) and Rakza Z (2mm)on a Hugo SAL. Only played approx. 5hrs so far, so still not enough playtime for a proper review.

Compared to Rakza 7 (also 2mm) the Z is significantly faster. Even on the SAL, the Z provides more speed then I'm used to and prefer. I surely wouldn't put the Z on the my Freitas (which I barely use tbh), as for me, the speed would be way too much.

Compared with some other rubbers I used to play, Rakza Z is faster then Vega X Vega Tour, EL-S, FastArc G1, Rakza 7, Rakza X Soft, Mantra M, Acuda P2.
(all in 2.0-2.1mm except for Vega X (1.8mm))

Michael Kitt
07-16-2020, 10:02 PM
I've also seen a review saying that it's way slower than both Rakza 7 and Rakza 7 soft, lol, so I can't be certain unless I drop about $50 to try it myself. I'm considering using it to replace my H3 National, so I'd imagine it's at least faster than that anyways. Power at forehand I consider very important. Thanks for your reviews, either way.

sponge
07-19-2020, 06:10 AM
21660
According to the catalogue Rakza Z is the slowest from the Rakza series excluding the soft versions. I wonder how the manufacturer tests the speed of rubbers, do simply test the bounce (in which case the Rakza z would be slow because of the stickiness) or do they use appropriate strokes for each rubbers to show the maximum speed.
Can someone tell me how the spin sensitivity compares particularly to Omega 7 China and if possible to Genesis M or T64.

Michael Kitt
07-20-2020, 04:16 AM
I went ahead and bought a sheet of Rakza Z 2.0. Your assessments are good, it is still fast, with good touch. In some ways it feels almost the same as H3 Nat in play, it's a bit bouncier in some instances though. Only one session in, not sure which is overall easier to play with on forehand, it's close.

I can't really answer about spin sensitivity yet except to say it's probably not a big issue with this rubber, and blocking with it felt a bit different than what I'm used to, but easy. It didn't throw the ball up with much bounce vs an average speed topspin shot. And that's on backhand. On forehand I didn't think about sensitivity at all, just felt like H3.

Side note, Omega 7 Pro is too bouncy on backhand, it's kinda annoying actually, on Off+blade. 07 Hyper is actually much easier to control on pushes/touches. Might just play Razka Z both sides.

David247
07-20-2020, 06:29 PM
Agree, also think they felt different.

EhJay
07-21-2020, 08:02 PM
Does the Extra Hard Version still allow to emergency loop the ball on the table when out of position or slightly late? With Joola Golden Tango PS (50 deg hardness) this was still possible.

Michael Kitt
07-22-2020, 04:32 AM
Yeah after hitting with this more I don't really see any reason to use H3 over this for forehand. It is basically just a better version of H3 Nat, better control, generally faster, but you have to hit a Chinese type stroke still, at least on an off+ blade.
Had someone else try my setup but he was struggling because this isn't good for flat hitting or even somewhat open racket hitting unless you have a slow blade. My search for the perfect forehand rubber is over.

Some might consider it perfect for backhand...

ZeroTT
07-22-2020, 02:29 PM
Right now it's for sale in Belgium for 29 Euro
http://www.dandoy-sports.com/

That's insane compared to dignics 09c 's 80 Euro's
Considering these 2 rubbers have comparable qualities.

SFF_lib
07-24-2020, 12:00 PM
Hi Michael

I have used provincial H3 and TG2 for a long time. As ages catches on me I have been looking for an alternative that is easier on my back. I have tried a number of rubbers including K1, K1 plus, Golden tango and R53. I like K1 and K1 plus but their spin is inferior to H3. Golden tango is extremely fast with a long trajectory. My favourite so far is Andro R53. It's half tacky but due to the pimple structure is produces insane spin comparable to H3. The feel and control is superb.

I just wonder if you have played R53? Or can you comment on the feel of Rakza Z?


Yeah after hitting with this more I don't really see any reason to use H3 over this for forehand. It is basically just a better version of H3 Nat, better control, generally faster, but you have to hit a Chinese type stroke still, at least on an off+ blade.
Had someone else try my setup but he was struggling because this isn't good for flat hitting or even somewhat open racket hitting unless you have a slow blade. My search for the perfect forehand rubber is over.

Some might consider it perfect for backhand...

zyu81
07-24-2020, 02:57 PM
Does the Extra Hard Version still allow to emergency loop the ball on the table when out of position or slightly late? With Joola Golden Tango PS (50 deg hardness) this was still possible.

As a general rule, this is more difficult with harder rubbers, and tacky rubbers.

Michael Kitt
07-24-2020, 04:30 PM
Hi Michael

I have used provincial H3 and TG2 for a long time.

I just wonder if you have played R53? Or can you comment on the feel of Rakza Z?

I have not tried R53.

Rakza Z feels like a bit livelier version of H3 provincial/Nat. If you do a bounce test, before play, it has a very similar dead feel that kills the bounce.

Spin seems very comparable, control is remarkable. On drives it has more catapult with less effort than H3, while at the same time providing more forgiveness. It will send the ball flying off the table more readily than H3 due to this though, so you have to close bat angle more on softer hitting forehands than with H3.

Looping underspin you can get a very low arch slightly easier than with H3.

I'm still finding H3 a bit easier to use on backhand than Rakza Z though for some reason, probably just because my backhand needs more time to adapt than forehand.

UpSideDownCarl
07-25-2020, 01:14 AM
I have not tried R53.

Rakza Z feels like a bit livelier version of H3 provincial/Nat. If you do a bounce test, before play, it has a very similar dead feel that kills the bounce.

Spin seems very comparable, control is remarkable. On drives it has more catapult with less effort than H3, while at the same time providing more forgiveness. It will send the ball flying off the table more readily than H3 due to this though, so you have to close bat angle more on softer hitting forehands than with H3.

Looping underspin you can get a very low arch slightly easier than with H3.

I'm still finding H3 a bit easier to use on backhand than Rakza Z though for some reason, probably just because my backhand needs more time to adapt than forehand.

What hardness of H3 are you using for your BH?

ant-man
07-25-2020, 01:19 AM
I posted a comparison of Rakza Z and 09c on the "Dignics 09c Review" thread, some of you may be interested. I sure would have been interested to read it before I got Rakza Z! Haha.

Michael Kitt
07-25-2020, 01:44 AM
Yeah that's interesting, ant, since I use Long 5x as well. Based on your review I would prefer Rakza Z over 09c. Throw angle vs H3 is favorable, since you can make it barely clear the net regardless but that extra level of safety is nice.

Using 39 degree orange H3 Nat on backhand currently but will probably switch to Rakza Z max once I get more comfortable with it on that side.

ttarc
08-05-2020, 05:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ7dIGm66W0

Comparison between 09c and Rakza Z. The player/trainer who's testing them has a very decent technique. Just from watching I can spot some differences between 09c and Z but due to the completely unintelligible auto-translated subtitles I don't know what he is saying about the rubbers...

Kuba Hajto
08-05-2020, 06:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ7dIGm66W0

Comparison between 09c and Rakza Z. The player/trainer who's testing them has a very decent technique. Just from watching I can spot some differences between 09c and Z but due to the completely unintelligible auto-translated subtitles I don't know what he is saying about the rubbers...

I would say his technique is very adequate.

EhJay
08-05-2020, 06:45 PM
I finally bought a sheet of Rakza Z in max. thickness. I previously played with Joola Golden Tango PS max. (forehand) on Latika Carbon, so I can compare those two. On the same blade Rakza Z is definitely a bit faster and bouncier, even compared to a new sheet of GT PS. I would say the topsheet feels a bit harder; spin capability seemed equal to me. Hardness is about the same, the sponge may be slightly softer than GT PS.

Konrad Bak
08-05-2020, 11:28 PM
Mam battle 2 i yinhe moon speed hard za 111 zl czyli taniej niz aliexpress .
Sorry, good technique

darkmoor1
08-07-2020, 04:46 PM
I finally bought a sheet of Rakza Z in max. thickness. I previously played with Joola Golden Tango PS max. (forehand) on Latika Carbon, so I can compare those two. On the same blade Rakza Z is definitely a bit faster and bouncier, even compared to a new sheet of GT PS. I would say the topsheet feels a bit harder; spin capability seemed equal to me. Hardness is about the same, the sponge may be slightly softer than GT PS.

So it is interesting that so much hype sees the light of the day when the popular rubbers/brands come into question, since, as it appears, Rakza is the same sort of rubber as Joola GT PS, but I don't remember much discussion about Joola as there was no such rubber out yet from Butterfly.

yogi_bear
08-07-2020, 06:30 PM
in fairness, I think Rakza Z is really popular now because its price is cheaper than most high-end ESN rubbers. Joola released the Golden Tango and Tango PS more than a year ago I think. They have similarities but performance wise they also have differences. Joola is more focused on its Dynaryz rubbers which are also top notch that is why GT and GT PS seem not to be in discussions these days.

zyu81
08-07-2020, 06:33 PM
in fairness, I think Rakza Z is really popular now because its price is cheaper than most high-end ESN rubbers. Joola released the Golden Tango and Tango PS more than a year ago I think. They have similarities but performance wise they also have differences. Joola is more focused on its Dynaryz rubbers which are also top notch that is why GT and GT PS seem not to be in discussions these days.

I think part of it is that the Rakza series has much more name recognition than Golden Tango.

Kuba Hajto
08-07-2020, 08:09 PM
in fairness, I think Rakza Z is really popular now because its price is cheaper than most high-end ESN rubbers. Joola released the Golden Tango and Tango PS more than a year ago I think. They have similarities but performance wise they also have differences. Joola is more focused on its Dynaryz rubbers which are also top notch that is why GT and GT PS seem not to be in discussions these days.

In Poland Rakza Z is more expensive than most of Esn rubbers here on Poland. Joola Golden Tango PS is 30$, Vega China 30$, Blue grip C1 in presale for 45$ ( can't see it now available) while Rakza Z is about 50. (Calculated with exchange rate roughly 3.71)

yogi_bear
08-07-2020, 08:28 PM
In Poland Rakza Z is more expensive than most of Esn rubbers here on Poland. Joola Golden Tango PS is 30$, Vega China 30$, Blue grip C1 in presale for 45$ ( can't see it now available) while Rakza Z is about 50. (Calculated with exchange rate roughly 3.71)

must be regional pricing. some sites have 42 usd.

ttarc
08-07-2020, 09:13 PM
In Poland Rakza Z is more expensive than most of Esn rubbers here on Poland. Joola Golden Tango PS is 30$, Vega China 30$, Blue grip C1 in presale for 45$ ( can't see it now available) while Rakza Z is about 50. (Calculated with exchange rate roughly 3.71)

In Germany depending on where you buy it it's around 48.90€ incl. VAT or 39,12€ if you buy two rubbers (the usual 20% off if one buys more than one rubber there). Tabletennis11 currently sells it for 33.68€ (normal price 44.90€ and that's even cheaper than a H3 Neo Provincial there). Blue Grip C1/C2 currently 49.90€ (39.92€ for two). If the info from https://schoeler-micke.tabletennis-shop.de/Donic-Blue-Grip-C1.1112021.html is correct than the C1 weights 90g (C2 80g) if that includes the packaging than it would be very light but I highly doubt that (my normal Rakza Z was around 73g uncut) so the C1 is very likely a real brick with maybe 63g (90g * 0.7) cut.

quanghuysk
08-07-2020, 09:25 PM
C'mon. In Slovakia, Rakza Z and Rakza Z extra hard are just ~30 Eu. I think they do ship to Poland :)
https://www.funstar.sk/produkty/yasaka/yasaka-potah-rakza-z
http://www.pincesobchod.sk/zYA0037-Potah--Yasaka--Rakza--Z.html

Kuba Hajto
08-07-2020, 09:34 PM
It seems that we just have crappy yasaka distributor :/

Wysłane z mojego ONEPLUS A6013 przy użyciu Tapatalka

darkmoor1
08-07-2020, 09:41 PM
in fairness, I think Rakza Z is really popular now because its price is cheaper than most high-end ESN rubbers. Joola released the Golden Tango and Tango PS more than a year ago I think. They have similarities but performance wise they also have differences. Joola is more focused on its Dynaryz rubbers which are also top notch that is why GT and GT PS seem not to be in discussions these days.

It's be very interesting to know about these differences (J.GT PS vs R. Z), and you can surely have a say on that, yogi

Kuba Hajto
08-08-2020, 02:04 PM
Also I am curious about whether Rakza Z become garbage in humid conditions like most of tacky rubbers.

yogi_bear
08-08-2020, 06:35 PM
It's be very interesting to know about these differences (J.GT PS vs R. Z), and you can surely have a say on that, yogi
I think i compared them in this thread. You need to go back a few pages before.

yogi_bear
08-08-2020, 06:37 PM
Also I am curious about whether Rakza Z become garbage in humid conditions like most of tacky rubbers.

Not able to test it in a very hot and humid weather. I also have not played yet when it is raining outside at the same time.

yogi_bear
08-08-2020, 06:38 PM
It seems that we just have crappy yasaka distributor :/

Wysłane z mojego ONEPLUS A6013 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Are import taxes high in your country? Maybe it is that or the distributor really sells it that high?

Nazmul Haque
08-08-2020, 06:39 PM
Thank you Yogi for enlighting on Rakza Z very nicely. Can I try it or would it be wise and safe to use Rakza Z on Stiga Rosewood NCT VII where currently I am using Mantra S in both sides? As I need more power in forehand and if I use Rakza Z in forehand what would be the best choice of backhand rubber?

Kuba Hajto
08-08-2020, 06:49 PM
Are import taxes high in your country? Maybe it is that or the distributor really sells it that high?

The prices of most rubbers here are same as in the rest of Europe. Yasaka seems to be only outlier I've found. We are in the Eu so we are don't have much premium over ESN stuff. (xiom rubbers are even outstandingly cheap here, especially omegas 7 had awesome prices lately) I don't think that rakza is esn though. If I end up buying new rubbers for FH i might consider this Rakza Z. Chinese seller sold me old faulty Battle 2 prov, and is sending me next sheet to compensate, so I guess I have FH rubbers for a year or two, lolz.

I have Joola GTPS on my spare, it feels bad. I can't feel the ball as nicely as on Vega China or Jupiter 2. Even Brick unboosted Battle 2 has better feeling. Is it the same case for Rakza Z?

Nazmul Haque
08-08-2020, 07:36 PM
Rakza z is only suitable in Yasaka Ma Lin soft carbon or I can try it in my Rosewood NCT VII as forehand rubber?

Tango K
08-09-2020, 10:45 AM
Thank you Yogi for enlighting on Rakza Z very nicely. Can I try it or would it be wise and safe to use Rakza Z on Stiga Rosewood NCT VII where currently I am using Mantra S in both sides? As I need more power in forehand and if I use Rakza Z in forehand what would be the best choice of backhand rubber?

Does that “S“ in Mantra S meaN “soft”. If so, you are gonna see a big change. The Z is harder than an average ESN, 2 steps harder than a soft ESN.

EhJay
08-09-2020, 11:24 AM
The prices of most rubbers here are same as in the rest of Europe. Yasaka seems to be only outlier I've found. We are in the Eu so we are don't have much premium over ESN stuff. (xiom rubbers are even outstandingly cheap here, especially omegas 7 had awesome prices lately) I don't think that rakza is esn though. If I end up buying new rubbers for FH i might consider this Rakza Z. Chinese seller sold me old faulty Battle 2 prov, and is sending me next sheet to compensate, so I guess I have FH rubbers for a year or two, lolz.

I have Joola GTPS on my spare, it feels bad. I can't feel the ball as nicely as on Vega China or Jupiter 2. Even Brick unboosted Battle 2 has better feeling. Is it the same case for Rakza Z?

Rakza Z has a softish feel much alike GTPS. I guess the extra hard version might me more suitable for players who have good footwork in competition.

Kuba Hajto
08-09-2020, 11:38 AM
Rakza Z has a softish feel much alike GTPS. I guess the extra hard version might me more suitable for players who have good footwork in competition.

What if my footwork is garbage but I like hard rubbers?

EhJay
08-09-2020, 12:04 PM
What if my footwork is garbage but I like hard rubbers?

Then just buy the extra hard version, try it and write a review:cool:
With the harder rubber one is forced to improve technique, however more points will be lost in tournaments during the process.
That's why i bought the normal 'soft' version for the upcoming season.

yogi_bear
08-09-2020, 06:29 PM
I tested the Rakza Extra Hard today along with the Dignics 09c and in my opinion for a rubber that is almost twice as the RZ EH, the D09c needs more effort in producing more spin than RZ EH.

Tango K
08-09-2020, 07:34 PM
I tested the Rakza Extra Hard today along with the Dignics 09c and in my opinion for a rubber that is almost twice as the RZ EH, the D09c needs more effort in producing more spin than RZ EH.

Both are certainly beyond me but just a curiosity which one is and feels harder

yogi_bear
08-10-2020, 10:37 AM
D09c is marginally harder than RZ EH.

Vxneji
08-30-2020, 11:16 AM
Would you say its good for opening up backspin on BH side ?

Vxneji
08-30-2020, 11:17 AM
How does it compare to Rakza X?
was planning to get Z but u have stated it is more advanced players, and im not advanced myself so would X be a better alternative ? how is X different to Z

virtuososiu
08-30-2020, 11:20 AM
Seems good but need more time to tell the durability.
Thank you for sharing Yogi.
It has been a couple more weeks now, how does Rakza Z series stack up in terms of durability?

yogi_bear
08-30-2020, 10:07 PM
Thank you for sharing Yogi.
It has been a couple more weeks now, how does Rakza Z series stack up in terms of durability?
Mine has reduced performance by a small fraction aftee a month but it has good durability.

yogi_bear
08-30-2020, 10:10 PM
How does it compare to Rakza X?
was planning to get Z but u have stated it is more advanced players, and im not advanced myself so would X be a better alternative ? how is X different to Z
Because some people would be challenged by the tackiness and hard sponge of EH but if you can overcome that then go for it. Rakza X is way faster but easier to hit with.

Konrad Bak
08-31-2020, 03:20 AM
I had chance to see how topsheet looks and its great quality but the biggest difference between older esn rubbers and new rakza z is quality of gluing topsheet with sponge.
If yasaka find way to get better sponge
( great tension sponge was pink gewo kr 47,5 but evolution density was special)and
We will have new game changer... The funniest thing is situation when you see which brands technology will have chance to collaborate and get something special but you know how this business work. This is the biggest reason why Butterfly has the best products because there is 3 departments.
First works on sponges, second works on topsheet and third works on gluing.
The same situation is with blades.
One brand makes woven of artificial materials, second brand only works on wood quality and third brand works on handle quality and everything is made in China with Japan management.

Vxneji
09-03-2020, 01:34 PM
Are you sure abt that? online reviews show X as being slightly slower than Z and also much softer..

yoass
09-10-2020, 02:25 PM
I sparred with a player using Rakza Z. He's quite a few levels above me and can devastate me even when playing with a frozen banana and using his off-hand. I'm quite used to getting spin/speed pressure from him above my ability to cope.

He played strongly and confidently, with a very low error rate. Perhaps safer than usual. However, there were three things I found remarkable.

One, FH flicks. Usually, when I serve short backspin to his FH that's an immediate flick kill. Now, there was a high error rate.

Two, counterspinning. I'm used to high speed and insane spin incoming. What i got was high speed, but I had to compensate and open up my angle to clear the net.

Three, slow brush openups on backspin. He does these every now and then, because they're safe and so spinny that they're hard enough to deal with, even at his level. Now, however, I could easily kill them.

I would have expected differently.

yogi_bear
09-11-2020, 05:59 AM
Rakza z is only suitable in Yasaka Ma Lin soft carbon or I can try it in my Rosewood NCT VII as forehand rubber?
Depends on your preference but i did try it in a hard blade lately and still feel good.

ttarc
09-11-2020, 10:00 PM
I sparred with a player using Rakza Z. He's quite a few levels above me and can devastate me even when playing with a frozen banana and using his off-hand. I'm quite used to getting spin/speed pressure from him above my ability to cope.

He played strongly and confidently, with a very low error rate. Perhaps safer than usual. However, there were three things I found remarkable.

One, FH flicks. Usually, when I serve short backspin to his FH that's an immediate flick kill. Now, there was a high error rate.

Two, counterspinning. I'm used to high speed and insane spin incoming. What i got was high speed, but I had to compensate and open up my angle to clear the net.

Three, slow brush openups on backspin. He does these every now and then, because they're safe and so spinny that they're hard enough to deal with, even at his level. Now, however, I could easily kill them.

I would have expected differently.

How long does your sparring partner play with the Z/what has he used before?

After using the Z for around 30 hours (mainly training matches, some drills, some league matches) I too have the impression that my opponents/sparring partners can handle/attack the higher arcing and higher bouncing balls produced with the Z easier than the lower arcing ones from the H3s.

FH flick (kill): Not my strength. So usually I go for placement rather than full power.
Counter loops: Higher arc therefore the ball has to move a longer path and loses more angular momentum/spin.
Spinny openups: Higher arc/throw with higher bounce on the table so these can be easier to kill.

Coming from the H3 I'm currently undecided if I keep the Z or switch back... It's a tradeoff between more safety due to the higher arc and speed (out-of-position shots, farther away from the table) and the loss of control/effectiveness because of the speed/higher arc.
One thing that's for sure so is that the Z works better in humid conditions (better as H3 and my current BH rubber Bluestorm Z2...) and it does not need to be boosted right away. Durability also seems to be quite good at least of the topsheet (sponge seems to have lost a little bit power but that might not be a bad thing).

yoass
09-11-2020, 10:47 PM
How long does your sparring partner play with the Z/what has he used before?

Not long. He's a quick learner and a versatile player, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him adapt and wrench another level of quality out of Z in the next few sessions.

yogi_bear
09-12-2020, 12:18 AM
If you want something near to H3's feel but faster, the EH version is the one to use. I like it way better than the regular version.

Brian Zhao
09-13-2020, 07:51 AM
I hear a lot of comparison of Rakza Z to D09C, but honestly the resemblance isn't as much as people say. The Dignics 09C lets you grab the ball and launch it however you want, the Rakza Z has an obscure feeling with much less of that grab feeling.

Tango K
09-13-2020, 10:12 AM
I struggle a little with it too. I had Fastarc G1 before. The Z is clearly easier with push and flicking very short dead ball (as I don’t have space to go forward But simply lifting the ball off quickly). But I struggle with flicking just short but not too short backspin ball (a typical flick that is) as it doesn’t seem to grip. It goes, ok spin, but the power is no longer there.
In the longer end too it seems harder to spin.

But I figure either mostly because it’s quite harder than G1 and I use it for BH, which is much more sensitive to hardness I guess. Or the lower throw makes me feel the need to arc it a little too much.

Kuba Hajto
09-13-2020, 11:02 AM
I hear a lot of comparison of Rakza Z to D09C, but honestly the resemblance isn't as much as people say. The Dignics 09C lets you grab the ball and launch it however you want, the Rakza Z has an obscure feeling with much less of that grab feeling.

Have you compared Rakz Z or Z Extra Hard to D09c?

yogi_bear
09-13-2020, 12:03 PM
I hear a lot of comparison of Rakza Z to D09C, but honestly the resemblance isn't as much as people say. The Dignics 09C lets you grab the ball and launch it however you want, the Rakza Z has an obscure feeling with much less of that grab feeling.

They are just different rubbers but if you are on atight budget, tje Rakza Z EH is already good enough to use. In fact, it is easier to spin than D09c.

Arkady
09-24-2020, 11:05 AM
I've tested Rakza Z on my FH, with a Ai Fukuhara Pro ZLF blade.

My overall mini-review:

Tackiness: It's indeed semi-tacky, but not as tacky as usual Chinese rubbers like H3. As soon as I opened the package, I placed a ball on the table, pressed the rubber on it and I was able to lift it for a about 15-20cm something that that cannot be done with European rubbers. I repeated the test after two training sessions and all the tackiness was gone!!! I couldn't lift the ball not even for 2 cm!!!

Speed: I made a bounce test comparing it Dignics 05c and found that it's much less bouncy than Dignics. During drills however, it was faster than I expected but DEFINITELY slower that Rakza 7 and other similar European rubbers.
In order to make a powerful spin, you have to make a full body swing rotating your waist and keep a much more closed angle in your bat. Even in that case however, the effort doesn't justify the result, at least for the average intermediate non-professional player.
Blocking was ok during the drills that you are returning "soft" balls so the spinner can keep a steady pace, but you couldn't put pressure on the opponent like you would want during a match.

Spin: Spin is the area where I'm mostly disappointed... Rakza Z is spinier that an average European rubber, but not as spiny as advertised. Lifting underspin balls requires just about the same effort as any ESN rubber, while short serve returns are just as hard, since the rubber is quite spin sensitive, despite it's tackiness....

As a conclusion, I have to say that I was overall disappointed. What you lose with this rubber, far exceed the gains...

yogi_bear
09-24-2020, 11:14 AM
I've tested Rakza Z on my FH, with a Ai Fukuhara Pro ZLF blade.

My overall mini-review:

Tackiness: It's indeed semi-tacky, but not as tacky as usual Chinese rubbers like H3. As soon as I opened the package, I placed a ball on the table, pressed the rubber on it and I was able to lift it for a about 15-20cm something that that cannot be done with European rubbers. I repeated the test after two training sessions and all the tackiness was gone!!! I couldn't lift the ball not even for 2 cm!!!

Speed: I made a bounce test comparing it Dignics 05c and found that it's much less bouncy than Dignics. During drills however, it was faster than I expected but DEFINITELY slower that Rakza 7 and other similar European rubbers.
In order to make a powerful spin, you have to make a full body swing rotating your waist and keep a much more closed angle in your bat. Even in that case however, the effort doesn't justify the result, at least for the average intermediate non-professional player.
Blocking was ok during the drills that you are returning "soft" balls so the spinner can keep a steady pace, but you couldn't put pressure on the opponent like you would want during a match.

Spin: Spin is the area where I'm mostly disappointed... Rakza Z is spinier that an average European rubber, but not as spiny as advertised. Lifting underspin balls requires just about the same effort as any ESN rubber, while short serve returns are just as hard, since the rubber is quite spin sensitive, despite it's tackiness....

As a conclusion, I have to say that I was overall disappointed. What you lose with this rubber, far exceed the gains...

How spinny is spinny for you? I had folks who are hurricane 3 users and still can produce the same spin but a bit faster using the Rakza Z.

ZeroTT
09-24-2020, 12:03 PM
Any word on the durability of Rakza Z?

Because the durability of the other sticky rubber Dignics 09c is really really poor.
Which is a disgrace because of the 80 Euro price.

Tango K
09-24-2020, 01:12 PM
Been with it for 2 months but on the backhand and in limited exposure to the table so can’t say it’s been long, but it’s still working pretty well. (Let say 50 hours total and 15 hours on it). Still bouncy, still tacky, still making drum-like noise, certainly not 100% new any more.

What I can say is that it doesn’t degrade by itself over time much (comparing to the notorious MX-P or boosted H3). But if you hit it hard, I don’t know. Chaps like yogi_bear may tell.

Arkady
09-24-2020, 03:32 PM
How spinny is spinny for you? I had folks who are hurricane 3 users and still can produce the same spin but a bit faster using the Rakza Z.

Let me put it this way:
For me a rubber is spinnier than another one, given the same amount of effort. If a rubber in order to activate it's speed and spin, requires the strokes of Ma Long, then it's not for the average user.

This is exactly the case with Chinese rubbers like H3 you mention: They might be in fact spinier than European ones, but require boosting, impeccable technique, very fast strokes and body rotation, in order to play like that.
But very few non-pro players can utilize them, and that is the reason that they are not so popular among them.

Konrad Bak
09-24-2020, 04:06 PM
Victas vs 402 double extra is the best solution for low budget player.
Btw I know guy from here who buy battle 2 from aliexpress and open dispute with every bullish on every transaction and he gets things for free.
So for him victas wont work but for yall I recommend it.

IB66
09-24-2020, 09:02 PM
Any word on the durability of Rakza Z?

Because the durability of the other sticky rubber Dignics 09c is really really poor.
Which is a disgrace because of the 80 Euro price.

How long did it take for the D09C to degrade? when you say really really poor, I don’t get it, I’ve had 2 sheets for 5 months and it’s still performing well, as I’ve said before, if the D09C is degrading it’s very slowly and less noticeable, at least for me, that’s how it seems.

yogi_bear
09-25-2020, 05:09 AM
Zerott, after a month of usage of 6hrs a week seem to have lost grip by 30%

ZeroTT
09-25-2020, 09:38 AM
My friend bought the D09c august 2 and after 5 or 6 weeks of training he had to buy a new one.
I admit, we trained more then 10 hours a week but still, his t05 on the forehand was in better shape.

The problem was that the main feature of d09c ,grip and stickiness was all gone after this time.

Maybe we expected too much by comparing it to the regular dignics lines durability ( 05,80 and 64) .
Because D09c is not in the same range as the other Dignics rubbers in terms of durability.

Tango K
09-25-2020, 10:21 AM
That’s the nature of tacky rubbers. The tackiness is going away faster than anything else, especially if you don’t protect it.

Tango K
09-25-2020, 10:22 AM
Zerott, after a month of usage of 6hrs a week seem to have lost grip by 30%

Yogi_bear, how is it compared to other rubbers? Can’t equate 6hrs of yours to 6hrs of mine for sure.

zeio
09-25-2020, 10:46 AM
Maybe we expected too much by comparing it to the regular dignics lines durability ( 05,80 and 64) .
Because D09c is not in the same range as the other Dignics rubbers in terms of durability.

I guess this is an example of priming (https://www.verywellmind.com/priming-and-the-psychology-of-memory-4173092). Perhaps that's why they don't release D09c under its own model line (https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22704-Dignics-09c-available-April-1st-2020&p=302953&viewfull=1#post302953).

Butterfly has never advertised longer durability for D09c, only D05, D80 and D64.

https://www.butterfly.co.jp/product/dignics/sheet.html

IB66
09-25-2020, 03:48 PM
I've kept my rubbers well protected, and because i'm reasonably use to tacky rubbers losing their tack, I don't really think much about it when they do. in fact I found that when H8 lost it's tackiness, that's when it started to really perform!!

JustANoob
09-25-2020, 10:35 PM
I've kept my rubbers well protected, and because i'm reasonably use to tacky rubbers losing their tack, I don't really think much about it when they do. in fact I found that when H8 lost it's tackiness, that's when it started to really perform!!

I am kind of confused, how does that rubber feel without tack since I thought that tack was the whole point of a chinese rubber ?

Konrad Bak
09-26-2020, 01:08 AM
less tackiness=less hold= less body work= more speed= the same rotation.

IB66
09-26-2020, 07:52 AM
I am kind of confused, how does that rubber feel without tack since I thought that tack was the whole point of a chinese rubber ?

For me it still felt the same, which is sort of a contradiction!! It’s not an instantaneous loss of tack, gradually over a few weeks or so. If you play 2 or 3 times a week the change isn’t really noticeable. It’s only when you do a tack test, ie picking the ball up with rubber that you see the difference.

Also a rubber like H3 has differing levels of tackiness, depending what version you get!! What I found was that Standard H3 has loads of tack that lasts well, H3 provincial had less tack which decreased slightly over time, H3 Nat blue sponge had slightly less tack again (marginally) but lost slightly more tack over time. These rubbers were all unboosted. The real change in feel, is when the rubbers are boosted!!

i can only comment on H3, as I’ve not used Rakza in any version, it would be interesting to see how users of other rubbers have noticed the loss of tackiness, and whether this is considered as part of a rubbers durability.

yogi_bear
09-26-2020, 08:52 AM
Let me put it this way:
For me a rubber is spinnier than another one, given the same amount of effort. If a rubber in order to activate it's speed and spin, requires the strokes of Ma Long, then it's not for the average user.

This is exactly the case with Chinese rubbers like H3 you mention: They might be in fact spinier than European ones, but require boosting, impeccable technique, very fast strokes and body rotation, in order to play like that.
But very few non-pro players can utilize them, and that is the reason that they are not so popular among them.

I do not think you got my point. The rakza z when people who used h3 could produce spin in the samw level more or less so and required lesser effort due to the rakza z being faster. The eh version is the one that can be as spinny as h3.

Arkady
09-26-2020, 12:06 PM
I do not think you got my point. The rakza z when people who used h3 could produce spin in the samw level more or less so and required lesser effort due to the rakza z being faster. The eh version is the one that can be as spinny as h3.

What you're saying, actually proves my point:
For the average club player Rakza Z EH might feel the same or even spinier than H3 (while it's obvious that H3 is way spinier), because they don't have the appropriate technique and body mechanics
But if you ask a pro player to test, he will definitely tell you that H3 is way spinier

yogi_bear
09-26-2020, 01:20 PM
What you're saying, actually proves my point:
For the average club player Rakza Z EH might feel the same or even spinier than H3 (while it's obvious that H3 is way spinier), because they don't have the appropriate technique and body mechanics
But if you ask a pro player to test, he will definitely tell you that H3 is way spinier

You still do not get my point. You said that it is not as spinny as advertised. I refuted your claim by saying tha good players in my club who use h3 can also produce the same level of spin especially with eh version. That alone refutes your claim. Also, sure a pro will tell you h3 is spinnier and your point is? Spin is not everything, otherwise non-cnt members are using h3 rubbers too. Also, not all players have pro level so the maximum potential in using a rubber is pointless sincw non-pro players are more numerous than pro or elite players.

Konrad Bak
09-26-2020, 01:30 PM
Arkady you act tough but it proves my point too. People who talks too much about spin they are the same that didnt even reach the top level...

yogi_bear
09-26-2020, 01:45 PM
There are lots of players who want very spinny balls but do not want to place as much effort as when using h3. This is the reason there are other rubbers that can be a spinny but a bit faster and much easier to use. A lot of european rubbers are not as vicious as H3 overall especially on spin but can be better for other users due to being more user friendly. Also, the pro's h3 are different especially with the factory tuners being used so it is also point if we will compare what pros use.

Arkady
09-26-2020, 02:56 PM
You still do not get my point. You said that it is not as spinny as advertised. I refuted your claim by saying tha good players in my club who use h3 can also produce the same level of spin especially with eh version. That alone refutes your claim. Also, sure a pro will tell you h3 is spinnier and your point is? Spin is not everything, otherwise non-cnt members are using h3 rubbers too. Also, not all players have pro level so the maximum potential in using a rubber is pointless sincw non-pro players are more numerous than pro or elite players.

I don't think that your statements refute mine or my statements refute yours.
In my club there are players who play in the Greek Pro A2 league and at the National 1 in France.
Actually one of them uses Fukuhara blade as well (the blade I use) So I gave them my racket to tell me an opinion about Rakza Z.
They both concluded that is not something extraordinary in terms of spin. Does that refute your claims or your club players? Of course not
When it comes to table tennis equipment, different players have different perceptions and different opinions. Otherwise we all would use the same gear.


Arkady you act tough but it proves my point too. People who talks too much about spin they are the same that didnt even reach the top level...
What do you mean "act tough"? I'm just stating my opinion and my experience. You can either take it or leave it. As simple as that.
Surerly I'm not a "top level" player, but I'm well above your average recreational player.


There are lots of players who want very spinny balls but do not want to place as much effort as when using h3. This is the reason there are other rubbers that can be a spinny but a bit faster and much easier to use. A lot of european rubbers are not as vicious as H3 overall especially on spin but can be better for other users due to being more user friendly. Also, the pro's h3 are different especially with the factory tuners being used so it is also point if we will compare what pros use.

Agree 100% on that. H3 is not a rubber for just anybody as very few can utilize it. European rubbers are more suited for the vast majority of players because they are faster.

darkmoor1
09-27-2020, 12:35 AM
less tackiness=less hold= less body work= more speed= the same rotation.

Frankly, rotation just cannot be the same in such case, unless one would, perhaps, have only certain lower-impact strokes on mind.

If H8 is the rubber in question, then I assume it has began to perform in a similar way as my old Jupiter 2 that lost its tackiness almost completely but somehow worked extremely well as an Euro/Japanese looping style rubber, with surprisingly high amount of spin and control. However, when it was still pretty tacky, successful Chinese loops with it would bear definitely more spin.

IB66
09-27-2020, 08:39 AM
Frankly, rotation just cannot be the same in such case, unless one would, perhaps, have only certain lower-impact strokes on mind.

If H8 is the rubber in question, then I assume it has began to perform in a similar way as my old Jupiter 2 that lost its tackiness almost completely but somehow worked extremely well as an Euro/Japanese looping style rubber, with surprisingly high amount of spin and control. However, when it was still pretty tacky, successful Chinese loops with it would bear definitely more spin.

What I found was that the playing / training partners I play with, started to make comments like ‘really struggling to block these loops’ ‘ loads of spin’ this started to happen 3 - 4 weeks after I started to use the rubber, after the tack had worn off compared to new. I think the shots were faster with the same or maybe slightly more spin. Loops were low over the net with rapid dip at the end and loads of kick. Typical Chinese shape ball flight (although my technique isn’t, far from it !!!) this is another factor why they were having fun returning the loops!!!
The main thing is to regularly ask regular playing partners how your shots are performing, spin / speed etc as they are receiving the balls and are better positioned to know if the rubber is performing better / worse as time goes on.

nymose
10-07-2020, 11:16 AM
I've tried Golden Tango PS now, and it seems like a good upgrade from cj8000. Similar feel, throw angle and spin. Significantly more bounce when hitting harder. But that's what I expected.
Though it seems slightly more dificult to lift underspin. Not sure though.
If Rakza is Z is better at that, then what would I loose? What's GTPS better at?

Sendt fra min SM-A202F med Tapatalk

yogi_bear
10-08-2020, 01:19 AM
I've tried Golden Tango PS now, and it seems like a good upgrade from cj8000. Similar feel, throw angle and spin. Significantly more bounce when hitting harder. But that's what I expected.
Though it seems slightly more dificult to lift underspin. Not sure though.
If Rakza is Z is better at that, then what would I loose? What's GTPS better at?

Sendt fra min SM-A202F med Tapatalk

There is a certain feel that I like with the Z series especially with the extra hard version that i cannot describe compared to the golden tango.

nymose
10-08-2020, 01:21 AM
There is a certain feel that I like with the Z series especially with the extra hard version that i cannot describe compared to the golden tango.Hmm, interesting. Obviously makes me curious to try haha.

Sendt fra min SM-A202F med Tapatalk

sampletext
10-08-2020, 11:09 PM
There is a certain feel that I like with the Z series especially with the extra hard version that i cannot describe compared to the golden tango.
Is this a good feel? does this make the z series better then golden tango/GTPS?

Vxneji
02-01-2021, 11:28 AM
any updates on the durability of the rubber ?

RIPPER
02-13-2021, 12:53 AM
intersting stuff yogi thanks for the review! will hopefully be able to try rakza z soon, i definitely think the rakza series is a good option, i have used rakza 7, 9 and x and like them all, all offering something different

yogi_bear
02-13-2021, 03:50 AM
intersting stuff yogi thanks for the review! will hopefully be able to try rakza z soon, i definitely think the rakza series is a good option, i have used rakza 7, 9 and x and like them all, all offering something different
I like the X version more as a bh rubber.

IB66
02-13-2021, 07:42 AM
Having now tried Rakza Z, GT, GTPS, (un-boosted), various H3 N’s, various Battle 2’s (boosted & un-boosted) D09C, H8 (un-boosted).
personally, I think that Rakza Z feels the best, (so far!!) it has good tackiness, good speed, not too much catapult effect and great spin.
boosted Chinese rubbers feel better than their un-boosted brothers, but Rakza Z still felt better, for my preference.
GT is less bouncy than the GTPS version, but I liked the GT over the PS version, the feel of the additional catapult from the PS just didn’t feel right for me.
So GT, D09C & Rakza Z are classed as ‘Hybrid’ rubbers, again for myself the Rakza Z feels better!!
When I 1st tried D09C, I really liked it, (in fact I like and can play with all the rubbers above!!) but it wasn’t what I had hoped it might be!! Personal expectations!!! Ha!!
Rakza Z is sort of what I was hoping D09C would be like!!! But was still a surprise, but a nice surprise!!

If stranded with a table, robot, balls etc and a choice of 2 rubbers ???

Tacky type rubbers - I’d choose Rakza Z ( must try the Extra Hard version!! Bluegrip C1/C2, omega China Ying/Guang)
grippy type rubbers - R48

TTHopeful
02-13-2021, 12:45 PM
Having now tried Rakza Z, GT, GTPS, (un-boosted), various H3 N’s, various Battle 2’s (boosted & un-boosted) D09C, H8 (un-boosted).
personally, I think that Rakza Z feels the best, (so far!!) it has good tackiness, good speed, not too much catapult effect and great spin.
boosted Chinese rubbers feel better than their un-boosted brothers, but Rakza Z still felt better, for my preference.
GT is less bouncy than the GTPS version, but I liked the GT over the PS version, the feel of the additional catapult from the PS just didn’t feel right for me.
So GT, D09C & Rakza Z are classed as ‘Hybrid’ rubbers, again for myself the Rakza Z feels better!!
When I 1st tried D09C, I really liked it, (in fact I like and can play with all the rubbers above!!) but it wasn’t what I had hoped it might be!! Personal expectations!!! Ha!!
Rakza Z is sort of what I was hoping D09C would be like!!! But was still a surprise, but a nice surprise!!

If stranded with a table, robot, balls etc and a choice of 2 rubbers ???

Tacky type rubbers - I’d choose Rakza Z ( must try the Extra Hard version!! Bluegrip C1/C2, omega China Ying/Guang)
grippy type rubbers - R48
Rakza Z over 09C?

What boost did you use?

IB66
02-13-2021, 06:35 PM
Rakza Z over 09C?

What boost did you use?
When I’ve boosted H3Neo and Battle 2 (Chinese rubbers only) etc I have used Falco Long Term, and Seamoon. Both are good, maybe Seamoon has stronger results but you have to boost more often.

Personally I prefer Rakza Z over D09C, not necessarily because it’s a better rubber, I just like it more than I like D09C, I find Rakza Z easier to use.
Additionally, for the money you pay out, does paying almost twice as much for a sheet of D09C give you twice the performance?? No way.

If you swapped the names over on the sheets, then would I pay €80 for a sheet of Butterfly Rakza Z ?

Probably, because I like how Rakza Z plays and feels!! Would I get twice the performance?? No way!!
Mind you I paid out for D09C because I had to try it out!!!!

for many, price point is very important, based on price alone my view is D09C would score 6/10,
Rakza Z 9.5/10
if you swapped price points, then you could swap the above scores as well !!!!

Kuba Hajto
02-13-2021, 08:12 PM
When I’ve boosted H3Neo and Battle 2 (Chinese rubbers only) etc I have used Falco Long Term, and Seamoon. Both are good, maybe Seamoon has stronger results but you have to boost more often.

Personally I prefer Rakza Z over D09C, not necessarily because it’s a better rubber, I just like it more than I like D09C, I find Rakza Z easier to use.
Additionally, for the money you pay out, does paying almost twice as much for a sheet of D09C give you twice the performance?? No way.

If you swapped the names over on the sheets, then would I pay €80 for a sheet of Butterfly Rakza Z ?

Probably, because I like how Rakza Z plays and feels!! Would I get twice the performance?? No way!!
Mind you I paid out for D09C because I had to try it out!!!!

for many, price point is very important, based on price alone my view is D09C would score 6/10,
Rakza Z 9.5/10
if you swapped price points, then you could swap the above scores as well !!!!

Non EH Z is much softer than D09C though. I wonder if you will like the EH version.

IB66
02-13-2021, 08:42 PM
Non EH Z is much softer than D09C though. I wonder if you will like the EH version.
Not sure!! I’ll end up giving it a go one day!! If EH Z is softer then it may well suit the sort of feel I like, Yogi reckons it a couple of notches faster than the std Z, this could be the attribute that may not suit me as well!!

Kuba Hajto
02-13-2021, 08:46 PM
Not sure!! I’ll end up giving it a go one day!! If EH Z is softer then it may well suit the sort of feel I like, Yogi reckons it a couple of notches faster than the std Z, this could be the attribute that may not suit me as well!!

what I meant is that the normal Z (non EH) is softer than D09C. The extra H is much closer to D09C.

EDIT 09C should be close to Vega China or Yasaka Extra Hard Z. There is this chart, created by haggisv https://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/sponge-hardness-table/. Closest rubber from butterfly measured is T05H which butterfly claims to be 43 degrees of whatever they use, which clocks at 56 degrees of haggisv durometer. Vega China Scores 59 and it is suppose to be very close to Rakza Z EH.

yogi_bear
02-14-2021, 12:52 AM
The EH version still felt a tad softer than D09c probably because aside from the sponge, the D09c topsheet also felt harder.

IB66
02-14-2021, 11:04 AM
As Yogi mentioned the top sheet is generally forgotten, this is at least as important as sponge hardness for the overall ‘feel’ of the rubber (sponge + top sheet).

IB66
02-14-2021, 11:50 AM
what I meant is that the normal Z (non EH) is softer than D09C. The extra H is much closer to D09C.

EDIT 09C should be close to Vega China or Yasaka Extra Hard Z. There is this chart, created by haggisv https://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/sponge-hardness-table/. Closest rubber from butterfly measured is T05H which butterfly claims to be 43 degrees of whatever they use, which clocks at 56 degrees of haggisv durometer. Vega China Scores 59 and it is suppose to be very close to Rakza Z EH.
Just had a quick look through the chart, very interesting !! A lot of the readings for BTY rubbers are very close or the same as their publicised sponge hardnesses, so sponge hardness = top sheet hardness. ( not always the case, but this sort of jumped out at me!) So are BTY reading sponge and rubber for their sponge hardness?? Otherwise they seem to be matching top sheet hardness and sponge hardness.
it would be great to have a column listing the manufacturers sponge hardnesses to compare against the readings taken for the whole rubber. So you can get an idea of how hard the top sheet is. Mind you that’s a lot of info to collect!! And some manufacturers don’t list sponge hardnesses!!
Very good chart though!!

Kuba Hajto
02-14-2021, 12:42 PM
As Yogi mentioned the top sheet is generally forgotten, this is at least as important as sponge hardness for the overall ‘feel’ of the rubber (sponge + top sheet).
I think topsheet is more important to the feel than the sponge.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/iLchZfxS_sM?autohide=1&controls=1&showinfo=0
This guy made a nice video. I agree with him on most of the statements.

GrayGhost
02-15-2021, 12:09 AM
For anyone curious about this rubber now is the time to try! tt11 just put these on weekly special for $33/sheet!

Kuba Hajto
02-15-2021, 08:12 AM
For anyone curious about this rubber now is the time to try! tt11 just put these on weekly special for $33/sheet!
For me it shows 40$ a sheet.

Lazer
02-15-2021, 08:35 AM
I think topsheet is more important to the feel than the sponge
...
This guy made a nice video. I agree with him on most of the statements.
It would have been a lot more credible if it wasn't XIOM sponsored....

Cheers
L-zr

Kuba Hajto
02-15-2021, 09:01 AM
It would have been a lot more credible if it wasn't XIOM sponsored....

Cheers
L-zr
Just apply the knowledge to any other rubber. You don't have to pick Xiom rubbers if you don't want to.

IB66
02-15-2021, 08:28 PM
For me it shows 40$ a sheet.
€29 for me.

Kuba Hajto
02-15-2021, 08:37 PM
€29 for me.
Is it only Rakza Z or Extra Hard too?

IB66
02-15-2021, 09:52 PM
Is it only Rakza Z or Extra Hard too?
Only Rakza Z,
it’s typical, 2 weeks ago I bought an acoustic inner and 2 sheets Rakza Z.
last week the acoustic inner was on special! €40 off, now this week it’s Rakza Z about €9 off per sheet
I could have saved about €60!!!!!

Tango K
02-16-2021, 02:00 PM
Only Rakza Z,
it’s typical, 2 weeks ago I bought an acoustic inner and 2 sheets Rakza Z.
last week the acoustic inner was on special! €40 off, now this week it’s Rakza Z about €9 off per sheet
I could have saved about €60!!!!!
Did you buy it from tt11? Was everything still going on well? Since new year I’ve no idea how those Euro things work.

GrayGhost
02-16-2021, 03:37 PM
I bought from them last month and the order came to the US in 5 days. I just placed another order on Sunday and is scheduled to arrive on Friday.

IB66
02-16-2021, 07:45 PM
Did you buy it from tt11? Was everything still going on well? Since new year I’ve no idea how those Euro things work.
Yeah TT11, the acoustic inner was ordered on a Monday, I asked for the lightest one they had in stock, 88gr arrived on Thursday, pretty good service!!
The week before I ordered 2 sheets of Rakza Z, 1 sheet of Acuda blue P2 & 1 sheet of Acuda S2 on the Sunday it arrived on Tuesday!! Even better service!!.
Every order I’ve placed from TT11 has arrived within 5 days!! Orders always correct as well.

yogi_bear
02-17-2021, 01:15 AM
€29 for me.
40usd is really cheap!! SRP in my area is about 50usd each.

Jim
02-19-2021, 11:14 AM
Joining in for the chorus of the review and for the Rakza Z. Had my first session with it yesterday, Think it will make good transition from the chinese tacky stuff i had earlier. Considering getting a piece for backhand aswell. Going full Yasaka mode with the Falck W7. :)