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View Full Version : Need help Fh topspin aginast underspin how to improve?



MaTsky92
06-30-2020, 02:06 PM
Hi guys

Can u recommend for me good video to improve my fh tospin?

Anyone of you see any mistakes i do atm ?
I am open to any advice :)

link below

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCD4wqrnOV0
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Lula
06-30-2020, 03:07 PM
Try to keep the stroke more explosive and more compact. Stop earlier with arm and body.

UpSideDownCarl
07-01-2020, 02:19 AM
What Lula said. And then, practice, practice, practice practice practice. After doing that drill with bucket after bucket, session after session, after a few hundred thousand repetitions, you will be pretty solid with it.

The more repetitions you do, the more you repeat it, the faster you will get better. Visualizing a good stroke that is in line with your technique level can help as well.

But Lula is absolutely right. The swing is too exaggerated and needs to be more compact. My guess is that looking at how guys like Ma Long and Zhang Jike hit forehands has given you an idea of an exaggerated forehand. Copying those guys for many mid-level players can be a big mistake. They have such good technique that they can swing that big without wasted effort and still reset and be ready for the next ball.

Because your stroke is so big, there is a lot of wasted effort and your reset is very very slow. Your stroke should not be so big that there is no way for you to make a play on the ball when it comes back. And the guy feeding you is waiting for you to reset before he sends the next ball. In a match your opponent will not wait for you to be set before he hits the ball past you.

SkySowers
07-01-2020, 01:39 PM
Shortening your strokes would help generate more power from your forearm. Also, when the ball is bouncing low, with a heavy under spin, it's good to practice a soft forehand loop, focusing on the trajectory of the shot.

Brs
07-01-2020, 03:33 PM
Your form is beautiful actually, it's perfect. You are just trying way too hard. So much effort makes you tense so you don't get much speed, and it also messes up your timing.

Watch this tiny Korean girl. If she can fh loop backspin with her little body, you can relax and take nice easy swings. Breathe out when you swing, relax.

https://youtu.be/q1xGkXtqfMY

sampletext
07-01-2020, 04:15 PM
your using your arm too much and your left knee is bending/turning way to much. You aren't watching the ball, your just swinging your arm back when the ball is served. You should watch the ball first then use your hips to guid your hand back. Also don't have your feet too horizontal (meaning put your left foot infront of your right foot more).

Ilia Minkin
07-01-2020, 05:02 PM
I agree with Brs, it is a very good stroke. I wish I could hit forehands like that in a match situation.

vvk1
07-01-2020, 05:44 PM
I've recently stumbled on a YT channel full of Kim Taek Soo's coaching videos with English captions and perhaps you might find some of videos there useful. For example:

Key Points to Improve Forehand Loop Drive in table tennis| Coach Kim Taek Soo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW_z9x9AEgQ

WHY My Forehand is so Weak? | Lesson with Coach KIM TEAK SOO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdA9xK_vmYQ

KTS basically explains how to do what Lula mentioned in earlier in this thread.

Der_Echte
07-01-2020, 06:09 PM
Hi Matt,

I took one look at your vid vs underspin. Before I get into any analysis, you have three basic topspin shots and a couple of flat hit options vs this ball. What kind of shot you decide to play will depend on the incoming ball and your ability to get there to give yourself options.

In this simple training situation, the ball is pretty much coming to your FH prime zone and you have every option available to you.

Before I can get into what you are doing and what I think you are trying to do, you need an understanding of your options and to basically perform them.

Your topspin options...

- Power Loop (fast topspin) You open the blade face only a little more, make very solid contact a little off center (above) axis of ball, drive through the ball with only a little catch and throw feeling... swing is very much forward. result is a fast ball with good spin. This requires an explosive stroke and firm impact. You are tightening very firm immediately at impact. This can be a point ending shot or get you a weak return to kill... or a fast block to put you under pressure or lose the point.

- Slow Loop (heavy topspin) You squat down with legs and hips... get top of hips even with or even below top of table, explode UPWARDS... more upwards vs heavier underspin... less upwards vs weaker underspin... stay loose throughout the stroke and impact... firm a little at impact, not a lot. Open blade face.. more vs heavier underspin. Much brush contact, very little solid contact with ball. This can be very devastating... timing of ball is so slow it wrecks timing of many opponents, especially those who like to play fast all the time and have trained only vs fast balls.

Medium Loop - very versitile... you are doing something in between the two above... you are going 50/50 on solid and brush impact. You do not need a full stroke or super fast bat speed. Use medium grip pressure at impact. Open blade a little, balance between forward stroke and lifting stroke. This is your basic pressure shot that is safe.

Fast Hit - this is a shot with almost no topspin, but it is very fast and a "wierd" ball for many to handle. You open blade face, swing forward, impact ball on center of axis, finish slightly higher against stronger underspin, more forward vs weaker underspin. FIRM grip immediately at impact.

Medium Hit - like above, but keep grip loose and maybe lift a tiny more... pretty much same stroke, but impact grip is loose. You are killing spin and sending a slower, but still kind of fast ball with no spin... easier for you to control placement.

Now you understand your options... what were you trying to do?

From my quick look at the vid, your result was a slow-ish ball and it didn't look like it was very loaded with spin. Your feet position were too much BH oriented... not an open stance at all. Make your right foot AT LEAST another 15cm if not 30 cm more to the rear... later even more if you want more FH power and use of hips. You swung mostly forward and tried to fine brush the ball... very little solid impact. I cannot tell your grip in a vid, but maybe look for clues.

If you are trying to make a fast loop... OPEN YOUR STANCE, open blade some more, swing forward, MAKE MORE SOLID IMPACT - not a ton more, but more. Impact ball a little above center behind the ball. Try to let ball come up, but not above top of bounce. Closer you impact ball to bounce, the less you need to adjust bat angle.

If you want a medium loop... OPEN YOUR STANCE, swing less strong power, use 50/50 for amount of brush/solid impact (you will still need to impact ball more solid than in your vid) use 50/50 on forward/upward stroke, do not death grip the bat at impact

If you want a slow, heavy loop... OPEN YOUR STANCE MORE, get down, swing upwards, fine brush the ball like you are doing in the vid, swing almost straight up vs heavy underspin, a little more forward vs weak underspin, keep grip pretty much loose even at impact... firm it up later when you get timing down.

If you want a fast hit... do like the power loop, but strike behind ball at center of axis.

If you want a medium hit... do like medium loop, but strike behind ball center of axis and keep grip loose.


THERE. You now have your available options, how to basically do them... and a quick analysis of what you were actually doing compared to what it looked like you were trying to do.

That will be a $150 USD invoice payable by credit card... that would be... if I was actually a working pro coach in a club... which I am not. Do not pay, I offer the analysis and advice freely. That is why I would never cut it as a pro coach. I have a natural tendency to help people for free too much... and it pisses of the coaches in the clubs I play in.

Der_Echte
07-02-2020, 06:40 AM
On a different note, what some members have already said about you looking like you trying too hard... that is you tightening up the back of your shoulder... then you have to use just shoulder and arm to make the shot... you reduce power and consistency that way.

You will eventually learn all the whip mechanic stuff we try to frequently discuss on the forums. Stay loose and learn the sequence of muscle explosions, learn how to generate kinetic energy, how to amplfy it along the way and how to deliver it to the ball.

longrange
07-02-2020, 07:21 AM
Frankly, it's pretty decent, #8 is very good. No need to shorten your stroke, of course, it's utter nonsense. Only a bit thicker contact to impart more power. If you can open up like #8 against any underspin (in fh's ⅔ of the table) in a match play, you are totally fine. Look at the ball, a bit more fh-oriented stance, bit thicker contact and practice.
Thanks for sharing ((: