Rubber quality

Since you are training with a trainer, ask him. Don't listen to fellow EJs. If something feels good to you no reason to change.

Yeah. Also, commercial H3 is not really a bad rubber. If you boost it, it can be pretty darn good.

Which Xiom rubber are you using?

Why does your profile say you are using TG3 and Rakza 7?

Don't get your mind too much boggled with that. I've use rubbers with sponge in thicknesses between 1.9 and 2.3. Ask your coach. I hadn't had issues with adapting to sponges in that range, and if you are coached you should be just fine.

Understanding sponge thickness is hard. The thicker the sponge the bigger the potential but harder to activate. Although other forum members might explain it better. If you are not training regularly take something thinner. If you are training and can stroke with consistent power and good contact you might as well go for 2.1 (2.3mm is only sponge I had issues compressing and had to adjust longer and wouldn't really recommend) :/

Vega X is good rubber. I wouldn't call it high end, but it is damn good. When it comes to replacing your Hurricane, consider rubbers Vega China, Jupiter 2 and Battle 2. Although that last one I find hard to break in without booster. Vega China lasted longest for me, but it is very hard. Jupiter 2 had nice initial factory boost, but it lasts rather short (~100hrs-120hrs)

Hurricane 3 is a great hard rubber (maybe you are playing with H3Neo which is softer?), don't know about Xiomi Intro, but I am sure it is good enough for a couple first years of your training. It's better to play with cheaper rubbers and change them more often then to play with a dead high-end rubbers.

About sponge thickness -general rule of thumb -if you are an attacker, you should go for thicker, if more allrounder -thinner.

Just curious, how did you ruin your previous rubbers?

Николай Петров said:

Hello guys I want to ask I am beginner to intermediate player I am playing from one year with a trainer and I am playing with all round blade that I wont be changing anytime soon for now but every player in my club says to buy better quality rubbers like butterfly or hurricane provinial blue sponge

Click to expand...

I would bet that any player with good technique can produce better quality shots (faster/more spin/better placement) with an unboosted, commercial H3 and a Xiom Vega Intro than the players telling you to buy new/more expensive rubbers. Of course if your rubbers are worn out they should be replaced (ball's slipping off the rubber, generated arc is too different from fresh rubber etc.) so you don't adapt to dead, antispin-like rubbers.

Николай Петров said:

I don’t want rubber or blade helping me too much for learning correct strokes for now and correct technique but everyone says that cheap rubbers just don’t make quality shots so I am confused + I don’t know if I will be able to use the full potential of these expensive rubbers.

Click to expand...

That's exactly the point. In general there are just two limiting cases:
1. The physical limits of a certain rubber or rubber/blade combination that depend only on their construction/composition. Oversimplified both rubber and blade absorb/waste, store and release a certain amount of energy (efficiency) put into them in different ways (how much delayed, how efficient on lower or full power strokes and so on). Each combination is (slightly) different and feeling different. Stiffer vs. softer blade with rubbers having harder or softer sponges, grippier topsheets, thinner/thicker topsheets/sponges, different pimple structures etc. But that's just the physical limit not (necessarily) the limit a player can reach.
2. The limits of a player i.e. the maximum amount of speed/spin a player can generate that depend on the players biophysical limits/abilities and not the equipment.

Everything else is more or less just personal preference and technique/level of ability.

In short: If your rubbers are worn out replace them. Maybe switch from Vega Intro to Vega Pro/Vega X on your backhand (ask your coach and don't listen too much on your club mates) and continue to practice. TT is practice, practice and even more practice.

Your concerns are totally legitimate. Too fast equipment can hinder your progress in developing proper technique and creating confidence to hit the ball with power. Too slow equipment will make you hit the ball harder, activating more of your body power into the shot (if you’re doing it properly). People don’t miss the table because their equipment was too slow, but they often miss the table if their stuff is too fast. The quality of speed and spin has exactly nothing to do with the price and everything to do with how you use the equipment.

You’re doing right by sticking with the blade. Most of the feeling on your shots comes from the blade. I suggest you get another of the same blade so you can use one as your main and one as a tester for different rubber, if you wanna try different rubber.

Pro tip: if somebody in your club is an equipment junkie, likely they have a billion old rubbers. Ask to try some out on your backup. If someone is trying to get you to try out their rubber, ask to borrow one of theirs. That should either get you a rubber to try out, or quiet them up about it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Николай Петров said:

These were my first rubbers bur I ruined them so I changed to hurricane 3 and xiomi vega intro one of the cheapest rubbers I guess when it’s time ti change i might change to a better one maybe xiom vega x

Click to expand...

Hi,

My first question is how you took the decision for your first setup?
Was it your own choice, based on "read and/or heard", or was it a coach advise?
Is your recent setup on your coach advice?
Is your coach playing with a similar chinese style setup?

The reason I ask these questions is that here very few players use chinese style setups.

Nothing against the chinese style and equipment, its just a little bit strange here.

The second question is how your coach and you have decided to use chinese style FHq paired with euro BH?
How you and/or your coach decided just from the beginning that you really need different wing rubbers?
Have you ever tried same rubbers on both sides, either chinese/europian style?

Advice would come after the answers.

Just a few notes.

Thickness of rubber. Someone who makes more direct contact and drives the ball will have more control with thinner rubber. In that scenario thinner rubber will also be faster. Because the sponge provides cushioning/dampening of impact so rubber with a thinner sponge provides less dampening/cushioning.

Thicker rubber: If you make more direct contact and drive the ball more, thicker rubber is slower and harder to control.

Thicker rubber is good for someone who makes tangential contact (brush or spin contact) and does not hit the ball directly. When this is the case you can let the ball sink further into the sponge without hitting the wood and get the topsheet to wrap around the ball more and grab the ball harder. This also gets the topsheet to stretch and distort as the sponge compresses and your stroke swipes past the ball tangentially. Then when the sponge rebounds and the topsheet returns to its normal shape, this adds to the spin that the tangential contact puts on the ball.

What I just described could be called "mechanical spin". When you do all this, thicker sponge provides more spin and the extra spin provides more control on topspin shots because the topspin causes the ball to arc towards the table. All this also allows you to swing faster and harder to generate that spin. Which is most likely why people get confused and say thicker sponge is faster. it is not. But if you know how to use the thicker sponge, if you have decent level spin technique, thicker sponge allows you to swing harder and direct that power into spin and speed. So you can hit the ball faster and with more spin if your technique is well developed enough.

I would also say, if your goal is to develop higher level technique thicker sponge often makes that more possible because thinner sponge encourages hitting more directly and thicker sponge makes it easier to learn how to spin the ball. Werner Schlager has said that, players developing a looping game should only use Max thickness. I agree with that for people who really do want to develop high level topspin games. But it is not the only way to go about things.

When someone is at a high enough level they can still do all I described with a thinner sponge. When someone is at a lower level, thinner sponge is easier to control because thicker sponge requires you to do a lot right to get the benefits from it. And when you hit directly with thicker sponge, it is harder to control and slower. When you do everything right and spin the ball well, thicker sponge makes it so you can use spin to control the ball.

In the end, you can get to the same place developing your technique regardless of whether you go with thinner sponge or thicker sponge. But if thicker sponge does work for you, there is no need to question it.

Langel: aren't hard tacky rubbers like H3 hard to use on BH? Isn't that why Ma Long and a lot of other CNT players use a version of H3 with a soft sponge on BH?

I do not recommend a normal hard tacky rubber for BH.

When using spring sponge type rubbers, if they are not too hard, using the same rubber on both wings, or using the same rubber with a very slightly softer sponge for BH makes sense because the BH stroke is not as big as the FH stroke so it is harder to utilize the potential of the harder sponges that are becoming more popular with the 40+ Poly ball. But is someone has a massively powerful BH, then the hardness may not matter. But for most people, like Ma Long, you want at least a slightly softer sponge on BH. Although, I would agree, when possible, if the rubbers are not too different, for a developing player, that is good.

UpSideDownCarl said:

Langel: aren't hard tacky rubbers like H3 hard to use on BH? Isn't that why Ma Long and a lot of other CNT players use a version of H3 with a soft sponge on BH?

I do not recommend a normal hard tacky rubber for BH.

When using spring sponge type rubbers, if they are not too hard, using the same rubber on both wings, or using the same rubber with a very slightly softer sponge for BH makes sense because the BH stroke is not as big as the FH stroke so it is harder to utilize the potential of the harder sponges that are becoming more popular with the 40+ Poly ball. But is someone has a massively powerful BH, then the hardness may not matter. But for most people, like Ma Long, you want at least a slightly softer sponge on BH. Although, I would agree, when possible, if the rubbers are not too different, for a developing player, that is good.

Click to expand...

Of course.
I've said nothing about using H3 on BH.

langel said:

Of course.
I've said nothing about using H3 on BH.

Click to expand...

Okay. Just wanted to clarify since it sounds like he wants to use hard tacky rubber on FH. And, often, in that scenario, using just any spring sponge/Euro/Japanese type rubber is fine. So, if the FH rubber is hard, tacky rubber, then the BH can be something different.

Whereas, when using softer rubbers, I definitely agree that, using the same or almost the same rubber (maybe slightly softer for BH) is usually ideal for a developing player who does not yet know how each wing has specialized needs.

UpSideDownCarl said:

Okay. Just wanted to clarify since it sounds like he wants to use hard tacky rubber on FH. And, often, in that scenario, using just any spring sponge/Euro/Japanese type rubber is fine. So, if the FH rubber is hard, tacky rubber, then the BH can be something different.

Whereas, when using softer rubbers, I definitely agree that, using the same or almost the same rubber (maybe slightly softer for BH) is usually ideal for a developing player who does not yet know how each wing has specialized needs.

Click to expand...

As you see, there are a lot of "if" and "provided that" in the matter.

Thats why I asked some questions to clarify the basis of the problem.
I could say something about beginner-to-developing player roadmap advices as I see them, but I said that I prefer to see the answers first.

Николай Петров said:

...but every player in my club says to buy better quality rubbers like butterfly or hurricane provinial blue sponge and now I am playing with normal hurricane 3 and xiom cheap rubber on backhand...

Click to expand...

Show this to them.

---

The blade and rubbers you have there are fine for beginners. Practically any 5-ply all-wood blades from Yasaka and Stiga are good for penhold when paired with Chinese tacky rubbers. Pick a weight between 80-85g depending on your BH rubber and your level.

Yasaka Sweden Classic is the equivalent of Stiga Allround Classic. After that, the path of upgrade from flexible to stiff could look something like this:
Offensive Classic -> Yasaka Extra -> Yasaka Extra Offensive -> Rosewood V