The hard rubbers, a new trend in tennis table?

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Hello,

I am wondering what is all about with this new trend generated by almost all tennis table equipment vendors to bring hard rubbers to the market.
Examples: MX-P 50, Tenergy 05 Hard, Dignics 09c, Rasanter R53, etc.
Is this a reaction to the new plastic ball? What are the benefits of using these hard rubbers with the new plastic ball?
Are we witnessing the creation of a new style of play?
If this is just a reaction to the Chinese rubbers (Hurricane) why the vendors are doing it right now?

Is this just a marketing stuff? Since a very hard rubber feels dead on a lot of blades and you need to put a lot of power in your stroke to generate the spin which is quite difficult for an amateur because he does not have the proper technique/ physical training/stamina/agility, how all these vendors think that the vast majority of the players will use these hard rubbers?

Indirectly they forces you to use a booster on these rubbers to get a spring/tensor effect but the booster is illegal.



BR
 
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What are the benefits of using these hard rubbers with the new plastic ball?

Regaining spin. But it is not for everyone, as you very correctly observed below.

If this is just a reaction to the Chinese rubbers (Hurricane) why the vendors are doing it right now?

You should differebtiate here.
A dignics09C or the new Donic hybrid rubbers could be seen as a reaction, with their tacky "Chinese-style" surface, to compete better in Asian markets.
MX-P Hard, GEWO Nexxus Hard, andro Rasanter R53 are just harder (and in the case of R53) optimized Tensor rubbers.

how all these vendors think that the vast majority of the players will use these hard rubbers?

Consider it an offer for those who need it and can bring the potential to life. Everyone else can still buy the softer versions of the Tensor rubbers, or simply stay away from the hybrids like they stayed away from Hurricane and co. for years now.

Indirectly they forces you to use a booster on these rubbers to get a spring/tensor effect

You can still just be aware of your abilities and not buy these in the first place.
 
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Although the sponge is harder. The ball is catapulting forward more and impacting stronger as it’s heavier and harder. (Think you hit a steel ball vs a fluffy ball), so it’s easier to hit it hard anyway. Or think about tennis. You don’t need to hit much for the ball to go out of the court.

So it’s not necessarily a change at pro level only.
 
Although the sponge is harder. The ball is catapulting forward more and impacting stronger as it’s heavier and harder. (Think you hit a steel ball vs a fluffy ball), so it’s easier to hit it hard anyway. Or think about tennis. You don’t need to hit much for the ball to go out of the court.

So it’s not necessarily a change at pro level only.

No, the plastic ball is not heavier.
 
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KATAPULT TO REDUCE ACCURACY
Not only they employed harder rubber materials, the materials also producing a greater catapultive effect due to a larger cell structure.
AIBISS is featuring a porous sponge of 60 Shore O., -- the superb Katapult lacking controllability. [size=+2]Playing accurate strokes rather impossible. [/size]
 
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Yes, harder rubbers are definitely a trend.
I tried using harder rubbers but 47-48 ESN seems to be my maximum.
I just don't have the feeling and flexibility for 50 to 53 hardness or above.

What baffles me is that it seems that 90% of the forum users have no issues with it.
I can't believe that most of them can really utilize the sponge the full 100%.

In the video where Dan visited Kreanga , he said he played with t05 on Forehand and T05 FX (which is really soft)on Backhand.

Kreanga still has an incredible backhand as you can see in that video.
So are you gonna tell me most of the users here can do a better backhand then him or that his rubber is wrong?
 
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Good point there. Somehow related to your note, here are some of my concerns.
When you start playing table tennis with whatever setup which costs a few dollars, after a while someone will tell you that you need to buy something better and since you do not have knowledge of equipment / a person to guide you and you do not want to spend a lot of money, maybe you get an ALL setup but nothing fancy but still a big improvement compared to your first setup. After a while, maybe a few years, inevitably you will hear about Butterfly for example / tensor rubbers which is a huge step for you compared to what you have experienced so far. By asking more advanced players if you should make the step into the Butterfly world probably most of the players will advise you to stay away from them since they are too reactive/fast/catapult effect/ high throw angle/etc and they are for pro players and everything makes sense for you since you do not have the proper technique yet.
But guess what? You do not have all the pieces of the puzzle at that time so here is another perspective.
Metaphorically speaking, when you have used your first setup, it was like you were taking a walk in the park. With your second setup it was like you were driving a bicycle and in a way you were afraid to drive a VW for example (Tensor rubber) which is indeed more faster than a bicycle but actually some pro players are not even using these rubbers like you will use them – I talk about the fact that you, as a simple amateur probably you will not use an OFF+ blade (all those SUPER Carbon , ZLC, etc) but even if you are going to use them , guess what? The pro players are boosting the rubbers so it is like they are driving a Ferrari and you are definitely not aware of this type of car (boosted, speed glue rubber/ whatever treatment they are applying to their rubbers). So maybe it is time to reconsider what do we call fast rubber because some guys are using fast setups for real (Ferrari, Bugatti Veyron).
The second scenario is related to the original post regarding hard rubbers. Speaking about the guy mentioned in my story who just started to play tennis table, let`s say that after a while he will find out that the setups, even if they look almost the same in terms of size/rubber color/etc beyond the surface they are not quite the same and the rubbers have different hardness / top sheets / thickness /etc. Now our guy is quite in trouble to choose a setup with all these options from many vendors available on the market. Without going into too much detail and with some luck let`s assume that our guy will end up with a setup where he has a medium hard rubber on the forehand and a medium rubber on the backhand (Tenergy 05/05 fx). Probably this setup is very common and it follows the rule where a forehand rubbers needs to be a few degrees harder than the one using on your backhand – assuming you are a forehand looper for example. This makes sense since you cannot generate the same power with your backhand like you are doing with your forehand – (you are not Kreanga) and you are not Xu Xin to jump all over the place so you need a rubber on your backhand to “help you / do part of the job for you” and on forehand you are ok since you are going to use your entire body to generate more power. But with the new trend of the hard rubbers probably some players have started to use them so this shift raises some questions and some of them were mentioned by ZeroTT user. Since these hard rubbers are dead on a lot of blades and you are not Kreanga/Xu Xin and a lot of players are struggling to generate power with the forehand with tensor rubbers how are they going to use them on their backhand where definitely not all of them are just blocking/ pushing for example.On the forehand side probably a hard rubber will help you on receives/placement but since it is quite dead you will get into trouble when you are going to perform a topspin because you need to do all the work and “there is nobody there to do part of the job for you”, not to mention that you do not have the time to get into position most of the time since the ball comes very fast to you so you will end up to perform a block with a dead rubber.
 
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Yes, harder rubbers are definitely a trend.
I tried using harder rubbers but 47-48 ESN seems to be my maximum.
I just don't have the feeling and flexibility for 50 to 53 hardness or above.

What baffles me is that it seems that 90% of the forum users have no issues with it.
I can't believe that most of them can really utilize the sponge the full 100%.

In the video where Dan visited Kreanga , he said he played with t05 on Forehand and T05 FX (which is really soft)on Backhand.

Kreanga still has an incredible backhand as you can see in that video.
So are you gonna tell me most of the users here can do a better backhand then him or that his rubber is wrong?
If you base it on how he contacts the ball in his bh attacks, he usually goes deep into the sponge while maintaining control. I think his strokes are maximized with a not so hard rubber that is what he is used to. If he had a harder sponge i do not think his bh attacks can be as controllable. He is a pro and he can adjust to harder sponges but i think his strokes are beter suited with a softer rubber in the bh.
 
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Hi,

The trend seems to be mainly with ESN / Spring sponges, not so much the Chinese Rubbers, these already have what is considered hard sponges.
Although the ESN / spring sponges now appear to be overtaking the likes of DHS / 729 for sponge hardness.


However DHS are also going in the opposite direction to some extent, this year they have released some 37 degree hardness sponge top sheet combos, 37 degree (DHS and Butterfly)= about 50 degree sponge hardness ESN, 41 degree is about 54/55 degree ESN.
The 37 degree seems to be aimed at the BH market, a lot of players use H3 or similar on forehand and a ESN / spring sponge rubber like T05 on the backhand (Which is about 49 degree ESN) so it looks like DHS are trying to take or compete better for the BH market as well.

As far as boosting is concerned , sponges - ESN, spring sponge, or Chinese style are all boosted by a lot of players, on top of either factory tuned (boosted) sponges or un-tuned factory sponges, I found it difficult to get my head round boosting the ESN / spring sponges, but it seems to be widely done by high(er) level players.

Why boost? - Better speed, better spin and better FEELING (softer to a certain extent) So, us the players want it all !!!

Hard sponges are ‘dead’ feeling especially with a tacky top sheet, but the ESN / Spring sponges are far from ‘dead’ feeling with the grippy top sheets, such as R53, but these are fairly demanding on technique. Slightest error in being out of position, or stroke etc is not ‘forgiven’ in the same way softer sponges are forgiving.

The ‘hybrid’ rubbers (spring sponge / ESN) and tacky top sheet are somewhere in between.
D09C is dead feeling because of the tacky top sheet, not because of the sponge, if you keep the protective film on it and do a bounce test , the ball bounces almost as usual (for a spring sponge) take off the film and it bounces like its ‘dead’ so this must be the tackiness of the top sheet causing the ’dead’ feeling.

At the end of the day, you can still buy rubbers with soft sponges, so buck the trend, play with what suits you !!!
 
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Although the sponge is harder. The ball is catapulting forward more and impacting stronger as it’s heavier and harder. (Think you hit a steel ball vs a fluffy ball), so it’s easier to hit it hard anyway. Or think about tennis. You don’t need to hit much for the ball to go out of the court.

So it’s not necessarily a change at pro level only.
This is a poor example because in TT the balls are the same. A ball of cotton will have a lot of air resistance relative to its mass.

The making of the sponge is the true trick in making rubbers. It is the air in the air pockets that is springy. The sponge material must be firm enough to keep the ball from bottoming out but if it is any firmer than necessary then it starts to lose its spring.

There is no point in getting firmer rubber if you don't think you are 'bottoming' out your rubber on your fastest strokes. Even if you are you can try changing the stroke to hit the ball more tangentially for more spin instead if hitting through the ball. Sometimes on flat hits it makes no difference if the rubber 'bottoms out'.

This is all just marketing but there are some people that might really like the harder feel.
 
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The proper choice is a personal responsibility.
Agreed, different styles, different needs, different approaches.

This is a poor example because in TT the balls are the same.
I don't agree with this statement. I see a lot of variance in terms of the playability of the balls. I can play any of those I tried without much grievance, but I can't agree that they are all the same.
 
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There is no point in getting firmer rubber if you don't think you are 'bottoming' out your rubber on your fastest strokes. Even if you are you can try changing the stroke to hit the ball more tangentially for more spin instead if hitting through the ball. Sometimes on flat hits it makes no difference if the rubber 'bottoms out'.

This is all just marketing but there are some people that might really like the harder feel.

A lot of more advanced players very well may be "bottoming out" their rubber on faster strokes. Do you think it is always feasible and will have no trade-offs to simply hit the ball more tangentially in all of these situations?
 
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I don't agree with this statement. I see a lot of variance in terms of the playability of the balls. I can play any of those I tried without much grievance, but I can't agree that they are all the same.
It is statement like this that really wind me up!
People trying to score points with non-nonsensical arguments.
The difference between ITTF approved TT balls is not as different as a ball of fluff and a ball of something solid.

However you do bring up a good point. What balls do you use to test the rubbers if they are that different?
Manufacturers would probably use the fastest/spiniest TT balls but the ITTF is suppose to insure that all the balls are the same. There is a specification for the COR of TT balls. See the section on sports equipment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_restitution
The problem with this specification is that the COR varies as a function of impact speed. From the Tieffenbacher pdf the COR drops linearly but the Tieffenbacher document is old and was testing 38mm balls it back then.

The old celluloid balls deform easier than the new plastic balls. Just try to indent a plastic ball. It is easy to do with a celluloid ball and it will spring back.

At higher or lower impact speed the different brands of balls may vary.
 
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A lot of more advanced players very well may be "bottoming out" their rubber on faster strokes. Do you think it is always feasible and will have no trade-offs to simply hit the ball more tangentially in all of these situations?
I don't think it makes a difference when making a line of sight flat shot. However, when looping I think it makes a big difference because the ratio of the tangential to normal COR will change thus changing the spin to speed ratio or what many call 'throw'.

If the ball bottoms out the sponge will not absorb any more energy. This means the wood and the ball must absorb the rest. They will not return the same percentage of energy as the the sponge so the COR will change. My guesstimation is that the normal COR will increase relative to the tangential COR thus lowering the spin to speed ration or 'throw'

People talk about rubbers being linear or non linear. It think it is best that they are linear but what if the ratio of COR changes with different impact speeds? Then the spin to speed ratio or 'throw' would change.

I can think of a lot of ways to test rubbers and what makes a good rubber good but I am 67 now and don't care to spend my time testing. Maybe some young engineering geek will do it eventually.
 
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Here's what they don't want you to know.

All these hard rubbers, not to mention tacky rubbers, are intended for the Chinese market, not even Asian, but Chinese.

The European market has stagnated for decades. OTOH, China's market is bigger than that of Europe and is still growing. However, talks of new ESN rubbers began decreasing around 2014, Donic's sales in China reflected the trend but ESN still screwed up the forecast and kept milking a dead cow. ESN's profit has been down a lot, so has Donic's, and market share is getting eaten away, especially on the BH front, where DHS and Butterfly have been gaining ground. It's not just about capturing the FH market anymore.

Below is how Xiom Japan describes their foresight in "predicting" the trend towards tacky rubbers on their website that was launched today. Palio Thors: Am I a joke to you?

https://xiom.jp/?tid=3&mode=f15
従来のラバーよりもさらに回転がかかり、特徴のあるボールが出せる粘着性ラバーの需要が高まってきている。XIOMではこうした流れを事前に予測し、過去10年間継続的にその研究、開発を行ってきた。それは卓球大国である中国では粘着性ラバーが最も使われており、実際に中国選手の多くが粘着性ラバーを使っているからだ。そんな中、苦難の末にドイツ製初の粘着ラバー「ヴェガチャイナ」を開発し、2012年に日本で発売した。「ヴェガチャイナ」は、当時市場にはあまり無かった、多くのプレーヤーに支持される粘着性のラバーを目指して、開発から発売まで様々な試行錯誤を重ねた。「ヴェガチャイナ」はドイツ製粘着性ラバーの原点でありスタンダードだ。
There is an increasing demand for sticky rubber that spins more than conventional rubber and can produce distinctive balls. XIOM predicts this trend in advance, and has been conducting continuous research and development for the past 10 years. This is because sticky rubber is most often used in China, which is a major table tennis powerhouse, and many Chinese players actually use sticky rubber. Under such circumstances, we developed the first German-made adhesive rubber "Vega China" after hardship and released it in Japan in 2012. “Vega China” has undergone various trials and errors from its development to its launch, aiming for a sticky rubber that has not been on the market at that time and is supported by many players. "Vega China" is the origin and standard of German adhesive rubber.
 
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