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View Full Version : Adam Bobrow vs World no. 7 Lin Yun-Ju



Simas
08-18-2020, 11:49 PM
First video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMCOlqekdoI&t=302s

zyu81
08-19-2020, 01:17 AM
edit: LYJ playing righty is pretty interesting never-before-seen type of stuff. Seems like he is probably a half decent club player with his off hand. I'm hoping that in the follow up videos we can see more content and insight regarding his training routine/partners/coaching as well as gameplay.

Tinykin
08-19-2020, 10:03 AM
Agreed. Wasted opportunity.
I would far prefer to hear him talk about his life and family and how he got to no.7

Simas
08-19-2020, 10:35 AM
Not sure if that you could call a wasted opportunity. For me it seems he got used to goofing out and now it's the only way he can play. It's like in his muscle memory. I saw somewhere sometime ago him playing in the competition seriously (if I could say that at all ;)), so it seems he can't overcome himself to normal gameplay -getting in the right place at the right moment and because of that enabling him to perform the correct strokes and being able to make them all together...

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 11:12 AM
As solid as a player that Bobrow is, him constantly going for snakes and lobbing immediately off of the serve gets a bit stale, especially when he does this against pro players. There seem to be lots of opportunities that he could go for a real shot but would rather continue the rally to appeal to casual fans, I don't know.

LYJ playing righty is pretty interesting never-before-seen type of stuff. Seems like he is probably a half decent club player with his off hand. But I'm not a huge fan of the "challenge match" type of content - there is never any challenge and the pro players can't even begin to show what makes them so amazing with that big of a skill discrepancy. I think the "Ask a Pro Anything" or "Day in the Life" type stuff that gives insight into their daily training, routines, etc. is more interesting.

It is always a bit unfair to judge a player against a pro template without knowing how he evolved and how long he has been playing. Bobrow has always played this way.

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 11:16 AM
Agreed. Wasted opportunity.
I would far prefer to hear him talk about his life and family and how he got to no.7

Not sure why it is a wasted opportunity. You guys are tough. This channel is a chance to see Bobrow make table tennis look fun and entertaining to even the casual viewer on some level. At least I find it entertaining. He is going to have more videos so we will get to see a lot of TT. For me playing sports is a form of communication. You get to see someone's TT culture on the table. Interviews are just stories that you can find in books. Seeing Lin play someone at the 2200 level makes you appreciate hisngsme better. BTW, if memory serves me right, Lin seemed better than Boll with his right hand.

KMTT
08-19-2020, 12:30 PM
As a relative newbie certain aspects of Adam Bobrow's films are interesting - the locations, facilities, level of local players etc Bobrow's rapport with the pros, humour and positivity are engaging. The table tennis for me is a let down. I agree the lobs and snakes are getting stale, varying the format and a good interview or documentary (Hugo Calderano 'Outside the Venue') would appeal.

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 01:12 PM
Guys, let's remember that he is going to play more matches with Lin Yun Ju's training team and then with Lin Yun Ju at full strength. And Bobrow has many videos of his matches before he got to 2200 - he has always been a lobber/Fisher with the occasional direct loop thrown in. For me it actually makes the game more interesting to see how his style actually gives the younger kids trouble.

zyu81
08-19-2020, 02:29 PM
It is always a bit unfair to judge a player against a pro template without knowing how he evolved and how long he has been playing. Bobrow has always played this way.

What is unfair? I know that Bobrow has always been a lobber. I also know that he is a better player than most people here and the majority of club players, and give him credit for being a good player, to me I'm not particularly interested in watching mismatched casual gameplay but I do realize that to a large portion of the audience that can be very entertaining. If it gets more people interested in table tennis, that's great.


With all these opportunities he has to interact with top players, after seeing all these challenge match videos where the pro players are just half-assed smashing and dropshotting, it can get stale. So, I do think getting to see LYJ play righty was a nice choice. As mentioned in another post, I suspect he may be ambidextrous or even naturally right-handed. Hope we can find out in the sequels. I found it very interesting to see his town, his training facility and team, etc. I hope we get more insight into that stuff rather than only challenge matches.

zyu81
08-19-2020, 02:40 PM
Not sure why it is a wasted opportunity. You guys are tough. This channel is a chance to see Bobrow make table tennis look fun and entertaining to even the casual viewer on some level. At least I find it entertaining. He is going to have more videos so we will get to see a lot of TT. For me playing sports is a form of communication. You get to see someone's TT culture on the table. Interviews are just stories that you can find in books. Seeing Lin play someone at the 2200 level makes you appreciate hisngsme better. BTW, if memory serves me right, Lin seemed better than Boll with his right hand.

I agree that "wasted opportunity" is a bit tough. I was more going for "room for improvement" and hope that my post reads as such. What he is doing now is better than nothing but I was a big fan of TTD's "day in the life" series.

I have a sneaky suspicion we will find out that LYJ is a natural right-hander...there are a few factors that have made me wonder that.



Guys, let's remember that he is going to play more matches with Lin Yun Ju's training team and then with Lin Yun Ju at full strength. And Bobrow has many videos of his matches before he got to 2200 - he has always been a lobber/Fisher with the occasional direct loop thrown in. For me it actually makes the game more interesting to see how his style actually gives the younger kids trouble.

It's actually interesting, I think with the old ball his style would have given kids a lot more trouble. Harimoto's sister (despite being a much better player) didn't seem to struggle with the spin a lot nor did the girl in the video below, who is maybe a level better than Adam. Note the video might be hard to watch in it's entirety due to what I mentioned in my initial post, this is one of the cases where I feel that his constantly lobbing is less of a playstyle thing and more of a theatrical decision.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkvt68gImTU

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 03:08 PM
What is unfair? I know that Bobrow has always been a lobber. I also know that he is a better player than most people here and the majority of club players, and give him credit for being a good player, but none of that means that it makes it fun to watch him against someone who is 100x better. With all these opportunities he has to interact with top players, after seeing all these challenge match videos where the pro players are just half-assed smashing and dropshotting, it gets a bit repetitive. So, I do think getting to see LYJ play righty was a nice choice. I found it very interesting to see his town, his training facility and team, etc. I hope we get more insight into that stuff rather than only challenge matches.

The pros would beat just about any player at Adam's level half assed smashing and dropshotting and we see this all the time when Dan plays them in equipment reviews. That is just as repetitive and we don't hear you complain there. So this is something else. All those things you mention are part of the experience Adam is bringing in his videos. I think there should be a more positive appreciation of the what Adam is doing and less complaining about a desire for information that you would probably be able to get in 2 seconds if you spoke Chinese to someone like TonyTableTennis.

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 03:14 PM
I agree that "wasted opportunity" is a bit tough. I was more going for "room for improvement" and hope that my post reads as such. What he is doing now is better than nothing but I was a big fan of TTD's "day in the life" series.

I have a sneaky suspicion we will find out that LYJ is a natural right-hander...there are a few factors that have made me wonder that.




It's actually interesting, I think with the old ball his style would have given kids a lot more trouble. Harimoto's sister (despite being a much better player) didn't seem to struggle with the spin a lot nor did the girl in the video below, who is maybe a level better than Adam. Note the video might be hard to watch in it's entirety due to what I mentioned in my initial post, this is one of the cases where I feel that his constantly lobbing is less of a playstyle thing and more of a theatrical decision.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkvt68gImTU

I think you confuse playing level with trouble. An adult 2200 player playing in straight forward style would have a different issue playing with these kids. But if you think Adam isn't making the kids hesitate with his style that is your prerogative. My experience playing tells me a very different thing. That girl wants to overwhelm him with speed but struggles to do so.

bobpuls
08-19-2020, 03:15 PM
There is nothing wasted so far.... Second maybe third video will follow... So do not be so harsh and enjoy..... I like him a lot.

zyu81
08-19-2020, 03:37 PM
The pros would beat just about any player at Adam's level half assed smashing and dropshotting and we see this all the time when Dan plays them in equipment reviews. That is just as repetitive and we don't hear you complain there. So this is something else. All those things you mention are part of the experience Adam is bringing in his videos. I think there should be a more positive appreciation of the what Adam is doing and less complaining about a desire for information that you would probably be able to get in 2 seconds if you spoke Chinese to someone like TonyTableTennis.

I'm only moderately entertained by Dan's challenge matches as well so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by saying that I've never explicitly posted that. The difference is that those are usually done as part of a sponsored review, Dan has less free reign to go off the table I assume. In cases that he can, I'm more interested by seeing actual video content for day in the life type stuff like he did with Maze, as I've said before. Not sure why you seem to be implying there is something insidious here, I am far from a Bobrow hater and think he has done tremendous good for promoting the sport, and am quite sure I have mentioned this before.

Seeing LYJ understand and respond in English was something that I was surprised to see not addressed. I have heard that he understands it well but isn't confident in speaking yet, but that is something that sets him apart from a lot of Asian stars, so I'd like to hear more about things like that in the future videos and hope it isn't 15 more minutes of Bobrow lobbing people's pushes. Is that fair?

zyu81
08-19-2020, 03:40 PM
I think you confuse playing level with trouble. An adult 2200 player playing in straight forward style would have a different issue playing with these kids. But if you think Adam isn't making the kids hesitate with his style that is your prerogative. My experience playing tells me a very different thing. That girl wants to overwhelm him with speed but struggles to do so.

I think you are misunderstanding my post, or maybe I wrote it poorly. I think Bobrow would have given kids more trouble with the old ball simply in terms of unforced errors with handling the spin, reading the spin notwithstanding. I didn't say that he wasn't giving kids any trouble. Throw this back to the celluloid ball era and Bobrow probably wins those matches.

Michael Kitt
08-19-2020, 03:50 PM
Top players would likely prefer not to have some random like Bobrow coming to challenge them in serious matches and recording them, as they have nothing to gain and respect could be lost. But having him come for some tomfoolery is unique and offers a special brand of entertainment, allowing everyone to relax and have fun.

Dan vs pros, Dan should not want to do well against them when reviewing a pros personal equipment. It's much better for his brand if he loses handily. I even saw a vid when he let Waldner win because Waldner wasn't playing well.

It's about marketability, allows for them to get access to these players to begin with. If you interview them they're just gonna say they practice alot and have good coaching, that's not particularly interesting either.

Lula
08-19-2020, 03:51 PM
Do not know the ranking in the US so well But thought 2200 to be pretty high? Is bobrow so good?

zyu81
08-19-2020, 03:53 PM
Do not know the ranking in the US so well But thought 2200 to be pretty high? Is bobrow so good?

Yes, Bobrow is a solid 2200 level player. A 2200 player is the best player in most clubs, and still a top player in elite clubs. Not good enough to beat the national team members or title contenders etc., but good enough to handily beat most club level or amateur tournament players.

zyu81
08-19-2020, 03:58 PM
Top players would likely prefer not to have some random like Bobrow coming to challenge them in serious matches and recording them, as they have nothing to gain and respect could be lost. But having him come for some tomfoolery is unique and offers a special brand of entertainment, allowing everyone to relax and have fun.

Dan vs pros, Dan should not want to do well against them when reviewing a pros personal equipment. It's much better for his brand if he loses handily. I even saw a vid when he let Waldner win because Waldner wasn't playing well.

It's about marketability, allows for them to get access to these players to begin with. If you interview them they're just gonna say they practice alot and have good coaching, that's not particularly interesting either.

There is a difference between monotonous interviewing and actually interacting with and bringing out the character beneath the player as well as providing video content for what their routine looks like.

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 04:18 PM
I'm only moderately entertained by Dan's challenge matches as well so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by saying that I've never explicitly posted that. The difference is that those are usually done as part of a sponsored review, Dan has less free reign to go off the table I assume. In cases that he can, I'm more interested by seeing actual video content for day in the life type stuff like he did with Maze, as I've said before. Not sure why you seem to be implying there is something insidious here, I am far from a Bobrow hater and think he has done tremendous good for promoting the sport, and am quite sure I have mentioned this before.

Seeing LYJ understand and respond in English was something that I was surprised to see not addressed. I have heard that he understands it well but isn't confident in speaking yet, but that is something that sets him apart from a lot of Asian stars, so I'd like to hear more about things like that in the future videos and hope it isn't 15 more minutes of Bobrow lobbing people's pushes. Is that fair?


I'm fine with whatever Bobrow does - he already does some of that and he does a lot of that for ITTF already. Without any insight into who his sponsoring his trips or his channel, and since I am not paying for it, I just want to enjoy it. Even with Dan's reviews, he could also play those pros in any style he chooses, and the pros often choose to lob and fish to Dan.

I don't think you are being deliberately insidious, but you have to realize that Adam is trying to reach a broad audience, not just you, which he may be doing successfully or unsuccessfully. I think the way you are describing your requests does display a disdain for what he does, I would hope you would qualify your request in a way that makes it clear that what Adam does even without what you want him to do has value. I am sure you could easily post or email Adam and ask him whether it is possible for him to collect some information on the top players in interviews and post to his channel as part of his trips and see what he says. For me, just seeing the life and culture of where he is visiting is more than enough. And a day in the life of a pro is good for TT training heads like me and you, but it flies well over the heads of many people.

One of the reasons why I write about this is that the exhibition element of table tennis is no longer seriously promoted or developed. Channels that do work on this like Adam's and Pongfinity are the biggest TT ones on Youtube. Yet everyone continues to want to go back to TT that no one understands and doesn't realize that the sport will die if we don't popularize all its dimensions.

zyu81
08-19-2020, 04:32 PM
I'm fine with whatever Bobrow does - he already does some of that and he does a lot of that for ITTF already. Without any insight into who his sponsoring his trips or his channel, and since I am not paying for it, I just want to enjoy it. Even with Dan's reviews, he could also play those pros in any style he chooses, and the pros often choose to lob and fish to Dan.

I don't think you are being deliberately insidious, but you have to realize that Adam is trying to reach a broad audience, not just you, which he may be doing successfully or unsuccessfully. I think the way you are describing your requests does display a disdain for what he does, I would hope you would qualify your request in a way that makes it clear that what Adam does even without what you want him to do has value. I am sure you could easily post or email Adam and ask him whether it is possible for him to collect some information on the top players in interviews and post to his channel as part of his trips and see what he says. For me, just seeing the life and culture of where he is visiting is more than enough. And a day in the life of a pro is good for TT training heads like me and you, but it flies well over the heads of many people.

One of the reasons why I write about this is that the exhibition element of table tennis is no longer seriously promoted or developed. Channels that do work on this like Adam's and Pongfinity are the biggest TT ones on Youtube. Yet everyone continues to want to go back to TT that no one understands and doesn't realize that the sport will die if we don't popularize all its dimensions.

Fair. I think his videos, exhibition-y as they are, do a lot of good for making the sport more interesting to casual players or even non-players. The DudePerfect collaboration was big, and it does seem like he has a significant portion of his fan-base that are not serious players so he has to do his best to appeal to his audience. It is a win if it grows the sport even if it isn't the content that more, as you describe it "TT training heads" would value the most.

Lula
08-19-2020, 10:13 PM
Would be interesting to see him play another 2200+ player. Have a hard time Seeing him being a top player in te most of the clubs. But i have almost never seen him play serious.

NextLevel
08-19-2020, 11:00 PM
Would be interesting to see him play another 2200+ player. Have a hard time Seeing him being a top player in te most of the clubs. But i have almost never seen him play serious.

https://youtu.be/Wkvt68gImTU

https://youtu.be/xCDzN5l5bso

Maybe 2200 is too high but 2100 + for sure.

Lula
08-20-2020, 04:38 AM
He get good lenght at those! Seems like a nice guy too! Were people better at smashing before? Feel like players he play can not really smash, but maybe the length is so good. Even Hao Shuai did so much looping so he could not smash either.

zyu81
08-24-2020, 02:32 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9fA78gzsuI

Part 2. Anybody know the name of "the coach"/Yu Kayama's father?

topspin_thoughts
08-27-2020, 01:58 PM
LYJ comes across as really humble. Love that he picked up Adam with his family!

zyu81
08-27-2020, 05:22 PM
LYJ comes across as really humble. Love that he picked up Adam with his family!

https://www.cw.com.tw/article/5096812

https://www.gvm.com.tw/article/67361



LYJ rejects the notion that the media/coaches/fellow players have given him of being a child prodigy: "I'm not a child prodigy, just a hard worker"
Despite being supremely naturally talented, he insists on practicing non-stop, often 6-7 hours per day. Has devised his own motivation techniques to maintain discipline and get through ruts/exhaustion. Has always been completely motivated by himself, there isn't much pressure coming from his parents nor coaches.
Pays special attention to the minor details and seemingly basic/routine parts of his training, has diligently followed all training plans day in and day out for years
Asked about his 18th birthday plans: "continue to practice as usual"
Was initially thought to not have a great body or physical condition for table tennis, but coaches' opinions changed immediately when seeing him pick up the paddle. Interesting contrast from the Chinese system where players are often funneled into table tennis schools based strictly on their body composition

NextLevel
08-27-2020, 06:14 PM
https://www.cw.com.tw/article/5096812

https://www.gvm.com.tw/article/67361



LYJ rejects the notion that the media/coaches/fellow players have given him of being a child prodigy: "I'm not a child prodigy, just a hard worker"
Despite being supremely naturally talented, he insists on practicing non-stop, often 6-7 hours per day. Has devised his own motivation techniques to maintain discipline and get through ruts/exhaustion. Has always been completely motivated by himself, there isn't much pressure coming from his parents nor coaches.
Pays special attention to the minor details and seemingly basic/routine parts of his training, has diligently followed all training plans day in and day out for years
Asked about his 18th birthday plans: "continue to practice as usual"
Was initially thought to not have a great body or physical condition for table tennis, but coaches' opinions changed immediately when seeing him pick up the paddle. Interesting contrast from the Chinese system where players are often funneled into table tennis schools based strictly on their body composition



Yeah I once told people that I felt he hits a higher quality ball than Lin Gaoyuan. You look at his build and you would never believe it but you can see the trouble his opponents have with his spin level. I also found the video excerpt of his weight training interesting. It looked like Fido Dido lifting buildings.

zyu81
08-27-2020, 06:37 PM
Yeah I once told people that I felt he hits a higher quality ball than Lin Gaoyuan. You look at his build and you would never believe it but you can see the trouble his opponents have with his spin level. I also found the video excerpt of his weight training interesting. It looked like Fido Dido lifting buildings.

Wouldn't surprise me. Having seen LGY and most of the CNT live at one point or another, his shot quality both in games and in training seemed significantly lower than that of most of the others. He is also a small and pretty thin guy, with a technique that IMO isn't optimized for power (that's not really how he plays).

Factor in LYJ's unpredictability that increases the functional speed of his shot (how much time the opponent has to read and react) and you very well may be right.

Lula
08-27-2020, 08:29 PM
I Do not have so much opinion on Lin’s strokes but I think he moves very very well. Seem to always come correctly to the ball. Do not know if it have to do with footwork or sense of play? Probably both?

quanghuysk
08-27-2020, 09:20 PM
I agree. I found he has excellent footwork so that his strokes can be very well :)

zyu81
09-01-2020, 03:58 PM
I Do not have so much opinion on Lin’s strokes but I think he moves very very well. Seem to always come correctly to the ball. Do not know if it have to do with footwork or sense of play? Probably both?

Which lefty and scrawny Lin are you talking about? :cool:

Simas
09-11-2020, 12:18 PM
The game


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H6uYSbjgGI&ab_channel=AdamBobrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H6uYSbjgGI&ab_channel=AdamBobrow

Simas
09-11-2020, 12:21 PM
how about the around the net roller with a hand switch at 4:15? :cool:

NextLevel
09-11-2020, 12:33 PM
how about the around the net roller with a hand switch at 4:15? :cool:

Everything was sick. It kinda reminded me of when I played Filip Szymanski in a handicap match at Westchester (I was spotted seven points). I won the first game 11-1. It was downhill from there. I couldn't put a ball past him and the ball kept thing back with crazy spin from incredible angles. The 4th game of this one was very impressive and shows how in reality Adam had zero control of the result.

Simas
09-11-2020, 12:58 PM
Everything was sick. It kinda reminded me of when I played Filip Szymanski in a handicap match at Westchester (I was spotted seven points). I won the first game 11-1. It was downhill from there. I couldn't put a ball past him and the ball kept thing back with crazy spin from incredible angles. The 4th game of this one was very impressive and shows how in reality Adam had zero control of the result.

Yes, it was a great show. Zillion of rollers. And it seems that this time Adam put some more effort to win when usually? :D

NextLevel
09-11-2020, 01:21 PM
Yes, it was a great show. Zillion of rollers. And it seems that this time Adam put some more effort to win when usually? :D
Adam always puts in effort to win. His style just doesn't register with what most people think is serious table tennis. But one of the reasons that people don't let like Adam is because it is a hard style.

Lin was just way too strong for it to matter.

zyu81
09-11-2020, 01:59 PM
The feeling to land almost every around the net shot is ridiculous

SofaChamp
09-11-2020, 02:17 PM
how about the around the net roller with a hand switch at 4:15? :cool:

That was an amazing shot (BUT it also shows how for a decent player an around the net shot is not that out of this world if you have the right set up ball.)

v100ev
09-11-2020, 03:31 PM
This(for me) is by far the best "vs Pro" video. Lin shows incredible feeling and superb footwork. And with such ease! :D