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Yamen Raslan
10-17-2020, 01:50 PM
fh
bh


mxp

mxp


mxs
mxs


elp
elp


els
els


fxp
fxp


fxs
fxs


hello table tennis daily community,
I want to buy two rubbers of tibhar evolution (for me and my friend so we can get use of the offer in tt11 3=4)
what about mxp on fh and mxs on bh? there is also fxp or elp on bh... and fxs els
there are a lot of options and I am confused
which two rubbers will serve me for long time ?
what thicknesses is the best [I have no idea about it] ?
I am an intermediate player training 6 hours a week , I am an offensive player on fh and allround(learning to spin) on bh (my bh need to improve more than my fh and I want to be more aggressive on both sides)
my blade is wooden Chinese from a paddle with two chinese rubbers
(i dont wanna be an international player just local)
ps i know I need time to get along with these fast rubbers. hope to suits me and enjoy it
I really need you help and appreciate your co operation
you are my rescuers
thank you
please choose from the table and ignore the poll

BryanY
10-17-2020, 02:50 PM
The safest choice is FX-S. It has a better topsheet than FX-P which is more stable and dynamic. It also has a soft enough sponge that it’s easy to use.

If your technique is good and consistent then get the max thickness.

Yamen Raslan
10-17-2020, 07:05 PM
The safest choice is FX-S. It has a better topsheet than FX-P which is more stable and dynamic. It also has a soft enough sponge that it’s easy to use.

If your technique is good and consistent then get the max thickness.

thank you very much ..
do you mean mxp on fh and fxs on bh?
could you tell me what the difference between the highest and the lowest thickness for speed and control?

yogi_bear
10-18-2020, 02:19 AM
Mxs is very good but it feels hard and you need more brushing contact with the ball.

BryanY
10-18-2020, 04:54 AM
thank you very much ..
do you mean mxp on fh and fxs on bh?
could you tell me what the difference between the highest and the lowest thickness for speed and control?

FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.

What is your skill level on forehand? If you are comfortable with a tacky Chinese rubber like Hurricane 3 then probably go with MX-S as an alternative. Otherwise MX-P or EL-S are pretty good for conventional forehand strokes. FX-S might work well if you need more consistency on forehand.

virtuososiu
10-18-2020, 06:14 AM
For months, I was using ELS both sides. It helped me improve my strokes a lot

Magic_M
10-18-2020, 06:51 AM
In the moment I really like the combination of EL-S (1,9-2,0 mm) on forehand and MX-P (1,9-2,0 mm) on backhand.

TTLOVE
10-18-2020, 07:56 AM
If you are a completely novice you should go for els on both sides. If you are an amateur you should go for elp on backhand and els on forehand, if you are a semi-professional player you should use mxp on both sides

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 04:27 PM
FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.

Perhaps you are simplifying. But the information above is not actually accurate. It is what most people say. But....most people seem to have this wrong.

Sponge dampens. That actually does mean that sponge makes the ball go slower. However, that also makes it so you can swing harder.

So, here is how this works. Thinner sponge is better for more direct contact like smashes, drives and drive loops. With that kind of shot you have more control and the ball will go faster. But thinner sponge causes the ball to impact the wood sooner, so, for a player whose spin contact is less developed, it makes harder to LEARN how to spin. Someone who has solid spin contact can use thinner rubbers and still spin the heck out of the ball. But someone learning will bottom out when trying to spin and end up hitting a flatter shot.

Thicker sponge makes it easier to Learn spin contact and, when you are spinning the ball, it allows you to let the ball sink deeper into the topsheet and sponge without impacting the wood of the blade so:

1) you have a bigger window for making spin contact without bottoming out,
and
2) someone with good spin contact will be able to get the ball to sink deeper so the topsheet wraps around the ball more fully and grabs the ball more fully, so you get more spin.

For someone who is learning to spin the ball, thicker sponge makes that easier, but it makes it so you have less control ON MORE DIRECT CONTACT (like drives and smashes). For someone who knows how to spin, thicker sponge gives you more control because it allows you to get more spin and to control the ball with that extra spin. It ALSO allows you to swing much harder while spinning the ball, so, the end effect, is, when spinning the ball, you can hit a faster shot while getting more spin with thicker rubbers. The faster shot is not because the rubber is faster. The faster shot is because you can put more force into your swing without losing control PROVIDED you are spinning the ball.

So, the issue is more complicated than most people present. But there is something in what I explained above that caused Werner Schlager to say that any person training and wanting to get to a high level looping, should never use anything thinner than max. Now he was talking about elite kids. So, maybe that is not always the case. But if you want to improve your technique and your looping skills, it would be worth understanding what caused Shlager to say that. :)

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:28 PM
Mxs is very good but it feels hard and you need more brushing contact with the ball.

thank you very much .. I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 06:36 PM
I am an intermediate player training 6 hours a week , I am an offensive player on fh and allround(learning to spin) on bh (my bh need to improve more than my fh and I want to be more aggressive on both sides)

Based on the info above, for FH any of the Evolution rubbers you are asking about should be fine. Probably MXP or MXS make sense and which one would depend on your preference. MXP is faster and has more catapult and more dynamic range. MXS gets more spin and is a little more predictable but has fewer gears.

However, for BH, based on what you said above, you would probably want either FXP or FXS. The differences are similar to what I described for MXP and MXS but FXP and FXS are softer than the M versions.

In the end, you would benefit from trying any rubber before you buy it. But in the days of CoVID asking people to try their rackets to see how you like the blade and rubbers they use is not as easy as it was before CoVID.

Good luck. And if you do find someone with any of these rubbers and you can convince them to let you try their setup, it would be worth it. But they are all good rubbers so, no matter which you get for either wing, you will have a good rubber.

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:37 PM
FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.

What is your skill level on forehand? If you are comfortable with a tacky Chinese rubber like Hurricane 3 then probably go with MX-S as an alternative. Otherwise MX-P or EL-S are pretty good for conventional forehand strokes. FX-S might work well if you need more consistency on forehand.
thank you very much
on my fh I generate good spinny balls but I need to increase the speed with fast rubber
on bh have good drives I need to have more spin
do you think mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick is a good choice?

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:42 PM
For months, I was using ELS both sides. It helped me improve my strokes a lot
I prefer to have faster rubber than els on fh [like mxp] and a slower one [like fxs] with max thick
do you think it is a good idea ?

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 06:45 PM
thank you very much
on my fh I generate good spinny balls but I need to increase the speed with fast rubber
on bh have good drives I need to have more spin
do you think mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thickis a good choice?

I do. But I also think MXP (FH) and FXP (BH) would be good; MXS (FH) and FXS (BH) would be good; or MXS (FH) and FXP (BH) would be good.

As long as the rubber starts with F for the BH, that is the only thing that would really be important. The E rubbers would also be good for your FH but the M versions are faster. So, you would probably want the M versions more. But.....would they be better for you?

I would need to see footage of you playing to actually have a valid opinion.

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:45 PM
In the moment I really like the combination of EL-S (1,9-2,0 mm) on forehand and MX-P (1,9-2,0 mm) on backhand.

thank you very much .. you seem you like the fast. rubber on bh can I know why ? what about fxs instead of els?
I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:53 PM
If you are a completely novice you should go for els on both sides. If you are an amateur you should go for elp on backhand and els on forehand, if you are a semi-professional player you should use mxp on both sides
thank you very much ..
you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 06:57 PM
Perhaps you are simplifying. But the information above is not actually accurate. It is what most people say. But....most people seem to have this wrong.

Sponge dampens. That actually does mean that sponge makes the ball go slower. However, that also makes it so you can swing harder.


So, here is how this works. Thinner sponge is better for more direct contact like smashes, drives and drive loops. With that kind of shot you have more control and the ball will go faster. But thinner sponge causes the ball to impact the wood sooner, so, for a player whose spin contact is less developed, it makes harder to LEARN how to spin. Someone who has solid spin contact can use thinner rubbers and still spin the heck out of the ball. But someone learning will bottom out when trying to spin and end up hitting a flatter shot.

Thicker sponge makes it easier to Learn spin contact and, when you are spinning the ball, it allows you to let the ball sink deeper into the topsheet and sponge without impacting the wood of the blade so:

1) you have a bigger window for making spin contact without bottoming out,
and
2) someone with good spin contact will be able to get the ball to sink deeper so the topsheet wraps around the ball more fully and grabs the ball more fully, so you get more spin.

For someone who is learning to spin the ball, thicker sponge makes that easier, but it makes it so you have less control ON MORE DIRECT CONTACT (like drives and smashes). For someone who knows how to spin, thicker sponge gives you more control because it allows you to get more spin and to control the ball with that extra spin. It ALSO allows you to swing much harder while spinning the ball, so, the end effect, is, when spinning the ball, you can hit a faster shot while getting more spin with thicker rubbers. The faster shot is not because the rubber is faster. The faster shot is because you can put more force into your swing without losing control PROVIDED you are spinning the ball.

So, the issue is more complicated than most people present. But there is something in what I explained above that caused Werner Schlager to say that any person training and wanting to get to a high level looping, should never use anything thinner than max. Now he was talking about elite kids. So, maybe that is not always the case. But if you want to improve your technique and your looping skills, it would be worth understanding what caused Shlager to say that. :)
thank you very much for your effort you explained the thickness very well
so depending on what you say iam gonna have the max thick
I really appreciate your help

TTLOVE
10-19-2020, 06:59 PM
thank you very much ..
you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?
fxs IMO is to soft, I love the elp on backhand for me it is the perfect rubber. I'm using elp max on backhand for at least 3 years

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 07:00 PM
thank you very much ..
you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

Personally, having felt both, I liked FXP considerably more than FXS because of how much more dynamic it is. But everyone is different. So I cannot say what you would like. Just that either FXP or FXS gives you the most chance of improving your skills with your BH whereas any of the harder (also faster rubbers [E or M]) would make it harder for your BH to improve.

FXP gives you the ability to play a wider range of shots and it feels more alive. FXS is good for short game and when you drive or loop the ball, you have to put more effort in to get the output you are looking for. Because FXP has more catapult, it makes it so you can have a much wider range of offensive shots rather than all or nothing.

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 07:05 PM
fxs IMO is to soft, I love the elp on backhand for me it is the perfect rubber. I'm using elp max on backhand for at least 3 years

Too soft for you does not say much about the correct hardness for someone who is trying to improve his BH.

In 2016 Emmanuel Lebesson won the European Championships in Budapest using FXP on both sides. It seems it was not too soft for someone who is a decent level pro. So, what is the actual meaning of "too soft."

I know other very high level players who like soft rubbers as well. It is true that the trend is that people are using harder rubbers in the last few years. But there are still some players high level players who prefer soft rubbers.

When you are skilled enough, soft, medium or hard is really just a personal choice. When you are trying to learn, softer gives you the best opportunity to develop your technique and improve the quality of your contact. The harder the rubber, the more precise you need to be.

And not everyone likes the topsheet on ELP which is a different topsheet than the one on MXP and FXP.

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 07:21 PM
Personally, having felt both, I liked FXP considerably more than FXS because of how much more dynamic it is. But everyone is different. So I cannot say what you would like. Just that either FXP or FXS gives you the most chance of improving your skills with your BH whereas any of the harder (also faster rubbers [E or M]) would make it harder for your BH to improve.

FXP gives you the ability to play a wider range of shots and it feels more alive. FXS is good for short game and when you drive or loop the ball, you have to put more effort in to get the output you are looking for. Because FXP has more catapult, it makes it so you can have a much wider range of offensive shots rather than all or nothing.
I will consider your suggestion .. but I will take long time to change my rubbers do you think the fxp will serve me as I improve on bh more than fxs ?

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 07:25 PM
I will consider your suggestion .. but I will take long time to change my rubbers do you think the fxp will serve me as I improve on bh more than fxs ?

Personally, I could use FXP on both sides and be fine. If you look at my post above, Emmanuel Lebesson won the 2016 European Championships with FXP on both sides. If someone who is a top pro can use it, I have a feeling, anyone of the members on this forum would be fine with it.

Ultimately power shots are about technique and the power you put into your shots. Table Tennis is 99% technique and mental skills and 2% equipment.

I have a friend who is a pro tennis player (not table tennis). In table tennis, he is a pretty high level amateur. He uses Stiga Allround Classic blade (very slow) and Yasaka Mark V rubbers (pretty darn slow). Because his shots have so much power, he can still hit harder than most TT pros I know. Why is he not as good at TT as they are? His reading and understanding of spin and short game. But definitely it is not the power of his loops.

Yamen Raslan
10-19-2020, 07:29 PM
Personally, having felt both, I liked FXP considerably more than FXS because of how much more dynamic it is. But everyone is different. So I cannot say what you would like. Just that either FXP or FXS gives you the most chance of improving your skills with your BH whereas any of the harder (also faster rubbers [E or M]) would make it harder for your BH to improve.

FXP gives you the ability to play a wider range of shots and it feels more alive. FXS is good for short game and when you drive or loop the ball, you have to put more effort in to get the output you are looking for. Because FXP has more catapult, it makes it so you can have a much wider range of offensive shots rather than all or nothing.
i know iam taking your time .. but is the only difference is that fxs harder and faster?
I think iam taking your opinion and have the fxp
and should i get the max thick for mxp and fxp?

UpSideDownCarl
10-19-2020, 07:37 PM
i know iam taking your time .. but is the only difference is that fxs harder and faster?
and should get the max thick for mxp and fxs?

FXS has a different kind of sponge than FXP. The sponge on FXS is designed not to give as much catapult effect so that it is a little more like Chinese sponge (not exactly but a little). FXP has a sponge that has a lot more catapult.

That means, to get something out of a loop with FXS you have to work harder. When you do, you are rewarded. With FXP, you can get something out of working softer or working harder.

I would say that kind of sponge that gives you less catapult is better for a bigger stroke like the FH. And for you, with the FH, you may want the M version if you want the kind of sponge that forces you to work at max output for every FH stroke.

Whereas, I would not really want that with BH. Especially if you are trying to learn. The sponge with less catapult will limit what you can learn a little more than the sponge with catapult.

So, no, the difference between the sponge in P and S in the evolution rubbers is NOT the hardness. It is a different kind of sponge.

Should you get Max thickness? Again, to really answer your questions, I would need to see you play. Feel free to post footage. But if you are wanting and trying to learn to spin the hell out of the ball on topspin shots, it would make sense to use Max. So you can decide how to interpret that.

In the end, still, in my opinion, for YOU, based on you saying your BH needs work, the most important issue is that the BH rubber starts with F. :)

BryanY
10-19-2020, 09:23 PM
This article gives a decent overview of each rubber in the Evolution series and helps to explain the differences.


https://blog.tabletennis11.com/tibhar-evolution-series-table-tennis-rubbers-review

Yamen Raslan
10-28-2020, 10:56 PM
FXS has a different kind of sponge than FXP. The sponge on FXS is designed not to give as much catapult effect so that it is a little more like Chinese sponge (not exactly but a little). FXP has a sponge that has a lot more catapult.

That means, to get something out of a loop with FXS you have to work harder. When you do, you are rewarded. With FXP, you can get something out of working softer or working harder.

I would say that kind of sponge that gives you less catapult is better for a bigger stroke like the FH. And for you, with the FH, you may want the M version if you want the kind of sponge that forces you to work at max output for every FH stroke.

Whereas, I would not really want that with BH. Especially if you are trying to learn. The sponge with less catapult will limit what you can learn a little more than the sponge with catapult.

So, no, the difference between the sponge in P and S in the evolution rubbers is NOT the hardness. It is a different kind of sponge.

Should you get Max thickness? Again, to really answer your questions, I would need to see you play. Feel free to post footage. But if you are wanting and trying to learn to spin the hell out of the ball on topspin shots, it would make sense to use Max. So you can decide how to interpret that.

In the end, still, in my opinion, for YOU, based on you saying your BH needs work, the most important issue is that the BH rubber starts with F. :)
after your advice iam gonna order xiom offensive s blade
fxp ( 2.1 -2.2 mm) on bh
mxp (1.9 -2.0 mm) on fh
but I heard that mxp is for advanced players and it's hard to have spinny balls since it is very fast
is that true ? or can I with training get along with it ?
iam thinking about els as a safer choice and it has very good reviews instead of mxp on fh
what is your opinion ?
about the thicknesses (max for bh and medium for fh) are they ok ? or both medium as a safe choice ?
I really appreciate your help

UpSideDownCarl
10-29-2020, 01:50 AM
after your advice iam gonna order xiom offensive s blade
fxp ( 2.1 -2.2 mm) on bh
mxp (1.9 -2.0 mm) on fh
but I heard that mxp is for advanced players and it's hard to have spinny balls since it is very fast
is that true ? or can I with training get along with it ?
iam thinking about els as a safer choice and it has very good reviews instead of mxp on fh
what is your opinion ?
about the thicknesses (max for bh and medium for fh) are they ok ? or both medium as a safe choice ?
I really appreciate your help

Got any footage of yourself playing? If you do, I can give an answer I feel comfortable with.

If you are "intermediate" or, what my conception of "intermediate" means, then I would say MXP will be fine and get MAX on both wings. I found MXP an extremely easy rubber to use. But....we may not mean the same thing when we use the word "intermediate".

I do find there are reasons, if your game is about heavy topspin.....spinning the hell out of the ball....then MAX is worthwhile. If you do something other than what I described but are trying to learn to loop HEAVY TOPSPIN, then MAX is still usually what you want, depending on your skill level. If you are very advanced....or very low level.....then there are scenarios where thinner sponge makes sense for a topspin player.

But, not everyone agrees with my way of thinking. I take solace in the fact that Werner Schlager agrees with me. :)