Which short pips for middle distance and can short pips broke?

to play away from the table requires short pips that are faster and can give more spin, such as TSP Spinpips Red, Butterfly Impartial XS, Nittaku Moristo SP AX, Victas VO> 102, Yasaka Rakza PO, etc. a thicker sponge will also help a lot.


short pips rubbers also need to be changed, not as often as backside, but should. because the pips can become frictionless.
if you forgot the racket in the hot car it can't be good for the rubbers

If the ball is lower than the highest point you can play with a shoe and get the same result.

From my own recent personal experiences I would say the blade is the absolute biggest factor in short pip use.

I have tried about 9 or 10 different 7 ply woods, a couple of carbon blades and several 5 ply woods.
If you want to attack with the pips you absolutely need a harder or stiffer or both type blade.

The carbons can be good if you like a carbon fh.
The 7 plys IMO are much better but you need a stiff or hard outer ply, to really boom a few short pip winners.

Since trying Sanwei fextra and Xiom Solo my pip hitting has gone up a level, I can even do a pseudo loop with the pips off the right ball.

I find the Fextra messes up my fh too much, but the Xiom Solo still is great for looping. It is a bit fast for my fh, but the Koto outer seems to work fantastically for my pip hitting.

Answering your question, should you not try and step forward to play your pip shot with bh, or twiddle or try and cover the mid distance with your fh. Or try and play closer to the table.

You have to stay close to the table with SP. It doesn't matter which ones you use, if you get pushed back you are going to have trouble.

I am playing short pips backhand (Nittaku Moristo SP max, before I played Yasaka Rakza PO 2.0mm, and I've also tried Yinhe Uranus Pro Medium max and Yinhe Pluto 1.5mm). My baseline forehand is Nittaku FastArc G1 max, I've also played with Yasaka Rakza (Soft), DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, and Yinhe Sun max.
For blades I've tried about 10+ different ones, innerforce, external, 5-ply, 7-ply. I try to copy Mima Ito (who is able to do miracles with the Moristo SP from various distances mostly close to the table).

My conclusion so far is that while the various carbon blades are fun and fast I get the best results with the Sanwei Fextra ($20 at princett) and also I start to like the Yinhe Pro W5 and Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 which has been positively reviewed by yogi_bear 5 years ago. I am finding that I can play with just about every rubber combination (short pips b/h) and blade after some adjustment. For close to the table the innerforce Koto top variety (Yinhe Pro Feeling) works but not as well as the softer top wood (limba, hinoki, even the harder walnut) blades with or without carbon.

Obviously once you are more than 6 feet behind the table you need to chop the backhand or twiddle the racket and play backhand topspin with the forehand rubber. So the key is to stay closer to the table and do a compact top spin like Mima Ito or other short pips backhand players. Or learn to move back and forth quickly like Hou Yingchao. My coach has moved me to a compact backhand and also a more textbook topspin with a compact motion.

Also there are lots of short pips b/h resources on YouTube to learn from. I liked:

• bbaerong-e yorong-e TV, very detailed explanations, in Korean with subtitles, Table Tennis Lesson Short Pips and How to Use, Table tennis lesson forehand front short-pips. She goes into great detail even for the various backhand short pips rubbers.
  
• Maxim Cerepnin: Short pips VS Inverted rubber, what is better for which play? Об игре короткими шипами
• How to play SHORT PIPS - Technique, Tactics | MLFM Table Tennis Tutorial

• YangYangTT: How a Short Pips Player Play Against Topspin Ball [From Vicky Jiao], Vicky Jiao’s best game in the USA - 2019 NCTTA Women’s Final.

MOG said:

From my own recent personal experiences I would say the blade is the absolute biggest factor in short pip use.

I have tried about 9 or 10 different 7 ply woods, a couple of carbon blades and several 5 ply woods.
If you want to attack with the pips you absolutely need a harder or stiffer or both type blade.

The carbons can be good if you like a carbon fh.
The 7 plys IMO are much better but you need a stiff or hard outer ply, to really boom a few short pip winners.

Since trying Sanwei fextra and Xiom Solo my pip hitting has gone up a level, I can even do a pseudo loop with the pips off the right ball.

I find the Fextra messes up my fh too much, but the Xiom Solo still is great for looping. It is a bit fast for my fh, but the Koto outer seems to work fantastically for my pip hitting.

Answering your question, should you not try and step forward to play your pip shot with bh, or twiddle or try and cover the mid distance with your fh. Or try and play closer to the table.

Click to expand...

If you want pips to loop with yet insensitive to service spin, MOG knows best.

Lula said:

If the ball is lower than the highest point you can play with a shoe and get the same result.

Click to expand...

I can't agree with that at all.
yes, it is always easiest and best to hit the ball at the highest point, but it is not true that it is not possible to play a quality shot, before or after the highest point. as long as the ball is above the level of the net, a quality shot can be played with almost any short pips, and with some short pips it is possible to play even when it falls below the level of the table.

lasta said:

If you want pips to loop with yet insensitive to service spin, MOG knows best.

Click to expand...

Bit harsh lasta?

I am not advising anyone does that, I just get away with it a bit sometimes! Plus I use mid pips!!

ejprinz said:

My conclusion so far is that while the various carbon blades are fun and fast I get the best results with the Sanwei Fextra ($20 at princett) and also I start to like the Yinhe Pro W5 and Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 which has been positively reviewed by yogi_bear 5 years ago. I am finding that I can play with just about every rubber combination (short pips b/h) and blade after some adjustment. For close to the table the innerforce Koto top variety (Yinhe Pro Feeling) works but not as well as the softer top wood (limba, hinoki, even the harder walnut) blades with or without carbon.

Click to expand...

Hey EJP, what fh rubber do you use with the fextra?
I like 05fx but I am finding it hard to control on Fextra, so I tried dropping too 1.9 and that is a bit too thin on Fextra I think.

I agree even mid pips are quite excellent on this blade on bh. I just need to get a bit more control of that fh.

MOG said:

Hey EJP, what fh rubber do you use with the fextra?
I like 05fx but I am finding it hard to control on Fextra, so I tried dropping too 1.9 and that is a bit too thin on Fextra I think.

I agree even mid pips are quite excellent on this blade on bh. I just need to get a bit more control of that fh.

Click to expand...

The day before:

MOG said:

So last night I tried Rhyzer 43(2.0mm) and Tenergy 05fx (1.9mm).
...
Carl if I ever ask about a different ESN rubber on the forum again please give me 2 week automatic ban without trial!!

Click to expand...

lasta said:

If you want pips to loop with yet insensitive to service spin, MOG knows best.

Click to expand...

This is a fallacy I see so many times on these forums.
How does the rubber know when to react to spin and when not too?
No one has answered this question with anything but yet another opinion.
When playing with short pips it is best to stay at the table. If away from the table then chop block or chop. You can chop with short pips and get more spin than the choppers do with their long pips but then you must compensate for incoming spin.

When close to the table you must decide on when to hit the ball. Don't let the ball go to high unless you plan for a kill shot. If you let the ball go too high and don't make a kill shot the ball will bounce about 80% up from the height you hit it an that will be too high. It may bounce higher if you are hitting the ball down at the table. The ball should be at its maximum height as it travels over the net. You must to keep the ball low. Hitting the ball almost horizontally when the ball bounce up does two things. One is that it doesn't give the opponent, or you, much time to react. Second the will not bounce high.

I played a lot with 802-40 1.8mm and 802 1.5 mm. I don't see the point in playing with anything that claims to be spinier than 802-40 because then I should be playing with inverted. 2 of my 3 practice partners use SP. One uses TSP spin pips on a c-pen and the other uses 802-40 1.8 mm. The don't loop with their pips. Then flat hit and seem to make impossible line of sight shots.

7sagittarius7 said:

I can't agree with that at all.
yes, it is always easiest and best to hit the ball at the highest point, but it is not true that it is not possible to play a quality shot, before or after the highest point. as long as the ball is above the level of the net, a quality shot can be played with almost any short pips, and with some short pips it is possible to play even when it falls below the level of the table.

Click to expand...

I disagree with the word ALWAYS. It is good to hit at the highest point when going for kill shots but you must remember that the ball will always bounce up about 80% of the height you hit it if you hit the ball horizontally. Usually you are hitting the ball down into the table so it will bounce up higher than 80%.

Yes, agree! My point was that attacking with short pimple mid distance where the ball many times is pretty low is not a good idea

@MOG: I started with Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft, then I went to Rakza 7 (all 2mm), with Rakza PO backhand (also 2mm).
Then I switched to Nittaku FastArc-G1 and Nittaku Moristo SP (max thickness). FastArc-G1 creates a little more spin but not dramatically more.
I found that Moristo SP is a little less sensitive to incoming spin compared to Rakza PO. My point was that for close to max. thickness (2mm or max) horizontal or vertical short pips (I assume the Rakza PO is more like spin-pips but the Nittaku Moristo SP is a little less spinny) I can handle the difference between the rubbers.
So my box is pretty small for the rubbers. Short pips, close to max thickness on a blade more like traditional 5-ply or Fextra 7-ply (although it is pretty fast for 7-ply), rather than using a faster "external" carbon blade. I think this is basically what Mima Ito has been using until she went to a more tacky forehand rubber. She is using a faster blade but she also has a much faster brain and faster legs so this is just basic scaling .

Also I think at my level (US ~1200) and age (60) it is better to not go with too fast a blade, I like the Fextra and the (yogi_bear-recommended 5 years ago) Yinhe Pro-5W. Having said that, at the San Antonio Open on Nov. 14th I'll play the Fextra.

brokenball said:

I disagree with the word ALWAYS. It is good to hit at the highest point when going for kill shots but you must remember that the ball will always bounce up about 80% of the height you hit it if you hit the ball horizontally. Usually you are hitting the ball down into the table so it will bounce up higher than 80%.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with that.

brokenball said:

I played a lot with 802-40 1.8mm and 802 1.5 mm. I don't see the point in playing with anything that claims to be spinier than 802-40 because then I should be playing with inverted. 2 of my 3 practice partners use SP. One uses TSP spin pips on a c-pen and the other uses 802-40 1.8 mm. The don't loop with their pips. Then flat hit and seem to make impossible line of sight shots.

Click to expand...

I was thinking exactly the same thing until I tried playing for a while with spinier and faster SP. And there was always the dilemma of whether to switch to inverted.
But you always have to know first what you want to achieve with the SP. If you just want to slow down the game or put constant pressing on the opponent and then which type of pressing, get the ability to easily return the spin, the ability to attack backspin not only with a straight shot but also with a flip, get max deception, create dead knuckle ball, wobbly shots...
Definitely all of the above cannot be achieved with the same SP, so you first need to decide what you want and choose a rubber accordingly.
With spinier SP, if you are sometimes late with your feet, and the ball is not directly in front of you (I am talking about BH SP shots), you can use your wrist and return the ball. It's much easier to return an opponent's backspin with spinier SP. Also perform banana and strawberry flip and all strokes that can be done with inverted rubber, but still keep the good sides of the SP and the ability to easier hit through the ball, less sensitivity to incoming spin...

@MOG another tidbit from the Yinhe Sun review at https://revspin.net/rubber/yinhe-galaxy-sun.html:
"Non-tacky Galaxy rubbers compared:
- Galaxy Moon, High throw, offensive rubber, comparable with Butterfly Tenergy 05!
- Galaxy Sun, Lower throw, close to table attack, comparable with Butterfly Tenergy 25!
- Galaxy Mars V2, Lowest throw, offensive rubber, controlled version of Butterfly Tenergy 64!"


If you play Tenergy 05fx you are probably in the high throw regime. I think the FastArc-G1 is more like the Yinhe Sun and that's what I saw too (I never played Tenergy 05 but I am treating myself to FastArc-G1 (4 for 3 at tt11) and Sun ($11.90 at princett-with glue !!). So when I use the Fextra with FastArc-G1 I can still spin pretty well (compact at the table which I need for the short pips backhand) but I noticed if I go to a faster blade (e.g. Hinoki/Carbon varieties) the spinning with the same rubber doesn't work as predictably because I am too slow to get to the ball. So for a given blade I think the rubber throw needs to be adjusted, or (like Emrat Thich states) start with a slower blade and adjust the rubber. What I found fascinating is that I got myself a high performance backhand short pips blade (Yinhe Pro-5W + Sun + Uranus Pro) for < $50 + shipping.

The differentiator for me was taking more lessons as my topspin was very bad. This is more expensive though compared to buying a slower blade/rubber but more satisfying and better for my back.

Pips

Marťa Sobková said:

Hello,

please can someone advice me. I have two questions. I am using short pips, but often happend, that after my forhand topspin on right side, i am bit far away from the table and then I have a bit problem with playing the ball. Is any short pips good for this? I am now using Materialspecialist burnout 2.0. Or would be better solution for m any slow soft? I am playing with short pips some years, but this i found as a problem.
My second question is, my short pips are 8 months old and somtetimes happend, that when i play ball it goes directly to the net, like if my opponent would chop the ball, but he doesnt. Can my rubber be broken - also in summer I have forgotten my rocket sometimes in the car.

Thank you very much!

Click to expand...

Burnout is the same brand as breakout so I think that pips doesnt last ,the pips become slippery and the balls sinks because the arc is low not because the pip is slow

Mid distance must be medium arc spinny short pips
My advice
Victas 102
Waran
Moristo ax
Baxter F1A