Difference between hard european and chinese rubber??

CamperBel · Nov 15, 2020

what is the difference between hard european rubbers and chinese rubbers? for example between Rasanter 53 or mx p hard and the Hurricane 3 Neo 40 provincial?

in theory they have about the same degrees of hardness.

merlin el mago · Nov 15, 2020

I guess the rubber's quality.

zeio · Nov 15, 2020

As Jintaku points out, they are fundamentally different despite the similar hardness in recent models.

Classic Chinese tacky rubbers come with a sponge that's essentially a piece of solid rubber, whereas Japanese/German tacky rubbers come with a sponge that's expanded rubber filled with air. This inherent difference gives the former a set of unique characteristics that is not reproducible in the latter.

As for Japanese/German grippy rubbers...

brokenball · Nov 15, 2020

zeio said:
Classic Chinese tacky rubbers come with a sponge that's essentially a piece of solid rubber,

not quite but close.

whereas Japanese/German tacky rubbers come with a sponge that's expanded rubber filled with air.

not expanded but the ESN sponges do have a greater percentage of air pockets relative to the rest of the sponge.

Zeio is coming around. Consistent size air pockets is the key to springy sponge.

My company use to make a part that was critical to the motion of a cutting knife and it used rubber. Even though there was a recipe for making the rubber it seemed to be difficult for the rubber miller to make good rubber consistently. My first sheet of Apollo was very good and extremely tacky. My second sheet of Apollo was dead and not very tacky at all. My point is that is is difficult to make things like sponge and rubber that is consistent from one batch to the next however, my experience is that the JP and ESN rubbers tend to be very consistent.

BTW, the old rubber parts for cutting were replaced by servo motors. The rubber millers lost our business.

IB66 · Nov 15, 2020

Anywhere between 20 to 50 € / $ / ¥ / £ !!!! ( unless you include H3 provincial and National versions!!!)

BryanY · Nov 15, 2020

The topsheet is completely different. The tacky topsheets slow the ball down. The non-tacky topsheets don’t grab the ball as much when brushing. Also the tacky topsheets tend to be harder and less bouncy.

As mentioned earlier there is also a difference in the sponge construction and behavior.

I would actually say that the price is similar between Rasanter R53 and H3 National.

IB66 · Nov 15, 2020

BryanY said:
The topsheet is completely different. The tacky topsheets slow the ball down. The non-tacky topsheets don’t grab the ball as much when brushing. Also the tacky topsheets tend to be harder and less bouncy.

As mentioned earlier there is also a difference in the sponge construction and behavior.

I would actually say that the price is similar between Rasanter R53 and H3 National.

Generally, Chinese rubbers are cheaper, H3 Nat Blue sponge is usually more expensive than R53/R48 & Dignics
orange sponge H3 Nat cheaper than Dignics, more expensive than R53/R48
Provincial versions around the same price maybe slightly cheaper..Other brands such as Yinhe, friendship, etc are usually much cheaper than ESN rubbers. 50% + cheaper, £10 cheap Chinese rubber, £20 for a cheap ESN and that’s pushing it!! £18 - 25 for Std H3, £40+ for average ESN

yogi_bear · Nov 15, 2020

H3 has lesser speed even when boosted compared to esn rubbers.

brokenball · Nov 15, 2020

yogi_bear said:
H3 has lesser speed even when boosted compared to esn rubbers.

Yes, but that isn't an issue for well trained athlete. The slower speed results in a higher spin to speed ratio or "throw angle". It is also possible to generate slow but slow but tight spinny loops when you brush.

I use to think H3 was fast enough even without boosting by now my old right shoulder disagrees.
There is no magic in Chinese rubbers. They require more effort to get the same result but they also are a little better for brushing because of the tacky top sheet, The tacky top sheet will grip when the normal top sheet will not.

I normally play with Rakza 7 2mm now. I like it a lot but sometimes when I brush to thin the ball seems to slide off my rubber. This happens sometimes when looping but more often when returning serves because the force of impact and coefficient of friction are low which means the tangential force is low or not enough.

ChinaMonDon · Nov 16, 2020

Chinese rubber more tacky than grippy euro rubber tend to be more bouncy, responsive and in my opinion less work more output as in average strength shot equals stronger spin and speed but with Chinese rubber same average strength shot would produce a slower and less spinnier more dead feeling shot
But the positive in Chinese rubber is is you play a stronger shot it does not cap off as euro rubber does the stronger the shot the faster and spinnier it becomes. Chinese rubber tend to force you to make better shots and involve your body more and has more gears slower is slower faster is faster. European rubber tend to be more responsive overall due to it being more bouncy on passive shots. If you aren't physically able as in being older or due to injury's euro rubber allows you to play better than Chinese rubber due to the fact it does some of the work for you, you do less and produce more and the latter makes you do more for same quality shot but has no cap if you do more you get even better shot
Sorry if it sound repeative

BryanY · Nov 16, 2020

brokenball said:
Yes, but that isn't an issue for well trained athlete. The slower speed results in a higher spin to speed ratio or "throw angle". It is also possible to generate slow but slow but tight spinny loops when you brush.

I use to think H3 was fast enough even without boosting by now my old right shoulder disagrees.
There is no magic in Chinese rubbers. They require more effort to get the same result but they also are a little better for brushing because of the tacky top sheet, The tacky top sheet will grip when the normal top sheet will not.

I normally play with Rakza 7 2mm now. I like it a lot but sometimes when I brush to thin the ball seems to slide off my rubber. This happens sometimes when looping but more often when returning serves because the force of impact and coefficient of friction are low which means the tangential force is low or not enough.

Maybe time to switch tia semi-tacky hybrid rubber...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yogi_bear · Nov 16, 2020

brokenball said:
Yes, but that isn't an issue for well trained athlete. The slower speed results in a higher spin to speed ratio or "throw angle". It is also possible to generate slow but slow but tight spinny loops when you brush.

I use to think H3 was fast enough even without boosting by now my old right shoulder disagrees.
There is no magic in Chinese rubbers. They require more effort to get the same result but they also are a little better for brushing because of the tacky top sheet, The tacky top sheet will grip when the normal top sheet will not.

I normally play with Rakza 7 2mm now. I like it a lot but sometimes when I brush to thin the ball seems to slide off my rubber. This happens sometimes when looping but more often when returning serves because the force of impact and coefficient of friction are low which means the tangential force is low or not enough.

The user is not the issue. The op was only asking for comparisons between rubbers. I am a hurricane 3 user for almost 20 yrs. I know what h3 is capable. And yes, i am trained.

CamperBel · Nov 16, 2020

why do you play with chinese rubbers?

yogi_bear · Nov 16, 2020

Because it is fun to put tons of spin in your loops and lets you do full swings near the table more compared to esn rubbers.

Kuba Hajto · Nov 16, 2020

CamperBel said:
why do you play with chinese rubbers?

It feels good. Thin brushing with tacky FH rubber feel is unmistakable and not present in other rubber types. It feels as if you were dragging the ball with your hand.

merlin el mago · Nov 16, 2020

yogi_bear said:
H3 has lesser speed even when boosted compared to esn rubbers.

Not really true, H3 same or more speed the only difference H3 gets speed with spin, flat hitting don't have speed right.

merlin el mago · Nov 16, 2020

H3 don't have spring sponge so you must do all the work.

Tango K · Nov 16, 2020

CamperBel said:
why do you play with chinese rubbers?

(I’m relatively a beginner, I’m trained but not “well”

)

It’s a combination of tackiness and not-too-springy-sponge. With H3, Spin and speed are relatively independent in your stroke and you do not need to be too careful with your power. A bouncy rubber forces you to be a little self-constraint & also to trade among speed-spin-control all the time. Additionally, for a beginner, a Chinese rubber punishes you if you are not relaxing enough (and hence your body would not be well coordinated), speeding up your development.

brokenball · Nov 16, 2020

Tango K said:
With H3, Spin and speed are relatively independent in your stroke and you do not need to be too careful with your power.

WTF?
The speed and spin is very dependent on the stroke no matter which rubber you use.

A bouncy rubber forces you to be a little self-constraint & also to trade among speed-spin-control all the time.

Rubbers with higher coefficients of restitution will cause little errors in stroke to result in bigger errors in trajectory.

Additionally, for a beginner, a Chinese rubber punishes you if you are not relaxing enough (and hence your body would not be well coordinated), speeding up your development.

The rubber doesn't care how relaxed you are. It only cares about the stroke and the resulting force applied or impulse. Your muscles will care when they get tired or start aching. Then your strokes will suffer

merlin el mago · Nov 17, 2020

Tango K said:
(I’m relatively a beginner, I’m trained but not “well” )

It’s a combination of tackiness and not-too-springy-sponge. With H3, Spin and speed are relatively independent in your stroke and you do not need to be too careful with your power. A bouncy rubber forces you to be a little self-constraint & also to trade among speed-spin-control all the time. Additionally, for a beginner, a Chinese rubber punishes you if you are not relaxing enough (and hence your body would not be well coordinated), speeding up your development.

No, spin & speed works togheter, flat hitting yes H3 has less speed, simply look chinese NT players when are smashing change the rubber side to hit with the red one.

Difference between hard european and chinese rubber??

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