How does thickness of the table matter?

Hamasaki_Fanz · Dec 31, 2020

The rule only states: The playing surface may be of any material and shall yield a uniform bounce of about 23cm when a standard ball is dropped on to it from a height of 30cm.

There are various thicknesses ranging from 15-25mm thickness. I've played with various thickness and I can feel that the thicker the table, the more solid and uniform the bounces on the table... but I dont understand why. I thought if 23cm height bounce is achieved, then the table should feel the same no matter what the thickness is.

Can experts here explain why? Thanks.

brokenball · Jan 1, 2021

You are right. As long as the proper bounce is achieved it makes no difference but, over time a thicker table will not warp. However, there is no reason why a thinner table can be made so it doesn't warp with the proper supports or bracing underneath.

There will be people that say the bounce will be higher if the table has more mass. That is true in theory. However, the mass of the table is so great relative to that of the ball that the differences would be hard to measure. I would be more concerned about having a constant density or mass over the whole table so the bounce is more consistent not matter where it lands. At this time no one has taken any measurements or done any test that verify that the bounce will be consistent over the whole table.

What you feel doesn't matter. What matters is what you can measure.

yogi_bear · Jan 1, 2021

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
The rule only states: The playing surface may be of any material and shall yield a uniform bounce of about 23cm when a standard ball is dropped on to it from a height of 30cm.

There are various thicknesses ranging from 15-25mm thickness. I've played with various thickness and I can feel that the thicker the table, the more solid and uniform the bounces on the table... but I dont understand why. I thought if 23cm height bounce is achieved, then the table should feel the same no matter what the thickness is.

Can experts here explain why? Thanks.

It does matter, there are dull bounces on tables with 14mm top compared to tables having 25mm and above. It messes with your timing sometimes if you are in a tournamanent wherein you play with ittf tables and the next game it is a 14mm table. I have seen a lot of higher level players complain about this.

Hamasaki_Fanz · Jan 1, 2021

yogi_bear said:
It does matter, there are dull bounces on tables with 14mm top compared to tables having 25mm and above. It messes with your timing sometimes if you are in a tournamanent wherein you play with ittf tables and the next game it is a 14mm table. I have seen a lot of higher level players complain about this.

How can the bounce be dull when it's been tested that all surface bounce the ball 23 cm height?
assuming by dull you mean the ball bounces lower than what it should be

Hamasaki_Fanz · Jan 1, 2021

brokenball said:
You are right. As long as the proper bounce is achieved it makes no difference but, over time a thicker table will not warp. However, there is no reason why a thinner table can be made so it doesn't warp with the proper supports or bracing underneath.

Warp? can you explain what kind of warp exactly, and how can a table get warped?

yogi_bear · Jan 1, 2021

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
The rule only states: The playing surface may be of any material and shall yield a uniform bounce of about 23cm when a standard ball is dropped on to it from a height of 30cm.

There are various thicknesses ranging from 15-25mm thickness. I've played with various thickness and I can feel that the thicker the table, the more solid and uniform the bounces on the table... but I dont understand why. I thought if 23cm height bounce is achieved, then the table should feel the same no matter what the thickness is.

Can experts here explain why? Thanks.

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
How can the bounce be dull when it's been tested that all surface bounce the ball 23 cm height?
assuming by dull you mean the ball bounces lower than what it should be

14mm tables are not ittf approved. A lot of them do not have the 23cm bounce height.

pingpongpaddy · Jan 1, 2021

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
The rule only states: The playing surface may be of any material and shall yield a uniform bounce of about 23cm when a standard ball is dropped on to it from a height of 30cm.

There are various thicknesses ranging from 15-25mm thickness. I've played with various thickness and I can feel that the thicker the table, the more solid and uniform the bounces on the table... but I dont understand why. I thought if 23cm height bounce is achieved, then the table should feel the same no matter what the thickness is.

Can experts here explain why? Thanks.

the thicker the table, the more stiff and rigid it is and the higher the bounce of the ball. Cheap thin tables have a lower bounce.
in addition the thicker and stronger the table the longer it will last. One inch thick tables from 50+ years ago can still play well

Music&Ping · Jan 1, 2021

It has to do with the density/mass/weight ratio of the material used: yes of course a really dense 15mm thick table can produce stable bounces, but there will be less mass and weight than in a 25mm table using the exact same material, then the bounces might be more uniform.

Bear in mind that the worldwide known brands such as DHS, Donic, Cornilleau or Butterfly are hiring engineers who have a full and well documented education on physics fundamentals.

Bounce depends on all those 3 factors.
https://www.mometrix.com/academy/mass-weight-volume-density-and-specific-gravity/

IB66 · Jan 1, 2021

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
Warp? can you explain what kind of warp exactly, and how can a table get warped?

Tables can deform slightly or warp, this could be caused by an uneven floor, so when the table is set up the legs aren’t adjusted and maybe one leg isn’t tight to the ground. So the table sub-frame (if not robust enough) bends slightly. If this is repeated every time the table is set up then it’s possible that the table will eventually warp slightly.
there are also other factors that may cause the surface to deform, heat, sunlight, moisture, how the table is stored after play etc
As brokenball said, a thinner table will need more sub frame supports to ensure that its rigidity is maintained.

The Bounce Test I believe is a vertical drop test, there was a thread on here a while ago with a post (video teams type meeting) that had a discussion taking place with various ITTF representatives, they were more concerned about the surface finish of the tables manufacturers are using, paints etc.
A vertical bounce test can produce similar results regardless of the surface finish used. However, how many times does an incoming shot bounce vertically ?? Basically none !!! So in effect the test is, to a certain degree a poor test (with regard to how a ball bounces during actual play).
some finishes cause the ball to ‘skid’ or ‘slip’ across the surface, others the ball is able to get more ‘grip’ on the tables surface. So there are tables with low bounce and ones with high bounce etc, there’s a lot of inconsistencies between differing manufacturers tables.
There has been comments and complaints from the Pro’s about this.
I played at a club, where they had 3 different tables, you could notice the difference between each table.
I think ITTF are now looking into this, possibly devising a set of additional tests for bounce consistency for how the ball bounces from shots with spin on the ball etc. This could result in specific surface finishes being specified etc.

Hamasaki_Fanz · Jan 1, 2021

IB66 said:
Tables can deform slightly or warp, this could be caused by an uneven floor, so when the table is set up the legs aren’t adjusted and maybe one leg isn’t tight to the ground. So the table sub-frame (if not robust enough) bends slightly. If this is repeated every time the table is set up then it’s possible that the table will eventually warp slightly.
there are also other factors that may cause the surface to deform, heat, sunlight, moisture, how the table is stored after play etc
As brokenball said, a thinner table will need more sub frame supports to ensure that its rigidity is maintained.

The Bounce Test I believe is a vertical drop test, there was a thread on here a while ago with a post (video teams type meeting) that had a discussion taking place with various ITTF representatives, they were more concerned about the surface finish of the tables manufacturers are using, paints etc.
A vertical bounce test can produce similar results regardless of the surface finish used. However, how many times does an incoming shot bounce vertically ?? Basically none !!! So in effect the test is, to a certain degree a poor test (with regard to how a ball bounces during actual play).
some finishes cause the ball to ‘skid’ or ‘slip’ across the surface, others the ball is able to get more ‘grip’ on the tables surface. So there are tables with low bounce and ones with high bounce etc, there’s a lot of inconsistencies between differing manufacturers tables.
There has been comments and complaints from the Pro’s about this.
I played at a club, where they had 3 different tables, you could notice the difference between each table.
I think ITTF are now looking into this, possibly devising a set of additional tests for bounce consistency for how the ball bounces from shots with spin on the ball etc. This could result in specific surface finishes being specified etc.

Thank you for your clear explanation

Music&Ping said:
It has to do with the density/mass/weight ratio of the material used: yes of course a really dense 15mm thick table can produce stable bounces, but there will be less mass and weight than in a 25mm table using the exact same material, then the bounces might be more uniform.

pingpongpaddy said:
the thicker the table, the more stiff and rigid it is and the higher the bounce of the ball. Cheap thin tables have a lower bounce.
in addition the thicker and stronger the table the longer it will last. One inch thick tables from 50+ years ago can still play well

I see, so basically as long as 23cm bounce is fulfilled, it shouldn't matter that much, but more mass is preferred for more uniform bounces

brokenball · Jan 2, 2021

Hamasaki_Fanz said:
I see, so basically as long as 23cm bounce is fulfilled, it shouldn't matter that much, but more mass is preferred for more uniform bounces

The mass alone doesn't not mean the bounce will be uniform. The material makes a difference. Most tables are made of wood chips that are clued together then painted. I bought my table before I knew the difference. In the US it is hard to get a decent table for less than $1000 unless you buy a used one. The problem is where do you go to see all the tables side by side to make a comparison?

The table I have is a Stiga. I bought it from the Paddle Palace and it cost about $650 back in 2009. It sucks. The table is actually made by Escalade Sports and the quality is awful. The paint come off on the balls so white ball have a blue tint. The white striping affects the bounce. The white striping doesn't have the same coefficient of restitution or friction as the rest of the table. The table is warped or sags towards the middle of the net. I have a big carpenter's level and levels apps on my phone. It is impossible to get the table to be level every where. The slight sag is not really noticeable during normal play but it is when practicing serves. The balls tend to roll back to the net too much.

My table is OK for use with a robot or just casually hitting balls but it isn't very good otherwise. I don't like the DHS tables because the surface is too slick. The balls don't change speed or direction after the bounce when there is a lot of spin on them because the surface is so smooth or frictionless.

I really should buy another table. I think this is a topic that isn't covered enough. There aren't enough reviews of tables.

langel · Jan 2, 2021

Cheaper tables are made with wood chips boards, which are not uniform. The smaller the chips the better the uniformity. Chips boards have different inside density - higher near the surface and lower in the middle. That structure matters in real play and the thinner the board is the bigger the differences are.
Higher quality tables are made with MDF with very small particles and much more uniform density, but different manufacturers use different MDFs and all tables are different in real play, no matter how uniform the drop test is.
The table coating is another very important factor.
The floor type and floor coating matters too, as well as the tables' legs.
The simple drop test tells little.
Its the same with the specular gloss measurement - more glossy is not always more slippy.

IB66 · Jan 2, 2021

The table I have is a Sponeta Activeline S6-13i, 22mm thick chipboard surface. Green (Matt)
indoor use only table

Sponeta make tables for Stiga, Butterfly etc and also have their own brand. German company,
During the 1st lockdown, tables basically sold out worldwide for a short period, even any factory stock was bought up!! Factories were closed etc. I was lucky to get a table!!

This table plays very well, bounce is good and uniform. There is sometimes some ‘slip’ or ‘skid’ but I think this is more down to the robot throwing out the occasional ‘rogue’ ball. Quality is good overall, it’s easy to fold up and the chassis is robust enough for home use.
it came supplied with a quality net set, the table assembly was easy to follow and straightforward with good instructions.

The Table is set up in a garage, so it’s dry enough, the 1/2 with the robot attached, is set with a slight (minimal) fall, from the net back towards the robot and catch net to help feed the balls back to the robot.

I’ve had this table for about 6 months which is a fairly short period, at present I’m very satisfied with the table.
time will show how durable this product is!!

How does thickness of the table matter?

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