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Николай Петров
02-07-2021, 09:01 AM
Hello guys I want to ask yday I filmed my self train and I think I am not dropping my elbow enough while forehand topspining and it appears like my form is kinda stiff what do you think about my form?

https://youtu.be/4Lc2FonverA

Takkyu_wa_inochi
02-07-2021, 09:27 AM
i don't think the form is particularly bad, it looks ok to me. maybe you are overthinking it

the main impression that i have is that you are not pushing yourself hard enough. you are young, you should try to be much more dynamic with your footwork, bounce after hitting the ball, and try to use more your body to give more of a forward impulse. that will also ensure you don't have your body weight on your heels and lose a bit your balance.

you should be sweating like crazy. it looks like you train like a 60 year old.

Николай Петров
02-07-2021, 09:37 AM
I understand I will try to do that footwork is hard I am training from one year and tbh I find footwork the most difficult from everything else I will try to move more thanks for the reply.

latej
02-07-2021, 10:36 AM
Hi Nikolai, the feeling of stiffness comes when the only thing we move is the arm, by using mostly shoulder muscles. There is opposite extreme, see the toy at 3:24 in this video. And 8:05-8:26 - the arm should not try to do anything while swinging. HTH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL5CTIoHY5U

Tango K
02-07-2021, 01:16 PM
(1) Drop the shoulder. Make sure it's relaxed. You seem to lift the whole arm to catch the ball by lifting the shoulder. Try catching the height of the ball by tiny adjustments with the elbow and the body height (legs) instead. (Ideally the mid-body is in line with the ball, otherwise at least find where the elbow should be)
(2) Finish the stroke properly before you move or get ready again. Sometimes you start moving while you haven't finished the weight transfer. And you tend to stop short the weight transfer too hard. If you feel like it takes energy to pull yourself back to ready position then you haven't finished the stroke. It should be easy and relaxed.
(3) This one you seem start fixing it in the end, with some high balls. Don't close your bat too much otherwise it's difficult to spin. Try using the spin to dip the ball.

Der_Echte
02-07-2021, 01:52 PM
I think Tango's first observation is the most important one. OP is almost jamming the shoulder into head on shots. There is no way to be powerful or spinny or very consistent on anything stronger than a bunt doing that.

There may be reasons why, but also, OP is not using the legs and hips much. Even on shots Koreans call for using "short hip", there is a timing/rhythm to it and a minor explosion. I think OP could generate a LOT more power and spin, but is sequencing things.

Don't sweat it, just do your best to be loose and let each part of the chain sequence do its thing. Later, on some shots, you will feel if you got some or all of it right. From there you improve.Being loose is a base, later, when you have better feel and control over your explosion, you will know when/how to add more explosion.

Maybe if you quit jamming up your shoulder, the rest of it starts OK... but from the clip I see, OP is not initiating much energy with leg/hip. What little is generated, is getting stopped at shoulder.

UpSideDownCarl
02-07-2021, 01:59 PM
Yeah. I think the legs are a good part of the issue. When your feet are better placed, your stroke is more solid.

Drop racket: when you are hitting against heavy topspin, you want to keep the racket high like that. You are not facing heavy topspin. But it is harder to get the racket up there than to learn to let the racket drop. So, I would not worry about this for now. You should not worry about what the stroke looks like too much. Keep practicing, keep training. If you are working with a coach, he will help you improve and a lot of the improvement will come with good practices.

UpSideDownCarl
02-07-2021, 02:10 PM
I think Tango's first observation is the most important one. OP is almost jamming the shoulder into head on shots. There is no way to be powerful or spinny or very consistent on anything stronger than a bunt doing that.

There may be reasons why, but also, OP is not using the legs and hips much. Even on shots Koreans call for using "short hip", there is a timing/rhythm to it and a minor explosion. I think OP could generate a LOT more power and spin, but is sequencing things.

Don't sweat it, just do your best to be loose and let each part of the chain sequence do its thing. Later, on some shots, you will feel if you got some or all of it right. From there you improve.Being loose is a base, later, when you have better feel and control over your explosion, you will know when/how to add more explosion.

Maybe if you quit jamming up your shoulder, the rest of it starts OK... but from the clip I see, OP is not initiating much energy with leg/hip. What little is generated, is getting stopped at shoulder.
And I think, some of the stuff Der is talking about could be taken care of with Shadow Stroke/Footwork practice in front of a mirror. It would be worth doing this and just really getting the feeling of the footwork, the stroke, the timing of the body all in rhythm so you are able to do the movement without thinking about it. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling a certain amount of Shadow Stroke + Footwork practice of the drill you are trying and/or the Falkenberg, would improve your performance in this drill.

Shifu
02-07-2021, 02:48 PM
It looks a bit like you're holding back with your forehand. Try to go more into the ball and also move your arm and hip simultaneously. Practice that by throwing a medicine ball to the wall mainly using your body's rotation.

Николай Петров
02-07-2021, 04:24 PM
Alright guys thanks for all the replys and I will try to work on everything you guys suggested and try to play slower until I fix the form.

Jim
02-10-2021, 03:12 PM
I think 10,000+ balls in front of a robot, hitting them as hard as you can, but landing them on a the table would be lower priority.

This would learn you weight transfer, follow through and some explosiveness., Judging by the video you seem a bit insecure and almost afraid of the ball, maybe overthinking your technique? This would also build you some muscles.

Der_Echte
02-11-2021, 02:05 PM
One issue with practicing same shot over and over alone is that if the biomechanics are not well, the player ends up worse off in that it is now harder to fix things.

It is also possible with this approach to be open and try a few variables and see what feels how and try to repeat it.

Tango K
02-11-2021, 02:21 PM
One issue with practicing same shot over and over alone is that if the biomechanics are not well, the player ends up worse off in that it is now harder to fix things.

It is also possible with this approach to be open and try a few variables and see what feels how and try to repeat it.
That's the exact problem with using robot not knowing where to go. I've seen this again and again in my club. People set up the robot, put the power to very high, and try to overpower it. Some try to loop against backspin by maxing out everything and lifting a back-spin ball that goes far to 1/2 table away!!!!!! I'm not even sure if Joo Sae-hyuk could make that chop.

When I still used a robot, I tried to make sure it gave as little power as possible so I gotta power/spin the ball properly. The basic shots were somewhat similar to Carl self-hit practise. (It was very difficult to set up a heavy backspin serve with little speed on a 20th century robot but that's what I did. 1/2 the balls went to the net, frustrating, but it's more realistic).

The higher power settings are probably only good for very high level players who know what their bodies are doing, so they can practise intensity / footwork etc. Otherwise if one's techniques are not even basic, try very low power and know exactly what one is fixing BEFORE starting.

Lula
02-11-2021, 04:14 PM
I agree with above that you look a bit tense and could relax a bit more. Maybe easier if you start with the hand? try to relax the grip a bit and the arm will become more relaxed as well. Good luck!

brokenball
02-12-2021, 05:14 PM
This is good for starters. I agree with the comments above. You are trying to look good for the camera.
I think it is better to watch actual play. It is too easy to anticipate when you know where and when the ball is coming.
Often you don't have time to take that step back to hit with your FH in actual play. The opponent will crowd your FH too.

maurice101
02-13-2021, 09:49 PM
Your backhand is all arm. Look at how the pros use their body to support the arm movement. They squat and rise up keeping the angle of their body the same against topspin for a off the bounce backhand. This allows a more relaxed and faster arm movement. For backhand against backspin they also do an unbowing movement to support a more vertical racket movement.

brokenball
02-14-2021, 04:07 AM
Your backhand is all arm......

Give him a break. He just trying to keep the ball on the table and not going for kill shots. How fast do you want him to hit the ball? If the OP was back from the table then I would agree that some body motion will be required but when trying to hit the ball close to the table at controlled speed I think the OP was doing OK.

maurice101
02-14-2021, 07:49 AM
He asked about his form. I see a key missing element in his backhand form so I made my comment. Adding some body movement to support the arm movement would improve the shot. I disagree with you that you only need to use your body in fast shots. I feel you should use your body in ALL shots and that you can also use your body in controlled slower shots. This will lead to more consistency with practice. If your body supports your arm movement the arm can be more relaxed leading to faster racket head speed. I see the pros their body in all shots, even in a backhand block.
How the pros support the arm movement with their bodies is one of the things that they do very well and I think most lower rank players can be poor in this area.

Николай Петров
02-14-2021, 09:43 AM
Your backhand is all arm. Look at how the pros use their body to support the arm movement. They squat and rise up keeping the angle of their body the same against topspin for a off the bounce backhand. This allows a more relaxed and faster arm movement. For backhand against backspin they also do an unbowing movement to support a more vertical racket movement.
I understand my friend I would really like my form to be like the pros and top china players but I am training from one year still trying to improve in every aspect of the game.

Der_Echte
02-14-2021, 09:51 AM
Short point: It can take a while before one "gets it" and performs at higher level... and many many months beofre that improvement will show up in tourney matches.

Another short point: In the early stages, dudes who finally got it, in the very beginning can look absolutely TERRIBLE, yet they can progress,

In the area of serving, I was exactly that and started at a USA club ave level. My first 30 minute session looked absolutely AWEFUL. if you were a spectator nearby the court and did NOT wear military grade ballistic eyewear, you were in serious danger of gettting maimed I was hitting so many ball off the end of bat. After 3-5 min of practice every day for a year, suddenly, I could serve short/heavy and I went up 2 levels instantly.

Stay with it.

Lula
02-14-2021, 02:53 PM
If you have trained only one year i think you are doing great! It will be easier to relax the longer you practice. Some motor control theories think that when doing pretty new stuff you tense more to be able to control the body and to be able to do the motion. With practice the body can be more relaxed.

Keep up the good work!

maurice101
02-14-2021, 08:35 PM
I agree that you are doing great after one year of training. As a qualified coach I try to teach the use of the body to beginners. Everyone teaches rotation for the forehand but many do not teach the body motion for the backhand. Its not too hard. You kind of squat and come up during the stroke. The timing can be a challenge at first but shadow swing it everyday. I did mention the pros but some things they do can be taught to beginners. Its much harder to add this when your muscle memory is set after a few years from missing an essential element in a stroke.