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View Full Version : Is 1 Ply Kiso Hinoki good with Short Pips?



PushSmasher
03-08-2021, 12:29 AM
I tried a year ago short pips on a Neubauer Titan combo blade, as I also play with long pips on the other side. I stopped as it felt like I had lost too much power, compared to my regular setup (1 Ply Kiso Hinoki with Calibra LT).

My question is: Would my 1 ply Kiso HInoki blade be good for short pips, or is it too soft. Everything I read says that short pips are best on a hard blade, and Kiso is not hard, but is fast. If other blades would be much faster, what do you think would be the fastest? The short pips I liked were Waran, as it suited my swing and seemed to be about the fastest to me.

Thanks for any help.

PushSmasher
03-08-2021, 12:37 AM
Sorry for the duplicate post. I can't figure out how to remove one, so if the mods could it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Lula
03-08-2021, 06:37 AM
How come you want a soft blade? Feel like if you push with long pimples close to the table and short pimple on the other side a rather hard blade would be good since the ball will leave the racket fast and hava lower arc. So would get much more pressure with harder blade, but maybe lose some control? I think if the arc is to high it will not benefit your style of play.

PushSmasher
03-08-2021, 11:29 AM
How come you want a soft blade? Feel like if you push with long pimples close to the table and short pimple on the other side a rather hard blade would be good since the ball will leave the racket fast and hava lower arc. So would get much more pressure with harder blade, but maybe lose some control? I think if the arc is to high it will not benefit your style of play.
It's not that I want a soft blade for short pips, it's that I already have one (1 ply kiso hinoki) and was just wondering if it is good or bad for short pips. If a hard blade will be faster and better suited for short pips, I will definitely get one.

Rinforzando
03-08-2021, 11:59 AM
Why don't you give it a try if you have already the 1 ply kiso Hinoki blade ? Nothing is impossible, for example the top player Mattias Falck plays with a limba outer blade with his shortpip in forehand.

Tinykin
03-08-2021, 12:10 PM
It's not that I want a soft blade for short pips, it's that I already have one (1 ply kiso hinoki) and was just wondering if it is good or bad for short pips. If a hard blade will be faster and better suited for short pips, I will definitely get one.
My setup at the time: American Hinoki WRC with Degu SP on the back.
I used this bat for a couple of years. I had my best ever results during this time.
I did not test the Degu with a harder/stiffer blade so I can't comment.
I only returned to inverted because I preferred the wider range of strokes and options that one gets with an inverted setup.

PushSmasher
03-08-2021, 01:52 PM
Why don't you give it a try if you have already the 1 ply kiso Hinoki blade ? Nothing is impossible, for example the top player Mattias Falck plays with a limba outer blade with his shortpip in forehand.

I did test it yesterday on a second 1 ply kiso hinoki blade I have. So I was able to play both of them, one after the other and found that the short pips were noticeably slower than my inverted on the same blade. So I guess I asked the wrong question. What I’m really wondering is would a different blade be much faster with short pips than my 1 ply Darker Speed 90? I figured that since it is an incredibly fast blade with inverted rubbers, it should be the same with short pips, but maybe not?

Rinforzando
03-08-2021, 03:01 PM
I did test it yesterday on a second 1 ply kiso hinoki blade I have. So I was able to play both of them, one after the other and found that the short pips were noticeably slower than my inverted on the same blade. So I guess I asked the wrong question. What I’m really wondering is would a different blade be much faster with short pips than my 1 ply Darker Speed 90? I figured that since it is an incredibly fast blade with inverted rubbers, it should be the same with short pips, but maybe not?
What's the name of the shortpips you played with yesterday ? 1 ply kiso hinoki blade are in general blazingly fast, and the Darker's blades are no exception from what I've heard. Perhaps the problem come from your shortpip.

PushSmasher
03-08-2021, 03:19 PM
What's the name of the shortpips you played with yesterday ? 1 ply kiso hinoki blade are in general blazingly fast, and the Darker's blades are no exception from what I've heard. Perhaps the problem come from your shortpip.

I tried a lot of different ones about 18 months ago, and settled on Waran as I found it to be the fastest, and with a throw angle good for me. So it was Waran I put on the 1 ply.

Rinforzando
03-08-2021, 03:34 PM
The problem doesn't come from the shortpip then. Maybe your technique which is not adapted to short pip ? Again I never tested your blade, but 1 ply blade are in general among the fastest blade you can find on the market.

yogi_bear
03-09-2021, 01:15 AM
If the 1 ply is about 9mm I do not think it is a problem.

PushSmasher
03-09-2021, 01:19 AM
If the 1 ply is about 9mm I do not think it is a problem.

It is 9mm. So are short pips just generally slower than a really fast rubber like Tenergy 64 or Claibra LT? I always hear about how ‘fast’ short pips are, but perhaps that’s just because you’re hitting it early off the bounce and close to the table, and at wide angles... If this is about as fast a setup as I can get, then I’ll probably stick with the inverted.

langel
03-09-2021, 05:30 AM
It is 9mm. So are short pips just generally slower than a really fast rubber like Tenergy 64 or Claibra LT? I always hear about how ‘fast’ short pips are, but perhaps that’s just because you’re hitting it early off the bounce and close to the table, and at wide angles... If this is about as fast a setup as I can get, then I’ll probably stick with the inverted.
T64 is a very springy rubber and it will be faster with softer touch and pushes. With blocks it will depend on the speed of the incoming ball you are blocking - the faster it is the higher the blocking speed of the SP will be compared to T64. The same with smashes - the harder you hit the faster the SP will be compared to T64.
Generally with both SP and T64 you have to hit near to the highest ball position - for T64 because it has flat trajectory and on the very stiff blade this trajectory will be even flatter unless you are a really very good looper, for SP because it's best for hit&smash.
When you take a descending ball with the SP you will be unable to apply the needed topspin to land it on the table with higher speed, so you have to hit slower and rely on gravity to land it.
So you have to concentrate on your style and what you need for that style, rather than looking for pure speed only. The max speed for your style will come with the proper set up, not with the generally fastest one.

Lula
03-09-2021, 06:24 AM
I think you need to generate much more own power with short pimple. Get much more help from inverted.

langel
03-09-2021, 06:59 AM
I think you need to generate much more own power with short pimple. Get much more help from inverted.
You get get help from the inverted rubber till it's trampoline is able to work.
With own power and swing acceleration while the ball is in contact the speed will be very close with any set up.
SP will exceed with stronger snap-smash hits.

thomas.pong
03-09-2021, 07:49 AM
I did test it yesterday on a second 1 ply kiso hinoki blade I have. So I was able to play both of them, one after the other and found that the short pips were noticeably slower than my inverted on the same blade. So I guess I asked the wrong question. What I’m really wondering is would a different blade be much faster with short pips than my 1 ply Darker Speed 90? I figured that since it is an incredibly fast blade with inverted rubbers, it should be the same with short pips, but maybe not?
I think you already sorta know the answer to your questions: It would be good to try your SP with a harder blade like a classic 7-ply (or a ALC carbon). While a one-ply hinoki is fast, it has a soft feel which works well with inverted, what most people seem to need with SP to work at full capacity is a hard feel to back it up.

thomas.pong
03-09-2021, 07:56 AM
It is 9mm. So are short pips just generally slower than a really fast rubber like Tenergy 64 or Claibra LT? I always hear about how ‘fast’ short pips are, but perhaps that’s just because you’re hitting it early off the bounce and close to the table, and at wide angles... If this is about as fast a setup as I can get, then I’ll probably stick with the inverted.
SP and fast inverted rubbers like T64 are fast in different ways. With the right setup, SP is going to be faster on flat hits. Rubbers like T64 will be fast for topspin, and faster than most other inverted for smashes.

yogi_bear
03-09-2021, 09:58 AM
It is 9mm. So are short pips just generally slower than a really fast rubber like Tenergy 64 or Claibra LT? I always hear about how ‘fast’ short pips are, but perhaps that’s just because you’re hitting it early off the bounce and close to the table, and at wide angles... If this is about as fast a setup as I can get, then I’ll probably stick with the inverted.
Short pips are less springy than inverted rubbers. They just look fast because they are used near the table and they contact the ball early or peak of the bounce.

PushSmasher
03-09-2021, 11:06 AM
Short pips are less springy than inverted rubbers. They just look fast because they are used near the table and they contact the ball early or peak of the bounce.
Pretty sure you just saved me from buying another blade... 😅 that is what I was thinking but had only tried short pips on a Neubauer Titan combo blade, and a Darker Speed 90 blade.

Thanks everyone for all of your comments.

amekun
03-09-2021, 11:09 AM
Yep i had one too. Liked it and Loved it.
go check out balsa blades too to get more options.

I tested both 1 ply and Balsa blades, and both do great wonders to SP Users.
I use my SP in the FH :)