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tabletennistomtom
09-24-2021, 11:50 PM
Hey guys,
we need new plastic balls and I´ve done some research on the internet.
The Nitakku Premium used to be the best ball at all the test 3-4 years ago.
The DHS WTT also seems to be pretty good.

Joola and Andro might be okay if u consider the price but thats not an issue for me.

Please share your experience :)

Thanks!

GrayGhost
09-25-2021, 03:09 AM
I've played with quite a few of the "premium balls". I still think Nittaku are the best but the DHS D40+ & DJ40+, Sanwei, Xiom balls are a very close second. Butterfly still make the worst balls.

Lazer
09-25-2021, 05:25 AM
Same here, Nittaku premium all the way.

Cheers
L-zr

trumpet_guy
09-25-2021, 05:44 AM
Nittaku premium. Feels solid and reliable.

However, DHS D40+ is very good if you sort out the non-round balls in each box. The spin is very good.

latej
09-25-2021, 06:38 AM
Tibhar 40+ SL. DHS D40+ is cheaper and good too, imo.

Edit: Joola Flash - stones. Sanwei - glossy like dog's balls. No thanks.

Funk Fu Master
09-25-2021, 06:53 AM
Nittaku premium. Feels solid and reliable.

However, DHS D40+ is very good if you sort out the non-round balls in each box. The spin is very good.
DHS DJ40+ are supposed to be exactly the same as the D40+, but with better quality control.

harty
09-25-2021, 09:37 AM
DHS DJ40+ are supposed to be exactly the same as the D40+, but with better quality control.
Yes, the DHS DJ40 + has stricter criteria for quality, weight, roundness and hardness. The tolerance of these values has a smaller range.
Today, DHS only offers DJ40WTT balls, where the tolerance range is 30%, 35% and 46%, with an image from the DHS catalog attached (https://www.dhs-729.eu/dhs-ball/DHS-DJ40-balls.png) -
https://www.dhs-729.eu/dhs-ball/DHS-DJ40-balls.png (https://www.dhs-729.eu/dhs-ball/DHS-DJ40-balls.png)
DHS balls were the most popular in the celluloid era. The DHS 40+ were not successful balls, but the DHS D40 + are definitely on their way, gaining great popularity again. I consider the very important flight characteristics and natural reflection to be the most important. Durability is excellent. We stopped using Joola Flash balls, poor durability and are twice as expensive.
There is complete satisfaction with the DHS D40 +.

Gozo
09-25-2021, 03:18 PM
Hey guys,
we need new plastic balls and I´ve done some research on the internet.
The Nitakku Premium used to be the best ball at all the test 3-4 years ago.
The DHS WTT also seems to be pretty good.

Joola and Andro might be okay if u consider the price but thats not an issue for me.

Please share your experience :)

Thanks!
For me, I am not brand conscious, My only preference is the 40+ ball must be seamless and have 3 star ratings. Any brand that meet this criteria I am happy. Next I will choose the brand which meet the aforementioned criteria that cost the least amount of money to purchase.

trumpet_guy
09-26-2021, 01:35 AM
Both the Nittaku and DHS balls mentioned above have seams. I recommend not refusing seamed balls until these are tried

Gozo
09-26-2021, 08:32 AM
Both the Nittaku and DHS balls mentioned above have seams. I recommend not refusing seamed balls until these are tried
So far, seamless balls I have played with have never break in between the seams. The same cannot be said for seamed ball, even Nittaku Premium 3 stars.

Yeah, sometimes, I hit overly hard... 😁

Funk Fu Master
09-26-2021, 09:36 AM
So far, seamless balls I have played with have never break in between the seams. The same cannot be said for seamed ball, even Nittaku Premium 3 stars.

Yeah, sometimes, I hit overly hard... 😁
True.. Infact, since the 40mm era, the best I've played with are XuShaoFa Seamless..

langel
09-26-2021, 09:46 AM
Currently I like most Gewo Select Pro and DHS D40+ World Tour.
DHS DJ40+ /the Doha version/ is claimed to be the same as the D40+ but with stricter quality control, but but I don't think so.
The DJ has a different sound, more sharp and clicky, which I don't like much.

karupinkun
09-26-2021, 10:09 AM
Nittaku premium still feels the best

antonymous
09-26-2021, 08:41 PM
Currently I like most Gewo Select Pro and DHS D40+ World Tour.DHS DJ40+ /the Doha version/ is claimed to be the same as the D40+ but with stricter quality control, but but I don't think so.The DJ has a different sound, more sharp and clicky, which I don't like much.
There is no "D40+ World Tour", only D40+ and DJ40+ "World Tour" (also "Busan", "Tokyo" and, the most recent, "WTT").

Dont' remember where exactly, but DHS stated that DJ40+ balls are made of "optimized" (compared to D40+, I guess?) ABS-plastic. Whatever it means.

And yes, all DJ40+ are made of the same plastic and differ only in quality control.

I believe, as official ball for Tokyo and WTT events, DJ40+ become a benchmark. So personally I wouldn't look at seamless balls or Nittaku Premium anymore, as they are (please, correct me, if I'm wrong!) made of non-ABS plastic, and thus feel quite different, like "lighter" and "softer" (don't really care about the sound).

How Gewo Select Pro compares to DJ40+? I think all european tournaments are still played with balls other than DHS. Which balls are used there? (But still, who knows, maybe that's about to change...)

jfolsen
09-26-2021, 09:36 PM
So far, seamless balls I have played with have never break in between the seams. The same cannot be said for seamed ball, even Nittaku Premium 3 stars.

Yeah, sometimes, I hit overly hard... 😁


True.. Infact, since the 40mm era, the best I've played with are XuShaoFa Seamless..

Interesting. I have found the XSF balls break quite easily when I catch them with the edge of my racket. I mostly play with Nittaku Premiums.

langel
09-26-2021, 11:32 PM
There is no "D40+ World Tour", only D40+ and DJ40+ "World Tour" (also "Busan", "Tokyo" and, the most recent, "WTT").

Dont' remember where exactly, but DHS stated that DJ40+ balls are made of "optimized" (compared to D40+, I guess?) ABS-plastic. Whatever it means.

And yes, all DJ40+ are made of the same plastic and differ only in quality control.

I believe, as official ball for Tokyo and WTT events, DJ40+ become a benchmark. So personally I wouldn't look at seamless balls or Nittaku Premium anymore, as they are (please, correct me, if I'm wrong!) made of non-ABS plastic, and thus feel quite different, like "lighter" and "softer" (don't really care about the sound).

How Gewo Select Pro compares to DJ40+? I think all european tournaments are still played with balls other than DHS. Which balls are used there? (But still, who knows, maybe that's about to change...)
Ok, this is what I mean - the D40+ World Tour Edition

https://www.agrimat.info/imgs/5/Dhs-3-%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD-d40-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B0-%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0/58908/image.jpeg (https://www.agrimat.info/imgs/5/Dhs-3-%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD-d40-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B0-%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0/58908/image.jpeg)


And the DJ40+ BUSAN /I wrongly noted DOHA edition/

https://bestseller-boutique.cam/60882-2020-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-dhs-dj40-3-%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0_upload/pics-1.jpeg (https://bestseller-boutique.cam/60882-2020-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-dhs-dj40-3-%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0_upload/pics-1.jpeg)


And I really don't like the Busan ones.

langel
09-26-2021, 11:33 PM
Pics not visible, ahr, buggy bugs.........

langel
09-26-2021, 11:38 PM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/server/php/files/38/904/21/09/26/WT.png

langel
09-26-2021, 11:39 PM
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/server/php/files/38/949/21/09/26/Busan.png

MOG
09-27-2021, 12:04 AM
They are all rubbish, they do not spin in the same way. It took me 45 years to learn how to spin a ball, and now its a useless attribute.Joola Flash are the only decent ball left, once you pick out all the eggs.

Tommy16
09-27-2021, 08:57 AM
Nittaku premiums quality is pretty bad now a days.
1 drive with the edge and the ball is broken. At the moment my choice is Andro speedball 3s. This seems
to be same ball as DHS World tour but the price is quite
a bit lower. Andro speed ball has by far the best price-quality ratio at the moment. Balls are round and lasts a long time!

Zwill
09-27-2021, 11:07 AM
Has anyone tried those DJ40 ABS balls listed under fake brands on Aliexpress? They cost like 10EUR for 50pcs. Are those low grade DHS balls being re-labeled and sold? I'm just thinking if they really are just low binned DHS balls they should be good enough for multiball or robot. Training balls are not cheap and the ones that clubs are using, like the joola flip etc are thrash.

antonymous
09-27-2021, 11:23 AM
Ok, this is what I mean - the D40+ World Tour Edition

And I really don't like the Busan ones.
Sorry, my bad! Looks like there is "World Tour" edition both for D40+ and DJ40+ after all.

I feel the difference between D40+ and DJ40+ on first shots, but don't really care about it during the game. Maybe, 'cause I'm just a beginner and/or regularly play with both (as these DHS balls are considered as "preferred" balls for amateur tournaments here in Russia).

Theo21
09-27-2021, 12:20 PM
is it just me, but i got the feeling that almost all tt balls are made in same factories or is there many manufacturers? what happend with the no joint ball, no longer popular?

Zwill
09-27-2021, 12:47 PM
is it just me, but i got the feeling that almost all tt balls are made in same factories or is there many manufacturers? what happend with the no joint ball, no longer popular?
You're right, there are very few factories making the balls for all the brands. There's the DHS factory in Shanghia, one in I think Guangzhou for the seamless balls like Joola Flash, one in Japan for Nittaku, one in Germany for Butterfly, and I actually don't know of any other factories... Tibhar, Donic, Xiom etc are just buying one from these factories, or buying from several factories at the same time. Like Joola Flash is seamless and Joola Prime is seamed DHS ball I believe.

antonymous
09-27-2021, 01:40 PM
You're right, there are very few factories making the balls for all the brands. There's the DHS factory in Shanghia, one in I think Guangzhou for the seamless balls like Joola Flash, one in Japan for Nittaku, one in Germany for Butterfly, and I actually don't know of any other factories... Tibhar, Donic, Xiom etc are just buying one from these factories, or buying from several factories at the same time. Like Joola Flash is seamless and Joola Prime is seamed DHS ball I believe.
But... If one goes to equipments.ittf.com and looks into balls' Equipment Code, he will be able to know the month of balls' approval. For example, Joola Prime approved in 09/17, D40+ in 02/16 and DJ40+ in 12/19. So... if Joola balls are indeed manufactured by DHS, Joola Prime may be exactly the same ball as an old DHS D40+, but it can't be the same as a new DJ40+ one, right? And the same goes for Andro 3S, which is appoved in 04/16.

(Just for fun.) Here's the list of 3-star, white, seamed balls, approved by ITTF in 2020-21:ButterflyR40+***XiomV40+***RaiseABS TEC 40+***Sunnysix40+***SanweiABS HD 40+***KBS40+***VictasVP40+***Counterstrike Table Tennis40+***
BTW, if I'm not mistaken, there was info here, on this forum, that Sanwei balls are self-manufactured. But previous Sanwei ball, ABS Pro, feels lighter than D40+, so I don't use it in tournaments.

Lazer
09-27-2021, 02:13 PM
Your missing the most important one Nittaku premium 40+ ***

Cheers
L-zr

yoass
09-27-2021, 02:16 PM
It’s been pointed out before, but at the risk of repetition… over here, the XSF threestar (seamless) has been very popular over the last couple of years.

It’s usually quite spherical, will allow a good level of spin. And it shatters easily on edge clips — and will disappear from ITTF’s list of approved balls soon. A lot of clubs would sit on a sizable heap of unusable balls (if anybody gave a rat’s ass, that is.)

antonymous
09-27-2021, 02:41 PM
Your missing the most important one Nittaku premium 40+ ***

Cheers
L-zr
White version of Nittaku Premium was approved in 03/14. So it's definitely not ABS. It may be a perfect ball, but if it has a different feel than contemporary ABS balls (and my guess that it is the case), that fact is a showstopper for me.
Orange version was approved in 09/20. But it would be strange if change of color would be accompanied by such radical change of material, don't you think?

Lazer
09-27-2021, 02:45 PM
Hmm, the Nittaku premium is definitely plastic, what other plastic material than ABS are balls made from?

Cheers
L-zr

antonymous
09-27-2021, 03:00 PM
Hmm, the Nittaku premium is definitely plastic, what other plastic material than ABS are balls made from?

Cheers
L-zr
In this article on ITTF site (https://www.ittf.com/2020/01/28/transition-celluloid-plastic-balls/) ABS defined as "second generation". As far as I understand, transition to celluloid-free balls began in 2014, but ABS plastic was established as de facto standard only since 2017 (still it is not the only plastic used nowadays). Before that time there were experiments and "poly" (polystyrene?) balls.

Lazer
09-27-2021, 03:18 PM
I dont know...
But I think that the Nittaku Premium "answers better (has more bite)" to spin and gets does not get "bald" as fast as any other ball I have tried.
Maybe the material is the reason...
I am not so sensitive but, I have yet to find an egg...

Cheers
L-zr

UpSideDownCarl
09-27-2021, 04:14 PM
White version of Nittaku Premium was approved in 03/14. So it's definitely not ABS. It may be a perfect ball, but if it has a different feel than contemporary ABS balls (and my guess that it is the case), that fact is a showstopper for me.Orange version was approved in 09/20. But it would be strange if change of color would be accompanied by such radical change of material, don't you think?
Are you sure the Nittaku Premium is not ABS. I thought it was the first ABS ball that all the others tried to copy and it just took a long time for companies to copy. Also, when 40+ Poly balls came on the market, the Nittaku Premium may have been approved. But it took them a long time, (maybe till 2015) to get them on the market, and they were not readily available until 2016.

I did not spend much time looking, but the only info I can find on the material used in the Nittaku Premium ball is this:

"The Nittaku Premium 40+ ball is made with a premium poly material that is exclusive to Nittaku."

That may or may not be an ABS plastic. Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene: ABS. Based on this:

"ABS is a terpolymer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpolymer) made by polymerizing styrene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styrene) and acrylonitrile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile) in the presence of polybutadiene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybutadiene). The proportions can vary from 15% to 35% acrylonitrile, 5% to 30% butadiene (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butadiene) and 40% to 60% styrene."

ABS can have a range of proportions so, can have a range of properties. So, if DHS and Nittaku were both making ABS balls, they still may not play the same since their formula for ABS production could still be different.

Lazer
09-27-2021, 04:38 PM
Good point...

Cheers
L-zr

zeio
09-27-2021, 05:57 PM
The Nittaku Premium 40+ is made of ABS. It's been known since 2014. Highlight the white space between >>>>> and <<<<< after the click. (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69551&PID=844169&title=nittaku-premium-40-secrets-revealed#844169)

In one episode of Takkyu Japan, Sayaka Hirano visits the Nittaku factory and they let her try the ultrasonic welding first-hand. It's really cool.

UpSideDownCarl
09-27-2021, 08:16 PM
The Nittaku Premium 40+ is made of ABS. It's been known since 2014. Highlight the white space between >>>>> and <<<<< after the click. (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69551&PID=844169&title=nittaku-premium-40-secrets-revealed#844169)

In one episode of Takkyu Japan, Sayaka Hirano visits the Nittaku factory and they let her try the ultrasonic welding first-hand. It's really cool.
Thanks Zeio. I was pretty sure that was what I remembered was that it was ABS. But....I am not fussed about that kind of info so, I did not know where to look. Good to have someone with the info at his fingertips.

trumpet_guy
09-27-2021, 08:41 PM
Interesting discussion of Nittaku and DHS ball manufacturing from the guys at TT11
https://youtu.be/eGfCAb7Lej0

antonymous
09-27-2021, 08:55 PM
Are you sure the Nittaku Premium is not ABS.
Abosultely not! Also I re-read that article from ITTF and I figured myself that ABS could be used earlier than 2017 and that article is just not quite accurate in that "2nd gen" definition (or they just called all plastic balls as 2nd gen, celluloid balls being 1st gen? I'm starting to feel lost here 😀).
After zeio's comment there is no doubt that Nittaku is ABS anymore. Thanks, zeio!

Brs
09-27-2021, 09:31 PM
Nittakus get shiny very fast and are less durable than the DHS, and they cost double-ish, so I prefer the DHS. The Bty A40s were pretty awful, but I just played a tournament with the Bty R40+ and those were fine, interchangeable with NP and DHS, but probably for an even higher price, idk.

antonymous
09-27-2021, 09:47 PM
I just played a tournament with the Bty R40+ and those were fine, interchangeable with NP and DHS
In the video from above TT11 guys say that newer Butterfly balls are manufactured in China (previously in Germany), so they are likely manufactured by DHS now.

boltnut
09-27-2021, 11:23 PM
This is exactly my experience as well. Everyone at the local club wants nothing to do with anything other than Nittaku, because all the tournaments around here use them. So I oblige and crack them left and right. My brother and I train with DHS and they last forever. Hardly ever break one and when we do it's the tiniest little crack. I almost spilt a Nittaku completely in two with a good smash. I bought a sleeve of 6 Nittakus and they're all gone. The box of 10 DHS that I bought months earlier still has 8 left......and like you said they're cheaper.

Nittakus get shiny very fast and are less durable than the DHS, and they cost double-ish, so I prefer the DHS. The Bty A40s were pretty awful, but I just played a tournament with the Bty R40+ and those were fine, interchangeable with NP and DHS, but probably for an even higher price, idk.

Lazer
09-28-2021, 06:46 AM
This is exactly my experience as well. Everyone at the local club wants nothing to do with anything other than Nittaku, because all the tournaments around here use them. So I oblige and crack them left and right. My brother and I train with DHS and they last forever. Hardly ever break one and when we do it's the tiniest little crack. I almost spilt a Nittaku completely in two with a good smash. I bought a sleeve of 6 Nittakus and they're all gone. The box of 10 DHS that I bought months earlier still has 8 left......and like you said they're cheaper.

Are You sure they are 40+ premium, It was a really really long time since I saw the best Nittaku's come in anything other then a 3 pack.

Cheers
L-zr

boltnut
09-28-2021, 10:10 AM
Are You sure they are 40+ premium, It was a really really long time since I saw the best Nittaku's come in anything other then a 3 pack.

Cheers
L-zr
Your right, it was two 3-packs. Definitely Premium 40+.

antonymous
09-28-2021, 06:40 PM
After 7 years Nittaku ball is still relevant!

PROSPECTUS - GAZPROM 2021 European Teams Championships
21. Equipment:
Balls : NITTAKU Premium 40+ *** white (plastic with seam)

Lazer
09-28-2021, 06:56 PM
After 7 years Nittaku ball is still relevant

Why not, it’s still the best...

igorponger
09-28-2021, 11:48 PM
Липучая резина -- интересная наука.

Сегодня на китайских резиновых фабриках применяютца (3) три технологических метода для производства липучей теннисной резины.

Самый интересный для массового потребителя способ основан на разработках американского химика Хари Фишер, патент 1934 года. Чем нас привлекает этот способ?
Липкость на резинах Фишера практически не увядает со временем, и для рефреша достаточно обработать заигранную резину медицинским спиртом, и резина будет липкая опять.

К нашему сожалению, массовый технически несведущий потребитель не может знать какая именно химическая технология применялась на резинах, которую он купил в магазине. Например резину Фишера можно распознать опытным глазом если поглядеть на топшит с изнанки.

ХУРРИКАН ЭТО НЕ АЙС, ЭТО ХУЖЕ.

Могу сказать одно, китайские резинки DHS Hurrricane не используют технологию Фишера. Они сделаны при помощи хитроумного метода "неполная полимеризация внешного молекулярного слоя". И это значит что оригинальная липучая потенция уйдет из резины безвозвратно по мере механического износа внешнего микрослоя на топшитах.
____________
КТО НЕ ПОНЯЛ, Я НЕ ВИНОВАТ.

igorponger
09-28-2021, 11:54 PM
The use of a racket covering specifically designed for a particular athlete is prohibited. "Specifically designed" means a covering material with a performance enhacement when compared with other equipment of the same brand.

UpSideDownCarl
09-29-2021, 02:07 AM
Липучая резина -- интересная наука.

Сегодня на китайских резиновых фабриках применяютца (3) три технологических метода для производства липучей теннисной резины.

Самый интересный для массового потребителя способ основан на разработках американского химика Хари Фишер, патент 1934 года. Чем нас привлекает этот способ?
Липкость на резинах Фишера практически не увядает со временем, и для рефреша достаточно обработать заигранную резину медицинским спиртом, и резина будет липкая опять.

К нашему сожалению, массовый технически несведущий потребитель не может знать какая именно химическая технология применялась на резинах, которую он купил в магазине. Например резину Фишера можно распознать опытным глазом если поглядеть на топшит с изнанки.

ХУРРИКАН ЭТО НЕ АЙС, ЭТО ХУЖЕ.

Могу сказать одно, китайские резинки DHS Hurrricane не используют технологию Фишера. Они сделаны при помощи хитроумного метода "неполная полимеризация внешного молекулярного слоя". И это значит что оригинальная липучая потенция уйдет из резины безвозвратно по мере механического износа внешнего микрослоя на топшитах.
____________
КТО НЕ ПОНЯЛ, Я НЕ ВИНОВАТ.


The use of a racket covering specifically designed for a particular athlete is prohibited. "Specifically designed" means a covering material with a performance enhacement when compared with other equipment of the same brand.
Igor, are you sure you are posting in the correct thread. This thread is about the 40+ Poly Ball. Your posts are about sticky topsheets and boosters.

antonymous
09-29-2021, 08:44 AM
Why not, it’s still the best...
IDK... Then why all ITTF tournaments since 2017 are played with DHS balls? Lobby?

UpSideDownCarl
09-29-2021, 02:29 PM
IDK... Then why all ITTF tournaments since 2017 are played with DHS balls? Lobby?
The ITTF has always used the balls of the sponsor who pays the most. They have been using DHS balls for a long time.

Go back and look at news from the 2016 Olympics and how many players were complaining that the balls were terrible. And yet they kept using the old DHS balls before DHS had ABS balls. Those balls would take wild, unpredictable bounces, they bounced very low, and they would break like eggs. There was one report where they had gathered some of the balls that broke in that day. It was A LOT. There were a few points in which the ball broke in the middle of a point. One where the ball split in half during a point. But, despite the complaints of many players, they kept using DHS balls. :)

Zwill
09-29-2021, 02:35 PM
I once remember having a match in a club where they used Double Fish balls. We broke a lot, I remember breaking like 3-4 which is very unusual.
But to be fair those balls played pretty well until they broke.

JHB
09-29-2021, 10:38 PM
Sorry to plough the same old furrow, but my own experience also says Nittaku Premium 40+ or DHS D40+ , with Sanwei acceptable when they are new but not much fun when they've been used a bit. The Nittaku goes shiny after a while, but you will get a good few games out of it before this starts to happen. The DHS ball is of course cheaper but seems very durable and I've never known anyone to complain about playing with one. I've rather gone off the Xushaofa seamless, even for practise, as I find them rather light compared with the Nittaku and the DHS.

There are plenty of people out there who believe playing Table Tennis should cost as near to nothing as possible, and consequenty are extremely reluctant to "retire" a ball unless it breaks - no matter how dirty or shiny it gets. In the lower divisions of my local league, two seasons ago when we were last allowed to play, it wasn't at all unusual to be presented with a used ball for a league match; if I was deputising for our captain I invariably put out a new ball at the start of the match, but I was one of the few !

John