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Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 08:31 AM
Hello please I have a question. I used to play with Rosewood NCT V + rasanter r48. When i loop, it had a lot of spin. But I broke my racket and I wanted to try something else. I tested Boll ALC + Tenergy 05. I liked it, so I bought it, but now I find out, that I am not able to generatesame spin in loop as before. NOT EVEN AT ALL.... Loop has good trajectory, is faster maybe, but there is no spin and it is very easy for everyone to block it.
I know, that mistkae is in my hands, but why is it happening? Tenergy should hvae a lot of spin or no?

Thank you very much

yoass
03-24-2022, 09:02 AM
Yes, T05 can generate a lot of spin. And that spin is generated a bit more easily than with most other rubbers, including R48 (in my experience).

The TB ALC and T05, furthermore, definitely match very well. What happens if you lock a ball between thumb and index finger, and than gently move it across the rubber surface with light pressure? You should feel the rubber grip the ball firmly, up to the point where even if you squeeze the ball tightly it still rotates or even wrestles itselfs free from your grip because it just won't slip.

Or… you'll feel the ball slide across the surface, in which case there's most definitely something wrong with that sheet of T05.

OldUser
03-24-2022, 09:08 AM
Hi Mart'a It's probably not the Tenergy, but the blade instead: you've switched to a completely different kind of offensive blade that feels probably stiffer than your Rosewood NCT V. I've used the Viscaria (same as TB ALC, only the TB feeling alil' bit stiffer) for some time and it definitely feels way harder, and faster than any kind of 5 plies all wood blades (I've used some Stiga, Donic, Andro and Tibhar all wood blades for some decades). It's a 7 plies, with carbon composite layers that add to that stiffness too.I know rosewood is a hard wood, harder than koto for instance (koto being the outer layer for the Viscaria), but the ALC layers + 7 plies total makes the Viscaria a totally different animal. Everyone here will tell ya the same thing I guess: switching from a 5 ply all wood blade to a carbon 7 ply one is a HUGE gap, it's maybe too much if you're really used to that 5 ply all wood feeling. A Tenergy on the same Rosewood NCT V ( anew one of course) would probably give you the same feeling as your previous setup, the Andro Rasanter 48 and the Tenergy 05 playing nearly the same : all brands that ask ESN to build an offensive rubber have the Tenergy 05 in mind, it's the standard in modern offensive rubber, it's the most popular and the one that has been sold the most to the players.

dajdosta
03-24-2022, 09:29 AM
Could be fake T05

Lazer
03-24-2022, 09:33 AM
Or technique...

Cheers
L-zr

OldUser
03-24-2022, 09:53 AM
The blade being the most important component of a racket, it's both blade and... consequently, technique: if you can't adapt your technique to the blade, go back to a new Rosewood NCT V. As I've said: probably too much gap between those blades.

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 09:56 AM
It is from brand shop. It shouldn´t be. I hope so... and it is spinny,

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 09:58 AM
Yes I agree and this is why I asked, if someone else noticed. The spin is still fast and have any quality, but I was used to, that I my spin 20 - 30 % of blocks goes out of the table, now it is almost zero

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 09:59 AM
Hello thanks. Yes it looks like huge step and maybe i need to adapt technique, but even with my coach I asked him, what I do wrong and he told me, technique is OK and that in my loop is spin, but still I see it is easy for oponent to block.

OldUser
03-24-2022, 10:15 AM
Hello thanks. Yes it looks like huge step and maybe i need to adapt technique, but even with my coach I asked him, what I do wrong and he told me, technique is OK and that in my loop is spin, but still I see it is easy for oponent to block.
If the Tenergy comes from the brand shop, is therefore... spinny enough + technique is fine, then it's the blade: maybe you don't feel the ball being brushed enough because the TB ALC changes your own sense of touch.

OldUser
03-24-2022, 10:27 AM
To me a good alternative would be an innerforce butterfly blade, if you really want to play with a butterfly balde, either ALC or ZLC. The women in the France national team that play a spinny game use the Apolonia Innerforce ZLC (Pavade + Chasselin) with limba, softer than (sorry edit) koto, Jia Nan Yuan uses a Viscaria or TB Spirit because her game is more direct, so outer ALC like the TB ALC with koto (short pips on the FH).

Even the boys use Innerforce ZLC blades with limba, like the Lebrun's brothers, to preserve a spinny game.

EDIT: also, the P ball is a terrible ball for spinny games, that's why the new generation players mostly use innerforce blades technologies from various brands (Ovtcharov, Franziska, Ma Long, Moregardh to name a few), those who plays with a Viscaria are mostly the chinese but then the sticky Hurricane III compensates a lot on the FH loops.. The only ones who play really fast blades to me are Timo Boll since he switched last year to a Primorac Carbon (but he's in the veteran age category now), and the young swedish guy Anton Kallberg, an exception in that, but they both have an incredible feeling and ball control to be able to generate spin with those blades. Lin Yun Ju too, quite young, but Harimoto is in the innerforce category, so as you can see the consensus is more in the innerforce technology today.

Tembel
03-24-2022, 10:48 AM
This sounds to me like an issue of a stiffer blade. Generally 5-ply blades have more flex than a 7-ply blade. More flex makes it easier to generate spin on loops, whilst a stiffer blade give more stability in more direct shots like blocks and counter loops.

NDH
03-24-2022, 11:17 AM
I’m going to be the big old meanie here, and whilst using a faster, carbon blade is going to require a bit of getting used to, there really isn’t much of a technique change needed.

The vast majority of people will look to the equipment as the issue, because it sounds harsh saying “your technique isn’t good enough” - But unless we can see a video, that’s the usual answer.

The other thing to remember is that at most levels, spin is better than speed, and people will be more comfortable blocking a faster loop, than a slow, spinny one!

mocker88
03-24-2022, 11:25 AM
Could it be the gluing gone bad?

Lazer
03-24-2022, 12:01 PM
It is from brand shop. It shouldn´t be. I hope so... and it is spinny,
A blade does NOT effect spin directly only by it's speed. The longer the ball stay on the racket the more spin in possible to generate.
But the spin is up to the rubber to generate. most likely the blade is too fast for You.

Cheers
L-zr

Richie
03-24-2022, 12:35 PM
I would guess it's because there's quite a big difference in the way it feels to loop with a carbon blade compared to your allwood blade. That difference may have made you unconsciously change something with your technique. Maybe you're compensating in some way because of this difference.

I know that with an allwood or slower blade I could in the past get away with a very vertical looping motion. Since the contact with an allwood or slower blade will give the ball less forward momentum you can get away with a big upward motion. If you do that same motion with a much faster blade the ball will go out much more. So therefore you might compensate with a slower but still vertical/upward motion and if you do that you'll have less spin + less speed.

The answer is to have an upward + more of a forward motion and you do that with better technique.. I don't think I'll go into those exact details in this post though. You can post a video or have a look at your technique yourself to see if any of this makes sense.

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 01:03 PM
Hello thank you. My play:
Tournament 2022-03-17 Women, evening. Arena "Prague" - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfzSiHH-1z8)
about 35 min in blue shirt. It is me - but with old racket. I havent played any thing since I have new one.

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 01:19 PM
Hello thank you. I posted my play in post above. But I am sure I donot play 100 % ok, but what I was cuóurious was, why before had loop much more spin :)

NDH
03-24-2022, 01:35 PM
Great video! Looks like a good standard 😃

There are lots of little tweaks you can make, but I think you’ll get used to the T05 and TB ALC combo, and you’ll have more spin as you get used to it.

Because the TB ALC blade doesn’t allow as much time on the rubber (compared to your all wood blade), you’ll need to bear that in mind, and adjust for it (it looks like you have the ability to do so quite easily).

If you can get that part of the game sorted, you’ll have more weapons as the TB ALC will give you more speed, and almost as much spin if you can get it sorted.

But I guess the question is…. Why did you change?

What are you hoping to improve/do better with the new blade and rubbers? 😃

Lazer
03-24-2022, 01:36 PM
You play very good, most people on this site has no business giving You advice (certainly not me but I will try anyway).
But what I can see (I only watched 1:st set) is that You have good top spin on Your forehands with Your old racket.
And from what I can see there is not much wrong with You technique.

My gut feeling is that You should try a little slower blade. Speed is mostly dependent on blade and
spin is almost only dependent o rubber: But if the blade is way too fast the ball will not stay long enough on the racket
to generate much spin, then it doesn't matter what rubber You are using. BUT if You hit real hard You can force the ball
to stay longer on the racket.

What happens to me when I play with a blade that is too fast I start to overhit (too long), loose confidence and hold back.
This is one of the reasons why when I got a new blade I moved all the way back to MarkV to make sure in case the blade
was too fast.

Cheers
L-zr

dajdosta
03-24-2022, 01:54 PM
Hi, Tenergy 05 should have a lot of spin.

Some blades are better for spin than other blades.
Did coach tried your racket? Maybe you got some very hard and stiff specimen of TB ALC? I tried few such blades and each was different. Or maybe carbon blades don't suit you.
If you could test different blade with your T05 rubbers...

OldUser
03-24-2022, 05:13 PM
Ok nice vid indeed ! but... the TB ALC + T05 setup is definitely not for you: you pushes a lot with your backhand, blocking very well with it, and your forehand loop is really spin oriented with an angle that is much more opened than it should be with a fast setup, not a speed oriented forehand so, sometimes your elbow finishes behind your head, means that you forces on the spin instead of brushing lightly with a more closed angle as it should be done with fast rackets, probably because you've been used to slower ones.

It has to do with your footwork first, you're probably too closed to the table, that's why you brush the ball sometimes behind your hips and your elbow finishes up and behind the head. Being too closed to the table with fast rackets and that kind of technique will definitely cause problems, like loops with no spin, no arc (down the net most of the time, as the video shows).

You have to stay at least 1 step further away from the table. This will force you to have a more forward forehand loop technique, a more forward motion all in all with all your body, with a more closed angle for the racket.

example with Pavade brushing the ball on forehand loops vs a japanese defensive player, as I've said before her blade is slower than yours (Apolonia innerforce ZLC) and she's still using Tenergy 05 on both sides. Just after the serve she turns and jumps away from the table to always have a forward motion when executing her strokes.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/52bxZiGM9RI?autohide=1&controls=1&showinfo=0

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 06:34 PM
I broke my rosewood (i was a bit angry :D) and I wanted to try something else. I like trying and wanted a bit more speed. And also I red that this is good blade and many attackers play with carbon. Also in big halls on competitions, where speed of the ball is lower and there is nto so much spin, there it is usefull. But mostly I play in small arenas.

Marťa Sobková
03-24-2022, 06:38 PM
Thank you for the advice, I was checking the speed of blades and TB ALC should be similar like rosewood according to the numbers". My footwork is sucks, I had some troubles with my health and now I am slow, I hope in some time I will be faster, but still missing the spin now in the racket.
Finishing my elbow behind is one of my big mistakes, but it all starts from being slow... Soyou think that I should try another blade any 5 ply wood?

03-24-2022, 09:16 PM
Well, i experienced something similar, where I literally got more spin with Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft, Rakza Z, BTY tackiness chop, stiga mantra M, ofc H3Neo, El-p, el-s, mx-p and t64. Most of these are advertised to be a ‘less’ spinny version of T05. Maybe my sheet was just bad or fake though.

mocker88
03-25-2022, 10:36 AM
Great play :) I wonder... I play with similar ALC blades as the TB ALC, but with Chinese rubbers that has harder sponges. Now, some rubbers and blades don't mix so well, but according to a lot of reviews these should work great together. I think your forehand loops have great technique, and perhaps your new blade would work better for you with the Rasanter R48 rubbers on. I believe that the Tenergy 05 is a bouncier rubber, but it also should be able to create superb spin. But if you retain the same strokes, angle and power as with your old bat I don't think that the outcome will be the same as before as both blade and rubbers are new to you.

I would have replaced the rubbers with your old R48's just to see if it feels any closer to what you had, if they are still playable?
Another thought is to look at a bit harder rubbers like T05 Hard or Dignics 05 perhaps that might work better with a stiffer blade, and with thinner sponge like 1.9mm (if you have 2.1mm now) perhaps. But these rubbers aren't cheap, so...

But with that good technique of yours, you could absolutely use Chinese rubbers on forehand. It would work nice with this blade :)

zema
03-26-2022, 06:28 AM
Isn't Tenergy an anti-spin rubber ? LOL

Ok just joking. All these expensive and all these so called "grippy" rubbers seem to be only for pro players or amateur players a little above advanced levels with well developed techmiques. I think Sriver one of the best rubbers of all time but for me never had enough spin for me & so I used to use SuperSriver & thne Yasaka DO and TSP 730
But now that lot of cheaper Chinese super spinny rubbers are available that is what I use now. I like Juic Spinspiel but I am cheap & afford to be cheap as I not a good player. These are sticky rubbers & spin from top-sheet than (boosted) sponge. I have Tenergy a chance though I am a little better (still not very good with technique as someone pointed out earlier in ths thread) now as an advanced beginner but it did feel like anti for me (no spin at all) . May be pro players boost or something I do not know. Seems to me that lot more players buy Tenergy more as a status symbol than for functional utility.

OldUser
03-26-2022, 01:10 PM
If your footwork isn't spot on for an all out offensive racket, better get a slower blade at least. The numbers between different brands don't say much, there are too much differences between 5 and 7 ply blades, and if you add carbon to that equation, it's almost impossible to compare wisely.

I've been playing a similar game as yours with the old cell ball 38mm, only 5 ply all wood blades, max 7 ply, and never used carbon. When The P ball came in the game, I thought it was mandatory to use carbon blades, so I did like you with the Viscaria, trained a lot with a robot, a coach twice a week (I even loose some weight ! I was quite fit) and it was really exhausting to keep a really attacking game to fit in that visca/T05 setup (yep I've done the same for a month or so).

So I went down to an Innerforce ALC.S, yep quite slow compared to the visca, a Rakza Z in max thickness on forehand (sticky hybrid rubber, very spinny, kind of D09 if you want to compare to a butterfly rubber but less hard), and a Stiga DNA Pro M on backhand, and I then came back to my old style, everything is easier, the loops are not as fast anymore, but they are über spin loaded and I was really disturbing my opponents, better stats, better percentage, sure there are more longer rallies, but it's not exhausting as I'm able to dictate the game as I want now.

Marťa Sobková
03-26-2022, 02:42 PM
Hi everyone thank you for reply. We had our national tournament a day ago. Since t I played about 6 hours with it, but When i used to it, I finally was able to produce even more spin than before. Ad on the tournament I played above my avarage level, so it is good. I think the ocket will be great in the end and when I improve even more srvice/recieve and I get a bit faster, I think I will be there, where I want to be :)

lodro
03-26-2022, 06:32 PM
Hi everyone thank you for reply. We had our national tournament a day ago. Since t I played about 6 hours with it, but When i used to it, I finally was able to produce even more spin than before. Ad on the tournament I played above my avarage level, so it is good. I think the ocket will be great in the end and when I improve even more srvice/recieve and I get a bit faster, I think I will be there, where I want to be :)
Brilliant ! TTD in action with great success.
Looks like you simply needed more time to adapt to your new weapon.
I seem to remember reading a comment somewhere that it took Mattias Falck nearly 2 years to adapt
to his playing style when he started with short pimple on one side.................and he is a professional
All the best to you,,,,,,,,,great thread.

ricospin
03-27-2022, 10:42 PM
I agree with the issue being the blade. All wood blades have immense dwell- compared to most carbons at least. I have a blade with Tamca carbon in it and I can assure you that I do not spin as much my all woods.

You either have to learn to spin more via more acceleration through the ball, or change the rubber to something slower that can hold the ball longer allowing you to spin.

Marťa Sobková
03-29-2022, 05:38 AM
I agree with the issue being the blade. All wood blades have immense dwell- compared to most carbons at least. I have a blade with Tamca carbon in it and I can assure you that I do not spin as much my all woods.

You either have to learn to spin more via more acceleration through the ball, or change the rubber to something slower that can hold the ball longer allowing you to spin.
Yes exactly, I find out I need to doo the movement more precise, more faster. But when I do, the spin is much better. I can´t play the slow loops. they are not so spinny like before. But it doesnt mattter. I can play one loop slower and low and second fast and opponent is under pressure :)

ricospin
03-29-2022, 05:54 AM
Yes exactly, I find out I need to doo the movement more precise, more faster. But when I do, the spin is much better. I can´t play the slow loops. they are not so spinny like before. But it doesnt mattter. I can play one loop slower and low and second fast and opponent is under pressure :)
You can go for slower spininer shots, but it has to be a thinner contact. It's all technique, although I will admit that all wood is the best and easiest to spin with.

MartyC
05-18-2022, 12:34 PM
With ALC blade is necessary to play with a little another technique as with more flexible all wood blade , despite end speed should be similary by both.