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View Full Version : what do you say to an opponent..



daxx101
04-22-2012, 07:50 PM
when i play with players a little bit lower ranked than me and i do my serves, some of them tell me that i'm hiding the ball while serving, happened twice and sometimes it pisses me off. players with the same level and higher than me, and even some lower than me aren't arguing about my serve. they say it's the rules. i don't play professionally and doing TT is just a hobby for me. just because they aren't getting my serves they say i'm hiding it. what's the best way to confront my opponents?

*p.s. i can tell them how to get my serves but they're not asking me how. i just want the people in the club to be better not to make them inferior or something >_<

Tadex
04-22-2012, 08:07 PM
When there's no umpire and you don't want to confront the person, I think it's best to ask them specifically how you're hiding the serve and then just change it slightly. If he continues to find it difficult then get a second opinion in.

daxx101
04-22-2012, 09:42 PM
yeah that's what i did, the coach just told me to change my serve cause they can't get those kind of serves and changed the way i served when i play them

MildSeven
04-23-2012, 01:26 AM
Maybe more advanced players don't complain because they can return your serves after watching the behavior of the ball after you serve. It doesn't really mean you're not hiding the ball. I've never seen your serve so I wouldn't know, but I wouldn't just assume the reason people are complaining is because they can't receive it.

peter
04-23-2012, 03:09 AM
maybe you could post a video of your recent game in the club, that would say a lot more than just plain description

oh and, competition could get the best and worst out of a person, mind that my internet friend, just try to keep your mind open.

fongchengloy
04-23-2012, 06:01 AM
The best is to learn how to serve properly following the rules and nobody will complain. We are also doubtful sometime whether Xu Xin's serve is valid?

WiWa
04-23-2012, 08:07 AM
Just do a serve they can't return while obviously not hiding the ball and let them choose :p

UpSideDownCarl
04-23-2012, 08:41 AM
Well, it is interesting. I have played several people who serve illegally. You know, things like throwing the ball at the racket instead of tossing it. I have also had people who serve like that tell me that I am serving illegally. It is funny. If it is someone who does not know the rules it is a different circumstance than someone who does know the rules. I would not let it get you mad. Often, people who tell you that your serves are illegal are using game strategy to try and get you mad. If it gets you out of your game that you have been told your serves are illegal, that is not good, even if you are enough better than the person to beat them easily.

One thing I would do is have a coach, at some point, look at your serves and see if they are legal. Many people do serve illegally without realizing it. I was playing with some friends about a month ago. And I was watching one guy serve in a match. Now this guy is much better than I am and I was not playing. I was just watching. And I noticed that he was not actually tossing the ball more than 2 or 3 inches. I told him that it did not matter to me, but that, none of his tosses were high enough to be legal and that, he probably should change that because at some point, someone is going to make a big deal about it and that person will technically be right even though, this guy was not getting any advantage from having a toss that was not high enough. Almost every pro does something that is borderline or straight up against the rules. But, it is worth having someone who know the rules watch you serving and see if there is anything that is borderline, or against the rules.

Then you can explain the rules to that person and show how your serves are actually by the book. Or you can ask the person what he thinks you are doing that are against the rules and have him show you as was suggested above.

It usually does not matter to me if someone serves illegally, so in a match I usually would not say anything myself. But it is worth checking and having someone who really would know, see what you are doing.

daxx101
04-23-2012, 09:51 AM
the other guy, i showed him my serve, i tossed the ball right, removed my non-serving arm out of the way and said it's ok. but the other, i showed him and still says i'm hiding it

the only thing i can think of is that their perspective. my tummy is a little bit big, and the guy receiving it is in my blind side. and sometimes my serves are fast and those players (maybe they have less reaction time) don't get it.

braithey
04-23-2012, 10:00 AM
I have come back to playing TT after a 25 year absence and the one thing that really annoys me is the issue of correct service. I play local league and English National Vetts and in both competitions the standard of service is shocking. Ranging from serving virtually out of the hand, hiding the contact point with their arms and bodies and I can not count the number of people not throwing the ball 16cm and or vertically. I had a recent run in with a constant offender and just reminded them of the following "I don't make the rules I just try to play within them" It is not that hard to develop a service game that fits within the rules of the game.

judah000
04-23-2012, 11:45 AM
I will not argue with my opponent. i would just give him easy services like Tomahawk or a backhand service with plenty of spin. Then they have no right to say my service is illegal :p:p

UpSideDownCarl
04-23-2012, 01:04 PM
I will not argue with my opponent. i would just give him easy services like Tomahawk or a backhand service with plenty of spin. Then they have no right to say my service is illegal :p:p

That actually is a very smart idea. :)

Anders
04-23-2012, 09:22 PM
I do like this in competitions.. And this works in all the big ones in Norway that are not the nationals or STIGA Norwegian Cup competitions..! I serve by the rules until an opponent serves against the rules towards me. Then I start doing the same, and if he doesn't complain I continue if he does. If he complains, then I tell him that he is doing the same thing. I was told to do this by a coach, and it works. Players aint serving illegally against me no more since they really struggle to recieve my illegal service with high toss and hiding the ball :)

Ofc, the rules are stupid, but I as well as you guys need to follow them :p

Mr. RicharD
04-24-2012, 02:42 AM
The best way to confront them is to ask them if they are going to take a club match seriously. When you explain to them that this match is neither for rating nor points then they usually let service or small things go. When they realize that club matches for fun are neither good for training nor help them in any competitive way they usually relax and start to have fun.

Most higher leveled players don't complain about service because usually regardless of how you serve the ball is fairly easy for them to return. I personally always take extra effort to serve legally, but not everyone else does. It's actually surprising how few people know about the regulations for service and how poor interpretations are made from those rules. The umpires themselves often mistake their interpretations as was seen even at this past weekends Olympic Qualifier. Several bad calls from all around and what's worse is that even the announcers were surprised at stupid calls such as Robert Gardos' match at World's.

I figure that anyone who is below your perceived level that complains about service is either a try hard or someone who's very strict on regulations. Usually the above method can shy away players from being too strict out of competition, but if it happens often you should look for other players or if possible another club to play in. It's' rare, but there are plenty of clubs out there that can really create a bad environment for the casual or hobby player. I don't know how many people I've met that just are a poor representation of our sport. I'm glad their clubs are less successful because they neither want to grow the sport nor should they.

So I would just suggest explaining to them that if they're here to play a competition match they should bring an umpire with them (jokingly of course) otherwise loosen up and have some fun. If they really are having trouble with your service then maybe switch it up a bit to give them a better understanding of it or even offer some suggestions on how to return the service better. If they're taking that much time going over the service they should want to learn how to get better and if they don't learn quickly that service is often illegal in club and even competition play they'll rarely do just that.

Anders
04-24-2012, 07:45 AM
The best way to confront them is to ask them if they are going to take a club match seriously. When you explain to them that this match is neither for rating nor points then they usually let service or small things go. When they realize that club matches for fun are neither good for training nor help them in any competitive way they usually relax and start to have fun.

Most higher leveled players don't complain about service because usually regardless of how you serve the ball is fairly easy for them to return. I personally always take extra effort to serve legally, but not everyone else does. It's actually surprising how few people know about the regulations for service and how poor interpretations are made from those rules. The umpires themselves often mistake their interpretations as was seen even at this past weekends Olympic Qualifier. Several bad calls from all around and what's worse is that even the announcers were surprised at stupid calls such as Robert Gardos' match at World's.

I figure that anyone who is below your perceived level that complains about service is either a try hard or someone who's very strict on regulations. Usually the above method can shy away players from being too strict out of competition, but if it happens often you should look for other players or if possible another club to play in. It's' rare, but there are plenty of clubs out there that can really create a bad environment for the casual or hobby player. I don't know how many people I've met that just are a poor representation of our sport. I'm glad their clubs are less successful because they neither want to grow the sport nor should they.

So I would just suggest explaining to them that if they're here to play a competition match they should bring an umpire with them (jokingly of course) otherwise loosen up and have some fun. If they really are having trouble with your service then maybe switch it up a bit to give them a better understanding of it or even offer some suggestions on how to return the service better. If they're taking that much time going over the service they should want to learn how to get better and if they don't learn quickly that service is often illegal in club and even competition play they'll rarely do just that.

What Richard said is right, only use my method if you are competing on a higher level like national events and stuff ;)

Belisar
04-24-2012, 10:33 AM
When they realize that club matches for fun are neither good for training nor help them in any competitive way they usually relax and start to have fun.


If the match is for fun and I felt my opponent was gaining an advantage by doing something wrong then perhaps it would not be much fun for me.

I would also say that if it is not for ranking points then I could use it for a training perspective and try a few things out or perfect different serves, returns or other shots.

My final point is that we often can get into bad habits and I would worry that if I play a lot of fun matches and am doing something wrong then I could carry that into competition.

daxx101
04-24-2012, 10:53 AM
The best way to confront them is to ask them if they are going to take a club match seriously. When you explain to them that this match is neither for rating nor points then they usually let service or small things go. When they realize that club matches for fun are neither good for training nor help them in any competitive way they usually relax and start to have fun.

Most higher leveled players don't complain about service because usually regardless of how you serve the ball is fairly easy for them to return. I personally always take extra effort to serve legally, but not everyone else does. It's actually surprising how few people know about the regulations for service and how poor interpretations are made from those rules. The umpires themselves often mistake their interpretations as was seen even at this past weekends Olympic Qualifier. Several bad calls from all around and what's worse is that even the announcers were surprised at stupid calls such as Robert Gardos' match at World's.

I figure that anyone who is below your perceived level that complains about service is either a try hard or someone who's very strict on regulations. Usually the above method can shy away players from being too strict out of competition, but if it happens often you should look for other players or if possible another club to play in. It's' rare, but there are plenty of clubs out there that can really create a bad environment for the casual or hobby player. I don't know how many people I've met that just are a poor representation of our sport. I'm glad their clubs are less successful because they neither want to grow the sport nor should they.

So I would just suggest explaining to them that if they're here to play a competition match they should bring an umpire with them (jokingly of course) otherwise loosen up and have some fun. If they really are having trouble with your service then maybe switch it up a bit to give them a better understanding of it or even offer some suggestions on how to return the service better. If they're taking that much time going over the service they should want to learn how to get better and if they don't learn quickly that service is often illegal in club and even competition play they'll rarely do just that.

i agree..i don't play in competitions and it's just fun for me. something to get me to perspire (though i train kids sometimes). they are just 2 guys and sometimes don't come often as i do so i don't need to change clubs. i change serve when i hear them complaining.

Mr. RicharD
04-24-2012, 12:40 PM
Yes Belisar, but remember that by explaining this to them they can decide whether or not to actually play a fun match. If you're looking to play fun matches it should be with those that want to play fun matches not competitive ones.