Help with Blade decision

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Hello Everyone :]
I am thinking about a few different blades.
Timo boll zlf
innerforce zlf
zhang jike
innerforce alc
and i guess the photino is in the running aswell but i hear the innerforce is better

i am upgrading from a maze blade with Genius and genius sound.

also I will be trying out tenergy 80 on FH and 05fx on BH both in 1.9
i play generally offensive, i play a pretty short game, i would say mid distance is the farthest back i go

so
-which is the fastest
-most control
-most spin/dwell time
-how comfortable each handle is FL <-- very important
-best feel while playing, especially short game

im sure there is something else i want to know but i dont remember.

and im positive Carl will post with his overflowing wealth of helpful knowledge :p
 
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I've written about the ZLF earlier, you can read it here, http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4087-Butterfly-Z-series-revisited
I'm also playing with the 05-FX in 1.9 on backhand. I think the ZLF rocks on that particular setup, although i would find it too weak for my forehand play. The blades you have listed are quite different, the Innerforce ones generally have a more muted feel and less vibration compared to the ones that have the carbon layers closer to the outer plies. For FL, I would use the Zhang Jike, but it is a very personal opinion since i play with ST. Good luck on your search!
 
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well i would just get a timo boll ALC but my friend which i play with has that and i dont want the same thing.

and im in a mind battle with myself, i want the innerforce alc or the zhang jike cause they are cheaper, but i feel i would like one of the zlf's better.
i hear the innerforce is faster, or at least does not lose its power over distance as much. and has better feel.

but i trust the timo boll series. and i have felt the handle and love it. not many people comment on the comfort of innerforce compared to TB
 
says Spin and more spin.
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Anyone else have any helpful info?
im also considering waiting for either the zhang jike ALC or t5000

Zhang Jike blade is an ALC blade. Zhang Jike blade is excellent. So are all the blades on that list. I don't think you can really go wrong. Those are all really, REALLY, top of the line blades.

I know the one I like the most is the:

Innerforce ZLF

I do also like the Timo Boll ZLF.


That might be because I love when I feel ZLF. The reason I did not like the Photino is that Zylon makes the blade soft and makes it have a soft springy feel and Hinoki is a soft springy wood. So, perhaps it was too much soft and springy. I am not really sure though. When I tried a Photino it was quite a while ago. I just remember that I did not really love it.

For me, you get more ball feeling and more spin with the ZLF. But I am not so concerned with speed. Look at the blade I use right now:

Stiga Allround Evolution. It is an Off- blade. Not supper slow, Not All, or All+ even though the name says Allround, but it is not Off. It is about the same speed a s a Primorac Off-.

So, more ball feeling and more spin, I think, are good. The ZLF blades give you more dwell time, more spin and more control. My feeling is, if you can get those three without losing speed, that is a winning combination. It is true the carbon blades have this crisp feeling and the ZLF blades do not have as much of that, but there is less ball feel. I will take the ball feel.

The handles on all of the blades are excellent. The ZLF blades are about the same speed as the Timo Boll ALC. Butterfly rates the Innerforce ZLF faster than TB ALC or TB ZLF and it rates the TB ZLF slower than the TB ALC, but my memory says they were all pretty close to the same speed. They are all solidly Off rated blades. Not Off+, not Off-. A little faster than a Stiga Clipper.

Zhang Jike and TB ALC are awesome blades as well.

You really cannot go wrong with any of the choices you are looking at. If you stuck 1 card in a hat for each blade and had someone pull one card out. You would end up with a great choice. :)
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Now I will give my last piece of information, that I give, over and over and nobody fully listens to. I will see if I can say it a little differently. But I do get why nobody wants to listen to it. :) Fast blades are fun. I love the way they feel. It took me a while to get this. :)

Players who have good technique and are above 2100 level (USATT rating), which is about when a players fundamentals begin to become REALLY solid, can use a blade that has carbon in it without it slowing the development of their technique. That level is about where a player starts looking fundamentally sound, and, regardless of who they play, their technique stays decent. So, even when they get beaten up badly on the court, it is not because their technique fell apart and became sloppy. It is simply because they other player gave them stuff they could not handle.

For someone who just likes to play and does not really care about improving technique, this information is a little beside the point. If you are a person who just likes to play, plays mostly matches, does not do much training and does not work on improving technique, then just using what ever you want is fine. You will get better. But, there are certain aspects of technique that the pros employ that those players will not learn. Which is fine. Ultimately I play Table Tennis because it is SOOOOOOOO fun. But for me, the most fun I get from Table Tennis is from working on and improving the more subtle more detailed aspects of technique, like how you contact the ball, how you get the rubber to grab the ball, how you hold the ball on the racket longer to get more spin.

Last week I was hitting with my sister and she said: "I think I get what you mean by dwell time now. Because I am watching when you are hitting the ball and it is staying in contact with your rubber for a really long time." I like learning how you do things like that.

So, for a player who is not 2100 yet, using a carbon blade and using a blade that is faster than Off- can slow down the process of learning certain subtle stuff about how you contact the ball, how you hold the ball on the rubber, how you let the ball sink into the topsheet, and how much you let the ball sink into the topsheet, and how you use the forearm snap and the wrist in producing spin, the timing of all those things. Because a carbon blade makes it harder to feel the ball on the topsheet and sponge, and a faster blade makes it harder to hold the ball on the there, for most players who are not at this level, using a blade like a:

Butterfly Primorac Off-

or a

Stiga Tube Allround

(both blades are all wood and both blades are Off- rated and about the same speed), will help you develop an aspect of touch that most players at that level do not know you need. You will not have to try to learn this. It will happen naturally with a blade that speed that is all wood and has good ball feel. It will also help you develop the timing of the weight transfer for more power in your stroke. With an Off rated blade, a player who does not already have that technique and timing does not have to learn it, because the blade does the work. But, when your body has that touch and knows those techniques, when you get to a level around 2100 and switch to the type of blade mentioned in this thread, your technique will be ready for the equipment and the equipment will help you go to the next level.

Until your technique is fully solid, Off- all wood blades are very worth using.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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One more thing, every so often there is a player who is over 2100 whose technique is messed up and not good, but they are really good at something, and they are really good in matches at exposing their opponents weaknesses but their technique is odd; those are not the players I am talking about. But, usually, they are not trying to improve their technique. :)
 
says Spin and more spin.
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By the way, just for information purposes. I got that information about all wood blades Off- speed from two different pros who both said the same thing. They both told it to me completely separately from each other. I was asking them each some information about good setups for a friend who, at the time was looking to get himself something that would be the best setup for his improvement. Both players were on national teams in Europe when they were juniors and both players had the same basic information. That an all wood blade that is Off- is best for a player below a certain level and that, soft rubbers so that the player can learn mechanical spin should go with it. At least if you are trying to learn to be an offensive player with both sides smooth.

In deciding to act on their advice for myself even though they were not telling me I should change equipment, my level has increased a lot. Unfortunately my friend got a fast carbon blade with Hard rubber. :)

Part of the idea with why you need it until you are really solid, until the touch and technique is ingrained all the way into your muscle memory, so that you do the right technique every time, and you are tracking the ball and moving to it well enough to take the same stroke pretty much every time, then the carbon and not feeling the ball will keep you from feeling when subtle things like the contact, how far the ball sinks in, the angle of the bat, when to use the wrist, how much. And with the wood blade you will feel when you do not do it just so, and with the carbon blade you can get away with not doing it just so, so that the stroke and touch will seem okay. But it will keep you from fully developing that kind of loop that a higher level player just has because of how good their technique is.

It is all about muscle memory.
 
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Alot of great info carl, Thank you :]
and i know it all to be true, and i know i am a low level player in a lot of ways. My issue is i dont have much when it comes to resources.
for one, i dont drive, that already is a huge drawback.
I have 1 friend with a table. who is also the only other friend as serious about it as i am. and he is very busy, with work and school to be an engineer. we dont play as much as before, and when we did it was maybe twice a week. even then, its also our other friends. so we cant just start doing multiball or any kind of training cause everyone wants to play. it would be rude

theres only a couple clubs within an hour of here. and with our schedules being either full or conflicting, it just doesnt work out. so since my only training or practice, is when im actually playing. its rough :mad:

but i know what your saying, and it does mean alot to me to get better, but the difference is the motivation, i want to get better because i like to be the best i can be at everything i do, or at the very least, better than my friends :p. i dont compete in any tournaments or anything.

so my goal is kind of just to have a blade combo of ever variety. i have the standard Off setup, im moving to something faster. i have a all around/off- pip set up which i like very much. (donic epox offensive with mark v and tihbar grass dtecs)
the only issue is money, and the separation between what i want and what i need. if i had a ton of cash to throw around i would also get a slower blade in a heartbeat. its a tough choice carl and you make it tougher :p
 
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