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TableTennisDaily
04-24-2013, 12:11 PM
This week the ITTF have announced that from July 2013 on wards there will be the introduction of the new 'poly' balls to be used in all ITTF competitions. The ball will replace the present celluloid ball.

A recent study by the ITTF which was approved by BoD2012 have been testing the new 'plastic' balls in comparison to the celluloid balls and found both are very similar from a scientific and player perspective.

The recent poly ball study looked at how much spin could be imparted on the ball using both types of balls.

The full results can be found on the ITTF website here (http://etta.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Poly_Celluloid_Balls_Testing.pdf)

What do you all think?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/images/ballpoly.jpg

Source: ITTF and ETTA

MDanielCRO
04-24-2013, 12:30 PM
Why ITTF, why??

Alborz
04-24-2013, 01:49 PM
when they will use this ball for international competitions? July 2013 or 2014?

Steven
04-24-2013, 02:15 PM
Whew. Can't say they haven't done enough research before taking the final decision.. Interestingly the test players were very positive about it.
All I can say now is... I wanna test it myself. :p

Alborz
04-24-2013, 02:59 PM
i don't think they was testing the ball right . everyone tested new balls saying other this about this new balls.

Der_Echte
04-24-2013, 03:10 PM
I really do NOT want ITTF to play around with my balls.

Their hands are in enough bad stuff already.

PolishTT
04-24-2013, 04:33 PM
What is the difference between this balls and our "old" balls?

fnord
04-24-2013, 05:52 PM
when they will use this ball for international competitions? July 2013 or 2014?

According to the paper July 2014.


What is the difference between this balls and our "old" balls?

Made of plastic instead of celluloid, different production process, different sound, higher rebound, less spin, bigger size, lighter weight, higher volocity loss in the air.


I personally don't really trust this study, I think it's as always, a company assigns an other company to get the results they want to get else they reassign it to another one.

The task of this study from the view of the ITTF was to state that the new balls are not that different from the old ones, to point out that all testing players were able to adapt quickly and state that they had no significant problems with it. The last aim was to affirm that new balls have the same quality and a working production process with the same error rates.

All above mentioned points were confirmed by the study therefore I guess the ITTF got their will. End of my negative point of view ;).

TableTennisDaily
04-24-2013, 11:48 PM
Hi guys, does anyone know how recent the balls are in the test of this study? I have a plastic ball from William Henzell that I want to review in the upcoming weeks. But I have had it for a year now and perhaps this ball is now out dated and they have other products and newer balls in place??

fnord
04-25-2013, 01:13 AM
The balls were tested on September / November 2012 as stated in the report with the newest balls given at that time as far as I know.

Unfortunately I don't know how the development evolved since then but I linked tests of the ball below from April 2012, October 2012 and December 2012.

Maybe many of the tests below are even from the same ball charge since WLQ gave some balls to William Henzell at WTTC in Dortmund and he gave them to Youtube User Pathfinder Pro. If you also get / got them from him it would be nice to know if this assumption is true.


The tested balls in the study shouldn't be that more developed / different from the tested version below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgMcpgLxuA



Another interesting analysis might be (3 parts, just one embedded):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv_XlZvpm0g



Earlier test ( April 2012 ):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzo-PmL8IjA



Longer sound example at the Spanish Open ( April 2012 ):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtYZq9Y3Gx4

DexBG
04-25-2013, 05:20 AM
i don't think they was testing the ball right . everyone tested new balls saying other this about this new balls.

Actually, I found few reviews of the poly balls on internet and everybody evaluates the balls in the same way.

Matt Hetherington
04-25-2013, 12:32 PM
I still have my doubts about the whole plastic ball thing, definitely not looking forward to it > . <

Tom
04-25-2013, 01:18 PM
I'm gutted to be honest, the fact we keep having to change things in our sport :( I'm unconvinced that the new plastic balls will be the same, I'm sure there will be a lot of adjustments from us the players who actually play with the dam things! Not happy or looking forward to it at all, but can't do anything about it, so lets just hope the companies can improve the new balls and make them very similar to the current ones!

dici
04-25-2013, 01:36 PM
I smell funding sources for research. But it just too bad that there is not much time to do more research on it. Else if given one more years, there probably bunch of research on the material behavior can be done >.>

RIPPER
04-26-2013, 07:49 AM
lets hope it works out

UpSideDownCarl
04-26-2013, 01:17 PM
I still have my doubts about the whole plastic ball thing, definitely not looking forward to it > . <

That about sums it up.


Why ITTF, why??

That too.

Not much more to be said.

Dan
04-26-2013, 11:13 PM
It could either go in two directions I think. The game will become a lot slower and hopefully attract audience. Or it just becomes very difficult to play and a lot less spectacular shots occur. I mean a lot of good tt shots have gone viral lately boosting the awarness of our amazing sport.

Hopefully the new ball won't be to much difference after all.

Sent from my S2 using Tapatalk 2

UpSideDownCarl
04-27-2013, 12:45 AM
It could either go in two directions I think. The game will become a lot slower and hopefully attract audience. Or it just becomes very difficult to play and a lot less spectacular shots occur. I mean a lot of good tt shots have gone viral lately boosting the awarness of our amazing sport.

Hopefully the new ball won't be to much difference after all.

Sent from my S2 using Tapatalk 2

I believe a slower ball that bounces higher and spins less will make it easier to attack and play offense because you will not even need as fast a reset for you next shot since the ball slows down faster, the incoming spin will not effect you as much since it is harder to generate spin with the new ball, and if the bounce is consistently higher and more predictable than a celluloid ball, then offense will be easier against defensive shots and short game will be more about flipping than touch on short pushes.

I believe the new ball may end up being a total nightmare for defensive players.

RIPPER
04-27-2013, 05:47 AM
i tried viewing more details on the ittf site but i couldn't get the full review, anyone else?

Dan
04-28-2013, 06:32 AM
I believe a slower ball that bounces higher and spins less will make it easier to attack and play offense because you will not even need as fast a reset for you next shot since the ball slows down faster, the incoming spin will not effect you as much since it is harder to generate spin with the new ball, and if the bounce is consistently higher and more predictable than a celluloid ball, then offense will be easier against defensive shots and short game will be more about flipping than touch on short pushes.

I believe the new ball may end up being a total nightmare for defensive players.

Yeah I see exactly what your saying here Carl. The Chinese players are ultimate in the short game. So perhaps, this new ball may make it harder to win in the short game such as the serve/receive creating a closer gap. And for sure defenders will have a harder time.

p.s I really struggle against defenders hehe :) Jkz. The TT world will be very interesting once this ball has been finally released.

UpSideDownCarl
04-28-2013, 06:41 AM
The TT world will be very interesting once this ball has been finally released.

It will, and, of course, the Chinese team will have been training with it long before anyone else. :) LOL. And, since attacking serves and pushes will be easier, and the Chinese are also the best at that, it might actually even widen the gap.

Dan
04-28-2013, 06:53 AM
It will, and, of course, the Chinese team will have been training with it long before anyone else. :) LOL. And, since attacking serves and pushes will be easier, and the Chinese are also the best at that, it might actually even widen the gap.

Haha yes! That is a worrying thought!

HLDang
04-28-2013, 07:09 AM
It will, and, of course, the Chinese team will have been training with it long before anyone else. :) LOL. And, since attacking serves and pushes will be easier, and the Chinese are also the best at that, it might actually even widen the gap.


Possible, but I'm sure China will also distribute the new balls to the other top players... I would think they are honorable men to beat their opponents when both players are at 100%... otherwise, what's the point of taking advantage and creating a bad name for themselves?

dasunac
04-28-2013, 10:21 AM
to use international level.....mainly different sound and higher rebound

UpSideDownCarl
04-28-2013, 11:15 AM
Possible, but I'm sure China will also distribute the new balls to the other top players... I would think they are honorable men to beat their opponents when both players are at 100%... otherwise, what's the point of taking advantage and creating a bad name for themselves?

True and they have every reason to want a more even playing field. They really already are so much better than everyone else. :)

Baal
04-28-2013, 04:56 PM
It's a chance for manufacturers to make a windfall by introducing a whole series of new products "especially designed for the new ball". And they will mysteriously be more expensive. My theory is that this is the main reason that ITTF made this change. I have never believed the "impending ban on celluloid production" explanation claimed by ITTF president Aham Sharara. I also wonder if the people at ITTF who made this decision got something under the table form manufacturers for pushing this change through? International sports federations answer to nobody -- think of FIFA and IOC -- and in Switzerland where most federations have headquarters, this kind of official corruption would not be illegal -- which is why most sports federations maintain their headquarters there. Let me emphasize, this is what I suspect based on my cynical nature. I have no evidence for it. But I don't apologize for raising the question.

Anyway, since it's a done deal, all we can do is hope for the best.

As for anyone who suggests that this change is an attempt to reduce Chinese dominance, my response is follow the money. Not so easy in this case, but still... If ITTF was thinking this could reduce Chinese dominance, they are simply wrong. Actually, ANY rule change, no matter how trivial, ultimately benefits Chinese dominance since (a) they have many more players to choose from and an amazing depth of coaching infrastructure, so will always find the perfect players to match any given set of rules, and (b) they will immediately have a bunch of guys with PhDs figuring out the best way to deal with the new balls and will implement a strategic or equipment-based response to it sooner than everyone else.

They are just better, have orders of magnitude more players and coaches and fundamentally care more about the sport at a national level.

foz
04-28-2013, 07:29 PM
It's a chance for manufacturers to make a windfall by introducing a whole series of new products "especially designed for the new ball". And they will mysteriously be more expensive. My theory is that this is the main reason that ITTF made this change. I have never believed the "impending ban on celluloid production" explanation claimed by ITTF president Aham Sharara. I also wonder if the people at ITTF who made this decision got something under the table form manufacturers for pushing this change through? International sports federations answer to nobody -- think of FIFA and IOC -- and in Switzerland where most federations have headquarters, this kind of official corruption would not be illegal -- which is why most sports federations maintain their headquarters there. Let me emphasize, this is what I suspect based on my cynical nature. I have no evidence for it. But I don't apologize for raising the question.

Anyway, since it's a done deal, all we can do is hope for the best.

As for anyone who suggests that this change is an attempt to reduce Chinese dominance, my response is follow the money. Not so easy in this case, but still... If ITTF was thinking this could reduce Chinese dominance, they are simply wrong. Actually, ANY rule change, no matter how trivial, ultimately benefits Chinese dominance since (a) they have many more players to choose from and an amazing depth of coaching infrastructure, so will always find the perfect players to match any given set of rules, and (b) they will immediately have a bunch of guys with PhDs figuring out the best way to deal with the new balls and will implement a strategic or equipment-based response to it sooner than everyone else.

They are just better, have orders of magnitude more players and coaches and fundamentally care more about the sport at a national level.

Spot on!!! If there was only one rubber and one blade, there would be only one 38mm ball!
Still, I like change most of the time, it's what keeps us all so interested, just wish it wasn't so damn expensive, :-/

HLDang
04-29-2013, 05:34 AM
I guess I better keep some of my celluloid balls for collecting, just in case they go extinct ;)

Arlen
04-30-2013, 11:17 AM
I guess I better keep some of my celluloid balls for collecting, just in case they go extinct ;)

Heh, I guess everyone was like this when the 38 > 40mm ball change happened. :p

Alborz
05-01-2013, 11:33 AM
chinese players are best because they train more than anybody and ITTF knows it . they want to change the rules because manufacturers can make new , and more expensive equipment .

TTlover11
05-01-2013, 09:33 PM
need to change my game now!!!

TurboZ
05-02-2013, 12:51 PM
According to DHS, the new ball will have seam like the current celluloid balls instead of no seam as before. They claim their balls are as close to celluloid balls as possible in every way. So the balls are more widely acceptable by pro players. Also they are not much different to make as no seam balls so hopefully the cost will not change much.

International tournament will start using the new ball in July 2014. Celluloid balls can still be made and bought in the next 2 years until June 2016.

http://www.dhs-sports.com/portal/content/15495

jmillsy2
05-02-2013, 07:51 PM
I hope DHS are right and the balls are simlar to the celluloid ones. thatt would be ideal.
I dont want my life as a defender being made much harder!
however, if the ball is slower with less spin it may be a manageable compromise :) if they cant hit it as hard and i only need to generate a bit more spin..i can manage that :P
but hopefully there wont be much change, I dont want to have to adapt my game/technique much...
the tt companies are good at what they do. i trust they will come up with a ball close to the current one. :)

maeson23
05-03-2013, 04:29 AM
hmmm basing on my own understanding of the new ball, this may be infavorable for our defensive players wherein they play the game depending on the large amount of backspins that they produce. moreover, if the ball seems to be predictable in such competition, then it could be more predictable for the winner as well.
i could suggest that the ball must not be too smooth inorder to generate spins according to the will of the player, another is that, the ball must be durable as well. this will help the athletes to play well by not confusing themselves whether the ball breaks easily or not. PLaying at their optimum level must be the priority of the ITTF.
well this is basing on my own perception.. this will be a new generation of playing table tennis in the 21st century

WiWa
05-03-2013, 07:31 AM
I believe a slower ball that bounces higher and spins less will make it easier to attack and play offense because you will not even need as fast a reset for you next shot since the ball slows down faster, the incoming spin will not effect you as much since it is harder to generate spin with the new ball, and if the bounce is consistently higher and more predictable than a celluloid ball, then offense will be easier against defensive shots and short game will be more about flipping than touch on short pushes.

I believe the new ball may end up being a total nightmare for defensive players.

I looked over the full result review when it was still available, and if I remember correctly I think it stated that the test players thought the new ball would favor defenders. I forgot how they worked that out though :P But I can imagine that it will be harder to return chops that land on the very end on the table when you can impart less spin. So maybe height and length of the shots will become more important than spin, which could actually make a nice balance since at the moment spin is everything.

TurboZ
05-04-2013, 02:12 AM
I believe all previous reviews and impressions are based on no seam balls. The new balls announced by DHS with seam will start testing this month so we will have to wait and see. The result and end product will release to market in Sept to Dec 2013 according to plan.

Larnus
05-06-2013, 06:12 AM
Having tried several sessions of the new ball - my experience is consistent with everyone else's report.

For the past 15-20 years due to the advance in TT technology - it had become a looper's game. Due to the large decrease in spin and higher bounce of the new ball I predict it will become more of a smasher's game.

As Henzell noted, side-spin loops would totally lose side spin. For me, what I found is that long loops that rely on spin to bring the ball back down - would aways go long. I have a feeling I will need to have a horizontal bat to generate enough spin to keep the ball on the table... and even then the spin would be much less than before.

I'm known to have a very spinny loop in our training hall, and when I strike the ball into the net (by mistake), it would normally continue to spin viciously for 3 or 4 seconds. Now it stops dead in the net whatever I do.

For defensive pushes, the steers very high compared to the old ball.

I'm really confused and anxious about what I will do in the future. However, a friend who a very good old-school smasher - was loving and winning everything in the club. Every defense shot we made against him was like laying up promotional display shots. I guess this is what the ITTF were after - isn't it?

By the way, we were using the 'not officially approved' Palio balls. But the behaviour sounds similar to what others have said. I don't think we should kid ourselves that the new to-be-tested DHS balls will be much closer to the current ball. Otherwise, what would be the point in introducing the changes? The ITTF have their prerogative and will full it whatever our concerns.

Cheers!

~ Not a happy (loopy) bunny.

TurboZ
05-06-2013, 07:13 AM
I believe the Palio are no seam balls as oppose to the new DHS balls with seam which will use the same structure as what we are having now (combine 2 halves) except the material. Seam and seamless balls sure will make a big difference.

Tinykin
05-06-2013, 07:47 PM
I looked over the full result review when it was still available, and if I remember correctly I think it stated that the test players thought the new ball would favor defenders. I forgot how they worked that out though :P But I can imagine that it will be harder to return chops that land on the very end on the table when you can impart less spin. So maybe height and length of the shots will become more important than spin, which could actually make a nice balance since at the moment spin is everything.
I think they referring to fact that the game will be slower. Anything that slows the game will favour defenders/pushers.

TableTennisTom
05-08-2013, 11:45 AM
It will be a shame if looping becomes less effective and just driving/smashing the ball becomes the dominant form of attack. This would make table tennis less entertaining to watch and play. I just want to have a practice with the new ball myself. Anyone know when they will be available for the public to buy?

tabletennis4life
05-08-2013, 05:00 PM
i don't know beacuse i didn't test it :P

valere33
05-08-2013, 06:01 PM
Plus grosse ?

valere33
05-08-2013, 06:02 PM
J'en ai pas encore entendu parlé

BladeDeferi
05-08-2013, 07:41 PM
I only care if the plastic balls still have the nice smell when crushed, like the celluloid balls.

NTclub
05-09-2013, 06:46 AM
A plastic (poli) ball is sold here! (http://www.yoger.com.cn/product/178809.html)

Double happiness announced a new plastic ball here! (http://www.dhs-sports.com/portal/content/15495)

According to the information of this page,
a) ITTF starts to check a plastic ball of a ball maker from May, 2013;
b) ITTF announces approved ball names in December, 2013;
c) a celluloid ball can not be used in an international game from July, 2014;
d) a celluloid ball can be used between July 1, 2014 and June 30, 2016 (in China?); and
e) the introduced plastic ball of Double happiness is a ball having a seam.

Steven
05-10-2013, 05:43 PM
Just ordered some, can't wait to test them. :)

mrrybnik
05-10-2013, 09:28 PM
This is actually very interesting, although I don't think there's a necessity to change the material of the balls. I mean, It's good the way it is and no one never complained, right ? :)

Der_Echte
05-11-2013, 02:53 AM
ITTF has no business messing with my balls using fake ban scare.

dici
05-11-2013, 03:10 AM
A plastic (poli) ball is sold here! (http://www.yoger.com.cn/product/178809.html)

Double happiness announced a new plastic ball here! (http://www.dhs-sports.com/portal/content/15495)

d) a celluloid ball can be used between July 1, 2014 and June 30, 2016 (in China?); and


actually what the site say is that the is a probation period of 2 years where the celluloid ball will still be manufactured, until 2016 June 30. Before they are fully pull out from production line

emel312
05-11-2013, 11:21 PM
probably will take ages to get use to the speed/spin :\

arg0
05-12-2013, 11:05 PM
Quoting the first post:

The full results can be found on the ITTF website here
The link appears to be broken (404 error).
(Sorry had to remove the broken link, as this is my first post).

arg0
05-12-2013, 11:08 PM
actually what the site say is that the is a probation period of 2 years where the celluloid ball will still be manufactured, until 2016 June 30. Before they are fully pull out from production line
If the celluloid and plastic balls really behave differently. that's worse than forcing everybody to switch immedately, as they did when they introduced the 40mm ball. Suggests they're unsure themselves as to whether the plastic ball can match the expectations.

fnord
05-12-2013, 11:24 PM
Quoting the first post:

The link appears to be broken (404 error).
(Sorry had to remove the broken link, as this is my first post).

Welcome to this site,

here an alternative working link (http://etta.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Poly_Celluloid_Balls_Testing.pdf) so that your research won't be delayed anymore ;).

TableTennisDaily
05-12-2013, 11:37 PM
Quoting the first post:

The link appears to be broken (404 error).
(Sorry had to remove the broken link, as this is my first post).

Thanks for letting me know argo0. Not to sure what happened there, I updated the link :)

cas
05-13-2013, 07:04 PM
why they chance the balls, when we get the balls to practice with it ?

Steven
05-18-2013, 01:35 PM
Just ordered some, can't wait to test them. :)

Just received them... Haven't had the chance to really test them yet since I'm nowhere near a table tennis table this weekend and watching WTTC all the time. xD I bought these: Palio New Material Seamless 3 Star Table Tennis Ball (Commemorative Edition) | eBay (http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Palio-New-Material-Seamless-3-Star-Table-Tennis-Ball-Commemorative-Edition-/251270373985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a80e1a261#ht_555wt_906). They're seamless and they feel just as strong as regular balls but they clearly bounced higher.

Sali
05-24-2013, 07:52 AM
Have you already tested new ball Steven?

PhilipRJ
05-24-2013, 10:24 AM
I just hope that it will not become an advantage for some players and a disadvantage for others. If it is almost the same at before, then i have no problem with it.

WiWa
05-24-2013, 12:39 PM
Maybe short pip hitting will get a comeback :) Wouldn't that be fun ^^ He Zhi Wen and Tang Peng for Olympic Champions in Rio :D

Dan
05-26-2013, 11:48 PM
Thanks for all your updates guys! I will try get some and post a review :)

Timo Bern
05-27-2013, 12:32 AM
Finding ways to beat the Chinese ehh?....

Matt Hetherington
05-27-2013, 02:07 AM
Apparently the ITTF ball testing and approval coordinator is married to one of the women who owns the patents to the plastic ball, Soo Yook I think her name is. Anyway it's a huge conflict of interest because he stands to make money from the ball production if her ball is approved (by him). The Federation of Table Tennis Manufacturers has given them a 14 day period to resolve or negotiate the situation. I read this off the OOAK forum a few days ago.

More conflicts of interest at the ITTF > . <

Arshiakarimi
05-27-2013, 06:11 AM
Ooooh It's very nice💯👍👌🔱♥

TTFrenzy
05-27-2013, 12:14 PM
Apparently the ITTF ball testing and approval coordinator is married to one of the women who owns the patents to the plastic ball, Soo Yook I think her name is. Anyway it's a huge conflict of interest because he stands to make money from the ball production if her ball is approved (by him). The Federation of Table Tennis Manufacturers has given them a 14 day period to resolve or negotiate the situation. I read this off the OOAK forum a few days ago.

More conflicts of interest at the ITTF > . <

there are different patents antagonizing each other and the best "patent" will earn the rights from the ITTF?

Matt Hetherington
05-27-2013, 12:45 PM
there are different patents antagonizing each other and the best "patent" will earn the rights from the ITTF?

No I think there are just 2 people holding the patent for the plastic ball jointly under the company of the wife.

Wally
06-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Hi,

I recently found the following offer on ebay and just ordered a set, because of the low price.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/300891754059?var=600103875435


The seller told me, when asked, that those should be in fact the new plastic balls. Also the description states: "Material: Durable plastic"

When they arrived in the mail today, I tested their feel against some Butterfly 3* balls i got at home. They DHS feel more smooth and harder than the Butterfly.

I've added some pictures.
Can anyone tell by the packaging or balls, whether the balls I received are plastic or not?

39473948394939503951

Vardant
06-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Those are just regular celluloid balls.

YosuaYosan
06-04-2013, 12:01 PM
I've added some pictures.
Can anyone tell by the packaging or balls, whether the balls I received are plastic or not?


Can't really judge it through the picture, but if you have it at hand, you are able to see whether they are seamless or not (without the connecting point in the middle of the ball like the celluloid ball)..
If it is seamless then it is the new ball.. Most probably..

Wally
06-04-2013, 12:19 PM
Can't really judge it through the picture, but if you have it at hand, you are able to see whether they are seamless or not (without the connecting point in the middle of the ball like the celluloid ball)..
If it is seamless then it is the new ball.. Most probably..

They have a seam, but I think the DHS ones do have a seam in contrast to the Palio balls. I would appreciate, if someone who's got DHS plastic balls posted a picture as well for comparison.

Vardant
06-04-2013, 12:34 PM
They're in the package for celluloid balls, the markings on the balls are the same, it says they're ITTF approved which is impossible at the moment and they're clearly the same size. What more do you need?

Alborz
06-04-2013, 12:49 PM
Hi,

I recently found the following offer on ebay and just ordered a set, because of the low price.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/300891754059?var=600103875435


The seller told me, when asked, that those should be in fact the new plastic balls. Also the description states: "Material: Durable plastic"

When they arrived in the mail today, I tested their feel against some Butterfly 3* balls i got at home. They DHS feel more smooth and harder than the Butterfly.

I've added some pictures.
Can anyone tell by the packaging or balls, whether the balls I received are plastic or not?

http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3947&d=1370342838&thumb=1 (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3947&d=1370342838)http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3948&d=1370342842&thumb=1 (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3948&d=1370342842)http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3949&d=1370342846&thumb=1 (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3949&d=1370342846)http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3950&d=1370342850&thumb=1 (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3950&d=1370342850)http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3951&d=1370342854&thumb=1 (http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3951&d=1370342854)

these are not plastic balls because they have connecting point in the middle .

Wally
06-04-2013, 12:51 PM
They're in the package for celluloid balls, the markings on the balls are the same, it says they're ITTF approved which is impossible at the moment and they're clearly the same size. What more do you need?

This explanation is more than enough for me, thanks! Sorry i wasted your time.

Chriz87
06-07-2013, 01:11 PM
I cant wait to test the new balls but i fear the the new sound. Determine the spin will be different now.

Kruno.Jorgic
06-07-2013, 02:50 PM
What is the difference between this balls and old?

FlamingPancake
06-07-2013, 10:44 PM
It could either go in two directions I think. The game will become a lot slower and hopefully attract audience. Or it just becomes very difficult to play and a lot less spectacular shots occur. I mean a lot of good tt shots have gone viral lately boosting the awarness of our amazing sport.


Not only would a slower game attract an audience, but it could reduce the importance of athleticism in favor of intelligence and intuition. So, yes, the game will change, but I find the prospect of a greater emphasis on thought very interesting if it could allow older, smarter, more experienced players to have a resurgence in their careers. This would also imply a lengthened competition life for all players in the future, and as such, more competition (in terms of the sheer number of players). Yet another implication is that the game would develop in a different manner (aside from the change in ball itself), since we think much differently about things at, say, 35-40 rather than 20-25.

[Yes, there are coaches who's job is to think about just that, but there is a great difference in developing and innovating upon a sport when you are fully fit versus unfit.]

Heck, I just wanna see Wang Hao win his Grand Slam at 40.

TurboZ
06-08-2013, 06:20 AM
DHS had already announced in late April that their new poly ball will have SEAM like our celluloid balls. The process of approval start in May and probably will go into production later this year (Sept to Dec). Had ittf officially given up SEAMLESS or thing can still go either way until the approval process is final?

4032

Bear1960
06-08-2013, 06:26 AM
Hi,

I recently found the following offer on ebay and just ordered a set, because of the low price.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/300891754059?var=600103875435


The seller told me, when asked, that those should be in fact the new plastic balls. Also the description states: "Material: Durable plastic"

When they arrived in the mail today, I tested their feel against some Butterfly 3* balls i got at home. They DHS feel more smooth and harder than the Butterfly.

I've added some pictures.
Can anyone tell by the packaging or balls, whether the balls I received are plastic or not?

39473948394939503951

there are normal balls, not plastic. that's my opinion because transparency and seam. packaging indicates also something about olimpics...

TurboZ
06-08-2013, 08:42 AM
Obviously DHS new plastic balls with seam are not approved yet let alone selling on ebay so don't bother to track one down until later this year. Unless you got good connection in CNT who can give you some that is. :)

Anne
06-08-2013, 09:48 AM
I would test it myself.

Tinykin
06-08-2013, 02:45 PM
Not only would a slower game attract an audience, but it could reduce the importance of athleticism in favor of intelligence and intuition. So, yes, the game will change, but I find the prospect of a greater emphasis on thought very interesting if it could allow older, smarter, more experienced players to have a resurgence in their careers. This would also imply a lengthened competition life for all players in the future, and as such, more competition (in terms of the sheer number of players). Yet another implication is that the game would develop in a different manner (aside from the change in ball itself), since we think much differently about things at, say, 35-40 rather than 20-25.

[Yes, there are coaches who's job is to think about just that, but there is a great difference in developing and innovating upon a sport when you are fully fit versus unfit.]

Heck, I just wanna see Wang Hao win his Grand Slam at 40.

I sounds like it will be a game for fat old geezers.

But seriously, my guess is that the game will require less thought/intelligence as spin will be far less of a factor. The longer rallies will emphasise endurance of mind and body.
Let's all be happy and say a hearty welcome back to all those forgotten chiselers who nearly killed off the game back in the sixties.

FlamingPancake
06-09-2013, 10:04 PM
I sounds like it will be a game for fat old geezers.

But seriously, my guess is that the game will require less thought/intelligence as spin will be far less of a factor. The longer rallies will emphasise endurance of mind and body.
Let's all be happy and say a hearty welcome back to all those forgotten chiselers who nearly killed off the game back in the sixties.

You are correct that the game will favor athleticism if the openings (serves and short game) have the same characteristics (regarding spin and speed) as they do now. However, it seems that a decrease in average ball spin would significantly change those opening tactics, such that we may not even see players get to the looping "stage" of each point as often as we see today.

Then again, I have never played with the ball--I just think the various possibilities for tactical changes are intriguing.

Tinykin
06-13-2013, 02:47 PM
They'll get to the looping just as quickly but a single loop won't be as effective, I think. Thus leading to longer rallies overall. Similar to what happened from changing from 38 to 40mm, just more pronounced.

Samuraisam 3467
06-14-2013, 08:09 PM
Noooo!!! I love my heavy spin :( make it easy for flat hitters then and since theres less spin it wont kick making it very easy to lob and very hard to stay close to table

TTHopeful
07-09-2013, 02:21 PM
The ITTF have announced an update everyone! July 3rd 2013

Source: ETTA

A year of from now our balls will change.

1. Manufacturing

1.1 There is now the possibility of having two types of plastic balls: a) seamless; and b) with seam.

1.2 The seamless balls are being manufactured in a factory in Guangzhou, let’s call it “Co.X”, according to a new manufacturing process and a new technology with specially designed machines that can produce balls made of plastic composites and without seams. These balls have been tested extensively so far and they are of good quality, except that it is difficult to implement the “veer” test on these balls for lack of a point of reference (the seam). Instead, they will be tested for even distribution of the material all over the sphere of the ball. This is currently the weakness of these balls, the material is not sufficiently evenly distributed all around the sphere resulting in only 30% to 50% of the produced balls passing the ITTF ball tests.

1.3 There is supposedly an agreement in place between Co.X and DHS and DF. The agreement would state that Co.X only manufacturers the balls, while DHS and DF market and sell the balls wholesale. It is also claimed that it is DHS and DF that funded the research for the production of the seamless ball, which is a considerable investment.

1.4 There is now apparently a dispute between Co.X on one side and the other two companies, DHS and DF, on the other side. It would seem that all sides are claiming a breach of contract. This is not ITTF business and must be resolved between the companies. However, this dispute has changed the original plans.

1.5 Now, because of the dispute, DHS and DF have proceeded to produce their own plastic balls, using a different plastic composite material and using the traditional production technology of balls with seams. This is the same as celluloid balls, but using non-celluloid materials.

1.6 The result is that now we will have plastic balls submitted for approval by Co.X (seamless plastic balls) as well as from DHS and DF. Samples of the new “with seam” plastic balls were given out in Paris to players and others for testing and feedback.

1.7 Please note that neither the ITTF nor the manufacturers have any obligation to provide samples to anyone. The plastic balls are legal and have always been legal according to the ITTF rules. As long as the plastic balls pass the ITTF ball tests they can be used, even now, without any change in rules. It is the same procedure as if a new racket covering comes on the market.

1.8 The ITTF will use for ITTF events the plastic balls as of 1 July 2014. Other bodies (national associations, continental federations, leagues, clubs, etc.) can make their own decisions to use plastic or celluloid balls.

1.9 The celluloid balls will remain legal, and in use for those that want to use them, until their supply is depleted and are no longer available from the manufacturers

1.10 Initial sufficient supply of plastic balls will be available, according to the manufacturers, by the beginning of 2014, and full supply should be available by July 2014.

1.11 The strategy by the manufacturers, suppliers and resellers to sell off their stocks of celluloid balls is their own strategy and does not involve the ITTF.

2. Patent

2.1 There are three approved patents that we are aware of (maybe many more) with regard to the plastic balls. These three patents of which we are aware are distinctly different and owned by three different entities and do not affect the production of the plastic balls in any way.

2.2 Co.X owns a patent for the production of the seamless plastic balls using a specific technology and using specific non-celluloid materials. DHS and DF own a different patent for the production of non-celluloid balls with seams and the materials used are different than those used for the seamless balls. Therefore, there is no patent issue between Co. X and DHS and DF.

2.3 There is also a patent owned by two persons, of which one is related to Dr. Kuhn. I can confirm that the materials described in this patent are DIFFERENT than the materials used for the seamless ball (Co.X) and the materials used for the plastic balls with seams (DHS and DF). This is confirmed by all companies currently involved in the production of plastic balls. Therefore THERE IS NO PATENT ISSUE.

2.4 I urge all concerned, especially the distributors, NOT to create an issue where it does NOT exist. Do NOT meet with Dr. Kuhn. It is not necessary. And do NOT pay anything to Dr. Kuhn or his relatives or friends with regard to the patent. This is NOT necessary. The supply of balls from China is not affected by this patent.

2.5 In the unlikely scenario that the patent held by Dr. Kuhn’s connections becomes relevant, then the ITTF will immediately step in to solve the problem. Until then, there is NO ISSUE.

I hope that this message is clear and that now we can all concentrate on developing our sport and anticipate top quality plastic balls not only from China but from all over the world.

Mikael Berglund
07-09-2013, 02:36 PM
I have written about it in another post, but the plastic balls are not in any way ready for competitive play right now. They weigh to much and are not evenly round. Let's see later what happens with the manufacturing process.

EricTian
07-10-2013, 11:34 AM
our celluloid ball is fine ;_; dammit ITTF

Steven
07-10-2013, 11:52 AM
Played with the Palio plastic seamless balls yesterday. Only some FH-FH rallies.
The two biggest differences were the sound (they indeed really sound as if they're broken) and the higher bounce. Playing counter topspins the ball was caught by the upper edge of my bat a lot because I was really surprised by it everytime, but I think you just need some time to get used to it.
I haven't really tried out competitive play or influence on effect yet but I think I will play some more with them tomorrow.

Bear1960
07-11-2013, 06:57 AM
Morning to all. The indications given on the ETTU page indicates that the problem is more a political-economical as a technical problem. in a second phase the technical problem will be faced because, at the end, some balls has to be selled / used to play. At the moment I cannot imagine a ball that weights the 2,7g, is always 40mm in diameter and spring and rotate like the actual one. so, at the end, some adaptions will occur (named improvement?) like bigger diameter and/or higher weight. And this will change again our Table Tennis! I'm sure, we folk, have no power to push in one or in an other way, we can only scream our rage of the "in a too short time forced" changes. Someone said once: this kind of management is called: management by bananas: the product mature by the customer! in the meantime someone makes business with our skin...

seguso
07-16-2013, 03:21 PM
You are correct that the game will favor athleticism if the openings (serves and short game) have the same characteristics (regarding spin and speed) as they do now. However, it seems that a decrease in average ball spin would significantly change those opening tactics, such that we may not even see players get to the looping "stage" of each point as often as we see today.


if service has less spin and bounces higher, does this not mean that you can always flip the return? so it seems to me we will open immediately.

raga4ka
08-10-2013, 06:02 PM
Meh i liked table tennis better when it was speed glue + 38 mm ball . The game was so much more dynamic back then , now it seems it will slow down as hell , spin will be more irrelevant , making the game more and more casual . I didn't mind the speed glue ban , because changing glue every few hours was ridiculous , but this seems to much . And i can't help to feel that ITTF has done this to lower the skill level of the sport so that other nations can compete with China . Well guess what it may work at first , but better training and hard work will always prevail in the end .

Armendariz
08-10-2013, 07:03 PM
When the ball is slower, you will have more time to adjust the angle and to put more spin on the ball, right?

I guess it's somehow like thin and thick sponges. One player can create more spin with the thinner sponge, because he has more control. Another player uses short movements and needs a thicker and more elastic sponge to create more spin...

Armendariz
08-10-2013, 07:04 PM
2.3 There is also a patent owned by two persons, of which one is related to Dr. Kuhn. I can confirm that the materials described in this patent are DIFFERENT than the materials used for the seamless ball (Co.X) and the materials used for the plastic balls with seams (DHS and DF). This is confirmed by all companies currently involved in the production of plastic balls. Therefore THERE IS NO PATENT ISSUE.


Strange part...

Cornerer
08-10-2013, 07:40 PM
2 of the most interesting things about TT is spin and speed(maybe low bounce as well). Stop trying to neutralize them ITTF!!
I suspect ITTF are set up by a bunch of people who secretly love tennis and want us to become tennis players as well. No more short games and just keep hitting hard. I can see the end of table tennis history.
T_T

Alborz
08-10-2013, 10:11 PM
I don't think changing the ball will effect the players so much. players just need some time to get to used to it. The tactics may change but not so much. It is not like all plays will just chop or just attack every ball.
ITTF is not doing this to end the domination of China, because chinese players are the best because of training more than others and ITTF knows it. They are doing this because manufacturers can get LOTS of money buy selling new equipment to the people.
After all, the worst part is not the changes of the game because it will not change so much, it is buying new expensive equipment.

wan
08-10-2013, 10:45 PM
I think this new ball production will lead to new rubbers and blades production which are ostensible using the new technology that suit the play for new ball.
And, of course because of the gaining profit in marketing.

UpSideDownCarl
08-11-2013, 01:02 AM
This will mean changes in the game. Less spin, higher bounce, easier to attack, harder to put heavy spin on a loop.
vu
In my opinion, if you watch rallies from the 90s and compare to today, the rallies are more dynamic, they are longer, there are more spectacular shots, a defensive player was better able to compete with the top offensive players, someone who had been backed up and forced to lob could counter loop and get back to offense against a top player. In a match there were generally more long rallies than in todays matches where serve and receive is so dominant.

The one change that did help rallies a bit is the rule on hiding the serve. If that rule had been in place in the 90s there would have been a disproportionate amount more great rallies in a match from the 90s to make it so it was obvious how the ball size has affected match play. But it is still the case. Even though the level of talent is so high in todays game, the number of great rallies per match is noticeably lower than it was in the 90s and if hiding the ball on the serve had been illegal it would have been much, much more of a disparity.

If they are going to go to plastic and it is indeed necessary to go to plastic because of it being harder to produce celluloid because of how many countries ban the production of the substance, then THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO A 38mm BALL.

A 40mm ball will make smacking the serve much more a part of the game tactics as a result of less spin and higher bounce. The only way to keep Zhang Jike from attacking the serve is for it to be crazy spinny and super low. If all serves are going to be higher bounce with less spin the top players will learn how to just smack the hell out of the serves. In my opinion, this really could harm the sport.

UpSideDownCarl
08-11-2013, 01:04 AM
All that being said, if they could go back to a 38 mm celluloid ball, that really would be the best thing.

Tinykin
08-11-2013, 11:52 AM
I agree with you but no way will the 38mm make a comeback. They have probably destroyed the molds.
The coming of the plastic ball is a done deal.
The money generated by every serious player experimenting with new bats and rubbers is too much and has overcome any resistance from any influential source.
This will be the greatest ever money maker to every manufacturer and seller since TT began.
Think about it, Tenergy has ruled since it first came out. But now even Butterfly will have to come out with a new version which means that all the manufacturers will go back to level pegging. Stiga et al just love this.
All above is 'I think'....:)
But then again, celluloid balls will be around for many years to come. I can see many leagues not changing and some sort of split into celluloid vs plastic ball tournaments.
I am not a serious badminton player, but doesn't that sport have different types of shuttlecocks?

Alborz
08-11-2013, 01:36 PM
I am not agree with Carl. It's not like all top players will attack the serve. Remember when 38mm ball changed to 40mm ball many people think all the top players will attack the serve but it didn't happened. Only ZJK can attack every serve.
If the ball changes then still so many top players can not attack the serves. And if they can then there is not any bad thing. A rally actually starts when a player attacks a long ball with looping. If everyone attack the serve the rally is just stared sooner.

DexBG
08-17-2013, 10:16 PM
The Chinese players are training 24/7 therefore they are the best (i.e. more practice = more wins). Making the game simpler will lower the gap between the Chinese and other players. At professional level the game will become more interesting (if the Chinese players start loosing). However, at amateur level the game will become more boring.

aLeX-12345
11-19-2013, 04:30 PM
It looks exactly the same

massa
11-26-2013, 09:25 PM
Any news about the new ball?

Der_Echte
11-27-2013, 01:13 AM
Massa, I hear that it will be round. :)

PolishTT
11-27-2013, 05:14 AM
No way :O :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

massa
11-27-2013, 10:23 AM
Thanks a lot Der_Etche!!!!

fais
12-31-2013, 05:57 PM
I really do NOT want ITTF to play around with my balls.

Their hands are in enough bad stuff already.

#doubleentendreFTW

toppines
07-01-2014, 09:58 PM
When it will be officially in the tournaments?

Dan
07-02-2014, 10:15 AM
When it will be officially in the tournaments?

Hey Toppines, welcome to the site, it will begin in ITTF World Tour tournaments this July. Local leagues have the option of using the old or new ball in a lot of countries. I am unsure for Span what the plan is, maybe you can find out on your National Association website?