Penhold Technique

Zya

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Hello at all,

Before i post my question here the short story.
I'm a new basic/youth trainer from germany and the leader of a youth training group. Since one week i got 2 new players and both of them use the penhold grip since they started playing table tennis. I don't want to have to change there grip because i can't develop there play.

amultart.jpg

Photo from HERE

My knowledge about penhold techniques are very basic so i hope the TTD community can help me to get deep and links to technique videos, descriptions or image sequences.

Thanks for your help
 
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Re: OP


This pretty much explains it all. Try to make them have CPen paddles, as JPen loses out at competitive levels.

Since you're a shakehander, you'll have no problem teaching their backhands either if you teach them RPB. You'll have to use Pen for yourself quite a bit to know how to adjust their grip so that they can execute the RPB stroke (fingers can NOT be spread out, grip is middle finger and thumb oriented. You'll know what I mean once you try it yourself.)

As for the traditional penhold backhand kill...look into players such as Ryu Seung Min, Lee Jung Woo, Yoshida Kaii and see how they execute their backhand strokes.

If they're RPB oriented though, you'll want them to look into Ma Lin or Xu Xin, since they can do both traditional and reversed backhand. Wang Hao's RPB grip actually deforms the middle finger if used extensively, so I don't recommend that.
 
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Pingskills has good instructional videos but their penhold ones are not that good at all. The instructor doesn't even know hold to grip a penhold blade properly!
I still enjoy the classic ones by Guo Yuehua and Cao Yanhua (CPen), and Kim Taek Soo and Ryu Seung Min (JPen).
 
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Man, this is tough, I will try to look into it. I play shake hand, but when I am bored I play some penhold, and I am actually surprisingly good at it.... my forehand might even be better than my shakehand forehand, and then my rpb is better than anyone I have ever met, though granted I have only met a few.

Penhold is just so much harder to master than shakehand I think, so your job is definitely cutout for you. Honeslty, the forehand isn't really that different, for people who have grown up playing penhold, they are used to the difference in reach length between shakehand and penhold, so all you really need to coach them in order to make them better is the same type of stuff you would teach shakehand players. Just how to vary their paddle angle, and which angle to swing at depending on how much spin is on the ball etc. The backhand is a lot more difficult, if they don't use the rpb and just basically do pushes, that is just something you practice a ton until you get more consistent, and learning how to absorb the energy of the ball so that your hit gets back on the table. As for the rpb, thats really hard to get use to and master, and just takes a ton of practice, in terms of the paddle angle and how much spin you put on it, its basically the same as a shakehand backhand, but you are able to put more spin on it for short game, because you can put more wrist in it. I will try to find some good videos I remember watching a really good one, but I cant find it atm
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUK7-z7Zv3Y

This pretty much explains it all. Try to make them have CPen paddles, as JPen loses out at competitive levels.

Since you're a shakehander, you'll have no problem teaching their backhands either if you teach them RPB. You'll have to use Pen for yourself quite a bit to know how to adjust their grip so that they can execute the RPB stroke (fingers can NOT be spread out, grip is middle finger and thumb oriented. You'll know what I mean once you try it yourself.)

As for the traditional penhold backhand kill...look into players such as Ryu Seung Min, Lee Jung Woo, Yoshida Kaii and see how they execute their backhand strokes.

If they're RPB oriented though, you'll want them to look into Ma Lin or Xu Xin, since they can do both traditional and reversed backhand. Wang Hao's RPB grip actually deforms the middle finger if used extensively, so I don't recommend that.

Hmmm I am really interested in your statement about how Wang Hao's RPB deforms the middle finger. I knew that Ma Lin and Wang Hao grip their penhold differently, but do you have any pictures, or could you give me a more extensive explanation about how their two grips differ?
 
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Here is an instructional video by Kim Taek Soo. There are (I think) 7 videos in the series and this is the first one. Each one is about 7 minutes long.

Here is one by Guo Yuehua.
[video]http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/Em_kEwpXzmQ[/video]

Sorry, they are not in English but be patient and you can learn from two of the greatest penhold players in TT history!
 
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Hmmm I am really interested in your statement about how Wang Hao's RPB deforms the middle finger. I knew that Ma Lin and Wang Hao grip their penhold differently, but do you have any pictures, or could you give me a more extensive explanation about how their two grips differ?

Pics taken from mytabletennis.net:

Wang Hao's grip:
u397p6t12d3364085f44dt2.jpg

32_12500965719z8r.gif

This grip requires you to put pressure from your thumb to curve your middle finger, making your blade parallel to your forearm without locking up the wrist. The pressure also locks the blade in place, disallowing traditional backhand block (unless you have some insane talent in forearm flexibility). Over the table flips are INSANE after a few tries.
P.S.: The middle finger hurts the first few hours.

Ma Lin's grip:
u179p4t8d1358585f107dt2.jpg

This grip is the "hybrid" of WH's grip and Xu Xin's grip. The fingers are somewhat straight, but the grip is still middle finger oriented. Doing RPB requires a bit more wrist extension and therefore more awkward. Transition to traditional backhand is possible during play but I found it somewhat difficult.

Xu Xin's grip:
xu-xin-2009-12-7-19-12-56.jpg

Surprisingly, this grip doesn't lock the wrist as much as it looks. The fingers get in the way once in a while though. A personal favorite for me, since I put my hand a little bit lower on the handle, so the fingers aren't that much of a hindrance. What this grip loses out on is OtT BH flips but makes up in forehand control and ability to switch to traditional backhand with the smoothest transition of all 3 grips (for me anyways).
 
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As you should know the penholder grip has a very natural forhand in that it can be closer to the body as aposed to shakehands grip. If I were the coach I would teach them to focus on there backhand training. Lets say the red side is the forhand side. Make them use the black side for massive topspins and the red side for placement and chops. The first post tells u how to hold the paddle properly to execute these methods. DO NOT LET THEM USE THE RED SIDE FOR LOOPS ON THE BACKHAND!!! It is slow and will get them out of position for the next shot.
 
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As you should know the penholder grip has a very natural forhand in that it can be closer to the body as aposed to shakehands grip. If I were the coach I would teach them to focus on there backhand training. Lets say the red side is the forhand side. Make them use the black side for massive topspins and the red side for placement and chops. The first post tells u how to hold the paddle properly to execute these methods. DO NOT LET THEM USE THE RED SIDE FOR LOOPS ON THE BACKHAND!!! It is slow and will get them out of position for the next shot.

Translation: Do not loop with Traditional backhand (Jpen backhand loops). It is slow and gets you out of position. Use them only for blocks and chops [chops? are you sure?]
 
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Eh? I guess I didn't reallly think that part through.. lol but you got the main jist of it. It is very hard to execute a BH chop as a pen-holder so I would recommend not even trying them in the first place
 
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hm.. for BH chop, do you mean using the BRP side? or the FH rubber side? Since as a penholder, we always use FH rubber for chop on BH side.

As for beginner learner, for my own experience, I say forget about BRP first. Learn how to block, push, and receive using the traditional way. And once you familiar with FH loop (I mean at least somewhat master it), then begins with BRP loop.

The reason is that if you are not familiar with FH loop using penhold, then when you doing the BRP, you will twist your wrist more instead of using the arm movement.
 
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what you need is some of these videos , they helped me develop a great deal. + a top notch coach.. but videos helped when he wasnt available..







one tip for penhold play is to learn how to relax and keep relaxed through out... and what i mean by that is to keep a cool but focused mind and a very loose body ( all muscles need to be relatively relaxed through out the strokes and during movement..

this doesnt really apply to foodtwork. yet still you wouldnt want to be tensed up all the time
 
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I was using Jpen ever since I started playing TT and almost through my teens. I love the style of play since I think it's very elegant. The trick is never use and OFF+ set up. There's a lot more wrist work involve, and you may get immense spin from serves especially. I use the traditional BH like Ryu and I think it's rather easy to do once you know how.

Concentrate on 3 specialty what a penhold grip can give you. Serves, over the table FH smash and flicks, and offensive blocking. For starters, forget the the BH offense, and instead get better footwork.
 
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