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phillypong
03-03-2011, 10:32 PM
Hi all ,
I will give you some tricks to get a very long life for your rubbers.
to restore the grip (spin) of a rubber :
- clean it with some water and a drop of dishwashing liquid (like Dreft...), always use a gentle tissue to dry the water off (i use kitchen paper or toilet paper ;) )
- buy a can of WD40 (do a Google search on this if you dont know it) and spray some of it on the rubber, wipe open with your finger on the rubber, let dry for an hour, eventually you can repeat this (the oily WD40 attacks the rubber lightly and thus restores tack/grip)

to tune your rubbers (just like speed glue) :
-buy a bottle of lamp oil (=kerosene, liquid paraffine) , you can buy this for 3€ per liter
-use a brush to put one or two layers of lamp oil on the sponge (just like when you speed glue) , let dry for a couple of hours -> you will see the rubber get a dome !! , then glue with normal glue
this will give the clic sound of speed glue and the speed and spin
BTW : the Dandoy bio booster and others are in fact 95% lamp oil/paraffine
a lot of the better players in Germany who used to speed glue do exactly this

this will pass the E-nez machine also

I also use the sticky protection sheets when i don't play (clean these sticky sheets regularly because they will become dusty and lose their protectiveness)

I play now 26 months in a row (2 to 3 times a week) with an Andro Revo Fire 1,7 mm , i restored the following worn rubbers : Donic Coppa JO Gold 1,8 mm, Tibhar Nimbus 2 mm , Andro Impulse Speed 1,8 mm (fantastic glue effect with the lamp oil boosting !)

you can even use the lamp oil as an alternative to the WD40 to get the spin back , but you have to be carefull not to use too much then as the lamp oil does attack the rubber more than the WD40 does

Try it on a worn rubber and give me some feedback, you will be happy you tried !

http://images.suite101.com/528546_com_save_money.jpg

The companies selling rubbers will not like this post !!

So do you use any of these techniques?

Ndragon
03-03-2011, 11:25 PM
Have u ever tried boosting Tibhar Nimbus Sound?

bFeee
03-04-2011, 12:25 AM
So I've constantly tried with lamp oil ...
Apparently I must have applied too many layers ...
I would like to try it now with the Tenergy 05 FX but I have a little fear for the good Rubber = /
I do not know whether I should try this ... After all, covering pretty much does it cost money and if 2 layers are too much but then I stand there -.-

Has someone already tried the Tenergy?

TTHopeful
03-04-2011, 03:17 AM
Nice thread, maybe im not allowed to say this, but this is my theory ive had since the speed glue ban,

I believe the speed glue ban was set in place, for a global money maker from the higher people of TT. There was a point, where i was buying Sriver for 10 pounds and speed glueing it and it would last for 3 months. I rarely had to buy equipment, and this was training every day!

Speed glue allowed you to use many different rubbers.

Bringing in the speed glue ban, meant that company's would be back in control. People now have to buy the quality stuff to play at a reasonable level. I.e the tenergys, the joola expresses and more. They can put at what ever price they like, people have to buy.

Maybe im completely wrong :D

RIPPER
03-04-2011, 04:03 AM
Nice thread, maybe im not allowed to say this, but this is my theory ive had since the speed glue ban,

I believe the speed glue ban was set in place, for a global money maker from the higher people of TT. There was a point, where i was buying Sriver for 10 pounds and speed glueing it and it would last for 3 months. I rarely had to buy equipment, and this was training every day!

Speed glue allowed you to use many different rubbers.

Bringing in the speed glue ban, meant that company's would be back in control. People now have to buy the quality stuff to play at a reasonable level. I.e the tenergys, the joola expresses and more. They can put at what ever price they like, people have to buy.

Maybe im completely wrong :D

You're not completely wrong, there is some truth in what you say, but the ban was installed as the world Olympic committee found out about the VOC in speed glue and was determined that it was bad for players' health, apparently some people have died from it (but that would have most likely have been from intentionally sniffing it). And yea I heard that quite a few years ago the rubbers were so much cheaper, so expensive now. Glue can restore a rubbers life but really advanced players should be changing rubbers every 6-8 weeks. Obviously pro's do it sometimes for each match or every couple of days.

bFeee
03-04-2011, 04:38 AM
Almost all the pros play Rubbers train for 5 days only ... if the games and tournaments begin Rubbers before each game remade on it ^ ^

Charlie
03-04-2011, 01:01 PM
it it true baby oil makes your rubbers much faster?

Ndragon
03-04-2011, 06:14 PM
baby oil does the same thing speed glue does. Just maybe 80% as good. Makes Tenergies a dream to play with

bFeee
03-04-2011, 07:23 PM
I'd say would need detailed description how to treat a Tenergy with baby oil ... But other methods are of course ^ ^

Ndragon
03-04-2011, 10:38 PM
a few of my friends boost their rubbers with baby oil. Lasts about 2-3 months apparently.
You use a normal sponge to Spread 1 layer of baby oil on, not too thin. Leave it to completely dry for about 3 days. So dry that it feels nothing is on their any more. (it should dome a little). Put another layer on and leave to dry for 3 hours. Then put 1 layer of water based glue (they use butterfly free chack) on the blade only and stick the sheet on. Let the water based glue dry for 30mins though. Any water based glue should be fine (I think).

bFeee
03-04-2011, 11:11 PM
So if I again after 3 days to apply a layer, and the only 3 hours to soak the sponge is still totally stuck, I would say ....
Or apply only a minimal shift?

Ndragon
03-05-2011, 04:01 PM
I didnt quite understand ur post sorry.
You apply 1 layer of baby oil. Leave for 3 days.
Then apply 1 more layer of baby oil. Leave for 3 hours.
The apply 1 layer of water based glue on blade. Leave for 30mins.
Then slap ur tuned rubber sheet on and there u go :)

phillypong
03-13-2011, 07:22 PM
Hello,

Don't use baby oil because it does not work as well as lamp oil, just try out the technique i described in the first post of this thread.

Phillypong

sidthelefty
03-27-2011, 05:40 AM
thanks .this info has been a life saver for me. im gonna try it.always wanted to speed glue. ill try some cheaper older rubbers first though

markog99
03-27-2011, 09:41 AM
its interesting what people use to boost their rubbers.it this legal?

phillypong
01-18-2012, 08:51 AM
its interesting what people use to boost their rubbers.it this legal?

all top players boost their rubbers and the better amateur players too or even the ones who want to make their rubber more dynamic (for example a Tackiness C is rather slow, so boosted it is a very spinny and fast enough rubber)

has anyone tried the WD40 or lamp oil boosting/renewing yet ? what are your results ? please help this forum members save a lot of money !

greetings

yurybarquero
01-18-2012, 03:34 PM
I have done it with baby oil. I have seen a lot of rubbers restored by applying some layers of baby oil on the topsheet. The bryce fx is the only one that was ruined.... I have seen some tenergies that barely grip the ball recover its full grip...

Now with the boosting the best would be a layer of parrafin oil and 2 of baby oil on the sponge.....
Now if its for chinesse rubbers the best booster right now is calle Dian Chi Booster now it works awesome for jap rubbers but with one layer it is enough...

Matt Hetherington
01-18-2012, 04:19 PM
I know a guy who used to mix turpentine or petrol with his speed glue which created the ultimate sound and also went like a rocket

Belisar
01-18-2012, 04:47 PM
Just so people are fully informed before trying any of this.

I think anything that changes the playing characteristics of your rubber is deemed illegal.

I do not play at a high enough standard or take the game seriously enough to get bothered one way or the other but I can think a a number of players who would be unhappy if they felt their opponent was breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. for some it is a contenscious issue.

Anders
01-18-2012, 05:05 PM
Just so people are fully informed before trying any of this.

I think anything that changes the playing characteristics of your rubber is deemed illegal.

I do not play at a high enough standard or take the game seriously enough to get bothered one way or the other but I can think a a number of players who would be unhappy if they felt their opponent was breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. for some it is a contenscious issue.

Thats true. But I didn't stop boosting/speed glueing before the national federatrion of Noregian Table Tennis said they were going to start control all rackets. But on the other hand, I have so good rubbers now that I don't need speed glue. :D

Mr. RicharD
01-18-2012, 08:41 PM
I haven't read all of the posts, but Lamp Oil doesn't quite do it as good as the biobooster does. The thing about that 5 % is that is neutralizes some of the more harsher effects which allow you to actually put more layers on a sheet of say Tenergy. I actually in a 48 hour process can put up to 17 layers of it on which really tunes the crap out of the rubbers, but still keeps it safe to glue without fear or too much expansion. I've heard many players in the U.S. do this and thus don't have to worry too much about certain parameters such as the 4 mm thickness for sponge and topsheet that Lamp Oil can cause.

As for saving money, it is true that you can go out do this to save the characteristics of the rubber, but it is a lot of maintenance and requires a lot of time. I personally wouldn't spend as much time on all this as I have Chinese Rubber on the forehand and can tune Chinese rubbers on the BH which give it the same characteristics as some higher class rubbers. I still prefer Tenergy 05 on the BH and now even the Adidas P5, TZ SF to any tuned rubbers.

phillypong
02-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Anybody tried the lamp oil boosting lately ? Please give some feedback.

Der_Echte
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
With the exceptions of Anders, PPP, and Mr. Richard, (who have many posts and do not often discus this tuning thing) why is this thread dominated by jokers with under 100 posts looking to boost when this data is so prominently and often posted on just about every TT forum on the planet?

Then again, why do Adham & Co make it even moar profitable for manufacturers to sell moar and moar expensive rubberz?

UpSideDownCarl
02-14-2012, 04:36 PM
Okay. My perspective. People do it. Nothing wrong with it. The chemicals are not so great for you.

Baby oil works, kitchen oil works, paraffin, torch oil, lamp oil all work, Ronson's lighter fluid does something. Almost anything that is a highly flammable solvent works. I have a friend who uses Charcoal lighter fluid and says it works better than any of the above and that he tried gasoline and it worked well too. I don't know if I would feel comfortable using gasoline though. :) Combining baby oil and torch oil works pretty well. But it all takes time and exposes you to hazardous chemicals that are bad for you, so, if you do it, you should know that.

And if you really want a glue effect, just try this: http://www.rematiptop.com/part.php?pid=26&cid=26&sid=11

I think the story I heard is that one day some TT player did not have any regular glue and so he used the glue he had from a bicycle inner tube repair kit. And that was the start of speed glue. That link sends you to one powerful assed can of speed glue. So, even though the TT companies do not market speed glue any more, there are still companies that make bicycle tire repair glue. And that is speed glue. If you are breaking the rules, why not go all out. :) If you add some blend of extra chemicals from the list above to the sponge before using Tip Top Cold Vulcanizing Fluid you might be accused of using a rocket launcher when you play. :)

Not all of the newer rubbers work well with boost on them but Tenergy does well with some boost on it. I like leaving my stuff alone as much as possible so I will not take my rubbers off just to boost them, but I do boost my rubbers if I have to take them off for some reason.

jedimasterplk
02-14-2012, 04:46 PM
Very well written Carl. I can state as a fact that every top player does it. And believe me, you feel the difference when those topspins hit you....boosting adds speed and spin, but the control is great as well.

UpSideDownCarl
02-14-2012, 04:56 PM
Very well written Carl. I can state as a fact that every top player does it. And believe me, you feel the difference when those topspins hit you....boosting adds speed and spin, but the control is great as well.

Agreed. :)

phillypong
02-14-2012, 09:35 PM
With the exceptions of Anders, PPP, and Mr. Richard, (who have many posts and do not often discus this tuning thing) why is this thread dominated by jokers with under 100 posts looking to boost when this data is so prominently and often posted on just about every TT forum on the planet?

Then again, why do Adham & Co make it even moar profitable for manufacturers to sell moar and moar expensive rubberz?

First of all, the amount of posts is no measure at all for the quality of the posts (posts like : Draw your favorite player... are not really giving any plus to table tennis players, what about : What's your favorite color ?...).
It would be a lot better to count the amount of words a person posts, so posts like : "Lol" are not weighing as much as other posts.

Fact is : the production cost of a TT Rubber is about 0,5 to 2 € a piece :mad:, so why would we players keep paying 30 to 50 € for a piece of rubber that looses its performance after 3 months of play ? To pay the houses and Porsches of the sponsored players and company's !

Also it should be cleared out that tuning is NOT against the ITTF regulations (sorry Carl, but tuning is not breaking the rules), only if you use solvents with a certain volatility you brake the rules (like a lot of what you mention in your post).

This thread started on using WD40 and or paraffin (=lamp oil) to lightly boost and refresh rubbers that have lost their spin/speed/control to be able to play a lot longer with them.
I am 100% shure almost every player and visitor of this forum has rubbers that have lost their playing characteristics. Therefor info on using this WD40 or lamp oil on these rubbers and the result it gave is very useful to everybody.
I myself have been able to play with my Andro Revo Fire for 2,5 years (2 years of competition play and about 2 times a week training) thanks to the WD40 trick, after 1 year the spin was easily 30% lessened.
Paraffine used in a well ventilated area is really not harmfull (when you go to a gas station and fill up , you get a much bigger amount of solvent in your body!).
Also i want to say that i tested baby oil also, and it didn't work at all ! Olive oil (or other veggie oil) helps to restore grip on the topsheet as well (and is not harmful). Also things like gasoline will work but will quickly wear out the rubber, just as the speed glue did , but the stuff i mentioned , applied in moderation does not kill your rubber quickly).

I am convinced that real testing results on rubbers you guys have can help players to save money (or let them buy the rubber they prefer, knowing it will last twice as long as normal). So why not share the results on this thread.
Just mention the rubber, color thickness , the product you used and an appreciation of the result of the reviving attempt.(spin/speed/sponge hardness changes)

On other forums there are not a lot of specific results listed for different rubbers , so here we can make a difference hopefully.

I can state that for ESN rubbers (i did Andro Revo Fire(red), Tibhar Nimbus (red), Donic JO Coppa Gold (black), Andro Impuls Speed (black), Tibhar Genius Optimum + (black) i got this one for free from a friend who wanted to throw it in the bin! ) WD40 and lamp oil works well (baby oil doesn't).

OK guys , let the results be known pls, you can help a lot of players with it. (Table tennis equipment companies don't like this info)

JustAlt
02-15-2012, 08:27 PM
Phillypong, tuning is against the rules, because it strecthes the sponge, witch causes the topsheet to strecth too. Altering the topsheet's properties is against the rules. I'm not going to quote that rule here because I'm writing with my cellphone but you can look for it yourself.

UpSideDownCarl
02-15-2012, 09:32 PM
(sorry Carl, but tuning is not breaking the rules), only if you use solvents with a certain volatility you brake the rules (like a lot of what you mention in your post).

you need to know the rules better. As JustAlt states, anything that changes the playing charicteristics of the rubber is a banned substance including baby oil. Paraffin, by the way, is a chemical that is hazardous to your health so it is one of the chemicals you seemed to be referring to, a VOC.

UpSideDownCarl
02-15-2012, 11:05 PM
By the way, I think the info you are presenting is good and useful. I boost myself when I am putting my rubbers on. But, it is against ITTF rules. So people who do it should know that. I think the rule is misguided and is clearly not about your health if non hazardous materials like oil also would be breaking the rules.

Baby oil helps to expand the sponge. It does not do much for the top sheet but it expands the sponge. It does not work on all sponges though. It does work on Hurricane and Skyline sponge, on Mambo, Tenergy. There are things that work better. I do like paraffin, as long as you know it is dangerous and to use it in a well ventilated environment.

ttmonster
02-16-2012, 12:17 AM
If any kind of boosting is banned and if you are serious to improve your skills why should you boost a new rubber ? ( I am not talking about trying to liven up old rubbers ) .
If you are boosting, then that would be detrimental to your game because your technique on loading spin on the ball will get worse by the day , and in the long run your body position will get worse because the rubber is your job for you .
So isn't it when somebody starts boosting rubbers from day 1 they are indirectly assuming that they are going to play recreationally ?
I know every pro worth his salt says that CNT players boost and have special boosters that cannot be caught, unless we are able to prove it in the long run it is a redundant argument.

Aussieron50
02-16-2012, 12:20 AM
.I have tried lamp oil boosting lately on my globe 999 chinese national training rubbers and the effects are really good , lots of speed and spin , I really like the extra pace on the ball it supplies , way better than speed glue and so cheap !there was a little expanding of the rubbers but it stops after a few applications ...

WFal
02-16-2012, 01:43 AM
I was the President of ASTI and co-invented the ASTI speed glue and booster. About 6 months ago I decided to develop a safe highly effective tuner. I was interested in reading the posts on this thread concerning the Dandoy Bio Booster, which the product ad claims is " harmless, biodegradable and without by-oil product bio booster". Several people posted that the Dandoy contains 95% paraffin oil. This is either incorrect or Dandoy is misrepresenting its product. Paraffin oil is derived from petroleum. Secondly, it is not perfectly safe as if you swallow it and you regurgitate it and gets into your lungs, it is harmful. I know this as the product I have developed has a small percentage (approximately 20%) of paraffin oil and I am required to put a warning label on the package because of this chemical. I gather that several players at the recent US Olympic trials used the Dandoy booster. So I am sure it works quite well. However, I should point out several disadvantages if indeed the product is 95% paraffin oil. First, it takes a lot of the oil to boost spin and speed. Secondly, it is near impossible to use this solvent on a rubber where the sponge has a glue buildup, as the oil turn the adhesive to mush. Thirdly, the vapor pressure of ultra-pure paraffin oil is approximately 0.05 mm/hg. To pass the mini-rae test you need to have less than 3 ppm reading. According to my calculations this solvent may just pass but it will be very close to the limit. I don't want to turn this thread into advertisement for my new tuner (which does pass the mini-rae test), however, I would be interested to know what others think of the Dandoy and other products, especially if someone can confirm that these product contain 95% paraffin oil.

UpSideDownCarl
02-16-2012, 08:07 AM
If you are boosting, then that would be detrimental to your game because your technique on loading spin on the ball will get worse by the day , and in the long run your body position will get worse because the rubber is your job for you .
So isn't it when somebody starts boosting rubbers from day 1 they are indirectly assuming that they are going to play recreationally ?

Not sure I get this. Boosting is trying to get a similar effect to what you would have gotten from speed glue. All the pros used to use speed glue when it was allowed. Did their technique get worse from using speed glue to boost their rubber's performance? Did they assume that they would only play recreationally? Wang Liqin got caught for boosting and disqualified from a tournament that he WON. Is he a recreational player because he was boosting?

Again, I don't think you need it. I boost my rubber before I put it on and then I leave it unless something causes me to have to take it off and then I will reboost. If the effect wears off, I just keep playing. I don't really care. Almost all the rubbers I use were used by someone else first. But, I would still boost a new rubber. If you put the right amount of boost on, it feels really good and makes it fun to play.

UpSideDownCarl
02-16-2012, 08:17 AM
By the way, here is the rule:

Law 2.04.07 - The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.

Here is an article on the subject by Greg Letts: http://tabletennis.about.com/od/speedglue/a/ban_speedglue.htm

YosuaYosan
02-16-2012, 11:43 AM
Now I think that playing rubbers as they should could save quite some amount of money..

WFal
02-16-2012, 07:25 PM
The ITTF rule does not make sense as any means of attaching the rubber to the blade will "modify playing properties". One cannot play with the bare sponge so it must be attached. The adhesive will fill in the pores of the sponge, thereby modifying its properties. Further, as the ITTF no longer has a list of approved adhesives it is up to the player to decide what means of attachment should be used. Each adhesive will have its own characteristics. Further, the amount of adhesive will also be a factor. Also one could put different amounts of adhesive on different locations of the sponge. And as far as I can tell one could use more than one type of adhesive (Haifu approach) either in series, or for that matter in parallel. Any adhesive will outgas over time so it is up to the player to decide how long he/she must wait for the racket to be "legal", which means it passes either Enez 1 machine test (local test) or the more stringent mini-rae test (usually major national and international tournament). Even a fresh sheet of rubber will not pass, as was the case recently for one well known US player. So if you are in the unfortunate position that both your main paddle and backup have a tear in one of the sheets, you cannot be sure that a fresh sheet will pass even using water-based adhesives. Shortly after the release of this "double think" law, which not only is logically flawed but also requires that each player be a chemist (an ideally own a 3 thousand dollar test machine), I asked for the resignation of the ITTF President. This occurred several years ago and I am still waiting from Mr. Sharara to send me a copy of the minutes showing the vote that gave him the right to rescind the list of approved glues. He promised to do this.

I agree that we should be concerned for the health of the players and that some of the motives of the President and others in the ITTF are positive. But the fact remains that the most recent approved adhesives had very low VOCs, and were extremely safe compared to commonly available products in stores. Now that there are no approved adhesives each player can choose what they want to do. Where before, a player was very likely going to use the approved glues, they are now more likely to experiment with a range of non-table tennis related adhesives, and in some cases solvents. This makes it more probable that they will be using potentially less safe products than before. Further, it is well known that the top players in the world play with tuned sheets. Some from the factory and some not. It is even said that top players shave the edges of the rackets so that the sponge measurements will not to be able to detect that the sponge is in reality too thick.

just my two cents.

ttmonster
02-16-2012, 08:28 PM
I guess I did not express myself clearly Carl , what I wanted to know is why do any of us try to boost when its illegal in competitions.

Now, this is the point what I was trying to make :
1. Boosting alters the behavior of the rubber and the sponge. It makes it softer and gives your more power + spin + control from the softer sponge, from what I understand from reading all of your posts.
2. In that case, any given attacking stroke will be easier to make if you are using a boosted rubber. So over a period of time the effort to make the stroke perfect using footwork, weight transfer and proper form would reduce. Won't it?
You would not need to use your body to make the amount of spin you want if you can get it from just using your arm /wrists ad slowly your positioning will get worse. ... And I am talking about players who are focussed towards developing their games, not just playing it for fun and trying to beat all the people in their club.
3. Now regarding Wang Liqin , from what I understand, he did go through a rough patch initially and had considerably less success just after the speed glue ban.

I can understand the argument that through boosting "I can pick up a 10$ chinese rubber and make it behave like Tenergy, and I will switch to Tenergy just for tournament play or I am not playing tournaments in the foreseeable future" ....

I am not supporting or opposing the motive behind the speed glue ban, it might or might not have been done at the behest of the manufacturers. But now that it is a reality , should we not accept it and try to make the best of what is legal if we are serious about competing officially ?





Not sure I get this. Boosting is trying to get a similar effect to what you would have gotten from speed glue. All the pros used to use speed glue when it was allowed. Did their technique get worse from using speed glue to boost their rubber's performance? Did they assume that they would only play recreationally? Wang Liqin got caught for boosting and disqualified from a tournament that he WON. Is he a recreational player because he was boosting?

Again, I don't think you need it. I boost my rubber before I put it on and then I leave it unless something causes me to have to take it off and then I will reboost. If the effect wears off, I just keep playing. I don't really care. Almost all the rubbers I use were used by someone else first. But, I would still boost a new rubber. If you put the right amount of boost on, it feels really good and makes it fun to play.

WFal
02-16-2012, 11:11 PM
TTmonster,

From my research it is legal for a factory to "tune" a sheet and this includes the use of solvent doping of the sponge. Many tt rubber manufacturers advertise "tuned" sheets. In many cases top players will receive the tuned sheets directly from the factory. As these tuned sheets have a limited shelf life, it is less likely that the "average" player who buys such products will receive the "fresh" sheets that perform as well as those provided by the factory directly to the world class players. So the ITTF has created a system where the elite players get better equipment than the rest. This was to some extent true before the "banning" of "speed gluing" but has been exacerbated with the rule changes. Worse yet is the technology gap between what the players on the Chinese National team have access to, versus other international players. You cannot even buy the "tuner" used by the National team. Who knows what research chemists "cooked-up" for these players. After all the Chinese Team have access to some of the best chemists and researchers. Given the importance given to the sport in China I would not doubt that they have developed tuners that will give them an edge over their competition. And these tuners can be used legally by the manufacturers.

Your analysis of the benefits of tuned sheets is reasonably accurate. You do get more speed and spin with less effort, as well as more control. However, it is also true that the top end achievable from a speed glues or tuned sheet cannot be achieved through better technique or more "athletic effort".

There are many players who I know that are very unhappy playing with rubber that is not "tuned". They are forced to use much faster blades to make up for the lack of speed. This reduces not only the control and feel but also reduces the spin relative to the speed. One of the ITTF goal in recent years was to slow the game down so the points could be extended. A noble goal. That was one of the reasons why the 40 mm ball was brought in. The ball unfortunately is much less stable than the 38mm ball due to excess deformation of the larger ball on contact compared to the smaller ball (they both have the same wall thickness). One of the hypes for the 40 mm ball was that it would be easier to see on TV. This of course was not the case. What did occur in my opinion with the 40 mm ball is that players are more likely to get injured as more effort is needed to be competitive. This is especially true on the backhand for most players. Next the ITTF decided to ban the speed glued rubber, claiming it was for safety reasons. However, the main reason IMO was to "slow the game down". What really happened is that there is even more of a gulf between the elite players and the average tournament players. The top players in the world get special equipment and many even have a $3K mini-rae machine to make sure their equipment will pass the "sniffer test". There is only 1 mini-rae tester in the US (USATT in Colorado Springs). So you simply don't know as a player if your equipment will pass until you get to either the US Nationals, US Open or the Olympic or World team trials.

So TTmonster how do you know what you are playing with is legal unless you test it on the Mini-Rae. There have been many false negatives with this equipment as it is so sensitive. How do you know that your adhesive does not outgas too much as there are no approved glues. How do you know for sure that your rubber sheet is not outgassing too much? Maybe the sheet that you have used in the past from a manufacturer is different this time.

As I told Adham Shirara the current rules put too much responsibility on the player and not enough on the manufacturers. The ITTF rules are illogical and unenforceable if someone is intent on "breaking the rules". Finally they require each player to be his/her own "chemist" as there is no approved method of attaching the rubber to the blade.

UpSideDownCarl
02-17-2012, 03:29 PM
Nice post WFal.

As far as technique and equipment, regardless of the equipment you are using and whether you are boosting or not, you can always continue working on technique. Just like some players who use pips will stop working on technique and get worse in some ways because the pips do a lot for you, and others work on their technique and keep improving, if you are boosting and working on your technique and your footwork to get into position, and using your weight transfer, your legs and your hips to help power through backspin, or to help you re-loop topspin with power, your technique will keep improving. No matter what equipment you are using if you rely on it and let it do the work and do not focus on the process of improving your skills, your skills might not improve. But if you are working on your technique and improving it, and you have help from a coach who can get you to improve, things will improve.

ttmonster
02-18-2012, 06:10 PM
@WFal : I am all for your booster if its legal .
@Carl : I am convinced about your footwork argument , the technique part I would need a bit more convincing :) , isn't it simple ? If your car can do the parallel parking for you, you won't ever learn, or lose your skill by the day ?

UpSideDownCarl
02-19-2012, 12:50 PM
@WFal : I am all for your booster if its legal .
@Carl : I am convinced about your footwork argument , the technique part I would need a bit more convincing :) , isn't it simple ? If your car can do the parallel parking for you, you won't ever learn, or lose your skill by the day ?

But the racket does not parallel park or loop underspin. You still have to do the work.

Tenergy is a great rubber. It has its advantages and its disadvantages. When you are advanced enough to play with it, it does not make your technique worse. In fact, you need good enough technique to handle and control the rubber. Tenergy is a rubber that is trying to imitate a speed glue effect. A recreational player would not be able to handle speed glue or Tenergy. I have had recreational players try and use my racket only to give it back because they could not control it or keep the ball on the table. I know, if my setup has too much boost, I cannot handle it. :) It is like saying that if you use pips you will lose all your technique because the pips do all the work. Pips require a different technique than smooth. And with pips there is the possibility that you let the equipment do the work and your technique stagnates or gets worse; or you can develop the techniques that allow you to improve as a pips player. Same with smooth, boost, speed glue, or Tenergy. And I have no question about the fact that I can pick up a racket with Sriver or Mark V on it, a recreational racket or a hardbat and play at a decent level. But you have to adjust your technique and how you contact the ball.

Again, the real question would be, why would the pros use speed glue if it only made them worse and they could not continue to improve their technique while using it. And when speed glue was not banned ALL THE PROS USED IT. All of them.

You can ask guys like Dan and Matt (pingpongpom) about this. I am sure they would have an educated opinion having played at the levels they play at.

UpSideDownCarl
02-19-2012, 01:14 PM
By the way, if you are training and learning technique and not at a level where you can loop short underspin yet, I agree that it is better to use a basic rubber like Sriver or Mark V and a basic All+ or Off- blade to learn the basic skills and techniques of Table Tennis. I think a lot of players jump up to a setup that is too fast for them too quickly. Fast blades and Glue Effect rubbers, like Tenergy, are not needed until you are at a decently high level and are playing competitively. And they will not help your game until you already have good technique for all the basic strokes. But once you have that, they will not make your technique worse. Only you can do that to yourself by lazy habits.

Good technique has a lot to do with training good strokes into your body so that when you are in a situation where the technique is needed muscle memory causes the right stroke and the right kind of contact for the situation to come out. Good technique comes from a lot of training and a lot of repetition. Equipment will not make that worse once you have the muscle memory for the good strokes and the right kind of contact for the situation.

WFal
02-20-2012, 11:53 PM
TTmonster - When the tuner is available I will make an announcement. I am still trying to find the right can for the job
Carl - Although I never was highly rated player (only reached around 1800 US rating), I spent a significant amount of time working around and training with national and world class players. Further, I designed equipment for players in the top 100 in the world, including blades, rubber, speed glue and booster. For example, I was a technical coach for the 1992 US Olympic table tennis team and developed the world's first computer controlled table tennis robot in conjunction with Simplicity Tool of Oregon. I was the person who ran the drills for Sean O'Neill and Jimmy Butler. Although my rating was not very high, my technique was fairly advanced, as this was needed to test equipment. On occasion these skills allowed me to have some big upsets. Perhaps the biggest was my win over a fellow New Yorker to you, Tahl Leibowitz. We had a very famous "grudge match" many years ago, which I won. Tahl was around a 2300 US rated player at the time. I still practice with a fairly high quality player, John Thach Tran, who typically has a 2400 US rating. I think at that level one can really see the difference in tuned versus not tuned rubber. Even at my level I can feel a huge difference in my game playing against Thach. It is perhaps worth 500 rating points for me, which is a huge jump. That is am around a 1500 player without the tuner and my technique jumps to around 2000 with the tuner.

I think the 2700+ players are really affected by the "glue ban". One has to only look at the problems Fan Yi-Yong of the USA is having to know this is the case. Perhaps it is worse for older players who trained for many years with speed glued rubber. The difference is dramatic. But it is not suited for lower level players as has been stated by others.

Anyway I believe many will enjoy playing with the tuned rubber. I have worked hard to get a balance increase of speed and spin. Fortunately, I have a considerable amount of experience in speed glue/booster formulations and even have a US patent years ago on this (see US patent 5910528).

I would really appreciate it if those who claimed they know what's in the Dandoy can confirm it contains 95% paraffin oil.

Thanks

UpSideDownCarl
02-21-2012, 04:59 AM
TTmonster - When the tuner is available I will make an announcement. I am still trying to find the right can for the job
Carl - Although I never was highly rated player (only reached around 1800 US rating), I spent a significant amount of time working around and training with national and world class players. Further, I designed equipment for players in the top 100 in the world, including blades, rubber, speed glue and booster. For example, I was a technical coach for the 1992 US Olympic table tennis team and developed the world's first computer controlled table tennis robot in conjunction with Simplicity Tool of Oregon. I was the person who ran the drills for Sean O'Neill and Jimmy Butler. Although my rating was not very high, my technique was fairly advanced, as this was needed to test equipment. On occasion these skills allowed me to have some big upsets. Perhaps the biggest was my win over a fellow New Yorker to you, Tahl Leibowitz. We had a very famous "grudge match" many years ago, which I won. Tahl was around a 2300 US rated player at the time. I still practice with a fairly high quality player, John Thach Tran, who typically has a 2400 US rating. I think at that level one can really see the difference in tuned versus not tuned rubber. Even at my level I can feel a huge difference in my game playing against Thach. It is perhaps worth 500 rating points for me, which is a huge jump. That is am around a 1500 player without the tuner and my technique jumps to around 2000 with the tuner.

I think the 2700+ players are really affected by the "glue ban". One has to only look at the problems Fan Yi-Yong of the USA is having to know this is the case. Perhaps it is worse for older players who trained for many years with speed glued rubber. The difference is dramatic. But it is not suited for lower level players as has been stated by others.

Anyway I believe many will enjoy playing with the tuned rubber. I have worked hard to get a balance increase of speed and spin. Fortunately, I have a considerable amount of experience in speed glue/booster formulations and even have a US patent years ago on this (see US patent 5910528).

I would really appreciate it if those who claimed they know what's in the Dandoy can confirm it contains 95% paraffin oil.

Thanks

Nice info Wfal. I know Tahl. That is a pretty big upset. And he gets angry. He must have been throwing his racket and I can imagine some of the things he might have been saying while you were taking the match from him. :) He is quite a character. And yes, I can feel a difference in my game with well boosted equipment.

UpSideDownCarl
02-21-2012, 04:08 PM
@WFal : I am all for your booster if its legal.

I guess you cannot repeat this info enough. Any kind of boosting that happens to a sponge after it leaves the factory is against ITTF rules. I quoted the rule in an earlier post in this thread. But the rule does not make sense so I would ignore the rule with products that are safe. It is just worth knowing that, if you do something to change the playing characteristics of a rubber, purposely, after the rubber has left the factory, that is against ITTF rules. The companies can boost the rubber in the factory and then get the approval of the ITTF. But once the product has left the factory, the only thing you are supposedly allowed to do with the rubber is put it on your blade with WATER BASED glue and then clean the topsheet with water or one of the cleaning products from the companies. Spin Max, even though there is now a non toxic version, is also against the rules. Anything put onto the sponge or the topsheet that is used to change the playing characteristics of the sponge and/or rubber is against the rules.

UpSideDownCarl
02-21-2012, 06:01 PM
Here is the rule again and the article by Greg Letts where he explains the rule and gives some opinion on the rule.


By the way, here is the rule:

Law 2.04.07 - The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.

Here is an article on the subject by Greg Letts: http://tabletennis.about.com/od/speedglue/a/ban_speedglue.htm

WFal
02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
Thanks Carl,

Tahl was pretty defensive about it for a while as it made the rounds on the TT forums around the world. We became friends after this. He always wanted an "official" rematch but it never happened. Once I did play him at the San Diego club a few games. As I told him at the time, this was not a rematch as I had already played that day for many hours. He played me lefty the second time (he is a righty) as opposed to playing as a righty in the "grudge" mach. He plays around a 2000 level lefty, and I believe he won those games with fairly close scores. When I played him in the match I won (it was a one game match which I won at 21-17) I was perhaps at my highest level in my career. I estimate I was really around a 2100 player at the time (with a high 1700 US rating). I had been training for the World Masters Games dor some time with several very good players including Sean O'Neill. I made it to the round of 16 in the over 50 division having match point against the no.2 Russian player. I lost concentration on the winning point and lost my chance to be in the quarter finals.

It is interesting to know why we did the "grudge" match. Tahl had been bad mouthing the ASTI rubber. We sponsored Sean O'Neill at the time, and Tahl called him a "hasbeen", claiming he could beat Sean (especially with the ASTI equipment). I told Tahl that he had no chance against Sean and I bet he could not even beat me. So this was the context of the match. Fortunately, for me it was played on the red mats which helped my game considerably. Also, he fortunately played into my strength, forehand to forehand counter looping. He also very much underestimated the quality of my serves (attempted to win point off the returns). Finally, his serves were very similar to one of my training partners for the World Master Games. The irony of this whole episode is that Sean became his coach for the Para-Olympics and other international and national events. I got to know Tahl a bit after that crazy episode and got to see a "nicer" side of him.

I am thankful for the time I have been able to spend with good players. Once I even got to be Sean O'Neill's "official coach" in the 1991 US Nationals Mens open semi-final and finals, which he won over Jimmy Butler. I was chosen by Sean as no one knew who I was. It is strange to see me on ESPN as I really didn't have a clue what to say to him between games ( just had to look the part and remind him of his "plan"). I remember this event well as I noticed for the first time on television that my hair was getting pretty thin. Sean was/is very magnanimous as listing me "as one of his coaches".

By the way can you show me in the rules where it says you have to attach the rubber using a "water-based" adhesive. And wouldn't water soaked sponge change the playing characteristics of a sponge? And as I have said before even when it dries the adhesive will change the sponge characteristics. There are many types of water-based adhesives. For example, what if one used a wood glue. There are also water-based urethane glues used in the shoe industry (ASTI used this type of adhesive for bonding top sheet to sponge). The fact remains there is no approved list of adhesives. Period.

phillypong
02-25-2012, 01:19 PM
We are way off topic here ! Where are the results of the WD40 or paraffin refreshing of worn rubbers ?

Bishop Rasta 27
04-13-2012, 05:02 AM
i've tried wd40 on my super729 fx both on forehand and backhand...but maybe i've sprayed too much because its a long wait to dry after wiping and spreading it on the sheet with my hands...but its a surprise because the tackiness that was lost on the blacksheet seems to have come back...its quite effective!

fongchengloy
04-13-2012, 05:22 AM
Because VOCs are expensive in a long run, most players would mix the Chinese brand speed glue with bicycle glue (50/50) and the result is you get a boosted rubber without going thru a long process.

daxx101
04-15-2012, 11:14 AM
are there any boosters for the topsheet?

yurybarquero
04-16-2012, 08:36 AM
Applying baby oil on the topsheet helps you recover the grip of the topsheet but do not do it to a bryce fx. Now if it is a brand new rubber you only need to boost the sponge.

judah000
04-16-2012, 10:06 AM
Is putting oil on it will be healthy to the rubber?

yurybarquero
04-16-2012, 05:18 PM
Oil is a natural part of the rubber but it dries out so what you do is to give back to your rubber the oil that it has lost.

This video is for the Falco Life Expander. And by the look of the video I can gurantee you that it is just oil...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VefUw6BSpGo&feature=player_embedded

Scorpnox
04-16-2012, 07:25 PM
Oil is a natural part of the rubber but it dries out so what you do is to give back to your rubber the oil that it has lost.

This video is for the Falco Life Expander. And by the look of the video I can gurantee you that it is just oil...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VefUw6BSpGo&feature=player_embedded

nice video :)

sunilcse04
04-17-2012, 01:10 AM
Dont use Oil of any kind.. It makes the rubber heavy and much slower.. Its my experience..

JustAlt
04-17-2012, 06:40 AM
Dont use Oil of any kind.. It makes the rubber heavy and much slower.. Its my experience..

Did you use raw-oil that was pumped just minutes before use?

Kan
11-29-2012, 06:57 AM
I tried the wd40 on a no name blade with an unknown rubber (test case). It had become quite slick and lost any of its grip. It was one of the higher priced, packaged inverted rubber paddles you can buy from a general sporting goods store. After applying the WD40 the rubber is now glassy and slicker. So one of three things:

1) The rubber is not really rubber,
2) The type of rubber is resistant to the charms of wd40,
3) The rubber was an anti-spin rubber already, and is now even more so. Doubtful, since these types of racquets usually have a cheap rubber that has some spin potential properties.


Update Nov 30.

The rubber has now regained grip - more than before application. I must have used too much WD40, or the interaction between Wd40 and the rubber took much longer to develop than expected. My post above was given after 12 hours of drying.
This post is after 60 hours.

XIII
11-29-2012, 09:50 AM
Dishwasher liquid has chemicals...
That may be poisonous...

amekun
12-30-2012, 12:28 PM
be careful with WD40
spray only a tiny bit
as in one spray then rub quickly with your hand

place too much and it can affect the ball during a game
it makes the ball very sticky

XIII
12-31-2012, 06:47 AM
Isn't the WD40 poisonous?

amekun
12-31-2012, 08:03 AM
i hope not because ive been using it on my old rubbers and i have a lot :))

Belisar
12-31-2012, 09:50 AM
Isn't the WD40 poisonous?

It can cause skin irritation if you have sensitive skin (so wash your hands after using it). You should also try not to get in your eyes (basically it is a petrochemical).

Not regarded as poisonous to my knowledge but as usual people should avoid being silly with it.

XIII
12-31-2012, 01:58 PM
Does the WD40 restore dead tacky rubbers?

Der_Echte
12-31-2012, 09:33 PM
Lemon juice and Olive Oil are great topsheet cleaning/restoring materials used together.

UpSideDownCarl
01-01-2013, 02:45 AM
Lemon juice and Olive Oil are great topsheet cleaning/restoring materials used together.

Sounds like a recipe for an Italian pasta dish. Lemon juice, olive oil, and Calibra LT. Perhaps some garlic and some oregano.

XIII
01-01-2013, 09:47 AM
Lemon juice and Olive Oil are great topsheet cleaning/restoring materials used together.
Doesn't DHS warn you about not using oil on DHS tacky rubbers?
I tried oil on my hurricane 3 neo once and it bubbled.

Der_Echte
01-01-2013, 11:43 AM
Olive OIL (mixed with lemon juice) is an OUTSTANDING cleaner/rejuvinator of topsheets, ESPECIALLY the tacky Chinese topsheets.

if you plan to store a Chinese topshete, spread teh Olive Oil, and immediately slap on that protective film tight and voilla! You are ready to mothball that sucker for years to come!

Der_Echte
01-01-2013, 11:45 AM
Methinks I gets more quotes than likes. That is good though, likes are over-rated.

Wonder if there could be a hate button and I could earn hate points hehe.

UpSideDownCarl
01-01-2013, 01:47 PM
Methinks I gets more quotes than likes. That is good though, likes are over-rated.

Wonder if there could be a hate button and I could earn hate points hehe.

Perhaps a certain # of quotes can = 1 hate. And a certain number of likes can = 1 hate. So if you are quoted 10 times there could be an additional field that would read: Hated 10 times. And if you are liked 10 times that field could read: Hated 10 times. And if you were liked 10 times and quoted 10 times there could be some random formula added to the numbers so you would get a reading like: Hated 1010 times. :)

Der_Echte
01-02-2013, 03:31 AM
Yes, I cheerfully encourage ALL to make frequent use of the "Hate William" Button if it ever becomes a feature on TTD. It give a real edge and legit stret cred to TTD moar so than it haz now.

;)

XIII
01-02-2013, 10:47 AM
Olive OIL (mixed with lemon juice) is an OUTSTANDING cleaner/rejuvinator of topsheets, ESPECIALLY the tacky Chinese topsheets.

if you plan to store a Chinese topshete, spread teh Olive Oil, and immediately slap on that protective film tight and voilla! You are ready to mothball that sucker for years to come!
So...do I mix 'em then spread it?
Or do I spread them individually?

Der_Echte
01-02-2013, 12:53 PM
If you want to clean and restore, mix both together and then rub on topsheet, let sit a minute or two, then wipe off with clean towel.

To make long term storage of a rubber, rub in a liberal ammount of olive oil and slap on a protective sheet as best you can and you are set to store it.

XIII
01-03-2013, 07:45 AM
If you want to clean and restore, mix both together and then rub on topsheet, let sit a minute or two, then wipe off with clean towel.

To make long term storage of a rubber, rub in a liberal ammount of olive oil and slap on a protective sheet as best you can and you are set to store it.
Thanks for duh info!
I might save some cash now.

GalaxyRacer
01-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Just so people are fully informed before trying any of this.

I think anything that changes the playing characteristics of your rubber is deemed illegal.

I do not play at a high enough standard or take the game seriously enough to get bothered one way or the other but I can think a a number of players who would be unhappy if they felt their opponent was breaking the rules in order to gain an advantage. for some it is a contenscious issue.

I do believe the rule is specific to the playing characteristics of the rubber SURFACE, and the sponge is only mentioned when considering the overall thickness of the blade. As for the speed glue ban, it was made illegal due to health concerns regarding the players, not so much the effect on the game. The 40mm ball was the ITTF's attempt at restoring a pace that is easier to follow along for the lay person.

I agree with Belisar. I do not play at high enough a standard to make much of a stink about this, just wanted to chime in!

XIII
01-04-2013, 05:10 AM
I do believe the rule is specific to the playing characteristics of the rubber SURFACE, and the sponge is only mentioned when considering the overall thickness of the blade. As for the speed glue ban, it was made illegal due to health concerns regarding the players, not so much the effect on the game. The 40mm ball was the ITTF's attempt at restoring a pace that is easier to follow along for the lay person.

I agree with Belisar. I do not play at high enough a standard to make much of a stink about this, just wanted to chime in!
Someone should make a speed glue that doesn't harm health.

Bishop Rasta 27
01-07-2013, 07:26 AM
m just wondering how a glue can increase speed when the term "glue" is synonymous as "to stick"...?:)

phillypong
03-17-2013, 09:40 PM
ok now back to some useful info on boosting to restore ols rubber

i succesfully restored a Tibhar Genius (red 1,8mm , the standard Genius!) with paraffine on the sponge and on the outer surface, the Genius was really completely inable to generate any spin
now i would guess it has 90% of its spin back !!

anyone triede to boost/restore an old Tenergy (05, 64, 05 fx ...), please report on your results !!

cheers !!

UpSideDownCarl
03-18-2013, 02:46 AM
I do believe the rule is specific to the playing characteristics of the rubber SURFACE, and the sponge is only mentioned when considering the overall thickness of the blade. As for the speed glue ban, it was made illegal due to health concerns regarding the players, not so much the effect on the game. The 40mm ball was the ITTF's attempt at restoring a pace that is easier to follow along for the lay person.

I agree with Belisar. I do not play at high enough a standard to make much of a stink about this, just wanted to chime in!

Actually, this is not accurate. How speed glue and boost work is that they cause the sponge to expand which puts the topsheet on tension, causes the sponge to be softer and have more deformation, so the ball sinks in more to the topsheet that is on tension and therefore has more grip, and what you get is a rubber that is faster, grippier, has more spin and better control. So the rule applies to chemicals you put on the sponge more than to anything else. This is why they now use water based glue instead of the old rubber cement.

Now, I do think it is a little silly for them to ban substances that are not hazardous to your health. But they have. I also think it is universally ignored and I don't think the rule makes much sense and I don't think it matters too much.

The info phillypong is presenting can help prolong the life of your rubber so you spend less money. I am all for that.

UpSideDownCarl
03-18-2013, 02:49 AM
i succesfully restored a Tibhar Genius (red 1,8mm , the standard Genius!) with paraffine on the sponge and on the outer surface, the Genius was really completely inable to generate any spin
now i would guess it has 90% of its spin back !!

Step by step, how did you do it. How much did you put on the sponge? How much on the topsheet? How many layers? How long did you wait while the paraffin sunk in?

phillypong
03-21-2013, 01:11 PM
Step by step, how did you do it. How much did you put on the sponge? How much on the topsheet? How many layers? How long did you wait while the paraffin sunk in?
i used normal lamp oil paraffine, i put just one layer of paraffine on the sponge with a brush (maybe 2 teaspoons of oil, really not much, just to cover the sponge with one thin layer)), let it dry for an hour , just 3 drops on the topsheet, rubbed these in evenly on the surface with my finger and a wait of lets say also an hour

glued the rubber to the blade with standard water based glue

UpSideDownCarl
03-21-2013, 03:42 PM
i used normal lamp oil paraffine, i put just one layer of paraffine on the sponge with a brush (maybe 2 teaspoons of oil, really not much, just to cover the sponge with one thin layer)), let it dry for an hour , just 3 drops on the topsheet, rubbed these in evenly on the surface with my finger and a wait of lets say also an hour

glued the rubber to the blade with standard water based glue

And you put the glue on after the paraffin sunk in: after the the 1 hour wait after you put the paraffin on?

phillypong
03-21-2013, 04:17 PM
And you put the glue on after the paraffin sunk in: after the the 1 hour wait after you put the paraffin on?

i glue after 1 hour , but you can wait even longer if you want to
the whole process is really not that time critical, you can experiment a little depending on your rubber

this thread is supposed to inform everybody on which rubbers you revived , so we can get to know which ones work well on paraffine

as a rule of thumb i would say all the rubbers that are made of 100% natural rubber should react very well on the paraffine (or WD40)

Barricade
04-20-2013, 04:55 AM
Can any kind of cooking oil be used as a substitute for boosters?

yurybarquero
04-22-2013, 04:02 PM
For boosting I dont know but to recover the grip of the rubber you can use cooking oil...

mrrybnik
04-22-2013, 05:42 PM
That's actually some really nice tips ! Although i stoped buying rubbers even if i propably should ;) I'll still try this out and see what happens. Thanks for the idea ! :)

mdazeem942
04-25-2013, 07:37 AM
i glue after 1 hour , but you can wait even longer if you want to
the whole process is really not that time critical, you can experiment a little depending on your rubber

this thread is supposed to inform everybody on which rubbers you revived , so we can get to know which ones work well on paraffine

as a rule of thumb i would say all the rubbers that are made of 100% natural rubber should react very well on the paraffine (or WD40)

Is that means, i can also use WD40 instead of paraffine/lamp oil/karosene and apply it 2 layers on the sponge and few drops on the top sheet (as what u did) and get the same result? How do you get rid of the smell from the paraffin?

revulucao
04-29-2013, 11:33 AM
i haved now misture olive oil + lemon juice and applied one layer on the topsheet of a old rubber. i will tell you the result in half hour. (much more olive oil than lemon juice)

revulucao
04-29-2013, 12:00 PM
i haved now misture olive oil + lemon juice and applied one layer on the topsheet of a old rubber. i will tell you the result in half hour. (much more olive oil than lemon juice)

ok i think it works. i used a tackiness-D almost dead and now i can generate some more spin. i am waiting to see the result in a long term of period and then apply in my bat. it is safe to apply in my bat?

hipnotic
04-29-2013, 12:38 PM
Tens de ter cuidado, eu fiz isso na minha H3 e ela expandiu muito. A borracha ficou também com um aspecto diferente. Por outro lado, ficou mais "saltitona" e não parece tão morta.

revulucao
04-29-2013, 08:01 PM
Tens de ter cuidado, eu fiz isso na minha H3 e ela expandiu muito. A borracha ficou também com um aspecto diferente. Por outro lado, ficou mais "saltitona" e não parece tão morta.

mas ficou boa para se jogar? melhor?

revulucao
04-29-2013, 08:02 PM
I had used paraffin oil twice. First on my neo H3 39 degree and then on neo H3 40 degree. On both the occasions, my rubbers got bubble and were spoiled.

so unplayable? :(

hipnotic
04-29-2013, 08:41 PM
Para o meu gosto sim porque a borracha fica um pouco mais mole também. O que eu faço é usar o óleo de bebe, 2 a 3 camadas para expandir a esponja, depois colo e aplico o oleo de bebe na borracha o que cria ainda mais tensão. Acho que fica bastante mais jogável. Nunca tive problemas com bolhas na H3 mas tive numa LKT.

revulucao
04-29-2013, 09:14 PM
resulta melhor oleo de bebe do que azeite?

hipnotic
04-30-2013, 01:27 AM
O que resulta melhor até é vaselina líquida que é o componente principal do óleo de bebe. Encontras à venda no maxmat muito barato.

Olio
04-30-2013, 09:54 AM
Can you please write in English so we can all share the information?

hipnotic
04-30-2013, 11:49 AM
Yeah, sorry. Basically i just said that i use paraffin oil to boost my h3 and it works better than baby or olive oil. Apllied on the topsheet after glueing it creates more tension because she expands alot. The topsheet looks and plays different. I like it, some may not...

mdazeem942
05-02-2013, 06:25 AM
Yeah, sorry. Basically i just said that i use paraffin oil to boost my h3 and it works better than baby or olive oil. Apllied on the topsheet after glueing it creates more tension because she expands alot. The topsheet looks and plays different. I like it, some may not...

hello hipnotic..can you list step by step in detail how do you apply parrafin oil on your h3? how do you get rid smell of parrafin / kerosene oil? and did your rubber bubbled after you apply it? thx.

hipnotic
05-02-2013, 02:00 PM
I may have said the name wrong because i don't know the exact translation. What i use is a outdoor lamp oil, it doesn't have any smell and is red in color. I also use liquid paraffin. The lamp oil has a faster drying period and a more pronounced effect than the liquid paraffin but doesn't last as long. After some experimenting what i do for untuned rubbers is:
Apply the lamp oil to the sponge, one teaspoon more or less and spread with a brush. Let it dry
Apply the liquid paraffin, spread and let it dry (Half a day normally)
If the rubber is very curled i stop, otherwise i repeat the last step.
Glue the rubber to the blade.
On chinese rubbers i apply about two layers of liquid paraffin to the rubber, letting them dry between applications. This step creates more tension in the rubber because the topsheet expands alot. It almost seems it will jump out of the bat.
If you do this last step with the rubber unglued you will reverse de dome making the rubber easier to glue but i think it turns out too mushy for my taste.