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View Full Version : attacking style have a steeper learning curve than defending style?



Yang
12-14-2013, 05:23 PM
I have been training hard using penhold reverse backhand for 5 months now. I used to play traditional per hold style 20 years ago at age of 10. After such a long break, I started everything from beginning. My style is loop, loop attack from forehand and back hand. In training, I feel confident and my coach said I played well. However, when it comes to matches, I always lose to player in 50s, 60s who does nothing but chop and push, or players with long pimple who only block. It is very frustrating as I don't feel they have better tecknique than me. In stead, they win by my mistake. My question is, am I on he right track of training? How can I beat these defensive players?

stanlee_jo
12-14-2013, 06:35 PM
from my limited experience , game against defensive players require patience and control, even though your style is offensive , do not initiate attack , take a few points lead . try push game, I try not to loop , since most returns are dead ball, better to drive flat , and build up the rally and finally setup your finish .
be patient and dont rush the shots ,slow down the tempo, applying our training ,in match conditions is in itself a separate training perspective .
Thanks,
S

Yang
12-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Thanks for the advice. I think you are right I lack of patience, especially when my opponent push long ball to my forehand. I tend to hit hard and miss too much. I also have a problem against very high chopped balls with back spin. When I loop this kind of ball it is always too far. When it drive it goes to the net.

Der_Echte
12-14-2013, 11:11 PM
Yang, a few months after 20 yrs and for all intents and purposes starting all over again... a few months is not enough time to learn how to read spin, anticipate shots, know the path and kick and timing of the ball. There is no way any of us gets to a real competent level in just a few months.

These players you face who are over 50 might very well have played decades doing what they do. A new player who has a much better offense (even if it is strong, but inconsistent) will cope well vs a very experienced player who simply gets the ball back to zones you are either uncomfortable or attack with low percentage.

Myself, I like facing such players. My offense is stronger than my playing level, so I relish playing vs a player who I know will not punish me for not attacking strongly.

You will have to give it time.

Let's suppose you play a similar style to them... Do you suppose you could defeat these same players playing the same way? Probably not. You likely do not push or block as well as them. You probably would give them chances to decisively attack and your defense would not hold up. Do you believe you can succeed vs these players using only passive shots or just keeping it on the table without a plan? Prolly not. These older players may play conventional or unconventional, but they sure know how to play with what they got. You under-rate them and they eat you for lunch, then burp. I think they can just give you a block or push because you are not showing them that you can attack with enough spin, pace, or placement to really put them under pressure, and/or you are not able to read spin well enough and all they got to do is simply get the ball back and let you make the mistakes.

Once you get really good at reading spin and sounder in your attacking fundamentals, you will soon enough punish a player who simply gets the ball back, then later, you cope better vs those who get it back with a plan to your weak zones.

Yang
12-15-2013, 01:24 AM
Der_Echte

Thanks for your advice and I learned a lot. I am weak in reading spins, especially in receving serves. My attack is sometimes powerful but not consistent, and I tend to hit with power when my body is not in good position for the shot.

I will continue training with my style and let's see what happen after some more time.

Der_Echte
12-15-2013, 03:32 AM
I lost many matches my first few years of playing I thought I should win. I had the better looking offense, more spin, more power, but lost. it wasn't fair I thought. Why should someone who is not taking risk be so rewarded? After all, it is who attacks first should win, so I thought. Until I got more consistant and overall better, it remained that way.

UpSideDownCarl
12-15-2013, 05:30 AM
I think Der_Echte has summed things up pretty well. If you are making mistakes and they are winning, then they are probably doing some things that you are not fully aware of like changing spins, heavy, light, dead. Watch a higher level offensive player who beats those guys and see what he does. When someone is high enough level they don't make as many mistakes because they read the spin and their technique is good enough not keep getting the ball on the table and their offense is good enough to put the ball away when the opportunity is there and they know when that opportunity is and isn't there.

Also, it is a bit unfair to yourself to compare technique that has been developed for 5 months with someone who has been doing what they are doing for countless years. Keep playing. At some point you will be able to read the spin, spin all your loops safely on the table and know when you can rip the ball past someone.

ttmonster
12-15-2013, 09:25 AM
Okay, so here are some thought and tips to add to what Der Echte and Carl has told you .

First accept that our game has lot many varied styles and techniques , some which are self developed and just as effective as what we call "copy book" . You have to understand , somebody had also developed these "copy book" techniques which became widely acknowledged as more effective for a player in the longer term. It does not necessarily mean when you are starting out learning these techniques you will be successful against "lesser known personal" techniques that have been practiced by these practitioners for decades. So accept that there is no "elitism" in table tennis , every technique is just as good as others. Its just because of the development of the sport and equipments some forms have more chances of success . Second, practice and game play is different, you have to play more matches. Infact, some of my friends used to encourage to bet small amounts of money in friendly matches to ensure that it gets as serious as tournament play.

However, also you have understand and appreciate that long pips, frictionless etc are exciting variations of table tennis and you should start loving the challenge of playing them. The key to playing long pips is to remember what spin went to the long pips because it cannot create spin on its own. Recently , I heard from my friends back in California that one of the more accomplished players in our club Dr. Shuja Jaffar defeated two times U.S. National Champion Tiimothy Wang in the California Open and created quite a commotion. And what is Shuja's style of play? Primarily over the table chop block using long pips and flat hitting with forehand. Of course, with a lot of skill and intelligence behind it :) . Remember, using long pips effectively is a skill in itself, it does not take away anything from the player if he is using Long, Pips.
Now how to get over your current woes :
1. Footwork , foot work , foot work !!! :) . That's the biggest hurdle to cross and it takes longer as well. So keep on practicing side to side and inside out footwork.
2. Practice pushing . Have you ever thought how less we practise push ? If you are a penhold player, you have to have a better short game and push than others, thats mandatory !!!
3. Don't use RPB over the table banana to receive serves unless you are sure that 80% of the time you will be able to get back to position to play the ball that comes back !! practise this in practice and get the skill to open the ball with the back hand flick and come back to hit a topspin on the backhand corner. I guess you understand what I am saying . You can use it as a surprise option but don't over do it .
4. Practice slow looping with a lot of rotation. its very effective.
5. don't serve short side spin or short underspin against players who can flick with long pips, serve no spin and long , remember the side spin you used if you do ( I would rather not unless you remember that side under is going to become side top etc. ) and attack the next ball. Also , another trick I used against long pips players is that I don't want to stay away from their long pips unless there are very very good with it , I purposefully play against their long pips. There are two reasons. One is that it separates the men from the boys, who really know how to use long pips vis-a-vis who are just hiding their weak side. Number two it takes away the fear factor and gets the opponent thinking. Also, it helps you to develop your game.

I think I have told you most of the techniques I use against such players, the other quick fire way is to do a difficult to read and return serves, however, remember the return will also be difficult for such serves and also sometimes having super serves slows down the development.

Yang
12-15-2013, 11:24 AM
Hi ttmonster

thanks for your advice and I will keep it in mind. I have a very bad record against long pimps as I didn't understand how the spin works. I practiced a lot of bh banana flick and bh loop against back spin. However, in matches my opponents often create much stronger backspin than in training. My backhand attack has low chance of success. My forehand loop is ok when my body is in right position. Like you said I need more footwork training.

anyway, I think I have the basic stokes right. I need apply these in matches and practice things I normally ignore like receiving serve. Push, footwork, read spin, and most importantly be patient. I obviously underestimated these defensive players. They don't use fancy techniques but have good control of the game and better feeling of the ball.

ttmonster
12-15-2013, 12:34 PM
You are welcome Yang !!! I can totally identify with what you are going through and thats why I shared my thought process and my experience with you. Best of luck with your table tennis !!! Don't forget to have fun !!! :)

Hi ttmonster

thanks for your advice and I will keep it in mind. I have a very bad record against long pimps as I didn't understand how the spin works. I practiced a lot of bh banana flick and bh loop against back spin. However, in matches my opponents often create much stronger backspin than in training. My backhand attack has low chance of success. My forehand loop is ok when my body is in right position. Like you said I need more footwork training.

anyway, I think I have the basic stokes right. I need apply these in matches and practice things I normally ignore like receiving serve. Push, footwork, read spin, and most importantly be patient. I obviously underestimated these defensive players. They don't use fancy techniques but have good control of the game and better feeling of the ball.