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TTHopeful
02-25-2014, 09:23 PM
This interview has been taken from MNNB blog: http://www.dohastadiumplusqatar.com/level-playing-field/

http://www.dohastadiumplusqatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/table-tennis.jpg

Is the ITTF going to change table tennis balls?

From the technology point of view, we’re going to reduce speed. In fact, we’re developing a technology test, which’ll have a bounce limit. If you see Chinese players performing the stroke, it’s difficult to see the ball. This has to slow down. We’re also changing balls. FIFA made the balls lighter and faster, but we’re changing balls from celluloid to plastic for less spin and bounce. We want to slow down the game a little bit. It’ll come into effect from July 1, which, I think, is going to be a very big change in the sport.

Will there be any change on the racquet?

In the past, we’ve tried various ways to control the power of the racquet. But players are always ahead of us. They’ve tried other means, which made the action faster. Now we’ve decided to measure the racquet from the outside. The racquets will have a bounce limit as well. We’ll introduce this next year. However, there’ll be no changes in table dimensions.

What do you think?

agold
02-25-2014, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the info! I disagree with the racquet bounce. I think that if every player can get every rubber, it shouldn't be restricted unless it is harmful, like speed glue

ttmonster
02-26-2014, 01:01 AM
This is great news !! Once ITTF fails in this pursuit , they will start increasing the length of the table and the height of the net and so on and so forth and just in a matter of few days .. voila !!! you will get to see your favorite table tennis player say zhang jike playing your favorite tennis player say roger federer !!!!!! Now then we can get millions of dollars in prize money and sponsorship

craniumburn
02-26-2014, 01:26 AM
just when I found the blade I was looking for all these years :mad:
..well its back to the drawing board.

Tony's Table Tennis
02-26-2014, 06:04 AM
The problem is just like basketball.
It requires the other countries to step up, than oppose to ask Team USA to send a weaker or reduce squad to the Olympic or World Championships.
If the other countries fail, then even this weaker Team USA will win comfortably, right?

I am wondering, what else China can do to "help" the world and put themselves in a more disadvantage.....
They are training the "enemies" and making them stronger.
They are sending less players to world events
They are sponsoring foreign players/teams to take part in Chinese leagues
They are doing more marketing to promote the sport than ever before
They fund and provide coaches for some countries (exchange programs)
They enoucrage provincial teams to set up relationships with other countries (exchange programs)

There are thousands of coaches, players, practice partners in the world, that is helping the other countries. Yet, the problem is still - China is dominating the sport and its bad for the sport.

What other countries is doing 10% of what China is doing to help the sport - please list it, and then we can talk.
Other than that, the China domination is based on poor management from other national federations and until the true "root" of the problem is addressed - changing rules, adding handicaps to China, won't stop China from doing well with they "winning formula"

Anders
02-26-2014, 08:27 AM
The problem is just like basketball.
It requires the other countries to step up, than oppose to ask Team USA to send a weaker or reduce squad to the Olympic or World Championships.
If the other countries fail, then even this weaker Team USA will win comfortably, right?

I am wondering, what else China can do to "help" the world and put themselves in a more disadvantage.....
They are training the "enemies" and making them stronger.
They are sending less players to world events
They are sponsoring foreign players/teams to take part in Chinese leagues
They are doing more marketing to promote the sport than ever before
They fund and provide coaches for some countries (exchange programs)
They enoucrage provincial teams to set up relationships with other countries (exchange programs)

There are thousands of coaches, players, practice partners in the world, that is helping the other countries. Yet, the problem is still - China is dominating the sport and its bad for the sport.

What other countries is doing 10% of what China is doing to help the sport - please list it, and then we can talk.
Other than that, the China domination is based on poor management from other national federations and until the true "root" of the problem is addressed - changing rules, adding handicaps to China, won't stop China from doing well with they "winning formula"

Couldn't agree more! It's not China beeing good and professional that is the problem here, it's other countries not doing their best!

Anders
02-26-2014, 08:29 AM
BTW, why are they going to change the racket bounce? Isn't the ball change enough? Heck, we won't see players like Saive and Waldner in the future when players can't play far from the table anymore :(

Tony's Table Tennis
02-26-2014, 09:10 AM
BTW, why are they going to change the racket bounce? Isn't the ball change enough? Heck, we won't see players like Saive and Waldner in the future when players can't play far from the table anymore :(

That is plan B or Z (I lost count lol)
Basically if it loose bounce, then the ball acceleration/spin (dwelling etc) will be reduced.

I can understand making changes to fit the TV and spectator audience, but not for one countries dominance.
Past rules are changed for audience purpose, but no improvements there. Thus meaning, the root of the problem was not indentified correctly

Anders
02-26-2014, 10:26 AM
That is plan B or Z (I lost count lol)
Basically if it loose bounce, then the ball acceleration/spin (dwelling etc) will be reduced.

I can understand making changes to fit the TV and spectator audience, but not for one countries dominance.
Past rules are changed for audience purpose, but no improvements there. Thus meaning, the root of the problem was not indentified correctly

Tho we might see some more variation in equipent, more pips etc.. The game are not going to be as interesting anymore, no spin, not spectacular sidespin shots from far away, no more around the net shots.. No more epic lob shots.. What are really the pros of this adjustments?

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 10:32 AM
I really wish they'd just stop fiddling with the game. It's fine as it is and if they're not careful, they'll end up in the ridiculous situation that now faces Formula One where every year there's another new "rule" aimed at making it more competitive, due to the advances in technology.......

Alborz
02-26-2014, 11:15 AM
They are destroying the sport. They will slowdown the game to stupid beginners level:mad: ITTF is wants to destroy the sport mire than upgrading it.

Something is wrong with their rule about the limit of rackets bounce. Chinese rubbers are tacky and the ball bounces very low on them but when you hit the ball hard (like what Chinese player are doing) the ball will go faster than any Euro-Japan rubber. So Euro-japan rubbers will fail the test but they are actually slower than Chinese rubber.
Another thing is some one will start a tournament with a Chinese tacky rubber and pass the test. But during the tournament his rubber loses a bit of this tackiness and will fail the bounce test.

perniciousnc
02-26-2014, 11:17 AM
That was exactly what concerned me in a recent forum post, "against plastic ball"

it's not that change (A) or change (B) are manageable. If the ball extends rallies without changing the spin too much, maybe it's good? or bad? no one knows until the change is made.

It's how ITTF decide changes, policies that seemed ridiculous. You have to have a SUPER CLEAR OBJECTIVE before making a change that essentially change EVERYTHING about tabletennis. Sharara was talking about the objective being HEALTH ISSUE in previous cases, now it seemed clear that it was about chinese dominance, and making the sports easier and easier, less and less about skills, SUCH THAT china don't dominate, since they have more skills at the moment!? It is okay to reduce spins or something to make the sports more entertaining, and challenging and increases the required skills. but not okay for the domination reason.

ITTF decision making processes and policies' directions are just bothering me a lot.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 11:36 AM
They are destroying the sport. They will slowdown the game to stupid beginners level:mad: ITTF is wants to destroy the sport mire than upgrading it.

Something is wrong with their rule about the limit of rackets bounce. Chinese rubbers are tacky and the ball bounces very low on them but when you hit the ball hard (like what Chinese player are doing) the ball will go faster than any Euro-Japan rubber. So Euro-japan rubbers will fail the test but they are actually slower than Chinese rubber.
Another thing is some one will start a tournament with a Chinese tacky rubber and pass the test. But during the tournament his rubber loses a bit of this tackiness and will fail the bounce test.

They won't test any players at events and nor will they test blades with rubbers on because there are to many variables to consider. I think all that they'll do is test the blades (a sample set), directly from the manufacturer (as they currently do with rubbers) and test the blades by firing a ball at them without any rubbers on - i.e. directly onto the wood of the blade.

To be honest, I'm a little more cynical and think that this has nothing to do with making the sport slower, but simply to line the pockets of the ITTF with money. I can see it now "you can only use ITTF approved blades". Manufacturers will end up paying more to get this approval and thus the ITTF will pocket more money.

I use a custom hand-made blade that cost me a lot of money. It complies completely with the rules of what a racket must be (in size, thickness, construction, etc). However the person that makes it one guy out in America who does it for a hobby. I doubt he will ever pay the ITTF to have his blade approved, so it's going to impact him. Will this stop me using my blade? Nope, not at all. Plus at local league level, the amount of people who have blades that are older than me is huge. None of these will be ITTF approved but none of those players will change their blades either. This is something that will only affect the professional players I'm sure.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 12:14 PM
Couple of other points to add.

1.) FIT (Federation of International Table Tennis Manufacturers) has already declined the ITTF's request to supply sample rackets and blades. I guess they can see where this is going to go (lining the pockets of the ITTF again!). What with the introduction of the new ball and now the possible regulation of blades, I think people are getting a bit fed up with the ITTF meddling.

2.) I don't think this will ever impact at the grass roots "local league" level. I can see why it works for rubbers because they diminish over time with use and you have to replace them, but blades don't. Plus blades are much more expensive to change. Generally, players will have a couple of blades that they'll keep for years and just swap the rubbers over each season. There is no way that at local league level, any local league committee is going to say "you can only now use ITTF approved blades", it's just not going to happen.

3.) Imagine spending £150-200 on a blade only to find that the manufacturer has discontinued it a season later for a newer version. No local league player is going to go out and buy the new version (unless they have money to burn). They will continue to use their own, still new, expensive blade! Plus NOBODY will turn up to a match, look at the blade and say "sorry we can't play, it's not on the approved blade list". It's just not going to happen because at local league level, people just want to play Table Tennis and aren't bothered about whether a blade is approved or not.

Alborz
02-26-2014, 12:23 PM
They won't test any players at events and nor will they test blades with rubbers on because there are to many variables to consider. I think all that they'll do is test the blades (a sample set), directly from the manufacturer (as they currently do with rubbers) and test the blades by firing a ball at them without any rubbers on - i.e. directly onto the wood of the blade.

To be honest, I'm a little more cynical and think that this has nothing to do with making the sport slower, but simply to line the pockets of the ITTF with money. I can see it now "you can only use ITTF approved blades". Manufacturers will end up paying more to get this approval and thus the ITTF will pocket more money.

I use a custom hand-made blade that cost me a lot of money. It complies completely with the rules of what a racket must be (in size, thickness, construction, etc). However the person that makes it one guy out in America who does it for a hobby. I doubt he will ever pay the ITTF to have his blade approved, so it's going to impact him. Will this stop me using my blade? Nope, not at all. Plus at local league level, the amount of people who have blades that are older than me is huge. None of these will be ITTF approved but none of those players will change their blades either. This is something that will only affect the professional players I'm sure.
Almost all of players in my club use ITTF approved equipment. They will keep them for a long time after the change of the rules but they have to change them after some time. Our of the ball in our club is ITTF approved so the change of the ball will surely effect us and because of that we will change our equipment to adjust with the new ball. So it will effect all of the players.

They said they will make a limit for "racket" bounce not "balde" bounce. The easiest way for them is to test the pros racket before every match.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 01:08 PM
Almost all of players in my club use ITTF approved equipment. They will keep them for a long time after the change of the rules but they have to change them after some time. Our of the ball in our club is ITTF approved so the change of the ball will surely effect us and because of that we will change our equipment to adjust with the new ball. So it will effect all of the players.

They said they will make a limit for "racket" bounce not "balde" bounce. The easiest way for them is to test the pros racket before every match.

The point I'm making is that rubbers and balls are degradable in that, over time and with use, they need replacing. Currently players are more likely and willing to replace their rubbers with the latest versions because "they're going to have to change them at some point" due to the wear from use. The same goes for balls because they break and new ones have to be purchased. The same doesn't apply to blades because a good quality blade does not deteriorate to anywhere near the same extent. I know players who have top quality wood blades that are over 20 years old and although a little tarnished, are still in great condition.

The other major factor here is the "cost to change". Rubbers and balls are relatively cheap to replace. However a good quality blade can be up to four times the price of the most expensive rubbers. Most TT players I know do not have the disposable income to simply buy the latest approved blade.

Finally, I cannot see a scientific way for blades to be tested at events. It's just not feasible or practical. What are they going to do, bounce the ball on the blade? How hard do they have to bounce it? It would have to be the same force each time in order to get an accurate measurement. A human cannot do this so they'd have to have a machine. What about the ambient temperature in the room. This will affect the flight of the ball, so it would need to be a default temperature. What happens if the rubber passes after the first match, but through use it heats up and becomes more supple. Do they re-test for the second match?

Testing at events is impossible and there are too many factors and variables that will affect the results. The only way to test is using the same machine, in the same conditions, at the manufacturers without any rubbers on the blade.

This reminds me of the frictionless long pimple ban back in 2008. They said all rubbers had to be under 25nm of friction, yet as far as I know, they've never tested any rubbers at any events by bringing a machine along. All they do is test a sample set of rubbers sent from the manufacturers to ensure that they're above this nM limit. However there's no doubt that some rubbers will go below this limit over time with use. They are still "legal" because the rule applies to the manufacturer and not the player and I'd imagine in the case of any rules on blades, this will be the same.

Alborz
02-26-2014, 02:40 PM
The point I'm making is that rubbers and balls are degradable in that, over time and with use, they need replacing. Currently players are more likely and willing to replace their rubbers with the latest versions because "they're going to have to change them at some point" due to the wear from use. The same goes for balls because they break and new ones have to be purchased. The same doesn't apply to blades because a good quality blade does not deteriorate to anywhere near the same extent. I know players who have top quality wood blades that are over 20 years old and although a little tarnished, are still in great condition.

The other major factor here is the "cost to change". Rubbers and balls are relatively cheap to replace. However a good quality blade can be up to four times the price of the most expensive rubbers. Most TT players I know do not have the disposable income to simply buy the latest approved blade.

Finally, I cannot see a scientific way for blades to be tested at events. It's just not feasible or practical. What are they going to do, bounce the ball on the blade? How hard do they have to bounce it? It would have to be the same force each time in order to get an accurate measurement. A human cannot do this so they'd have to have a machine. What about the ambient temperature in the room. This will affect the flight of the ball, so it would need to be a default temperature. What happens if the rubber passes after the first match, but through use it heats up and becomes more supple. Do they re-test for the second match?

Testing at events is impossible and there are too many factors and variables that will affect the results. The only way to test is using the same machine, in the same conditions, at the manufacturers without any rubbers on the blade.

This reminds me of the frictionless long pimple ban back in 2008. They said all rubbers had to be under 25nm of friction, yet as far as I know, they've never tested any rubbers at any events by bringing a machine along. All they do is test a sample set of rubbers sent from the manufacturers to ensure that they're above this nM limit. However there's no doubt that some rubbers will go below this limit over time with use. They are still "legal" because the rule applies to the manufacturer and not the player and I'd imagine in the case of any rules on blades, this will be the same.
It's not hard to test the racket. Just drop a ball from a specific height and see the ball bounces how high on the racket. It's very easy and simple and can be done in 20 second!

It isn't important how they are going to test them. The important thing is that they are going to slow down and destroy the game just because the domination of China :mad:
I hope manufactures to come up with some super fast and spiny rubbers to counteract the negative effects of new rules and table tennis can continue it's current game style.

The worth thing is slowing the rackets will not effect Chinese players since Chinese players are using tacky not bouncy rubbers. It will only make the task harder for other players because they are using bouncy rubbers.

I have National Hurricane 3. If i drop the ball form 10cm height on it, it will stick to rubber and will not bounce at all but when i play a power-loop the balls flies faster than any other rubber such as all of Tenergies that i played with them. That rubber will pass the test but the Tenergy will not even Hurricane is much faster.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 03:34 PM
It's not hard to test the racket. Just drop a ball from a specific height and see the ball bounces how high on the racket. It's very easy and simple and can be done in 20 second!

It isn't important how they are going to test them. The important thing is that they are going to slow down and destroy the game just because the domination of China file:///C:\Users\CBUE~1.LII\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png
I hope manufactures to come up with some super fast and spiny rubbers to counteract the negative effects of new rules and table tennis can continue it's current game style.

Sorry I disagree, it's very important how they will test them. If they are going to disqualify people at tournaments for having "illegal equipment", then they need to fully justify it. Can you imagine a situation where Timo Boll is not allowed to play because the ref has bounced the ball on his blade and "thinks" it may not conform to the bounce rules? That is never going to happen. What about all of those fans who have turned up to see Timo play? What about Timo himself? It's just not feasible.

Just in practical terms, the ref has to perform a proper test in order to be able to accurately assess the blade.

The ref is not going to just hold the ball from any given height and bounce it on the racket, then subjectively say “I think it might be bouncing higher than allowed”. I can’t see, by simply looking, how the ref will determine if it’s within the “bounce regulations”. What’s he going to do, hold up a ruler up to ensure that the ball doesn’t bounce above a certain height? If so, he’ll have to ensure that the ball is dropped from a specific height and how exactly will he measure how high it bounces? With the ruler again? He'd better have very fast eyes because I don't know anyone who could do this accurately. I'd imagine he'd need a slow motion camera to capture the bounce height to measure it accurately? Oh and what happens if he performs the bounce test in one room where the ambient temperature is different to another room - i.e. the blade may pass the test in one room but fail in another.

There are too many variables and simply bouncing the ball on the bat won’t be enough….

One last thing I will say is that I do find it slightly amusing how people are getting frustrated and annoyed at the ITTF are trying to slow down and destroy the game. They’ve been doing this for years, but most of their changes haven’t had an impact on the majority of players. I used to use frictionless long pimples but they were banned because they wanted to remove a style of play. I’ve had to re-adapt my game with friction pimples, which is fine, but because I’m in a minority (of users playing with these sorts of rubbers), nobody really challenged the ITTF. I just wonder now, with the changes to the balls, the blades and the general tinkering over the last few years, how long it’ll be before players and national associations get bored and distance themselves from the ITTF.

The game is fine as it is. They’ve already changed a number of rules so that the game is apparently “better” to watch on TV – Changing the scoring system from 21-up to 11-up, now they’re changing the balls to slow it down…and the blades to slow it down more, they’ve removed speed gluing to slow it down further (blaming health and safety lol!!). The list goes on and will continue to go on until people get fed up and vote with their feet!!

ZJK
02-26-2014, 03:46 PM
This interview really sounds like they want to destroy the sport..
Heavy spin on the ball is what makes table tennis unique. You won't be able to play table tennis with the same spin than tennis. (or if you do so, 90% will quit table tennis)
Making the net higher to slow down serve and reverse would be reasonable, but reducing spin is just crap.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 03:50 PM
...

The worth thing is slowing the rackets will not effect Chinese players since Chinese players are using tacky not bouncy rubbers. It will only make the task harder for other players because they are using bouncy rubbers.

I have National Hurricane 3. If i drop the ball form 10cm height on it, it will stick to rubber and will not bounce at all but when i play a power-loop the balls flies faster than any other rubber such as all of Tenergies that i played with them. That rubber will pass the test but the Tenergy will not even Hurricane is much faster.

So, and with respect, your suggestion of simply "dropping the ball from a specific height" doesn't work with what you've added above does it?

Let's also add in that a major component of the rubber's speed comes from its reaction to lateral loading. For example, when you loop, block against loop, push against chop, etc. A test of flat bounce says nothing about the behaviour with lateral load. As I've said previously, the maximum bounce will depend on racket configuration and testing conditions.

Alborz
02-26-2014, 03:50 PM
Sorry I disagree, it's very important how they will test them. If they are going to disqualify people at tournaments for having "illegal equipment", then they need to fully justify it. Can you imagine a situation where Timo Boll is not allowed to play because the ref has bounced the ball on his blade and "thinks" it may not conform to the bounce rules? That is never going to happen. What about all of those fans who have turned up to see Timo play? What about Timo himself? It's just not feasible.

Just in practical terms, the ref has to perform a proper test in order to be able to accurately assess the blade.

The ref is not going to just hold the ball from any given height and bounce it on the racket, then subjectively say “I think it might be bouncing higher than allowed”. I can’t see, by simply looking, how the ref will determine if it’s within the “bounce regulations”. What’s he going to do, hold up a ruler up to ensure that the ball doesn’t bounce above a certain height? If so, he’ll have to ensure that the ball is dropped from a specific height and how exactly will he measure how high it bounces? With the ruler again? He'd better have very fast eyes because I don't know anyone who could do this accurately. I'd imagine he'd need a slow motion camera to capture the bounce height to measure it accurately? Oh and what happens if he performs the bounce test in one room where the ambient temperature is different to another room - i.e. the blade may pass the test in one room but fail in another.

There are too many variables and simply bouncing the ball on the bat won’t be enough….

One last thing I will say is that I do find it slightly amusing how people are getting frustrated and annoyed at the ITTF are trying to slow down and destroy the game. They’ve been doing this for years, but most of their changes haven’t had an impact on the majority of players. I used to use frictionless long pimples but they were banned because they wanted to remove a style of play. I’ve had to re-adapt my game with friction pimples, which is fine, but because I’m in a minority (of users playing with these sorts of rubbers), nobody really challenged the ITTF. I just wonder now, with the changes to the balls, the blades and the general tinkering over the last few years, how long it’ll be before players and national associations get bored and distance themselves from the ITTF.

The game is fine as it is. They’ve already changed a number of rules so that the game is apparently “better” to watch on TV – Changing the scoring system from 21-up to 11-up, now they’re changing the balls to slow it down…and the blades to slow it down more, they’ve removed speed gluing to slow it down further (blaming health and safety lol!!). The list goes on and will continue to go on until people get fed up and vote with their feet!!
I'm agree with you that a time will come that payers will not care about ITTF and leave it. Anyway if ITTF stop slowing down the game after those rules then it still be sustainable. But more than that, TT world will drop ITTF in the bin of history and make their own fedration.

If ITTF test rubbers and blades at the factory so manufactures can sent super fast rubber to pros with a logo one of those that is ITTF approved rubbers. So that Pro will use a illegal racket but ITTF thinks it's legal. A good way to pass the rules for Pros! I hope it actually be like that so pros can still use the blades they prefer.

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 03:58 PM
This interview really sounds like they want to destroy the sport..
Heavy spin on the ball is what makes table tennis unique. You won't be able to play table tennis with the same spin than tennis. (or if you do so, 90% will quit table tennis)
Making the net higher to slow down serve and reverse would be reasonable, but reducing spin is just crap.

Let's be blunt here. All they are doing is trying to make the sport better to watch on TV (and I use the word better very loosely!!) by slowing the game down. So far to achieve this they have:

1.) Changed the scoring system, presumably to try and hold people's attention when watching on TV. I doubt this change has had a major impact on TV ratings!
2.) Banned the use of speed gluing (based on health and safety reasons), but really it was to slow the game down.
3.) Making a change to the ball, purely based on environmental manufacturing reasons, but in reality it's just to slow the game down again.
4.) A suggestion to change the speed a blade can be, again to slow it down further.

What next? Slower tables? Higher nets? The tinkering will just go on and on and to be honest, I don't know why they just can't leave the game alone!

chrisbuer
02-26-2014, 04:03 PM
I'm agree with you that a time will come that payers will not care about ITTF and leave it. Anyway if ITTF stop slowing down the game after those rules then it still be sustainable. But more than that, TT world will drop ITTF in the bin of history and make their own fedration.

If ITTF test rubbers and blades at the factory so manufactures can sent super fast rubber to pros with a logo one of those that is ITTF approved rubbers. So that Pro will use a illegal racket but ITTF thinks it's legal. A good way to pass the rules for Pros! I hope it actually be like that so pros can still use the blades they prefer.

What you've described is exactly what will happen.

M51
02-26-2014, 08:44 PM
This is ludicrous. The only measure they should be taking is raising the net by half of an inch or so. This would force players to produce more arc in their attacks and put more emphasis on spin instead of power and speed. Limiting the bounce of racquets is the single most idiotic idea I've ever heard. The only thing this will achieve is keep the players from moving away from the table which will make the game even less appealing for general audiences than it already is.

Raising the net would have some downsides too, of course. For one, clubs would suddenly find themselves in need of replacing dozens of obsolete nets, and this wouldn't exactly come cheap for some of the poorer clubs.

Kaiwen
02-26-2014, 10:13 PM
Maybe, the table tennis must change his ITTF president for survive!?!? no???

Alborz
02-27-2014, 04:00 AM
What you've described is exactly what will happen.
I hope so. So table tennis still could be fast and spiny.

chrisbuer
02-27-2014, 07:29 AM
This is ludicrous. The only measure they should be taking is raising the net by half of an inch or so. This would force players to produce more arc in their attacks and put more emphasis on spin instead of power and speed. Limiting the bounce of racquets is the single most idiotic idea I've ever heard. The only thing this will achieve is keep the players from moving away from the table which will make the game even less appealing for general audiences than it already is.


Raising the net would have some downsides too, of course. For one, clubs would suddenly find themselves in need of replacing dozens of obsolete nets, and this wouldn't exactly come cheap for some of the poorer clubs.

To be honest, they don't need to change anything. The game is really exciting to watch at the moment and if these changes are really to try and undermine Chinese dominance, then I can tell you now that it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference.

The Chinese aren't better than the rest of the world because their equipment is faster. They're better because they train hard and have a differnet ethos to the game. A friend of mine went to China and did a 10 day training camp and said that the way they train is like nothing he's ever seen. There were amateur players training 9 hours a day and living at the camp, eating and sleeping! He said there were even table tennis tables in the local parks where anyone could play. Apparently there were two elderly men having a hit and he reckoned their standard was better than the premier league that we play in! That's the difference....not how bouncy the blade is.




Maybe, the table tennis must change his ITTF president for survive!?!? no???


The ITTF need a serious shake up as the current bunch are too focused on tinkering and I don't think it's always to the betterment of the game. Im not close enough to it, but a few people I know who are suggest that the current committee all scratch each other's backs which isn't particularly democratic.

perniciousnc
02-27-2014, 07:40 AM
If it's a management consulting team, consulting for a big company (the world table tennis industry is way bigger) and they heard the plan.

they would go like, wth is the objective. why are we changing, wt are we changing for? the current plan is, to change until someone other than the chinese won the wttc and olympics. according to ittf, 2003 world cup was the best world cup for obvious reason. i think it was really great.

but changing the game (spin speed) significantly for dominance reason is ridiculous. I know they go through votes etc. but I often see it as Sharara has lots of say and power and influence, and from the pick of his commentator and website and ittv, i'm not sure if he thinks tactics and watches many matches on ittv like we do. if he does that, he woudl realize he can spend far less money to acheive a lot more, before risking the sports entirely

M51
02-27-2014, 01:13 PM
To be honest, they don't need to change anything. The game is really exciting to watch at the moment
To us TT fanatics, sure. But your average Joe finds it boring. That's just how it is and it can't be sugar coated.


and if these changes are really to try and undermine Chinese dominance, then I can tell you now that it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference.
It shouldn't be about undermining the Chinese, though. Changes should be about making TT enjoyable for everyone, not just us.


He said there were even table tennis tables in the local parks where anyone could play.
Every other park in my hometown (Rijeka, Croatia) has a concrete table tennis table, and I see kids using them all the time (when the weather allows it... Rijeka being one of the rainiest cities in Europe and all). And yet, when my club plays a home match in Croatian Super league, non of these kids even think of showing up, even though they obviously like the game, there are banners all over the place, and we're not charging for admission (there were literally 30 people in the stands this Saturday, I counted myself).

I don't think Chinese dominance is the cause of our sport's lack of mass appeal. It doesn't help, sure, but still...

Tony's Table Tennis
02-27-2014, 01:21 PM
Regarding sports-marketing.
No other country is doing it as well as America and China.
Best out of rest is your Soccer/Football in Europe and South America.

This is a culture/marketing problem. And not the sport itself.

For example - Cricket.
In Melbourne, the stadium is big and it can fill up to 90000 people in 1 day.
While in South Africa - Cape Town, it can full up to 40000, but we are lucky to get even 30000.
Both city has around 4 to 5 million people, and the ticket price in Melbourne is 3 times the price in Cape Town.
The same sport is played, but some countries have more sport supporting culture than others.

In USA, you get more audience at a local high school basketball match, than you would in most countries national TT tournaments.


If TT takes off professional in USA, then this will help TT world wide alot.
Many American sports which turn pro, are making huge headlines for other countries too.
Its like a stepping stone, you do well in your country, you can play pro in the US

Alborz
02-27-2014, 01:34 PM
Maybe, the table tennis must change his ITTF president for survive!?!? no???
I say yes. but maybe the next president will be worth! Someone must stop him from destroying table tennis.
They forgot 99% of TT watchers are TT players and they enjoy watching fast TT not to guys playing the same speed as what they are doing every day.
If the problem is the domination of China then they should help other countries to improve not changing the rues until a none Chinese player win a WTTC or OG. Chinese players are the best because they train 9 hours every single they not because their equipment is fast.
Maybe ITTF ban training more than 5 yours a week in future so none Chinese players will get as good as Chinese players.

Nice going ITTF. Nice going.
5527

UpSideDownCarl
02-27-2014, 01:54 PM
The stupidity here is that they are trying to mess with things that are fine to make the sport more spectator friendly rather than fixing things that can be fixed.

First, Chinese dominance won't be changed by making the game slower. They will still train more than anyone else; they will still have better training techniques than anyone else; they will still be more organized and focused on training.

Second, Chinese dominance is not the problem. If people really wanted to change that, other countries should train the way the Chinese do. It is not a secret any more.

Third, if they want to make Table Tennis more popular and more viewed around the world, then they should have more and better camera angles, and more and better table tennis commentators. They also should have commentators on every match in all World Tour tournaments, not just from the quarter-finals on. The graphics for the score should be in the footage of all the matches. Not that ridiculous thing they do in the matches without commentators where there is a box on the side that is showing the umpire's manual scoreboard.

They film and present the matches in a tournament as if nobody was going to watch anyway. And then they want more people to watch!!!! Completely foolish. And when nobody watches, they decide they want to change the ball to make it slower and less spinny as though that would make people watch. ITTF is run by retards.

If anything, they should look at footage from the 80s and 90s and see how many long, amazing rallies there were back then when those guys were using a 38mm ball and speed glue. The quality of the rallies back then was through the roof.

These changes they will implement will make attacking serves even easier and shorten the rallies even more.

perniciousnc
02-27-2014, 02:50 PM
The stupidity here is that they are trying to mess with things that are fine to make the sport more spectator friendly rather than fixing things that can be fixed.

First, Chinese dominance won't be changed by making the game slower. They will still train more than anyone else; they will still have better training techniques than anyone else; they will still be more organized and focused on training.

Second, Chinese dominance is not the problem. If people really wanted to change that, other countries should train the way the Chinese do. It is not a secret any more.

Third, if they want to make Table Tennis more popular and more viewed around the world, then they should have more and better camera angles, and more and better table tennis commentators. They also should have commentators on every match in all World Tour tournaments, not just from the quarter-finals on. The graphics for the score should be in the footage of all the matches. Not that ridiculous thing they do in the matches without commentators where there is a box on the side that is showing the umpire's manual scoreboard.

They film and present the matches in a tournament as if nobody was going to watch anyway. And then they want more people to watch!!!! Completely foolish. And when nobody watches, they decide they want to change the ball to make it slower and less spinny as though that would make people watch. ITTF is run by retards.

If anything, they should look at footage from the 80s and 90s and see how many long, amazing rallies there were back then when those guys were using a 38mm ball and speed glue. The quality of the rallies back then was through the roof.

These changes they will implement will make attacking serves even easier and shorten the rallies even more.


AGREE.

They don't even know how to walk (provide good quality videos and highlights and commentaries, and other basics sports stuff like websites), but they're trying to fly (to control and foresee the effect of changing the entire sports, and actually changing them every few years)

One thing I want to point out is that, WHERE is the voice for changes, especially for this particular change (reducing speed and spin significantly)? such big changes need consensus and drive from the community itself, not solely by ITTF (the powerful few)

it was also frustrating that, sometimes they say they are making the ball identical as the celluloid, everything will be similar. Sometimes they say there will be the big changes in speed and spin. changing it slower or faster is not a problem. The unclearness about objective and direction of the sport is. Where is TT going to? Be super clear about that. Such attitude is problematic. Set the objective right and then do it, not just do these randomly, and say plastic ball might be a good idea, and lets see what would happen if we change it, maybe the chinese would not dominate after we changed that, and if some nonCHN player won, it would be success for our change.

chrisbuer
02-27-2014, 03:31 PM
To us TT fanatics, sure. But your average Joe finds it boring. That's just how it is and it can't be sugar coated.

Oh I don't know about that, I think the problem is getting people (who don't play) to watch it in the first place. I know that when I went to watch the Olympics, it was quite clear that there were a lot of people there who were only there because they wanted to experience "the Olympics" rather than watch TT. They had probably won their tickets in the open ballot and some were clearly a bit fed up that they'd got the "ping pong" and not the athletics.

As I sat there looking around the crowd, there were a lot of people on their phones, seemingly uninterested in the "ping pong players" warming up (as one person behind me said). Then I saw a girl in front of me checking Google on her phone to see what the "rules of ping pong" were. However, I knew that what they were about to see would have them on the edge of their seats as Joo Se Hyuk was playing Zhang Jike.

Sure enough, after a few rallies of Joo chopping some amazing shots back, the crowd were "oohing" and "ahhing". The girl in front of me had put away her phone and was tugging on the arm of her boyfriend saying "did you see THAT!?!" and "how is he getting the ball back...wow they're so fast..." etc.

So it can be very exciting, even for non-players. However I think the game needs to advertise itself better.

M51
02-27-2014, 08:23 PM
I think the game needs to advertise itself better.
This is where ITTF fails hardest.

chrisbuer
02-27-2014, 09:01 PM
This is where ITTF fails hardest.

Exactly and changing the game so that blades are less bouncy, balls are slower and produce less spin and all of the other half cooked up ideas that they've had isn't going to solve this. I think they're focused on the wrong things and it's to the detriment of the sport.

perniciousnc
02-27-2014, 09:13 PM
the next thing to do is to, compile forum threads like this and send it to ITTF. i dunno how to communicate with ITTF effectively, i know ittf has previously answered email questions.

UpSideDownCarl
02-28-2014, 05:21 AM
The big problem is, ITTF and Sharara still have not come clean on the real motives for changing the ball. First they said it was because celluloid is not being produced and they will eventually have to change any way; so why not do it now. Now he is saying it is to slow the game down, reduce the spin and end Chinese dominance.

The real reason is to line the pockets of the TT equipment manufacturers. When the new ball comes out we will all need new blades and rubbers, not to mention balls. There will be a whole new generation of blades and rubbers "designed" to be used with the new plastic ball.

chrisbuer
02-28-2014, 07:32 AM
the next thing to do is to, compile forum threads like this and send it to ITTF. i dunno how to communicate with ITTF effectively, i know ittf has previously answered email questions.

Honestly it'll make no difference. Some of the pro players have raised their concerns about the new balls and the ITTF have not taken any notice. They've already made up their minds and there is no democratic process that will change that. They are simply going through the motions of appearing to be democratic.

I assume you also know that one of the ball designs has a patent on it. That patent is owned by a doctor who is, wait for it, married of the head of the ITTF equipment committee! Hmmm slight conflict of interest don't you think?!? I wonder which ball will get selected. Nice little earner for them both!

Back on the blades, the only hope we have on stopping them changing them is if the TT manufacturers dig their heels in. As I've mentioned already FIT (the federation of international table tennis manufacturers) has already refused to participate and the response from the ITTF has been to say "don't expect support from the ITTF in the future". Quite arrogant I'd say!

Pjotr1325
02-28-2014, 01:11 PM
I don't get it... The ITTF introduced a long, LONG ago the Time-Rule to prevent the matches lasting to long. A clear and noble cause I’m sure... but now they are trying to slow the game down? I'm not really good at math, but it sounds to me like when you slow the speed of the ball down (less ball speed sounds to me like slower and longer rally's) the result will be that matches will last longer!

The huge advantage in our wonderful sport of tabletennis is that it is one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) ball sports in the world. Don't try to take that away, because that's something to be very proud of!!!

Look at this for an example: In the 'old days' (when we played until 21 points and best-of-3 games) we had a maximum of 1 minute in between games, so that accounted for a maximum of 2 minutes extra time that a match lasted. Now according to the new rules (playing until 11 point and best-of-5 games) we still have a maximum of 1 minute in between games, BUT… when you reach the full 5 games that is 4x 1 minute EXTRA match time. And then I still don’t take in consideration the possibilities of 2 additional time-outs of 1 minute maximum each (each side can take 1 time-out during a match).

A typical match using the new rules takes on average 15-20 minutes (and then it’s a long match). If it takes up to 30-45 minutes you’ve got an extremely long match on your hands.

In tennis for example a (grand slam) match between 2 players that you very often see on TV takes up (easily) 2-4 HOURS and do you see the Tennis Federation trying to shorten those matches? Not that I know of (but of course I’m not a tennis player). If I am right the sport of tennis is one of the most practiced AND watched sport in the whole world. What do you mean ‘a match lasts to long’???

No mister Sharara, please don’t change the rules of the beautiful sport of tabletennis to win of the Chinese players, but rather look at WHY they are so successful at it. I think it has a lot to do with the many hours that they train, the way in which they train, live completely for the sport, have the advantage of the numbers (1 million Chinese players while in The Netherlands there are about 33,000 active players).

And if you want to make tabletennis more popular I think you must consider the 3 groups of people there are world wide:
Group 1: They love this sport and always will, no matter what
Group 2: The neutral group; they like to see it occasionally, but don’t mind if they don’t see it.
Group 3: They don’t give a SH.. about it ever!

My idea to make the sport more popular is to completely forget group 3. Let them and concentrated more on the 2nd group, but surely don’t forget the 1st group either (rather use them to promote the wonderful sport of tabletennis in order to reach out to the 2nd group).

These are some of the things I would like to suggest:

Let the world class player play more often against on another.
Make more pricemoney available, so the (European) players don't have to take an additional job besides the tabletennis, but can actually be a full-time pro and make a living that way.
Follow the world class players from now on with EXTENDED TV coverage (that means not only their matches, but also as in a real-life soap and lots of other TV programs/show to make people world wide can identify with them).
Use better camera angles and beter commentators who have great knowledge of the sport (are very enthousiastic about the game and know how to bring that alive in their commentary). In the sport of snooker very often the commentary is provided by previous world champions like Dennis Taylor, Steve Davis, John Parrot, Ronnie O'Sullivan and many other great players. They know how a world class player thinks like, because they were/are world class players themselves as well.
Look at other (now) popular sports; not all of them have always been popular. Darts, snooker, (field)hockey, etc. What did they do to grow up to global popular sports?


Right now I still have to ask my friends or other tabletennis players when there will be some tabletennis on TV (as a matter of fact one my friends just 5 minutes ago asked ME if I knew if and where he could watch tabletennis and he's also a tabletennisplayer!).

In short: PLEASE, DON’T CHANGE THE RULES (or balls for that matter); it doesn't help if you keep changing the rules continuously and thàt's not good for the wonderful sport of tabletennis!!!

UpSideDownCarl
02-28-2014, 05:05 PM
I don't get it... The ITTF introduced a long, LONG ago the Time-Rule to prevent the matches lasting to long. A clear and noble cause I’m sure... but now they are trying to slow the game down? I'm not really good at math, but it sounds to me like when you slow the speed of the ball down (less ball speed sounds to me like slower and longer rally's) the result will be that matches will last longer!

The rule changes in the 1940s that were instituted to make matches not last so long were instituted because of a problem back then, when hardhat was the standard tool. Most pros back then had realized that if they just chopped, they could simply wait for the other player to mess up and win the point. The result was, at some point, a match with 1 rally that was 4 hours long. The expedite system was implemented to counteract that. If an umpire deems a match is going on too long because of defensive play, then he can implement the expedite system. In the expedite system, the server has to win the point within 13 hits, or he will forfeit the point. The purpose was to force the server to be aggressive and take the offensive.

If, today we had the problem of 4 hour rallies and 12 hour matches, they would probably not be trying to slow down the ball speed.

Also, the 11 point game was not instituted to shorten the games or matches. What was often happening in the 21 point games is that, one player would dominate with 5 serves in a row. Very quickly that player would be up by 10 points. And at a score like 14-5, the game is effectively over and there is no real need to watch more. The players would lose focus and not play as hard. And you had a lot of boring runaway games.

The idea with the 11 point game is that you had to stay focused and bring your A game the whole time because 9-3 is really only a 6 point lead. You can come back from that. 10-6 is a score that does not necessarily mean you will win. You have more pressure to convert game points into games. Whereas, with a 21 point game, there is really no way someone is going to come back from 19-5. The game was over at 15-5.

The 2 serves was to make it so that a player whose main skill was serving could not simply dominate and take 5 points in a row on serve.

So those rules were not to speed the game up but to make players have to play harder and demonstrate more skill and focus throughout the match. Even being up 3-0 in a match does not always mean you will win with an 11 point game.

NDY
02-28-2014, 07:06 PM
Follow the world class players from now on with EXTENDED TV coverage (that means not only their matches, but also as in a real-life soap and lots of other TV programs/show to make people world wide can identify with them).
Use better camera angles and beter commentators who have great knowledge of the sport (are very enthousiastic about the game and know how to bring that alive in their commentary). In the sport of snooker very often the commentary is provided by previous world champions like Dennis Taylor, Steve Davis, John Parrot, Ronnie O'Sullivan and many other great players. They know how a world class player thinks like, because they were/are world class players themselves as well.
Look at other (now) popular sports; not all of them have always been popular. Darts, snooker, (field)hockey, etc. What did they do to grow up to global popular sports?
I totally agree with you.

Something really feasible would be to improve quality of the transmissions.
I mean,why an epic match like: Chuang Chih-Yuan vs Robert Gardos at the 2014 Kuwait Open (I can't post links yet,you have to search it on youtube,sorry.)
Should not have better angles,slow motions and much better quality?
And just imagine somebody like J.O. Waldner or some other former great doing the commentary,analyzing tactics,technique,etc. :D

Kaiwen
03-03-2014, 08:18 AM
I am very agree with upsidedowncarl!

we all will need to change materials, and new generation will be more expensive! it's sure!

bzing
03-03-2014, 10:38 AM
I think while forcing players on buying new blades is not good, these changes will surely improve player's technique overall. Too many players have been dependable on their fast carbon blades and over the recent months I've got to really hate playing against players that use fast carbon blades - most of them have absolutely no truly decent technique and almost every loop from their carbon blades shoots out somewhere in the air like a rocket and if lucky sometimes will land on the table - that's an absolute madness.

From now on I only play with players that use 5 ply wood blades using a tacky rubber and I've noticed how that way matches are much more interesting so that when I play with them the rallies consist of much more clever tactics and ways of exploiting the opponent by using their range of shots, not the power of a super fast carbon blade which is ridiculous.

Alborz
03-03-2014, 01:46 PM
I think while forcing players on buying new blades is not good, these changes will surely improve player's technique overall. Too many players have been dependable on their fast carbon blades and over the recent months I've got to really hate playing against players that use fast carbon blades - most of them have absolutely no truly decent technique and almost every loop from their carbon blades shoots out somewhere in the air like a rocket and if lucky sometimes will land on the table - that's an absolute madness.

From now on I only play with players that use 5 ply wood blades using a tacky rubber and I've noticed how that way matches are much more interesting so that when I play with them the rallies consist of much more clever tactics and ways of exploiting the opponent by using their range of shots, not the power of a super fast carbon blade which is ridiculous.
This will be good for amateur level but not for top pros. Pros have very solid technique and their game is based on their technique not their equipment. So if they start using slower rackets (that i have doubt they actually do) we will miss those super fast rallies and watching them will be boring.

ITTF tests rubbers and blades at factories right now. They just test some general features of top pros rackets at tournaments like the thickness of rubber.
They will do like this in future because they can't get a machine to every tournament and test the rackets there and the conditions like temperature of air and so are different in every city.
So they will test the rubbers and blades in factories and pros can receive faster and spinier rubbers than what we can. So they would still play with what they prefer not a slow racket and their game will not get effected by this rule (limiting the bounce of racket).

The real reason of limiting the bounce of racket is to make us buy new equipment and full the pockets of manufactures and ITTF with money.