PDA

View Full Version : Poly balls



lefty
05-17-2014, 05:43 PM
Does anyone actually know what's happening with the release of the new poly balls?

I currently have 3 well worn balls, but I don't want to go & buy a dozen only to find the new ones are released soon!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

mahomedy13
05-17-2014, 06:55 PM
Im just like you-eager to know about the release of the DHS plastic balls!

cant wait for them!

Alborz
05-18-2014, 03:30 AM
I'm waiting for them too. But i think it may take sometime to be available in all countries.

mahomedy13
05-18-2014, 10:58 AM
I got a feeling it will be released just before 1 July-the official switch from celluloid to plastic.

The demand at that time will be very high,and therefore the prices too.

Der_Echte
05-18-2014, 01:21 PM
Not gunna worry about it, no need to. Plenty of supply of normal ball around. Normal isn't banned. Plenty of time for the "new" ball to develop.

JHB
05-18-2014, 06:50 PM
Can't remember where I read it but I did see that widespread availability to people who actually pay for them ( it'll never catch on ) is estimated for August. Personally it makes me laugh how amateurishly the manufacturers are handling this change, but at the same time it does make me angry that a ball which is supposed to be used in ITTF events from July is nowhere available in the retail trade six weeks before it is due to be adopted.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-18-2014, 07:27 PM
Poly balls will be approved for tournament play from 1 July 2014.
ITTF Approved Poly balls, or rather labeled ITTF 40+ Approved balls are already available in the market, but not approved for tournament usages yet.
Only certain world tournaments after 1 July 2014 will use poly balls - as listed and explained by ITTF.

Regarding supply, it will be in mass delivery from early June.

Besides those tournaments named by ITTF, national federation can decide which ITTF approved ball (40 or 40+ meaning cellu or poly ball) to use.
IE French and Chinese leage will use cellu ball. German league will use poly ball.

Now for the rest of us amateur players, there is no rush to move over - unless you want the new ball to practice because you are going to a poly ball tournament.
Until ITTF takes off the current cellu ball from the aprove ball list, there are perfect legal and will still be available for purchase and use.

All of the above information has been shared by ITTF few weeks ago already, and general knowledge
Suprised that lots of people didn't see it....


Other than that, I am the likely the first person in South Africa or Africa to have the poly balls - I got mine in Feb 2013.
Since then, many countries are already using them and some retails in Asia have already sold them.
Sadly the retail versions are mostly the defects so it will break easily or egg shape.
The better ones (limited) is given to juniors teams or provincial teams around China and Taiwan - thats as far as I know.
I personally feel that it will take lots of countries 1 to 2 years to migrate over.

JHB
05-18-2014, 09:31 PM
Yes I know most if not all of that but why let the facts stand in the way of a jolly good moan ? Anyway so far as I can ascertain there is nowhere in the UK selling poly balls yet, not even Palio - unless of course someone here knows different. What I do know for an absolute certainty is that I will be trying to explain the significance of the "40+" marking to people at my regular TT gigs for at least the next year if not all eternity....... As Benny Hill used to say, "You no Rissen !!"

TableTennisDaily
05-19-2014, 12:01 AM
We will be reviewing Stiga's ITTF Approved Poly Ball very soon and will keep you posted.

agold
05-19-2014, 12:23 AM
We will be reviewing Stiga's ITTF Approved Poly Ball very soon and will keep you posted.

Wow. This is a great place, an your recognition throughout the world allows us, the forum members, to get opportunities we would not otherwise get, like a review of the polyvalls for us. Thanks!

Alborz
05-19-2014, 05:55 AM
We will be reviewing Stiga's ITTF Approved Poly Ball very soon and will keep you posted.
Great! looking forward to it.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-19-2014, 09:57 AM
Yes I know most if not all of that but why let the facts stand in the way of a jolly good moan ? Anyway so far as I can ascertain there is nowhere in the UK selling poly balls yet, not even Palio - unless of course someone here knows different. What I do know for an absolute certainty is that I will be trying to explain the significance of the "40+" marking to people at my regular TT gigs for at least the next year if not all eternity....... As Benny Hill used to say, "You no Rissen !!"

First you say, there is no facts so you moan
Now you say, so what about the facts, and you still moan

lol

Regarding why UK shops are not selling poly balls, maybe they don't have business dealings with the balls that are out already - which mostly are the Chinese brands, and as I said, so far it is limited. Mass delivery will only happen in June.
If come this time next month, and you still see nothing in UK, please few free to moan at them

And don't worry, 1 year is the normal speed for regular TT gigs to migrate, but hey, I still know lots of people playing 21 point game, and how many years has it been?

TableTennisDaily
05-20-2014, 03:30 PM
Wow. This is a great place, an your recognition throughout the world allows us, the forum members, to get opportunities we would not otherwise get, like a review of the polyvalls for us. Thanks!

Thanks for the great comment @agold We try our very best! Stay tuned :) See you around.

mahomedy13
05-20-2014, 05:13 PM
We will be reviewing Stiga's ITTF Approved Poly Ball very soon and will keep you posted.

that will be lovely.

I wish you could review it using rubbers that were created for the poly ball eg the Airoc,Hurricane 8/3-50,Tinarc 5,Rasant powergrip as well as current rubbers like the Tenergy's,Calibra's,Mark V/Rakza's etc and make a comparison or tell us what you feel is different.

TableTennisDaily
05-20-2014, 06:08 PM
that will be lovely.

I wish you could review it using rubbers that were created for the poly ball eg the Airoc,Hurricane 8/3-50,Tinarc 5,Rasant powergrip as well as current rubbers like the Tenergy's,Calibra's,Mark V/Rakza's etc and make a comparison or tell us what you feel is different.

That's a fantastic idea! We will review the new Stiga ball with a variety of rubbers/blades.

agold
05-20-2014, 06:48 PM
That's a fantastic idea! We will review the new Stiga ball with a variety of rubbers/blades.

This is going to be great.

JHB
05-20-2014, 07:01 PM
Regarding why UK shops are not selling poly balls, maybe they don't have business dealings with the balls that are out already - which mostly are the Chinese brands, and as I said, so far it is limited. Mass delivery will only happen in June.
If come this time next month, and you still see nothing in UK, please few free to moan at them

And don't worry, 1 year is the normal speed for regular TT gigs to migrate, but hey, I still know lots of people playing 21 point game, and how many years has it been?

You can get both DHS and Double Fish here in UK if you know where to look. Sadly TT is not a "big" game in the UK so ( with one or two honourable exceptions ) most businesses selling equipment are fairly small concerns and can't afford to carry masses of stock, and nor are they likely to be favoured with early shipments - and of course we are "out of season" in Europe too. In fact since Tees Sport moved out of Central Middlesborough onto an industrial estate I don't think there is a single genuine retail TT outlet in the country - by which I mean there is nowhere that operates a "shop front" where you can just walk in off the street and buy TT gear, they are all mail order/internet order only. Come back Playrite Sports, all is forgiven !

Playing to 21 ? Tell me about it ! No-one at my regular sessions would dream of playing anything else, unless it is in a league match. In fact we still have plenty who serve from their fingers or throw the ball backwards onto the bat, and that was just as illegal 35 years ago when I was last playing regularly. I've also learned not to give the ball back to the server until I'm back in position at the table, as most people will serve immediately without looking up to see if you are ready. Or caring whether you are. I could go on, but I wont !

SpinQuark
05-20-2014, 07:14 PM
In fact we still have plenty who serve from their fingers or throw the ball backwards onto the bat, and that was just as illegal 35 years ago when I was last playing regularly. I've also learned not to give the ball back to the server until I'm back in position at the table, as most people will serve immediately without looking up to see if you are ready. Or caring whether you are. I could go on, but I wont !

Whoa I don't fancy coming to your club!
I say 'win fair or not at all'.

mahomedy13
05-20-2014, 07:21 PM
This is going to be great.

definitely!

Tinykin
05-20-2014, 08:46 PM
I've also learned not to give the ball back to the server until I'm back in position at the table, as most people will serve immediately without looking up to see if you are ready. Or caring whether you are.

Ha! Ha! Yes, I lose so many points on where when I wasn't ready. A couple of times, I didn't even have the bat in my hand.

agold
05-20-2014, 08:51 PM
Ha! Ha! Yes, I lose so many points on where when I wasn't ready. A couple of times, I didn't even have the bat in my hand.

At a tourney the guy served as I was walking out onto the court still waving my bat around to dry out the cleaner :)

mahomedy13
05-20-2014, 08:53 PM
some people just donno how to wait for the opponent to be ready...

agold
05-20-2014, 08:56 PM
I know this is off topic, but one last thing: my coach doesn't come to my tourneys. Only my parents (I'm twelve years old). So between games, I sit down and think about what I have to do and improve by myself. But one tournament, the guy says he is in a hurry to go so can we just go and play the next game? WHILE IM SITTING ;). Oh well.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2014, 03:15 AM
That's a fantastic idea! We will review the new Stiga ball with a variety of rubbers/blades.

I have news for you guys, THE "NEW" POLY BALLS REALLY SUCK! One of the pros at SPiN brought a few DHS poly balls back from China. The ball bounced high regardless of how much spin you put on it. The ball went sort of slow, and slowed down a lot after the bounce even if it was looped heavy. It sounded cracked. It sounded like what you would imagine a PING PONG ball would sound like rather than a table tennis ball. Shots I gave that would have had a ton of spin with the current 40mm celluloid ball had what seemed like one third less spin. Because the ball bounced high and slowed down it was sort of easy to crush.

I got the feeling from hitting with it that the new poly ball will actually lower the skill set needed for high level play.

I did not play matches, I just hit with it for about 3 min. But IT WAS REALLY REALLY REALLY LAME. Sorry guys, there was no two ways around it, the ball was lame. I really could not figure out how it was slowing down so noticeably after the bounce. I was not thinking it was going to be good. But I went into it with an open mind and it was much worse than I thought it would be from some of what I have heard.

agold
05-21-2014, 11:17 AM
I have news for you guys, THE "NEW" POLY BALLS REALLY SUCK! One of the pros at SPiN brought a few DHS poly balls back from China. The ball bounced high regardless of how much spin you put on it. The ball went sort of slow, and slowed down a lot after the bounce even if it was looped heavy. It sounded cracked. It sounded like what you would imagine a PING PONG ball would sound like rather than a table tennis ball. Shots I gave that would have had a ton of spin with the current 40mm celluloid ball had what seemed like one third less spin. Because the ball bounced high and slowed down it was sort of easy to crush.

I got the feeling from hitting with it that the new poly ball will actually lower the skill set needed for high level play.

I did not play matches, I just hit with it for about 3 min. But IT WAS REALLY REALLY REALLY LAME. Sorry guys, there was no two ways around it, the ball was lame. I really could not figure out how it was slowing down so noticeably after the bounce. I was not thinking it was going to be good. But I went into it with an open mind and it was much worse than I thought it would be from some of what I have heard.

Thanks for the review. Wang Chen doesn't even know about the new balls haha, so luckily for me I will not be changing until I have to.

lefty
05-21-2014, 11:37 AM
I've just asked the etta via twitter & they're discussing using the poly ball for GP's brit league etc but local leagues or smaller tournaments could decide themselves!
Surely that would be a nightmare for someone like me who plays all those things.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

PolishTT
05-21-2014, 01:24 PM
They should make a cut like on 1st July everybody have to play the new plastic balls! There would be no discussions... I am not from this generation when we got the 40mm balls but was there also that kind of discussion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2014, 01:29 PM
I know this is off topic, but one last thing: my coach doesn't come to my tourneys. Only my parents (I'm twelve years old). So between games, I sit down and think about what I have to do and improve by myself. But one tournament, the guy says he is in a hurry to go so can we just go and play the next game? WHILE IM SITTING ;). Oh well.

You tell him not to rush you. You take your time. You should be allowed time between games.

But you are right. This is very off topic and probably should be in a completely different thread or you could even make a thread of your own for this.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2014, 01:31 PM
They should make a cut like on 1st July everybody have to play the new plastic balls! There would be no discussions... I am not from this generation when we got the 40mm balls but was there also that kind of discussion?

Many countries will not start using the Poly ball and are rejecting it. I think this ball change my give the ITTF some trouble.

Alborz
05-21-2014, 01:35 PM
There is so many different reviews of poly balls. Some people say it sucks. Some say its like the current balls.

I have read some reviews from new balls last month and they have said they were pretty much like current balls. But now [email protected] says they sucks.
Don't know how it's possible. Maybe they were testing different versions of new balls.

Anyway i don't think players will play with very bad quality balls ant ITTF events. At least i hope they will be good.

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2014, 01:49 PM
There is so many different reviews of poly balls. Some people say it sucks. Some say its like the current balls.

I have read some reviews from new balls last month and they have said they were pretty much like current balls. But now [email protected] says they sucks.
Don't know how it's possible. Maybe they were testing different versions of new balls.

Anyway i don't think players will play with very bad quality balls ant ITTF events. At least i hope they will be good.

I also know people who, if you have six balls, 2 are three stars, 2 are 2 stars and 2 are shite (1 stars), they will not be able to tell the difference. I will be able to tell the difference between a Double Fish 3 star and a Nittaku 3 star (Double Fish is harder). So, perhaps not everyone is paying attention fully.

lefty
05-21-2014, 02:02 PM
They should make a cut like on 1st July everybody have to play the new plastic balls! There would be no discussions... I am not from this generation when we got the 40mm balls but was there also that kind of discussion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No I don't thinks so! As I remember it we just had a date when the new balls were to be used from.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Alborz
05-21-2014, 02:57 PM
I also know people who, if you have six balls, 2 are three stars, 2 are 2 stars and 2 are shite (1 stars), they will not be able to tell the difference. I will be able to tell the difference between a Double Fish 3 star and a Nittaku 3 star (Double Fish is harder). So, perhaps not everyone is paying attention fully.
I know. But that guys were playing tournaments in USA so i think they were good enough to tell the different.

One of the were a chopper and the other one were looper and they both said that the ball were so much like the current balls.

Here are the reviews by them:

I just read this posts on OOAK forum and i think it's better to share it with you:

"Had a chance to play in the recent tournament in South Bend Indiana..
and during the free time in between matches, i was able to play test the new poly balls..

believe me i thought the new balls were going to feel and sound totally different but the simple fact is i really couldn't tell the difference too much..
i was playing 3 events and i was finished with 2 of them, so it was my 7th hour being there already so i couldn't play test the balls long... 2-4 mins was all the time i had with these new
40+ (plus) balls..

inspecting them i did notice some unique things..

- doing the spin test i could see that they were round.
- feeling the ball it felt like a normal ball we are used to feel, grip, texture, etc
- bounce test on racket or table i didn't see any difference..
- looking at the seams.. (DHS, Double Fish ball had center seam line. there was a seamless ball Xushaofa .. not 2 halves put together)
- hitting test was the only thing i can feel different.. might be the table, or me just waking up from my nap, but the ball kinda felt dead, not crisp, but i was being gentle in the hitting as these were the only samples there were and i didn't want to break nor mis hit and send into other matches beside me.
- the ball weight was same feeling, and bounce during the play was about the same as you would expect..
- the sound was different, nor were we hitting the ball hard
- bounce on the hits was as expected, no different

my 2 cents is there won't be much of a difference, and the size of the balls was told to me as 40mm - 40.17mm

i believe the feeling of the new balls is about the difference of you playing a celluloid ball in 80F room and then going to a room that is about 65F room, that is the difference.. that drop in ambient temperature is the only way i can explain, just a touch or less than 1 percent less in power..

the change is coming so i hope all you will make your adjustments and transitions smoothly.. best of luck..! (i personally don't think the change is going to affect our game at all)"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another one:

"I was also in South Bend for that tourney and had a chance to hit with the DHS ball. In short. The first thing I noticed was the ball was harder. You could feel it better on the racket. And being a chopper this is something I like. Spin seems to be very and I do mean very close to the same. Sound was the same. Didn't sound like a broken ball. Felt the same in your hand. In the 5 to 10 minutes I hit with it I can safely say I'm not going to worry about the change."

ZJK
05-21-2014, 03:43 PM
This is really interesting. You have 2 experienced Players testing a poly ball from the same company and they tell totally different things about the balls.
Either DHS etc. are still producing poly balls with big variations or i don't know

ttmonster
05-21-2014, 03:49 PM
This is really interesting. You have 2 experienced Players testing a poly ball from the same company and they tell totally different things about the balls.
Either DHS etc. are still producing poly balls with big variations or i don't know or they are paying these people to say this :P ... just kidding

Alborz
05-21-2014, 04:03 PM
This is really interesting. You have 2 experienced Players testing a poly ball from the same company and they tell totally different things about the balls.
Either DHS etc. are still producing poly balls with big variations or i don't know
That is why i think there will be balls with different qualities for sell. And i think the best ones will be used at ITTF events.

JHB
05-21-2014, 04:15 PM
I think we cannot possibly know until we get to see and play with the retail poly balls, which I guess will only be after the manufacturers have gotten properly up to speed on production. A lot of the balls which various people have tested have been pre-production samples, in some cases not ever ITTF-approved. Encouragingly Nittaku have had their Premium poly ball approved by the ITTF, and we all know how good Nittaku Premium celluloid balls are. We could say exactly the same for Stiga Optimum too. Let's consider our verdicts then, not now !

UpSideDownCarl
05-21-2014, 04:36 PM
Well, the one thing I know is, THE BOUNCE on the ball I was using WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Not at all like a celluloid ball. Noticeably higher. It was easy to hit because of this and because of how it slowed down. The ball slowing down was, to me one of the most disconcerting things besides the spin.

Now I was NOT HITTING SOFTLY. I wanted to see what it felt like if I hit my most spinny loops. I was doing something that would have put a ton of spin on a celluloid ball. It put a decent amount. But nothing close to how much spin would have been on the celluloid ball. I was giving full acceleration to my stroke to spin the ball as much as possible. So there was no doubt about the fact that it did not spin as much. And the balls that were coming back at me felt like they did not have much spin at all.

JHB
05-21-2014, 04:57 PM
Dont forget day-to-day variations either ! I played for two-and-a-half hours this morning and I was totally gash the whole way through, the only thing I could hit the table with was the bat. Granted we were playing doubles rather than real table tennis, but still - sometimes it just happens that way.:cool:

krro
05-21-2014, 05:40 PM
Well, the one thing I know is, THE BOUNCE on the ball I was using WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Not at all like a celluloid ball. Noticeably higher. It was easy to hit because of this and because of how it slowed down. The ball slowing down was, to me one of the most disconcerting things besides the spin.

Now I was NOT HITTING SOFTLY. I wanted to see what it felt like if I hit my most spinny loops. I was doing something that would have put a ton of spin on a celluloid ball. It put a decent amount. But nothing close to how much spin would have been on the celluloid ball. I was giving full acceleration to my stroke to spin the ball as much as possible. So there was no doubt about the fact that it did not spin as much. And the balls that were coming back at me felt like they did not have much spin at all.

And you are sure you used the poly ball that has been ITTF approved? From this list? http://ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.asp?category=balls

Tony's Table Tennis
05-21-2014, 09:30 PM
They should make a cut like on 1st July everybody have to play the new plastic balls! There would be no discussions... I am not from this generation when we got the 40mm balls but was there also that kind of discussion?


Sent from my using Tapatalk

That won't work
Certain events are able to change in time, certain aren't
IE, CSL will be half way through the league, and changing the ball half way isn't a good idea.
Also as explained by ITTF and many national federation, changing balls may be a costly thing, so it is the individual tournaments, leagues etc that decide when to move over. So they can choose to use any ITTF approved balls.

For example, Germany premier and 1st league will change over, the lower leagues directors can decide which to use.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-21-2014, 09:33 PM
No I don't thinks so! As I remember it we just had a date when the new balls were to be used from.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Yes, certain ITTF world events will be using the new ball after 1 July
The rest of the tournaments is decided by national federations.

So in other words Table Tennis England will inform you what are the allowed balls to use at your local tournaments (new and old are legal)

UpSideDownCarl
05-22-2014, 04:29 AM
And you are sure you used the poly ball that has been ITTF approved? From this list? http://ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.asp?category=balls

Yep. I think it was DHS or else it was Double Fish. I do think it was DHS though though I actually can't remember. One of the pros at Spin brought some back from China.

dici
05-22-2014, 05:23 AM
I have been wondering, had they ever try to do stress analysis on seamless poly ball or not. I kind of believing this still contribute the main reason of all these bad ball

Alborz
05-22-2014, 06:31 AM
Yep. I think it was DHS or else it was Double Fish. I do think it was DHS though though I actually can't remember. One of the pros at Spin brought some back from China.
In the last reviews of DHS balls that i read they said it's so much like current balls and as far as i know DHS is the best in making new poly balls so far. If i remember correctly DHS balls will be used in ITTF events after 1st of July.

So i think the ball you tested was most likely a Double Fish one. Not sure, only guessing.

It will be good if someone make a review of new DHS balls.

Alborz
05-22-2014, 06:35 AM
I have been wondering, had they ever try to do stress analysis on seamless poly ball or not. I kind of believing this still contribute the main reason of all these bad ball
DHS poly balls have seams. I think that is one of the reasons that they are more like current balls than other brands. But don't know the other brands have seam or not.

UpSideDownCarl
05-22-2014, 07:33 AM
DHS poly balls have seams. I think that is one of the reasons that they are more like current balls than other brands. But don't know the other brands have seam or not.

I don't really care what you guys say or think, the pro who brought the balls back from China did it for a reason. I hit with it. It really is different enough that it was not good. I will be able to adjust. I am not worried about that. It will dumb down the sport. I can go and find out which brand of plastic ball it was. At the time I looked, but all the writing was in Chinese and I did not really care that much.

It did not play like the old ball. I had heard people saying it played close enough to the old ball. I did not think there would be as much of a difference. There was more than I thought there would be and it was not good. Easy, but not good.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-22-2014, 09:18 AM
Alborz,

Have you seen and played with poly ball before?
You very active on all poly ball discussions, think there is couple of threads already.
you seem like an experience poly ball person already, so just wanted to know if you have seen and played with it

Tony's Table Tennis
05-22-2014, 09:21 AM
I don't really care what you guys say or think, the pro who brought the balls back from China did it for a reason. I hit with it. It really is different enough that it was not good. I will be able to adjust. I am not worried about that. It will dumb down the sport. I can go and find out which brand of plastic ball it was. At the time I looked, but all the writing was in Chinese and I did not really care that much.

It did not play like the old ball. I had heard people saying it played close enough to the old ball. I did not think there would be as much of a difference. There was more than I thought there would be and it was not good. Easy, but not good.

I agree that it does not play close enough to the old ball.
Reduced speed and reduced spin.
Just by increase the diameter from 39.50 to 40.20, while keeping the same weight, can cause the reduction, yet along material differences.
But this change is no different to 38mm to 40mm change, time is the only thing for this type of transition. Soon we will forget about 40mm and only know 40+

Tony's Table Tennis
05-22-2014, 09:51 AM
Carl, they advertise it will have higher bounce too lol
5926

Alborz
05-22-2014, 10:00 AM
Alborz,

Have you seen and played with poly ball before?
You very active on all poly ball discussions, think there is couple of threads already.
you seem like an experience poly ball person already, so just wanted to know if you have seen and played with it
Yes, but just for some minutes some month ago. But because here in Iran everything is available after 6 month it is available in other countries that balls was for nearly one year ago.
Can't remember the brand but it wasn't DHS. It was horrible. It felt dead and there were almost no spin.
But the guy i get the ball form said it is just a prototype and official ones will be much better.

After that i didn't play with any poly ball and i just read the reviews around.

SpinQuark
05-22-2014, 08:31 PM
Can someone explain why the new poly balls are a different size ?
Changing materials is one thing, but why introduce a size change as well. I am sure if they can make a 40.2 poly ball, they can make a 39.5 poly ball.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-22-2014, 08:47 PM
Can someone explain why the new poly balls are a different size ?
Changing materials is one thing, but why introduce a size change as well. I am sure if they can make a 40.2 poly ball, they can make a 39.5 poly ball.

40mm rule states the ball need to be between 39.50 and 40.50

So the new ball is still 40mm as it is inside this rule

Old balls were mostly 39.50 - 39.70, they just pushing the new ball to the max limit at 40.2 to 40.5

SpinQuark
05-22-2014, 08:54 PM
Thanks for responding.
So if the balls can be made with a manufacturing tolerance of say +/- 0.2mm:

Why are (all?) manufacturers choosing to make poly balls with a larger mean diameter than they make the existing balls ?

also

Why does the rule specify such a wide tolerance which is 2.5 times the manufacturing process tolerance ?

Tony's Table Tennis
05-22-2014, 09:08 PM
Thanks for responding.
So if the balls can be made with a manufacturing tolerance of say +/- 0.2mm:

Why are (all?) manufacturers choosing to make poly balls with a larger mean diameter than they make the existing balls ?

also

Why does the rule specify such a wide tolerance which is 2.5 times the manufacturing process tolerance ?

I don't know
This is a decision from ITTF AGM, it was decided like that

AndySmith
05-22-2014, 09:10 PM
The ITTF specified that the Poly ball MUST be a minimum of 40mm. I think this was in one of the Technical Bulletins they put out. So it has in practical terms resulted in a change of size, even though it didn't need a definite rule change (as Tony mentioned - it still falls within the original tolerances). Some say it's a sneaky way of increasing the ball size without needing a vote. It could be a response to the manufacturers using the minimum amount of material for the original 40mm ball, resulting in us never having a "true" 40mm ball - it was always under 40mm.

As for your second question about the wide tolerance for the original 40mm ball rule - I don't know. Perhaps the manufacturing process has improved since the early days?

SpinQuark
05-22-2014, 09:32 PM
Crikey. Thanks for explaining it.

Someone did give me a very short knock with a poly ball they had - no idea of manufacturer or whether it was final production standard. But my timing seemed to go all to pot as it did seem to have some different characteristics. Felt kind of like playing someone with a funny rubber (anti-spin etc) when the ball doesn't move quite as expected.

I'm really hoping the new ball doesn't change the sport, because it seems just perfect to me with the existing ball.

I guess if it is quite different there may be a push back from players.

Tony's Table Tennis
05-23-2014, 08:06 AM
Thanks Andy Smith

Spinquark,
As with all changes in life, people will first moan about it, but after a while it will be accepted and become a norm.
Not first time we had changes :p

In a way, I agree with the material change, cellu is a flamable and old technology. All other sports had material changes through out history and TT is still using cellu dating back, I don't know how long.
Regarding the less spin, less speed, I'm sure half of it got to do with the extra dimenion/size, and the other half is the material.
The sound is something we need to get used to

Regarding how durable the balls are, we will need to wait and see (so far i'm not happy about it)

The reality is, new rubbers, blades etc will be there to make up for the lost of speed and spin. This is maybe where companies will capitalised and make extra money out of the sport, which will happen no matter if there was a change or not.

UpSideDownCarl
05-23-2014, 01:41 PM
Thanks Andy Smith

Spinquark,
As with all changes in life, people will first moan about it, but after a while it will be accepted and become a norm.
Not first time we had changes :p

In a way, I agree with the material change, cellu is a flamable and old technology. All other sports had material changes through out history and TT is still using cellu dating back, I don't know how long.
Regarding the less spin, less speed, I'm sure half of it got to do with the extra dimenion/size, and the other half is the material.
The sound is something we need to get used to

Regarding how durable the balls are, we will need to wait and see (so far i'm not happy about it)

The reality is, new rubbers, blades etc will be there to make up for the lost of speed and spin. This is maybe where companies will capitalised and make extra money out of the sport, which will happen no matter if there was a change or not.

To me, the most worrisome thing was that, with the high bounce and the fact that, even on the heaviest topspins that the guy who was hitting to me, could get onto the ball when he was looping, the ball seemed to slow down on the bounce and instead of accelerating, leaving it sitting up there to be crushed, making it much easier to be tracked and giving you a little extra time to adjust to where the ball was going. The ball, in short, nullified some of the advantages that come with higher levels of play and technique.

I am also realizing, in thinking about this, rubbers may change to spin the ball more, but they may actually have to change the table surface too. Right now, the amount of grab on a new table helps create some of that kick on the celluloid ball. Well if the poly ball is slicker and harder to spin, it would make sense that it would kick that much less off the table as a result. So part of what made me dislike the way the new ball performed was the effect of a smoother, more slippery substance not being as affected by its contact to the table. So that, even when a shot had had a decent amount of topspin, IT WAS NOT KICKING. The reverse is probably also true: even if you have a lot of underspin, it will probably not slow down as much as it would have with the old balls.

Those sidespin serves that start on one side of the table curve off the other side may disappear; those heavy underspin serves that come back to the net, may be a thing of the past.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that, what was most disconcerting was not how the ball was affected by my racket and rubbers. That felt okay. It was how the ball reacted to the table. That was much less okay in my opinion. Again, I won't have much trouble adjusting to it. It just makes everything much easier. But, that is what I don't like.

This is different than going from 38mm to "40"mm. There was less spin on the ball when going to 40mm. I still like the 38mm ball better. But there was a difference in how this poly ball interacts with the table that is really substantially different.

And in thinking about this I just remembered something: I HAVE HIT WITH 44MM BALLS. They were funny, but, THAT DID NOT BUG ME AS MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony's Table Tennis
05-23-2014, 01:59 PM
To me, the most worrisome thing was that, with the high bounce and the fact that, even on the heaviest topspins that the guy who was hitting to me, could get onto the ball when he was looping, the ball seemed to slow down on the bounce and instead of accelerating, leaving it sitting up there to be crushed, making it much easier to be tracked and giving you a little extra time to adjust to where the ball was going. The ball, in short, nullified some of the advantages that come with higher levels of play and technique.

I am also realizing, in thinking about this, rubbers may change to spin the ball more, but they may actually have to change the table surface too. Right now, the amount of grab on a new table helps create some of that kick on the celluloid ball. Well if the poly ball is slicker and harder to spin, it would make sense that it would kick that much less off the table as a result. So part of what made me dislike the way the new ball performed was the effect of a smoother, more slippery substance not being as affected by its contact to the table. So that, even when a shot had had a decent amount of topspin, IT WAS NOT KICKING. The reverse is probably also true: even if you have a lot of underspin, it will probably not slow down as much as it would have with the old balls.

Those sidespin serves that start on one side of the table curve off the other side may disappear; those heavy underspin serves that come back to the net, may be a thing of the past.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that, what was most disconcerting was not how the ball was affected by my racket and rubbers. That felt okay. It was how the ball reacted to the table. That was much less okay in my opinion. Again, I won't have much trouble adjusting to it. It just makes everything much easier. But, that is what I don't like.

This is different than going from 38mm to "40"mm. There was less spin on the ball when going to 40mm. I still like the 38mm ball better. But there was a difference in how this poly ball interacts with the table that is really substantially different.

And in thinking about this I just remembered something: I HAVE HIT WITH 44MM BALLS. They were funny, but, THAT DID NOT BUG ME AS MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can relate to you and your experience.
That was basically first impression over a year ago.

I agree, table service is a problem - I never thought of that in the past though

UpSideDownCarl
05-24-2014, 02:04 AM
So the pro who had the poly balls, told me that the Nittaku poly balls are very close to the celluloid balls. Interesting. He said that they were the best ones.

I texted to ask which ball we were hitting with and he told me he would check. But that the Nittaku ones were better.

ttmonster
05-24-2014, 02:41 AM
So the pro who had the poly balls, told me that the Nittaku poly balls are very close to the celluloid balls. Interesting. He said that they were the best ones.

I texted to ask which ball we were hitting with and he told me he would check. But that the Nittaku ones were better. Just made me wonder, isn't it so common that the leaders in a specific industry almost always find out a way to come up with the best products , Nittaku must be doing something really better than the others when it comes to producing table tennis balls ...

tack_and_grip
05-24-2014, 05:07 AM
Also as explained by ITTF and many national federation, changing balls may be a costly thing, so it is the individual tournaments, leagues etc that decide when to move over.

Anyone knows what happened during the previous (38 to 40mm) ball transition? What did ITTF mandate or recommend? And what actually happened on the ground?

Alborz
05-24-2014, 06:18 AM
So the pro who had the poly balls, told me that the Nittaku poly balls are very close to the celluloid balls. Interesting. He said that they were the best ones.

I texted to ask which ball we were hitting with and he told me he would check. But that the Nittaku ones were better.
Good to hear this.
Nittaku balls were always the best and it seems like they will continue being the best. I really love their 3 star premium balls but sadly they are so expensive for me to buy and they brake faster than the other balls.

But it's good to hear their poly balls are very close to celluloid balls.

Alborz
05-24-2014, 07:17 AM
How much do you guys think it will take to adjust to new balls?

agold
05-24-2014, 12:42 PM
How much do you guys think it will take to adjust to new balls?

I think what Carl is saying is that people will adjust, but it's about the fact that the game will be easier.

Alborz
05-24-2014, 01:05 PM
I think what Carl is saying is that people will adjust, but it's about the fact that the game will be easier.
I know this. My question is how much does it take to adjust to them.

agold
05-24-2014, 01:09 PM
I know this. My question is how much does it take to adjust to them.

Ok. I have not tried them, and I was not playing table tennis when there was any ball change, but one 38 mm ball ended up in my club, and it was very different. Much faster and spinner. I don't know what the difference will be.

mahomedy13
05-24-2014, 05:05 PM
From all im reading about how high the ball bounces and the noticeable less spin,i think i might start using short pimples....

mahomedy13
05-24-2014, 06:55 PM
theres lots of activity from DHS,Andro and Stiga in terms of making rubbers for the new ball,as well as making the new ball.

However,Butterfly and Yasaka havent really said anything/stated anything about when they are going to produce new rubber types that suits the new ball.

was wondering what their ploy will be.

maybe they will create rubbers after the balls official usage time,say it is more developed than dhs's or stiga's new rubbers,then charge exorbitant prices.Just my opinion.

I wonder what fellow members have to say-please express your thoughts.

akonebrahim
05-24-2014, 07:41 PM
theres lots of activity from DHS,Andro and Stiga in terms of making rubbers for the new ball,as well as making the new ball.

However,Butterfly and Yasaka havent really said anything/stated anything about when they are going to produce new rubber types that suits the new ball.

was wondering what their ploy will be.

maybe they will create rubbers after the balls official usage time,say it is more developed than dhs's or stiga's new rubbers,then charge exorbitant prices.Just my opinion.

I wonder what fellow members have to say-please express your thoughts.

You never know with these big tt companies

agold
06-01-2014, 11:23 PM
Ok. I have not tried them, and I was not playing table tennis when there was any ball change, but one 38 mm ball ended up in my club, and it was very different. Much faster and spinner. I don't know what the difference will be.

Another few were in the club today. They were Nittaku 3 stars. They felt different as well. In fact, THEY felt harder and broken, just like the new ball seem to people. Now, with that in mind, I think the balls will be a different feel. Maybe players will in fact move back again because when the ball is slower the players can cover more distance before the ball comes. I think flicks will become much easier because of the slower ball. Can't wait for the release!

hamo94
06-05-2014, 12:52 AM
Spin was considerably affected when I tried out some Palio Poly balls.

Couldn't get as much backspin from my pendulum and loops take more effort.
But then again, it's quite a lot easier to return serve which is a benefit imo as I'm prone to servers knocking me around with strong third-ball attacks.