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luckyman
08-27-2014, 04:33 PM
Hi all,
At that time, I can play quite well both back hand and right hand, but I always encounter a big problem when I receive services from my opponents, it results in my loss. I need you to help me to improve it, thanks.

RyanLol
08-27-2014, 05:21 PM
Hi all,
At that time, I can play quite well both back hand and right hand, but I always encounter a big problem when I receive services from my opponents, it results in my loss. I need you to help me to improve it, thanks.
Hi!!:)

First, the most important thing is that you have to understand about side spin, especially right side and left side. It also needs to know where the ball goes with a course when you hit the side spin ball because the side spin ball has character of the opposit direction when you hit the ball. Backspin will grasp relatively easy.

Second, you look the opponent's serve carefully, you need to catch an angle of arm or wrist when they service their ball.(swing pose also will be changed)

Third, you have to see tha ball after opponent's serve. If you only depend on the opponent's pose, you may not catch totally difference of the ball whether the ball is right side spin, left side spin or no spin. So you need to distinguish what you see. This method will be the main point understanding the ball when you attain high level.

Finally, people who is high level player mix serve with side spin and back spin. It also hard to catch what they service because they service almost same pose but the ball is totally different.(short,long,side,back and mix) They also use only side spin but it is usually used with long serve because it has to be unexpected and fast. It has also hyper spin. They use no spin sometimes because it has same motion with backspin serve, so you should know characteristic of the ball after serve.

Well..I think the fast way how to recive opponent's serve is based in experience. Good luck!:)

anchorschmidt
08-27-2014, 08:04 PM
For short serves, contact the ball just after the bounce. This reduces the effect of the backspin or sidespin. Never just hit the ball, you will have to add some spin of your own to reduce the effect off the opponent's spin. If the player you are playing against is extremely good and can do corkscrew-spin for their serves (usually only possible after a high toss before the service) then you will have to contact the ball at the top of the bounce.

If your backhand is good, then you can try flicking the ball back (watch matches of Zhang Jike or Fan Zhendong).

If you are facing long spinny serves, then the professional way is to loop the ball back with heavy topspin. If you don't trust your loop then you can try chopping the ball back with backspin but you will face problems doing this with good players unless you are a chopper.

Baal
08-27-2014, 09:39 PM
Time, practice. Coaching. Hate to say it, that's all there is. It may not be what you want to hear but it's the truth.

Some of the advice that people have given sounds nice (just flick the return like ZJK or FZD) but if you are not good at deciphering what the serve is, you will never succeed with techniques that advanced. One of the first things, is your ready position proper? Make sure you understand the correct way to return a moderately spinny serve (various spins) in which the spin is not hidden. Only then you can learn to not be fooled by the things people do to disguise either the amount or direction of the spin. Know what to do with short serves, long serves, and then, practice figuring which serves are going to come long and which ones stay short---that is, learn to see the trajectory early rather than late. Later you can learn that people can fool you with trajectory and timing just as much as with spin, and can use that to disguise spin. Learn to improve your own serve (because it helps understand how other people mess you up, and one of the best ways to cope with an opponent with good serves is to be able to inflict the same damage yourself).

There no shortcuts or secret ingredients. People don't practice this enough or the right way. I hear people say, "I would be just as good as this guy if only I could get his serve back". Which means they are not as good as the other guy.

Der_Echte
08-27-2014, 11:28 PM
Baal is asking a LOT of the right questions you gotta ask yourself.

To simplify it all, you will get better at reading spin as you become a better player, and there is no way to achieve that overnight.

You will get better much quicker if you understand what is happening to the ball, know the clues, the possible responses, and be ready to do them. That sounds really simple, and it is in concept, but in application, it takes a heck of a lot of time and assistance with competent help near you often.

You must develop an ability to take a snapshot of the ball and bat at the moment of impact. You need to know the opponent's surface, the bat speed, the bat angle, and the swing plane at impact. After that, you got the placement of the first bounce, how the ball travels in the air, and how it bounces once it hits your side. After that, if you haven't figured it out, you are shooting in the dark.

These skills of recognizing it are only the beginning. There are many possible responses you can do based upon your opponent and your abilities. Confidence is also a huge factor. After it is all boiled down, it comes to how much you can rely on your skills, training, and experience. This holds true for most things in life. Sometimes luck is a factor, but skill and caution are numbers 1 and 2 in many things in life.

There are a ton of write-ups on how to receive serves and there are a thousand tons of vids for it. It is profitable to look at these and learn from them, but NOTHING replaces a competent individual SHOWING you what is going on, telling you what you can do, and placing you in the situations to do it and give you the right feedback and motivation. Usually, we call such an individual a COACH, but even in my own highly developed industrialized home nation, there are woefully few of these TRUE coaches.

I am along the lines of BAAL, I would rather tell you straight up what you are up against instead of baby sugar coat it.

Der_Echte
08-27-2014, 11:30 PM
If the entire forum doesn't hit the like button on BAAL's post, then someone will forcibly give you the ice bucket challenge while you pose for the "Do a Rumgay" and post it all over this forum.

Seriously deserving of hall of fame post Baal posted above.

Der_Echte
08-27-2014, 11:33 PM
H. Schmidt is telling you the real deal on how to control a short chop serve with high percentage and control, but you gotta know what is going on first, be in a position to move to the ball, and have the will and skills to do the shot.

When we are lacking in ANY of the above, we are going to FAIL. Epically. FAIL. Crash. BURN. You get the idea.

Nothing wrong with that as long as you can recognize what happened, what you need to do, and be in an environment to correct it. Fear of failure can motivate, nothing wrong with that. If I had even a HALF Dollar for every time I failed in life, I would be a billionaire.

Der_Echte
08-27-2014, 11:38 PM
Luckyman, give forum member bricephan and have few chats with him, he is from your country and is the dude wearing the Yasaka jersey in this thread.

http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?5021-Visit-Korea-for-the-TT-_-(With-a-lot-of-Pics)

agold
08-27-2014, 11:45 PM
Take a video of your matches, and then watch them. Figure out what happened to various serves on your return and ten ask yourself, or another player/coach what you should have done. If it's during a match. Ask somebody to coach you. Most people love to do it because you gain experience. The person might tell you how to receive a serve.

redonix76
08-28-2014, 12:21 AM
Watch your opponent's bat (paddle) as he contacts the ball. Make it a habit, then you'll quickly learn what type of spin he has on it and how much.

After that, then you can decide if you want to push, attack, or reverse the side spins.

SpinQuark
08-29-2014, 11:31 PM
I played a guy this week who fed me many Tomahawk style serves heavily loaded with side spin. Most of them were long with top spin as well as side, but the odd one had backspin and side.(and the odd one was short). I found it very difficult to react and return the serves and keep them on the table. I felt like I should be able to attack them with forehand topspin but it was so difficult to react and twist my body in time. Almost all my returns would fly long and to the left missing the table. I was at least equal to him in open play, but just lost almost every point when he served.

Any advice on how to deal with such serves ?

Tinykin
08-30-2014, 01:14 AM
You guys have given good advice but you've all missed the number one cause of missed serve receives at low level.

UpSideDownCarl
08-30-2014, 03:28 AM
Okay guys, there is a lot of good information on here. Baal's post is really great. I agree with Der_Echte that more of you should press the like button on Baal's post because it gives a real answer.

Here is a way of practicing this stuff with a friend or a coach. DO SERVE AND RECEIVE DRILLS. Even if you intellectually know what to do with a serve, you have to practice doing it a lot so that, in a match you do the right thing without having to think about what the right thing is.

@ SpinQuark, if you are trying to go cross court with a ball whose sidespin is pulling your shot further crosscourt at the outset, and you are contacting the outside of the ball, that is sort of like trying to contact the top of the ball against backspin with the bat closed and expecting it to go forward instead of down. When you learn which side of the ball to contact for that sidespin by practicing it, those serves will start going on the table. But practicing serve and receive is one of the keys here.

@ Tinykin, since you raised the subject, what do you feel is the number one reason for missed serves, at lower levels?

MegaZZ
08-30-2014, 04:49 PM
I would be interested to know too (Tinykin) what you think is the number one reason for missed serves at lower level (or at high level, I suppose you mean professional vs non professionally trained players). Are you thinking of the ability to read and react to spin, footwork, stability of basic technique or something else?

Tinykin
08-30-2014, 07:20 PM
LOL, sorry guys I did not mean to start some mystery. I think in editing I must have accidentally deleted the next sentence.

Anyway, this comes from years of watching local league and being an official umpire. I have even had to call a let for it on several occasions as it was so obvious. Lower level players miss serves or do poor returns mostly because they were not ready or in position to receive. Many servers know this, and deliberately serve as soon as they have the ball, or in a non-umpired match will serve as they are calling the score. I sometimes watch as many players screw up more than half their receives as they had not settled into their proper receive position/stance etc.
At higher levels it's far less a problem as most players usually go through a ceremony before they serve thus giving the receiver time to prepare himself. Plus the receivers know this trick, thus you see many hold up their non-playing hand to indicate that they are not ready.

agold
08-30-2014, 11:10 PM
LOL, sorry guys I did not mean to start some mystery. I think in editing I must have accidentally deleted the next sentence.

Anyway, this comes from years of watching local league and being an official umpire. I have even had to call a let for it on several occasions as it was so obvious. Lower level players miss serves or do poor returns mostly because they were not ready or in position to receive. Many servers know this, and deliberately serve as soon as they have the ball, or in a non-umpired match will serve as they are calling the score. I sometimes watch as many players screw up more than half their receives as they had not settled into their proper receive position/stance etc.
At higher levels it's far less a problem as most players usually go through a ceremony before they serve thus giving the receiver time to prepare himself. Plus the receivers know this trick, thus you see many hold up their non-playing hand to indicate that they are not ready.

When I was a 900 USATT I used to blow and wipe my bat every point (people made fun of me for it haha). A lot of people would serve when I was still wiping the dirt of

Donow
08-31-2014, 11:43 AM
The backand flip is a very important stroke to mastered if you want to improve your receives ;)

Dan
08-31-2014, 11:29 PM
Hi @LuckyMan

I use to have a good backhand and forehand and even service, but my receive of serves use to struggle real bad. It wasn't until I met @Gavin Rumgay I had to quickly adapt. His serves are very good, and when I first played him I just had no chance. However after time, I adapted to them. I found my receive of serves got a lot better against other players to. So what did I do to improve this? Here are a few tips below I found helped a lot.

I am going to use a general short or long backspin/sidespin serve in this scenario:

- Always expect the ball long when your receiving serves. if the serve has drifted long, it's much easier to topspin the ball because you are in the right position. if you move in to early, you can get stuck between the two shots (push shot or a topspin shot) which can force you to give a weak return. So on the receive if the ball is long, topspin it. If the ball is short, then step in and play the shot either short of aggressive long dig.
- Select a shot in your mind and commit to it. It is much better to learn from active/positive shots on the receive of serve.
- Keep it simple, don't play to hard or try to win the point on the receive of serve. Take your time, go from some placement.
- If someone is doing a crazy type of serve t(such as tomahawk) that your struggling with, it is most likely drifting long, so wait and topspin it.
- Play a lot of practice matches where your opponent serves the whole set/match.

Which particular serves are you struggling against? As suggested by some members here, it would be good if you could submit a video on here for us.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:05 PM
Many thanks for your advice, I'll keep it in mind. But I totally agree with you that the fast way to improve this skill is to play with kinds of opponents.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:15 PM
For short serves, contact the ball just after the bounce. This reduces the effect of the backspin or sidespin. Never just hit the ball, you will have to add some spin of your own to reduce the effect off the opponent's spin. If the player you are playing against is extremely good and can do corkscrew-spin for their serves (usually only possible after a high toss before the service) then you will have to contact the ball at the top of the bounce.

If your backhand is good, then you can try flicking the ball back (watch matches of Zhang Jike or Fan Zhendong).

If you are facing long spinny serves, then the professional way is to loop the ball back with heavy topspin. If you don't trust your loop then you can try chopping the ball back with backspin but you will face problems doing this with good players unless you are a chopper.

Many thanks for your advice, actually my backhand is quite good, so I often use my backhand to react my opponent's services. I like the way that zhang jike plays very much, so I learned his backhand. However, I think that my experience is not enough to tackle, and I need more time to improve by playing with more opponents.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:26 PM
Time, practice. Coaching. Hate to say it, that's all there is. It may not be what you want to hear but it's the truth.

Some of the advice that people have given sounds nice (just flick the return like ZJK or FZD) but if you are not good at deciphering what the serve is, you will never succeed with techniques that advanced. One of the first things, is your ready position proper? Make sure you understand the correct way to return a moderately spinny serve (various spins) in which the spin is not hidden. Only then you can learn to not be fooled by the things people do to disguise either the amount or direction of the spin. Know what to do with short serves, long serves, and then, practice figuring which serves are going to come long and which ones stay short---that is, learn to see the trajectory early rather than late. Later you can learn that people can fool you with trajectory and timing just as much as with spin, and can use that to disguise spin. Learn to improve your own serve (because it helps understand how other people mess you up, and one of the best ways to cope with an opponent with good serves is to be able to inflict the same damage yourself).

There no shortcuts or secret ingredients. People don't practice this enough or the right way. I hear people say, "I would be just as good as this guy if only I could get his serve back". Which means they are not as good as the other guy.

Thanks your advices. I completely agree with you, the best way to improve this skill is time, practice, and coaching. I totally understand the principle of spin in table tennis, and how to cope with each kind of services in theory. I can also serve various spins in many ways. But you know, it is not easy to put into practice in a real match. Maybe I need more time and practice.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:30 PM
Baal is asking a LOT of the right questions you gotta ask yourself.

To simplify it all, you will get better at reading spin as you become a better player, and there is no way to achieve that overnight.

You will get better much quicker if you understand what is happening to the ball, know the clues, the possible responses, and be ready to do them. That sounds really simple, and it is in concept, but in application, it takes a heck of a lot of time and assistance with competent help near you often.

You must develop an ability to take a snapshot of the ball and bat at the moment of impact. You need to know the opponent's surface, the bat speed, the bat angle, and the swing plane at impact. After that, you got the placement of the first bounce, how the ball travels in the air, and how it bounces once it hits your side. After that, if you haven't figured it out, you are shooting in the dark.

These skills of recognizing it are only the beginning. There are many possible responses you can do based upon your opponent and your abilities. Confidence is also a huge factor. After it is all boiled down, it comes to how much you can rely on your skills, training, and experience. This holds true for most things in life. Sometimes luck is a factor, but skill and caution are numbers 1 and 2 in many things in life.

There are a ton of write-ups on how to receive serves and there are a thousand tons of vids for it. It is profitable to look at these and learn from them, but NOTHING replaces a competent individual SHOWING you what is going on, telling you what you can do, and placing you in the situations to do it and give you the right feedback and motivation. Usually, we call such an individual a COACH, but even in my own highly developed industrialized home nation, there are woefully few of these TRUE coaches.

I am along the lines of BAAL, I would rather tell you straight up what you are up against instead of baby sugar coat it.

Thanks for your advices, I'll keep it in mind.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:33 PM
Take a video of your matches, and then watch them. Figure out what happened to various serves on your return and ten ask yourself, or another player/coach what you should have done. If it's during a match. Ask somebody to coach you. Most people love to do it because you gain experience. The person might tell you how to receive a serve.

Thanks and Maybe I should do like your advice.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:35 PM
Watch your opponent's bat (paddle) as he contacts the ball. Make it a habit, then you'll quickly learn what type of spin he has on it and how much.

After that, then you can decide if you want to push, attack, or reverse the side spins.
Many thanks.

luckyman
09-05-2014, 04:49 PM
Hi @LuckyMan

I use to have a good backhand and forehand and even service, but my receive of serves use to struggle real bad. It wasn't until I met @Gavin Rumgay I had to quickly adapt. His serves are very good, and when I first played him I just had no chance. However after time, I adapted to them. I found my receive of serves got a lot better against other players to. So what did I do to improve this? Here are a few tips below I found helped a lot.

I am going to use a general short or long backspin/sidespin serve in this scenario:

- Always expect the ball long when your receiving serves. if the serve has drifted long, it's much easier to topspin the ball because you are in the right position. if you move in to early, you can get stuck between the two shots (push shot or a topspin shot) which can force you to give a weak return. So on the receive if the ball is long, topspin it. If the ball is short, then step in and play the shot either short of aggressive long dig.
- Select a shot in your mind and commit to it. It is much better to learn from active/positive shots on the receive of serve.
- Keep it simple, don't play to hard or try to win the point on the receive of serve. Take your time, go from some placement.
- If someone is doing a crazy type of serve t(such as tomahawk) that your struggling with, it is most likely drifting long, so wait and topspin it.
- Play a lot of practice matches where your opponent serves the whole set/match.

Which particular serves are you struggling against? As suggested by some members here, it would be good if you could submit a video on here for us.

Thanks for your helpful advice, beside I am lack of experience, I know another I have another problems now, that is I always want to win my opponent right after they serve.

Dan
09-05-2014, 05:04 PM
Thanks for your helpful advice, beside I am lack of experience, I know another I have another problems now, that is I always want to win my opponent right after they serve.

That's okay. I think it's important to return the serve in a good placement to set yourself up for the next ball. Don't try and win outright unless you have a good opportunity. Be patient buddy. Vary your return mixing the receive up.

Good luck.

luckyman
09-06-2014, 08:50 AM
That's okay. I think it's important to return the serve in a good placement to set yourself up for the next ball. Don't try and win outright unless you have a good opportunity. Be patient buddy. Vary your return mixing the receive up.

Good luck.
Hi Dan, It's nice to meet you, and It seems to me that you are a positive member of forum, I find out your name in many comments in forum and other websites of table tennis. You know table tennis is my cup of tea now even though I've just played around three years ago after I got a serious trouble with my back. For sake of loving table tennis, I've collected a lot of videos and try to imitate the way of professional ones, especially Zhang Jike and Timo Boll, actually my backhand is quite good now, and I often use my backhand to cope with my opponent's serves. Nevertheless, it doesn't work sometimes. I am trying to improve my skills in returning services and loop, and I think it's enough for an amateur like me.

kewo123
09-06-2014, 03:55 PM
Ask your friends on your practice session for a service/return training. That's the only way to master receiving of service - practice, practice, practice.

Dan
09-06-2014, 04:08 PM
Hi Dan, It's nice to meet you, and It seems to me that you are a positive member of forum, I find out your name in many comments in forum and other websites of table tennis. You know table tennis is my cup of tea now even though I've just played around three years ago after I got a serious trouble with my back. For sake of loving table tennis, I've collected a lot of videos and try to imitate the way of professional ones, especially Zhang Jike and Timo Boll, actually my backhand is quite good now, and I often use my backhand to cope with my opponent's serves. Nevertheless, it doesn't work sometimes. I am trying to improve my skills in returning services and loop, and I think it's enough for an amateur like me.

Hey @LuckyMan it's nice to meet you to. You will meet a lot of enthusiastic table tennis players here om TTD :)

Yeah these are good players to watch and learn from. Cool 3 years playing, you'll soon click with your game and find things a lot easier once you've gone through the stage of working hard to get your basics very good and consistent.

gtardy80
03-06-2017, 05:48 AM
thanks ... good advice

Der_Echte
03-06-2017, 06:49 AM
Hi Dan, It's nice to meet you, and It seems to me that you are a positive member of forum, I find out your name in many comments in forum and other websites of table tennis. You know table tennis is my cup of tea now even though I've just played around three years ago after I got a serious trouble with my back. For sake of loving table tennis, I've collected a lot of videos and try to imitate the way of professional ones, especially Zhang Jike and Timo Boll, actually my backhand is quite good now, and I often use my backhand to cope with my opponent's serves. Nevertheless, it doesn't work sometimes. I am trying to improve my skills in returning services and loop, and I think it's enough for an amateur like me.

You will need to triple authenticate Urself and show 15 vids of Urself before anyone believes you... NOT.

TTD members only ask that for dubious situations.

We have many Vietnamese on this forum. At TTD, we all like to tell stories if you read only 1 percent of the forum... you will quickly see it.

Most will accept you as you are and enjoy it.

Der_Echte
03-06-2017, 06:51 AM
Holy Necro-Retro Job Batman !!!

Still, a good topic to relook.

Medax
03-07-2017, 09:11 AM
Thanks Eche for bringing this thread back to the top, makes for interesting reading.....

I got a newsletter the other day that links in quite nicely with this topic from a UK based coach by the name of Tom Lodziak :)

How to Return a Side Spin Serve: http://www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/how-to-return-a-sidespin-serve/

gmiller2233
10-18-2017, 10:03 PM
Nice clip, article above from coach Tom. I think anytime you face really good server, or even a new serve for me there is potential to net a few more balls. The problem with new or unfamiliar is that I often get caught in the looking, examining phases which can leads to a later response more passive returns.

Fore instance I don't get to see good backhand or reverse pendulum serves that often and it always seems to take a bit before I react with an optimal return when seeing them again.

I would not say serve return this is a strong point, but a few things that has really helped me improve here has been working hard at backhflips. some times committing to this stroke can cover slight misreads still getting the ball on in a pretty good position, raise confidence. And for some reason I find people more willing to drill flips and get your reps.

Of course There's no substitute to training a full range serve return game but Personally i have at times found this kind of hard thing to train at times for different reasons. It's kind of silly but I've found Sometimes people don't want to give more than a generic serve. And two people may not be able to do the serves you need work with. I do have a few guys to work on this with me and it's the best by far but I may not get to see them that often.


Would love to here other opinions on this, but A next best thing for me annyway Something I can do by myself) has been to just messing around on my own trying do every type of serve with every type of possible spin variations and contact point etc. I actually find this pretty fun and this is just me horsing around really and Some times I've been pretty suprized with the results and what's happening with the ball. everyone may not enjoy this but if your inclined, by doing this I feel like I've developed a better idea of what the ball is doing, how it's being contacted, how they are hiding the contact, and able to still to get there ball results. This is really been helpful especially when your facing a player that hides the contact really well when making in game adjustments. I may not be seeing the contact point at first but understanding the results and The probable contact, gives me confidence to make the adjustments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sanwei2018
01-02-2018, 04:09 AM
good thread