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Maxwell Choi
09-02-2014, 07:01 AM
Hey guys, I'm trying to find a rubber on my Timo Boll ALC blade that plays like Tenergy. Well, my Bluefire M2 kinda plays like Tenergy but Tenergy is a bit spinnier and softer. I was wondering if this new Evolution rubber could be faster and more controllable than Tenergy without losing any spin. Is MX-P suitable on Timo Boll ALC or is it just too fast (P.S I love rubbers that are fast and spinny without losing control)?

mahomedy13
09-02-2014, 07:15 AM
you could try rakza 7.that plays similar to tenergy,but a fraction cheaper.

Baal
09-03-2014, 03:17 AM
MX-P and EL-P can both be used pretty well by Tenergy users without a lot of adjustment. MX-P is a bit harder than T05, whereas EL-P is just a little softer. It should work well on a TB-ALC, I used them on a Viscaria. Personally I found the Evolution series to require less adjustment than the standard Bluefire rubbers. I still prefer Tenergy but the Evolution rubbers are the closest rubbers I have found. I haven't tried everything. I found MX-P to be just a touch faster than 05, but control very much depends on what kind of shot you are talking about.

Maxwell Choi
09-03-2014, 01:57 PM
Thanks a lot, Baal! I am actually a topspin oriented player who emphasises spin over everything. Is the MX-P very fast or uncontrollable on your forehand on a Viscaria (pretty similar to TBALC) for serving, topspinning, third ball attacking and blocking? These are the main problems than I have been worried about since I mainly use a third ball attack drive to win the point as well as some serious topspin loops kinda like Timo Boll. Mainly I just want to have a rubber that has good speed and control as well as strong spin. Is MX-P right for me?

Maxwell Choi
09-03-2014, 02:01 PM
Or perhaps Baal, if you have tried Tenergy/Bluefire (pretty much the same), can you please compare them with Evolution series if it doesn't take you too much time. I'm sure a lot of people wanna hear about it. Thanks a lot!

tabletennisuk
09-03-2014, 06:14 PM
Just bought the EL-P from the evolution range... hopefully it will enable me to have a little more control than the MX-p


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yogi_bear
09-04-2014, 01:25 AM
EL-P is very good but I think you need to boost it a little after a month. Unlike EL-P, the MX-P holds its bounciness way over 2 months

Der_Echte
09-04-2014, 02:31 AM
I tested MX-P a month before it hit the market. Ironically, it was on a Timo Boll ALC (Before it cracks :( )

I really liked it. Like Baal said, I had very little transition. I could hit faster with excellent spin. Overall, I think T05 is great rubber, but price is ridiculous expensive, so I moved away from it.

You will not be disappointed using MX-P on the ALC if you are an aggressive offensive player.

Der_Echte
09-04-2014, 02:34 AM
Ironically, it is FX-P that I REALLY really like on the flexy looping blades. Spin is outstanding and it is REAL easy to open the attack. VS players who like to step away from table, you will smile as your loops drop earlier than they think and you rack up the points. Your heavy medium loops will be much more troublesome to opponents if you slap FX-P on a flexy looping blade.

Baal
09-04-2014, 03:59 AM
Thanks a lot, Baal! I am actually a topspin oriented player who emphasises spin over everything. Is the MX-P very fast or uncontrollable on your forehand on a Viscaria (pretty similar to TBALC) for serving, topspinning, third ball attacking and blocking? These are the main problems than I have been worried about since I mainly use a third ball attack drive to win the point as well as some serious topspin loops kinda like Timo Boll. Mainly I just want to have a rubber that has good speed and control as well as strong spin. Is MX-P right for me?

You will be able to play pretty much the same way you do with Tenergy. Might take a couple of days to adjust, not more.

I was using MX-P, actually I think EL-P is a little closer to the feel of Tenergy, but MX-P is faster. Like Yogi says, you can extend life with some booster. It comes with a factory boost that you can smell strongly when you first open the package.

Maxwell Choi
09-04-2014, 07:30 AM
Is MX-P good for third ball attack?

yogi_bear
09-05-2014, 12:21 AM
everything

Killerspintt
01-29-2015, 12:45 AM
Tried the MX-P on my Zhang Jike and IF AL. Appart from the heavy weight, this rubber has everthing and plays very similar to a T05 with 2 layers of booster. Certainly the best post-glue era rubber that is "made in germany". I found it really faster than regular T05, and unlike T05, this rubber remains very fast even on a flexible blade (Tenergy 05 plays so well on stiff blades like BTY ALC's but is really inert on a flexible blade like IF AL).

If you are looking for something faster than T05 while keeping high throw, crazy spin and absolute linearity, this is the best choice IMHO.
Concerning the durability, from the feedback from team mates, the rubber has a very linear and slow drop of performances and keeps his speed glue effect for more than 2 month (of serious training and competitions), its almost a "record".

I have not liked all Tibhar tensors until now (nimbus, sinus, genius, 1q, 5q, aurus) but this mx-p is really impressive.

3Star
01-29-2015, 10:49 AM
you could try rakza 7.that plays similar to tenergy,but a fraction cheaper.

Well Tenergy is very overpriced and Rakza 7 is a lot cheaper but sadly you can't even compare the two when it comes to quality. I played with rakza 7 for a while and I have never been forced to change rubbers as often as then. They lost the spin really fast and I had also problems with bubbles on the top sheet of the rubber.

mahomedy13
01-29-2015, 10:59 AM
Well Tenergy is very overpriced and Rakza 7 is a lot cheaper but sadly you can't even compare the two when it comes to quality. I played with rakza 7 for a while and I have never been forced to change rubbers as often as then. They lost the spin really fast and I had also problems with bubbles on the top sheet of the rubber.

That is not what i expected.

With regards to bubbles,take a look at this thread

www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?9517-Small-bubbles-on-Victas-V-gt-01-Limber-topsheet

NextLevel
01-31-2015, 04:36 PM
For people who boost and need that kind of speed, I don't know, but Big Dipper in 38 degrees is very similar to unboosted MX-P and is only $20. Give it a shot if you need something that plays very well, especially with the plastic ball. It's already heavily tuned so those who need more tuning may need to look elsewhere or may try tuning it even more to see if it helps.

Killerspintt
02-01-2015, 01:11 PM
The Big Dippers you get seems to be tuned ALOT more than the one I can get in France (or more fresh). I found Big Dipper really slow and inert when I tested it at a local seller, miles away from MX-P. That day i tested also the Moon Speed with soft sponge and is was a lot faster than the Big Dipper (but still not comparable with MX-P).

vvk1
02-01-2015, 05:57 PM
The hype surrounding Big Dipper is almost reaching Palio Thor's level.

aznalanx32
02-01-2015, 06:30 PM
Try Rakza X. You might like it even though it might not be that close to Tenergy, but still is a good tensor.☺

NextLevel
02-02-2015, 01:16 AM
Yes, Big Dipper might not be fast to people who use heavily boosted stuff, but for me, when loop driving, I felt good spin. Sponge hardness does make a difference - the 40 deg is not quite as wild as the 38 deg - I prefer the latter.

It is hype but it might suit some people. Definitely suited me.

Der_Echte
02-02-2015, 02:35 AM
If you can make great bat speed, you can make an average rubber hit very hard. A lot of us do not have pro impact, especially on FH wing I don't have a pro impact as strong as I am, so I am very picky about my FH rubber and I understand the caution in rubber selection for those like me on FH.

The BH wing, however, I can make a ball go like rocket with just about anything, I'm very particular what I use on BH, any inverted rubber that is not anti works for me, but I value control.

I suspect Nexy Level can pack the smack on BH loopdrives like I do.

Killerspintt
03-13-2015, 12:32 PM
Just recieved my brand new Evolutions MX-P, I'll write a review in the next two weeks :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/11/1426249857-20150313-132755-1.jpg

Killerspintt
03-30-2015, 02:39 PM
Has promised, the review is finished and available here : http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/equipment/rubbers/7526-evolution-mx-p

Flash Gordon
04-01-2015, 11:33 AM
i would like to hear after you tested this mx-p rubber. it looks interesting when reading about it.

Paul Drinkhall
04-01-2015, 01:03 PM
I'm playing with the MX-P on both sides of my blade now. I really love the rubber,it's very fast but doesn't sacrifice control, and I can get a lot of 'arc' on my topspin attacking shots. I'm a big fan!

Flash Gordon
04-01-2015, 01:11 PM
I'm playing with the MX-P on both sides of my blade now. I really love the rubber,it's very fast but doesn't sacrifice control, and I can get a lot of 'arc' on my topspin attacking shots. I'm a big fan!
thanks paul. great to get your pro comments. very appreciated and helpful. good luck at the worlds in china.

UpSideDownCarl
04-01-2015, 05:38 PM
This is about Next Level and Dipper. I always find it interesting how people with different levels, using different kind of contacts (more use of topsheet, more use of sponge, use of sponge, topsheet and wood, more use of wood) can try the same rubber or rubber and blade combination and one will say: "this is fast and spinny with a lot of control!" Another will say, "no, that rubber is really slow and it was hard to place the ball!"

I have heard people say H3 was fast, slow, lots of gears, no gears, needs boosting, doesn't need boosting.

My guess from seeing footage is that Next Level has pretty high level contact and can dig into the ball with topsheet and sponge in a way that makes Dipper a great rubber for him. Someone who finds it slow may have a different kind of contact regardless of their level.



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UpSideDownCarl
04-01-2015, 05:39 PM
And it is fun to hear people describe Evolution MX-P and EL-P.


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AndySmith
04-01-2015, 08:26 PM
MX-S is on the way...

tabletennisuk
04-03-2015, 09:42 AM
Put the MX-S on yesterday.... it's awesome! Unbelievable spin!!


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Der_Echte
04-03-2015, 03:19 PM
You gunna get people scared of it... :D

7249

tabletennisuk
04-03-2015, 03:34 PM
Not planning to, it's only a piece of rubber....


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Mar5kid
11-12-2015, 10:47 PM
I'm also looking to get a combo of MX-P (FH) and either FX-P or EL-P(BH) to go on Tibhar Power Wood.
I try to play offensive on FH whenever I can, but the BH is weak so I need something with little more control and good spin.

Der_Echte found the MX-P not to perform so well with blades that are on the flexi side.
Would TSPW blade combine well with MX-P ?

If MX-P will not work well with this blade than i think i will go with EL-P & FX-P combo.

UpSideDownCarl
11-13-2015, 12:47 AM
I thought that myself at first. That MX-P wasn't going well with my sort of soft, flexy, 5 ply, all wood blade. But it was just that I needed to get used to it because it was harder than the rubber I was using before MX-P. It works really well on my blade.


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Der_Echte
11-13-2015, 03:54 AM
I'm also looking to get a combo of MX-P (FH) and either FX-P or EL-P(BH) to go on Tibhar Power Wood.
I try to play offensive on FH whenever I can, but the BH is weak so I need something with little more control and good spin.

Der_Echte found the MX-P not to perform so well with blades that are on the flexi side.
Would TSPW blade combine well with MX-P ?

If MX-P will not work well with this blade than i think i will go with EL-P & FX-P combo.

I slapped a sheet of MX-P on the Kim Jung Hoon... worked great.

By the way, when I ran into Kim Jung Hoon at Nexy HQ the day he talked to the President on how to make specs for his blade... KJH had 3 different Peter Pan and Power Wood blades. He was recently signed by Tibhar at the time.

The KJH is an upgrade to those blades personalized by KJH and I would say the Power Wood aught to go OK with MX-P if you choose to do it.

MX-P was a bad fit on my flexy weak blades.

Mar5kid
11-13-2015, 09:10 AM
Thanks for your input guys.

I just realized that the Tibhar Drinkhall racket reviewed recently was equipped with 2x MX-P and the there were no complaints on the matching of the two.
It is also a 5 Ply wood blade and according to the manufacturer stats i have seen on TD reviews, the TSPW should is the faster of the two - 9.0 v 7.8.
Unfortunately the user stats don't quite match up & give speed ratings of 8.4 v 8.8 to and hardness 5.1 v 8.8 to to Drinkhall. Not show how to interpret user stats v manufacture stats.

I was initially hoping to get the KJH blade to go with new rubbers but couldn't find a European seller.
I was surprised that it's not even listed on the Tibhar online store.

Does it sell under another name in EU ?

Can someone please point me in the right direction. Maybe a future consideration.

*Post Edited

NextLevel
11-13-2015, 11:26 AM
The whole thing about rubbers working with or not working with blade drives me nuts. My position is that you need to know what you are trying to do and that any rubber can work with any blade or cannot, as long as you know what you are trying to do.

Mar5kid
11-13-2015, 11:45 AM
I could be wrong but my thinking is that as long as you put top end rubber on even a half decent blade, it just requires the player to be able to adjust his strokes to suit the racket as opposed to the other way around. But than not all players can do the adjustments or prepared to put in the time so instead a racket is tailored to suit there current playing strokes.

I would say I'm not even an intermediate level player but just Very keen hobbyist that is returning to the game after 20 years. I have bags of enthusiasm and drive to improve my game and for this reason I prefer to use a higher spec'd racket so that i can adjust to its level of play.



*Please see EDIT of my previous post.

Exercised
11-13-2015, 12:38 PM
Would like to help but have only tried Evolution EL-P :(

UpSideDownCarl
11-13-2015, 01:51 PM
I would say I'm not even an intermediate level player but just Very keen hobbyist that is returning to the game after 20 years. I have bags of enthusiasm and drive to improve my game and for this reason I prefer to use a higher spec'd racket so that i can adjust to its level of play.

In theory that sounds good but that is not how the development of table tennis skills in conjunction with table tennis equipment actually works.

A player at a lower level who uses a fast composite blade and the high end tensor type rubbers can hinder his ability to develop certain techniques because that kind of equipment does not help you cultivate your touch and feel for the ball. With that kind of equipment a mid level player is likely to plateau at a level where he does not get enough spin on the ball because that kind of racket makes all your shots feel good even when your contact is bad and the ball goes back fast when you mess up even though it doesn't have good spin.

Higher level technique is all based on the ability to feel the ball and hold the ball on the racket (touch), so, touch and feel. And using a racket that is a rocket launcher and thinking you are just going to get used to it, well, you will, and anything slower will feel too slow, but you will have a much harder time developing higher level technique with a racket that doesn't help you feel the ball and does not allow you to hold the ball on the blade surface for longer (dwell time). So, with a high level racket, you are actually encouraged to bang the ball instead of spinning the ball.

This remains the case until players are at, approximately, a semi-pro level where their technique is good enough and their contact is precise enough to keep the ball on that blade face and rubber for longer with one of those harder, faster blades.

Rubbers, you can get used to a rubber like Tenergy at a lower level, but, if you are using them, you should be spinning the ball or making a real effort to learn to spin the heck out of the ball if you are using something like that. Tenergy or some of the faster/spinnier Tensor rubbers will not be a good fit if you are just driving the ball without learning how to spin and make brush contact of varying depths.

One way to tell if your rubber is not so great for you is this: If an opponent 1 level higher than you can make you miss his serves just because of the kind and amount of spin he is putting on the ball, then you probably want a rubber that has more control and is less reactive to spin until you have learned how to read spin and counter spin better.

So, for an intermediate level player, an example of a good setup for developing table tennis technique and skills would be something like this:

Tibhar Stratus Power Wood (5 ply all wood blade in the Off- speed range)
FH rubber Xiom Vega Pro (older version of tensor rubber with good control and good enough spin to learn to spin the ball effectively.)
BH rubber Xiom Vega Europe (very similar to FH rubber but a bit softer for the touch of the BH stroke).

I could replace the blade with several others in its speed category. Same with the rubbers. But it gives you an idea of what someone who is not at a semi-pro level yet should be using.

UpSideDownCarl
11-13-2015, 02:43 PM
I guess, one more related issue with a faster composite blade, and high end tensor rubbers. When all that other stuff is going on, if you do not have good technique it will cause you to cut down your stroke and make it smaller, perhaps even cause you not to follow through fully because you are trying to get the ball on the table. So, it can give you bad habits. And because the ball is going more than fast enough with this fast racket and the incomplete stroke, you are less likely to learn how to add your full body, your legs, your hips and the weight transfer into the ball on your stroke. So, until those things are built into your stroke, a faster composite blade could really cause your stroke to not develop how it should.

Really, this is all in the first post. But the touch and feel on the ball is one part of things. The ability to brush at different depths rather than purely driving the ball is another element to good technique which is of course related. The stroke and follow through, the bat speed and acceleration are another issue. And getting the body mechanics of timing the legs, hips and weight transfer are another element. A fast composite blade would make all of these elements much harder to learn, develop and get into your muscle memory and body mechanics. A player who already really has those ingrained in muscle memory will be able to use a faster composite blade. But a player whose technique is not that of an elite player, will only harm his development of those techniques by using something hard, fast and unforgiving.

NextLevel
11-13-2015, 03:07 PM
When I coach someone who is using a faster blade/setup at the intermediate level, the challenge is getting them to relax more and hit the ball more softly. The illusion of table tennis is that pros are getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible. It takes some time to see that pros are actually trying to hold on to the ball long enough to control it and impart spin/speed but release it quickly enough to prevent their opponent from having time to respond to the shot. Because the time the ball spends on the racket is relatively short, the beginner/intermediate sees the illusion of trying to hit the ball hard, but cannot see the wasted power that goes into spinning the ball. If pros actually hit the ball flat and hard with their strokes, their balls would fly long and gouge eyes.:p

Mar5kid
11-13-2015, 04:58 PM
@upsidedowncarl thank you for your extended informative reply.

I now better understand the importance of having a racket that matches the players ability.

I played extensively at school and im happy to say it's been like getting back on the bike - although a rusty one. Maybe I have got a little ahead of myself in all the excitement of rediscovering the game again. I need to be more patient to get my gameplay back to where it was and possibly exceed it.

Reading your post has been a good refresher and reminded me of some playing habits that I need to pay attention to. Excellent post.

NextLevel
11-13-2015, 05:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts15JPS1K-w

NextLevel
11-13-2015, 05:35 PM
@upsidedowncarl thank you for your extended informative reply.

I now better understand the importance of having a racket that matches the players ability.

I played extensively at school and im happy to say it's been like getting back on the bike - although a rusty one. Maybe I have got a little ahead of myself in all the excitement of rediscovering the game again. I need to be more patient to get my gameplay back to where it was and possibly exceed it.

Reading your post has been a good refresher and reminded me of some playing habits that I need to pay attention to. Excellent post.

The biggest problem I see among those who want to develop good technique is a desire to get good too fast because they don't see the risks of doing so and think that there are only benefits to trying and failing. There are also serious negatives as well unless the process is guided by a coach who is fully aware of the full process and is willing to talk you through it. So I am happy that Carl has opened your eyes.

For example, I often hear people who want to start with advanced equipment point to what children use. Children who use advanced equipment as a rule usually get more high level coaching, get better instruction, and most importantly, are not as reluctant to experiment as adults are. Therefore, they make and miss shots with their equipment that fully round out the learning process. When you combine this with the improved instruction and their modelling of better players intuitively, they can use just about anything.

With adults, my experience is that every single miss makes the adult depressed, tense or <insert whatever negative emotion comes to mind here>. If adults had the time and were more willing to embrace the importance of error as part of the learning process, the fact that the faster equipment acerbates errors would probably be less of an issue in teaching some of them. But then, there are still issues like the lower feedback that the adults get from faster equipment that are harder to control for. So rather than rely on talent to fix the problem, I just start people off with middle of the road stuff, change the rubber after a while and then depending on how they want to play, change the blade too. But whether you get better or not, the #1 thing I stress is to be relaxed. Tense technique is destructive.

If forced to choosed between MX-P and T05, I am still a T05 fan, BTW.

Der_Echte
11-13-2015, 08:32 PM
Thanks for your input guys.

I just realized that the Tibhar Drinkhall racket reviewed recently was equipped with 2x MX-P and the there were no complaints on the matching of the two.
It is also a 5 Ply wood blade and according to the manufacturer stats i have seen on TD reviews, the TSPW should is the faster of the two - 9.0 v 7.8.
Unfortunately the user stats don't quite match up & give speed ratings of 8.4 v 8.8 to and hardness 5.1 v 8.8 to to Drinkhall. Not show how to interpret user stats v manufacture stats.

I was initially hoping to get the KJH blade to go with new rubbers but couldn't find a European seller.
I was surprised that it's not even listed on the Tibhar online store.

Does it sell under another name in EU ?

Can someone please point me in the right direction. Maybe a future consideration.

*Post Edited

Nexy Europe does not stock the KJH. Kim Jung Hoon told Nexy Korea President what he wanted for the blade and he designed it under the Tibhar brand as a Korea-Only thing. Nexy USA imported it too.

Since Nexy Europe doesn't carry it on their wesite, try Nexy Korea (nexy.com) but you are gunna pay for international shipping. The KJH is worth it. If the website doesn't show it, email the manager Lee jdbfud33@naver.com and he will quote you a price consistent with the Korean TAK9.com website, prolly $120 USD.

UpSideDownCarl
11-13-2015, 09:04 PM
Nexy Europe does not stock the KJH. Kim Jung Hoon told Nexy Korea President what he wanted for the blade and he designed it under the Tibhar brand as a Korea-Only thing. Nexy USA imported it too.

Since Nexy Europe doesn't carry it on their wesite, try Nexy Korea (nexy.com) but you are gunna pay for international shipping. The KJH is worth it. If the website doesn't show it, email the manager Lee jdbfud33@naver.com and he will quote you a price consistent with the Korean TAK9.com website, prolly $120 USD.

Yep. Probably easiest to get it from NexyUSA.com.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

Der_Echte
11-14-2015, 12:27 AM
Thanks for your input guys.

I just realized that the Tibhar Drinkhall racket reviewed recently was equipped with 2x MX-P and the there were no complaints on the matching of the two.
It is also a 5 Ply wood blade and according to the manufacturer stats i have seen on TD reviews, the TSPW should is the faster of the two - 9.0 v 7.8.
Unfortunately the user stats don't quite match up & give speed ratings of 8.4 v 8.8 to and hardness 5.1 v 8.8 to to Drinkhall. Not show how to interpret user stats v manufacture stats.

I was initially hoping to get the KJH blade to go with new rubbers but couldn't find a European seller.
I was surprised that it's not even listed on the Tibhar online store.

Does it sell under another name in EU ?

Can someone please point me in the right direction. Maybe a future consideration.

*Post Edited


I guess, one more related issue with a faster composite blade, and high end tensor rubbers. When all that other stuff is going on, if you do not have good technique it will cause you to cut down your stroke and make it smaller, perhaps even cause you not to follow through fully because you are trying to get the ball on the table. So, it can give you bad habits. And because the ball is going more than fast enough with this fast racket and the incomplete stroke, you are less likely to learn how to add your full body, your legs, your hips and the weight transfer into the ball on your stroke. So, until those things are built into your stroke, a faster composite blade could really cause your stroke to not develop how it should.

Really, this is all in the first post. But the touch and feel on the ball is one part of things. The ability to brush at different depths rather than purely driving the ball is another element to good technique which is of course related. The stroke and follow through, the bat speed and acceleration are another issue. And getting the body mechanics of timing the legs, hips and weight transfer are another element. A fast composite blade would make all of these elements much harder to learn, develop and get into your muscle memory and body mechanics. A player who already really has those ingrained in muscle memory will be able to use a faster composite blade. But a player whose technique is not that of an elite player, will only harm his development of those techniques by using something hard, fast and unforgiving.

Carl, you are absolutely RIGHT in ALL that you said above and that is a classic (proper, yes) pundit position, but let's be real... most errors at that level are from misreading spin, not comprehending spin, tactics and a hundred other things.

At the end of the day, I agree with the pundit camp and advocate middle of the road for control spin pace equipment when learning.

Mar5kid
11-14-2015, 12:50 AM
Thank you guys again for sharing your valuable wisdom.

The KJH is going to go on hold because of the difficulty to get hold of it in UK combined with costs inc. duty taxes. Maybe I will be lucky to pick up a used one in the future and swap over rubbers.

For now I will with be ordering the TSPW blade and I still need to decide on rubbers.
The club I attend has allowed me to borrow an old racket with 2x T05 rubber on a donic blade. The rubbers on that blade are pretty much worn out and I have still been able to play with a good offensive forehand and the backhand wasn't too bad either considering it's always been my weaker hand. For this reason I thought the MX-P might be a good rubber for me as is it is considered a good T05 alternative. Also the MX-P is reported to be quite durable and able to maintain its characteristics for a good while which is also attractive. I read user reviews of EL-P pointing out its characteristics changed for the worse quite quickly with time which is not encouraging. I was thinking of using this on BH.

I would have had my order completed & delivered by now was it not for the fact that the EL-P in 2mm red for BH is still out of stock with TT11. Waiting around to get my racket ordered has given me too much time to ponder too many other possibilities inc. KJH, MX-P x2 etc. It's driving me crazy.
I can't wait to have my own racket in my hands so that I can start to play with it consistently and learn and to make necessary adjustments.

UpSideDownCarl
11-14-2015, 02:18 PM
For now I will with be ordering the TSPW blade and I still need to decide on rubbers.
The club I attend has allowed me to borrow an old racket with 2x T05 rubber on a donic blade. The rubbers on that blade are pretty much worn out and I have still been able to play with a good offensive forehand and the backhand wasn't too bad either considering it's always been my weaker hand. For this reason I thought the MX-P might be a good rubber for me as is it is considered a good T05 alternative. Also the MX-P is reported to be quite durable and able to maintain its characteristics for a good while which is also attractive. I read user reviews of EL-P pointing out its characteristics changed for the worse quite quickly with time which is not encouraging. I was thinking of using this on BH.

What blade are you referring to when you say TSPW? Tibhar Stratus Power Wood? Or a blade from TSP? I think the Power Wood.

Also, you should know, MX-P is pretty hard. It is better for someone who gets big impact like pro or semipro level. If your impact is consistent, deep and powerful on brush strokes (I know, brush + big impact sounds funny) then it is very good. If not, you are better off with EL-P or FX-P. Like, MX-P is a decent notch and a half harder than T05.

You definitely should not get MX-P for your backhand if what you said above is the case. You probably shouldn't get MX-P for forehand based on what got me started on information on good rackets.

That Stratus Power Wood, or the Drinkhall Offensive Classic should be good choices for a blade so I think you are on the right track there. I think FX-P on both sides or EL-P on FH with FX-P on BH would be a good combination.

It should not be a big problem to wait till EL-P is in before getting your racket. But, based on what you said about your backhand you should probably be using FX-P for backhand.

Mar5kid
11-14-2015, 04:55 PM
You are correct, its a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

With it being not a particularly hard blade (7ply/carbon) I thought the MX-P might be slowed down a little and possibly balance it out so that it is closer in performance to T05. What do you think ?

I'm attracted to the MX-P because of its playing characteristics & also its durability. I'm under the impressions it's more durable than the Vega range that I was considering before I discovered the merits of the MX-P.

I read some user complaints saying the EL-P characteristics kept on changing with time. Am I right to believe that the EL-P is heavy boosted rubber and its performance starts diminishing rather quickly ? Maybe Auris or 5Q range are better on backhand ?

UpSideDownCarl
11-14-2015, 05:30 PM
I have tried MX-P and FX-P. I actually have not tried EL-P so I could be wrong, but I think EL-P should primarily be half way between them in hardness. I think the topsheet is slightly different but it shouldn't be that different. That being said, it is true, I have not heard many great things about EL-P.

MX-P is pretty hard. You might be fine with it on FH. But you would probably be better off with FX-P since you are leery of EL-P.

In the end, nothing too bad will happen if you get MX-P for your forehand. I could be wrong and it could work well. But my experience is, if you are not at a decently high level with the technique of your FH you won't fully get the gears and potential that MX-P offers when you can brush deep with big impact.

But, based on something you said about your BH you will definitely not be wanting MX-P on BH and FX-P would probably be a very good option for the BH. Sure there are loads of other options. But FX-P would probably be good for you on both sides. And the odds are that FX-P would be better for you on FH than MX-P.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

NextLevel
11-14-2015, 06:03 PM
You are correct, its a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

With it being not a particularly hard blade (7ply/carbon) I thought the MX-P might be slowed down a little and possibly balance it out so that it is closer in performance to T05. What do you think ?

I'm attracted to the MX-P because of its playing characteristics & also its durability. I'm under the impressions it's more durable than the Vega range that I was considering before I discovered the merits of the MX-P.

I read some user complaints saying the EL-P characteristics kept on changing with time. Am I right to believe that the EL-P is heavy boosted rubber and its performance starts diminishing rather quickly ? Maybe Auris or 5Q range are better on backhand ?

Beware of reading too much into table tennis reviews if you don't know much about the reviewer. BTW, MX-P is at least as heavily boosted as EL-P.

Mar5kid
11-16-2015, 12:30 AM
@NextLevel Unfortunately I have no chance to try these rubbers out first hand. Only thing I can do is read many user opinions as possible and than try to form an opinion of its suitability. Going by manufacturer stats alone EL-P on FH with EL-P/FX-P on BH is probably the best combo for me right now.
As UpsideSownCarl commented the opinions on EL-P are not too positive when it comes to durability.
I would happy to hear otherwise from some users that champion the EL-P.

@UpsideDownCarl FX-P/FX-P combo is a possibly a good suggestion. Concern is that it it might not be fast enough for my offensive Forehand.
In a rally I like to be able to play mid distance back and loop hard and fast with the ball traveling very low. I have enjoyed being able to do this with the T05.

Unless someone can redeem the EL-P I think I will compromise and go with MX-P/FX-P combo. At least this way I can get to try out two different Tihbar rubbers and than possibly sell one if it is not suitable.

UpSideDownCarl
11-16-2015, 12:44 AM
I think that is a fair assessment. When you get the two, flip the racket around every so often to see if FX-P works for your FH too. I felt it was pretty fine when I tried it. I would be totally fine using FX-P on both sides. It felt more than fast enough to me. And really good for spinning the ball.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

NextLevel
11-16-2015, 02:50 AM
@NextLevel Unfortunately I have no chance to try these rubbers out first hand. Only thing I can do is read many user opinions as possible and than try to form an opinion of its suitability. Going by manufacturer stats alone EL-P on FH with EL-P/FX-P on BH is probably the best combo for me right now.
As UpsideSownCarl commented the opinions on EL-P are not too positive when it comes to durability.
I would happy to hear otherwise from some users that champion the EL-P.

@UpsideDownCarl FX-P/FX-P combo is a possibly a good suggestion. Concern is that it it might not be fast enough for my offensive Forehand.
In a rally I like to be able to play mid distance back and loop hard and fast with the ball traveling very low. I have enjoyed being able to do this with the T05.

Unless someone can redeem the EL-P I think I will compromise and go with MX-P/FX-P combo. At least this way I can get to try out two different Tihbar rubbers and than possibly sell one if it is not suitable.

Many people have said very good things about EL-P on mytabletennis.net so I have not heard the negative reports about its durability until today. But again, this is something that you decide as you see fit. If I trusted what people said about the durability of Donic Baracuda online, I would never use it for all the wrong reasons.

UpSideDownCarl
11-16-2015, 04:04 AM
Many people have said very good things about EL-P on mytabletennis.net so I have not heard the negative reports about its durability until today. But again, this is something that you decide as you see fit. If I trusted what people said about the durability of Donic Baracuda online, I would never use it for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah, I have to be honest, I can't imagine that MX-P and FX-P would be so good and the one that is half way in between them not be as good. And my MX-P is lasting pretty darn well. I have had it for a bit over 2.5 months and it still feels spinny as all get out.

Mar5kid
11-17-2015, 02:30 PM
Pulled the trigger today and went with MX/FX-P combo on TSPW.

I feel relieved that at last I have placed the order as I have been wasting way too much time pondering back and forth.
I can't wait to get the new racket into my hands ; )

Will report back how I get on with the two rubbers.

Thanks NextLevel & UpsidedownCarl for all of your invaluable advice.
I went through number of other threads and also found your input very helpful.

Guys like you clearly make this site what it is. Cheers !

TomasZ
11-17-2015, 02:43 PM
I suggest you new Cornilleau Target Pro GT47
or one of the Tibhar Evolution series MX-S

both excellent results on carbon layers especially with poly balls

UpSideDownCarl
11-17-2015, 04:06 PM
I suggest you new Cornilleau Target Pro GT47
or one of the Tibhar Evolution series MX-S

both excellent results on carbon layers especially with poly balls

See, maybe I missed something, but I just don't get stuff like this. Mar5kid has said he already ordered. He was looking for an all wood blade and here you have someone suggesting rubbers for a carbon blade.

I don't know. Maybe he posted without seeing that Mar5kid already ordered and is exited to try the new setup. But, still, if he is talking about how certain rubbers work with carbon he can't have actually read or understood too much from the thread.

Oh well, it is all good. I am sure TomasZ was just trying to be helpful.

But reading the thread makes it much more possible to help someone. It is interesting how often I see comments where it is obvious the person could not have read the previous comments in the thread.

Like this:

Question: "I am looking for a good all wood blade that is 5 ply and not too fast. Hopefully the blade costs less than $120.00 (USD) Can anyone help?"

Reply: "Try the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC it is really fast!"

Wait, all wood, not too fast, JM SZLC??????

I've actually seen that one.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

NextLevel
11-17-2015, 04:10 PM
Question: "I am looking for a good all wood blade that is 5 ply and not too fast. Hopefully the blade costs less than $120.00 (USD) Can anyone help?"

Reply: "Try the Jun Mizutani Super ZLC it is really fast!"

Wait, all wood, not too fast, JM SZLC??????

I've actually seen that one.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

If a $400 blade isn't good enough for everyone, what is? You just don't know what you are talking about, and that's the bottom line.

UpSideDownCarl
11-17-2015, 05:11 PM
If a $400 blade isn't good enough for everyone, what is? You just don't know what you are talking about, and that's the bottom line.

Now I think I've done it and the goon squad is after me again. I'm going to need help from the DC and Philly Mafia to avoid them because the trap door in the entrance to the secret hideout is having some maintenance done on it.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

SpinWins
11-17-2015, 06:00 PM
In theory that sounds good but that is not how the development of table tennis skills in conjunction with table tennis equipment actually works.

A player at a lower level who uses a fast composite blade and the high end tensor type rubbers can hinder his ability to develop certain techniques because that kind of equipment does not help you cultivate your touch and feel for the ball. With that kind of equipment a mid level player is likely to plateau at a level where he does not get enough spin on the ball because that kind of racket makes all your shots feel good even when your contact is bad and the ball goes back fast when you mess up even though it doesn't have good spin.

Higher level technique is all based on the ability to feel the ball and hold the ball on the racket (touch), so, touch and feel. And using a racket that is a rocket launcher and thinking you are just going to get used to it, well, you will, and anything slower will feel too slow, but you will have a much harder time developing higher level technique with a racket that doesn't help you feel the ball and does not allow you to hold the ball on the blade surface for longer (dwell time). So, with a high level racket, you are actually encouraged to bang the ball instead of spinning the ball.

This remains the case until players are at, approximately, a semi-pro level where their technique is good enough and their contact is precise enough to keep the ball on that blade face and rubber for longer with one of those harder, faster blades.

Rubbers, you can get used to a rubber like Tenergy at a lower level, but, if you are using them, you should be spinning the ball or making a real effort to learn to spin the heck out of the ball if you are using something like that. Tenergy or some of the faster/spinnier Tensor rubbers will not be a good fit if you are just driving the ball without learning how to spin and make brush contact of varying depths.

One way to tell if your rubber is not so great for you is this: If an opponent 1 level higher than you can make you miss his serves just because of the kind and amount of spin he is putting on the ball, then you probably want a rubber that has more control and is less reactive to spin until you have learned how to read spin and counter spin better.

So, for an intermediate level player, an example of a good setup for developing table tennis technique and skills would be something like this:

Tibhar Stratus Power Wood (5 ply all wood blade in the Off- speed range)
FH rubber Xiom Vega Pro (older version of tensor rubber with good control and good enough spin to learn to spin the ball effectively.)
BH rubber Xiom Vega Europe (very similar to FH rubber but a bit softer for the touch of the BH stroke).

I could replace the blade with several others in its speed category. Same with the rubbers. But it gives you an idea of what someone who is not at a semi-pro level yet should be using.

I wish I saw a post like this when I started to play! Good info. With this blade and rubber I would pick 2.0 thickness i think.

Der_Echte
11-18-2015, 01:08 AM
Now I think I've done it and the goon squad is after me again. I'm going to need help from the DC and Philly Mafia to avoid them because the trap door in the entrance to the secret hideout is having some maintenance done on it.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

I helped you out by printing a large banner in Goon Squad SECRET CODE (that only Goon Squad understands from HQ... shhh. Don't let on that I cracked their code) The banner decoded reads as such and leads to the secondary slide entrance to the basement septic tank.
"DC and Philly teams, free cold beer down here"

Tompa8888
05-22-2016, 10:15 PM
1001610017

<3 <3

Der_Echte
05-23-2016, 03:14 AM
MX-P is now the official FH rubber of Der_Echte the last half year and no one can argue about the results.

I have now decked out nearly every one of the ten test blade models of Nexy blades I carry in my Rucksack with MX-P on FH.

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 05:54 AM
Is EL-P a softer and a bit slower version of MX-P? I mean throw angle, bounciness and top sheet grip are about the same?

ajtatosmano2
05-23-2016, 06:39 AM
MX-P feels a LOT differently from T05, but plays nearly the same. It's faster and has a lower throw angle.

Der_Echte
05-23-2016, 08:01 AM
Luis, good luck with EL-P, I never liked it at all, feel was wrong. Loved FX-P and MX-P though. Hope you like it more than I did.

russell
05-23-2016, 10:45 AM
Are any of the Evolution rubbers close to Tenergy 05 FX?

Kaizoku
05-23-2016, 11:35 AM
Are any of the Evolution rubbers close to Tenergy 05 FX?

Tenergy 05 has (on average) 47 degrees hardness. Tenergy 05-FX is 4 softer aka 43. (this is all according to standard euro degrees)
MX-P is 45,7-47,7
EL-P is 42,2-44,4
FX-P is 39,1-41,1

So, I would guess the most similar to T05-FX is EL-P. FX-P seems a bit too soft... However I am not too sure how much of a difference the top sheet does to the feel compared to same sponges. But I would go for EL-P. Unless you want it softer than T05-FX.
NB: EL-S will be inbetween EL-P and MX-P
and FX-S will be inbetween EL-P and FX-P. And I've heard they won't be like the MX-S with softer sponge.

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 12:44 PM
Despite the feeling, the arc you get EL-P on loops is about the same you get with MX-P?

I just found comparisons to MX-P related to speed and sponge hardness.

rokphish
05-23-2016, 12:48 PM
Anyone tried the National version of MX-P and FX-P?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/36500720fcad10cd71d3b8b7501e91de.jpg

More pics on instagram: rokphishtt

Airoc
05-23-2016, 01:27 PM
Anyone tried the National version of MX-P and FX-P?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/36500720fcad10cd71d3b8b7501e91de.jpg

More pics on instagram: rokphishtt

No need to try them, they're fake. The rubbers are the standard rubbers with a custom-made cover.

Airoc
05-23-2016, 01:29 PM
Is EL-P a softer and a bit slower version of MX-P? I mean throw angle, bounciness and top sheet grip are about the same?

No, it is not. EL-P is the standout rubber from the series as it has its own topsheet.
FX-P and MX-P have the same topsheet, but a different sponge hardness.
EL-P's hardness is in the middle of these two, but its topsheet is more stiff.

As for the MX-S and the upcoming EL-S and FX-S, there is also a different formula that applies.
EL-S and FX-S have the same topsheet but not the same as MX-S.

So the Evolution series has 4 topsheets spread over six rubbers.

Airoc
05-23-2016, 01:31 PM
Tenergy 05 has (on average) 47 degrees hardness. Tenergy 05-FX is 4 softer aka 43. (this is all according to standard euro degrees)
MX-P is 45,7-47,7
EL-P is 42,2-44,4
FX-P is 39,1-41,1

So, I would guess the most similar to T05-FX is EL-P. FX-P seems a bit too soft... However I am not too sure how much of a difference the top sheet does to the feel compared to same sponges. But I would go for EL-P. Unless you want it softer than T05-FX.
NB: EL-S will be inbetween EL-P and MX-P
and FX-S will be inbetween EL-P and FX-P. And I've heard they won't be like the MX-S with softer sponge.

The topsheet of El-P is quite stiff. I haven´t played with 05fx much but I think FX-P is the closest in overall feeling, albeit softer as you said.

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 01:35 PM
No, it is not. EL-P is the standout rubber from the series as it has its own topsheet.
FX-P and MX-P have the same topsheet, but a different sponge hardness.
EL-P's hardness is in the middle of these two, but its topsheet is more stiff.

As for the MX-S and the upcoming EL-S and FX-S, there is also a different formula that applies.
EL-S and FX-S have the same topsheet but not the same as MX-S.

So the Evolution series has 4 topsheets spread over six rubbers.

Not good news at all :-(

I was thinking about an a little bit softer version of MX-P with similar characteristics.

UpSideDownCarl
05-23-2016, 01:46 PM
I have player with MX-P on both sides. It is darn good. I have tried EL-P and FX-P. To me they all feel good. I could use any one of them. But EL-P would take more getting used to because of the different topsheet. It is good rubber. It just feels a bit different than MX-P and FX-P.

Right now I actually have T05 and T64 on my blade. But on my next change of rubber I will have MX-P and FX-P on there. Then I will be able to have a better judgement about FX-P.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 01:52 PM
I have player with MX-P on both sides. It is darn good. I have tried EL-P and FX-P. To me they all feel good. I could use any one of them. But EL-P would take more getting used to because of the different topsheet. It is good rubber. It just feels a bit different than MX-P and FX-P.

Right now I actually have T05 and T64 on my blade. But on my next change of rubber I will have MX-P and FX-P on there. Then I will be able to have a better judgement about FX-P.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Can I get a nice arc with EL-P the way I get with MX-P and M1?

Airoc
05-23-2016, 02:06 PM
Not good news at all :-(

I was thinking about an a little bit softer version of MX-P with similar characteristics.

If you select the lightest available sheets you should get a good solution.

Despite that, you will surely be able to get a nice arc out of EL-P, too. It is still a topspin rubber, even if it is more suited to the direct counter/block/smash game than the other Evolutions.

You may also want to wait for the FX-S ... It has considerably less catapult than MX-P, but in passive game that's a pro. Spin and speed capabilities are exceptional. I think the EL-S will be a real beast, but the FX-S is still controllable and doesn't feel like a soft rubber at all.

rokphish
05-23-2016, 03:06 PM
No need to try them, they're fake. The rubbers are the standard rubbers with a custom-made cover.
Have you seen them in your hands? If you have you'll know the difference. There's marker to differentiate from the standard ones. Unless, you had seen the fake ones indeed where everything is exactly the same.

rokphish
05-23-2016, 03:07 PM
The different markers are on the rubbers not on the packaging/cover.

Killerspintt
05-23-2016, 03:14 PM
No need to try them, they're fake. The rubbers are the standard rubbers with a custom-made cover.

I didnt tried those national versions.......but I've still got them into my hands at my local tt-store, the "national evolution" I had into my hands was really harder than any mx-p I've seen before, I think it was a 50° sponge.

Kaizoku
05-23-2016, 03:15 PM
No, it is not. EL-P is the standout rubber from the series as it has its own topsheet.
FX-P and MX-P have the same topsheet, but a different sponge hardness.
EL-P's hardness is in the middle of these two, but its topsheet is more stiff.

As for the MX-S and the upcoming EL-S and FX-S, there is also a different formula that applies.
EL-S and FX-S have the same topsheet but not the same as MX-S.

So the Evolution series has 4 topsheets spread over six rubbers.

Interesting! I did tbh not know that. I know there is a different formula than MX-S, it will be more similar to MX-P/EL-P I heard. My buddy has Sigma 2 euro both sides. (on intencity nct v, all wood) He was going LP on one side and I was going to recomend he swap to Evolution EL-P on fh(the rubber closest to Sigma 2 euro in the evolution series I presume, based on ttdb info)
How do you think it compares to Sigma 2 euro (xiom)? (if you have used it)
The alternative was waiting for EL-S as I think FX-P is too soft for him. Opinions?

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 04:28 PM
Despite that, you will surely be able to get a nice arc out of EL-P, too. It is still a topspin rubber, even if it is more suited to the direct counter/block/smash game than the other Evolutions.

So I think I'm going to be fine with EL-P


You may also want to wait for the FX-S ... It has considerably less catapult than MX-P, but in passive game that's a pro. Spin and speed capabilities are exceptional. I think the EL-S will be a real beast, but the FX-S is still controllable and doesn't feel like a soft rubber at all.

I may not try another rubber from -S series, EL-P is coming to replace a MX-S. Both the lack of catapult and the lower arc are the reasons I'm going away from MX-S and the Rasant Grip I had on this blade before. MX-P could be my safest choice because I like it on my BH too, but I'd like to try one more rubber before closing my search.

MDP
05-23-2016, 04:36 PM
Which evolution rubbers is closest (or the upgrade) to the original Tibhar Genius?
Or are these rubbers miles apart?

UpSideDownCarl
05-23-2016, 06:30 PM
1001610017

<3 <3

That is a nice setup. I had not tried the Offensive S till last week. But it feels really nice. Good crisp feel. Good speed for a 5 ply all wood blade.

Tompa8888
05-23-2016, 08:26 PM
That is a nice setup. I had not tried the Offensive S till last week. But it feels really nice. Good crisp feel. Good speed for a 5 ply all wood blade.

Yeah it is awesome!! :D feels really good, for being a 5 ply blade i was suprised. Good speed, good feel and control

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 09:01 PM
Yeah it is awesome!! :D feels really good, for being a 5 ply blade i was suprised. Good speed, good feel and control

I don't think you can have a slow setup with MX-P 2.1.

The blade should provide the feel, dwell time and control you may need.

Tompa8888
05-23-2016, 09:33 PM
I don't think you can have a slow setup with MX-P 2.1.

The blade should provide the feel, dwell time and control you may need.

I didn't say it was slow! But i've tried on a bunch of blades. The dwell time differs depending on blade. I liked the appelgren world champion 89 and on korbel. Korbel was a little bit to slow and soft. This feels perfect!

Luis Nasche
05-23-2016, 10:21 PM
I didn't say it was slow! But i've tried on a bunch of blades. The dwell time differs depending on blade. I liked the appelgren world champion 89 and on korbel. Korbel was a little bit to slow and soft. This feels perfect!

Nice to hear.

I've got a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood with MX-P on the way home. My son should be the main user, but I'm going to play a bit with this blade every now and then too.

Airoc
05-23-2016, 10:57 PM
I didnt tried those national versions.......but I've still got them into my hands at my local tt-store, the "national evolution" I had into my hands was really harder than any mx-p I've seen before, I think it was a 50° sponge.

A 50 degree sponge is possible - some extra densities are made for pro players. This is not unusual.

Yet there is no "National Version", the whole German flag thing is bollocks.

Just to get you thinking: A "National Version" makes sense if a product is made in a country, the best version of it then supplied to the National players - this is why China has "National" versions of DHS products.

Germany's sponsor is Butterfly. Boll is personally sponsored by Butterfly. Ovtcharov and Baum are sponsored by Donic. Steger uses Butterfly. The list goes on.

Now what national team would that "National" version be for?

Airoc
05-23-2016, 10:59 PM
Which evolution rubbers is closest (or the upgrade) to the original Tibhar Genius?
Or are these rubbers miles apart?

As for sponge hardness, the MX-P is closest (47.5). You might call it a Super-Genius, if you´re so inclined. Or the next step in the, well, Evolution ;-)

Airoc
05-23-2016, 11:03 PM
Interesting! I did tbh not know that. I know there is a different formula than MX-S, it will be more similar to MX-P/EL-P I heard. My buddy has Sigma 2 euro both sides. (on intencity nct v, all wood) He was going LP on one side and I was going to recomend he swap to Evolution EL-P on fh(the rubber closest to Sigma 2 euro in the evolution series I presume, based on ttdb info)
How do you think it compares to Sigma 2 euro (xiom)? (if you have used it)
The alternative was waiting for EL-S as I think FX-P is too soft for him. Opinions?

Sorry, I have no experience with Sigma Euro. BUT EL-S will have considerably less catapult than EL-P, and I think Sigma Europe has more catapult than Sigma Pro which I have tried, so better stick with EL-P.

Not sure, in some XIOM series Europe is nearly the softest, if that applies for Sigma FX-P might be an alternative.

Luis Nasche
06-08-2016, 04:50 AM
Luis, good luck with EL-P, I never liked it at all, feel was wrong. Loved FX-P and MX-P though. Hope you like it more than I did.

Thanks Der_Echte.

It's working just fine on my Viscaria.

I really don't understand why most guys recommend a softer rubber for the BH because with me it's really the opposite, I have a tough time with softer rubbers on my BH, but I can play with them on my FH.

I may change it to MX-P in the future just because I like it's harder touch a bit better and it has more power away from the table, but I enjoy my time with EL-P and I found it even better than MX-P without boost flat hitting the ball and also easier to get good spin and high arc brush looping.

FX-P may be out of question for me because I think EL-P is a bit softer than I'd prefer.

I'm settling down with M1 BH (you can see I don't like soft rubbers there) and MX-P FH on most blades, but I'm going o use this EL-P, a Rakza 7 and a Rasant Powergrip I have on other blade until they die because I found they all great rubbers, I just like M1/MX-P a bit better.