ITTF TrickShot Showdown: Josep Anton Velazquez

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 4, 2014

Hi everyone,

Hi! I would like to share with all the TT community my new submission for ITTF Trickshot Showdown. In this trick we try to do something new, never seen before in table tennis, we play twice around the net by the same side of the table!

My partner in the video is Galia Dvorak a well known spanish TT player.

About the trick just say that is more difficult than it seems to be, cause the error margin is almost zero since the first ball bounce have to take place just in the white line (almost in the edge). Furthermore, this is a must to apply to the ball as much spin as possible to open the angle in order to make the second shot possible. The 2nd shot technical complexity is also huge, so the available angle is almost zero, the ball bounce is very low and the ball is fully charged of spin in the opposite direction making this ball very difficult to control.

I hope all of you enjoy this entry!

I also want to share my first entry for the contest:

It will be a pleasure to answer any question related

Regards

Dan · Sep 5, 2014

Hey Josep love your trick shots! Me and @Tom didnt get round to doing one this year, the two of us have been to busy and Tom has been training in China.

One question, how long did it take to successfully pull off your trick shot?

Amayzde · Sep 5, 2014

Yeah, I wonder how many tried the first one took to do succesfull its so complex. You have to do the serve with right ammount of speed and spin and then you have to wait for the ball to get to the other side and then you have to serve through a hole and hit the ball thats rolling on the other side and you cant see anything! Surely the winner.

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 6, 2014

Dan said:
Hey Josep love your trick shots! Me and @Tom didnt get round to doing one this year, the two of us have been to busy and Tom has been training in China.

One question, how long did it take to successfully pull off your trick shot?

WOW! Training in China! This sounds really good.

Yes, do a elaborate TrickShot takes a lot of time, not only filming, get the idea and elaborate as much as you can to get something espectacular and well presented. Doing the setup if you use some props... Maybe next year you can participate again, I hope so!

About the time question, the first took about 1:30h (more or less 200 attempts) and the second between 1:15-1:30h, we don't know well cause we didn't watched the clock, but one of the cameras was currentless and the battery cant work for more than one and a half hour. I'll explain it a little more bellow.

Amayzde said:
Yeah, I wonder how many tried the first one took to do succesfull its so complex. You have to do the serve with right ammount of speed and spin and then you have to wait for the ball to get to the other side and then you have to serve through a hole and hit the ball thats rolling on the other side and you cant see anything! Surely the winner.

Yes, as you say the complexity is really huge. The two services are really difficult, execute both in a row is really hard, but have to synchronize the second ball with the first even when you can see the ball it's really hard. You have to trace the ball only with the initial speed and the sound.

Obviously there is a component of luck. And I have to recognize that I expected this trick to take me more time that 1:30h, the trick of last year for example took me about 3h and this year trick is really more difficult, but as a friend of mine tell me "You could have achieved it at the first try, always it's possible"

About the second trick maybe seem not that hard but trust me in this, is as difficult as the first one. There is no margin of error and both balls are very difficult. After we had filmed as you can see here, I showed the result some "beta-testers" friends and I realized that TT friends really like it, but non players friends wasn't very impressed. So we decide to improve the trick, I had some really good ideas to make it more espectacular, so I told the ideas to Galia and she was enthusiastic with this and we decided to try it again but the second day we didn't achieved.

We wanted to give us one more chance and program a third "session" but she trains a lot and had and injury two days before, furthermore the next week she had the Czech Open so we coudnt try it again... really sad about this, but the result is very good anyway (yes, I'm a perfeccionist hehe)

Hope you enjoy the details

mahomedy13 · Sep 6, 2014

lovely work!

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 7, 2014

Thanks mahomedy13!

Amayzde said:
Yeah, I wonder how many tried the first one took to do succesfull its so complex. You have to do the serve with right ammount of speed and spin and then you have to wait for the ball to get to the other side and then you have to serve through a hole and hit the ball thats rolling on the other side and you cant see anything! Surely the winner.

Quiz: which service do you think is most difficult, the first or the second one?

There is different opinions about but for me one it's clearly more difficult.

elrigo99 · Sep 8, 2014

Josep Antón Velázquez said:
Quiz: which service do you think is most difficult, the first or the second one?

There is different opinions about but for me one it's clearly more difficult.

I'd say the second one. Not technically but because you have to time it right to get the ball. Also the pressure raises once you know you got the first service right.

TTFrenzy · Sep 8, 2014

Josep Antón Velázquez said:
Thanks mahomedy13!

Quiz: which service do you think is most difficult, the first or the second one?

There is different opinions about but for me one it's clearly more difficult.

Definetely the 2nd one, I dont see there is any chance that you execute this serve easier, than the 1st one. 1st serve needs 5 mins practice maximum for an intermediate player to master, plus the whole is larger than the one in the 2nd serve

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 8, 2014

elrigo99 said:
I'd say the second one. Not technically but because you have to time it right to get the ball. Also the pressure raises once you know you got the first service right.

Sorry! I mean what service is the most difficult "if you take it alone", only the first or only the second, not in a row. Obviously, if you think in all the secuence, as you say in the second one you have more preassure and less attempts.

I'll come back with my answer but I let you answer before again ;-)

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 9, 2014

TTFrenzy said:
Definetely the 2nd one, I dont see there is any chance that you execute this serve easier, than the 1st one. 1st serve needs 5 mins practice maximum for an intermediate player to master, plus the whole is larger than the one in the 2nd serve

Yes, you're right!

The first one it's not easy in the way that you can make a 100%, when you train for 5 minutes you can pass easily the hole but there is some difficult for achieve the "L" trajectory without the ball returns or miss the table before turn to the right side of it. But, it's sure that all players would have a better % of success in this service if we take both services alone.

The second one is clearly much difficult cause the hole it's not in straight line and the service have to make a curve in the air. The first bounce must be near the corner (you can see it very well in the upper replay) and the service must have the correct height and direction, furthermore a heavy sidespin to make that curve.

If you add to this that you have less opportunities and you have to synchronize the second service even when you cant see the first ball, the second service have a huge difficulty.

Coriously a lot of people ask how I could make the first service, I supose that they never tryed to do a service like this, maybe because this have no sense in real game. Also it's possible that they don't notice that the second service hole is not in straight line.

Pongfinity · Sep 10, 2014

Great tricks again Josep

This second trick certainly looks easier than it truly is. When you think about it it's very difficult to make 2 around the nets from the same side. People doesn't always think so much what really happens in the trick, most just wants to see some cool new stuff. For example I'm sure that only very few players could make this double side change from same side. People just doesn't understand what's the difficulty in the trick. But I do at least

Great job again man, may the best trick win

Tony's Table Tennis · Sep 10, 2014

EditingSports said:
Great tricks again Josep

This second trick certainly looks easier than it truly is. When you think about it it's very difficult to make 2 around the nets from the same side. People doesn't always think so much what really happens in the trick, most just wants to see some cool new stuff. For example I'm sure that only very few players could make this double side change from same side. People just doesn't understand what's the difficulty in the trick. But I do at least Great job again man, may the best trick win

Yeah, and this is where I feel the value of the trickshot competition is not correct or fair.

The best or fairest should be like Idols where you have a panel of judges to judge everyone.

To get some random users to judge, vote etc (or what ever 2014 rules are - I don't actually know) will be silly. As some people will think Josep one is easy and go and vote for some others that looks "nicer" but more easy to do.

I have a feeling, in another few more years, this trickshot competition will almost be like a circus.
Player will need to stand on a monowheel, and do some clown stuff and execute the shot, and jump (with a trampoline) to the other side, while doing a somersault in the air and still hit the ball back. Its going to get more and more interesting and difficult lol

Pongfinity · Sep 10, 2014

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Yeah, and this is where I feel the value of the trickshot competition is not correct or fair.

The best or fairest should be like Idols where you have a panel of judges to judge everyone.

To get some random users to judge, vote etc (or what ever 2014 rules are - I don't actually know) will be silly. As some people will think Josep one is easy and go and vote for some others that looks "nicer" but more easy to do.

Exactly Tony. That is the reason why I was also thinking until the very end whether or not to participate. The panel of judges would be the best way to make this competition fair for all. But on the other hand I understand that this is the way that ittf can afford to offer those prizes... I'm though thinking the same way as you, it should be a totally fair for all competition with "experts" choosing the best tricks, that would make more people to participate the competition too.

Tony's Table Tennis · Sep 10, 2014

EditingSports said:
Exactly Tony. That is the reason why I was also thinking until the very end whether or not to participate. The panel of judges would be the best way to make this competition fair for all. But on the other hand I understand that this is the way that ittf can afford to offer those prizes... I'm though thinking the same way as you, it should be a totally fair for all competition with "experts" choosing the best tricks, that would make more people to participate the competition too.

Yeah, its a business thing for ITTF.
More views, likes = more money from Youtube.
Can't blame them.
Hundreds of videos and thousands of people actively promoting ITTF youtube chanel.
I'm sure the prize fee is bargain

Did you do one at the end?
I didn't even check on ITTF youtube channel on whats happening.
All I know is that ITTF also took a Youku video of CNT trickshot and put on they channel.

If ITTF filmed that video, why did it go onto Youku, and why did the ITTF youtube video has Youku logos lol.

Pongfinity · Sep 10, 2014

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Yeah, its a business thing for ITTF.
More views, likes = more money from Youtube.
Can't blame them.
Hundreds of videos and thousands of people actively promoting ITTF youtube chanel.
I'm sure the prize fee is bargain

Did you do one at the end?
I didn't even check on ITTF youtube channel on whats happening.
All I know is that ITTF also took a Youku video of CNT trickshot and put on they channel.

If ITTF filmed that video, why did it go onto Youku, and why did the ITTF youtube video has Youku logos lol.

Yep, as you said; it's cheap advertising and promotion to their channel and with the views they probably get it all back. But can't blame them, they are giving people the chance to win those great prizes which is a great thing.
I don't really know about that CNT video, when I saw it the first time I also thought that who had recorded it and so on had the right for it but I'm not sure about that. I guess it's ok though since the video hasn't been removed.

Yeah man, we eventually also participated in the competition. I think we got a quite good one too

at least a really hard one. Just posted a thread about it too

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 11, 2014

EditingSports said:
Great tricks again Josep

This second trick certainly looks easier than it truly is. When you think about it it's very difficult to make 2 around the nets from the same side. People doesn't always think so much what really happens in the trick, most just wants to see some cool new stuff. For example I'm sure that only very few players could make this double side change from same side. People just doesn't understand what's the difficulty in the trick. But I do at least Great job again man, may the best trick win

Hi Miikka or Emil (Idon't know exactly who I'm talking hehe)

Thanks for your comment, I'm totally agree, this second trick with two around the net shots it's more for TT fans

And I'm very glad that you see how difficult it is!

Non table tennis players cant see anything especial in this. Some are impressed by the heavy sidespin and the curve off the shots but they don't see the "epic".

About the TT players, talking with people I realized that normally it depends on the level of the player. We have feedbacks of some proffesional players and they were very impressed, for the difficulty and for the idea. The beginer players don't see so much difficulty, I think it's because two facts: (1) they have less experience, probably they don't try this shots very often and don't have their own criteria, (2) what you said before "People doesn't always think so much what really happens in the trick". Some people say me that a right-hander and a left-hander can do this with two forehand topspins with sidespin (for me this is clearly impossible with the classical sidespin, the spin rolling in the direction of the table).

In the other hand only the TT players know how special is this trick (from a philosophical point of view LOL), all of us are used to see around the net shots but allways using the spin to help the ball go to the table, and this way it's impossible to play again by the side of the net. Using the oposite spin it's possible to play again by the side but it have really a huge difficult. The first ball it's very difficult and must be perfect. In the second you have a small angle, low bounce and the ball it's charged of spin, if you add that don't have so many attemps with this second shot it makes this ball also very difficult.

Anyway I encourage players to try it by them self to get his own criteria

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 11, 2014

Tony's Table Tennis said:
Yeah, and this is where I feel the value of the trickshot competition is not correct or fair.

The best or fairest should be like Idols where you have a panel of judges to judge everyone.

To get some random users to judge, vote etc (or what ever 2014 rules are - I don't actually know) will be silly. As some people will think Josep one is easy and go and vote for some others that looks "nicer" but more easy to do.

The phases of the contest are:

1- Promoting a video: The 5 most viewed videos get to the final.

2- Popular voting: The table tennis people vote for their favourite trick in facebook ITTF page. This year this will count the 60%.

3- Expert panel from ITTF voting: The judges of ITTF have the another 40% of the final decision.

From my point of view the point 1 is the most controversial. I don't know exactly how it works but I think the monetization in youtube is, more or less, 1K views = 1€, so I don't think that they get back the prizes with the views of the contest.

I think that for ITTF, and from their point of view it seems to me a great idea, this is a cheap way of promoting our sport in the web and media.

When the contest begun last year, I thought it was not fair that the most viewed videos pass to the final. The most viewed don't have to be the best. There is something right with this but it's no 100% that way. If the video is not good you'll never get the views, if your video is very impressive then it's easier to get viral.

Anyway to promote a video takes effort, so we are working for ITTF to promote table tennis.

This two years my videos have became very popular in catalonia and also in spain. They have appeared in regional and national TV's, and in the web's of the most important daily of the country, some radios have talked about my trick and the video have became a little viral in the social networks. I really have arrived to millions of people with TV but only a little bit of this are reflecting in youtube views.

From that point of view I think this contest it's "cheap" for ITTF. And I hope that in the future, more like me, will achieve to call the interest of the media in their countries. A good trick are interesting for all the people, it's spectacular, short and easy to understand, you don't need to know about table tennis to enjoy it. So it's a good way to get interest of the media.

So, in my opinion, a good trick for winning the contest should be:

- Spectacular, awesome... for the main audience.
- well presented... for the media and the main audience.
- Creative and difficult... for the table tennis audience.

Sorry about the extension of my trickshot thoughts

Pongfinity · Sep 11, 2014

Josep Antón Velázquez said:
The phases of the contest are:

1- Promoting a video: The 5 most viewed videos get to the final.

2- Popular voting: The table tennis people vote for their favourite trick in facebook ITTF page. This year this will count the 60%.

3- Expert panel from ITTF voting: The judges of ITTF have the another 40% of the final decision.

From my point of view the point 1 is the most controversial. I don't know exactly how it works but I think the monetization in youtube is, more or less, 1K views = 1€, so I don't think that they get back the prizes with the views of the contest.

I think that for ITTF, and from their point of view it seems to me a great idea, this is a cheap way of promoting our sport in the web and media.

When the contest begun last year, I thought it was not fair that the most viewed videos pass to the final. The most viewed don't have to be the best. There is something right with this but it's no 100% that way. If the video is not good you'll never get the views, if your video is very impressive then it's easier to get viral.

Anyway to promote a video takes effort, so we are working for ITTF to promote table tennis.

This two years my videos have became very popular in catalonia and also in spain. They have appeared in regional and national TV's, and in the web's of the most important daily of the country, some radios have talked about my trick and the video have became a little viral in the social networks. I really have arrived to millions of people with TV but only a little bit of this are reflecting in youtube views.

From that point of view I think this contest it's "cheap" for ITTF. And I hope that in the future, more like me, will achieve to call the interest of the media in their countries. A good trick are interesting for all the people, it's spectacular, short and easy to understand, you don't need to know about table tennis to enjoy it. So it's a good way to get interest of the media.

So, in my opinion, a good trick for winning the contest should be:

- Spectacular, awesome... for the main audience.
- well presented... for the media and the main audience.
- Creative and difficult... for the table tennis audience.

Sorry about the extension of my trickshot thoughts

Yeah, it has been really spectacular how well you have been able to promote the sport in Spain with these tricks. We have done the same things with our full trick videos but haven't really tried to contact the Finnish media about this competition. Finnish newspapers never really writes anything about tt so it's very hard for countries like Finland. I know how difficult it is to contact them in the beginning and it's quite amazing how well your videos have spread in your country. I know how much work it takes for you also to get them there (at least in the beginning).

The TSS has at the moment got 120K views and I think it's about 2e/1K views normally, but the more views the video gets the higher ad revenue is also. But the videos are also a continuing thing that gives money a long time (if it just gets views). Regarding that the TSS videos last year had like 1-2M views totally + The world's best trick shots montage video like 500K views they made A LOT with that I can tell for sure. I guess that's why they raised the prizes so much this year. But yeah, it's good promotion for the sport for sure.

But Josep we should surely make some kind of video together after the competition. We have both succeeded in the same thing (tricks) and got the national media to share our videos and promote the sport. A great video of us together could easily go viral and would be fun to do I think

elrigo99 · Sep 11, 2014

A friend of mine told me that he receives approximately 6€ every 1K views, si I guess they have paid back everything with this contest.

Josep Antón Velázquez · Sep 11, 2014

EditingSports said:
But Josep we should surely make some kind of video together after the competition. We have both succeeded in the same thing (tricks) and got the national media to share our videos and promote the sport. A great video of us together could easily go viral and would be fun to do I think

Yeah!!! For sure it will be great!

If you ever visit Barcelona please let me know and we can meet and do some training and trickshot filming! :-D If I ever go to Finland I'll tell you!

EditingSports said:
The TSS has at the moment got 120K views and I think it's about 2e/1K views normally, but the more views the video gets the higher ad revenue is also. But the videos are also a continuing thing that gives money a long time (if it just gets views). Regarding that the TSS videos last year had like 1-2M views totally + The world's best trick shots montage video like 500K views they made A LOT with that I can tell for sure. I guess that's why they raised the prizes so much this year. But yeah, it's good promotion for the sport for sure.

You're right, I did not think that way!

ITTF TrickShot Showdown: Josep Anton Velazquez

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