Review of a "Der_Echte Special"

agold... Rolling into the club like a BOSS hehe.

I shoulda also left him an 896 I modified.

If you see me hit with an Instikt+, an 896 or whatever, you will understand that there is enough pace on BH wing, I am fast there, but I am with you, the Der_Echte specials are not blazing fast setups, just controllable bats. I have no problem generating spin or keeping it on the table with either. I prefer middle of the road OFF speed class, like the TBS. Usually, I have an expensive Nexy bat for this, but when they are on the DL, I break out the Der_Echte specials and live with those, quite well. I used an 896 with Euro Sigma II and H3 Neo (Both 2-3 yr old sheets) and did OK.

To minimize costs, I recycle the rubber to such a bat, so even if the original price of Aurus is $35 from Nexy, It is a used rubber and no additional cost involved. I really only paid for the blade and that didn't really set me back.

haha, Carl is dressed in black again.

Hehe agold, ask Carl or PingPongHolic, with such a bat, I was BH flicking, BH looping, and BH killing quite easily with the Der_Echte Special. Although I can manage very well on BH wing using just about any bat and inverted rubber, These All+ to OFF wood bats do just alright for me on BH wing on all of my different kinds of BH shots. I heavy topspin the most, which this blade is easy to perform with, but I also BH flick, BH fast loop, BH hit, BH smash, BH Loopdrive, BH cut, and BH flat hit. I middle of the road blade and rubber do just OK for that task.

agold said:

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That is the blade and I am passing it off to agold.

It is interesting, Der_Echte, you had me hit with a whole bunch of blades. They all felt good. Most of them were 896 blades with different rubber setups that you had modified in different ways: nails in the handle etc. All the 896s felt better than the Instinct, in my opinion. The Instinct setup feels decent. But the 896 blades actually felt as good to me as pretty much any blade money can buy. That 896 blades is pretty good. I do have two of them, and I do like them. But the ones you doctored felt better than one that has not been doctored.

All that being said, I felt the Instinct was decent. I did not feel it was too slow. I felt it was actually a pretty good speed. I felt it did not have that good a dwell time, but I know how to loop and was able to get plenty of spin with either the Aurus or the 2008XP rubbers. And it had a high pitched ping sound and a hard feel that I did not love. And I really felt that all the 896 setups you had me try had more than enough speed, lots of dwell time and good feeling. The 896 setups were on par with setups that would cost $150.00+.

That is what I have to say on the subject. Der_Ecthe is a blade doctor.

Maybe I doctor blades (when I get cracks) (Ironically, never cracked an 896) but I think more than anything Der_Echte MUTATES hiz blades.

I have been a Stiga blade hater for YEARS (earthquake vibration) AND a hater of light blades and when I tried out one of Carl's 82 gram Stiga (it was classic Allround I think) haha, that thing was SWEET for what macho players like to do - reloop the ball. Tons of confidence in loop to loop rallies, great feel. Plus this baby was LIGHT, and we all know I do not favor light blades.

Carl, what blade waz that you had me try? (not the ZLF machine) Maybe I get one from Nexy, they sell a ton of Stiga.

Before my next trip to NYC (now that I discover I know more people there!) I think I will mutate another with nails and extree glue to up it another 10-15 grams. Might make for some neeto pics and a cool thread. Maybe we call it the 896 Mutant thread or I field suggestions.

Meeting Carl twice was cool, both at the Korean club where we all let loose a lot of TT fun and at SPiN where I never visited and Carl looked more than he belonged. Gotta say it, Carl can make rallies or pressure attacking topspin off the bounce in rallies where I simply do not have the inclination, timing, touch or skillz yet.

I done made a modified Der_Echte special and the thread is up. I should be able to drop it off in NYC if I ever make it there again for members to pass around for forum fun.

Der_Echte said:

I done made a modified Der_Echte special and the thread is up. I should be able to drop it off in NYC if I ever make it there again for members to pass around for forum fun.

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Hahaha. You are the man. It will be fun to hang with you again. I really liked the way you got so many people involved, playing and having fun, especially at the Korean club.

The blade I had you try was a Stiga Allround Evolution. Part of why it felt good is that it pairs really well with those Xiom rubbers. I had Xiom Omega IV Pro and Europe on it. But Vega would be fine as well. Something about the sponge goes really well with that blade. But I think XP2008 would pair really well with it too. Aurus, you might feel more of the vibrations, but XP2008 I think would go well with that blade. Those rubbers are also pretty heavy so, even though the blade is 83 grams, with the rubber, it has a decent amount of weight behind it.

If we had more time there, we would have played round robin to see who pays for the food and beerz. You never saw real competition and and everyone letting loose until you see a RR scrum to determine who pays for the food and drink. I would have started a brush war there if I had more time on my hands that night if I didn't have to make a long drive to a less expensive motel. I met a FB friend at the tourney who will likely me crash on his living room floor and you will prolly meet him at the Korean club, he is an LP defender.

That is a cheap backhand rubber! How far of is it in comparison to main stream rubbers do you think?

TTHopeful said:

That is a cheap backhand rubber! How far of is it in comparison to main stream rubbers do you think?

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It is actually pretty decent. Der_Echte's backhand is really good, has a lot of spin, and if you give him backspin anywhere near his backhand, short, long, anywhere, he will give you back a ball with a lot of topspin on it. When I have hit with that rubber, it played pretty decently. I would be able to use it and be fine. Is it as good as Tenergy, not quite. But it is good enough.

UpSideDownCarl said:

It is actually pretty decent. Der_Echte's backhand is really good, has a lot of spin, and if you give him backspin anywhere near his backhand, short, long, anywhere, he will give you back a ball with a lot of topspin on it. When I have hit with that rubber, it played pretty decently. I would be able to use it and be fine. Is it as good as Tenergy, not quite. But it is good enough.

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Thanks for the compliment Carl. I really DO love it when I get a slow underspin anywhere to my BH, that really shines such a ball, an invitation to go on offense. I can hit it heavy, fast, flat, or fast & heavy. I take whatever they give me on that wing and say THANKS. I can use just about any inverted rubber there, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on a BH rubber. $7 or $8 USD XP 2008 is an excellent control rubber that simply lasts and I can do everything with it I do on BH wing, so XP 2008 has been my primary BH rubber for a few years now. I know what I will get from it and I use it to test all my blades.

Forum members gotta understand how differently Carl and I employ our BH shots. Carl can do the same BH shots I do, the heavy spin vs underspin, the fast loop vs underspin, maybe the BH flip, but where Carl really shines is standing close to the table and taking a topspin off the bounce BH in a fast rally. That kind of shot requires you to get EVERYTHING right and be very fundamentally sound. Carl gets that and does that well. He stands close to the table and doesn't just get teh bat to the ball and bump it back, he goes through the ball half power and controls it well to make his own quick off the bounce counter topsin he can place where and how he wants.

That is one skill I never got to train much. I can stand at teh table and punch block on BH wing very fast and that is also an effective shot, but it is a different shot and not as versitile as what Carl does in that situation. Unless the ball is high, I either BH drive, BH block, or BH punch. I can hang well in those bang bang fast BH counter exchanges, but Carl can too and PLUS, he can change the spin and timing with near perfect control.

That is a different kind of BH that requires really good everything and your equipment cannot be recreational grade, it has gotta be big boy stuff and Carl can make that kind of shot on BH with XP 2008. There is nothing I cannot do on BH vs an underspin ball, short or long with XP 2008, I can open heavy or fast. Carl can warp time and possibly space with XP 2008. That is enough testimony that XP 2008 is fit for a player who values control on BH with the possibility to also play fast and furious.

The forum should understand by now Carl can back up what he says about equipment and how it affects what you do, positive or negative, as well as the TT fundamentals involved. If anyone got a beef with Carl, they get through agold first, street tough NYC lad haha. Crap, you give agold another 15 years and I won't wanna arm wrestle him. Gator wrestle him maybe, but not arm wrestle.

We both prefer a different modern rubber for FH wing, yet Carl is good enough to make XP 2008 work for hiz FH as well, Der_Echte is a little more picky.

I wouldn't rate XP 2008 up in T05 zone for abilities as T05 is one amazing rubber still, but you can get the job done on BH wing using it and deliver the goods for a fraction of the cost and it literally lasts me 5 times longer.

Maybe we ought to call Carl a TT topspin rally Merchant.

Forums like TTD are great to facilitate these kind of meetups. I would have had to be a spymaster of a cold war era department to even have HALF of the know-how and contacts get share on the forums.

Der_Echte,
You should put on a $25 Yinhe Big Dipper on the FH. Save the $20 for another setup
This will also make your bat into the sub $50 mark

Der_Echte said:

......but where Carl really shines is standing close to the table and taking a topspin off the bounce BH in a fast rally. That kind of shot requires you to get EVERYTHING right and be very fundamentally sound. Carl gets that and does that well. He stands close to the table and doesn't just get teh bat to the ball and bump it back, he goes through the ball half power and controls it well to make his own quick off the bounce counter topsin he can place where and how he wants.

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I thought that was the only way to play table tennis. Have I been doing something wrong ??

Good try JHB, but I won't take the bait.

I give Carl credit and it is justified. He is better at two kinds of BH shots than I am by a clear margin. And I consider myself pretty damn serviceable on BH wing. Anyone who wants to have a crack at me and my BH can have at it anytime and bring the cameras, the beers, the drinking water or both. Guarantee it will be a blast whether or not I get blasted. (in TT, not the beerz, since I will likely drive, but if you got a driver, bring a box.)

Tony's Table Tennis said:

Der_Echte,
You should put on a $25 Yinhe Big Dipper on the FH. Save the $20 for another setup
This will also make your bat into the sub $50 mark

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I rarely slap on a new FH rubber on the Der_Echte specials, always recycle the Fh rubber, oftern also the BH rubber too.

If Dipper plays anything like Aurus or Evo series, I just might.

@Carl, hey man, I just ordered me an Allround Evolution in Master FL handle with tax and shipping, it was right under $50 USD, prolly have it by next Tuesday.

Sounds like another thread in the making!

I also have a Nexy Kanaph on the way prolly get here around that time too.

I don't know if I have enough used FH rubbers laying aorund. I will prolly slap on the Allround Evolution the Evo FX-P I have on my broken Tibhar Inca and add a new sheet of XP 2008. I don't want to break out my last new sheet of FX-P for the Nexy Kanaph, but I will prolly take off the black sheet of FX-P I have on one of my modified Der_Echte Specials I had you hit with (other side had EL-P) and slap some XP 2008 on to replace it and call it a day.

Despite the light weight of the blade, Carl's Allround Evolution was a BEAST in the counter topsins and opening topspins. I suspect that both the flex of the blade, along with the springiness top end of his selected medium soft sponged rubbers really gave the ball a "kick" and a lot of "bite" on fast swings. That is exactly the performance I like on my OFF class setups (and on my Der_Echte Specials). I will try out the bat without grip tape since the handle is supposed to be a bit larger than normal, but I'll have soem handy anywayz.

I am really looking forward to testing this bat out. Also the Kanaph, which will likely become my next tourney bat. EDIT: Man I really can't type without an error to save my life.

I have been on record as being opposed to the pundits' hard dictim that one MUST use a ALL+ish or so 5 ply wood blade and medium rubbers, usually thinish sponged. I am about performance and when I discovered that Rasat on the right ALL+ blade was a beast in hte shots that mattered while still losing nothing in my other shots, I changed my mind and realized that even an ALL+ pundit's special blade with the right rubbers would be an offensive powerhouse in its own right. I have seen this with the stock, non-modified, and especially with the modified 896 setups I use.

It is great to be able to try something out in person, lots of stuff if possible. Forums like TTD really get us to interact and think / experience.

SIR Carl, how about the XP 2008 on Clipper...

i had been a tournament manager on TT in our campus just now...just finished with the championship games on both men and women...aaahhh so tiring but i enjoyed it...i had time to hit with the players and found my set up pretty decent...

i can use the XP on both FH and BH...found no vibrations but has a lot of dwell time...had a problem on BH blocks though, ball goes out of bounds but i think its my bat angle...FH topspin, aahh maybe i need to release more energy...i need to have more hitting with them as i also prepare for the faculty and staff olympics this coming october...

well, i'm also looking forward to try the der_echte specials maybe soon...anyways, i'm loving the blade that you've inspired me to have and der_echte's XP 2008 rubber...thanks to both of you...

Bishop Rasta 27 said:

SIR Carl, how about the XP 2008 on Clipper...

i had been a tournament manager on TT in our campus just now...just finished with the championship games on both men and women...aaahhh so tiring but i enjoyed it...i had time to hit with the players and found my set up pretty decent...

i can use the XP on both FH and BH...found no vibrations but has a lot of dwell time...had a problem on BH blocks though, ball goes out of bounds but i think its my bat angle...FH topspin, aahh maybe i need to release more energy...i need to have more hitting with them as i also prepare for the faculty and staff olympics this coming october...

well, i'm also looking forward to try the der_echte specials maybe soon...anyways, i'm loving the blade that you've inspired me to have and der_echte's XP 2008 rubber...thanks to both of you...

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The important things here is that you are using it and it works for you. If that is the case, if you like it, keep using it. It is pretty good rubber, and for the price it is great.

Der_Echte said:

@Carl, hey man, I just ordered me an Allround Evolution in Master FL handle with tax and shipping, it was right under $50 USD, prolly have it by next Tuesday.

Sounds like another thread in the making!

I also have a Nexy Kanaph on the way prolly get here around that time too.

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It will be fun to hear how you like it. I got my Allround Evolution for $35.00. I think the price on that blade fluctuates. Like, right now, on Paddle Palace it is listed at $40.95, but I know I got it for $5.00 less than that. It is a good solid blade. The name is a bit misleading. It is an Off- speed blade. I know you don't like vibrations. I actually really like a certain amount of vibration and how that adds to the ability to feel the ball.

It will also be fun to hear about the Nexy Kanaph. Next time you are in these parts, we will do it all again.

Der_Echte said:

but where Carl really shines is standing close to the table and taking a topspin off the bounce BH in a fast rally. That kind of shot requires you to get EVERYTHING right and be very fundamentally sound. Carl gets that and does that well. He stands close to the table and doesn't just get teh bat to the ball and bump it back, he goes through the ball half power and controls it well to make his own quick off the bounce counter topsin he can place where and how he wants.

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JHB said:

I thought that was the only way to play table tennis. Have I been doing something wrong ??

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What Der_Echte is talking about is a shot I do when someone gives a high arc super spinny loop. If someone gives me one of those, I take it right off the bounce, maybe 2, 3 inches above the table, and I counter loop from there. I just let the ball jump up into my racket and accelerate over the top of it with my racket completely parallel to the ground. What happens is, all that spin that was on that powerful, spinny loop gets transferred into my shot as spin and speed. It is not hard work. You don't have to put much effort at all into it. You just need perfect timing so that, as the ball is just the right hight for you to brush over the top of it, you accelerate your bat. I can do it with the forehand too. But it is much harder to go down the line so with the forehand I will mostly go crosscourt. With the backhand, I can put that shot where I want.

Part of why I can do that shot is that I train with a guy who is lefty and when he is stressed in a rally, by default, he hits a high spinny loop at my switching point to give himself a little extra time. So I have had to learn how to step over and cover it because if you are not directly over the top of it, the ball has too much spin and won't go on the table. And if I wait for it to rise, he will have much more time to set. So, what I do with it is just catch it right after the bounce.

But, while Der_Echte likes that shot of mine, he has more than a few good tricks up his sleeve and I would say he is a good level or two higher than me at game skills and the important parts of playing like serve and receive. I would trade that specialized backhand counter loop that he brought up for his overall game any day. hahahaha.

And PingPongHolic was no slouch either.

UpSideDownCarl said:

It will be fun to hear how you like it. I got my Allround Evolution for $35.00. I think the price on that blade fluctuates. Like, right now, on Paddle Palace it is listed at $40.95, but I know I got it for $5.00 less than that. It is a good solid blade. The name is a bit misleading. It is an Off- speed blade. I know you don't like vibrations. I actually really like a certain amount of vibration and how that adds to the ability to feel the ball.

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That is what I paid, but tax and shipping bumped up the deal to about $50 USD.

I was expecting the overall speed to be ALL+, but big deal. The right rubber on the right ALL+ blade can play OFF to low OFF+ on a certain shot, like Rasant on a flexy ALL+ is WAY faster than you would credit. Also, trying to peg down an overall speed is tricky and misleading. There are many shot situations and many blades play differently in these different shot situations and that makes nailing down a blade's speed to such and such misleading. The feel, rebound time, flex, feedback, solidness, ability to hit what you are trying are much more important things. Sometimes, it is hard to quantify them, but an opinion of someone experienced goes a long way.

That is why I like how TTD reviews equipment, they are much more centered upon those kind of things than other reviewers.

As for vibration, I value an amount and type of feedback, but overwhelming STRONG EARTHQUAKE kind of shaking I got from the Offensive Classic really turned me into a Stiga hater. Carl's blade (Allround Evolution) wasn't like that so it is good to try other players' setups when you can. There is nothing that replaces testing it yourself. It is nice to read about it, but one simply needs to also hit with it.

Matching the right rubbers will be an important task. I think a medium soft sponge like Carl had on it would be great so I think I will shift a sheet of Evolution FX-P to the FH side and slap on a new sheet of XP 2008 on BH and see where it all goes.