PDA

View Full Version : Snake Serve by Brett Clarke



ttEDGE - William
10-05-2014, 11:41 AM
Guys I've been aced by this serve before (I'm talking clean air ace) so I'd like to get your thoughts. I'd be very keen to see you upload your own Snake Serve on youtube, put "Snake Serve" in the title and post here for review.

Yes, Brett is crazy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o06btFlP48E

Tony's Table Tennis
10-05-2014, 12:00 PM
Please don't make a video on - Service Return - Snake Serve
Hehehehe

MegaZZ
10-05-2014, 12:38 PM
Guys I've been aced by this serve before (I'm talking clean air ace) so I'd like to get your thoughts. I'd be very keen to see you upload your own Snake Serve on youtube, put "Snake Serve" in the title and post here for review.

Yes, Brett is crazy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eXeL2fn3_0

That was one of the wackiest and funniest tt videos ever! Would love to meet the man in real life :)

raazzz
10-05-2014, 05:12 PM
Haha what a guy, I would also like to have a chat with him in real life.

ttmonster
10-06-2014, 04:38 PM
LOL !! He is funny as hell !!! I am a fan already !

Michal_Z
10-06-2014, 06:15 PM
All we need is to invite him to join our site in here ;-)
He would be a great income ;)

Brett Clarke
10-06-2014, 06:20 PM
All we need is to invite him to join our site in here ;-)
He would be a great income ;)

OK, I'm in...

rajd1234
10-06-2014, 06:44 PM
Awesome video Brett...absolutely hilaroius..[emoji13][emoji28]

Brett Clarke
10-06-2014, 10:19 PM
Awesome video Brett...absolutely hilaroius..[emoji13][emoji28]

Thanks rajd1234 and others who have posted here. I really appreciate all the comments and I'll be around if you want to discuss videos or whatever.

Cheers, Brett

TTTristan
10-07-2014, 12:03 AM
Awesome video!!! I'll try my hand at this serve.

Any advice for pengrip players?

Bishop Rasta 27
10-07-2014, 03:51 AM
OK, I'm in...
nice video man! how i would love a service return video to that serve but Tony requested not to hehehehe...got to learn snake serve first and find out how to return it...:)

UpSideDownCarl
10-07-2014, 05:15 AM
OK, I'm in...

Those serves are nasty. I also like the video on how to serve backspin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGfgXg668M

I actually just sent this to a friend who I have been trying to get to stop moving her elbow forward when she serves. I have held her arm in place, but I think she will get it with the visual that the Japanese Ninja Backspin Service Assistant provides, and the restriction of the arm movement that it ensures.

ttmonster
10-07-2014, 07:42 AM
I don't know @UpSideDownCarl , but just thought holding her arm might be more effective :p

Those serves are nasty. I also like the video on how to serve backspin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGfgXg668M

I actually just sent this to a friend who I have been trying to get to stop moving her elbow forward when she serves. I have held her arm in place, but I think she will get it with the visual that the Japanese Ninja Backspin Service Assistant provides, and the restriction of the arm movement that it ensures.

Brett Clarke
10-07-2014, 08:07 AM
Awesome video!!! I'll try my hand at this serve.

Any advice for pengrip players?

I'm no penhold expert, but it shouldn't be too different. At 2:30 in the video, I give a crude explanation regarding the contact and mechanics. Give it a try and, if you post the video, I'll comment for sure. Cheers, Brett

Sali
10-07-2014, 10:31 AM
Hey Brett very nice I like it a lot, bu to be honest the snake serve is quite different move from reverse at the beginning. Of course you finish both serves the same way, but the most important thing is how you touch the ball (most receivers are learnt to watch only time when touching the ball). So with a reverse serve you just move your arm from your body to the right, while in the snake serve you first move your arm to your stomach to change the spin and then to the right to cheat your opponent. Of course it is easy to see in slow motion, but in regular not that easy.

Brett Clarke
10-07-2014, 11:29 AM
Hey Brett very nice I like it a lot, bu to be honest the snake serve is quite different move from reverse at the beginning. Of course you finish both serves the same way, but the most important thing is how you touch the ball (most receivers are learnt to watch only time when touching the ball). So with a reverse serve you just move your arm from your body to the right, while in the snake serve you first move your arm to your stomach to change the spin and then to the right to cheat your opponent. Of course it is easy to see in slow motion, but in regular not that easy.

Hey Sali, Correct, if you slow it down or look closely, you'll see the inward wrist movement. As I explained in the video, the aim is to get the feeling of having your wrist coming in as your arm is going out or around. This is what creates the illusion. I have no doubt you can see differences in the 2 serves, because they are there for sure. Cheers, Brett

iammaru
10-07-2014, 11:56 AM
I love the videos. Great serves. Very funny and helpful tips.

Regarding the snake serve, I don't think it's very deceptive about spin, but since the arm movement is quite similar to the reverse serve, it will catch the opponent off guard and when he realize the spin, it would be too late. Even if it cannot help you win points directly, having 2 different serves with similar movements will affect the opponent's anticipation.

Thank you so much for sharing, Brett! Hope you will have more videos soon.

Sali
10-07-2014, 12:23 PM
I can also reccomend this serve. Minute 3:30. I use it a lot and it really helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldheZbxGWlQ

Brett Clarke
10-07-2014, 12:59 PM
Regarding the snake serve, I don't think it's very deceptive about spin, but since the arm movement is quite similar to the reverse serve, it will catch the opponent off guard and when he realize the spin, it would be too late. Even if it cannot help you win points directly, having 2 different serves with similar movements will affect the opponent's anticipation.


Hi iammaru, This is absolutely right. With the snake I do however try to catch the ball close to the top of the bat to get "kick" so they have less time to work out what happened. As you said though, it's all about the illusion and not so much the spin. Cheers, Brett

raazzz
10-07-2014, 04:55 PM
I can also reccomend this serve. Minute 3:30. I use it a lot and it really helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldheZbxGWlQ

Great post! Good advice.

Josep Antón Velázquez
10-08-2014, 12:35 AM
Great video Brett (and very funny :), I can't wait to try it in the next training season!

UpSideDownCarl
10-08-2014, 05:44 AM
I don't know @UpSideDownCarl , but just thought holding her arm might be more effective :p

Well, this video makes it very clear that the elbow is not supposed to move and the broom stick handle actually gives that visual really well. Besides, I am not going to hold someone's arm for 20, or 30, serves let alone the few hundred a day for a few weeks that are probably needed to feel where you really should be generating the spin from. The way she ends up with her right elbow near her left side is going to be hard to change. And that automatically means she can't be ready for what is coming back, her swing on the serve brings her completely out of position.

So, I like that how to backspin video. :)

ttmonster
10-08-2014, 07:14 AM
Thats what I figured, you don't want to hold her arm for too long :P . Just kidding , the video is awesome . What about teaching her the inside out service that Feng Tianwei does , may be she will learn to her right elbow stable that way ...

Well, this video makes it very clear that the elbow is not supposed to move and the broom stick handle actually gives that visual really well. Besides, I am not going to hold someone's arm for 20, or 30, serves let alone the few hundred a day for a few weeks that are probably needed to feel where you really should be generating the spin from. The way she ends up with her right elbow near her left side is going to be hard to change. And that automatically means she can't be ready for what is coming back, her swing on the serve brings her completely out of position.

So, I like that how to backspin video. :)

UpSideDownCarl
10-09-2014, 02:31 PM
Thats what I figured, you don't want to hold her arm for too long :P . Just kidding , the video is awesome . What about teaching her the inside out service that Feng Tianwei does , may be she will learn to her right elbow stable that way ...

I tried to teach her tomahawk, hook and shovel which are all really simple. She has to stand really far from the table to do those because she uses so much shoulder and the follow through is so exaggerated that she will hit the table and somehow she can't just go forward and keep the racket higher than the table, it always ends up lower than the table when she finishes the serve.

That broom handle might get her to stop using the arm. If she does it with one serve, she may figure it out. :)

ttmonster
10-10-2014, 02:58 AM
What happens when she tries to hit a normal forehand or backhand ? too much shoulder again , is it ? Here is an idea, if you try to get her to loop against heavy underspin so that she learns to use her body and not her shoulder. If she is using her shoulder for everything , she needs to first change that .

I tried to teach her tomahawk, hook and shovel which are all really simple. She has to stand really far from the table to do those because she uses so much shoulder and the follow through is so exaggerated that she will hit the table and somehow she can't just go forward and keep the racket higher than the table, it always ends up lower than the table when she finishes the serve.

That broom handle might get her to stop using the arm. If she does it with one serve, she may figure it out. :)

UpSideDownCarl
10-10-2014, 06:49 AM
What happens when she tries to hit a normal forehand or backhand ? too much shoulder again , is it ? Here is an idea, if you try to get her to loop against heavy underspin so that she learns to use her body and not her shoulder. If she is using her shoulder for everything , she needs to first change that .

Oh, her strokes need a lot of work. She plays shakehand but her backhand looks and acts like one of those traditional penhold punch-block backhands, but she has this weird hitch where her torso teapots over to the side as she is doing the shot. Her forehand, she has a 90 degree angle from her upper arm to her forearm when she backswings and that angle does not change at all so when she is done with the follow through her elbow joint has not changed angles at all. :)

I don't know which would be harder to fix, the forehand, the backhand or the serves. Haha. She still somehow plays not bad for a woman who is over 55 years old.

ttmonster
10-10-2014, 01:46 PM
LOL ! Now I get it :) Best of luck with the broom !
Oh, her strokes need a lot of work. She plays shakehand but her backhand looks and acts like one of those traditional penhold punch-block backhands, but she has this weird hitch where her torso teapots over to the side as she is doing the shot. Her forehand, she has a 90 degree angle from her upper arm to her forearm when she backswings and that angle does not change at all so when she is done with the follow through her elbow joint has not changed angles at all. :)

I don't know which would be harder to fix, the forehand, the backhand or the serves. Haha. She still somehow plays not bad for a woman who is over 55 years old.

UpSideDownCarl
10-10-2014, 01:53 PM
LOL ! Now I get it :) Best of luck with the broom !

By the way, somehow, with what she is doing, her forehand is pretty fast and powerful and she gets a great angle on it. And if I feed her light to medium backspin she will rip most of them. I won't say loop, because it is not quite that, but she powers it on the table with a low arc and a lot of pace. :) It is true, I am not sure she will change any of the habits. She tried to tie her elbow to her side for the forehand but.....

Actually it is funny, often, her backhand push has the same exact spin and speed as her backhand topspin. hahaha. It is murder on someone who does not know how to play short pips. Because, even though she is using smooth rubber (I did tell her she might do well with short pips) everything that comes off her backhand feels like it is coming off of short pips.

But, anyway, back to the subject. The backspin video shows something worth understanding about serving and the snake serve video shows a pretty cool deception. The sidespin is the same as a regular pendulum and the motion does really look like a reverse.

ttmonster
10-10-2014, 02:07 PM
ROFLAO , I am sure a lot of people would get crazy against those kind of junk balls

I still feel heavy backspin might have the solution only if she is ready to change. I know that playing against a chopper taught me the value of timing and legs and touch and I always feel very confident when I do a few loops of a quality heavy pushes off a short backspin serve. thats why I said what I said from personal experience.



By the way, somehow, with what she is doing, her forehand is pretty fast and powerful and she gets a great angle on it. And if I feed her light to medium backspin she will rip most of them. I won't say loop, because it is not quite that, but she powers it on the table with a low arc and a lot of pace. :) It is true, I am not sure she will change any of the habits. She tried to tie her elbow to her side for the forehand but.....

Actually it is funny, often, her backhand push has the same exact spin and speed as her backhand topspin. hahaha. It is murder on someone who does not know how to play short pips. Because, even though she is using smooth rubber (I did tell her she might do well with short pips) everything that comes off her backhand feels like it is coming off of short pips.

But, anyway, back to the subject. The backspin video shows something worth understanding about serving and the snake serve video shows a pretty cool deception. The sidespin is the same as a regular pendulum and the motion does really look like a reverse.

UpSideDownCarl
10-11-2014, 03:58 AM
ROFLAO , I am sure a lot of people would get crazy against those kind of junk balls

I still feel heavy backspin might have the solution only if she is ready to change. I know that playing against a chopper taught me the value of timing and legs and touch and I always feel very confident when I do a few loops of a quality heavy pushes off a short backspin serve. thats why I said what I said from personal experience.

You might be right. I think there is a catch 22 to that solution though. She can't handle the heavy backspin because the technique is wrong. She can't change the technique because it is a habit. Trying to loop the heavy underspin generally results in her doing the wrong technique and the ball not going in, which, for what ever reason, does not make the technique improve, but instead hightens the problems of the flawed technique as she tries harder and harder and gets worse and worse.

So I think she would have to actually change the technique first before working on something like looping heavy underspin could be effective at helping her get the good technique into muscle memory. Nobody her level can give her heavy underspin in the first place. Perhaps she is USATT Rating 1000-1100.

Besides, a more immediate issue is, her crazy shoulder movement which causes her follow through to be so big that she is not ready for anything coming back when she serves because she has not quite recovered from the followthrough while ball is already coming back, which causes her to give away a lot of free points. Her flat out missing her serve causes her to give away 3-4 points per game when she plays someone close to her level.

Fixing the serve, which may be easier, would have a more immediate impact on her level of play regardless of whether the problem with all her strokes is a parallel problem.

Now if she fixes the forehand, it is true, she may get the concept of fixing her serves. But if she fixes her serves, it may help her understand the reason why she needs to fix her forehand as well. And fixing the serve would automatically bring her into contention on 4-9 points in ever game that she was previously giving away free because of her serve technique: In 4-9 points in every game, she does not even get to use her forehand before she has given the point away. :)

Ideally she fixes both. But it might be easier to fix the serve since, on the serve, you are feeding the ball to yourself. It is much harder to change an ingrained habit when the random element of someone else hitting the ball away from you is added to your trying to change something you are doing wrong and replace it with something you need to do differently for it to work better. On the forehand or backhand, the ball coming to you, even when someone is really good at feeding you, or you are hitting with a robot, it is still harder to change the habit you have than it would be with a serve where you are really, fully in control of everything that leads up to the contact of the racket with the ball.

ttmonster
10-11-2014, 03:15 PM
I had a woman in my club who was on the heavier side and had similar problems. Her husband was a good player ( around 2000 ) and could chop viciously with short pips. I remember he had taught her wife to serve very bask forehand serve from the middle of the table without any pivot and she had very effective variations by sometimes serving underspin annd sometimes no spin . I can't find a video to illustrate , its almost like standing semi-chest on, almost like a tom a hawk forehand serve without frills, meaning not crouching like matsudaira :) and not so much spin, but double bounce or half long just bouncing on the edge . Infact the no spins, even if they were long were effective on people who looped without reading the spin . Worth a try ? Kind of like the first serve here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhlwXyGkss8
the no spin variation is just by hitting higher on the paddle

UpSideDownCarl
10-11-2014, 04:13 PM
I had a woman in my club who was on the heavier side and had similar problems. Her husband was a good player ( around 2000 ) and could chop viciously with short pips. I remember he had taught her wife to serve very bask forehand serve from the middle of the table without any pivot and she had very effective variations by sometimes serving underspin annd sometimes no spin . I can't find a video to illustrate , its almost like standing semi-chest on, almost like a tom a hawk forehand serve without frills, meaning not crouching like matsudaira :) and not so much spin, but double bounce or half long just bouncing on the edge . Infact the no spins, even if they were long were effective on people who looped without reading the spin . Worth a try ?

Been there, done that. You can't teach the brain to function when it won't. She is still in the mode of wanting to have serves that have vicious spin and outright win the point. The comedy is, as a result and as a result of how hard she tries, her serves don't have much spin. Close to dead balls.

I actually showed her how, I could play a bunch of people her level and use only deadball serves short and continually get an easy third ball to kill. Then I showed her how I could do that to people my level, and, even if the third ball, at my level, does not always end the point outright, the third ball gives me something I can work with every time because it is hard to do anything that is very aggressive with a short dead ball, at a certain level there needs to be deception as well. But short dead mixed in well is very effective.

But, I hand her over to you. You seem interested. I just know, that video with the broom handle could potentially help her fix what is wrong with her technique on the serve. If she feels that, she might start trying to fix the forehand. But, I will let real coaches do the broader spectrum of fixing. I just saw that video and thought it would help her.

Interestingly, I notice, both the snake serve video and the backspin video have been made private. Too bad. They are both good videos for learning something.

ttmonster
10-11-2014, 06:38 PM
I was just trying to help , its always fun trying to think up ways to fix somebody's technique , sometimes it helps you understand the game better . But if its a lost cause, as you said its better left to the coaches. Its that much harder to coach an adult newbie than a kid .

Been there, done that. You can't teach the brain to function when it won't. She is still in the mode of wanting to have serves that have vicious spin and outright win the point. The comedy is, as a result and as a result of how hard she tries, her serves don't have much spin. Close to dead balls.

I actually showed her how, I could play a bunch of people her level and use only deadball serves short and continually get an easy third ball to kill. Then I showed her how I could do that to people my level, and, even if the third ball, at my level, does not always end the point outright, the third ball gives me something I can work with every time because it is hard to do anything that is very aggressive with a short dead ball, at a certain level there needs to be deception as well. But short dead mixed in well is very effective.

But, I hand her over to you. You seem interested. I just know, that video with the broom handle could potentially help her fix what is wrong with her technique on the serve. If she feels that, she might start trying to fix the forehand. But, I will let real coaches do the broader spectrum of fixing. I just saw that video and thought it would help her.

Interestingly, I notice, both the snake serve video and the backspin video have been made private. Too bad. They are both good videos for learning something.

UpSideDownCarl
10-12-2014, 03:55 AM
I was just trying to help , its always fun trying to think up ways to fix somebody's technique , sometimes it helps you understand the game better . But if its a lost cause, as you said its better left to the coaches. Its that much harder to coach an adult newbie than a kid .

Yeah, your comments had good ideas. And you are right, it is always fun to try and figure out what will help someone. I don't know that she is a lost cause but her mindset in serving definitely gets in her way. She tries way to hard. She also doesn't seem to get how using the serve to set yourself up is much more effective than trying to win outright with the serve. I have explained to her that, no matter how good your serves are, you will play people who can return all of them without too much trouble and then you have to be able to handle what comes back. But, I guess it is also okay for her to want heavy serves.

Anyway, I do really like that broomstick handle idea. It is creative.

ttmonster
10-12-2014, 03:20 PM
Yes, I think more or less everybody who starts playing competitive table tennis even at the amateur level as an adult goes through this phase of trying to win it outright with the serve. But the mindset change has to be self induced and its difficult to achieve. The broomstick idea is definitely great , and its unfortunate that the video has been made private.


Yeah, your comments had good ideas. And you are right, it is always fun to try and figure out what will help someone. I don't know that she is a lost cause but her mindset in serving definitely gets in her way. She tries way to hard. She also doesn't seem to get how using the serve to set yourself up is much more effective than trying to win outright with the serve. I have explained to her that, no matter how good your serves are, you will play people who can return all of them without too much trouble and then you have to be able to handle what comes back. But, I guess it is also okay for her to want heavy serves.

Anyway, I do really like that broomstick handle idea. It is creative.

Brett Clarke
11-13-2014, 01:08 AM
The snake serve is back online
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o06btFlP48E

UpSideDownCarl
11-13-2014, 05:10 AM
The snake serve is back online
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o06btFlP48E

Sweet. Thanks. Very funny and great video.

Michal_Z
11-13-2014, 08:37 AM
The snake serve is back online
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o06btFlP48E


Those serves are nasty. I also like the video on how to serve backspin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECGfgXg668M

I actually just sent this to a friend who I have been trying to get to stop moving her elbow forward when she serves. I have held her arm in place, but I think she will get it with the visual that the Japanese Ninja Backspin Service Assistant provides, and the restriction of the arm movement that it ensures.

Too bad this video became private :(
Brett can you relive this one too?

Brett Clarke
11-14-2014, 05:01 PM
Too bad this video became private :(
Brett can you relive this one too?
Ok, give me a couple of days

UpSideDownCarl
11-14-2014, 07:06 PM
Ok, give me a couple of days

They are great videos and you have a good sense of humor about it all. I like that.

Brett Clarke
11-21-2014, 01:14 PM
Too bad this video became private :(
Brett can you relive this one too?


http://youtu.be/V553uldm29w

There you go...sorry about the delay

Brett Clarke
03-13-2015, 01:10 PM
Here's a backhand topspin tutorial for you guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgvxkRaSZQk

Der_Echte
03-13-2015, 05:39 PM
Dan, you ought to strongly consider adding Brett Clarke as Verified Pro, he is pro coach.

strangeloop
03-14-2015, 04:25 PM
Dan, you ought to strongly consider adding Brett Clarke as Verified Pro, he is pro coach.

+1 and +2 from my side. :) I am a subscriber of TT Edge and the whole team are doing a great job IMO.

Brett Clarke
03-14-2015, 05:55 PM
+1 and +2 from my side. :) I am a subscriber of TT Edge and the whole team are doing a great job IMO.

Thanks for the nice comments guys! Cheers, Brett

ttEDGE - William
03-15-2015, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the kind words strangeloop. ttEDGE has really kicked along since Brett joined last year. I've never seen anyone present table tennis concepts like he is able to. I think you'd all agree :-)

UpSideDownCarl
03-17-2015, 08:36 PM
Brett is not only giving great information, he makes it fun and pretty funny, and totally easy to understanding. That is a hard combination to beat. I could see some people thinking he is way on the silly side. But it seems to me he is able to do that and give a deeper level of information than I have seen from other instructional videos of this kind. Top Notch in my opinion.

notarius.publicus
03-18-2015, 05:45 PM
That is what I call a Snake Serve.

Brett Clarke
03-19-2015, 04:55 PM
Brett is not only giving great information, he makes it fun and pretty funny, and totally easy to understanding. That is a hard combination to beat. I could see some people thinking he is way on the silly side. But it seems to me he is able to do that and give a deeper level of information than I have seen from other instructional videos of this kind. Top Notch in my opinion.

Thanks UpSideDownCarl, I try to make it fun and I know I pushed the silly side of things pretty hard. I think there is room for a little comedy in the sport although I understand it isn't everyone's thing. I appreciate your comment.

Cheers, Brett

UpSideDownCarl
03-19-2015, 06:55 PM
Especially in learning hard concepts like how relaxed you have to be to get that whipping action, the silly side is very useful as far as I am concerned. My favorite example of that is LL Beary. What good form he has on his forehand. [emoji2] hahaha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brett Clarke
04-06-2015, 12:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os7C24HsqlQ

Guys, here's a more technical backhand topspin tutorial

UpSideDownCarl
04-07-2015, 02:50 PM
Brett, I love your imitation of common mistakes. They are so funny, but so accurate. :) This is another good video.

NextLevel
04-07-2015, 05:40 PM
Brett, I love your imitation of common mistakes. They are so funny, but so accurate. :) This is another good video.Oh, the best part of it is the quality of the ball he gets while making the common mistake look entirely ridiculous. It's like he couldn't mistime the ball even if they tortured him while making him to use a toothpick as a bat.

Brett Clarke
04-09-2015, 03:28 PM
Oh, the best part of it is the quality of the ball he gets while making the common mistake look entirely ridiculous. It's like he couldn't mistime the ball even if they tortured him while making him to use a toothpick as a bat.

Thanks Guys, I get some mixed feedback about doing the common mistakes. Most seem to think it helps though others say it's confusing. I'd appreciate any feedback you have here too! My sample size is still pretty small on the topic

Cheers, Brett

hopper
04-10-2015, 10:11 AM
The common mistakes are great added value.
Knowing what to do is 1, but knowing what to avoid is Super :)

Old School
04-10-2015, 11:29 AM
I like the common mistakes tips, keep them in.

ttmonster
04-10-2015, 08:57 PM
The common mistakes is a great idea and so is showing the correct technique again after the common mistakes to ensure people remember the correct technique. Please keep up the good work Brett !

Brett Clarke
04-11-2015, 04:41 PM
Okay, the common mistakes stay. Thanks for all your feedback!

NextLevel
04-11-2015, 04:51 PM
Wow... It was that serious? The negative feedback must have been from a trusted source.

UpSideDownCarl
04-11-2015, 05:09 PM
Yeah. I agree that showing the common mistakes is good. Perhaps when someone sees themselves in one of them it is hard at first but it is worth seeing. Someone who is serious about wanting to improve will use the visual info to help correct technical flaws. The visuals are good information to help people improve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

strangeloop
04-12-2015, 04:51 PM
It's very good for learners to see the common mistakes. But even in that your contact and timing is really good.. wish I could match that to start with.

Brett Clarke
04-12-2015, 06:11 PM
It's very good for learners to see the common mistakes. But even in that your contact and timing is really good.. wish I could match that to start with.

Okay, how about this for a theory. If one was to just practice every common mistake, they would improve the overall stability of their stroke?

I know in my heart I shouldn't push the "Post Quick Reply" button, but I can't resist.

UpSideDownCarl
04-12-2015, 07:20 PM
Okay, how about this for a theory. If one was to just practice every common mistake, they would improve the overall stability of their stroke?

I know in my heart I shouldn't push the "Post Quick Reply" button, but I can't resist.

Hahaha. I like it. I wish I could get that good just by practicing the wrong way to do the strokes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Brett Clarke
04-13-2015, 11:52 AM
Guys, here's a video to learn backspin and no spin contact points.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfmc9YjYfSY

hopper
04-13-2015, 03:21 PM
Brett, to react on your theory:
Once read an article on training diversity, which proclaimed a mix of both correct and deliberate practice of "wrong" or at least other movements in order to teach the motoric muscle memory in both ways. This would improve the time it takes to learn the correct movement. To a certain extent I follow this principle, when I do robot training. I find this the perfect way to experiment with certain elements like backswing, forward swing, wrist movement, bat angle etc. I change one of these elements gradually during a drill, to find out what the impact is on the quality of the shot.

Some article here to explain the basics:
http://www.blogs.uni-mainz.de/fb02-sport/files/2014/05/tws_dtfussball.pdf

And another scientific one for the hardcore trainers
http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FErich_Mueller%2Fpublication%2F5511472_The_effects_of_differential_and_variable_training_on_the_quality_parameters_of_a_handball_throw%2Flinks%2F0912f5122959938634000000.pdf&ei=GNIrVYHyGsupogSU-4HgDA&usg=AFQjCNHAG2W9sQP_eDlvOnrWRGr9wYdBow&bvm=bv.90491159,d.cGU

Kudoos for the person who translates above article to table tennis specific drills....:D


So in conclusion: YES.....If one was to practice ALSO every common mistake in a varied way, they would improve the overall stability of their stroke !
But somehow most people find this hard to belief.

Brett Clarke
04-13-2015, 04:41 PM
Brett, to react on your theory:
Once read an article on training diversity, which proclaimed a mix of both correct and deliberate practice of "wrong" or at least other movements in order to teach the motoric muscle memory in both ways. This would improve the time it takes to learn the correct movement. To a certain extent I follow this principle, when I do robot training. I find this the perfect way to experiment with certain elements like backswing, forward swing, wrist movement, bat angle etc. I change one of these elements gradually during a drill, to find out what the impact is on the quality of the shot.

Some article here to explain the basics:
http://www.blogs.uni-mainz.de/fb02-sport/files/2014/05/tws_dtfussball.pdf

And another scientific one for the hardcore trainers
http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FErich_Mueller%2Fpublication%2F5511472_The_effects_of_differential_and_variable_training_on_the_quality_parameters_of_a_handball_throw%2Flinks%2F0912f5122959938634000000.pdf&ei=GNIrVYHyGsupogSU-4HgDA&usg=AFQjCNHAG2W9sQP_eDlvOnrWRGr9wYdBow&bvm=bv.90491159,d.cGU

Kudoos for the person who translates above article to table tennis specific drills....:D


So in conclusion: YES.....If one was to practice ALSO every common mistake in a varied way, they would improve the overall stability of their stroke !
But somehow most people find this hard to belief.

Thanks for the post hopper. Some heavy reading there!

I've used this type of training with various players that probably thought I had lost my mind. I've had players deliberately hitting the ball off the end of the table and then into the net as I believed these experiences would help them for various reasons. Warning...you need a lot of trust to try this stuff on students.

The book "Inner Skiing" by Tim Gallwey has a good learning example and I have tried to adapt the concept to table tennis in my own way. It's funny because I was chatting about this this morning with someone before reading your post.

Robots are interesting right, as you can try stuff you would never try with a training partner as bots don't get angry. I feel I've learned a lot about the learning process from messing with robots too. I plan to make a few videos about using a robot productively.

Kokain
04-15-2015, 10:33 AM
I've also been thinking about getting a cheap robot as I feel you can learn so much more by simply installing it on your average dining table. Get 200 training balls and start practicing anything you desire from serve returns, to smashes, to aiming at small targets. Best of all you can practice any time, any day you want for FREE! No need to call your friend or visit the TT hall at weird hours. Plus, think about how wonderful would be to warm up before a tournament and just go in there like a boss. What's your opinion on this guy? Good suggestion?

Brett Clarke
04-15-2015, 02:21 PM
I've also been thinking about getting a cheap robot as I feel you can learn so much more by simply installing it on your average dining table. Get 200 training balls and start practicing anything you desire from serve returns, to smashes, to aiming at small targets. Best of all you can practice any time, any day you want for FREE! No need to call your friend or visit the TT hall at weird hours. Plus, think about how wonderful would be to warm up before a tournament and just go in there like a boss. What's your opinion on this guy? Good suggestion?

Robots have lots of advantages and disadvantages. I think using them for serve return is a great idea, providing you understand how the serve would be hit by an actual opponent. Above all, if you will enjoy hitting some balls on your dining room table, how can you lose? Especially if you then go to tournaments like a boss!

Kokain
04-15-2015, 06:48 PM
I'm taking my words back, I've just spend some time watching robots on youtube and most of them are pure crap. Also at 2000$ you can buy a friend to play with lol. Worst of all the cheap triple digits robots can only do backspin topspin.....that's it.

qvoliszz
04-17-2015, 12:58 PM
Nice tutorial videos!

xoxocool
04-17-2015, 02:33 PM
Great service!!

Brett Clarke
04-17-2015, 06:16 PM
Thanks for the comments guy...I really appreciate the feedback. I will post what I think is a fairly interesting video on the weekend.

Brett Clarke
04-18-2015, 11:45 AM
Watch ttEDGE member Ben's forehand counter-hit improvement after a few hours of training.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWe_wNcOvLM

Brett Clarke
04-26-2015, 02:49 PM
Here's a tutorial by William Henzell. It's fairly advanced and makes you think about placement a lot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpr9s_8ISpA

Brett Clarke
05-28-2015, 10:25 AM
Here's a new serving video that may help you to get more spin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlHXgM1UTs

UpSideDownCarl
05-31-2015, 06:02 AM
Here's a new serving video that may help you to get more spin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlHXgM1UTs

This video is really good. That play with getting the whipping action from the wrist as part of that small movement from the forearm is really good to see. Also, the demonstrations of bad timing for backswing in comparison to good timing to get the wrist whip instead of having the racket waiting before starting, is really good to see.

Brett Clarke
05-31-2015, 05:24 PM
This video is really good. That play with getting the whipping action from the wrist as part of that small movement from the FH is really good to see. Also, the demonstrations of bad timing for backswing in comparison to good timing to get the wrist whip instead of having the racket waiting before starting, is really good to see.

Thanks UpSideDownCarl,

I've found that a large percentage of learning adults make the mistake of starting the swing way too early, so hopefully this video will help.

Cheers, Brett

NextLevel
05-31-2015, 06:09 PM
Yes, I still do especially on my pendulum serves, even though I should know better.

TTFrenzy
05-31-2015, 06:53 PM
Thanks UpSideDownCarl,

I've found that a large percentage of learning adults make the mistake of starting the swing way too early, so hopefully this video will help.

Cheers, Brett

https://youtu.be/IeuRbOlkGS8?t=33s

This is a video of me serving quite some years ago. Watching it now, I suppose I must throw the ball better (make it land closer to my belly perhaps?) and I didnt let the ball to my palm but in the middle are of my fingers and palm.

I have corrected this through the years and I have realized that after I throw the ball, the serve+getting to ready position should be one fluent motion and I found that if I synchronize my legs with the path of the ball (lifting when the ball is up and then getting down at moment of contact) makes it much easier for me to turn for the next shot)

I noticed that most pro players, shift their weight from back leg to front leg. The weight is on the back leg on the starting position of the serve before the toss, and at the moment of contact they fall either on the front or both legs getting a firm ready position with open and bent legs

What do you think brett, it would be nice to make a video about the "serve+getting ready" issue

karibaci
06-01-2015, 11:37 PM
All we need is to invite him to join our site in here ;-)
He would be a great income ;)

aha, aj ini Slovaci su tu, tak to sa tesim!

Pozdravujem domov :D

Brett Clarke
08-10-2015, 11:15 AM
One thing I really like about tt robots is they don't get annoyed when you miss. Here is a live lesson on how to learn to topspin off backspin using a robot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22F2hRS2ZiA

KM1976
08-11-2015, 10:19 AM
Hi Brett,

A very informative and innovative lesson from you, as always. I really like the way you challenge conventional thinking by using some really simple facts and then incorporate everything into the final results.
However, how should I implement this lesson if I do not have a robot? :) Also, what should I focus on? Since it is very easy to get demotivated if I am not able to make the ball cross the net each time I try to loop it.

Thank you.

Brett Clarke
08-12-2015, 12:09 PM
If you don't have a robot, you will need someone to feed you multiball for whatever stroke you want to adapt for a certain spin or situation. Remember that you need good technique before this exercise is relevant and you need to be patient and allow yourself time to adjust over a few minutes. If you get upset when you miss a ball, try to think of this as an experiment rather than a failure every time you miss. Just blame me or whatever when it doesn't work quickly.

There is a lot more to this theory and I'll work on some more content to bring it to light.

Cheers, Brett

Brett Clarke
09-09-2015, 11:16 AM
One of the best tt tutorials I've ever seen by William Henzell


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ6tmLUkLg4

NextLevel
09-09-2015, 12:36 PM
Happy that I can finally reference this video to Non-TT Edge members who think that on Chinese players can play banana flicks!

Brett Clarke
09-09-2015, 01:29 PM
Happy that I can finally reference this video to Non-TT Edge members who think that on Chinese players can play banana flicks!

NextLevel, I watched this video again and thought it was time that everyone had a chance to see it for free. I think it's one of the best.

NextLevel
09-09-2015, 01:32 PM
NextLevel, I watched this video again and thought it was time that everyone had a chance to see it for free. I think it's one of the best.

IT's the one I return to the most often, that's for sure. That's probably true for all William's BH topspin videos, but I have plagiarized the point about the backhand loop giving you 4 returns for the price of one for a couple of years now.

Brett Clarke
04-26-2016, 11:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp_Q74XGjC8

darnner123
04-26-2016, 01:05 PM
I don't really know what happened to me but when I saw the snake serve a year ago I was like OMG IS HE A WIZARD
(I was young and didn't understand anything b4 hahahaha)
Now I'm like ohh wait its obvious and I think better players would be able to pick up on it instantly but its still so freaking COOL.

The part about skyping with snake cracked me up hahaha
Great Video!!!